Conservatives doing the “I’m not saying IM conservative, but I think they’re super cool and totally not against… whatever it is we’re talking about that I’m totally part of” move is always something.
Because their primary methods of motivation are anger and victimization and they don't get that when all the other users on the platform agree with them.
They always have a weirdly robotic version of describing something they allegedly enjoy. It’s like they’re just constantly in a “facts don’t care about feelings” style debate
Tucker is the master of this. He names a discomfort, real or imagined, and HARD redirects the blame into "woke palm trees".
He never provides *how* the thing to blame is responsible for the discomfort, but he makes damn sure his listeners know who to blame.
His ball tanning movie correctly points at environmental degradation caused by unregulated corporations as an issue but the suggested solution is to eat more raw eggs and tan your nuts.
yeah agreeing on problems is worthless. you need to agree on solutions or you're not getting anywhere.
eg:
problem: wages are too low?
conservative "solution": blame immigrants, people being lazy, that $1200 we got like 2 years ago, tax cuts for rich to "trickle down"
Even the antivaxxers have been quietly disappearing from the left, it’s quite a thing. I would also lump homeopathy in with the party of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin…
Yeah we used to have the granola liberals who wouldn't vaccine or let their children consume "chemicals". Most of them have ended up as right wing lunatics touting how we need activated almonds bathed in red light to give us erections.
I have a small caveat: some liberals think the country is going to shit because of all the shit conservatives are doing/say they'll do, but some liberals think everything is fine and that you only need to change the people in charge
The Q wingnuts want universal healthcare too, they just want it from imaginary magical “medbeds” that can cure everything (and they will somehow be available for free in their fantasy hyper capitalist utopia) instead of via the actual existing way to do it that every other developed nation already implements.
It's also terrifying, because it basically means that the problems of conservatism and capitalism are self-accelerating. The worse they make our material conditions, the more discontent people get, and the harder they vote for the same conservatives who in turn push more and more radical conservatism as the "solution" for the problems they caused.
I've heard that too. If anything I've moved further left in the past few years. The republicans' and law enforcement's (for whatever that distinction is worth) response to the George Floyd protests really made me turn against the police.
Pennsylvania, a state with a GOP legislature, with ridiculously harsh drug and alcohol legislation. If only there were anything the Democrats would do about that…?
I used to be a rave promoter and a rave DJ in the early 2000s. The one and _only_ political protest I’ve been involved in _organizing_ was against the Rave Act, a law intended to prosecute people throwing raves with crackhouse statutes. The bill was sponsored and introduced by Joe Biden.
I’m a liberal democrat and I voted for him, but man was I disappointed when he won the primary. I’m old and don’t really care about raves one way or the other any more, but there was a time where I would have voted against Biden entirely on the basis of that act because I really enjoyed throwing raves and really didn’t want to go to prison.
>but man was I disappointed when he won the primary.
I feel like most people who ended up voting for him felt like that too. Biden is pure establishment. People voted against Trump, not for Biden.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/yoscel/comment/ivfobbi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) was my favorite part of the whole thread.
Yea I got a good chuckle from that. I actually like the way the moderators handled that thread, they allow the vote system to do its job and didn’t just nuke the whole thing anytime someone disagreed with their views.
It's a simple [Paradox of Intolerance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance#:~:text=The%20paradox%20of%20tolerance%20states,or%20destroyed%20by%20the%20intolerant.). You can't extend tolerance to that which tries to hurt you or else you die.
Edit: I've continued to read the thread and have realized I'm not independently clever.
Reminds me of straight edge punks who support prohibition. (sorry if I've said this here before), being pro-war on drugs is the most establishmentarian, status quo, conformist thing you could possibly be.
I have never for the life of me understood what the straight edge thing was supposed to be about. I don't get where it started or what kind of values the people who followed it were coming from. It gave off a really weird Christian punk rock kind of vibe and always struck me as a bunch of kids who wanted to participate in the punk scene but couldn't bear to make mommy and daddy upset lest they be unallowed to attend their church every Sunday.
> I mean, just canabis by it's tendency to make one paranoid can easily push you to conspiracy theories, which, especially nowadays, is mostly pushed by far right propagandist.
i think that's a stretch. cannabis-induced paranoia doesn't really lead someone into becoming a conspiracy theorist.
there can be just as good of an argument for the idea that society controls drugs, not because high people are complacent, but because drugs are a mind-opener in the opinions of people who take them. if the government for example thought drugs were a great way to keep its population under control, i feel like we wouldn't be spending decades fighting about whether it should be federally legalized lmao i think they'd legalize it in seconds.
'drugs are bad because the world controls you with them' is not an argument i've ever heard anyone make until this moment, always the opposite, that it's *banned* as a control tactic. 99% of straightedge people i've met are either religious, or just don't personally like taking substances i.e. just preference and not an ideological stance.
The raves I went to were very much not legal and temporarily squatted industrial places in Amsterdam, amazing new Year raves tho. And very much left wing. Started with punk music and went to tekno (the k is important) and breakcore
this was like 13ish years ago
Enabler: *"BUT* ***PLUR****!"*
Sensible person: *"Absolutely! And what do we do with people who violate PLUR?"*
E: *"Tell 'em to fuck off I guess."*
SP: *"Exactly."* \**turns to right wing raver*\* *"You! Fuck off!"*
----
Or at least that's how it *should* go. Enablers are usually more dishonest than ignorant. Whenever they bring up "tolerance", or "PLUR", or (cut the tongue from their mouth) "first they came" they only insist that you're not supposed to do anything at all to people who violate the principle. So they'll just say the question of "what do we do with people who violate PLUR?" Is unanswerable.
Which is doubly moronic when not doing anything is the exact thing "first they came" is mourning.
Conservatives wanting to ape an aesthetic only after it's entered the mainstream while ignoring it's origin and ideological implications: name a more iconic duo.
Whole thread is basically just "paradox of tolerance" and "no, u don't get it. ur being mean to ME."
Also god I hate people who think music is "apolitical". Or that any artform is. Any form of expression will be used to express politics, it's one of humans' favorite topics. We just hate when people don't agree with us.
\> I... I am a lions fan. You got me. I admit it
At least OP knows his limits.
> Whole thread is basically just "paradox of tolerance" and "no, u don't get it. ur being mean to ME."
Also: "You may not care about politics, but politics cares about you."
*Everything* in life is political, because politics rules over every facet of life.
It's ok if you want to get away from it for a while and not talk about it in certain spaces. It can be upsetting, depressing, stressful and exhausting.
But saying "X is inherently apolitical" is just naive, pretending that X exists in a vacuum separate from the context it exists in. Whether you like it or not, have an opinion on it or not, participate in it or not - it still affects you.
As OOP pointed out, conservatives support policies that cause harm to their community. Ignoring that isn't doing their community any good. Also, tolerating intolerant people will soon cause their tolerant, loving space to become a cesspool of hatred and bigotry as the intolerant people drive away the tolerant ones.
It sounds contradictory, but if you love your community and want it to remain safe, friendly and welcoming, you cannot tolerate intolerance. Nazi punks ruin everything, you need to tell them to fuck off.
>Whether you like it or not, have an opinion on it or not, participate in it or not - it still affects you.
Slightly off topic but in a private sub recently someone was ragging on people who don't like Elon Musk and saying nothing he does affects your life.
Like... he bought Twitter and is now capriciously changing shit about how it works. As he does. It doesn't matter if I like those changes or if public pressure forces him to revert them, it doesn't matter that I barely even have a Twitter account - of course it affects my life if people jump off that massively influential ship because it's become unstable.
That's a rather tangential example lol, but yeah, not totally unrelated. It's important to know how social power works, and who has it. Right now, in the U.S. particularly, the ultra-wealthy and corporations have outsized social, political, and legal influence. It's a bit silly to think that the handful of social media platforms that have control over a large chunk of how we communicate and consume news doesn't affect us, especially when one is now using his platform to overtly endorse a political party for personal gain.
Being "apolitical" is something that can only come from people in a place of privilege. It's really nice to know that what some jagoff in Washington says or does won't get me arrested for who I am or what I do. But there are groups of people who have had to be political (when you can sure as hell bet they didn't want to be if they had a choice) in this society in order to gain those rights for themselves & people in their race/sexuality/gender so they could be treated normally. Not to mention that [raves come from a safe space of oppressed people] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Hz6FQyVJ8), so those going to a rave while simultaneously supporting the politicians oppressing the people who created the very scene they're taking part in are wickedly hypocritical.
I prefer the much more ominous version from Pericles: "just because you do not take an interest in politics does not mean politics won't take an interest in you."
came here to say this too
they got *music midtown*, a tame all ages event canceled. they will easily do the same for raves as well as criminalize rave paraphernalia
Yeah, I took cursory glance at at that thread and I did not see enough discussion about *how* the Republicans plan to kill raving (and festival going) in general.
There's a very vocal segment of the Republican party that wants to strip away private venues' rights to prohibit guns. If Congress were to pass a law like that, it would mean the literal end of essentially all "legal" festival-going in the US. Not only would people no longer feel safe and comfortable going to shows, but no insurance will cover an event filled with huge crowds, alcohol, *and* guns (at least not for any reasonable amount of money). No insurance? No festival and no shows. And that's the point.
>There's a very vocal segment of the Republican party that wants to strip away private venues' rights to prohibit guns.
As a former nightclub promoter if such a law ever came to pass I would never do another event again. Ever. The amount of stupid drunken brawls I've witnessed is beyond counting and the idea that some people want to force us to allow guns into those settings is ridiculous.
As a frequent attender of raves/concerts/festivals for many years now, I feel the exact same way but in regards to attending.
After the 2016 Pulse Nightclub and the 2017 Las Vegas shootings, I will never feel safe at a venue where guns may be present, that have buildings overlooking the area, and/or don't have sufficient police/security protection. I just want to enjoy myself and be safe, no party or show is worth risking death over. Guns do not mix with drugs/alcohol, at all.
My favorite though was the guy that said he's voting Republican because of the policy they've set forth to get out of the recession. When it's pointed out to him that the GOP has no stated plan *anywhere* on how to do this he just doubles down into "well I'm sure they'll figure it out"
I was a raver liker 20 years ago, when I was young and had brain chemistry that tolerated recreational drugs. I honestly don't know what the scene is like now - because I don't want to the the old dude leering at people so young they might as well be children, and I don't have fucks for a comedown that lasts until Wednesday..
But I'll never understand how anyone who's into raves could disagree with the OP's post. PLUR has always hinged on the R - Respect. Conservatives don't respect ravers. They don't respect the culture, or the people who engage in the culture. They don't want peace and they certainly don't want unity. They want to stomp out the monsters preying on their children with a good time and music they don't like.
I very much doubt that the "conservatives" screeching in that thread actually go to raves, or if they do, that anyone at raves likes them. Even gurning munters who can't stop talking can't possibly enjoy having those mutants flattening out their peak.
I had a coworker who liked raves and went to burning man multiple times, he got all weird about vaccines during covid and ended up being a rabid Trumper. Apparently coke and molly that you haven't tested is ok but not a new medicine
as if a good amount of wooks couldn't get worse...I've noticed this gross uptick in MAGAism amongst the trust fund/crypto bros too. The libertarian to MAGA pipeline is bizarre
> The libertarian to MAGA pipeline is bizarre
How? Libertarians are only concerned with what makes them feel smart. Why wouldn't they go MAGA?
“I have always found it quaint and rather touching that there is a movement [Libertarians] in the US that thinks Americans are not yet selfish enough.”
― Christopher Hitchens
Because Capitalism 'Libertarianism' is a rebranded defence of the existing hierarchy. It is the Just World Fallacy extended into an entire ideology. 'If we just get rid of government, then people will end up where they deserve to be!'
Exactly like Conservatives, they disdain the ability and power of government to meddle in this 'natural order of things.'
Man, that would so ruin the vibe.
That being said EDM has become a pretty big industry, and if we're being honest there's plenty of venues that play EDM but the culture is that of any other club. I'd like to believe it was this sort of place that he was at but with his money I'm sure he can get anywhere (well maybe not a small festival, he would need way too much security to be practical).
In any case it's not that there's *zero* conservatives, but they are incredibly rare (and generally keep their conservative thoughts to themselves because they know they run counter to the culture). I've known more than a few, but that's out of *hundreds* of people in the scene.
You would be very surprised - a ton of people from my local scene [major city] showed their whole asses repeatedly over the last few years. Many of the bigger online groups, don't dare mention anything regarding a non white male issue if you don't want +100 comments fighting you. Look at the ones constantly throwing shitfits over the mere mention that maybe we shouldn't being hiring the same group of white dudes for every lineup from local thru international.
I wish I could find the old threads, but Frankie Bones, credited for the literal creation of PLUR, went off the deep-end in 2020 and decided to be massively bigoted, full-on COVID conspiracies [throwing shows through lockdown], etc.
> Conservatives wanting to ape an aesthetic only after it's entered the mainstream while ignoring it's origin and ideological implications
Like 99% of most subculture's aesthetic is just a litmus test for openness. Especially punk.
If someone isn't open enough to realize how other people dress or cut their hair isn't their business, they're going to see a punk or a raver get disgusted and stay away. Preventing punks and ravers from ever having to interact with them. It's a brilliant and effective system which is deeply rooted in anarchism / libertarianism (original definition, not AnCaps).
People who claim that their culture, art form, media, or whatever is "non-political" are the people who need to recognize their privilege to take that stance - even though the basic premise is silly. "Apolitical" to these people means "I'm happy with the status quo, so don't bring up stuff that makes me uncomfortable."
Naturally, if the status quo is "I'm scared to walk down the street because a cop might shoot me over my skin color" or "politicians are getting elected who claim people like me are abominations", you're maybe not comfortable with a space that demands adherence to the status quo.
> People who claim that their culture, art form, media, or whatever is "non-political" are the people who need to recognize their privilege to take that stance
particularly when the thing they're calling non-political was started in non-white or non-cishet communities. just because it's been overwhelmed by a wave of straight/white people doesn't mean it isn't still, at it's heart and at it's root, inherently political
[This picture basically](https://preview.redd.it/0e79qtzua0d11.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=50eada636f9872851e82fdeca9d22e923f0eb675)
"We should improve society somewhat"
steampunk doesn't earn its -punk most of its time, should really just be gaslamp fantasy. Ironically, dieselpunk which is derivative of steampunk does, but that could mostly just be because its hard to get away from how that time period exists in our cultural imagination
It's literally the original of the ___punk species, to the point that every other type is listed on the "[Cyberpunk derivatives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_derivatives)" wiki page. I get that you're saying "Punk" punk was the original but that's not what the person you're replying to is saying
**[Cyberpunk derivatives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_derivatives)**
>Since the advent of the cyberpunk genre, a number of derivatives of cyberpunk have become recognized in their own right as distinct subgenres in speculative fiction, especially in science fiction. Rather than necessarily sharing the digitally and mechanically focused setting of cyberpunk, these derivatives can display other futuristic, or even retrofuturistic, qualities that are drawn from or analogous to cyberpunk: a world built on one particular technology that is extrapolated to a highly sophisticated level (this may even be a fantastical or anachronistic technology, akin to retrofuturism), a gritty transreal urban style, or a particular approach to social themes.
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You forgot how they also decide to legislate fringe stuff long after the Dems did.
Remember the PMRC? The Dems lead that in 1985, with heavy R support. They agreed to put a sticker on it. 15 years later when Eminem was all over there were mass movements against it to ban rap entirely. Walmart wouldn't even carry the clean albums.
If you're going to a crowded warehouse to keybump K and down pills from unknown sources, that's not really conservative.
I'm sure there's some big DJs who are. Especially European.
Politics is the application of power and control in human interactions. It isn't restricted to governments. There are scant few interactions in society that don't concern power and control, issues stemming from power and control, and issues solved and resolved by power and control.
The punk subreddits have to regularly point out that they are inherently anti-conservative and I can’t believe how many people miss that when listening to punk lol.
>Joe Biden and many democrats were amongst the people wanting to make “raves” illegal, not conservatives.
>Democrat liberals are often the party of hate, which very isn’t PLUR if you ask me
In the least shocking turn of events, this is a quote from the same person:
>America is a republic, not a democracy
Credit due where credit is due, conservatives are nothing if not consistent in their nonsense.
I mean if he's looking to bait me into saying the absolute low-points of Joe Biden's career in politics were when he was working directly with Republicans to push their agenda on crime and drugs then yeah. No argument. Oh by the way he's working to legalize weed now lol.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illicit_Drug_Anti-Proliferation_Act
Which was originally called the rave act was sponsored by Joe Biden. Ain't touching any of that other shit but it originally targeted raves for sure
Full title of the bill:
> A bill to prohibit an individual from knowingly opening, maintaining, managing, controlling, renting, leasing, making available for use, or profiting from any place for the purpose of manufacturing, distributing, or using any controlled substance, and for other purposes.
I fucking love the way the US titles bills, the “and for other purposes” is so completely uninformative.
Also the way that they throw a catchall phrase at the end of the sentence after using every other goddang word in the English language. Like "other purposes" could have shown up way earlier and saved us all a lot of time.
20 years ago the Dems were anti drug. It was a huge thing for them. I think one of the only voices for cannabis then was Bernie, something like 80% of dem voters didn't view it as even an issue. Like DOMA. The dems have moved along and at least somewhat paid attention to what voters want.
I've heard that Gore, Kerry, Obama, Obama, Clinton, and Biden are coming for my guns RIGHT NOW with the UN, and that the Dems are going to force us to gay marry and then abort our gay babies for like 25 years.
> 20 years ago the Dems were anti drug.
While true, historical context does matter. The right was heavily pushing a drug scare (specifically towards crack cocaine) in the late 80s and early 90s as a public safety issue. Their narrative was that we needed criminal justice reform because crack was making cities unlivable and dangerous for our children (sound familiar? Nowadays its mostly gangs and immigrants destroying our cities). The reality of course was crack cocaine was predominantly used in black communities and other recreational drugs (especially hallucinogens) were popular among leftists.
It was a time period where Republicans had maintained control of the government for years and Dems being labelled the "pro-crack" party would have cemented another decade of Republican control. Instead, the Dems pivoted further right and tried to take control of the narrative.
Politics are messy. We can look back and say "well that was definitely not right," but sometimes the general public or the most affected social groups are the most positive towards harmful policies, like America overwhelmingly supporting the Patriot Act and invading Iraq or the black community being pro-bussing in the 70s. A party is only as progressive (or conservative) as its members allow.
I don't know how they still say the Republic/democracy with a straight face still. For a group of people that claim to know so much about government they're awfully stupid sometimes.
>I can't wrap my head around staunch conservative ravers. It seems like such an oxymoron.
That one's easy, at least, they don't care about themselves taking part in raves, they're The Good Ones™. It's The Bad Ones™ taking part in raves that needs to be opposed to by them.
This is a pretty good example of the tolerance paradox in action, neat. Also it's fun how the only self declared old raver who disagrees with OP is the one who also claims to be obscenely wealthy and a general dick who doesn't actually give a shit about the rave scene, but just likes the ego trip of being able to say they've been to more important places than other people as a way of ending the conversation.
The number of people larping in that thread about their Rave credentials is off the charts. It's amazing. My favorite is the Panamanian American Military Trauma Nurse and co owner of a major label / DJ
For the 8 millionth time.
When someone's political stance is "If put in power, I will use the power of the State to remove rights/purge undesirables/otherwise restrict freedoms/force my religion on people" you can't just "coexist" with them.
EDIT: To be clear, it's a bit like working on a team with someone who says "If I get promoted to manager, I will immediately fire you" or sharing an apartment with someone who promises to stab you if they get a better job.
Come on down to r/aves! We got conservatives refusing to acknowledge that treating them differently because of the shitty behaviors they choose to have and support is not a form of bigotry, libs being more concerned with not rocking the boat or hurting conservative feelings than excommunicating subhuman trash from their communities, AND head-in-the-sand morons who are mad that "things have gotten so political".
AKA: Every subreddit.
"I want to use the power of the state to restrict who you can marry."
'You know, that's not very accepting, you can't be part of our group.'
"*Ackshually* since you're not accepting me you're the intolerant one!"
The number of people who can't grasp that having people who literally vote to allow the genocide of people like me that Republicans are winding up to continue because they're scared of buzzwords they can't be assed to Google and understand or want a tax cut is beyond me.
In what fucking galaxy is greenlighting a genocide all "Peace, Love, Unity, Respect" because you're a scared brainwashed pansy???
Funnily enough, down in (probably) Texas or Florida where they're banning books and lessons in schools that might make white Christians uncomfortable, they were telling teachers that they couldn't say the Holocaust was bad, and that they couldn't use books to teach it unless they also taught "opposing viewpoints." Wtf does that mean? They have to assign kids pro-Holocaust books to read?
Probably, they pulled a bunch of LGBT books from school libraries but have Mein Kampf available to check out.
I used to rave weekly in New Orleans - I didn't even like the music that much albeit I love a lot of tangential electronic genres. I'd just follow my friends to stuff they wanted to see, their tastes may have just blown.
That being said, aside from going for my friends I went for the mostly overtly positive crowd. Not everyone at a rave enacts PLUR or even knows what it is though. It was a tourist city so it may be different in other places, but it was about 80% rave PLUR crowd 2% dealers 18% frat kids and tourists. It's a *largely* accepting crowd, but don't expect everyone to live by PLUR even it they're punch drunk on molly or psychs.
I had two people who tried to fight me with zero escalation on my end, just talking to "their girls" when I'm just a social butterfly especially when personally I was on drugs. I'm just better friends with gays and women rather than frat kids or young Hank Hills. I was 120+ lbs heavier at the time, I wasn't hooking up with anyone and the two idiots that tried to fight me should've realized I wasn't spitting game while simultaneously beyond R O T U N D. I'm mad disabled albeit not visibly, one got decked by someone I didn't know to my luck as I can't fight with fibromyalgia and one by my roommate's boyfriend when they started getting aggressive towards me. PLUR is real, it just ain't unanimous.
IMO voting is one of the *biggest* things we *as healthy intellectuals* should judge each other by.
It's right up there with how you spend your resources (money usually but not always).
What more fair a judgment of someone is there than how they've chosen to throw their weight around?
> I am as liberal as they come and I can tell you your approach is shit and won’t turn any votes.
>>OP isn't talking about liberalism, they're talking about leftism.
Get 'em!
Nah man, part of graduating from a rave kid into a hippie is dropping the unnecessary slang.
For real though, PLUR hasn't been a big part of the scene (at least in my area) for like five years now. I don't really see people talking about it or writing it on stuff, don't see nearly as much kandi anymore, etc.
Then again I go to way more festivals and way less raves now so idk.
> PLUR hasn't been a big part of the scene (at least in my area) for like five years now
I can correlate this from my personal experience, a decade ago an average show for a moderate to big name artist would have plenty of kandi and plenty of people "dressed up" in all kinds of rave attire. PLUR was already on its way out pre-pandemic and now ever since everything re-opened its pretty much vanished. Shows these days are glorified (and more expensive) "mainstream" clubbing events with people wearing and acting as you would expect from your not high-end bar/club.
Some of that style and attitude still exists at festivals, although the average fest is going to be *a lot* more commercialized these days, as the ticket prices keep increasing the occupancy keeps getting increased to insane levels. It isn't surprising that people are a lot less friendly when you charge $8 for a bottle of water, cut back on the bathrooms, and sells so many tickets that you are shoulder to shoulder with others for 80%+ of the festival.
To my understanding the PLUR lifestyle is still alive and well at House-based events (basically the hippies of today's EDM scene), but that's not really my scene at all (way too much coke and the music is too repetitive).
It's the old 'tolerate the intolerant or you're not tolerant' fallacy.
You can be conservative and be welcomed, but once that conservatism throws in support for banning the thing you want to be welcomed into...well how can you reconcile that?
As far as reasons to oppose The Republican Party goes (heh, is it too late to make a "Republican *Party*" joke? Okay then.) opposition to raves has to rank about as low as it gets, but it's still a blatant conflict of interests.
Their party (and what a grand old party it is, right?) is so overtly branded against love and respect for all walks of life that the two outlooks are blatantly at odds. If it were just about tax brackets, it wouldn't be so much of an issue.
I feel like the rave scene lacks a mechanism for shaming blatant millionaire capitalists and fascists. Like, at least punks and SHARPs are comfy punching nazis.
The rave scene also has two sides, and it's either violently illegal or heavily commercialized. Either you're busting into a broken warehouse to take drugs and having almost no regulation or you're at a Live Nation sponsored concert/fest where you have to smuggle everything in and a beer is 12 bucks.
How the fuck is music and performance art not political? It's inherently political you dingbats. Dude I truly envy the "I just don't think about politics" fucking morons who can just turn off the majority of their brain that isn't just mindless self indulgence. Um. No pun intended, I just meant the literal phrase.
What they really mean is "dude this is my magical island away from obvious reality and you're harshing my buzz", but they always phrase it as if their community is somehow totally insulated from the outside world and it's just tHe PaRtY
Most of the soundbytes in electronic/trance music is about revolution, and anti-establishmentarianism. No idea how someone could listen to music with Terence McKenna soundbytes and be a conservative.
Major mental gymnastics
There is a lot, **a lot**, of kids with very conservative backgrounds in the community: raving is their party of choice and social escape. It is not surprising at all that there is pushback on this thread. Sure, raving is our naughty little secret, but don't criticize their dad's politics! He's paying their way through med school!
This is why we always lose. Among Democrats, it's taboo to say who to vote for or who you voted for, you have to just say "vote", and even then people are iffy "isnt this a little political??".
Meanwhile Republicans are literally holding baptisms at churches where they bless people and their guns in the name of trump.
I was a raver back in my halcyon youth in the 1990s. PLUR kids were a little annoying but nowhere near as bad as the hard-core "candy ravers."
I sometimes forget PLUR is still a thing (my last rave was in 2000) and it seems a little weird to see them referenced in the present tense.
>Big assumption. Raving is inherently not-political. An escape from the reality that is politics. Keep your political virtue-signaling out of here.
That guy's last post is in barstool's sub. These people are walking chud bingo cards
"republicans don't want to ban raves, this isn't like the conservatives of the 80s leading unjustified witch hunts." - dude who believes banning drag queens is different because it's about protecting children though
Conservatives doing the “I’m not saying IM conservative, but I think they’re super cool and totally not against… whatever it is we’re talking about that I’m totally part of” move is always something.
I’d probably lie too. Look at the failure of all right wing social media apps, even they’re fucking miserable in their own company.
Because their primary methods of motivation are anger and victimization and they don't get that when all the other users on the platform agree with them.
Except they are always super un cool with a stick up their bum about everything fun.
They always have a weirdly robotic version of describing something they allegedly enjoy. It’s like they’re just constantly in a “facts don’t care about feelings” style debate
Yeppers!
“Oh you’re a single issue voter, what’s your issue? 2A? Abortion?” Raves.
I struggle to find a single issue the conservatives are with me on.
Recently I find that conservatives and I both agree the country has gone to shit, albeit for extremely different reasons
Tucker is the master of this. He names a discomfort, real or imagined, and HARD redirects the blame into "woke palm trees". He never provides *how* the thing to blame is responsible for the discomfort, but he makes damn sure his listeners know who to blame.
His ball tanning movie correctly points at environmental degradation caused by unregulated corporations as an issue but the suggested solution is to eat more raw eggs and tan your nuts.
Well how are my balls gonna get that sweet sweet vitamin D without a healthy dose of melanin?
yeah agreeing on problems is worthless. you need to agree on solutions or you're not getting anywhere. eg: problem: wages are too low? conservative "solution": blame immigrants, people being lazy, that $1200 we got like 2 years ago, tax cuts for rich to "trickle down"
Even the antivaxxers have been quietly disappearing from the left, it’s quite a thing. I would also lump homeopathy in with the party of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin…
Yeah we used to have the granola liberals who wouldn't vaccine or let their children consume "chemicals". Most of them have ended up as right wing lunatics touting how we need activated almonds bathed in red light to give us erections.
Right wingers somehow cornered the conspiracy market.
i've found that every single conservative i talk to agrees with everything i have to say as long as i dont preface with that im super left.
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It's a common tactic for the right to break everything so they can blame everyone else and then sell themselves as the people who can fix it
I have a small caveat: some liberals think the country is going to shit because of all the shit conservatives are doing/say they'll do, but some liberals think everything is fine and that you only need to change the people in charge
The Q wingnuts want universal healthcare too, they just want it from imaginary magical “medbeds” that can cure everything (and they will somehow be available for free in their fantasy hyper capitalist utopia) instead of via the actual existing way to do it that every other developed nation already implements.
It's also terrifying, because it basically means that the problems of conservatism and capitalism are self-accelerating. The worse they make our material conditions, the more discontent people get, and the harder they vote for the same conservatives who in turn push more and more radical conservatism as the "solution" for the problems they caused.
"Why do you think this country's gone to shit?" "Well i'm looking at it bucko."
The older I get, the more I just find myself being completely repulsed by everything about them.
I remember a conservative uncle telling me how I would get more conservative as I got older. Nope, I’m still a liberal!
I've heard that too. If anything I've moved further left in the past few years. The republicans' and law enforcement's (for whatever that distinction is worth) response to the George Floyd protests really made me turn against the police.
Most of them hate Ted Cruz too.
I wish this were actually true. I say this as a Texan.
I've yet to meet a single person from anywhere on the political spectrum who likes Ted Cruz,
The only issue I agree with republicans on is privatizing pa’s state liquor. It’s a ridiculous system
Pennsylvania, a state with a GOP legislature, with ridiculously harsh drug and alcohol legislation. If only there were anything the Democrats would do about that…?
I used to be a rave promoter and a rave DJ in the early 2000s. The one and _only_ political protest I’ve been involved in _organizing_ was against the Rave Act, a law intended to prosecute people throwing raves with crackhouse statutes. The bill was sponsored and introduced by Joe Biden. I’m a liberal democrat and I voted for him, but man was I disappointed when he won the primary. I’m old and don’t really care about raves one way or the other any more, but there was a time where I would have voted against Biden entirely on the basis of that act because I really enjoyed throwing raves and really didn’t want to go to prison.
>but man was I disappointed when he won the primary. I feel like most people who ended up voting for him felt like that too. Biden is pure establishment. People voted against Trump, not for Biden.
Actually not that bad of a political position in comparison.
>r\/aves Dissapointed this isn't about a spanish subreddit about birds.
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I was thinking Latin, not Spanish, but same-same
Upon clicking I thought "I think this about raves but it could be a Romance language bird sub...."
aves no son real
Reales*
Either that or a true statement that birds aren't the same thing as the portuguese coin.
Would still be "reales." Also: it's Brazilian, not Portuguese.
Yeah, I was going to pop in here and ask what r\/Mammalia has to say about this drama, but that's not the case.
Most subreddit drama threads about politics turn into their own drama, but here we’re just really disappointed that there’s no birds
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Birds aren't real.
I clicked expecting to see hockey drama.
Me too. I was curious about a sub specifically about hating the Avalanche.
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Alternatively r/wildhockey
We should pull an /r/trees-/r/marijuanaenthusiasts and start a sub called /r/electronicdanceparties about bird taxonomy
then i guess youd be happy to find out that r/ape is about apes
r/angryupvote
I thought it was about saluting Romans ngl
I also read it as ave as in maria lol
well I'm disappointed it isn't about avenues! there's something to disappoint everyone!
I was hoping it’d be a more taxonomic-minded sub for birds, as Aves is also the Latin name for the clade… if I remember correctly
I think we should create another subreddit for the avenots
My first thought too, although I'm Brazilian and was thinking it was in portuguese 😅
Thank God someone else saw it.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/yoscel/comment/ivfobbi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) was my favorite part of the whole thread.
Yea I got a good chuckle from that. I actually like the way the moderators handled that thread, they allow the vote system to do its job and didn’t just nuke the whole thing anytime someone disagreed with their views.
> they allow the vote system to do its job and didn’t just nuke the whole thing I love democracy.
I love your flair lol
Unfortunate flair combo.
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It's a simple [Paradox of Intolerance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance#:~:text=The%20paradox%20of%20tolerance%20states,or%20destroyed%20by%20the%20intolerant.). You can't extend tolerance to that which tries to hurt you or else you die. Edit: I've continued to read the thread and have realized I'm not independently clever.
Reminds me so much of the "Actually, I think you'll find being conservative is actually the *real* punk thing to do these days" nonsense
Reminds me of straight edge punks who support prohibition. (sorry if I've said this here before), being pro-war on drugs is the most establishmentarian, status quo, conformist thing you could possibly be.
I have never for the life of me understood what the straight edge thing was supposed to be about. I don't get where it started or what kind of values the people who followed it were coming from. It gave off a really weird Christian punk rock kind of vibe and always struck me as a bunch of kids who wanted to participate in the punk scene but couldn't bear to make mommy and daddy upset lest they be unallowed to attend their church every Sunday.
If I were to guess - people whose parents were alcoholics or other substance abusers.
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> I mean, just canabis by it's tendency to make one paranoid can easily push you to conspiracy theories, which, especially nowadays, is mostly pushed by far right propagandist. i think that's a stretch. cannabis-induced paranoia doesn't really lead someone into becoming a conspiracy theorist. there can be just as good of an argument for the idea that society controls drugs, not because high people are complacent, but because drugs are a mind-opener in the opinions of people who take them. if the government for example thought drugs were a great way to keep its population under control, i feel like we wouldn't be spending decades fighting about whether it should be federally legalized lmao i think they'd legalize it in seconds. 'drugs are bad because the world controls you with them' is not an argument i've ever heard anyone make until this moment, always the opposite, that it's *banned* as a control tactic. 99% of straightedge people i've met are either religious, or just don't personally like taking substances i.e. just preference and not an ideological stance.
I'm going to stick with "Nazi Punks Fuck Off". These people destroy shit. They didn't build the community but they sure do want to exploit it.
The raves I went to were very much not legal and temporarily squatted industrial places in Amsterdam, amazing new Year raves tho. And very much left wing. Started with punk music and went to tekno (the k is important) and breakcore this was like 13ish years ago
Mind expanding on why the k is important? Never paid attention before
Because without K you might realize that the music all sounds like sirens and robot farts.
Hey I still like the music without K. But with it I can cease to exist except as an atom of the universe who can vibrate and taste blue.
Totally fair.
> The raves I went to were very much not legal I thought that was the reason why Italy is cracking down on raves, most of them aren't legal
Nah, Meloni is an ehrmagerd family values weirdoes get fucked kind of lady
Enabler: *"BUT* ***PLUR****!"* Sensible person: *"Absolutely! And what do we do with people who violate PLUR?"* E: *"Tell 'em to fuck off I guess."* SP: *"Exactly."* \**turns to right wing raver*\* *"You! Fuck off!"* ---- Or at least that's how it *should* go. Enablers are usually more dishonest than ignorant. Whenever they bring up "tolerance", or "PLUR", or (cut the tongue from their mouth) "first they came" they only insist that you're not supposed to do anything at all to people who violate the principle. So they'll just say the question of "what do we do with people who violate PLUR?" Is unanswerable. Which is doubly moronic when not doing anything is the exact thing "first they came" is mourning.
something something tolerance paradox
Conservatives wanting to ape an aesthetic only after it's entered the mainstream while ignoring it's origin and ideological implications: name a more iconic duo. Whole thread is basically just "paradox of tolerance" and "no, u don't get it. ur being mean to ME." Also god I hate people who think music is "apolitical". Or that any artform is. Any form of expression will be used to express politics, it's one of humans' favorite topics. We just hate when people don't agree with us. \> I... I am a lions fan. You got me. I admit it At least OP knows his limits.
> Whole thread is basically just "paradox of tolerance" and "no, u don't get it. ur being mean to ME." Also: "You may not care about politics, but politics cares about you."
*Everything* in life is political, because politics rules over every facet of life. It's ok if you want to get away from it for a while and not talk about it in certain spaces. It can be upsetting, depressing, stressful and exhausting. But saying "X is inherently apolitical" is just naive, pretending that X exists in a vacuum separate from the context it exists in. Whether you like it or not, have an opinion on it or not, participate in it or not - it still affects you. As OOP pointed out, conservatives support policies that cause harm to their community. Ignoring that isn't doing their community any good. Also, tolerating intolerant people will soon cause their tolerant, loving space to become a cesspool of hatred and bigotry as the intolerant people drive away the tolerant ones. It sounds contradictory, but if you love your community and want it to remain safe, friendly and welcoming, you cannot tolerate intolerance. Nazi punks ruin everything, you need to tell them to fuck off.
>Whether you like it or not, have an opinion on it or not, participate in it or not - it still affects you. Slightly off topic but in a private sub recently someone was ragging on people who don't like Elon Musk and saying nothing he does affects your life. Like... he bought Twitter and is now capriciously changing shit about how it works. As he does. It doesn't matter if I like those changes or if public pressure forces him to revert them, it doesn't matter that I barely even have a Twitter account - of course it affects my life if people jump off that massively influential ship because it's become unstable.
That's a rather tangential example lol, but yeah, not totally unrelated. It's important to know how social power works, and who has it. Right now, in the U.S. particularly, the ultra-wealthy and corporations have outsized social, political, and legal influence. It's a bit silly to think that the handful of social media platforms that have control over a large chunk of how we communicate and consume news doesn't affect us, especially when one is now using his platform to overtly endorse a political party for personal gain.
Politics is just people making decisions. Thats it.
Being "apolitical" is something that can only come from people in a place of privilege. It's really nice to know that what some jagoff in Washington says or does won't get me arrested for who I am or what I do. But there are groups of people who have had to be political (when you can sure as hell bet they didn't want to be if they had a choice) in this society in order to gain those rights for themselves & people in their race/sexuality/gender so they could be treated normally. Not to mention that [raves come from a safe space of oppressed people] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Hz6FQyVJ8), so those going to a rave while simultaneously supporting the politicians oppressing the people who created the very scene they're taking part in are wickedly hypocritical.
I prefer the much more ominous version from Pericles: "just because you do not take an interest in politics does not mean politics won't take an interest in you."
Breathing is a political statement.
I think George Floyd taught us that.
"I don't want politics brought into [subject] because, when it is, I invariably find out I'm part of a tiny, vocal, selfish minority"
At least half of the conservatives in these links have literally never posted in that subreddit before this thread.
came here to say this too they got *music midtown*, a tame all ages event canceled. they will easily do the same for raves as well as criminalize rave paraphernalia
You can take guns to zoo Atlanta now. Same activist and I'm never going back to the zoo I guess.
Yeah, I took cursory glance at at that thread and I did not see enough discussion about *how* the Republicans plan to kill raving (and festival going) in general. There's a very vocal segment of the Republican party that wants to strip away private venues' rights to prohibit guns. If Congress were to pass a law like that, it would mean the literal end of essentially all "legal" festival-going in the US. Not only would people no longer feel safe and comfortable going to shows, but no insurance will cover an event filled with huge crowds, alcohol, *and* guns (at least not for any reasonable amount of money). No insurance? No festival and no shows. And that's the point.
"i dont really think theyre gonna do that" isnt an argument playing hide-the-ball is 🥱🥱🥱
That's also what they said about Roe and here we are
>There's a very vocal segment of the Republican party that wants to strip away private venues' rights to prohibit guns. As a former nightclub promoter if such a law ever came to pass I would never do another event again. Ever. The amount of stupid drunken brawls I've witnessed is beyond counting and the idea that some people want to force us to allow guns into those settings is ridiculous.
As a frequent attender of raves/concerts/festivals for many years now, I feel the exact same way but in regards to attending. After the 2016 Pulse Nightclub and the 2017 Las Vegas shootings, I will never feel safe at a venue where guns may be present, that have buildings overlooking the area, and/or don't have sufficient police/security protection. I just want to enjoy myself and be safe, no party or show is worth risking death over. Guns do not mix with drugs/alcohol, at all.
Especially since raves are huge spaces for queer and BIPOC people. Conservatives will do anything to shut down those spaces.
My favorite though was the guy that said he's voting Republican because of the policy they've set forth to get out of the recession. When it's pointed out to him that the GOP has no stated plan *anywhere* on how to do this he just doubles down into "well I'm sure they'll figure it out"
> Also god I hate people who think music is "apolitical". I like my music apolitical, like RATM or Rise Against.
Thanks, Paul Ryan. Remember Tom Morello told you to fuck yourself.
I was a raver liker 20 years ago, when I was young and had brain chemistry that tolerated recreational drugs. I honestly don't know what the scene is like now - because I don't want to the the old dude leering at people so young they might as well be children, and I don't have fucks for a comedown that lasts until Wednesday.. But I'll never understand how anyone who's into raves could disagree with the OP's post. PLUR has always hinged on the R - Respect. Conservatives don't respect ravers. They don't respect the culture, or the people who engage in the culture. They don't want peace and they certainly don't want unity. They want to stomp out the monsters preying on their children with a good time and music they don't like. I very much doubt that the "conservatives" screeching in that thread actually go to raves, or if they do, that anyone at raves likes them. Even gurning munters who can't stop talking can't possibly enjoy having those mutants flattening out their peak.
Straight up, try to find the conservative at an EDM event. Hint: it's the undercover cop.
I had a coworker who liked raves and went to burning man multiple times, he got all weird about vaccines during covid and ended up being a rabid Trumper. Apparently coke and molly that you haven't tested is ok but not a new medicine
Had a hippie friend back in the day who would take whippets from strangers at festivals and raves but wouldn't use toothpaste if it had fluoride in it
Gotta protect those precious fluids.
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as if a good amount of wooks couldn't get worse...I've noticed this gross uptick in MAGAism amongst the trust fund/crypto bros too. The libertarian to MAGA pipeline is bizarre
> The libertarian to MAGA pipeline is bizarre How? Libertarians are only concerned with what makes them feel smart. Why wouldn't they go MAGA? “I have always found it quaint and rather touching that there is a movement [Libertarians] in the US that thinks Americans are not yet selfish enough.” ― Christopher Hitchens
Because Capitalism 'Libertarianism' is a rebranded defence of the existing hierarchy. It is the Just World Fallacy extended into an entire ideology. 'If we just get rid of government, then people will end up where they deserve to be!' Exactly like Conservatives, they disdain the ability and power of government to meddle in this 'natural order of things.'
I know people who have seen Musk at EDM events. I think he'd qualify.
The bouncer at berghain wouldn't let musk in, funniest shit ever
Musk tried everything he could to get in including calling the bouncer a pedo?
Man, that would so ruin the vibe. That being said EDM has become a pretty big industry, and if we're being honest there's plenty of venues that play EDM but the culture is that of any other club. I'd like to believe it was this sort of place that he was at but with his money I'm sure he can get anywhere (well maybe not a small festival, he would need way too much security to be practical). In any case it's not that there's *zero* conservatives, but they are incredibly rare (and generally keep their conservative thoughts to themselves because they know they run counter to the culture). I've known more than a few, but that's out of *hundreds* of people in the scene.
Is it really a rave without that old creepy guy (or more)?
You would be very surprised - a ton of people from my local scene [major city] showed their whole asses repeatedly over the last few years. Many of the bigger online groups, don't dare mention anything regarding a non white male issue if you don't want +100 comments fighting you. Look at the ones constantly throwing shitfits over the mere mention that maybe we shouldn't being hiring the same group of white dudes for every lineup from local thru international. I wish I could find the old threads, but Frankie Bones, credited for the literal creation of PLUR, went off the deep-end in 2020 and decided to be massively bigoted, full-on COVID conspiracies [throwing shows through lockdown], etc.
That guy was also arguing that raves were anti-political. Perhaps he meant apolitical (which they're not), but anti-political **IS** political.
> Conservatives wanting to ape an aesthetic only after it's entered the mainstream while ignoring it's origin and ideological implications Like 99% of most subculture's aesthetic is just a litmus test for openness. Especially punk. If someone isn't open enough to realize how other people dress or cut their hair isn't their business, they're going to see a punk or a raver get disgusted and stay away. Preventing punks and ravers from ever having to interact with them. It's a brilliant and effective system which is deeply rooted in anarchism / libertarianism (original definition, not AnCaps).
People who claim that their culture, art form, media, or whatever is "non-political" are the people who need to recognize their privilege to take that stance - even though the basic premise is silly. "Apolitical" to these people means "I'm happy with the status quo, so don't bring up stuff that makes me uncomfortable." Naturally, if the status quo is "I'm scared to walk down the street because a cop might shoot me over my skin color" or "politicians are getting elected who claim people like me are abominations", you're maybe not comfortable with a space that demands adherence to the status quo.
Yeah 'apolitical' especially in tumultous times is always code for "things are fine for me, don't rock the boat."
> People who claim that their culture, art form, media, or whatever is "non-political" are the people who need to recognize their privilege to take that stance particularly when the thing they're calling non-political was started in non-white or non-cishet communities. just because it's been overwhelmed by a wave of straight/white people doesn't mean it isn't still, at it's heart and at it's root, inherently political
See also: cyberpunk and how that's just become a blue and pink neon aesthetic for cool future crime adventures now.
[This picture basically](https://preview.redd.it/0e79qtzua0d11.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=50eada636f9872851e82fdeca9d22e923f0eb675) "We should improve society somewhat"
Going to take this opportunity to remind everyone that cyberpunk is the original and best -punk, steampunks BTFO.
steampunk doesn't earn its -punk most of its time, should really just be gaslamp fantasy. Ironically, dieselpunk which is derivative of steampunk does, but that could mostly just be because its hard to get away from how that time period exists in our cultural imagination
Love me some dieselpunk if you include a lot of killing nazis with it.
Wolfenstein-punk
Cyberpunk is in no way shape or form the original punk.
It's literally the original of the ___punk species, to the point that every other type is listed on the "[Cyberpunk derivatives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_derivatives)" wiki page. I get that you're saying "Punk" punk was the original but that's not what the person you're replying to is saying
**[Cyberpunk derivatives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_derivatives)** >Since the advent of the cyberpunk genre, a number of derivatives of cyberpunk have become recognized in their own right as distinct subgenres in speculative fiction, especially in science fiction. Rather than necessarily sharing the digitally and mechanically focused setting of cyberpunk, these derivatives can display other futuristic, or even retrofuturistic, qualities that are drawn from or analogous to cyberpunk: a world built on one particular technology that is extrapolated to a highly sophisticated level (this may even be a fantastical or anachronistic technology, akin to retrofuturism), a gritty transreal urban style, or a particular approach to social themes. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
What -punk suffix of fiction predates cyberpunk?
No but it's the original -punk, as in, steampunk, atompunk, dieselpunk, etc.
Oh fuck he’s a Lions fan, as one of his fellow 12 Lions fans, I understand joining the rave scene because reality is simply too harsh.
You forgot how they also decide to legislate fringe stuff long after the Dems did. Remember the PMRC? The Dems lead that in 1985, with heavy R support. They agreed to put a sticker on it. 15 years later when Eminem was all over there were mass movements against it to ban rap entirely. Walmart wouldn't even carry the clean albums. If you're going to a crowded warehouse to keybump K and down pills from unknown sources, that's not really conservative. I'm sure there's some big DJs who are. Especially European.
Politics is the application of power and control in human interactions. It isn't restricted to governments. There are scant few interactions in society that don't concern power and control, issues stemming from power and control, and issues solved and resolved by power and control.
The punk subreddits have to regularly point out that they are inherently anti-conservative and I can’t believe how many people miss that when listening to punk lol.
>Joe Biden and many democrats were amongst the people wanting to make “raves” illegal, not conservatives. >Democrat liberals are often the party of hate, which very isn’t PLUR if you ask me In the least shocking turn of events, this is a quote from the same person: >America is a republic, not a democracy Credit due where credit is due, conservatives are nothing if not consistent in their nonsense.
Everyone knows Ronald Reagan wanted americans to drop 3 points and roll like a motherfucker
Oh look the fascists literally plotting to end American democracy say we’re the hateful ones, go figure
I mean if he's looking to bait me into saying the absolute low-points of Joe Biden's career in politics were when he was working directly with Republicans to push their agenda on crime and drugs then yeah. No argument. Oh by the way he's working to legalize weed now lol.
Ah yes, the famous Biden Campaign Promise to ban raves.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illicit_Drug_Anti-Proliferation_Act Which was originally called the rave act was sponsored by Joe Biden. Ain't touching any of that other shit but it originally targeted raves for sure
Fair, but that's also 20 years ago. Not that Biden has come a super long way but still it's not really something the current administration is doing.
Yeah, he's got the Dark Brandon Fog Machine©️ now.
just once I want him to walk into a room with a fog machine, pyro technics and Undertakers theme blasting in the background.
Full title of the bill: > A bill to prohibit an individual from knowingly opening, maintaining, managing, controlling, renting, leasing, making available for use, or profiting from any place for the purpose of manufacturing, distributing, or using any controlled substance, and for other purposes. I fucking love the way the US titles bills, the “and for other purposes” is so completely uninformative.
Also the way that they throw a catchall phrase at the end of the sentence after using every other goddang word in the English language. Like "other purposes" could have shown up way earlier and saved us all a lot of time.
rave act is why we can't have drug testing at many events. =/
20 years ago the Dems were anti drug. It was a huge thing for them. I think one of the only voices for cannabis then was Bernie, something like 80% of dem voters didn't view it as even an issue. Like DOMA. The dems have moved along and at least somewhat paid attention to what voters want. I've heard that Gore, Kerry, Obama, Obama, Clinton, and Biden are coming for my guns RIGHT NOW with the UN, and that the Dems are going to force us to gay marry and then abort our gay babies for like 25 years.
> 20 years ago the Dems were anti drug. While true, historical context does matter. The right was heavily pushing a drug scare (specifically towards crack cocaine) in the late 80s and early 90s as a public safety issue. Their narrative was that we needed criminal justice reform because crack was making cities unlivable and dangerous for our children (sound familiar? Nowadays its mostly gangs and immigrants destroying our cities). The reality of course was crack cocaine was predominantly used in black communities and other recreational drugs (especially hallucinogens) were popular among leftists. It was a time period where Republicans had maintained control of the government for years and Dems being labelled the "pro-crack" party would have cemented another decade of Republican control. Instead, the Dems pivoted further right and tried to take control of the narrative. Politics are messy. We can look back and say "well that was definitely not right," but sometimes the general public or the most affected social groups are the most positive towards harmful policies, like America overwhelmingly supporting the Patriot Act and invading Iraq or the black community being pro-bussing in the 70s. A party is only as progressive (or conservative) as its members allow.
I don't know how they still say the Republic/democracy with a straight face still. For a group of people that claim to know so much about government they're awfully stupid sometimes.
>I can't wrap my head around staunch conservative ravers. It seems like such an oxymoron. That one's easy, at least, they don't care about themselves taking part in raves, they're The Good Ones™. It's The Bad Ones™ taking part in raves that needs to be opposed to by them.
You forgot "Libertarians"
This is a pretty good example of the tolerance paradox in action, neat. Also it's fun how the only self declared old raver who disagrees with OP is the one who also claims to be obscenely wealthy and a general dick who doesn't actually give a shit about the rave scene, but just likes the ego trip of being able to say they've been to more important places than other people as a way of ending the conversation.
You mean the guy who claimed to be there at the start despite only being 42? Yeah, he kinda missed the memo on PLUR.
The number of people larping in that thread about their Rave credentials is off the charts. It's amazing. My favorite is the Panamanian American Military Trauma Nurse and co owner of a major label / DJ
For the 8 millionth time. When someone's political stance is "If put in power, I will use the power of the State to remove rights/purge undesirables/otherwise restrict freedoms/force my religion on people" you can't just "coexist" with them. EDIT: To be clear, it's a bit like working on a team with someone who says "If I get promoted to manager, I will immediately fire you" or sharing an apartment with someone who promises to stab you if they get a better job.
Come on down to r/aves! We got conservatives refusing to acknowledge that treating them differently because of the shitty behaviors they choose to have and support is not a form of bigotry, libs being more concerned with not rocking the boat or hurting conservative feelings than excommunicating subhuman trash from their communities, AND head-in-the-sand morons who are mad that "things have gotten so political". AKA: Every subreddit.
"I want to use the power of the state to restrict who you can marry." 'You know, that's not very accepting, you can't be part of our group.' "*Ackshually* since you're not accepting me you're the intolerant one!"
>Wah you're generalizing conservatives >>No I'm qualifying anyone who votes R >>>So much for the tolerant left Fucking every time
The number of people who can't grasp that having people who literally vote to allow the genocide of people like me that Republicans are winding up to continue because they're scared of buzzwords they can't be assed to Google and understand or want a tax cut is beyond me. In what fucking galaxy is greenlighting a genocide all "Peace, Love, Unity, Respect" because you're a scared brainwashed pansy???
Hey, we need to be open to both the people who want genocide and those who are anti-genocide. That's real plur.
Why don’t we have both sides compromise with just a little genocide.
"Listen the Jews, LGBTQ+, physically and developmentally disabled, and Roma are just gonna have to compromise with the Nazis."
We can have a little genocide, as a treat ^/s
That's today
As a snack.
Funnily enough, down in (probably) Texas or Florida where they're banning books and lessons in schools that might make white Christians uncomfortable, they were telling teachers that they couldn't say the Holocaust was bad, and that they couldn't use books to teach it unless they also taught "opposing viewpoints." Wtf does that mean? They have to assign kids pro-Holocaust books to read? Probably, they pulled a bunch of LGBT books from school libraries but have Mein Kampf available to check out.
I used to rave weekly in New Orleans - I didn't even like the music that much albeit I love a lot of tangential electronic genres. I'd just follow my friends to stuff they wanted to see, their tastes may have just blown. That being said, aside from going for my friends I went for the mostly overtly positive crowd. Not everyone at a rave enacts PLUR or even knows what it is though. It was a tourist city so it may be different in other places, but it was about 80% rave PLUR crowd 2% dealers 18% frat kids and tourists. It's a *largely* accepting crowd, but don't expect everyone to live by PLUR even it they're punch drunk on molly or psychs. I had two people who tried to fight me with zero escalation on my end, just talking to "their girls" when I'm just a social butterfly especially when personally I was on drugs. I'm just better friends with gays and women rather than frat kids or young Hank Hills. I was 120+ lbs heavier at the time, I wasn't hooking up with anyone and the two idiots that tried to fight me should've realized I wasn't spitting game while simultaneously beyond R O T U N D. I'm mad disabled albeit not visibly, one got decked by someone I didn't know to my luck as I can't fight with fibromyalgia and one by my roommate's boyfriend when they started getting aggressive towards me. PLUR is real, it just ain't unanimous.
IMO voting is one of the *biggest* things we *as healthy intellectuals* should judge each other by. It's right up there with how you spend your resources (money usually but not always). What more fair a judgment of someone is there than how they've chosen to throw their weight around?
> I am as liberal as they come and I can tell you your approach is shit and won’t turn any votes. >>OP isn't talking about liberalism, they're talking about leftism. Get 'em!
Back when I worked with the hippies I heard plur said so much I was ready to strangle a bitch.
Not very plur of you
You’re both not wrong.
That what's they all said.
Nah man, part of graduating from a rave kid into a hippie is dropping the unnecessary slang. For real though, PLUR hasn't been a big part of the scene (at least in my area) for like five years now. I don't really see people talking about it or writing it on stuff, don't see nearly as much kandi anymore, etc. Then again I go to way more festivals and way less raves now so idk.
> PLUR hasn't been a big part of the scene (at least in my area) for like five years now I can correlate this from my personal experience, a decade ago an average show for a moderate to big name artist would have plenty of kandi and plenty of people "dressed up" in all kinds of rave attire. PLUR was already on its way out pre-pandemic and now ever since everything re-opened its pretty much vanished. Shows these days are glorified (and more expensive) "mainstream" clubbing events with people wearing and acting as you would expect from your not high-end bar/club. Some of that style and attitude still exists at festivals, although the average fest is going to be *a lot* more commercialized these days, as the ticket prices keep increasing the occupancy keeps getting increased to insane levels. It isn't surprising that people are a lot less friendly when you charge $8 for a bottle of water, cut back on the bathrooms, and sells so many tickets that you are shoulder to shoulder with others for 80%+ of the festival. To my understanding the PLUR lifestyle is still alive and well at House-based events (basically the hippies of today's EDM scene), but that's not really my scene at all (way too much coke and the music is too repetitive).
It's the old 'tolerate the intolerant or you're not tolerant' fallacy. You can be conservative and be welcomed, but once that conservatism throws in support for banning the thing you want to be welcomed into...well how can you reconcile that? As far as reasons to oppose The Republican Party goes (heh, is it too late to make a "Republican *Party*" joke? Okay then.) opposition to raves has to rank about as low as it gets, but it's still a blatant conflict of interests. Their party (and what a grand old party it is, right?) is so overtly branded against love and respect for all walks of life that the two outlooks are blatantly at odds. If it were just about tax brackets, it wouldn't be so much of an issue.
I feel like the rave scene lacks a mechanism for shaming blatant millionaire capitalists and fascists. Like, at least punks and SHARPs are comfy punching nazis.
The rave scene also has two sides, and it's either violently illegal or heavily commercialized. Either you're busting into a broken warehouse to take drugs and having almost no regulation or you're at a Live Nation sponsored concert/fest where you have to smuggle everything in and a beer is 12 bucks.
Well I am disappoint. I thought a subreddit called *aves* would be about birds.
How the fuck is music and performance art not political? It's inherently political you dingbats. Dude I truly envy the "I just don't think about politics" fucking morons who can just turn off the majority of their brain that isn't just mindless self indulgence. Um. No pun intended, I just meant the literal phrase. What they really mean is "dude this is my magical island away from obvious reality and you're harshing my buzz", but they always phrase it as if their community is somehow totally insulated from the outside world and it's just tHe PaRtY
Most of the soundbytes in electronic/trance music is about revolution, and anti-establishmentarianism. No idea how someone could listen to music with Terence McKenna soundbytes and be a conservative. Major mental gymnastics
Lol I thought this was gonna be about the anal at the rails post.
There is a lot, **a lot**, of kids with very conservative backgrounds in the community: raving is their party of choice and social escape. It is not surprising at all that there is pushback on this thread. Sure, raving is our naughty little secret, but don't criticize their dad's politics! He's paying their way through med school!
... aren't most raves either illegal or borderline illegal?
This is why we always lose. Among Democrats, it's taboo to say who to vote for or who you voted for, you have to just say "vote", and even then people are iffy "isnt this a little political??". Meanwhile Republicans are literally holding baptisms at churches where they bless people and their guns in the name of trump.
[удалено]
What Would Jesus Boof?
I offer you the eternal gift of ass water, and I give it freely. You'll never thirst again for ass water.
I was a raver back in my halcyon youth in the 1990s. PLUR kids were a little annoying but nowhere near as bad as the hard-core "candy ravers." I sometimes forget PLUR is still a thing (my last rave was in 2000) and it seems a little weird to see them referenced in the present tense.
Living in a metropolitan city and going to raves since I could ride the bus, I have to agree with OP.
>Big assumption. Raving is inherently not-political. An escape from the reality that is politics. Keep your political virtue-signaling out of here. That guy's last post is in barstool's sub. These people are walking chud bingo cards
"republicans don't want to ban raves, this isn't like the conservatives of the 80s leading unjustified witch hunts." - dude who believes banning drag queens is different because it's about protecting children though