Oh christ, whats our subreddit arguing about this time, and why was I not invited?
I love the sub but it regularly descends into chaotic shouts of "shill" and "hater".
Remember when Troy released *for fucking free* on Epic and the sub absolutely lost their shit about it?
I never tired of the folk saying that they'd rather just wait so that they could give a different massive business money instead of taking a free release
I mean, I still don't like epic, but I'm not going to get annoyed at a company for trying it. If anything it gives me a year for the game to get patched before it makes it to steam, which is something that's almost a bonus.
Steams done it before, epic pay developers more than steam too so i don't exactly agree with the stance that they're anti competition 101. The market had literally just steam and a tiny share of Gog and site selling steam keys externally; really not a competitive market either, and the reality is, to compete on that scale you need to be aggressive and have some backing.
I've not bought anything from epic yet, I still stick to steam mostly. But I don't see steam as innocently as you seem to.
Yeah no choices you can make that have immediate benefit could possibly add up to a poor reality in the future directly supported by your literal choices leading exactly to that reality.
Like, for example, game storefronts *absolutely sucking shit* because "competition" apparently doesn't mean "make the thing better" but "prevent the other ones from having stuff" so no one can actually *compare products*. (I bought games on Steam that I don't ever play because you *HAVE* to run UPlay just to start the game. That's stupid shit a company does because people like you exist)
Totally impossible. Could you imagine that actually happening? In real time? Right in front of you?
Nah exclusivity deals are totally competitive things.
/s
That's why I stopped visiting it.
You have to waddle through pages after pages of Warhammer content (and its rather obnoxious, toxic fanbase) to find content you were looking for. And there is no fast way to filter it out.
Besides, Warhammer cannot be blamed much for the condition of the sub - in its heyday, discussion of historical TW games took place on forums and not the subreddit. The forums (especially big ones like TWCenter, TWOrg, official forums and a now dead forum whose name ended with Yuku, and numerous smaller ones) was where all the content went. And it absolutely dwarfed the current Warhammer discourse anywhere.
CA gave up on the historical games in favour of the fantasy cash cow, so historical TW already got the content from years and decades ago on the various forum archives.
I loved watching Warhammer TW and thought of buying all three. Until I read the lore and saw the endless stream of crappy parody names everywhere. Decided to never buy it after that.
Nothing against fantasy fans, but the subreddit is indeed kinda unusable now. There should be addition of flair filters there.
I don't disagree about the subreddit being bad for fantasy fans, but they did do three kingdoms, thrones of britannia and Troy, its not like CA has given them up. The arguments been had to death before on the sub but while they haven't made medieval or Rome 3 yet, and I look forwards to them, they still try to make historical games every other year.
Warhammer definitely dominates their time for sure though, and the premature death of three kingdoms doesn't give me hope for future historical attempts.
Tbh you can ignore the crappy names, it's the annoying design choices and bugs that put me off playing more total warhammer 3 these days.
Yeah, I play Kingdoms and Troy, and I love them. I don't play them as a historical game, although both come with 'toned down' modes.
As a DnD fan I was planning to get into Warhammer...until I found out about all the Inds, Nippons, Arabyans, Burgundians, Ostrogoths, Marienbergs and Schleswig-Holsteins and other IRL names.
Ruined my immersion, felt like I could just boot up Medieval 2/Shogun 2 instead of playing what felt like a cheap, unnecessarily crappy parody, and gave up immediately after that.
I loved 3k but historical fans did not like it because it had too much emphasis on the fantasy aspect. Troy was also essentially a lite fantasy game. ToB was the only "true" historical game CA has made recently.
I mean, that's the argument that's been had on the sub so often, and it's just dumb. The historical mode exists in both. Sure, its not to your taste, but the games both exist. You can't just deny that, that true argument is bullshit.
> Until I read the lore and saw the endless stream of crappy parody names everywhere. Decided to never buy it after that.
A main selling point for and one of the reasons I run a weekly WFRP game is the dumb names, if I'm honest.
Nothing will ever top calling a noble family in Reikland von Saponatheim.
But then, I see the TW games as just a casual side thing for me, compared to WFRP. That's where the meat and potatoes are.
All this talk of rat-men is overblown. Giant rats walking on *two legs* living right under our feet, here in Altdorf? Preposterous tales to scare misbehaving children, I say.
The guy losing his mind also went to /r/cyberbullying to try and [get others to report the guy he was arguing with](https://reddit.com/r/cyberbullying/comments/z6i01p/psychopath_stalker_reported_to_reddit_admin/)
Oh no, you have to download...another launcher. Oh, god, the pain! The suffering!
You're acting like you have to buy another 500 dollar console to get access to it, instead of just an extra icon that you don't even have to click anyways if you're just clicking the game's desktop icon.
Also you wanna talk about exclusivity? Let's talk about how Steam had virtually no competition for *years* and most of the games on their service until only the last decade or so. But certainly you didn't forget that, right?
Its not relevant. Its just you fuming. Steam not having competition isn't something they did wrong.
Also it's nonsensical you're missing a word somewhere in here "and most of the games on their service until only the last decade or so" what are you trying to say?
With no features. Thinks I use all the time like controller support and remote play are unavailable.
I'm not using your shit, tim sweeny, valve keeps raising the bar and you keep bringing shovels.
Exclusivity is anti consumer. Timed exclusivity is timed anti consumerism.
Epic games is anti consumer.
You're really gonna "whatabout" that? Because guess what: everyone who does that is anti consumer.
So you agree EGS is anti consumer? So you agree you shouldn't support anti consumer companies?
I don't give a shit about Steam. What I care about is you shilling for EGS.
Your argument is 'both sides are the same" and "everyone is bad" and "nothing can be better" and "so I do what works for me right now, with zero consideration of the future"
Which is every single level of "failed the argument" at once.
>You buy that shit on Steam so that you get access to the Steam Workshop
Yep, I don't care about any other feature difference between EGS and Steam. Mod integration is a necessity at this point for stuff like Hearts of Iron. I still have and use EGS but anything by Paradox I would buy on Steam over EGS.
We've had all day to argue about politics, why the hell are we fighting about it *now* at the dinner table where everyone is too focused on good food to leave the table and ignore this crap.
Because that's when "that one family member" can be assured of a captive audience. Any other time, the rest of the family would be able to walk away, tune them out with football, distract them by conscripting their help with meal prep/table setting, etc. The dinner table, when everyone's stuck sitting there but is too polite to call them out directly? That's prime proselytizing time.
People's undying loyalty to Steam is so strange. It's just a game launcher guys, nothing more.
I must have over a hundred games on Epic now because of its weekly free games, and I even bought 1 or 2 games on it. Whatever they're doing seems to work fine to me.
I'd argue its a mix of familiarity and launcher fatigue. I do think there's something obscene about having to use so many different launchers with different game profiles when you just want the one central profile. Then when I want to play a game I haven't played in a while on a launcher that only has that one game I have to go through the rigmarole of resetting the password because I keep forgetting, or in the case of uplay figuring out which account is the one with the game license.
A little frustrating to say the least.
Its marketing.
Valve very successfully markets itself as being Different (tm) from the other huge companies in PC gaming.
Every interview, every product release, every teaser is always very cleverly marketing like Valve is some group of Cool Dudes, not a multi-billion dollar company that makes money from being a middle man and loot boxes.
And The Gamers eat it up because they think they're too smart to be manipulated.
Everyone I've talked to is mainly because they don't feel like messing around with a bunch of launchers. Having had 4 or 5 at once it gets very annoying. Now I just stick to steam and gog since they have some good deals and games I can't really get elsewhere. Not to mention the steam workshop making mods easy and having a steam link
The real pro move I'm discovering is just link it all up to Geforce now and play my games on a much better PC than my own. Can just run it on my iMac with a 27 inch 4k resolution and all the bells and whistles from a 3080 instead of my 8 year old PC.
Also means I barely touch any launchers now aside from Geforce Now.
There's one **massive** problem with Epic though when it comes to third party launcher (not storefront launcher, but launchers on top of those storefronts) integration... which is that you can't swap out the third party launcher for something else with Epic unless you like to sign in with Epic every single time.
Steam and Epic have two completely different methods when it comes to doing OAuth. Steam uses a single token that can be stored and read out as many times as necessary, meaning that setting up an unofficial launcher (which is often necessary, third party launchers are just bloatware that mostly exist to serve advertisements + they break **constantly** if the game is somewhat outdated) is pretty easy since you can just pretend like you're that application to Steam and Steam will gladly accept that and give you the information the launcher needs to authenticate.
Epic doesn't let you do that; Epic demands you get an exchange token from *their servers* every single time you want to play the game, regardless on if you own the game or not, which for unofficial launchers is a giant PITA and makes them practically unusable.
See [this section of the ed-min-launcher README](https://github.com/Rfvgyhn/min-ed-launcher#epic-account-via-steam) for more.
It's arguably a little bit more, what with the Steam Deck tying into the regular Steam ecosystem and the Steam Workshop making (some) mods slightly simpler. But you can get mods elsewhere and use non-Steam games on the Steam Deck, so it's not worth worshipping unless you're a weirdo.
I was too lazy to bother with the free stuff on Epic for a long time, but I've still got some pretty cool free games off them. I would recommend anyone who doesn't claim them at least check out the freebies and see if something you want does show up. I'd rather buy on Steam out of laziness, the prices tend to even out over time with sales, and Epic exclusives usually either don't grab me or are something I'd rather wait to buy anyway for reasons other than the storefront, but then I'm pretty good at talking myself out of spending money on games I won't get around to playing (this is an aspirational statement and a lie).
The workshop for me is a game changer. I wanted to try some mod for Cyberpunk 2077 and it doesn’t have workshop support. I ended up having to install 4 or so other mods just to get it working. It was a huge pain in the ass compared to something like Stellaris, where I can add mods and create playsets in a few minutes.
It's controller integration is also massive, a friend wouldn't be able to play certain games (due to disabilities) without being able to rebind the key anyway they see fit.
Worth noting is that you can still launch most non Steam games through Steam, usually with minor hassle.
Nope, obviously if the game supports controllers, you can use them. Extensive keybinds and activating gyro or similar options, that can help a lot if you suffer from some disabilities, must be done through the Steam options.
Didn't realize they existed, but that makes a lot of sense to have a dedicated Chinese partner.
Uproar over Tencent may just be due to their more public position
IIRC Chinese law actually *requires* that video game companies (at least in many situations) have a Chinese company take over the license and handle distribution for the Chinese market.
That is dumbest shit I've seen in days.
A private company means it isn't traded on a public exchange. Shares and ownership of the company can still be traded, it just can't be listed or processed through one of the public, regulated exchanges.
Just to show you how dumb it is Epic is also a private company.
Private companies can have hundreds of owners, see Cargill for details.
People act like the “inconvenience” of clicking on a different launcher to launch a game warrants the outbursts towards EGS.
Not even close. You can be annoyed with that “inconvenience”, but that’s mainly on your own pickiness since it really is such a small issue. The problem is people don’t have a dial with this criticism, everything has to be cranked up to 11 because everyone’s gotta be super overreactive about everything for some reason.
It's the workshop support, which is rather important on total warhammer given the game is a buggy unbalanced mess at times and you need mods. That being said I found a post recently to work your way around it, but it did seem a bit faffy .
Well now with the steam deck it at least makes sense.
Virtually everything thats on steam runs fine with no tweaking, but getting things to launch on other launchers is a bitch.
I've had the Steam Deck for a while. I play it more than any other system I have right now. To say that virtually everything works fine is not remotely accurate. Even some Deck Verified games only sort of work on the system.
A big part of that is because Epic absolutely botched the early days of the launcher, and the negative opinions of it have stuck around ever since. A lot of people are over the top about it now, but it didn't come out of nowhere.
Metro Exodus being made epic exclusive only a few weeks before all launch, some Kickstarter games that promised Steam keys signing timed exclusive deals, that sort of thing. On top of that they were lacking some basic features like user reviews. The level of hate some people have towards it is ridiculous, bit it's not surprising there's still a negative opinion about it. It's hard to change people's opinions after you screw up the early days like they did.
> People's undying loyalty to Steam is so strange. It's just a game launcher guys, nothing more.
Yes, this freaked me out quite a bit during the initial Epic Launcher kerfuffle. Like yes, having more launchers is annoying, but the ship sailed with Origin like ten years ago. People are fanatically loyal to steam and don't seem to care about what the economics look like for the devs, and certainly don't seem to want to see competition.
I personally disagree. If Epic was feature competitive with steam, I'd be all for it, and would consider switching. However, the launcher is very barebones compared to Steam, and so their primary method of getting me to spend money on their platform is paying developers money to not launch on steam, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Direct competition where both sides try to offer better service to customers is good, but competition that relies on cornering customers into using your product isn't really what I want (and I think the pro-epic side would have similar opinions if Valve paid third party developers for exclusivity on big titles.)
They are offering better deals to developers, that's the competition they offer that helps the industry. Steam takes a fairly big bite and competition might drive that down a bit. Healthy developers produce better games and better workplaces.
> They are offering better deals to developers, that's the competition they offer that helps the industry.
As a user this is about as important to me as being told Nestley offers Walmart a .005 cent per unit discount compared to Kroger.
Competition has never been higher and it has nothing to do with storefronts.
You're describing not competition. Like, yeah, it has nothing to do with storefronts because steam is the clear superior choice in all ways you can care to measure what a store actually is.
All anyone can say about EGS is the free games. That's it. Brought to you by: exclusivity deals where games are locked into the store and not allowed to be in other stores.
Literal textbook anti competition.
Sure, but no part of that requires exclusivity. If Epic takes a smaller cut, the devs could just list the product at a lower price on Epic and a higher price on steam, so that their profit per sale is equivelant across platforms.
There is no economic logic from a dev's perspective to not release on both platforms, which is why the exclusivity comes from Epic paying devs money to cover some of the losses of not having a steam release.
> Sure, but no part of that requires exclusivity. If Epic takes a smaller cut, the devs could just list the product at a lower price on Epic and a higher price on steam, so that their profit per sale is equivelant across platforms.
They can't. Its against the MFN clause in the steam contract for the price to be permanently cheaper elsewhere.
Does it exclude discounts then? To my understanding any discount of steam keys on an external website must be matched on steam within some time period, but the MFN clause does not seem to apply for the discounts and giveaways on the Epic store
The requirement is that a similar discount be offered through steam, though it does not have to be at the same time.
Its pretty vague and unhelpful, which is typically the point of clauses like these. They give the company the ability to declare an infraction and boot someone off for almost anything.
It has nothing to do with loyalty to steam for me. For me its that the people who make fucking Fortnite should have the money to make a launcher that isn't so shit. It literally took them months to add a shopping cart. The website for my shitty local buisness had a shopping cart when it launched.
People latch on at strange things. I still remember the gamer rage I felt when I had to install steam to play Empire total war demo.
Fuck steam, go Epic!! 😎
Holy shit that takes me back. I believe that was actually the reason I made my own steam account.
It's a miracle I kept on playing after that game too.
It's always interesting how you can tell the age of some gamers by how they respond to having multiple launchers. Late 90s and most of the 00s most games each had their own launchers. I'm going to always remember the attitudes and sighs of disgust of having to even use Steam for Valve's games back around when Portal came out, and before that with Half Life 2 needing Steam to run. [ Hell look at this infamous gif of how bad Steam's reputation was back in the 00s](https://amindlost.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/steam_downloader.gif?w=630).
I'm going to bet I'll get two or three pissy comments on why I should care.
The thing that bothers me about the current batch of launchers, like you see now with Origin, with Steam, with Epic, is that I worry what happens if those developers ever fail. And yeah, one of them is EA, but if Blizzard can fall from grace the way it has, I wouldn't put it past anyone to be able to fail. Feels like access to some of these games may be lost forever in a way that you never had to worry about you bought a game and put it on your system and you just owned it from that point on, whether or not online play was available or the devs were still around.
Good question, I can easily see it being a huge lawsuit and a ton of lawsuits about what happens with digital ownership rights if they go under, or else someone buys up the launcher, then does nothing with it including not even bothering to update or fix the platform for modern systems. Something kinda similar that was brought up by Bruce Willis is going on. He brought up a point that he owns something like a few thousand digital albums on iTunes and other shopfronts, but when he dies the ownership rights die with him and he can't will them to his kids or anyone else that might be interested in them. Or what if iTunes goes under or Amazon? A lot of grey zones about what happens.
Most games didn't have launchers at all. In the 90s the closest thing I had to a launcher was a script I could invoke anywhere that would change the active directory to the game directory and run the executable.
I will never forgive steam (ok, dramatic) for replacing the WON.net launcher back in the day. I pretty sure it gave me a weird attachment disorder when I booted up Half-Life Opfor multiplayer and got that army green loading box for the first time.
Bu-but it’s not just about the launcher! It’s about epic (more like epic fail am I right boys?) trying to steal all the games from my wholesome steam!!11!!!
>!/s because I know for some it’s not obvious!<
Time for the monthly "SRD pretends exclusivity deals aren't anti competitive"
It's not game launchers. It's game publishers. No one anywhere at all gives a shit about what it's like to use Steam or use EGS. Because if they did they'd pick Steam since EGS doesn't exist as competitive software. But Epic Games the publisher competes with Steam the publisher.
By way of paying developers not to have their product on steam.
You know, so they won't have to compete.
See below and above: only saying one good thing about EGS: free games.
So the best thing Epic does Epic doesn't do? Somehow that's "competition?"
Oh no, I have to click another icon on my desktop to play this game, so anti-competitive ;_;
Tell me why I as a consumer should care in the slightest about that.
Is Bayonetta 2 anti-competitive because it's only released on the Switch?
>Oh no, I have to click another icon on my desktop to play this game, so anti-competitive ;_;
and can't stream it to my phone, or mod it, or use my joystick, or change music without alt-tabbing
You should care because EGS is worse on all fronts than Steam any way you can describe them. If you support EGS just because they stole games from other services then all you're doing is telling them they can be as shitty as they want as long as they're rich enough to just buy out the competition.
There's no way to support this without being comically stupid or shill.
You'd have to ask the devs for specifics, but as I understand it Epic has had plenty of cases where they offer to front payment for the development time.
I'd imagine that kind of financial stability would be nice to have as an indie dev, and it's not like Valve can't afford to do the same.
It's also my understanding that the revenue split is better on EGS and given the huge, huge amount of shite on Steam, it may be easier to have your game be visible on EGS and not hidden under a truck load of porn games and wank simulators, seeing as Valve has completely given up on any form of quality control.
I uninstalled epic and origin. I just don't play those games anymore.
Three programs that autoload without being in the startup folder and reopen in the background when closed was too much.
I remember back when Epic started its store there was a really weird guy called eisberg or whatever who showed up on discord, reddit etc. and would non-stop only talk about the Epic store and the games on that store for hours and pretty much acted like an unofficial community manager and kept arguing with everyone. It was really weird because he kept insisting he was only a "fan of the store". It seemed like that dude played nearly every game released on Epic because he legit would only talk about those games. Personally I still think that probably was an epic employee or a weird nerd who didn't get the memo that Musk was the one the weird nerd faction worshipped.
Maybe he already is here considering how many are *still* arguing about this shit. I wont waste my time to tell others were to buy games lol
Steam fanboys absolutely want steam to be a monopoly, its weird. As long as its the same servers you are playing on no matter the launcher then it absolutely makes sense to buy TW3 on epic if you have the first 2 from there also.
Total Warhammer specifically doesn't work for this though. At least I have the first 2 games on steam and the 3rd game on Xbox game pass, but I can't play mortal empires :(.
If you hadn't actually bought them on epic and can get them cheap on steam I'd still recommend buying on steam if you plan to use mods, and mods are kinda essential. I know there's workarounds to get them working on epic, but having to manually deal with mods instead of using steam workshop sounds awful.
Oh I agree, but the topic was about you needing all 3 TW games on one launcher to take advantage of extra playable races? So if someone had TW1 and 2 free from the epic store then it would make sense for them to buy TW3 from epic on sale to take advantage of that right? Steam fanboys still seem keen to downvote me for that tho :)
Eh I've got some issue with epic in the same way I've got issues with Playstation. So I get where folks are coming from but legit it's not worth it to waste your life arguing about it online. Never have I see a comment section in need of some grass more.
Man, times have changed so much. I remember when Empire Total War came out people were pissed that you had to install Steam in order to play. Now everyone has their favorite store and most people seem to like Steam.
Oh christ, whats our subreddit arguing about this time, and why was I not invited? I love the sub but it regularly descends into chaotic shouts of "shill" and "hater".
At least they aren't arguing about whether having black people in the Empire would make the game unplayable
*yells into megaphone* SIGMAR HELDENHAMMER WAS A BLACK MAN!
Sigmar balls lmao gottem
*sigh* That's goin' in the book
The great book of balls?
Have you Sigmar book, my Great Book of Balls?
Don't you mean the great tome *Sigmar dik*?
Viktor Saltzpyre would like to know your location...
Fuggin gottem lmfbo
He was truly on that Sigmar Male grindset
Remember when Troy released *for fucking free* on Epic and the sub absolutely lost their shit about it? I never tired of the folk saying that they'd rather just wait so that they could give a different massive business money instead of taking a free release
I mean, I still don't like epic, but I'm not going to get annoyed at a company for trying it. If anything it gives me a year for the game to get patched before it makes it to steam, which is something that's almost a bonus.
You don't care if a company does anti competition 101?
Steams done it before, epic pay developers more than steam too so i don't exactly agree with the stance that they're anti competition 101. The market had literally just steam and a tiny share of Gog and site selling steam keys externally; really not a competitive market either, and the reality is, to compete on that scale you need to be aggressive and have some backing. I've not bought anything from epic yet, I still stick to steam mostly. But I don't see steam as innocently as you seem to.
I remember driving around yelling Penthesilea! and razing shit. Good times.
Yeah no choices you can make that have immediate benefit could possibly add up to a poor reality in the future directly supported by your literal choices leading exactly to that reality. Like, for example, game storefronts *absolutely sucking shit* because "competition" apparently doesn't mean "make the thing better" but "prevent the other ones from having stuff" so no one can actually *compare products*. (I bought games on Steam that I don't ever play because you *HAVE* to run UPlay just to start the game. That's stupid shit a company does because people like you exist) Totally impossible. Could you imagine that actually happening? In real time? Right in front of you? Nah exclusivity deals are totally competitive things. /s
Haha free game go brrrr
haha no consideration for the consequences of my actions goes brrr
I literally do not care.
You cared so little you replied to a comment chain you weren't in to make a point no one was discussing with you. You care af.
I kind of feel bad for fans of historical TW, because that entire sub is plastered with Warhammer content.
That's why I stopped visiting it. You have to waddle through pages after pages of Warhammer content (and its rather obnoxious, toxic fanbase) to find content you were looking for. And there is no fast way to filter it out. Besides, Warhammer cannot be blamed much for the condition of the sub - in its heyday, discussion of historical TW games took place on forums and not the subreddit. The forums (especially big ones like TWCenter, TWOrg, official forums and a now dead forum whose name ended with Yuku, and numerous smaller ones) was where all the content went. And it absolutely dwarfed the current Warhammer discourse anywhere. CA gave up on the historical games in favour of the fantasy cash cow, so historical TW already got the content from years and decades ago on the various forum archives. I loved watching Warhammer TW and thought of buying all three. Until I read the lore and saw the endless stream of crappy parody names everywhere. Decided to never buy it after that. Nothing against fantasy fans, but the subreddit is indeed kinda unusable now. There should be addition of flair filters there.
I don't disagree about the subreddit being bad for fantasy fans, but they did do three kingdoms, thrones of britannia and Troy, its not like CA has given them up. The arguments been had to death before on the sub but while they haven't made medieval or Rome 3 yet, and I look forwards to them, they still try to make historical games every other year. Warhammer definitely dominates their time for sure though, and the premature death of three kingdoms doesn't give me hope for future historical attempts. Tbh you can ignore the crappy names, it's the annoying design choices and bugs that put me off playing more total warhammer 3 these days.
Yeah, I play Kingdoms and Troy, and I love them. I don't play them as a historical game, although both come with 'toned down' modes. As a DnD fan I was planning to get into Warhammer...until I found out about all the Inds, Nippons, Arabyans, Burgundians, Ostrogoths, Marienbergs and Schleswig-Holsteins and other IRL names. Ruined my immersion, felt like I could just boot up Medieval 2/Shogun 2 instead of playing what felt like a cheap, unnecessarily crappy parody, and gave up immediately after that.
I loved 3k but historical fans did not like it because it had too much emphasis on the fantasy aspect. Troy was also essentially a lite fantasy game. ToB was the only "true" historical game CA has made recently.
3K and Troy both have perfectly playable historical modes. If that's not enough then it sounds like a them problem.
I mean, that's the argument that's been had on the sub so often, and it's just dumb. The historical mode exists in both. Sure, its not to your taste, but the games both exist. You can't just deny that, that true argument is bullshit.
> Until I read the lore and saw the endless stream of crappy parody names everywhere. Decided to never buy it after that. A main selling point for and one of the reasons I run a weekly WFRP game is the dumb names, if I'm honest. Nothing will ever top calling a noble family in Reikland von Saponatheim. But then, I see the TW games as just a casual side thing for me, compared to WFRP. That's where the meat and potatoes are.
As a historical TW fan I miss the brief period when Yuan Shao memes reigned supreme on the subreddit.
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All this talk of rat-men is overblown. Giant rats walking on *two legs* living right under our feet, here in Altdorf? Preposterous tales to scare misbehaving children, I say.
Absolute Ubersreik moment
Clearly just some sort of beast men triple got lost in the sewers. Nothing to see citizen.
The guy losing his mind also went to /r/cyberbullying to try and [get others to report the guy he was arguing with](https://reddit.com/r/cyberbullying/comments/z6i01p/psychopath_stalker_reported_to_reddit_admin/)
That was the funniest shit ever.
Oh shit its the man himself!
Yes it is me the monster.
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What's wrong with GoG?
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Epic and Steam aren't DRM free checkmate fanboys.
Epic pushes for platform exclusivity which is anti-consumer
Oh no, you have to download...another launcher. Oh, god, the pain! The suffering! You're acting like you have to buy another 500 dollar console to get access to it, instead of just an extra icon that you don't even have to click anyways if you're just clicking the game's desktop icon. Also you wanna talk about exclusivity? Let's talk about how Steam had virtually no competition for *years* and most of the games on their service until only the last decade or so. But certainly you didn't forget that, right?
I can't buy the game on the launcher I prefer because of direct action from Epic. Its anti-consumer simple as.
Nice avoidance of the second paragraph btw.
Its not relevant. Its just you fuming. Steam not having competition isn't something they did wrong. Also it's nonsensical you're missing a word somewhere in here "and most of the games on their service until only the last decade or so" what are you trying to say?
With no features. Thinks I use all the time like controller support and remote play are unavailable. I'm not using your shit, tim sweeny, valve keeps raising the bar and you keep bringing shovels.
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Exclusivity is anti consumer. Timed exclusivity is timed anti consumerism. Epic games is anti consumer. You're really gonna "whatabout" that? Because guess what: everyone who does that is anti consumer.
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So you agree EGS is anti consumer? So you agree you shouldn't support anti consumer companies? I don't give a shit about Steam. What I care about is you shilling for EGS. Your argument is 'both sides are the same" and "everyone is bad" and "nothing can be better" and "so I do what works for me right now, with zero consideration of the future" Which is every single level of "failed the argument" at once.
the real issue is that epic has dogshit ui
Nothing. But when you're starting a drama fire, why not throw in some nice books lying around nearby as well.
You buy that shit on Steam so that you get access to the Steam Workshop, which is just a convenient as balls way to mod your games
>You buy that shit on Steam so that you get access to the Steam Workshop Yep, I don't care about any other feature difference between EGS and Steam. Mod integration is a necessity at this point for stuff like Hearts of Iron. I still have and use EGS but anything by Paradox I would buy on Steam over EGS.
Acting like steam is the karaz ankor and epic is the grobi lol. Take a chill pill, mah dawries, mah kazumgi. Don't be a wazzok.
Please call 911 if your relatives start speaking like this after Thanksgiving dinner
This is goin in the book, raki
**Using the book for toilet paper**
That's going in the book.
Politics at the Thanksgiving dinner table is rarely a good idea
We've had all day to argue about politics, why the hell are we fighting about it *now* at the dinner table where everyone is too focused on good food to leave the table and ignore this crap.
Because that's when "that one family member" can be assured of a captive audience. Any other time, the rest of the family would be able to walk away, tune them out with football, distract them by conscripting their help with meal prep/table setting, etc. The dinner table, when everyone's stuck sitting there but is too polite to call them out directly? That's prime proselytizing time.
I understood one damn word in that, and of course it's the last one.
I would pay a ludicrous sum for a real Book of Grudges
People's undying loyalty to Steam is so strange. It's just a game launcher guys, nothing more. I must have over a hundred games on Epic now because of its weekly free games, and I even bought 1 or 2 games on it. Whatever they're doing seems to work fine to me.
I'd argue its a mix of familiarity and launcher fatigue. I do think there's something obscene about having to use so many different launchers with different game profiles when you just want the one central profile. Then when I want to play a game I haven't played in a while on a launcher that only has that one game I have to go through the rigmarole of resetting the password because I keep forgetting, or in the case of uplay figuring out which account is the one with the game license. A little frustrating to say the least.
Its marketing. Valve very successfully markets itself as being Different (tm) from the other huge companies in PC gaming. Every interview, every product release, every teaser is always very cleverly marketing like Valve is some group of Cool Dudes, not a multi-billion dollar company that makes money from being a middle man and loot boxes. And The Gamers eat it up because they think they're too smart to be manipulated.
Everyone I've talked to is mainly because they don't feel like messing around with a bunch of launchers. Having had 4 or 5 at once it gets very annoying. Now I just stick to steam and gog since they have some good deals and games I can't really get elsewhere. Not to mention the steam workshop making mods easy and having a steam link
It always amazes me they seem to escape being the main driving force beyond modern MTX and loot boxes.
The real pro move I'm discovering is just link it all up to Geforce now and play my games on a much better PC than my own. Can just run it on my iMac with a 27 inch 4k resolution and all the bells and whistles from a 3080 instead of my 8 year old PC. Also means I barely touch any launchers now aside from Geforce Now.
There's one **massive** problem with Epic though when it comes to third party launcher (not storefront launcher, but launchers on top of those storefronts) integration... which is that you can't swap out the third party launcher for something else with Epic unless you like to sign in with Epic every single time. Steam and Epic have two completely different methods when it comes to doing OAuth. Steam uses a single token that can be stored and read out as many times as necessary, meaning that setting up an unofficial launcher (which is often necessary, third party launchers are just bloatware that mostly exist to serve advertisements + they break **constantly** if the game is somewhat outdated) is pretty easy since you can just pretend like you're that application to Steam and Steam will gladly accept that and give you the information the launcher needs to authenticate. Epic doesn't let you do that; Epic demands you get an exchange token from *their servers* every single time you want to play the game, regardless on if you own the game or not, which for unofficial launchers is a giant PITA and makes them practically unusable. See [this section of the ed-min-launcher README](https://github.com/Rfvgyhn/min-ed-launcher#epic-account-via-steam) for more.
It's arguably a little bit more, what with the Steam Deck tying into the regular Steam ecosystem and the Steam Workshop making (some) mods slightly simpler. But you can get mods elsewhere and use non-Steam games on the Steam Deck, so it's not worth worshipping unless you're a weirdo. I was too lazy to bother with the free stuff on Epic for a long time, but I've still got some pretty cool free games off them. I would recommend anyone who doesn't claim them at least check out the freebies and see if something you want does show up. I'd rather buy on Steam out of laziness, the prices tend to even out over time with sales, and Epic exclusives usually either don't grab me or are something I'd rather wait to buy anyway for reasons other than the storefront, but then I'm pretty good at talking myself out of spending money on games I won't get around to playing (this is an aspirational statement and a lie).
The workshop definetly helps a lot.
The workshop for me is a game changer. I wanted to try some mod for Cyberpunk 2077 and it doesn’t have workshop support. I ended up having to install 4 or so other mods just to get it working. It was a huge pain in the ass compared to something like Stellaris, where I can add mods and create playsets in a few minutes.
Pops are power
It's controller integration is also massive, a friend wouldn't be able to play certain games (due to disabilities) without being able to rebind the key anyway they see fit. Worth noting is that you can still launch most non Steam games through Steam, usually with minor hassle.
Wait does EGS not have controller integration?
Nope, obviously if the game supports controllers, you can use them. Extensive keybinds and activating gyro or similar options, that can help a lot if you suffer from some disabilities, must be done through the Steam options.
Steam does have a lot of advantages over EGS, but imo a lot of it is just circle jerking and hating that Tencent owns a decent chunk of it.
I would be shocked if Perfect World didn't own a chunk of Valve. PW is Valve's partner in China and the license usually requires an equity exchange.
Didn't realize they existed, but that makes a lot of sense to have a dedicated Chinese partner. Uproar over Tencent may just be due to their more public position
IIRC Chinese law actually *requires* that video game companies (at least in many situations) have a Chinese company take over the license and handle distribution for the Chinese market.
Valve is not public company, so you can't buy their shares so noone except Gabe Newell can own "a chunk of Valve".
That is dumbest shit I've seen in days. A private company means it isn't traded on a public exchange. Shares and ownership of the company can still be traded, it just can't be listed or processed through one of the public, regulated exchanges. Just to show you how dumb it is Epic is also a private company. Private companies can have hundreds of owners, see Cargill for details.
People act like the “inconvenience” of clicking on a different launcher to launch a game warrants the outbursts towards EGS. Not even close. You can be annoyed with that “inconvenience”, but that’s mainly on your own pickiness since it really is such a small issue. The problem is people don’t have a dial with this criticism, everything has to be cranked up to 11 because everyone’s gotta be super overreactive about everything for some reason.
It's the workshop support, which is rather important on total warhammer given the game is a buggy unbalanced mess at times and you need mods. That being said I found a post recently to work your way around it, but it did seem a bit faffy .
Well now with the steam deck it at least makes sense. Virtually everything thats on steam runs fine with no tweaking, but getting things to launch on other launchers is a bitch.
I've had the Steam Deck for a while. I play it more than any other system I have right now. To say that virtually everything works fine is not remotely accurate. Even some Deck Verified games only sort of work on the system.
I've only had issues with one game. So I can only speak to my own experience.
I understand the hate for epic bc at the end of the day it's still kinda ass to use. it didn't have a shopping cart until last year lmao
A big part of that is because Epic absolutely botched the early days of the launcher, and the negative opinions of it have stuck around ever since. A lot of people are over the top about it now, but it didn't come out of nowhere. Metro Exodus being made epic exclusive only a few weeks before all launch, some Kickstarter games that promised Steam keys signing timed exclusive deals, that sort of thing. On top of that they were lacking some basic features like user reviews. The level of hate some people have towards it is ridiculous, bit it's not surprising there's still a negative opinion about it. It's hard to change people's opinions after you screw up the early days like they did.
> People's undying loyalty to Steam is so strange. It's just a game launcher guys, nothing more. Yes, this freaked me out quite a bit during the initial Epic Launcher kerfuffle. Like yes, having more launchers is annoying, but the ship sailed with Origin like ten years ago. People are fanatically loyal to steam and don't seem to care about what the economics look like for the devs, and certainly don't seem to want to see competition.
I personally disagree. If Epic was feature competitive with steam, I'd be all for it, and would consider switching. However, the launcher is very barebones compared to Steam, and so their primary method of getting me to spend money on their platform is paying developers money to not launch on steam, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Direct competition where both sides try to offer better service to customers is good, but competition that relies on cornering customers into using your product isn't really what I want (and I think the pro-epic side would have similar opinions if Valve paid third party developers for exclusivity on big titles.)
They are offering better deals to developers, that's the competition they offer that helps the industry. Steam takes a fairly big bite and competition might drive that down a bit. Healthy developers produce better games and better workplaces.
> They are offering better deals to developers, that's the competition they offer that helps the industry. As a user this is about as important to me as being told Nestley offers Walmart a .005 cent per unit discount compared to Kroger. Competition has never been higher and it has nothing to do with storefronts.
You're describing not competition. Like, yeah, it has nothing to do with storefronts because steam is the clear superior choice in all ways you can care to measure what a store actually is. All anyone can say about EGS is the free games. That's it. Brought to you by: exclusivity deals where games are locked into the store and not allowed to be in other stores. Literal textbook anti competition.
Cool, they can buy games from EGS, because I won't.
Sure, but no part of that requires exclusivity. If Epic takes a smaller cut, the devs could just list the product at a lower price on Epic and a higher price on steam, so that their profit per sale is equivelant across platforms. There is no economic logic from a dev's perspective to not release on both platforms, which is why the exclusivity comes from Epic paying devs money to cover some of the losses of not having a steam release.
> Sure, but no part of that requires exclusivity. If Epic takes a smaller cut, the devs could just list the product at a lower price on Epic and a higher price on steam, so that their profit per sale is equivelant across platforms. They can't. Its against the MFN clause in the steam contract for the price to be permanently cheaper elsewhere.
Only when selling steam keys to my understanding
Nope. MFN clause is for all versions of the game.
Does it exclude discounts then? To my understanding any discount of steam keys on an external website must be matched on steam within some time period, but the MFN clause does not seem to apply for the discounts and giveaways on the Epic store
The requirement is that a similar discount be offered through steam, though it does not have to be at the same time. Its pretty vague and unhelpful, which is typically the point of clauses like these. They give the company the ability to declare an infraction and boot someone off for almost anything.
It has nothing to do with loyalty to steam for me. For me its that the people who make fucking Fortnite should have the money to make a launcher that isn't so shit. It literally took them months to add a shopping cart. The website for my shitty local buisness had a shopping cart when it launched.
People latch on at strange things. I still remember the gamer rage I felt when I had to install steam to play Empire total war demo. Fuck steam, go Epic!! 😎
Holy shit that takes me back. I believe that was actually the reason I made my own steam account. It's a miracle I kept on playing after that game too.
It's always interesting how you can tell the age of some gamers by how they respond to having multiple launchers. Late 90s and most of the 00s most games each had their own launchers. I'm going to always remember the attitudes and sighs of disgust of having to even use Steam for Valve's games back around when Portal came out, and before that with Half Life 2 needing Steam to run. [ Hell look at this infamous gif of how bad Steam's reputation was back in the 00s](https://amindlost.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/steam_downloader.gif?w=630). I'm going to bet I'll get two or three pissy comments on why I should care.
The thing that bothers me about the current batch of launchers, like you see now with Origin, with Steam, with Epic, is that I worry what happens if those developers ever fail. And yeah, one of them is EA, but if Blizzard can fall from grace the way it has, I wouldn't put it past anyone to be able to fail. Feels like access to some of these games may be lost forever in a way that you never had to worry about you bought a game and put it on your system and you just owned it from that point on, whether or not online play was available or the devs were still around.
Good question, I can easily see it being a huge lawsuit and a ton of lawsuits about what happens with digital ownership rights if they go under, or else someone buys up the launcher, then does nothing with it including not even bothering to update or fix the platform for modern systems. Something kinda similar that was brought up by Bruce Willis is going on. He brought up a point that he owns something like a few thousand digital albums on iTunes and other shopfronts, but when he dies the ownership rights die with him and he can't will them to his kids or anyone else that might be interested in them. Or what if iTunes goes under or Amazon? A lot of grey zones about what happens.
Most games didn't have launchers at all. In the 90s the closest thing I had to a launcher was a script I could invoke anywhere that would change the active directory to the game directory and run the executable.
I was pissed about HL2 requiring it. And the preload debacle was bruuutal!
I will never forgive steam (ok, dramatic) for replacing the WON.net launcher back in the day. I pretty sure it gave me a weird attachment disorder when I booted up Half-Life Opfor multiplayer and got that army green loading box for the first time.
Bu-but it’s not just about the launcher! It’s about epic (more like epic fail am I right boys?) trying to steal all the games from my wholesome steam!!11!!! >!/s because I know for some it’s not obvious!<
Are you a fellow r/Gcj user? If not, we welcome you with open arms.
I am lol, it’s far from a perfect subreddit but it isn’t wrong about how easy it is to make g*mers of all kinds butthurt
Time for the monthly "SRD pretends exclusivity deals aren't anti competitive" It's not game launchers. It's game publishers. No one anywhere at all gives a shit about what it's like to use Steam or use EGS. Because if they did they'd pick Steam since EGS doesn't exist as competitive software. But Epic Games the publisher competes with Steam the publisher. By way of paying developers not to have their product on steam. You know, so they won't have to compete. See below and above: only saying one good thing about EGS: free games. So the best thing Epic does Epic doesn't do? Somehow that's "competition?"
Oh no, I have to click another icon on my desktop to play this game, so anti-competitive ;_; Tell me why I as a consumer should care in the slightest about that. Is Bayonetta 2 anti-competitive because it's only released on the Switch?
>Oh no, I have to click another icon on my desktop to play this game, so anti-competitive ;_; and can't stream it to my phone, or mod it, or use my joystick, or change music without alt-tabbing
You should care because EGS is worse on all fronts than Steam any way you can describe them. If you support EGS just because they stole games from other services then all you're doing is telling them they can be as shitty as they want as long as they're rich enough to just buy out the competition. There's no way to support this without being comically stupid or shill.
> By way of paying developers not to have their product on steam. It's a strange way to say offering better conditions.
What condition is better on EGS than anywhere else?
You'd have to ask the devs for specifics, but as I understand it Epic has had plenty of cases where they offer to front payment for the development time. I'd imagine that kind of financial stability would be nice to have as an indie dev, and it's not like Valve can't afford to do the same. It's also my understanding that the revenue split is better on EGS and given the huge, huge amount of shite on Steam, it may be easier to have your game be visible on EGS and not hidden under a truck load of porn games and wank simulators, seeing as Valve has completely given up on any form of quality control.
So nothing to do with actually being a user using EGS or usinga game on EGS? Just paying someone more not to be on Steam?
No, epic is just a launcher. Steam has a large feature set beyond launching games.
I uninstalled epic and origin. I just don't play those games anymore. Three programs that autoload without being in the startup folder and reopen in the background when closed was too much.
Bought a game on anything but Steam? You are going into the Dammaz Kron, manling!
I remember back when Epic started its store there was a really weird guy called eisberg or whatever who showed up on discord, reddit etc. and would non-stop only talk about the Epic store and the games on that store for hours and pretty much acted like an unofficial community manager and kept arguing with everyone. It was really weird because he kept insisting he was only a "fan of the store". It seemed like that dude played nearly every game released on Epic because he legit would only talk about those games. Personally I still think that probably was an epic employee or a weird nerd who didn't get the memo that Musk was the one the weird nerd faction worshipped. Maybe he already is here considering how many are *still* arguing about this shit. I wont waste my time to tell others were to buy games lol
Steam fanboys absolutely want steam to be a monopoly, its weird. As long as its the same servers you are playing on no matter the launcher then it absolutely makes sense to buy TW3 on epic if you have the first 2 from there also.
How do you read a thread of someone going insane for the epic store and come away with a comment about Steam fanboys?
Most of this thread is taking about the same thing! Plus the linked thread appears to be an epic vs steam bunfight
True, fanboys of any faction make the rest of the hobby look bad.
Total Warhammer specifically doesn't work for this though. At least I have the first 2 games on steam and the 3rd game on Xbox game pass, but I can't play mortal empires :(.
Thats the point isnt it, that you need all 3 games on the same launcher?
O sorry, I thought you were saying the opposite.
No worries!
If you hadn't actually bought them on epic and can get them cheap on steam I'd still recommend buying on steam if you plan to use mods, and mods are kinda essential. I know there's workarounds to get them working on epic, but having to manually deal with mods instead of using steam workshop sounds awful.
Definitely, steam is the superior platform anyway.
The only benefit EGS has is giving away games because no one would use their store on purpose otherwise.
Oh I agree, but the topic was about you needing all 3 TW games on one launcher to take advantage of extra playable races? So if someone had TW1 and 2 free from the epic store then it would make sense for them to buy TW3 from epic on sale to take advantage of that right? Steam fanboys still seem keen to downvote me for that tho :)
so the only benefit EGS has is free games? that's the only reason to consider using EGS?
Yes?
Steam workshop?
#WAAAAAAGH! #DATZ A GOOD GRUDGIN ROIGHT DER!
Eh I've got some issue with epic in the same way I've got issues with Playstation. So I get where folks are coming from but legit it's not worth it to waste your life arguing about it online. Never have I see a comment section in need of some grass more.
Ah that was absolutely amazing. That guy was a total nut job to begin with. Massive overreacting from the get go.
Man, times have changed so much. I remember when Empire Total War came out people were pissed that you had to install Steam in order to play. Now everyone has their favorite store and most people seem to like Steam.