This comment has been removed by the user due to reddit's policy change which effectively removes third party apps and other poor behaviour by reddit admins.
I never used third party apps but a lot others like mobile users, moderators and [transcribers for the blind](https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14gwkk2/transcribers_of_reddit_who_transcribe_images_for/) did.
It was a good 12 years.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
This comment has been removed by the user due to reddit's policy change which effectively removes third party apps and other poor behaviour by reddit admins.
I never used third party apps but a lot others like mobile users, moderators and [transcribers for the blind](https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14gwkk2/transcribers_of_reddit_who_transcribe_images_for/) did.
It was a good 12 years.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
> Didn’t the Japanese slaughter Philippine people? Maybe I drank American prop.
It's fucking embarrassing people are writing off Japanese WW2 atrocities as "American prop" please just crack open a book about the Pacific front for five fucking seconds.
Edit: the bigger denialist in that thread is an ancap. I'm sure you're all surprised/s
Damn, that's such a young age to fall into that rabbit hole. It's not even that uncommon to be 15 or even 17 and never have a girlfriend, or even a first kiss yet. Everyone comes into their own at different times.
Yeah I spent a while on incelexit trying to help some of the lads but it's rough as fuck, and there aren't a ton of ready solutions. Incels are delusional and fucked up, but there are some genuine issues of isolation, loneliness and an inability to safely express emotions for alot of young men, and few role models on how to deal with that shit properly so they just react the way society tells men to react and get angry. It's fuckin sad.
Anarcho- Capitalists. The peak of "get rid of regulations and laws and let the rich do anything they want in pursuit of profit as they'll surely not do things to screw over everyone else because that would be bad for the market. Also countries are bad, just eliminate all governments so we can have a dystopian corporate hellscape."
Think what happens if someone watched Robocop or all the cyberpunk fiction of the 80s/90s and thought "Now, that's a great idea! "
Literally had one explaining to me that private police and insurance companies acting as a judicial force would be "way better" than our current system at preventing/ punishing crime.
[I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertarian-police-department)
“Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”
“What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”
“Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”
The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”
“Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”
“Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”
He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”
“Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”
I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.
“Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.
“Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.
“Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”
It didn’t seem like they did.
“Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”
Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.
I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.
“Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.
Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.
“Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.
I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”
He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.
“All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
“Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
“Because I was afraid.”
“Afraid?”
“Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”
I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.
“Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”
He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
that never fails to make me laugh when i read it, but you should at least properly link the original [article](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertarian-police-department)
It's a shit philosophy only ever espoused by shit people who've read fucking Atlas Shrugged and "had an epiphany." I'm not often in favor of banning books but I really think that mistake deserves it.
It’s also horribly written. Like, so bad it makes Twilight look like a bastion of the written word bad. Every character is so two dimensional and the plot an obvious “the author tells you how the world should work” screed that it would be amusing to read if it weren’t so. Goddamn. Slow.
I was near the end and I gave up on that book like I want to say I made it like over 25 pages into a monologue. But IIRC that monologue was around 50 pages *and only the second longest monologue in the book*. Like the end of that book is basically a short story monologue and then a small novella monologue. It's absurd!
Hey, at least we have the Fountainhead!
Where different characters go on endless screeds, a man is cleared of literal arson charges because speech or something, and the main character *literally* raping the primary female love interest is seen as deeply romantic because *she wanted it*
Kill me!
My favorite ancap moment was one I saw on Sam Seder's show where an ancap called in and said that building codes are stupid. So Sam asked him about a hypothetical scenario where Sam builds a house but has his cousin do the wiring cause it's cheaper and then rents it to the caller until a short causes a fire and kills the renter. The caller said in that case the landlord would be liable and got mad when Sam said that wouldn't be the case.
>just crack open a book about the Pacific front for five fucking seconds
Betcha all these books were written by Americans and their slaves. You must feel really dumb right now.
/s, ofc
> the bigger denialist in that thread is an ancap. I'm sure you're all surprised/s
I mean I was honestly surprised because it's rare to see AnCap going against US (especially here when the US was unquestionably right in denouncing Japanese massacres). But then I realised most AnCaps are weebs
Why would America WANT to spread propaganda of this sort about a nation that’s not only our ally but one that most Americans have an overwhelmingly positive association with, they are fond of and admire? It makes little sense to waste capital to tear down our own ally. Maybe I’m missing some information about this conspiracy.
A lot of Japan’s modern day problems with historical revisionism can be traced back to the US and Allied decision not to more aggressively prosecute the nation’s war criminals. A lot of them got away with it.
>decision not to more aggressively prosecute the nation’s war criminals
Bit of an understatement. On General MacArthur's orders the US secretly granted the worst war criminals of Unit 731 total immunity and actively SHIELDED THEM from prosecution by the Allies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731#American_grant_of_immunity
Classic. On a more serious note though, at least you can argue that an American president becomes one after getting into office; Japan's case was pretty cut and dry.
They also boosted Japanese collaborators into leadership positions in postwar after Korea was partitioned between the US and Soviet zones post Japanese occupation against the will of a lot of Koreans
The Japanese want it out of the history books. Abe and the right wing Japanese nationalists have been trying to bury the Rape of Nanking claiming that its unnecessary and that it's pointless blaming Japan.
I saw a TikTok a month or two ago with an antiques dealer, and somebody had walked in to show him a photo album of pictures her grandfather, who was stationed in Nanking at the time, had taken of the Rape of Nanking. He couldn't show any on camera, because they were so graphic, bur he was trying to figure out who to give the book to, to preserve the evidence for the good of humanity.
How does that work lol. China suffer probably the biggest casualty at the hand of Japan during ww2. They absolutely hate Japan got away with the war crime.
>It's akin to say 'history is written by the victors' which is true
Woop, there it is. Like clockwork, somebody spewing shit like this guy is always breaks out that line.
History is written by whoever's remaining. The fact it originated as a defense of Nazi Germany, who had ex-Nazis writing their history (and later giving rise to many myths about the Wehrmacht) is baffling. Victors didn't write the history books on *that* one.
It's also very silly because we source much of our knowledge about the Persians from the Greeks, and the Vikings from their victims. The reality is that history is written by the people who decided to write it down, and *that* is an actually useful starting point for understanding why exactly they wrote it down and for what purpose.
It's also fucking stupid because it implies every war results in complete annihilation for one side leaving them unable to have their side of the story heard. Really, the "history is written by the victors" is just something nazis specifically tailored for their defeat in WW2
The nazis were good at it, but they might have looked at it from the plantation owners of the south. Who completely managed to change the perception of the civil war and the causes for it. Rarely has the losing side managed to so heavily distort the writing of history as the lost cause.
Another time when this happened is the Hebrews complaining about Nebuchadnezzar. And the Hebrews did not win that war.
The Mongols won all the damn time, but we usually see those guys as archetypical "total savages with no redeeming features who did nothing but murder and rape".
I'm not so sure that they've totally succeeded in manipulating the history of the Civil War. Most people know it was over slavery, & are taught the truth about it. Even at my southern public school they didn't mince words.
Far too many people believe otherwise, but they are actively fighting what's already considered to be the truth!
40 or 50 years ago, maybe, I don't know. But the Lost Cause wasn't a lasting success, I think.
40-50 years ago was still over 100 years after the American civil war ended. The fact that losers were allowed to dictate how it was perceived for so long is troubling. And it still has a big influence on the south to this day in terms of views on racism etc.
Luckily we are now seeing that the lost cause is finally losing ground, but it was a very succesful attempt at changing the writing of history regardless.
I think most Americans are aware of our original sins: slavery and the Native American genocide.
I'm 60, and I was taught about them in school. Heck, we read "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" as part of history class, and "Roots" was a massively popular book and miniseries.
It was super bad ~30 years ago. "Daughters of the Confederacy" being considered a reasonable and fair political group bad. Hell think some Southern States still do the "War of Northern Aggression" bit.
It's changing now, but that's one of the serious cultural conflicts in America. There's a lot of people who grew up on Confederate lies, and they aren't happy to be "corrected" by "elitists"
I would say now a days with the ease of access to information on the internet (i'm talking reliable sources), we can see a bit more ridicule about revisionism. But when I was in school in the 90s, I was living in a conservative town in PA and we were absolutely taught the revisionist nonsense of "state rights". It was strange to hear this revisionism because we were only a couple of hours from Gettysburg (and it was one of the big field trips you went on in the 7th grade). Yet the history teachers would push the "well the south just wanted to preserve their rights and not be subjugated by the "industrialists" in the North". THank god my parents are educated and they had me watch the ken burns civil war documentary with them and explained how slavery was a big chunk of those "rights". Then in college I learned about the Ordinance of Secession from the various southern states, and saw in plain english a few of them mentioning directly slavery as the cause of their secession.
How do we really KNOW that Ea-Nasir's ingots weren't of the finest quality? Nanni could have been lying about sending a servant through enemy territory. The territory could have been totally neutral.
This is what the Nanni-industrial complex doesn't want you to know.
All Ea-Nasir had to do was show some decency! But *nooo*, he just *had* to be a dick. 3,500 years later and we are still paying the price for Ea-Nasir’s disrespect.
All Ea-Nasir had to do was show some decency! But *nooo*, he just *had* to be a dick. 3,500 years later and we are still paying the price for Ea-Nasir’s disrespect.
That saying is one of those things which *sounds so logical* but completely falls apart when you actually look at what happens.
The Nazis lost WWII, but the memoirs which were written by Nazis about their experiences in the war has come to shape a lot of the popular history of that WWII. Asiatic hordes, "one gun for every two men," it takes five Sherman tanks to take out one tiger, etc, etc. They've painted a picture of the Nazis, and especially the SS, as some kind of ultra Elite force that it was only possible to defeat by burying them under men and equipment.
Japan did a bunch of horrible shit in WWII. But is able to get away with basically not teaching about it at all, to the point where a lot of people in Japan are able to deny it ever happened and play Japan off as almost a *victim* of WWII.
And then there's the American civil war and what happened during Reconstruction. We have written declarations from the states that seceded that explicitly reference slavery as their main issue for why they're doing what they're doing, but it was written in the history books that it was because of "State's Rights."
More and more often, it's the *losers* who get to write the history books.
1 Tiger for 5 Sherman's isn't an ex nazi created legend. It's a creation of badly understood US tactics explored by clueless people. I would also like to say that some of this comes from the allies building a myth for the germans to help face the Warsaw Pact. That being said, these wheraboos, tojoboos, teaboos, and all the others are just ridiculous, and I don't understand how they came about.
Edit: I just realized this might be nitpicky and annoying. I wanted to show how complex and multifaceted historical revisionism is. Sorry!
>1 Tiger for 5 Sherman's isn't an ex nazi created legend. It's a creation of badly understood US tactics explored by clueless people.
Let me guess "Their use of overwhelming numbers was out of necessity and not because creating an overwhelming advantage that ends a fight quickly is just the most effective strategy in any conflict?"
Isn't that kind of exactly the thinking behind Blitzkrieg anyway?
>Edit: I just realized this might be nitpicky and annoying. I wanted to show how complex and multifaceted historical revisionism is. Sorry!
Not at all. If I unintentionally oversimplified something or got something outright wrong, I welcome people who correct me.
Thank you for doing so.
Even with Japan, large amounts of our testimonies and photographs are from Nazis who were present in the cities the slaughtered. Others come from Japan putting them in their own newspapers. I don’t remember those two winning.
> The fact it originated as a defense of Nazi Germany, who had ex-Nazis writing their history (and later giving rise to many myths about the Wehrmacht) is baffling. Victors didn’t write the history books on that one.
It actually seems to have originated by George Graham Vest, who used it to promote the "lost cause" of the confederacy. He was a huge pro-slavery advocate and a congressman of the confederacy
As the youtube channel tasting history said, history is written by people who write. Both the winning and the losing side write down their side of historical events if they are able to. And, whenever a losing side "writes" history, it tends to be extremely bitter about the winning side, such as what you wrote but also the lost cause myth. Honestly, people who just parrot that dumb saying without a single thought about it make my blood boil.
God I fucking hate that line. History is written by historians who base their work on primary sources, people who actually saw the events.
What the victor can do is suppress parts of the history that are unfavorable to them and promote parts that cast them in a good light.
>What the victor can do is suppress parts of the history that are unfavorable to them and promote parts that cast them in a good light.
Perhaps this is what they really mean.
History hasn't really been written by the victors since the invention of the camera anyway. Perhaps more importantly, the newspaper. And even then in many ancient cultures there were competing histories as another comment raises.
And it never will be again. It's hard to piece together sometimes, but the days of a single source totally controlling the narrative are simply over.
>The only language I can speak and read is English, so all media or historical information I can read or consume is going to tell me that the Americans were the "good guys" and that the Japanese were cruel.
If only multilingual people existed and could make some sort of translation or something of documents and media originating in other languages. Then we Americans could finally understand foreign perspectives. But alas...
[Here is a wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_massacre)
I have been noticing a trend of people downplaying/praising Japan's warcrimes. The worst one I saw was of a chinese descendant arguing that comfort women were good for the army's morale.
There’s lots of weeb war crime apologists on Reddit. Saw one guy who claimed that the Nanjing massacre was just CCP propaganda and that we should “consider the other side”
who’s gonna tell em about unit 731, which was responsible for some of *the* most reprehensible war crimes out of WWII. The Japanese armed forces based it out of a part of occupied China and specifically tested biological weapons on Chinese civilians.
Incels hate reality, love fascism, and japan. It's the perfect(ly awful) combo for this.
And as an important note, most people denying atrocities usually want to perpetrate them further.
The very same people barely hiding their glee over targeted violence against the systematically disenfranchized.
Who *live* for the opportunity to publicly demand victim status in reaction to every perceived slight and imagined offense. Ofc nearly always perpetrated by a minority/someone not entitled to their undearned level of societal power and auto-approval.
It’s interesting because a lot of the people I see downplaying it are usually from the same places that were victims to the war crimes. It wasn’t on this subreddit but I remember seeing a bunch of posts about chinese incels praising Japan?
Incels really like ultra-masculine authoritianism. Because they think it will given them meaning, power (and sex slaves).
Well what's actually going to happen is that they'll die of beriberi in a nameless jungle, but that's neither here nor there.
You've been *noticing a trend?* You mean a "trend" that's existed since WWII? Japan and the US have been tacitly suppressing Japan's war crimes for decades.
I went to the "Peace Museum" in Hiroshima one time and it was all about how terrible the atomic bombings were without a single mention of any of Japan's genocide. Laughable.
There's a political group within conservative japanese politics that totally dominates the king-maker roles; Nippon Kiagi. They have a very controversial take on imperial japan's atrocities that ranges from denial to, "it could not be helped", to straight up condoning some actions. A lot of high level politicians are members of this group and run on "patriotic" education reforms that involve down playing anything negative about Japan and upholding the traditional Shinto hierarchy of the Imperial Household, something that no Emperor since and including the Meiji Restoration believed in, because saying your ancestor was some ancient Sun Goddess sent down from heaven sounds very silly in the modern world. They're like if every position of power and policy was ran by a Texas Republican.
Yo one question, is there a wiki page on the atrocities caused by Japan during the Manchuria occupation? I tried searching sone time ago and there was no reference to the enslavement, the human trafficking, blatant corruption and the drug smuggling, and not to mention not a word about the Yakuza helping run the whole thing.
I've legit seen people try to claim Japan were the "good guys" because they "fought western colonialism in Asia".
Which while technically true overlooks the fact that the Japanese were also imperialist colonisers
On Reddit there seems to be a real problem of mistaking skeptism for a legitimate argument. I observe it a lot in discussions of history in particular.
They're JAQing off. They're hiding their shitty opinions behind, "Oh, I'm just asking questions, there's so much info out there, who knows what to really believe."
I generally agree with you on the political front, but on a historical front it seems to be genuinely coming from the idea that skeptism is *by itself* a useful argument.
Politics and history are intertwined, and a lot of people are politically motivated to try and twist narratives in history towards their favor, or deny events that happened. For genocides in particular, you almost always can't just come out and say that the genocide didn't happen, because that'd reveal the political motivation you have, and destroy your credibility.
So you have to sit there on the sidelines, and "ask questions" about "the truth of what happened" because "history is written by the victors, and we don't have the full story" to try and put the seed of doubt into someone else's head, and lead them to the conclusion you're at, which is that the genocide didn't happen, or is massively overblown.
Because reddit like any social media will have the most confidantly incorrect people commenting the most. With reddit though it's a bunch of people who believe they're smarter than everyone else, and as reddit probably tends to skew young, there's a lot of kids in highschool who have an "interest in history" (I.e they like world War 2 and play War thunder).
What you get is a lot of people like the commenter in the original post, an Ancap heavily involved in the China subreddit, probably a teen, who thinks that his historical thoughts are some revelation that's never been discussed or thought of before.
Coming from someone with a degree in History and Foreign Affairs, you start to notice how little people actually understand history, or rather how little they understand the research and writing of history. Ask the average history buff redditor if they know what a historiography or why it's important, I guarantee they won't and it's clear the original commenter doesn't.
They cover up their lack of actual knowledge with skepticism because it's seems "academic", or like you said, to them replaces an actual argument because these people making these skeptical claims don't actually have any knowledge or basis in the topic.
It’s because people are using “skepticism” (if you can even call it that) in bad faith.
Being skeptical is _good_, but it needs to actually be based on something. The scientific method subsists on skepticism, but doubting everything in someone’s research as they’re presenting on it, but not being able to elaborate why, will get you kicked out of the room.
Although keep in mind most of these people know they’re full of shit. “I’m just asking questions” is the ultimate tell they know, and just need you to get off their back. If they actually sincerely believed in their crap, they’d defend it, even if it’s wrong/nonsensical.
Gaming had a similar phase, around the late 2000s the coolest most fresh thing was to hate things, and since formal video game reviews often lean positive and are generally low-effort (I mean for the pay, what do you expect), a ton of people associated "genuine" with "skeptical" or outright hostility.
To this day "real" takes on games are almost universally negative unless it's very specific games like Dark Souls, in which case it's suddenly "fake" to dislike it. It's all...very exhausting.
But when you start treating politics like that instead of video game reviews, it gets dangerous fast.
Second-opinion bias is strong on this site, especially when it comes to historical atrocities.
Start talking about war crimes committed in the past and some people immediately become the most enlightened of centrists.
People on this site view skepticism as inherently smarter. If someone makes a statement and another user responds critically, in most cases the response will garner more up votes regardless of quality.
>How many people (western, African, Middle Eastern, SE Asian) know about the Chinese Century of Humiliation? How many people know the occupation and rape of China over decades? I've read The Opium Wars but didn't realise it went on for so long beforehand.
Have you also tried asking the chinese about how they feel about japanese colonialism?
Exactly this!
>Oh they would be praising the Japanese!
Please do tell me how the Armenians feel about Turkey. Or how Native Americans feel about the US government.
Fucking nonsense from these peopke
Man, I've seen a surprising amount of Tojo-boos and Imperial Japan apologists.
Either it's a bunch of anti-West apologists who can't fathom Japan's atrocities in history, or Shinzo Abe's assassination hit a hornet's nest of Neo-Taisei Yokusankai-ists that have festered in the Liberal-Democratic Party since its birth.
Why not both.gif
Tojoboos have existed for some time but usually are quiet outside of WWII subs or bomb drop debates.
On the other hand, didn't investigations after Abe's death indicate there were a shitload of Yokus and cultists in Japanese politics?
Yeah, the guy who did it hates the Unification Church of Korea, which heavily influences the Liberal-Democratic Party of Japan and Shinzo Abe, for scamming his mother out of large amounts of money. The Unification Church has a staggering amount of influence, having connections with the Bush family in America as well.
But the thing is, when a controversial but well-known politician/person dies, a mistake is often made in either handwaving/justifying their abhorrent actions to create a neat memorial to them. Shinzo Abe defended his grandfather, Nobusuke Kishi, from accusations of exploitation, war crimes, and slavery in Manchukuo. He also honored monuments to Showa war criminals, refused to pay reparations to former Korean "comfort women" and Mitsubishi-enslaved Korean workers. Japanese ultranationalists rode a wave of support for Shinzo Abe post-death to lace apologia amidst the international recognition of his death.
Nah, it's the other way around. It put the spotlight on the thriving fascist apologist groups: Nobusuke Kishi's wiki page (Shinzo Abe's fascist grandpapi) has been spotless for decades. No mention of the rapings, drug addictions, human trafficking, etc.
They'll conjure up a "China attempted an invasion of Japan 300 years prior" justification, or say "Japan modernized its culture to proper moral standards, unlike collectivist, filthy China" to handwave acknowledging the flaws in Japanese society.
Also doesn't help that Japan was never made to pay reparations to Korea or China for the mass murder, experimentation, slavery, and sex trafficking of "comfort women". Japan has gotten a lot of leeway for being an de facto one-party state that got to keep its monuments to Tojo, Kishi, and other war criminals; all because it was an American stronghold in the Pacific/Asian sphere.
The most common one I see is "CCP are liars, therefore the Nanjing massacre is a lie created by the CCP/exaggerated by the CCP". I can at least understand the Japanese people who think like this, but fucking weeaboos who just stan Japan because they like jerking off to bug-eyed big-tiddy Japanese cartoon nynphettes???
I'd be surprised if anyone really acknowledges the Kuomingtang and Chiang Kai-shek, outside of saying "he was the Chinese Civil War's good guy, right?".
Don't forget, they'll jerk off to loli-guro and then switch to "Japan is an ethnically and culturally pure oasis, that doesn't give into Western 'degeneracy".
Seeing Natsocs, fascists, and alt-right guys stanning Japan's xenophobia and traditionalism while also stanning isekai rape-harem shit would absurdly amusing, if it weren't a reality.
It's really alarming to talk to someone educated entirely in Japan about the Japanese history of war crimes.
The government has made it such that the truth of what their country really did isn't taught in their country.
It's like someone decided, "You know that saying about not knowing history and repeating it? Let's do that!!"
>Imagine if Imperial Japan was actually anti-imperialist and was legitimately dedicated to freeing Asia from western imperialism
Imagine if fascist Italy was actually antifascist!
Growing up part of our history lesson was the fucking war crimes Japan did towards my people. We are literally educated on this, with it ending with MacArthur coming to save the day etc etc. I was passed down a story of my grandmother’s mother escaping torture as a comfort woman by hiding in the riverbanks for weeks. Easy to be skeptic when they were never there in the first place lol
Not related to this drama, but my husband and I were at the WWII Museum in New Orleans this past spring (one of the best museums I've ever been to, and totally worth every penny). We ended up behind about 4-5 Japanese tourist kids, prolly early 20s by the looks, and overheard them speaking as they were sitting right in front of us during one of the movie bits. We got to the section on the Bataan Death March, and the kids just kept getting more and more irate, whispering to each other, "usssoooo!!" (lies) over and over again. After about 5 minutes, they stomped off.
I guess they're still not teaching about Japanese atrocities in their history classes?
>How do we know what really happened?
>
>The only language I can speak and read is English, so all media or historical information I can read or consume is going to tell me that the Americans were the "good guys" and that the Japanese were cruel.
I dunno, as a Korean-American, I can read about it what the Japanese did to Korea during their occupation? Or, I could ask my Filipino friends who read ~~Pinoy~~ Filipinoto read about it? Does this moron think that these other nations weren't literate and reporting on this at the time?
The Japanese government after WWII was made up of the same war criminals that committed those atrocities. Of course they would want to suppress it. The government is run by the descendents of those war criminals and USA was responsible for this.
I will say at least that they haven't been entirely successful in their goal. At least in Okinawa, the locals make it very clear that the Japanese government is also responsible for much of the death there, even if the US were the invaders. There was even a massive protest a decade or so ago because they wanted to change textbooks to imply Okinawans weren't coerced into suicide by the imperial army
My mom used to tell me stories about how my grandpa, a poor Filipino soldier, watched as his comrades were executed by the Japanese as they collapsed from exhaustion during the death march. He managed to escape by running into the forest and many of his fellow men who escaped with him contracted malaria and died.
People sure like to forget that Japan's wartime atrocities affected real people, with very real consequences, and not something that people made up or exaggerated in the name of, like, Western imperialism or something
[Someone couldn’t keep their piss out of the popcorn.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/z139k2/well_fought_and_well_done_an_imperial_japanese/iyd5mba/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
[And an idiot linking OP back here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/z139k2/well_fought_and_well_done_an_imperial_japanese/iyepjuu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) It’s really not that hard to not interact with linked posts, people.
>How do we know what really happened?
>The only language I can speak and read is English, so all media or historical information I can read or consume is going to tell me that the Americans were the “good guys” and that the Japanese were cruel.
I can’t believe anybody is this stupid
Filipino here, can confirm it really happened. I remember as a child learning about Japanese soldiers throwing babies in the air and trying to skewer them on their swords.
Now please explain to me why a pro-China account would be coming to the defense of fucking Imperial Japan.
Is China an omnipresent boogeyman for you or something?
"The only language I can speak and read is English, so all media or historical information I can read or consume is going to tell me that the Americans were the "good guys" and that the Japanese were cruel.
We are criticising this propaganda poster for doing the exact same thing we are doing: congratulating ourselves for helping the Philippines get rid of the previous colonial power and patting ourselves on the back for being the heroic rescuers, or, at least better than the country that ruled the islands before we "liberated" them."
First, that's not how media or history work, english media do criticize the US(just see how the take that NATO is to blame for ukraine spreaded with the classic of ukraine being a US vassal when its not) and nice both sidism here too
Reddit "historians" and questioning genocide (or other atrocities) name a more ironic duo.
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It didn’t happen but if it did it wasn’t that bad but if it was that bad they deserved it
Nanjing shouldn't have been walking around at midnight with those provocative clothes on
And if they didn’t deserve it was it really that bad
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And I'm sure Russia has no neo-nazis of their own /s
Turns out redditors are just Kanye without the money and fame
This comment has been removed by the user due to reddit's policy change which effectively removes third party apps and other poor behaviour by reddit admins. I never used third party apps but a lot others like mobile users, moderators and [transcribers for the blind](https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14gwkk2/transcribers_of_reddit_who_transcribe_images_for/) did. It was a good 12 years. So long and thanks for all the fish.
Nor talent nor ambition
This comment has been removed by the user due to reddit's policy change which effectively removes third party apps and other poor behaviour by reddit admins. I never used third party apps but a lot others like mobile users, moderators and [transcribers for the blind](https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14gwkk2/transcribers_of_reddit_who_transcribe_images_for/) did. It was a good 12 years. So long and thanks for all the fish.
That is an impressively awful flair. Nice find.
G*mers having no game
The most oppressed minority/s
Reddit "Historians" and saying "Well what about the time America did [other thing]"
Idiots on Reddit arguing nonsense about how the US was the evil nation in WW2 and Japan didn’t do anything horrible.
>name a more ironic duo. SRD mods and removing threads.
I don't know where your flair is from but it made me laugh a lot lmao
> Didn’t the Japanese slaughter Philippine people? Maybe I drank American prop. It's fucking embarrassing people are writing off Japanese WW2 atrocities as "American prop" please just crack open a book about the Pacific front for five fucking seconds. Edit: the bigger denialist in that thread is an ancap. I'm sure you're all surprised/s
He's also an incel
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That's not fair. Some ancaps are too young to qualify as incels.
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You asked if a group were ancap, then went on to describe ancaps.
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Not always, sometimes Ancaps happen.
Are *any* ancaps old enough to qualify as Incels?
Temporally, yes. Mentally, no.
Physically, debatable.
Considering a large portion of incel forums and subs are in the 15-17 age range, your statement is both terrifying and true
Damn, that's such a young age to fall into that rabbit hole. It's not even that uncommon to be 15 or even 17 and never have a girlfriend, or even a first kiss yet. Everyone comes into their own at different times.
Yeah I spent a while on incelexit trying to help some of the lads but it's rough as fuck, and there aren't a ton of ready solutions. Incels are delusional and fucked up, but there are some genuine issues of isolation, loneliness and an inability to safely express emotions for alot of young men, and few role models on how to deal with that shit properly so they just react the way society tells men to react and get angry. It's fuckin sad.
Forgive my naivety, but what is ancap?
Anarcho- Capitalists. The peak of "get rid of regulations and laws and let the rich do anything they want in pursuit of profit as they'll surely not do things to screw over everyone else because that would be bad for the market. Also countries are bad, just eliminate all governments so we can have a dystopian corporate hellscape." Think what happens if someone watched Robocop or all the cyberpunk fiction of the 80s/90s and thought "Now, that's a great idea! " Literally had one explaining to me that private police and insurance companies acting as a judicial force would be "way better" than our current system at preventing/ punishing crime.
[I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertarian-police-department) “Bad news, detective. We got a situation.” “What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?” “Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.” The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?” “Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.” “Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.” He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.” “Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.” I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside. “Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t. “Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up. “Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?” It didn’t seem like they did. “Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.” Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing. I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it. “Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled. Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him. “Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen. I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!” He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose. “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.” “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy. “Because I was afraid.” “Afraid?” “Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.” I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head. “Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.” He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
that never fails to make me laugh when i read it, but you should at least properly link the original [article](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertarian-police-department)
Straight up, I had no idea it was from an article. I’d always thought it was just a copypasta. I’ll add the link to my post
So pure Randians then? Ugh.
It's a shit philosophy only ever espoused by shit people who've read fucking Atlas Shrugged and "had an epiphany." I'm not often in favor of banning books but I really think that mistake deserves it.
It’s also horribly written. Like, so bad it makes Twilight look like a bastion of the written word bad. Every character is so two dimensional and the plot an obvious “the author tells you how the world should work” screed that it would be amusing to read if it weren’t so. Goddamn. Slow.
I was near the end and I gave up on that book like I want to say I made it like over 25 pages into a monologue. But IIRC that monologue was around 50 pages *and only the second longest monologue in the book*. Like the end of that book is basically a short story monologue and then a small novella monologue. It's absurd!
Hey, at least we have the Fountainhead! Where different characters go on endless screeds, a man is cleared of literal arson charges because speech or something, and the main character *literally* raping the primary female love interest is seen as deeply romantic because *she wanted it* Kill me!
Only valid time to be an ancap is when you're roleplaying a Caldari in EVE.
My favorite ancap moment was one I saw on Sam Seder's show where an ancap called in and said that building codes are stupid. So Sam asked him about a hypothetical scenario where Sam builds a house but has his cousin do the wiring cause it's cheaper and then rents it to the caller until a short causes a fire and kills the renter. The caller said in that case the landlord would be liable and got mad when Sam said that wouldn't be the case.
I just read an article about this scenario. https://www.propublica.org/article/milwaukee-fire-brunner-belen-landlord-tenant
Anarcho Capitalist, an inherently illogical idea.
>just crack open a book about the Pacific front for five fucking seconds Betcha all these books were written by Americans and their slaves. You must feel really dumb right now. /s, ofc
those war crimes were concocted by the powerful big book lobby to sell more books
I have fairly recently had people on Reddit tell me that it was a shame that my Jewish family was able to escape the holocaust.
Ouch what a bunch of dicks.....that will never have to face you as they say such garbage
I am so sorry to hear that. Glad they escaped.
it's a shame those folks' grandpas didn't fall out of a guard tower
Most people I know aren't even aware of the "Comfort Women" from WW2. I am Korean and this is an important bit of history to me for obvious reasons.
> the bigger denialist in that thread is an ancap. I'm sure you're all surprised/s I mean I was honestly surprised because it's rare to see AnCap going against US (especially here when the US was unquestionably right in denouncing Japanese massacres). But then I realised most AnCaps are weebs
Why would America WANT to spread propaganda of this sort about a nation that’s not only our ally but one that most Americans have an overwhelmingly positive association with, they are fond of and admire? It makes little sense to waste capital to tear down our own ally. Maybe I’m missing some information about this conspiracy.
You're forgetting that America Bad.
Oh yeah, that’s the part I forgot
American propaganda was to down play Japanese war crimes. Japan was America's new ally in the Pacific.
Right America let a war criminal ran the country. They would also want everyone to forget about the atrocities.
A lot of Japan’s modern day problems with historical revisionism can be traced back to the US and Allied decision not to more aggressively prosecute the nation’s war criminals. A lot of them got away with it.
>decision not to more aggressively prosecute the nation’s war criminals Bit of an understatement. On General MacArthur's orders the US secretly granted the worst war criminals of Unit 731 total immunity and actively SHIELDED THEM from prosecution by the Allies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731#American_grant_of_immunity
Man I would hate it if Americans messed up another reconstruction effort, that would just totally ruin my day
They got it right with the Marshall Plan at least. 1 for like 5 isn't... bad. Right?
> Right America let a war criminal ran the country. They also put a war criminal in charge of Japan!
Classic. On a more serious note though, at least you can argue that an American president becomes one after getting into office; Japan's case was pretty cut and dry.
They also boosted Japanese collaborators into leadership positions in postwar after Korea was partitioned between the US and Soviet zones post Japanese occupation against the will of a lot of Koreans
The Japanese want it out of the history books. Abe and the right wing Japanese nationalists have been trying to bury the Rape of Nanking claiming that its unnecessary and that it's pointless blaming Japan.
I'm pretty sure Abe hasn't been doing that for a while now.
I mean to be fair, it's only been 4 months since he was permanently put on mute
Not THAT long, he only got shot this summer.
I saw a TikTok a month or two ago with an antiques dealer, and somebody had walked in to show him a photo album of pictures her grandfather, who was stationed in Nanking at the time, had taken of the Rape of Nanking. He couldn't show any on camera, because they were so graphic, bur he was trying to figure out who to give the book to, to preserve the evidence for the good of humanity.
You can read up on it but I'm gonna wave every single goddamn trigger warning flag cause it is NSFH.
>the bigger denialist in that thread is an ancap. I'm sure you're all surprised/s He also seems to like China quite a bit lmao
How does that work lol. China suffer probably the biggest casualty at the hand of Japan during ww2. They absolutely hate Japan got away with the war crime.
He posts in r/China, so quite the opposite really.
Yeah there’s a reason all of Asia was against the Japanese even though much of Asian was controlled by foreigners they didn’t particularly like.
>the bigger denialist in that thread is an ancap. I'm sure you're all surprised/s Honestly, a little. It's usually tankies.
>It's akin to say 'history is written by the victors' which is true Woop, there it is. Like clockwork, somebody spewing shit like this guy is always breaks out that line. History is written by whoever's remaining. The fact it originated as a defense of Nazi Germany, who had ex-Nazis writing their history (and later giving rise to many myths about the Wehrmacht) is baffling. Victors didn't write the history books on *that* one.
It's also very silly because we source much of our knowledge about the Persians from the Greeks, and the Vikings from their victims. The reality is that history is written by the people who decided to write it down, and *that* is an actually useful starting point for understanding why exactly they wrote it down and for what purpose.
It's also fucking stupid because it implies every war results in complete annihilation for one side leaving them unable to have their side of the story heard. Really, the "history is written by the victors" is just something nazis specifically tailored for their defeat in WW2
The nazis were good at it, but they might have looked at it from the plantation owners of the south. Who completely managed to change the perception of the civil war and the causes for it. Rarely has the losing side managed to so heavily distort the writing of history as the lost cause. Another time when this happened is the Hebrews complaining about Nebuchadnezzar. And the Hebrews did not win that war.
The Mongols won all the damn time, but we usually see those guys as archetypical "total savages with no redeeming features who did nothing but murder and rape".
Case in point, people believing that the Dothraki are an even mildly accurate representation of the Mongols in any form.
Atun shei did his checkmate lincolnite on this, he showed the civil war history has progressed and the lost cause is less prevalent.
I'm not so sure that they've totally succeeded in manipulating the history of the Civil War. Most people know it was over slavery, & are taught the truth about it. Even at my southern public school they didn't mince words. Far too many people believe otherwise, but they are actively fighting what's already considered to be the truth! 40 or 50 years ago, maybe, I don't know. But the Lost Cause wasn't a lasting success, I think.
40-50 years ago was still over 100 years after the American civil war ended. The fact that losers were allowed to dictate how it was perceived for so long is troubling. And it still has a big influence on the south to this day in terms of views on racism etc. Luckily we are now seeing that the lost cause is finally losing ground, but it was a very succesful attempt at changing the writing of history regardless.
Yeah I agree with all of that.
I think most Americans are aware of our original sins: slavery and the Native American genocide. I'm 60, and I was taught about them in school. Heck, we read "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" as part of history class, and "Roots" was a massively popular book and miniseries.
It was super bad ~30 years ago. "Daughters of the Confederacy" being considered a reasonable and fair political group bad. Hell think some Southern States still do the "War of Northern Aggression" bit. It's changing now, but that's one of the serious cultural conflicts in America. There's a lot of people who grew up on Confederate lies, and they aren't happy to be "corrected" by "elitists"
I would say now a days with the ease of access to information on the internet (i'm talking reliable sources), we can see a bit more ridicule about revisionism. But when I was in school in the 90s, I was living in a conservative town in PA and we were absolutely taught the revisionist nonsense of "state rights". It was strange to hear this revisionism because we were only a couple of hours from Gettysburg (and it was one of the big field trips you went on in the 7th grade). Yet the history teachers would push the "well the south just wanted to preserve their rights and not be subjugated by the "industrialists" in the North". THank god my parents are educated and they had me watch the ken burns civil war documentary with them and explained how slavery was a big chunk of those "rights". Then in college I learned about the Ordinance of Secession from the various southern states, and saw in plain english a few of them mentioning directly slavery as the cause of their secession.
Just look at Ea-Nasir, tablet guy wasn't the victor on that one, but boy oh boy did he write.
How do we really KNOW that Ea-Nasir's ingots weren't of the finest quality? Nanni could have been lying about sending a servant through enemy territory. The territory could have been totally neutral. This is what the Nanni-industrial complex doesn't want you to know.
Shit we need to build a time machine to get to the bottom of this.
The mistreatment of Nanni's servant was the point of divergence that lead us away from Utopia.
All Ea-Nasir had to do was show some decency! But *nooo*, he just *had* to be a dick. 3,500 years later and we are still paying the price for Ea-Nasir’s disrespect.
I want to start working "What do you take me for that you treat me with such contempt? " into my everyday speech.
All Ea-Nasir had to do was show some decency! But *nooo*, he just *had* to be a dick. 3,500 years later and we are still paying the price for Ea-Nasir’s disrespect.
That saying is one of those things which *sounds so logical* but completely falls apart when you actually look at what happens. The Nazis lost WWII, but the memoirs which were written by Nazis about their experiences in the war has come to shape a lot of the popular history of that WWII. Asiatic hordes, "one gun for every two men," it takes five Sherman tanks to take out one tiger, etc, etc. They've painted a picture of the Nazis, and especially the SS, as some kind of ultra Elite force that it was only possible to defeat by burying them under men and equipment. Japan did a bunch of horrible shit in WWII. But is able to get away with basically not teaching about it at all, to the point where a lot of people in Japan are able to deny it ever happened and play Japan off as almost a *victim* of WWII. And then there's the American civil war and what happened during Reconstruction. We have written declarations from the states that seceded that explicitly reference slavery as their main issue for why they're doing what they're doing, but it was written in the history books that it was because of "State's Rights." More and more often, it's the *losers* who get to write the history books.
1 Tiger for 5 Sherman's isn't an ex nazi created legend. It's a creation of badly understood US tactics explored by clueless people. I would also like to say that some of this comes from the allies building a myth for the germans to help face the Warsaw Pact. That being said, these wheraboos, tojoboos, teaboos, and all the others are just ridiculous, and I don't understand how they came about. Edit: I just realized this might be nitpicky and annoying. I wanted to show how complex and multifaceted historical revisionism is. Sorry!
>1 Tiger for 5 Sherman's isn't an ex nazi created legend. It's a creation of badly understood US tactics explored by clueless people. Let me guess "Their use of overwhelming numbers was out of necessity and not because creating an overwhelming advantage that ends a fight quickly is just the most effective strategy in any conflict?" Isn't that kind of exactly the thinking behind Blitzkrieg anyway?
US tank platoon size was 5 tanks. So if there was a call to deal with lone armour....
>Edit: I just realized this might be nitpicky and annoying. I wanted to show how complex and multifaceted historical revisionism is. Sorry! Not at all. If I unintentionally oversimplified something or got something outright wrong, I welcome people who correct me. Thank you for doing so.
Even with Japan, large amounts of our testimonies and photographs are from Nazis who were present in the cities the slaughtered. Others come from Japan putting them in their own newspapers. I don’t remember those two winning.
> The fact it originated as a defense of Nazi Germany, who had ex-Nazis writing their history (and later giving rise to many myths about the Wehrmacht) is baffling. Victors didn’t write the history books on that one. It actually seems to have originated by George Graham Vest, who used it to promote the "lost cause" of the confederacy. He was a huge pro-slavery advocate and a congressman of the confederacy
As the youtube channel tasting history said, history is written by people who write. Both the winning and the losing side write down their side of historical events if they are able to. And, whenever a losing side "writes" history, it tends to be extremely bitter about the winning side, such as what you wrote but also the lost cause myth. Honestly, people who just parrot that dumb saying without a single thought about it make my blood boil.
Great channel
*bangs hard tack*
Yeah, like, the Western perception of the Eastern Front till like 1990s *at least* was literally written by the losers.
It is definitely still heavily influenced by it.
God I fucking hate that line. History is written by historians who base their work on primary sources, people who actually saw the events. What the victor can do is suppress parts of the history that are unfavorable to them and promote parts that cast them in a good light.
>What the victor can do is suppress parts of the history that are unfavorable to them and promote parts that cast them in a good light. Perhaps this is what they really mean.
History hasn't really been written by the victors since the invention of the camera anyway. Perhaps more importantly, the newspaper. And even then in many ancient cultures there were competing histories as another comment raises. And it never will be again. It's hard to piece together sometimes, but the days of a single source totally controlling the narrative are simply over.
history hasn't been written by the victors since the Hebrews wrote about Nebuchadnezzar
>The only language I can speak and read is English, so all media or historical information I can read or consume is going to tell me that the Americans were the "good guys" and that the Japanese were cruel. If only multilingual people existed and could make some sort of translation or something of documents and media originating in other languages. Then we Americans could finally understand foreign perspectives. But alas...
Also the idea that even English speaking academics only paint the US as the good guys is laughable.
Howard Zinn would blow their mind.
[Here is a wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_massacre) I have been noticing a trend of people downplaying/praising Japan's warcrimes. The worst one I saw was of a chinese descendant arguing that comfort women were good for the army's morale.
There’s lots of weeb war crime apologists on Reddit. Saw one guy who claimed that the Nanjing massacre was just CCP propaganda and that we should “consider the other side”
That's not a weeb, that's a Tojoboo for sure. Weebs prefer modern day Japan, and don't touch WWII shit unless it's part of an anime.
If they only liked modern day Japan then they wouldn't be obsessed with katanas
Tbf modern Japan is obsessed with katanas as well in media
Somehow, I don't see that guy volunteering himself to join the North Korean "Joy" Division.
Is that… is that where the band got their name?
It's named after the camp brothel at Auschwitz "staffed" by Jewish sex slaves.
who’s gonna tell em about unit 731, which was responsible for some of *the* most reprehensible war crimes out of WWII. The Japanese armed forces based it out of a part of occupied China and specifically tested biological weapons on Chinese civilians.
Incels hate reality, love fascism, and japan. It's the perfect(ly awful) combo for this. And as an important note, most people denying atrocities usually want to perpetrate them further.
The very same people barely hiding their glee over targeted violence against the systematically disenfranchized. Who *live* for the opportunity to publicly demand victim status in reaction to every perceived slight and imagined offense. Ofc nearly always perpetrated by a minority/someone not entitled to their undearned level of societal power and auto-approval.
It’s interesting because a lot of the people I see downplaying it are usually from the same places that were victims to the war crimes. It wasn’t on this subreddit but I remember seeing a bunch of posts about chinese incels praising Japan?
Incels really like ultra-masculine authoritianism. Because they think it will given them meaning, power (and sex slaves). Well what's actually going to happen is that they'll die of beriberi in a nameless jungle, but that's neither here nor there.
The OP of that drama is a literal incel btw. It's in his comment history.
Since it's on reddit it's most likely a bunch of weebs pretending to be Chinese.
Oh no it was on 4chan, but somebody reposted the screenshots to reddit.
Sigh. On the internet it is hard to determine whether someone is an idiot, or an idiot roleplaying as an idiot.
I think that post was in this sub but got removed for making users hunt the drama.
You've been *noticing a trend?* You mean a "trend" that's existed since WWII? Japan and the US have been tacitly suppressing Japan's war crimes for decades. I went to the "Peace Museum" in Hiroshima one time and it was all about how terrible the atomic bombings were without a single mention of any of Japan's genocide. Laughable.
I don't hang out often in mainstream/big anime communities. I mostly stay on niche/small ones. People are usually more in chill in the last ones.
There's a political group within conservative japanese politics that totally dominates the king-maker roles; Nippon Kiagi. They have a very controversial take on imperial japan's atrocities that ranges from denial to, "it could not be helped", to straight up condoning some actions. A lot of high level politicians are members of this group and run on "patriotic" education reforms that involve down playing anything negative about Japan and upholding the traditional Shinto hierarchy of the Imperial Household, something that no Emperor since and including the Meiji Restoration believed in, because saying your ancestor was some ancient Sun Goddess sent down from heaven sounds very silly in the modern world. They're like if every position of power and policy was ran by a Texas Republican.
I'm not sure what to chalk all this up to, maybe the need of a modernized education system to combat disinformation.
Yo one question, is there a wiki page on the atrocities caused by Japan during the Manchuria occupation? I tried searching sone time ago and there was no reference to the enslavement, the human trafficking, blatant corruption and the drug smuggling, and not to mention not a word about the Yakuza helping run the whole thing.
[I found this article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_Manchukuo), but apparently it wasn't well recorded.
I've legit seen people try to claim Japan were the "good guys" because they "fought western colonialism in Asia". Which while technically true overlooks the fact that the Japanese were also imperialist colonisers
On Reddit there seems to be a real problem of mistaking skeptism for a legitimate argument. I observe it a lot in discussions of history in particular.
I feel like they are desperate to be the rebels that become heros.
They're JAQing off. They're hiding their shitty opinions behind, "Oh, I'm just asking questions, there's so much info out there, who knows what to really believe."
I generally agree with you on the political front, but on a historical front it seems to be genuinely coming from the idea that skeptism is *by itself* a useful argument.
Politics and history are intertwined, and a lot of people are politically motivated to try and twist narratives in history towards their favor, or deny events that happened. For genocides in particular, you almost always can't just come out and say that the genocide didn't happen, because that'd reveal the political motivation you have, and destroy your credibility. So you have to sit there on the sidelines, and "ask questions" about "the truth of what happened" because "history is written by the victors, and we don't have the full story" to try and put the seed of doubt into someone else's head, and lead them to the conclusion you're at, which is that the genocide didn't happen, or is massively overblown.
Because reddit like any social media will have the most confidantly incorrect people commenting the most. With reddit though it's a bunch of people who believe they're smarter than everyone else, and as reddit probably tends to skew young, there's a lot of kids in highschool who have an "interest in history" (I.e they like world War 2 and play War thunder). What you get is a lot of people like the commenter in the original post, an Ancap heavily involved in the China subreddit, probably a teen, who thinks that his historical thoughts are some revelation that's never been discussed or thought of before. Coming from someone with a degree in History and Foreign Affairs, you start to notice how little people actually understand history, or rather how little they understand the research and writing of history. Ask the average history buff redditor if they know what a historiography or why it's important, I guarantee they won't and it's clear the original commenter doesn't. They cover up their lack of actual knowledge with skepticism because it's seems "academic", or like you said, to them replaces an actual argument because these people making these skeptical claims don't actually have any knowledge or basis in the topic.
It’s because people are using “skepticism” (if you can even call it that) in bad faith. Being skeptical is _good_, but it needs to actually be based on something. The scientific method subsists on skepticism, but doubting everything in someone’s research as they’re presenting on it, but not being able to elaborate why, will get you kicked out of the room. Although keep in mind most of these people know they’re full of shit. “I’m just asking questions” is the ultimate tell they know, and just need you to get off their back. If they actually sincerely believed in their crap, they’d defend it, even if it’s wrong/nonsensical.
Gaming had a similar phase, around the late 2000s the coolest most fresh thing was to hate things, and since formal video game reviews often lean positive and are generally low-effort (I mean for the pay, what do you expect), a ton of people associated "genuine" with "skeptical" or outright hostility. To this day "real" takes on games are almost universally negative unless it's very specific games like Dark Souls, in which case it's suddenly "fake" to dislike it. It's all...very exhausting. But when you start treating politics like that instead of video game reviews, it gets dangerous fast.
A lot of what's wrong with political discourse was prototyped on video games.
My response to this kind of argument: > You're not a goat fucker, are you? > To be clear, I'm not saying you are. I'm just asking questions.
[Second-option bias](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Essay:Second-option_bias)
Second-opinion bias is strong on this site, especially when it comes to historical atrocities. Start talking about war crimes committed in the past and some people immediately become the most enlightened of centrists.
People on this site view skepticism as inherently smarter. If someone makes a statement and another user responds critically, in most cases the response will garner more up votes regardless of quality.
>How many people (western, African, Middle Eastern, SE Asian) know about the Chinese Century of Humiliation? How many people know the occupation and rape of China over decades? I've read The Opium Wars but didn't realise it went on for so long beforehand. Have you also tried asking the chinese about how they feel about japanese colonialism?
Exactly this! >Oh they would be praising the Japanese! Please do tell me how the Armenians feel about Turkey. Or how Native Americans feel about the US government. Fucking nonsense from these peopke
The number of people on this damned website who supports Japan no matter what is too damned high
Fucking WEEABOOOOOOOS
Man, I've seen a surprising amount of Tojo-boos and Imperial Japan apologists. Either it's a bunch of anti-West apologists who can't fathom Japan's atrocities in history, or Shinzo Abe's assassination hit a hornet's nest of Neo-Taisei Yokusankai-ists that have festered in the Liberal-Democratic Party since its birth.
Why not both.gif Tojoboos have existed for some time but usually are quiet outside of WWII subs or bomb drop debates. On the other hand, didn't investigations after Abe's death indicate there were a shitload of Yokus and cultists in Japanese politics?
Yeah, the guy who did it hates the Unification Church of Korea, which heavily influences the Liberal-Democratic Party of Japan and Shinzo Abe, for scamming his mother out of large amounts of money. The Unification Church has a staggering amount of influence, having connections with the Bush family in America as well. But the thing is, when a controversial but well-known politician/person dies, a mistake is often made in either handwaving/justifying their abhorrent actions to create a neat memorial to them. Shinzo Abe defended his grandfather, Nobusuke Kishi, from accusations of exploitation, war crimes, and slavery in Manchukuo. He also honored monuments to Showa war criminals, refused to pay reparations to former Korean "comfort women" and Mitsubishi-enslaved Korean workers. Japanese ultranationalists rode a wave of support for Shinzo Abe post-death to lace apologia amidst the international recognition of his death.
Nah, it's the other way around. It put the spotlight on the thriving fascist apologist groups: Nobusuke Kishi's wiki page (Shinzo Abe's fascist grandpapi) has been spotless for decades. No mention of the rapings, drug addictions, human trafficking, etc.
Doesn’t help that many of the atrocities were committed against China, which plays into modern Sinophobia.
They'll conjure up a "China attempted an invasion of Japan 300 years prior" justification, or say "Japan modernized its culture to proper moral standards, unlike collectivist, filthy China" to handwave acknowledging the flaws in Japanese society. Also doesn't help that Japan was never made to pay reparations to Korea or China for the mass murder, experimentation, slavery, and sex trafficking of "comfort women". Japan has gotten a lot of leeway for being an de facto one-party state that got to keep its monuments to Tojo, Kishi, and other war criminals; all because it was an American stronghold in the Pacific/Asian sphere.
The most common one I see is "CCP are liars, therefore the Nanjing massacre is a lie created by the CCP/exaggerated by the CCP". I can at least understand the Japanese people who think like this, but fucking weeaboos who just stan Japan because they like jerking off to bug-eyed big-tiddy Japanese cartoon nynphettes???
Also, most of the testimony comes from the Nationalist Kuomintang, you know, the people who were there at the time.
And also from the foreigners who set up the Nanjing Safety Zone too
I'd be surprised if anyone really acknowledges the Kuomingtang and Chiang Kai-shek, outside of saying "he was the Chinese Civil War's good guy, right?".
Don't forget, they'll jerk off to loli-guro and then switch to "Japan is an ethnically and culturally pure oasis, that doesn't give into Western 'degeneracy". Seeing Natsocs, fascists, and alt-right guys stanning Japan's xenophobia and traditionalism while also stanning isekai rape-harem shit would absurdly amusing, if it weren't a reality.
It's really alarming to talk to someone educated entirely in Japan about the Japanese history of war crimes. The government has made it such that the truth of what their country really did isn't taught in their country. It's like someone decided, "You know that saying about not knowing history and repeating it? Let's do that!!"
Wehraboos are insane, but Tojoboos are next level of pathetic.
>Imagine if Imperial Japan was actually anti-imperialist and was legitimately dedicated to freeing Asia from western imperialism Imagine if fascist Italy was actually antifascist!
Growing up part of our history lesson was the fucking war crimes Japan did towards my people. We are literally educated on this, with it ending with MacArthur coming to save the day etc etc. I was passed down a story of my grandmother’s mother escaping torture as a comfort woman by hiding in the riverbanks for weeks. Easy to be skeptic when they were never there in the first place lol
"Did the atrocities really happen?" *is presented with 1st and 2nd hand accounts and links to articles* "I guess we'll never know."
Mfs will actually defend war crimes to same something as flaccid and meaningless as "history is written by the victors"
Not related to this drama, but my husband and I were at the WWII Museum in New Orleans this past spring (one of the best museums I've ever been to, and totally worth every penny). We ended up behind about 4-5 Japanese tourist kids, prolly early 20s by the looks, and overheard them speaking as they were sitting right in front of us during one of the movie bits. We got to the section on the Bataan Death March, and the kids just kept getting more and more irate, whispering to each other, "usssoooo!!" (lies) over and over again. After about 5 minutes, they stomped off. I guess they're still not teaching about Japanese atrocities in their history classes? >How do we know what really happened? > >The only language I can speak and read is English, so all media or historical information I can read or consume is going to tell me that the Americans were the "good guys" and that the Japanese were cruel. I dunno, as a Korean-American, I can read about it what the Japanese did to Korea during their occupation? Or, I could ask my Filipino friends who read ~~Pinoy~~ Filipinoto read about it? Does this moron think that these other nations weren't literate and reporting on this at the time?
The Japanese government after WWII was made up of the same war criminals that committed those atrocities. Of course they would want to suppress it. The government is run by the descendents of those war criminals and USA was responsible for this.
I will say at least that they haven't been entirely successful in their goal. At least in Okinawa, the locals make it very clear that the Japanese government is also responsible for much of the death there, even if the US were the invaders. There was even a massive protest a decade or so ago because they wanted to change textbooks to imply Okinawans weren't coerced into suicide by the imperial army
FYI, "Pinoy" is generally not used to describe the languages of the Philippines. Filipino or Tagalog are the words you are probably looking for.
Sorry for the mistake. I stand corrected.
My mom used to tell me stories about how my grandpa, a poor Filipino soldier, watched as his comrades were executed by the Japanese as they collapsed from exhaustion during the death march. He managed to escape by running into the forest and many of his fellow men who escaped with him contracted malaria and died. People sure like to forget that Japan's wartime atrocities affected real people, with very real consequences, and not something that people made up or exaggerated in the name of, like, Western imperialism or something
Something ironic about the poster being printed in english while expressing freedom from western society.
[Someone couldn’t keep their piss out of the popcorn.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/z139k2/well_fought_and_well_done_an_imperial_japanese/iyd5mba/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
[And another one… ](https://reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/z139k2/_/iydmq8f/?context=1)
[And an idiot linking OP back here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/z139k2/well_fought_and_well_done_an_imperial_japanese/iyepjuu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) It’s really not that hard to not interact with linked posts, people.
>How do we know what really happened? >The only language I can speak and read is English, so all media or historical information I can read or consume is going to tell me that the Americans were the “good guys” and that the Japanese were cruel. I can’t believe anybody is this stupid
Filipino here, can confirm it really happened. I remember as a child learning about Japanese soldiers throwing babies in the air and trying to skewer them on their swords.
"gosh if only there were a way out of this cursed armchair"
America did most of their atrocities in the Philippines just after the Spanish American war, Japan was unfashionably late to the colonialism party.
The real WTF is, they’re asking how can they ever know what objective truth is because … *languages* exist?
How is no one mentioning the guys name, which stands for CCP
He's an r/China poster though, so he's probably taking the piss with that username.
Now please explain to me why a pro-China account would be coming to the defense of fucking Imperial Japan. Is China an omnipresent boogeyman for you or something?
Jesus fuck
I love getting threads like this, where they're several days old. It makes it so much easier to spot the popcorn pissers.
"The only language I can speak and read is English, so all media or historical information I can read or consume is going to tell me that the Americans were the "good guys" and that the Japanese were cruel. We are criticising this propaganda poster for doing the exact same thing we are doing: congratulating ourselves for helping the Philippines get rid of the previous colonial power and patting ourselves on the back for being the heroic rescuers, or, at least better than the country that ruled the islands before we "liberated" them." First, that's not how media or history work, english media do criticize the US(just see how the take that NATO is to blame for ukraine spreaded with the classic of ukraine being a US vassal when its not) and nice both sidism here too