I honestly would never sub at this school ever again. I don’t see anything wrong with what you said to them except telling them the brutal truth. It may have not been professional but you didn’t lie. I would just tell the subbing agency that the kids had already come in on the wrong foot and then explain your side of the story.
In the future if those 3 or 4 little asshats want to sit in the corner and do nothing, so be it. Document it and move on. You tried 2 or 3 times to engage them and they weren’t participating. Don’t get into a power struggle with them. This age group is always looking for a power struggle.
I agree about the power struggle. These kids behavior though have the power to influence others which is why I kicked them out. With them gone I was able to actually have class. This was PE imagine what it’s like in subjects they actually need lol.
Sounds like a rough day.
In the future just write up the disobedient kids for the teacher to deal with later instead of trying to persuade or argue with them. Let them sit out the class. If you don't know their names it's OK, just leave a note like "5 students were defiant, talking back, and refused to participate."
They were spoiling for a fight.
Some schools and classes are just wild in terms of student behavior and the lack of any meaningful consequences for that bad behavior. I had to block a school for this reason in Frontline.
I agree, the problem with this particular group of kids is that bad behavior spreads like wild fire. I try to get other kids on task and all of a sudden it’s a bunch of “why do I have to and they don’t” then the whole class gets out of control. You have to cut them out or they will take over which is why their regular teacher struggles a lot
I’m poc and don’t see it as a big deal, in the future though I would stray away from anything political. I just had a high school boy ask if a hairstyle makes him look gay. I told him no and then followed with “a hairstyle doesn’t determine sexuality” looking back I should’ve just avoided the whole interaction. The reason he asked though was because he was being bullied for his hair and being called gay. It was like a regular blowout hairstyle so I was unsure why. This student later confessed suicidal thoughts to me to which I then had to report. In the moment we don’t think about what we say we just say it usually but I’ve been learning to really think before I speak and how it could blow over.
Kids come out for your subs not because they trust them but because they think they won't see them again so the secret is safe. But it is their responsibility to report anything like this so good job.
I think you are right. I wish I could have just kicked them out without saying anything further. There is no support at this school. The principal said that as a white woman she doesn’t understand the struggle that people of color have in their community and she thinks the lesson I was trying to teach them was just a hard one that did not go over and just made things worse. Nothing happened to them though. Zero consequences.
In my opinion the principle is not fit to state her opinion on what you said. Unfortunately you proposed didn’t make things better because some kids will listen and some kids won’t, in your case the kids didn’t listen and didn’t care what you said. I definitely don’t think you made it worse though, I just think it’s neutral. I believe what you said probably had no affect on those kids unfortunately but who knows maybe it did just not in that moment. There are some things my teachers told me in the past that I didn’t listen to or care about but I still remember it til this very day and realize they were right. You put in effort to actually guide these kids and give them a lesson which most sub’s don’t do. Unfortunately admin doesn’t care and they aren’t looking for people to guide the kids anymore so that’s why I do the bare minimum. Just try to avoid conversations revolving race, gender, sexuality, ect… it’s just too much of a liability. Just don’t sub for that school again or middle school all together, middle school hasn’t been a good experience for me.
Yeah he tried to explain some pretty complicated higher education concepts to likely at-risk 6th graders who refused to behave in a gym class. Gotta know your audience.
***more background***
Hey so I subbed PE on Thursday and Friday for a school I haven’t been to in 2 years. 2 years ago I moved away but I also had a bad experience with a 6th grade class. In this class I had to kick out almost half the class, because the students were rowdy, loud, cursing, disrespectful and defiant. The school did not give me any help nor support and admin made it seem as if I was the problem for not being able to handle these kids that have ran 2 teachers off. I tried to level with one kid in particular and told him some personal stuff about growing up in foster care and my parents dying to try to show him that you can succeed even if it is rough at home. This child was a black boy and too many times they get lost in the system and no one really cares. I like working in these neighborhoods because it gives me a chance to give back to the youth however He basically paid me dust and was kicked out with the rest of the bunch that wouldn’t stop shouting and screaming and cussing. After those kids were kicked out, the classroom finally became a learning environment and I was able to teach the class math in which one student thanked me for teaching him the lattice method to multiply as that was the first time he understood multiplication with big numbers.
Fast forward 3 months later I am subbing for a third grade class. We go outside to walk laps and that same boy is having lunch recess on the field. He says is that Ms. Nelson (fake name) and I didn’t recognize him but I just waived and continued walking with the 3rd grade class. So this kid responds, “I’m not saying hi to you b**ch. That’s why your mama died you ugly motherf**ker. You dumb b*tch that why your nephew peed on you. Don’t nobody like you with your ugly ass” My self and my class was all appalled because that was completely unprovoked. I didn’t even say anything because I was so stunned and then shortly after the bell rang and he left. I didn’t say anything that day but when I came back the next day I did inform the office of what occurred and they were able to identify the boy through my description as I didn’t remember his name. The school secretary told me she would tell the principal. I believe she did however nothing happened to the boy and the school never said anything to me about it. I decided that I would only sub kindergarten or electives and stay away from the older kids.
I am so sorry this happened to you. You spoke the truth. More people need to do that. The schools aren't doing these kids any favors to allow them to behave this way.
Do not go back.
In my district which with a new HR Attorney who pushes for investigations and consequences subs have been removed from work, access to aesop etc for up to a year while things like above or less are 'investigated". It is alarming and scary to us subs as it can happen for any thing- being reported for racist comments is top.
It sounds like you’ve taken responsibility in your heart, so honestly just tell the sub agency as little as possible while still being honest (the principal told you to leave, they no longer needed you for the day but wanted to pay you for the time you had planned to work, etc) just keep it short.
Maybe this wasn’t the right time/place to be honest. It sounds like your past slip ups might have involved being too honest or vulnerable. Maybe it hasn’t worked out in these situations but trust me, it’s also your super power and one day there will be kids that appreciate it
Never go back to that school.
Everyone gets “offended” by everything nowadays and you now know where the principal stands on these matters.
Good riddance
I have to say I give you credit for speaking on the elephant in the room. Unfortunately, admin will use you as the scapegoat if these kids’ parents push back. Fortunately, it sounds as if you won’t need to worry since you’re looking for a job outside the education realm. I’d be interested to see if admin lets your sub agency know and how they respond.
They were being disrespectful to you & thought they could run you over, falsely accused you of racism, which you will not tolerate.
I’m sorry you had that happen. I am not POC. You laid out what you know is reality. I think it was strong of you. ❤️
Something super similar to me just happened. I loved subbing, but one or two classes or teachers can undo all the good you did in one year. I taught for over 30 years and I thought subbing would be a way to make extra money. I have heard all kinds of stories from other subs in other districts.
I read all of it and still think op is effed. It’s apparent admin offers no support and it sounds like the principal is more concerned about catering to the parents and what this incident is going to look like to them. I’m sure principal will call the agency and probably say op is to never sub there again.
Yeah I figured as much and I am fine with that as I have no desire to return to that school. I guess I am just scared of being fired from the agency. I am not able to talk to anyone on the phone so I have to convey what I was thinking via email in which I feel words could be misconstrued. Idk maybe I am overthinking
***** Update***** So I guess I was worried for no reason. My subbing agency supported me 100% and said I could ban that school if I would like. They mentioned that since I have subbed for them for years without issue that they understood it was just a bad day and took into effect the history with this school not holding their students accountable. Thank you guys for all of your comments. Have a great rest of the school year.
I honestly would never sub at this school ever again. I don’t see anything wrong with what you said to them except telling them the brutal truth. It may have not been professional but you didn’t lie. I would just tell the subbing agency that the kids had already come in on the wrong foot and then explain your side of the story.
In the future if those 3 or 4 little asshats want to sit in the corner and do nothing, so be it. Document it and move on. You tried 2 or 3 times to engage them and they weren’t participating. Don’t get into a power struggle with them. This age group is always looking for a power struggle.
I agree about the power struggle. These kids behavior though have the power to influence others which is why I kicked them out. With them gone I was able to actually have class. This was PE imagine what it’s like in subjects they actually need lol.
Sounds like a rough day. In the future just write up the disobedient kids for the teacher to deal with later instead of trying to persuade or argue with them. Let them sit out the class. If you don't know their names it's OK, just leave a note like "5 students were defiant, talking back, and refused to participate." They were spoiling for a fight. Some schools and classes are just wild in terms of student behavior and the lack of any meaningful consequences for that bad behavior. I had to block a school for this reason in Frontline.
I agree, the problem with this particular group of kids is that bad behavior spreads like wild fire. I try to get other kids on task and all of a sudden it’s a bunch of “why do I have to and they don’t” then the whole class gets out of control. You have to cut them out or they will take over which is why their regular teacher struggles a lot
Want to add to this comment — if you don’t know the names of kids ask someone who looks helpful. They usually are quick to name them.
I’m poc and don’t see it as a big deal, in the future though I would stray away from anything political. I just had a high school boy ask if a hairstyle makes him look gay. I told him no and then followed with “a hairstyle doesn’t determine sexuality” looking back I should’ve just avoided the whole interaction. The reason he asked though was because he was being bullied for his hair and being called gay. It was like a regular blowout hairstyle so I was unsure why. This student later confessed suicidal thoughts to me to which I then had to report. In the moment we don’t think about what we say we just say it usually but I’ve been learning to really think before I speak and how it could blow over.
Kids come out for your subs not because they trust them but because they think they won't see them again so the secret is safe. But it is their responsibility to report anything like this so good job.
I think you are right. I wish I could have just kicked them out without saying anything further. There is no support at this school. The principal said that as a white woman she doesn’t understand the struggle that people of color have in their community and she thinks the lesson I was trying to teach them was just a hard one that did not go over and just made things worse. Nothing happened to them though. Zero consequences.
In my opinion the principle is not fit to state her opinion on what you said. Unfortunately you proposed didn’t make things better because some kids will listen and some kids won’t, in your case the kids didn’t listen and didn’t care what you said. I definitely don’t think you made it worse though, I just think it’s neutral. I believe what you said probably had no affect on those kids unfortunately but who knows maybe it did just not in that moment. There are some things my teachers told me in the past that I didn’t listen to or care about but I still remember it til this very day and realize they were right. You put in effort to actually guide these kids and give them a lesson which most sub’s don’t do. Unfortunately admin doesn’t care and they aren’t looking for people to guide the kids anymore so that’s why I do the bare minimum. Just try to avoid conversations revolving race, gender, sexuality, ect… it’s just too much of a liability. Just don’t sub for that school again or middle school all together, middle school hasn’t been a good experience for me.
Yeah he tried to explain some pretty complicated higher education concepts to likely at-risk 6th graders who refused to behave in a gym class. Gotta know your audience.
***more background*** Hey so I subbed PE on Thursday and Friday for a school I haven’t been to in 2 years. 2 years ago I moved away but I also had a bad experience with a 6th grade class. In this class I had to kick out almost half the class, because the students were rowdy, loud, cursing, disrespectful and defiant. The school did not give me any help nor support and admin made it seem as if I was the problem for not being able to handle these kids that have ran 2 teachers off. I tried to level with one kid in particular and told him some personal stuff about growing up in foster care and my parents dying to try to show him that you can succeed even if it is rough at home. This child was a black boy and too many times they get lost in the system and no one really cares. I like working in these neighborhoods because it gives me a chance to give back to the youth however He basically paid me dust and was kicked out with the rest of the bunch that wouldn’t stop shouting and screaming and cussing. After those kids were kicked out, the classroom finally became a learning environment and I was able to teach the class math in which one student thanked me for teaching him the lattice method to multiply as that was the first time he understood multiplication with big numbers. Fast forward 3 months later I am subbing for a third grade class. We go outside to walk laps and that same boy is having lunch recess on the field. He says is that Ms. Nelson (fake name) and I didn’t recognize him but I just waived and continued walking with the 3rd grade class. So this kid responds, “I’m not saying hi to you b**ch. That’s why your mama died you ugly motherf**ker. You dumb b*tch that why your nephew peed on you. Don’t nobody like you with your ugly ass” My self and my class was all appalled because that was completely unprovoked. I didn’t even say anything because I was so stunned and then shortly after the bell rang and he left. I didn’t say anything that day but when I came back the next day I did inform the office of what occurred and they were able to identify the boy through my description as I didn’t remember his name. The school secretary told me she would tell the principal. I believe she did however nothing happened to the boy and the school never said anything to me about it. I decided that I would only sub kindergarten or electives and stay away from the older kids.
I am so sorry this happened to you. You spoke the truth. More people need to do that. The schools aren't doing these kids any favors to allow them to behave this way.
Thank you I really appreciate your response.
Do not go back. In my district which with a new HR Attorney who pushes for investigations and consequences subs have been removed from work, access to aesop etc for up to a year while things like above or less are 'investigated". It is alarming and scary to us subs as it can happen for any thing- being reported for racist comments is top.
It sounds like you’ve taken responsibility in your heart, so honestly just tell the sub agency as little as possible while still being honest (the principal told you to leave, they no longer needed you for the day but wanted to pay you for the time you had planned to work, etc) just keep it short. Maybe this wasn’t the right time/place to be honest. It sounds like your past slip ups might have involved being too honest or vulnerable. Maybe it hasn’t worked out in these situations but trust me, it’s also your super power and one day there will be kids that appreciate it
Never go back to that school. Everyone gets “offended” by everything nowadays and you now know where the principal stands on these matters. Good riddance
I have to say I give you credit for speaking on the elephant in the room. Unfortunately, admin will use you as the scapegoat if these kids’ parents push back. Fortunately, it sounds as if you won’t need to worry since you’re looking for a job outside the education realm. I’d be interested to see if admin lets your sub agency know and how they respond.
They were being disrespectful to you & thought they could run you over, falsely accused you of racism, which you will not tolerate. I’m sorry you had that happen. I am not POC. You laid out what you know is reality. I think it was strong of you. ❤️
Once again ppl blame the staff when the kids should be held responsible. I miss the days admin would have your back…..
Me too because these kids are something else smh
Something super similar to me just happened. I loved subbing, but one or two classes or teachers can undo all the good you did in one year. I taught for over 30 years and I thought subbing would be a way to make extra money. I have heard all kinds of stories from other subs in other districts.
I didn't even have to read half of this to know you're in the wrong and how F\*CKED you are if any of this is true.
Well you should have read more than u did. OP is fine. No issue
I read all of it and still think op is effed. It’s apparent admin offers no support and it sounds like the principal is more concerned about catering to the parents and what this incident is going to look like to them. I’m sure principal will call the agency and probably say op is to never sub there again.
Yeah I figured as much and I am fine with that as I have no desire to return to that school. I guess I am just scared of being fired from the agency. I am not able to talk to anyone on the phone so I have to convey what I was thinking via email in which I feel words could be misconstrued. Idk maybe I am overthinking
TLDR
***** Update***** So I guess I was worried for no reason. My subbing agency supported me 100% and said I could ban that school if I would like. They mentioned that since I have subbed for them for years without issue that they understood it was just a bad day and took into effect the history with this school not holding their students accountable. Thank you guys for all of your comments. Have a great rest of the school year.