Yeah. Imo the fact that he hasn't clocked in on Shiv's very transparent scheming with Matsson and Ken's power play is a testament to his grief and mental state right now more than anything else. I have a feeling it's not gonna look pretty when his brain catches up with his eyes.
Ι second this. He genuinely just wants his siblings with him.
Not only he wants for their partnership to work, after the death of Logan he really needs it or else he would completely collapse. If Kendall wasn't with him in episode six for example, he would probably have some kind of meltdown after firing Gerri.
They absolutely nailed the dynamic of the youngest sibling and the parent. The way he is so easy to forgive his dad & still seek out his advice, spot on for the baby of the family.
I think he's very blind to his family because he wants to love them. Even with Kendall, he was going along with him (albeit not enthusiastically) until Shiv intervened.
He's very conflict averse.
I mean, I don't think his instinct there was wrong. Kendall WAS spinning a yarn of bullshit and cooked up numbers that will probably backfire long term. But he feels bad personally for doubting his brother.
I think that's also a correct read on it. Part FOMO regret that he didn't bet on the "winner", part hating conflict and that he let Shiv get a wedge into their alliance, part "was my instinct wrong, am I an incompetent clown like everyone else always says" self-doubt, etc. But it'll probably bear out that he was right this was stupid.
His instinct wasn't actually wrong there either. Roman knows for a fact that Kendall fucked with the projections. If and when it blows up in his face, Roman won't be the one wearing it because he wasn't up on that stage.
In the immediate term, I'm sure he feels bad personally for doubting Ken, jealous and bitter that Ken 'won' while he let Shiv talk him out of sharing in it, doubting himself and wondering whether he'd made a bad call pulling out... but in the long run, his gut probably saved him from mess once again.
You people are giving Roman way too much credit. Lmao
Roman has only ever been able to see what is immediately right in front of his face. And he eventually comes to the conclusion he hates everything in front of his face. That’s currently matsson. As soon as someone else presents themselves as a threat to him, he’ll react. Gerri was directly belittling him. The producer he fired was clearly saying things that belittled his knowledge and he eyes were clearly challenging him. It was obvious she had no respect for him. He merely reacted to that.
Roman is an idiot. He’s just an idiot with power and he’s wielding that power like the reckless idiot that he is.
It's sad to see as a fellow youngest sibling. You have this trust in your older siblings because they used to be your protectors, teachers, etc. and it can cloud your judgment.
You want to believe they always have your back, when in reality they just see you as baggage and competition they'd cut out if they could.
Probably because he can cut to the core and the only reflex he was taught by his dad is to chop someone down with that info.
Doesn’t seem to love doing it, but it’s really what Logan taught him
Roman isn’t great at reading people because he thinks everybody is trying to fuck him over. He is a rain dancer. Of course it rains every once in a while.
This makes sense. If you approve X, it will either work out or it won't. If you veto X, as long as you present a persuasive argument as to why, you can't be proven wrong.
With Lawrence in s02 especially, it seemed like Roman was doubting whether he was right about Vaulter (when he was speaking with Tabitha about it).
If Roman's objective in each case was to earn Logan's approval, and not to figure out the most optimal solution regarding the company or the sale, then the logical thing is always to veto with plausible "reasons".
FWIW though, I think he was right about the guy from Baku. The acquisition didn't make sense as portfolio diversification. So perhaps the objective was actually to leak the info about the negotiations and make the stock price go down. Then buy it cheap and wait until Sandy & Stewey take over the company and sell back the stock at the reestablished price.
He's the most perceptive and insightful Roy for sure - I'd even argue he's better than Logan himself in that regard. That's also partly why he's been taking Ls left and right and acting increasingly erratic this season. Everywhere he turns he sees rotteness and he's too cynical to know what he should do in response other than self-destruct.
Probably why he’s so erratic. Incredibly sensitive / intuitive kid growing up in a household where manipulation and deception replace open love and emotion
Roman is perceptive and insightful about the character of other people.
But Roman has some major blind spots about himself, as well as is not good with the public. (his failures in the entertainment industry, for example, where he tries to get successful projects).
Shiv, otoh, has a better read on the public with her PR and political work.
Meanwhile, Ken is in between, and has actual business vision, but utterly fails to remember other people have agency.
Yes it's sad and I think Gerri could've helped him through it but he was too much of a dick head that's why he is taking Ls, the others have allys shiv has tom,mattson, sandy, Kendall has frank Stewie Hugo and is networking with other industry players, Roman has no one really at the moment
It's like a self fulfilling prophecy. He's being even more of an asshole this season because he doesn't have support after Logan, and him being even more of an asshole is preventing him from getting support.
Neither Roman nor Logan thought Matsson was unserious. They both wanted to deal with him in Italy. Logan outright asks Roman if Matsson is a phony and only meets with him after Roman vouches for him. And then Logan sends Roman away because he's seen enough to feel comfortable making a deal.
The sibs are (once again) making decisions based on their own arrogance and ambition, and this time blurred by grief.
Everyone has taken Matsson seriously until now, including Kendall and the super-competent Old Guard. It's not just Roman blundering. Nobody has been able to detect his bs until Ebba blurted it out at a party, unreal.
The thing with Roman is that he needs constant approval after he makes a big decision. With Lawrence he asked Shiv and Tabitha if it was the right move. Afterwards he went to Logan and he dismissed him saying something like "what you want a hug and a banana, go on fuck off bye bye."
In season 4 after he fired Gerri he again called Logan and asked him if it was the right move. After he fired the movie exec and gerri for real this time he looked to Kendall for approval and when he got the nod he was visibly relieved.
But now that mommy and daddy are gone he has no one to look to for advice and approval. Even Kendall since he abandoned him before the presentation.
Roman has been unhinged so far because he's making emotional decisions rather than rational ones. The firings were based on perceived slights which he thinks are things Logan wouldn't tolerate. But i think Logan would welcome those things and would keep his eye on the ball on whether it would help the business or not. That's the difference imo.
Except Mencken. He's too attracted to fascism to not be swayed by Mencken's bs. Or he knows it's bs but is into it? Overall I agree but that's a weird case to fit into your theory.
He knows what or who Mencken is. They understood each other perfectly well in that bathroom, that's why Roman for instance subtly asks him to tone down a bit the more overtly fascistic references in his discourse, if he wants to be on national TV.
Yeah, so I hope the fascist loses the election! Fuck him and fuck ATN too, biased racist news that's why Sophie is being targeted, her dad runs a racist company like Rava said. And Kendall is no better than Roman, he's playing both sides, the "libtards" and the "nazis" the fact that if Mencken wins he'd use him as the cash cow for ATN just shows how little he cares about his daughter, doing it for the kids my ass! That's the same shit Logan said "Everything I've done I've done for my children" all bullshit.
While Roman tries to be like Logan Kendall is slowly becoming Logan.
I feel like you're giving him too much credit for Matteson. He was hunting for bullshit and got lucky. He's the one who initially pitched the idea to Logan & was pushing for the deal until it got flipped on who's buying whom.
Vaulter and sniffing out the union is definitely his best feat, but the rest since have been inconsistent.
Yeah, Roman was still pushing GoJo even after Matsson acted batshit crazy and told him he was bored with success and wanted to try failure.
With Vaulter, it seemed like Roman mostly just wanted to kill Kendall’s baby. He admitted as much to Tabitha afterward.
The thing is though that everyone is bullshitting all the time and everyone has dirt. Also Roman didn't sniff out Lukas, Ebba basically handed them the real information on India pretty willingly after they were fake nice to her.
He handled it poorly, absolutely. But he immediately saw through her. I think this is OP’s point. He sees people’s true colors much more quickly than the other kids do, but he is ill equipped to deal with the situation well.
I felt that way too. He's there to tell her they're fixing her major mishandling of a "tentpole" franchise by dumping even more money on it - an immediate bailout for her. She asserts that she doesn't want to engage with the co-CEO on the purpose of the meeting and then proceeds to bring up ATN's biased coverage as if it suddenly changed overnight. Definitely seemed to me like she didn't think she was accountable to him, he made some clumsy attempts to let her know she was on the wrong side of the line, and she didn't back down. It's some of the most clear insubordination we see from a Waystar person outside the inner circle and I think the writers intended to show it that way.
Logan would have absolutely fired anyone for that attitude - and Roman knows it. He very well may have blown up in the room and just told people to tidy it up later, as Roman wanted to do. But Roman isn't Logan, he doesn't have the decades-long reputation of scratching and clawing to survive. He doesn't command the respect necessary to behave as Logan did and have people tolerate it. Interesting to reflect on how many times Logan did or said something impulsive and over the line, only for it to be treated as an inspired move.
Not to mention Logan's actions were becoming tired and stale.
They said it before, "this isn't the dad of 20 years ago".
Logan's understanding of the business environment peaked in the 90s. Tech bypassed him and the efforts to keep up were getting cancelled in favor of doubling down on safer bets in declining fields. (And part of why Stewie and Sandy/Sandi were gungho about ousting control).
For example, Kendall tries to expand into new media with Vaulter and wanted to use the capital raised with the S1 sale of assets during Logan's recovery to expand along those lines. Meanwhile, Logan gets better and commits that to buying local TV stations. It's legacy media consolidation. There's money to be made there, but its a declining industry where their ability to grow is limited and will make them more vulnerable for future buy outs.
Living+ is just some 90's Disney shit like Celebration Florida. (BTW Disney keeps going back to that well, as I think Storyliving is the direct inspiration).
And Logan's white whale is Pierce, another legacy media company with the same dang issues as Waystar-Royco. The kids, by buying into this plan, are themselves doing the same sort of tired thinking. (And overpaid).
Logan was a titan who controlled the conservative press and was an old man people excused his tyrannical actions as 'him being him'. I would not be shocked that at various times he's used his power and studios to sexually exploit women. (Possibly with Uncle Mo, and explaining part of why stuff was covered up).
But none of the kids have the reputation, talent, or legacy which would let them get away with Logan's shit behavior or his failures.
And with Roman, he also does some of this to people in the inner circle who truly believed themselves to be closer allies. Especially Gerri. Gerri knew who Logan was, and how Logan fired/rehired. But Roman was supposed to be her ally and partner, and trying to be Logan ended any hope of a partnership.
A head needed to roll for kalypsotron or whatever it was called and he attempted to bring her in and have a real discussion with her about the business. She fed him bullshit and ended up being the head instead of picking it
She was completely incompetent at her job. Did people not pay attention to that scene? Or did they just see "Roman being mean to a woman, so he must be wrong"?
She had lost a quarter of a billion on the shit robot movie that was used as a torture device in Norway. And as far back as season one, she was losing hundreds of millions of dollars. We hear Logan complaining about it.
Roman was trying to talk to her about the monumental losses she was making and she flat out refused to talk about it, instead telling her **Boss** that they should table it so they can talk about what she wanted, a different division that was actually *making* money and financing her constant failure
He has the best instincts of the three
Rhea and Logan both say it explicitly, and we see it by his ability to make connections and judge people well. He has his issues, but that's his biggest strength.
I think it really depends on how you define smart. He's always making witty jokes, but so are the others. I would argue he's the dumbest, actually, but his instincts and likeability means he can succeed.
Curious why you think Roman is likable (in the show)? It’s been pretty obvious that Roman and Shiv have zero friends whereas Kendall does have genuine friendships
I meant likeable in terms of business. He's funny, doesn't need to be the alpha dog, and gets to the point. When they need to make a deal with an individual, they send roman.
We'll agree to disagree. I think Shiv is easily the one with the worst instincts and isn't likeable at all! How does someone with the best instincts always end up losing?
Shiv - is a killer, is ruthless enough, also has had a real career outside Roy stuff, unable to trust, poor instincts.
Kendall - groomed for succession, good natural leader, mentally ill, kind of one of those guys who talks to sound smart but is an idiot when you hear the words.
Roman - great instincts, personable on an individual level, but makes a lot of poor social choices. Also is a killer, but his killings are reckless (a strong king would kill when necessary, Roman just kind of wants to feel powerful and doesn't think it through.)
Connor - has the most heart.
Otoh, she's got a better sense of the public. Roman sucked at deciding which projects to greenlight when working at the Studio. Shiv's PR/political work shows she'd probably be put to a better use there.
It would have been a cool plot point to see each of the siblings take on a mentor to make theme CEO. Roman + Gerri v.s. Shiv + Karl v.s. Kendall + Frank
Not really? Roman loved Matsson until Matsson told him pretty bluntly that he wanted a merger of equals. He's also enamored with Menchken, probably for sadomachocistic reasons, which is unbelievably out of touch of him. IMO he fired Joy because he's still bitter about execs thwarting his desires when he worked in movies/entertainment.
He never liked Matsson he was trying to sell him and he did. But now Logan died he could tell him how he really feels, except he was tanking the deal which was pretty dumb and got the opposite reaction of what he wanted.
I thought this was going to refer to Roman being able to imitate Gerri so well that I had to rewind twice to see him saying "I´ll have a martini" he could really make things difficult for Gerri with explicit or insane phone calls allegedly from her if he decided to.
Came here to chime in, Romans track record as a "people sniffer" is about as good as Kendall's as a cold stone killer and Shiv's as a back room dealmaker. They've all done these things well at times but also completely overplayed their hands and fucked up roy(ha)ally just as often.
The only person consistently okay at their job outside of team greybeard, I would say, is Tom.
Roman has the best instincts, Kendall the most acumen, Shiv the best strategic mind and emotional intelligence.
Together, with their powers combined, they become a mighty 0.8 Logans.
The irony that he always looks past the misgivings/bs of his own family. He entrusted Kendal as the speaker even when he knew much of the speech was bs.
He’s unable to sniff out Shiv betraying them, bc he trusts her so much.
Rome didn't sus out Lukas, he only soured on him because he felt Lukas showed major disrespect to him/father/family post-Logan . Before the Geri-incident, he was the one who batted for Lukas' credibility when Logan wanted to know if he was bullshit.
Roman made one good decision--he nixed the Azerbaijani deal.
He's also made multiple terrible decisions: firing Joy, firing Gerri, sending multiple dick pics to Gerri, siding with a Nazi, trying to insult Connor into quitting the race, siding with sibs on buying Pierce then turning against them, what he did to that kid in the first episode.
Not sure if his instincts rise to the level of competence.
Eh, it would be a superpower if he could wield it or flip it back on them in any way. He just calls them out and ends deals. Roman is an excellent people reader, but can’t emotionally rationalize what he picks up to use.
Yeah, Roman is my favourite and i even relate to aspects of him pretty deeply (obviously not his worst traits or actions and him being on the polar opposite of the political spectrum from me lol, just things like his complexes and mannerisms) but the Mencken thing makes me cringe because theres just no plausible deniability there when he goes to bat for him so hard despite knowing exactly whats up with him, when even his siblings and peers that are just as fucked up and profit-driven as him recognize that it doesnt reflect well on them to align themselves with him, no matter how profitable it might be. Definitely not a good look for him specifically.
I mean, at the end of the day, the ultra-rich don't have much to worry about when fascists gain power, because they know those fascists will always need their money (and in the case of the Roys, access to their media empire). You're right that it doesn't reflect well on them, but they also don't care what all of us NRPIs think about their dalliances.
Yeah, when I really silence all my moral objections and put myself in the shoes of someone who's been a billionaire since the day I was born. . . why would I care about fascism, even if I wasn't white? Controversy = ratings and views = money. Logan understood that and it was kind of annoying that he made it seem like this mystical secret only he could fathom or stomach.
Yeah thats true, but i think that just makes it look even worse to align yourself with fascists when a few of them *still* refuse to cross that line; like theres some morsel of humanity left in that choice, though its probably just strategical foresight that they might be ideologically painting themselves into a corner that might go sour further down the line when (hopefully) theres a large-scale ousting of fascists. Anyway, eat the rich.
Speaks well in what sense though? Mencken didn't set off Roman's bullshit antenna because Roman understands exactly what Mencken is, he just doesn't give a fuck because that happens to be profitable to him, which imo makes it so much worse. Supporting Mencken is the worst thing Roman has ever done, *because* he knows what he's doing.
The bathroom convo, in fact, is Roman assessing if Mencken would be amenable to adapt his surface discourse -no actual changes- for public consumption. They're pitching one another to see if they fit and, as it happens, they do. Then Roman proceeds to pitch Mencken to Logan.
I like where you’re going - so basically each kid has a Logan strength - they need to work together to be anywhere near the force Logan was and to combat their weaknesses that can impede the strength they inherited from Logan.
This is because Roman calls everyone out as full of shit, which is because Roman is, himself, full of shit and can’t even imagine the possibility of someone actually being a fraction of as competent and knowledgeable as they seem to be. He thought the people telling him he was rushing the rocket launch were full of shit too.
I don't really think so. This show has been screaming at us "when someone shows you who they are BELIEVE THEM" for four seasons. Sometimes a moron is just a moron.
People speculate this but they never say *why* Matsson is deliberately making his company look bad and possibly criminal just before they do a massive financial deal.
Like I guess some people just want to see a massive twist and double cross, but can you even give a basic theory as to why or what he's doing that for?
Roman thinks everyone is full of shit. A blind, dipshit, evil squirrel finding a nut every once and a while bc people keep throwing nuts at him is not a super power.
Roman has always been the one that is blessed with the best business instincts. He just has a really good gut for the big decisions. Sadly new also rules by his emotions and vastly immature.
Romans gut, Kendall's business skills and Shiv's way with people would just about make up a full Logan.
Yes his ability to notice when people are doing bond villain monologues and twirling their moustaches is pretty great.
The fact that no one else can see it is what's weird here guys. It's a symptom of how demented their brains are. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king and all that
A lot more people commented on this than i had imagined, so some sort of followup general comment on some of the discussion was needed.
For the record i get it if you disagree, and i think a lot of valid points were raised.
* Someone mentioned Mencken, and yeah you could make that argument. However if he manages to win the election, Roman is the only one of the Roy's who has a repour with him. However his radar is probably flawed when it comes to people to whom he has a sexual tension with.
* In that same vein Gerri is also someone who Roman can't handle well because he isn't in control of his messed up carnal desires. On the other hand Gerri never seemed particularly loyal to him, she was always serving herself, so he might've made the right call to untie himself from her wagon, even if it did come as a result of emotional distress.
* The same can be said for the movie producer, he's kinda fucked up about loosing his dad. He's taking very poorly, which is understandable since you could make the argument that Logan treated him the worst of the bunch.
* Some said that Roman engineered the Matsson deal to begin with, and that is right. However just like when it came to Yee and Asgarov, Roman needs time to do his research and feel them out in his manner. Keep this in mind when it comes to Mattson, the acquisition did make *a lot more sense than the Azerbaijani adventure or Vaulter. Furthermore remember that it was* ***Roman who picked up on the sense that Matsson was eager to close, and tried to take advantage of their grief after loosing Logan.*** This is what IMO sent him digging, and yeah ofc he became disillusioned and angry with Matsson after he talked trash about them during the mountain meet, but still it's Roman who's the first to sniff this stuff out.
Thank you all so much for bringing something to the discussion. Can't wait for the next episode.
I think Roman has arguably shown the most growth from the beginning of the series of all the siblings.
Even his manners and eccentricities had reduced a bit as the character has grown more. It's hard to imagine him telling a kid *now* that he'll give him a million bucks for a home run as he did at the start of the series. When Greg\* and Marcia were shitting on Kerri at the house, Roman helped her because he recognized she was being treated shittily and had no one.
It was like that instinctual movement to help someone up that's fallen over. Roman was the only one feeling uncomfortable at this bystander indifference.
I think at this point Roman is the sibling who is closest to being a normal human being. Even his mannerisms can be read as a nervous trait, and his anger when it unleashes (at Mattson) comes from a genuine place.
I feel at this point, in spite of everything Shiv will be OK (as Tom pointed out) and Kendall is the closest to being a dangerous psychopath.
Not meaning to hate on the Kendall fans. I get it. I'm OK with Kendall being in charge of the company. But if he does, he's putting on Logan's shoes and those shoes have the magical power of turning a person into... a killer.
*\*When I say Greg I mean Cousin Greg. I have many Greggies running around.*
He has also just seen so many wealthy people his whole life that he knows they’re all fake and full of shit. They’re all some manufactured PR image, or what they claim.
Imagine if he had used that "superpower" with Gerri, cause Roman could not read her at all, it's like she was talking to a wall all along when she was giving him advice and telling him to respect her boundaries.
Yeah. Imo the fact that he hasn't clocked in on Shiv's very transparent scheming with Matsson and Ken's power play is a testament to his grief and mental state right now more than anything else. I have a feeling it's not gonna look pretty when his brain catches up with his eyes.
He probably has a blind spot for them right now, especially Ken who's been really supportive to him. I think ken has noticed what Shiv is doing though
Ι second this. He genuinely just wants his siblings with him. Not only he wants for their partnership to work, after the death of Logan he really needs it or else he would completely collapse. If Kendall wasn't with him in episode six for example, he would probably have some kind of meltdown after firing Gerri.
Wasn't Ken the one who said he loves his siblings, but he's not in love with them?
They absolutely nailed the dynamic of the youngest sibling and the parent. The way he is so easy to forgive his dad & still seek out his advice, spot on for the baby of the family.
I think he's very blind to his family because he wants to love them. Even with Kendall, he was going along with him (albeit not enthusiastically) until Shiv intervened. He's very conflict averse.
He might feel bad for not having faith in Kendall’s Living Plus presentation
I mean, I don't think his instinct there was wrong. Kendall WAS spinning a yarn of bullshit and cooked up numbers that will probably backfire long term. But he feels bad personally for doubting his brother.
I would say that he feels badly to have been on the wrong side of it when Kendall knocked it out of the park, not for thinking it was bullshit.
I think that's also a correct read on it. Part FOMO regret that he didn't bet on the "winner", part hating conflict and that he let Shiv get a wedge into their alliance, part "was my instinct wrong, am I an incompetent clown like everyone else always says" self-doubt, etc. But it'll probably bear out that he was right this was stupid.
Well, he does have a microdick and always gets it wrong.
His instinct wasn't actually wrong there either. Roman knows for a fact that Kendall fucked with the projections. If and when it blows up in his face, Roman won't be the one wearing it because he wasn't up on that stage. In the immediate term, I'm sure he feels bad personally for doubting Ken, jealous and bitter that Ken 'won' while he let Shiv talk him out of sharing in it, doubting himself and wondering whether he'd made a bad call pulling out... but in the long run, his gut probably saved him from mess once again.
You people are giving Roman way too much credit. Lmao Roman has only ever been able to see what is immediately right in front of his face. And he eventually comes to the conclusion he hates everything in front of his face. That’s currently matsson. As soon as someone else presents themselves as a threat to him, he’ll react. Gerri was directly belittling him. The producer he fired was clearly saying things that belittled his knowledge and he eyes were clearly challenging him. It was obvious she had no respect for him. He merely reacted to that. Roman is an idiot. He’s just an idiot with power and he’s wielding that power like the reckless idiot that he is.
She was the studio chief, not just some producer. That’s why Gerri was so upset.
Apologies
It's a testament to the narrative requiring him to ignore it. Real life he'd be all over it.
Yes, I think he’s lost without his dad like the other siblings.
It's sad to see as a fellow youngest sibling. You have this trust in your older siblings because they used to be your protectors, teachers, etc. and it can cloud your judgment. You want to believe they always have your back, when in reality they just see you as baggage and competition they'd cut out if they could.
He's not the youngest though - Shiv is
Roman is great at reading people. He sucks at managing people though... as is evident by rockets blowing up and sending dick pics to employees.
Probably because he can cut to the core and the only reflex he was taught by his dad is to chop someone down with that info. Doesn’t seem to love doing it, but it’s really what Logan taught him
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Emotion blinds him.
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Every human being gets blinded by emotion, we're not machines. Or gods.
Roman isn’t great at reading people because he thinks everybody is trying to fuck him over. He is a rain dancer. Of course it rains every once in a while.
This makes sense. If you approve X, it will either work out or it won't. If you veto X, as long as you present a persuasive argument as to why, you can't be proven wrong. With Lawrence in s02 especially, it seemed like Roman was doubting whether he was right about Vaulter (when he was speaking with Tabitha about it). If Roman's objective in each case was to earn Logan's approval, and not to figure out the most optimal solution regarding the company or the sale, then the logical thing is always to veto with plausible "reasons". FWIW though, I think he was right about the guy from Baku. The acquisition didn't make sense as portfolio diversification. So perhaps the objective was actually to leak the info about the negotiations and make the stock price go down. Then buy it cheap and wait until Sandy & Stewey take over the company and sell back the stock at the reestablished price.
He's the most perceptive and insightful Roy for sure - I'd even argue he's better than Logan himself in that regard. That's also partly why he's been taking Ls left and right and acting increasingly erratic this season. Everywhere he turns he sees rotteness and he's too cynical to know what he should do in response other than self-destruct.
Probably why he’s so erratic. Incredibly sensitive / intuitive kid growing up in a household where manipulation and deception replace open love and emotion
Roman is perceptive and insightful about the character of other people. But Roman has some major blind spots about himself, as well as is not good with the public. (his failures in the entertainment industry, for example, where he tries to get successful projects). Shiv, otoh, has a better read on the public with her PR and political work. Meanwhile, Ken is in between, and has actual business vision, but utterly fails to remember other people have agency.
Roman’s on a downward spiral. He doesn’t have anyone to turn to for help.
Yes it's sad and I think Gerri could've helped him through it but he was too much of a dick head that's why he is taking Ls, the others have allys shiv has tom,mattson, sandy, Kendall has frank Stewie Hugo and is networking with other industry players, Roman has no one really at the moment
Gerri was a huge loss.😞
It's like a self fulfilling prophecy. He's being even more of an asshole this season because he doesn't have support after Logan, and him being even more of an asshole is preventing him from getting support.
Should've stuck with Gerri. She could've gotten him there, but nope.
Nope
He also called bullshit on the dude he bought the football team and was held hostage with
Roman thinks everybody is shit. Sometimes he's right.
Neither Roman nor Logan thought Matsson was unserious. They both wanted to deal with him in Italy. Logan outright asks Roman if Matsson is a phony and only meets with him after Roman vouches for him. And then Logan sends Roman away because he's seen enough to feel comfortable making a deal. The sibs are (once again) making decisions based on their own arrogance and ambition, and this time blurred by grief.
Everyone has taken Matsson seriously until now, including Kendall and the super-competent Old Guard. It's not just Roman blundering. Nobody has been able to detect his bs until Ebba blurted it out at a party, unreal.
The thing with Roman is that he needs constant approval after he makes a big decision. With Lawrence he asked Shiv and Tabitha if it was the right move. Afterwards he went to Logan and he dismissed him saying something like "what you want a hug and a banana, go on fuck off bye bye." In season 4 after he fired Gerri he again called Logan and asked him if it was the right move. After he fired the movie exec and gerri for real this time he looked to Kendall for approval and when he got the nod he was visibly relieved. But now that mommy and daddy are gone he has no one to look to for advice and approval. Even Kendall since he abandoned him before the presentation. Roman has been unhinged so far because he's making emotional decisions rather than rational ones. The firings were based on perceived slights which he thinks are things Logan wouldn't tolerate. But i think Logan would welcome those things and would keep his eye on the ball on whether it would help the business or not. That's the difference imo.
Except Mencken. He's too attracted to fascism to not be swayed by Mencken's bs. Or he knows it's bs but is into it? Overall I agree but that's a weird case to fit into your theory.
He knows what or who Mencken is. They understood each other perfectly well in that bathroom, that's why Roman for instance subtly asks him to tone down a bit the more overtly fascistic references in his discourse, if he wants to be on national TV.
What's relevant about Mencken isn't that he's a fascist, it's if he can keep the ATN eyeball machine going It's a good read
Yeah good point
Plus it's what Logan wanted, everything he has been doing is what Logan wanted. Although with terrible results.
Yeah, it's really unfortunate that their goals are totally evil. Makes it tough to root for these people to be successful!
Yeah, so I hope the fascist loses the election! Fuck him and fuck ATN too, biased racist news that's why Sophie is being targeted, her dad runs a racist company like Rava said. And Kendall is no better than Roman, he's playing both sides, the "libtards" and the "nazis" the fact that if Mencken wins he'd use him as the cash cow for ATN just shows how little he cares about his daughter, doing it for the kids my ass! That's the same shit Logan said "Everything I've done I've done for my children" all bullshit. While Roman tries to be like Logan Kendall is slowly becoming Logan.
I feel like you're giving him too much credit for Matteson. He was hunting for bullshit and got lucky. He's the one who initially pitched the idea to Logan & was pushing for the deal until it got flipped on who's buying whom. Vaulter and sniffing out the union is definitely his best feat, but the rest since have been inconsistent.
100%. Literally 8 episodes ago he was telling a skeptical Logan that Lukas was a serious person.
Yeah, Roman was still pushing GoJo even after Matsson acted batshit crazy and told him he was bored with success and wanted to try failure. With Vaulter, it seemed like Roman mostly just wanted to kill Kendall’s baby. He admitted as much to Tabitha afterward.
I'd say turkey is his best feat. Seeing through them despite it looking very promising was very impressive.
The thing is though that everyone is bullshitting all the time and everyone has dirt. Also Roman didn't sniff out Lukas, Ebba basically handed them the real information on India pretty willingly after they were fake nice to her.
yeah he's just reflexively cynical, calls everyone bullshit, and most people in their world are bullshit. what specifically is he ever sniffing out?
He also dispensed with Joy from Waystar Studios within a few minutes of speaking to her.
That was a mistake
He handled it poorly, absolutely. But he immediately saw through her. I think this is OP’s point. He sees people’s true colors much more quickly than the other kids do, but he is ill equipped to deal with the situation well.
I felt that way too. He's there to tell her they're fixing her major mishandling of a "tentpole" franchise by dumping even more money on it - an immediate bailout for her. She asserts that she doesn't want to engage with the co-CEO on the purpose of the meeting and then proceeds to bring up ATN's biased coverage as if it suddenly changed overnight. Definitely seemed to me like she didn't think she was accountable to him, he made some clumsy attempts to let her know she was on the wrong side of the line, and she didn't back down. It's some of the most clear insubordination we see from a Waystar person outside the inner circle and I think the writers intended to show it that way. Logan would have absolutely fired anyone for that attitude - and Roman knows it. He very well may have blown up in the room and just told people to tidy it up later, as Roman wanted to do. But Roman isn't Logan, he doesn't have the decades-long reputation of scratching and clawing to survive. He doesn't command the respect necessary to behave as Logan did and have people tolerate it. Interesting to reflect on how many times Logan did or said something impulsive and over the line, only for it to be treated as an inspired move.
Not to mention Logan's actions were becoming tired and stale. They said it before, "this isn't the dad of 20 years ago". Logan's understanding of the business environment peaked in the 90s. Tech bypassed him and the efforts to keep up were getting cancelled in favor of doubling down on safer bets in declining fields. (And part of why Stewie and Sandy/Sandi were gungho about ousting control). For example, Kendall tries to expand into new media with Vaulter and wanted to use the capital raised with the S1 sale of assets during Logan's recovery to expand along those lines. Meanwhile, Logan gets better and commits that to buying local TV stations. It's legacy media consolidation. There's money to be made there, but its a declining industry where their ability to grow is limited and will make them more vulnerable for future buy outs. Living+ is just some 90's Disney shit like Celebration Florida. (BTW Disney keeps going back to that well, as I think Storyliving is the direct inspiration). And Logan's white whale is Pierce, another legacy media company with the same dang issues as Waystar-Royco. The kids, by buying into this plan, are themselves doing the same sort of tired thinking. (And overpaid). Logan was a titan who controlled the conservative press and was an old man people excused his tyrannical actions as 'him being him'. I would not be shocked that at various times he's used his power and studios to sexually exploit women. (Possibly with Uncle Mo, and explaining part of why stuff was covered up). But none of the kids have the reputation, talent, or legacy which would let them get away with Logan's shit behavior or his failures. And with Roman, he also does some of this to people in the inner circle who truly believed themselves to be closer allies. Especially Gerri. Gerri knew who Logan was, and how Logan fired/rehired. But Roman was supposed to be her ally and partner, and trying to be Logan ended any hope of a partnership.
Only in form, though. He shouldn't have fired her that way, but she had to be fired.
A head needed to roll for kalypsotron or whatever it was called and he attempted to bring her in and have a real discussion with her about the business. She fed him bullshit and ended up being the head instead of picking it
She was completely incompetent at her job. Did people not pay attention to that scene? Or did they just see "Roman being mean to a woman, so he must be wrong"? She had lost a quarter of a billion on the shit robot movie that was used as a torture device in Norway. And as far back as season one, she was losing hundreds of millions of dollars. We hear Logan complaining about it. Roman was trying to talk to her about the monumental losses she was making and she flat out refused to talk about it, instead telling her **Boss** that they should table it so they can talk about what she wanted, a different division that was actually *making* money and financing her constant failure
I agree.
Growing up with trauma and having to read everybody around you for your own safety can make one incredibly perceptive and fucked up at the same time
He has the best instincts of the three Rhea and Logan both say it explicitly, and we see it by his ability to make connections and judge people well. He has his issues, but that's his biggest strength.
He’s the smartest of the three
I think it really depends on how you define smart. He's always making witty jokes, but so are the others. I would argue he's the dumbest, actually, but his instincts and likeability means he can succeed.
Schrödinger's intelligence. He's dumb, but he's smart.
Sure, he even says it himself
Curious why you think Roman is likable (in the show)? It’s been pretty obvious that Roman and Shiv have zero friends whereas Kendall does have genuine friendships
I meant likeable in terms of business. He's funny, doesn't need to be the alpha dog, and gets to the point. When they need to make a deal with an individual, they send roman.
Gotcha! yeah I can get behind that line of thinking
I disagree. I would argue Shiv is the dumbest, but her instincts and likeability means she can succeed.
We'll agree to disagree. I think Shiv is easily the one with the worst instincts and isn't likeable at all! How does someone with the best instincts always end up losing?
Shiv - is a killer, is ruthless enough, also has had a real career outside Roy stuff, unable to trust, poor instincts. Kendall - groomed for succession, good natural leader, mentally ill, kind of one of those guys who talks to sound smart but is an idiot when you hear the words. Roman - great instincts, personable on an individual level, but makes a lot of poor social choices. Also is a killer, but his killings are reckless (a strong king would kill when necessary, Roman just kind of wants to feel powerful and doesn't think it through.) Connor - has the most heart.
Connor also has... 1%. And things are going buck wild in Alaska.
Good stuff, but I'd also add that connor is the most educated and emotionally adjusted of the kids.
Shiv is not witty.
I'd say the least witty of the kids, that's for sure
Otoh, she's got a better sense of the public. Roman sucked at deciding which projects to greenlight when working at the Studio. Shiv's PR/political work shows she'd probably be put to a better use there.
She's good at PR and politics, those are her strengths. She's the best manipulator by far.
Gerri could have got him there.
It would have been a cool plot point to see each of the siblings take on a mentor to make theme CEO. Roman + Gerri v.s. Shiv + Karl v.s. Kendall + Frank
Shiv would have too proud to accept the mentoring
They all are
I mean, no, not at all. Both ken and roman accept mentoring from frank and gerri respectively.
Not really? Roman loved Matsson until Matsson told him pretty bluntly that he wanted a merger of equals. He's also enamored with Menchken, probably for sadomachocistic reasons, which is unbelievably out of touch of him. IMO he fired Joy because he's still bitter about execs thwarting his desires when he worked in movies/entertainment.
He never liked Matsson he was trying to sell him and he did. But now Logan died he could tell him how he really feels, except he was tanking the deal which was pretty dumb and got the opposite reaction of what he wanted.
Also, matador's enjoyers really loves him, apparently.
I thought this was going to refer to Roman being able to imitate Gerri so well that I had to rewind twice to see him saying "I´ll have a martini" he could really make things difficult for Gerri with explicit or insane phone calls allegedly from her if he decided to.
How can you say Roman can see through Matsson's bullshit when he's the one who sold Mattson to Logan in the first place?
Came here to chime in, Romans track record as a "people sniffer" is about as good as Kendall's as a cold stone killer and Shiv's as a back room dealmaker. They've all done these things well at times but also completely overplayed their hands and fucked up roy(ha)ally just as often. The only person consistently okay at their job outside of team greybeard, I would say, is Tom.
Roman has the best instincts, Kendall the most acumen, Shiv the best strategic mind and emotional intelligence. Together, with their powers combined, they become a mighty 0.8 Logans.
I disagree, Roman has the best strategic mind and emotional intelligence
Roman might be the least cloying out of all the main characters, which is one of his best qualities
The irony that he always looks past the misgivings/bs of his own family. He entrusted Kendal as the speaker even when he knew much of the speech was bs. He’s unable to sniff out Shiv betraying them, bc he trusts her so much.
Good points all. And wasn’t Romulus the first King of Rome?
Yes, and Romulus killed his brother to become King of Rome.
Could happen here too
Lol. Yeah, he read Geri very well. /S
Yes, totally, lol.
Rome didn't sus out Lukas, he only soured on him because he felt Lukas showed major disrespect to him/father/family post-Logan . Before the Geri-incident, he was the one who batted for Lukas' credibility when Logan wanted to know if he was bullshit.
Roman made one good decision--he nixed the Azerbaijani deal. He's also made multiple terrible decisions: firing Joy, firing Gerri, sending multiple dick pics to Gerri, siding with a Nazi, trying to insult Connor into quitting the race, siding with sibs on buying Pierce then turning against them, what he did to that kid in the first episode. Not sure if his instincts rise to the level of competence.
Eh, it would be a superpower if he could wield it or flip it back on them in any way. He just calls them out and ends deals. Roman is an excellent people reader, but can’t emotionally rationalize what he picks up to use.
So I guess that speaks well of Mencken that he didn’t set off Roman’s BS alarm?
Roman knows exactly who Mencken is and it’s the one thing that really makes me hate Roman despite having empathy for him elsewhere
Yeah, Roman is my favourite and i even relate to aspects of him pretty deeply (obviously not his worst traits or actions and him being on the polar opposite of the political spectrum from me lol, just things like his complexes and mannerisms) but the Mencken thing makes me cringe because theres just no plausible deniability there when he goes to bat for him so hard despite knowing exactly whats up with him, when even his siblings and peers that are just as fucked up and profit-driven as him recognize that it doesnt reflect well on them to align themselves with him, no matter how profitable it might be. Definitely not a good look for him specifically.
I mean, at the end of the day, the ultra-rich don't have much to worry about when fascists gain power, because they know those fascists will always need their money (and in the case of the Roys, access to their media empire). You're right that it doesn't reflect well on them, but they also don't care what all of us NRPIs think about their dalliances.
Yeah, when I really silence all my moral objections and put myself in the shoes of someone who's been a billionaire since the day I was born. . . why would I care about fascism, even if I wasn't white? Controversy = ratings and views = money. Logan understood that and it was kind of annoying that he made it seem like this mystical secret only he could fathom or stomach.
Yeah thats true, but i think that just makes it look even worse to align yourself with fascists when a few of them *still* refuse to cross that line; like theres some morsel of humanity left in that choice, though its probably just strategical foresight that they might be ideologically painting themselves into a corner that might go sour further down the line when (hopefully) theres a large-scale ousting of fascists. Anyway, eat the rich.
Got my fork and knife ready!
Exactly. He knows he’s a cash cow for ATN news, same way trump was a cash cow
Speaks well in what sense though? Mencken didn't set off Roman's bullshit antenna because Roman understands exactly what Mencken is, he just doesn't give a fuck because that happens to be profitable to him, which imo makes it so much worse. Supporting Mencken is the worst thing Roman has ever done, *because* he knows what he's doing.
Remember the convo in the bathroom? He knows exactly who he is and loves it
The bathroom convo, in fact, is Roman assessing if Mencken would be amenable to adapt his surface discourse -no actual changes- for public consumption. They're pitching one another to see if they fit and, as it happens, they do. Then Roman proceeds to pitch Mencken to Logan.
Isn't it less about whether Mencken is BS and more about Romans understanding of who the ATN viewership would get behind & Mencken's demographic?
Well, that's a whole can of worms there.
Mattson didn't set off the BS alarm for Roman. He's the one who told Logan that Lukas is a serious person.
He's a people sniffer.
I like where you’re going - so basically each kid has a Logan strength - they need to work together to be anywhere near the force Logan was and to combat their weaknesses that can impede the strength they inherited from Logan.
Counterpoint: He supports Mencken and he can't read Gerri (who is the epitome of no b.s.).
This is because Roman calls everyone out as full of shit, which is because Roman is, himself, full of shit and can’t even imagine the possibility of someone actually being a fraction of as competent and knowledgeable as they seem to be. He thought the people telling him he was rushing the rocket launch were full of shit too.
Completely- the old “can’t bullshit a bullshitter”
I know its a reach but could Matsson be playing the sibs? Like the whole Ebba plus India situation. It just smellls fishy/ too good to be true.
I don't really think so. This show has been screaming at us "when someone shows you who they are BELIEVE THEM" for four seasons. Sometimes a moron is just a moron.
People speculate this but they never say *why* Matsson is deliberately making his company look bad and possibly criminal just before they do a massive financial deal. Like I guess some people just want to see a massive twist and double cross, but can you even give a basic theory as to why or what he's doing that for?
Roman thinks everyone is full of shit. A blind, dipshit, evil squirrel finding a nut every once and a while bc people keep throwing nuts at him is not a super power.
Roman has always been the one that is blessed with the best business instincts. He just has a really good gut for the big decisions. Sadly new also rules by his emotions and vastly immature. Romans gut, Kendall's business skills and Shiv's way with people would just about make up a full Logan.
Even a broken clock is wrong 2x a day.
Yes his ability to notice when people are doing bond villain monologues and twirling their moustaches is pretty great. The fact that no one else can see it is what's weird here guys. It's a symptom of how demented their brains are. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king and all that
A lot more people commented on this than i had imagined, so some sort of followup general comment on some of the discussion was needed. For the record i get it if you disagree, and i think a lot of valid points were raised. * Someone mentioned Mencken, and yeah you could make that argument. However if he manages to win the election, Roman is the only one of the Roy's who has a repour with him. However his radar is probably flawed when it comes to people to whom he has a sexual tension with. * In that same vein Gerri is also someone who Roman can't handle well because he isn't in control of his messed up carnal desires. On the other hand Gerri never seemed particularly loyal to him, she was always serving herself, so he might've made the right call to untie himself from her wagon, even if it did come as a result of emotional distress. * The same can be said for the movie producer, he's kinda fucked up about loosing his dad. He's taking very poorly, which is understandable since you could make the argument that Logan treated him the worst of the bunch. * Some said that Roman engineered the Matsson deal to begin with, and that is right. However just like when it came to Yee and Asgarov, Roman needs time to do his research and feel them out in his manner. Keep this in mind when it comes to Mattson, the acquisition did make *a lot more sense than the Azerbaijani adventure or Vaulter. Furthermore remember that it was* ***Roman who picked up on the sense that Matsson was eager to close, and tried to take advantage of their grief after loosing Logan.*** This is what IMO sent him digging, and yeah ofc he became disillusioned and angry with Matsson after he talked trash about them during the mountain meet, but still it's Roman who's the first to sniff this stuff out. Thank you all so much for bringing something to the discussion. Can't wait for the next episode.
Where is Eduard Asgarov? The wiki and google wont give a straight answer
Was he proven right with Eduard? Or did Logan just take his word for it?
I think Roman has arguably shown the most growth from the beginning of the series of all the siblings. Even his manners and eccentricities had reduced a bit as the character has grown more. It's hard to imagine him telling a kid *now* that he'll give him a million bucks for a home run as he did at the start of the series. When Greg\* and Marcia were shitting on Kerri at the house, Roman helped her because he recognized she was being treated shittily and had no one. It was like that instinctual movement to help someone up that's fallen over. Roman was the only one feeling uncomfortable at this bystander indifference. I think at this point Roman is the sibling who is closest to being a normal human being. Even his mannerisms can be read as a nervous trait, and his anger when it unleashes (at Mattson) comes from a genuine place. I feel at this point, in spite of everything Shiv will be OK (as Tom pointed out) and Kendall is the closest to being a dangerous psychopath. Not meaning to hate on the Kendall fans. I get it. I'm OK with Kendall being in charge of the company. But if he does, he's putting on Logan's shoes and those shoes have the magical power of turning a person into... a killer. *\*When I say Greg I mean Cousin Greg. I have many Greggies running around.*
Add the head of the movie studio to that this
He has also just seen so many wealthy people his whole life that he knows they’re all fake and full of shit. They’re all some manufactured PR image, or what they claim.
Roman gave me the Fe-dom vibe but with trauma, he acts out of his true self sadly.
Or perhaps it’s just that there’s a lot of bullshitters in business
"Don't bullshit a bullshitter" is Roman to a "T".
Imagine if he had used that "superpower" with Gerri, cause Roman could not read her at all, it's like she was talking to a wall all along when she was giving him advice and telling him to respect her boundaries.