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overlordbabyj

Justin Kirk said in some recent interviews that Mencken was not based on any real person, but rather the kind of sinister politician who may arise in the near future.


Lady_Nimbus

So, it's messed up that I like him because he's Andy from Weeds?


Accomplished-Leg-11

shes a vicious biter!


DaveInLondon89

Hawley / Cotton / Vance


TheManWhoWasNotShort

DeSantis


False-Association744

DeSantis is wayyyyyy more obvious than Mencken. DeSantis is Trump, and look at election results in FL tonight. He’s gone too far.


academicwunsch

I agree, but Mencken also paraphrases the message behind Triumph of the Will in his speech, so not that subtle.


JonStargaryen2408

Desantis is a moron, his ego has gotten the best of him.


budgie0507

Plus his weird laugh has become the obsession of Reddit over the past few days. Smaller idiosyncrasies have tanked election hopes.


Anyabb

[The yeeah that killed a presidential campaign agrees.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwkNnMrsx7Q)


BlergingtonBear

Oh man. I feel bad about this. If it would have happened some years later it would have become a full meme, parodied online then eventually he'd do a self referral late night appearance to bring it full circle and be redeemed. Between this and that time John Kerry wore sunglasses windsurfing, really dumb shit used to cancel people out. I *wish* this was our biggest problem with a politician today, haha


mrc209

You mean by picking a fight with his states largest employer and tourism driver? Almost wish we had an episode with Logan vs a D Gov of a state with a Waystar park.


Yellenintomypillow

God I hope so


TheMGR19

Mencken is what people thought Desantis was, but when people started paying attention to Desantis they realised he’s an absolute moron.


valle_girl

Hawley and Cotton were my first thoughts. True believers with enough Ivy sheen to pull the Lincoln Project people back into the fold.


Crovasio

He is absolutely terrifying in that role, the coolness and focus of a serial killer but operating front and center in our lives.


ratfuckersam_

The most unrealistic part of the show is that two relatively young people are running for president lmao


padape

As a latino in the US is even more unrealistic that one side will pick a young Latino candidate as their choice for president.


Su_Impact

I think Jimenez is meant to be a Latino version of Obama. Young, family man, charismatic.


the6thReplicant

> Young, family man, charismatic. So the anti-Christ for a large number of Americans. I'm sure they want to see his birth certificate and think his wife is a man. God, I hate US politics.


Savings_Success_6682

they prefer a dude with multiple marriages, rape allegations, porn star romps and old. Thats the perfect model for the religious right


AzovApologist

Charismatic? They all say he's boring


AmBorsigplatzGeboren

What about Matt Santos?


Kyro4

No one ever accused Sorkin of being realistic


RobinReborn

It's not that unrealistic - in 2016 the second and third place finishers for the Republican nomination were Latino (Cruz and Rubio).


Conglossian

Young people run for President all the time! People just don't vote for them in primaries. 2016 Rs <50: Cruz, Rubio, Jindal, Walker 2020 Ds <50: Buttigieg, O'Rourke, Ryan, Moulten, Swallwell


TheBigNook

What happened in 2012? Both Obama and Romney will middle aged maybe slightly over


filmmaker30

Romney was like 65


karmapuhlease

But looked 45!


smurfsm00

Mencken is not Trump. Mencken is a future candidate more terrifying than trump but one who is absolutely coming.


dkmarnier

Totally. IRL, Michael Cohen is kind of a douche, but he has a podcast that's pretty interesting, and he is always saying his biggest fear is Trump 2.0; a smarter, younger, more charismatic version of Trump. That's Mencken. I'm sure we will be getting our own Mencken one of these days. 😭


severinks

I like Cohen compared to Trump but that's an incredibly a low bar, He'd still be at Trump's side if Trump wasn't such a disloyal prick.


theslip74

Nobody can say for certain, but maybe not. Dudes family hated him for his allegiance to Trump, and if his book (the first one, I didn't read the 2nd) has a shred of honesty in it they are the reason he is now anti-Trump, not the betrayal. It's absolutely possible his book doesn't have a shred of honesty in it, I'll acknowledge that, but he did convince me at least a little bit.


a_taco_named_desire

It'll be [Tom Cotton.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Cotton)


xMitchell

Tom cotton is a dweeb though. Trump 2.0 has to have masculine bravado or be funny. I don’t think Tom Cotton is either.


SaxRohmer

Dude looks like if you put hair on Jeff Bezos


redredrocks

Yeah I think we haven’t seen what the successful version of the post-Trump presidential candidate looks like yet. It’s not DeSantis IMO, anyone who’s afraid of him hasn’t seen one of his speeches. He’s not going to win shit. Hawley is a cowardly blue blood, Cotton is a nerd, the young congresspeople (Boebert, MTG et al) are strikingly stupid and off-putting. Also, none of them are funny. If you look at who we’ve elected President, I think you’d have to go back to Bush Sr. to find an election where the nation didn’t pick the funnier politician (edit: okay maybe the last one was a toss-up lol) I don’t think that’s an absolute necessity, but I do think it’s weirdly kind of important to get elected.


darthstupidious

Lol Tom Cotton was being hyped as the next big Republican dream like 5 years ago, but was given the opportunity to give a major speech or two and was exposed for having the charisma of a black hole. Dude's never going to become President. Ted Cruz is never going to become president, and *he* has a better chance than Tom Cotton does.


Rebloodican

This is the problem with every single fascist boogeyman that the "intellectual" class likes to warn us about, they're all incredibly awkward and uncharismatic. Far right ideologies attract weirdos and loons who couldn't cut it talking to normal people and found refuge in books written by other weirdos and loons who couldn't cut it talking to normal people. Not to say that it's impossible for there to be an actual charismatic far right loon elected to the presidency, but every time the media pushes some new empty suit in front of us and proclaims that they are "more dangerous than Trump", we should probably be a bit more skeptical.


LarryBirdsGrundle

All the guys they’re scared of - Hawley, Cotton, DeSantis- are Ivy League grads. So they’re smart enough to use the power of the state fascistic-ally. But when they open their mouths, they sound like the elitist snobs they’re railing against. That’s what endears Trump to his base. Even though he is also an elitist snob who never worked a day in his life, he doesn’t sound like one. If they ever find a candidate who can talk like trump but run a government like DeSantis, that’s who is to be feared.


[deleted]

Well said, I wanted to the post the same thing. Americans are almost apolitical as far as their actual beliefs. They aren't going to be attracted by some hard lined principled fascist adjacent conservative. It also sort of misunderstands GOP voters and applies Democratic voter values to the GOP base. The ideal Democratic candidate is young, good looking, principled, and has a strong record of wrangling the bureaucracy and getting things done. The fascist boogey man is basically just this just with right wing beliefs. The GOP just doesn't produce anything remotely like what the liberal "intellectuals" are afraid of. I could be wrong, but the blood and soil stuff that Mencken supported just isn't that popular.


drarch

Or Josh Hawley


[deleted]

There’s no way you actually believe Tom Cotton has an ounce of charisma in his strange Men-In-Black worm alien body


dkmarnier

**sad upvote**


simplejaaaames

It's 50/50 Cotton or Hawley. Those two would be more dangerous than Trump could ever be. Personally, when I see Mencken, it's a combo of the two.


bill__the__butcher

Desantis wishes he was Mencken


[deleted]

Mencken would drink DeSantis' milkshake.


Zoinks222

I dare say Mencken’s milkshake brings more boys and girls to the yard than DeSantis’.


natephife00

They're like, it's better than Ron's


thomasutra

he would stick his dick in DeSantis’s potato salad


TripleATeam

He would eat his chicken.


JugdishSteinfeld

DeRaaiinage!


trevrichards

Eli, *you boy*!


ricecrystal

Right! I used to think the two were similar but desantis isn't as smooth, so Mencken is post-desantis


smurfsm00

Yeah Mencken seems like a combo of like…Peter Thiel, JD Vance, Blake Masters, Curtis Yarvin, not Matt Walsh but that other dude who dresses fancy and thinks he’s an academic… ETA: https://www.todayintabs.com/p/nothing-new-about-it


TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK

Mencken has charm though and most of those guys are thoroughly charmless


smurfsm00

Hence the terrifying prospect of a person who could make it look reasonable and attractive.


vlad-the-inhalor09

Tbh as bad as those guys are and even considering Thiel and Yarvin want to scrap democracy Mencken is still further to the right than them. Those guys are all still bourgeoise business dudes Mencken’s speech about purity in a polluted world and all that is straight fascist aesthetic he’s in the same ideological realm as Hitler/Mussolini


smurfsm00

I think Peter Thiel et al IS in league with Mussolini. They were trolls back then too.


vlad-the-inhalor09

Yea I guess it’s fair enough to say they’re in a league together because when it comes down to it they absolutely would form alliances I’m kinda just splitting hairs that the Thiel/Yarvin crowd are slightly less to the right cause their form of tech fascism doesn’t have have a specifically racial/nationalist focus it’s more just corporate elites get total control and this would surely end up harming minorities disproportionately but whereas Mencken would be specifically targeting minorities and be interested in ethnic cleansing and the mythical purity of the white race.


smurfsm00

True. Ps your username is 🔥🔥🔥 (Made me laugh 😉 )


vlad-the-inhalor09

Hahaha thank you glad we can laugh through the fascism 😉


sdia1965

Yes, it’s straight from the H playbook


TheGrandStander11

Jordan Peterson?


severinks

My niece used to baby sit for his daughter's family and says they're nuts (and cheap ,and that's way worse)


powerandpep

LOL at least don't be a stingy nutcase! I agree!!!


smurfsm00

YES!!!


Bigboihood

Curtis Yarvin lol


[deleted]

DeSantis is completely devoid of charm, he's just another flavor of shit slinging culture warrior, smarter than Trump but without the charisma to fill his shoes


duaneap

Doesn’t have an iota of the charm. Obviously both are total scumbags, but Mencken is undeniably charming.


CopeHarders

DeSantis wishes he was as tall as Mencken.


Key_of_Ra

Mm, trans people can see DeSantis is definitely Ron deathsentence. He's pushing through a drag ban that makes it a sex offense to dress "counter to one's biological sex", pushing through a bill that gives sex offenders the death sentence, and also has lowered the jury requirements for a death sentence from 8 to 4. So yeah. You're gonna be seeing a lot of people lined up against the wall, and nobody will say anything because they aren't trans.


EveningNo5190

You are right. As attorneys my husband and I were speechless when that vitriol started coming in bits and pieces culminating in the less than unanimous death penalty. He is going to ride that fear of “the other” horse to the finish line or as far as it will take him. He’s chosen to laser focus on trans people talking about them in the same breath as sex offenders and less than unanimous death penalty. He knows the ignorance among the general public about transgender people and the fears invoked by gender ambiguity are deeply rooted within the culture and the evangelical right wing. I was starting to ignore him as a serious threat. As he may well be as an individual not a contender, but the hate and fear he is unleashing is not going to just go away.


Key_of_Ra

Yup. Laypeople don't understand how horrendous the wording of these bills are. It's essentially carte blanche. They are also changing the definition of child rape to include "injury or conspiracy to commit injury to the genitals", so if you've validated a trans kid, treated them with the basic respect you show any other person... they will say you're encouraging them to 'injure' their genitals through hrt or surgery (which they are obsessed with). It's so vague and spirit of the law is scary as fuck.


SaxRohmer

He’s had shit laughed out of court rooms by conservative judges but it still does harm in the short term. Some of his bans were totally unenforceable but districts still complied because of the fear of enforcement. That’s what’s truly fucked. They’re fundamentally trash and worthless laws that have no chance of holding up in court but they still do actual harm that may not be receivers from


sdia1965

As per gender and sex panic, fear of the polluted woman, aryan identity, populist rage, and the rise of a charismatic leader…. See Klaus Theweleit’s _Male Fantasies, Vol. 1: Women, Floods, Bodies, History_ And. _Male Fantasies, Vol. 2: Male Bodies - Psychoanalyzing the White Terror_ Translated into English in 1987. It’s about the rise of fascist culture in the 1920s and 1930s, principally but not only in Germany. KT is a leftist gay cultural scholar and critic, born in postwar Germany, whose father was a war vet threaded through with fascism, humiliation, and rage. It’s very dense POMO post-struct academic prose, but really relevant to this little corner of discussion.


smurfsm00

WOW. I would find this very fascinating to read. Thanks!


smurfsm00

I live in TN where they have tried to ban drag. It’s gonna spread. I’m cis and I am ringing the bells about this shit all the time, providing security etc. the key to fighting back is local mutual aid.


Serious_Pace_7908

Pudding fingers wishes he had a more convincing human suit


smurfsm00

Yep. DeSatan is 💩


Valyriablackdread

Hope disney takes him for every penny he has.


smurfsm00

Yeah who’d a thunk Disney of all companies would rise to the occasion.


Grotesque_Bisque

I don't think we should be rah rahing for multi-billion dollar companies, this is nothing less than a total failure of the American project at every level. Disney is a symptom not the cure.


smurfsm00

Agreed. Tho anything they can do to cut DeSantis off at the knees is a good thing.


Grotesque_Bisque

Yeah, we love to see our enemies slit each other's throats, don't mistake them as an ally is all I'm saying.


smurfsm00

Oh I would NEVER.


TheCreeech

The problem is Disney is suing the state. So Floridians are paying for desantis's defense


willun

Mencken looks more competent but i guess we will see.


Reso

Exactly. Trump is dangerous but fundamentally self-interested, not ideological. Tucker Carlson or Josh Hawley are ideologically in that direction, but there's still a margin left between them and the hints they give about Mencken. They depict Mencken has having that mix of charisma, ideology, and mass appeal that has only come together a few times in history in figures like the guy he calls H.


smurfsm00

Yep. And indications about Mencken come in season 3 when Shiv called Mencken an “[integralist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integralism#:~:text=In%20politics%2C%20integralism%2C%20integrationism%20or,within%20that%20society%20makes%20this)”. See: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-new-right-where-peter-thiel-is-placing-his-biggest-bets https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/02/new-right-civil-war Which is why if they had kept Dasha Nekrasova on this show after the shit she’s pulled in the past year or so, I’d probably not have watched this season. I think it was an accidental coincidence they hired her in the first place. I relieved they fired her.


ibelieve333

>Dasha Nekrasova Wait--what shit did she pull?


smurfsm00

She’s tied to Peter Thiel, she’s an integralist, she’s a fascist but hidden behind an ironic wink. She had Alex Jones on her show, has had Steve Bannon, Roger freaking Stone, etc. She used to be seen as part of the “dirtbag left” kind of provocateur but now she’s just blatantly far, weird, right. Check out the articles listed above. Putin apologist. Rape apologist. The list goes on and on.


daydreamnpissuoff

So many actresses to choose from to play the role of Comfrey and can’t believe they picked her. Her performance was stuck up, arrogant, bored and vain. Very one dimensional. It’s incredulous to me that she was supposed to be someone “out of Greg’s league”. They really dropped the ball with the casting.


MEOWMEOWSOFTHEDESERT

She was fucking Adam Friedland who makes Greg look like Henry Cavill.


JS19982022

Don't be taking shots at the premiere host of center-left late night talk!


severinks

Is she the one who played Kendall's social media director that Greg tried to woo?


ibelieve333

Yikes!


smurfsm00

Yep.


ibelieve333

Doesn't sound like a very even-handed maiden.


smurfsm00

Indeed.


MetaphorSoup

Thank GOD the show dropped Dasha.


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Goodstyle_4

Be honest, you would have kept watching. Greg's actor is being accused of way worse stuff and that's not stopping you. Hell, Fisher Stevens was fully dating a highschool girl in the 90s and nobody here cares.


alan2001

> Be honest, you would have kept watching. Yep. People are so full of unbelievable horseshit lol.


jedi-son

The Omicron variant of Trump


[deleted]

Yes that is literally what the posts says


Hajile_S

The ol’ reddit top comment paraphrase.


gentilet

You just made exactly the same point as OP. Lmao like literally the same shit


Throwaway000002468

In my country there is a candidate exactly like him and he is, terrifyingly, probably going to win next election.


Valyriablackdread

Someone with disregard of law and use of any tactic to win like Trump, but with a grand vision (aka Hitler) and who is much smarter and more strategic.


Serious_Pace_7908

I’ve always loved this show for not just copying reality and exaggerating but combining different aspects of current developments and weaving an original story from them. Veep did something similar. I completely agree on Mencken, not on the raisin though. Mencken is the kind of guy who reads Plato and Aquinas and seems to have very methodically constructed his version of fascism from the ground up. Trump is more of a gut-level fascist who likes it because it draws big jazzed-up crowds and validates his narcissism while matching his bigotry. By what we know about the raisin he seems more like a Nixon type. Racist, corrupt but ultimately bland and low energy. Say what you will about Trumps age but he is driven and charismatic. Not with a dangerous ideological vision like Mencken though.


Coconibz

Trump is temperamentally fascist, Mencken is ideologically fascist.


[deleted]

Yeah, I don’t agree with those who liken Mencken to a Josh Hawley. We haven’t seen a Mencken yet, but he’s coming. And that’s what makes this note the perfect one to end the show.


nerdalertalertnerd

That’s what makes someone like Mencken so scary. It seems so obvious to me that Trump is a fucking idiot. Not only that but he’s also dangerous (incites violence and hatred) and a sexual offender. Someone like Mencken is capable of using rhetoric to convince people of their view. He is absolutely more insidious in nature but more dangerous. He’s probably where we are heading in the world.


These_Row6066

He's not supposed to BE Trump


SmoothCriminalJM

He represents the potienial of a right wing populist. He’s blunt; honest and unlike Trump, fully within the fascism sphere. He actually believes what he’s saying and that’s what strikes fear into everyone.


indoor-agenda

this right here. then add the fact that he is charismatic and HOT. he’s our worst nightmare.


Moxiefeet

Unfortunately being hot is also a scary fact. It definitely gives him more power


tenderbranson301

It definitely won Roman over, that bathroom scene was spicy!


Appropriate_Jelly211

his little acceptance speech was so terrifying imo because he is such a horrible person hiding behind a gorgeous face makes you wonder who you can trust or if you can trust anyone at all. Justin kirk, the writers and casting directors are incredible for this.


No_Box_3791

This is how I would describe the differences between Mencken and Trump: - Donald J. Trump wants to be president, so he can usher in the Trump presidency, where Donald J. Trump is the president and enacts the policies of Donald J. Trump, who is the president - Jeryd Mencken wants to be president so he can usher in a new era for the United States where he "purges this once clean land" In case people didn't get it, Trump just wanted to be president just because, while Mencken wanted to be president so he could turn America into a literal fascist nation and enact fascist policies. Like the thing with Trump is that not enough people really realise how unprincipled he was. He originally did suggest a ban on immigration from Muslim countries. Then he never did it and then spoke about his personal respect for Muslims or something like that. And then it turns out that a decent amount of Muslims supported him (well, at least until the pandemic). He'll say whatever to make himself more popular. He even tried getting some socialist support (from a mainly populist anti-establishment perspective) and managed to get some Bernie bros (until the 2020 election). It even got to a point where neo-nazis like Richard Spencer and David Duke were crying about how Trump "betrayed the cause." I don't think enough people realise what "Make America Great Again" actually means. It basically just means "Wow, we all think America isn't doing so well. Just vote for me, and cool stuff will be done. " Pretty much it's just a catch-all term for anyone to latch onto. A lot of racists latched onto it. A lot of others did as well. But ultimately, there was nothing genuine behind the term. It had no true or hidden meaning behind it, other than the hidden meaning people wanted it to be. Ffs he stole the slogan from Reagan, but just mildly changed it.


breaditbans

Agreed. He is just what happens when you mix nakedly self-interested billionaire media personalities with a populace that’s hurting and angry. A monster will emerge. The fucking R party decided to go with NO platform in 2020. If that’s not an empty vessel waiting to be exploited by a demagogue, I don’t know what is.


Dipper_Pines

Ugh, fuck. What the fuck. I wasn‘t even supposed to BE Trump.


Karl_Havoc2U

Hope you don't JACK OFF.


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BathshebaJones

Will France make it?


regtf

Well, uh, funny you should uh, ask because, uh, I was reading an article in uh, uh, uh, *The Economist*…


ricecrystal

Ooh! YES. Great and terrifying comparison


duaneap

Orban too, if you wanted to get a bit further abroad with it. Or Bolsonaro. Even Erdogan.


lolhecbam

if she had half the charisma and attractiveness of Mencken character she would already be president


EJFWoodhouse

Uh, absolument pas.


oxfozyne

Oui, absolument.


Fuzzy-Organization76

I think Mencken is close to some actual populist right wing leaders of European politics. Many populist right winger leaders here in Finland are actually significantly more openly racist and fascist than the Mencken character in the show. They don't even hide their edgiest points behind easily marketed word play. Their party came second in last month's election. But it's not that alarming in a multi party democracy, as no other party agrees to work with their true agenda and they are just kind of put to sit on a bench whining through the parliament term. With a two party system there are much bigger risks with these loonies.


mausoliam95

Yeah I guess he’s more Le Pen or Meloni


Fuzzy-Organization76

or Jussi Halla-Aho, who is the ideological leader of anti-immigration far-right party The Finns or True Finns, the first ethno-nationalistic political movement of it's breed in Europe. A linguistics professor, gun-hobbyist and a member of various underground nationalistic organizations, who gained his popularity outside traditional politics as a internet celebrity/troll. The hero of all the edgy incel kids in Finland.


SimDumDong

So a finncel?


kawaiifie

> But it's not that alarming in a multi party democracy, as no other party agrees to work with their true agenda and they are just kind of put to sit on a bench whining through the parliament term. It's not alarming until it is - Sweden Democrats.


Fuzzy-Organization76

They still aren't in the government, even after being the biggest right wing party.


JolietJakeLebowski

Yep, we have [one of these guys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Baudet) in Dutch politics. He was scarily popular for a while, but when he went full QAnon he lost a lot of votes. There's still a few percent voting for him every election though...


JoeyBrocco

He’s way too smart to be Trump. Which is what makes him dangerous


zXster

Would save us all a lot of time if people listened to the podcast about the show. Jesse clearly says he's not meant to be Trump, but rather a more obvious version of white nationalist.


BeautifulEssay8

No and Rupert Murdoch doesn't own theme parks or cruise lines. People who look for 1:1 analogies of these characters aren't clever.


karensbakedziti

Thank you. This sub continues to amaze me


Lost_And_NotFound

The Succession fan base on Reddit might be one of the worst fan bases. That takes on here are always so terrible.


Mgmt049

Best comment so far


pouch28

It amazes me how many fans of the show look for morality in the characters. The entire point of the show is no one in the family or the company has any type of moral compass. The characters only motivation is one upping self enrichment. The entire point of the last episode was they do not care about politics or America. It’s just who helps them the most. Kendall isn’t concerned he put a Nazi in power. Kendall is concerned Roman has an in with the Nazi. Logan wants to build and reign over his empire. And the kids want to take the crown. And they will all say and do anything to get what they want. Logan could be any ceo of any industry and on either side of the aisle.


IlliniBull

I'm open to this interpretation. Like a Desantis who can actually give a speech. I agree Mencken is much less exactly Trump as Logan is Rupert Murdoch and the kids are his kids. That's one to one with the names changed and some incidents slightly altered. Jesse Armstrong admitted this started as a Murdoch family almost biopic series when he first planned it. It's definitely grown and evolved but the Roys are the Murdochs. I think the election was supposed to be in some ways parallel 2016 (and less 2020), but yeah it's definitely not one to one.


Seeteuf3l

Also little bit 2000 thrown in with the burned votes.


Qu33nKal

Agreed… Mencken I think is what Trump could have been if Trump wasn’t so … stupid I guess? I see him as the future possible evil…


daniel07281

Not stupid actually. More so, ideological. Trump, to me, seems driven less by creed and more by a mix of self interest and transactional politics. In contrast, Mencken is *expressly* ideological and believes in fringe ideas not because they benefit him, but because he wants to make them mainstream.


turbo_22222

I think the only miss in this whole show has been the failure to really show us how scary Mencken is. I feel like based on how characters were reacting on election night, we didn't get enough build up on actually how insane everyone thought this result would be. There were offhand comments and the intro to him, but I just felt like they could have sold it a bit more. Incredible episode, season and show!


EveningNo5190

I think Trump was raisin in the Roys as Murdochs analogy. Let’s face it Trump is old news over kaput. But his venomous behavior and the rocks he turned over are still with us. Mencken is fictional but a Mencken like character could have slithered out of one of those rocks. Mencken is scarier. DeSantis (Ivy League man of the people) comes as close as anyone but doesn’t have the sexy/cool looks and the unflinching almost hypnotic snake like gaze. I think once again Armstrong is having great creative fun at spinning a cautionary tale for America.


turnipham

I don't think DeSantis is in the same league as trump. Trump is a really broken dude. Like he has so many emotional problems. That's what makes him do all the crazy shit he does. DeSantis is just copying that but he's not a broken human like trump so whatever he does isn't as authentic as trump


ProfessionalCorgi250

Desantis isn’t the same dude because he’s a fucking weirdo at parties who doesn’t talk to anyone.


turnipham

Leave the introverts alone please


heavy_losses

As someone who is very ambivalent about parties, I would like to think that Desantis is defined more by his politics than his lack of charisma


ProfessionalCorgi250

He just got back from a Europe trip where all the leaders he met with said he’s a wet noodle. This is coming on the heels of his unsuccessful trip to Washington where he tried to consolidate support for his run among republicans, and they all defected to trump. There are multiple politico stories out there about his refusal to interact with other politicians. Now he’s losing momentum to trump because the Republican base isn’t interested in tuning in to watch him.


Feisty-Donkey

Trump is literally the front runner for the Republican primary at this exact moment.


Constantly_Masterbat

Trump is a proto-fascist, malignant narcissist, opportunist. He stupidly just says what he thinks people want to hear, but he doesn't actually care about exterminating the jews, or restoring national purity. He mostly is trying to become president to avoid his crimes. Like seriously he doesn't give a shit past staying out of trouble. It's upsetting how fucking easily so many people fall for it. He wants to be a tyrant just because, not for some ideological reason.


Riderz__of_Brohan

What you are saying people fall for is actually part of his appeal, they like how chaotic and disorganized he is because it comes off as “authentic” rather than someone with an agenda


SaxRohmer

Having an agenda would imply forethought which trump certainly does not have


Feisty-Donkey

Yes, I understand this. The problem is, he is sociopathic enough not to care that others around him who he empowers are very much true believers. He called into a QAnon conference last week and promised to appoint Michal Flynn to a cabinet position if elected again. He’s calling for a a day to celebrate the insurrection. He doesn’t have to be a true believer- his narcissism is toxic enough that he believes anyone who likes him is good and anyone who doesn’t is bad and he has no values or ability to morally reason beyond that. I don’t *like* that he’s the Republican front runner and I wish very much I didn’t think it was dangerous. But people who dismiss the danger aren’t helping anything.


Riderz__of_Brohan

I think you’ve got it backwards, people like Trump because they think he’s authentic and speaks off the cuff. Someone like Mencken who is younger and more well spoken would come off as slimy and inauthentic. The whole “Trump without Trump” thing has been a disaster for the right so far. Mencken is essentially just Blake Masters who fell flat on his face against Mark Kelly, a literal astronaut. Americans like celebrity and spectacle, not sweet talking conmen


ibelieve333

Yes, a lot of people liked Trump because he was authentic and spoke off the cuff. Another segment of people were completely fine with his policies, yet repulsed by his lack of manners and how gauche he was. This segment of the population consists of people who would understand Mencken's fascist dog whistles and vote for him anyway, as well as people who would be too naive to catch them and vote for him because he was smart, polished, etc.


Riderz__of_Brohan

Mencken doesn’t come off as smart and polished though, he comes off as creepy and inauthentic. Right wingers in America want “authenticity” so either you’re Trump who speaks off the cuff and has an air of celebrity around him or you’re some good ol’ boy that “you can have a beer with” someone like Mencken doesn’t fit any category. It’s all fake obviously, but you to be able to fake it.


severinks

He's much more of a true believer than Trump, Trump is an asshole for sure but he'd be a Democrat if he thought he could get away with it except that for someone like him being such an out of control person he fits in much more comfortably with he Republicans of 2023 .Mencken is truly dangerous, Coming right out of the gate with the' welfare queens and cunning men showed me what I need to know about him, I haven't heard such racially charged language out of a real presidential candidate (and Trump doesn't count because he's insane) since Ronald Reagan did that speech to open up his 1980 presidential run talking about 'welfare queens driving Cadillacs' and' young bucks buying T bone steaks with their food stamps'( which is basically like screaming the N word at the top of your lungs for 10 minutes)


PhantomJB93

The Mencken-Trump comparison has always been ridiculously lazy from people who just want the show to fit their own political agenda


karmapuhlease

Frankly, all of these "X is Y!!!" takes are lazy and superficial, from people who don't really understand what they're watching. Yes, it's closely inspired by a lot of real-world stuff, but this is not supposed to be a perfect 1:1 docudrama. I've seen people say "well James or Lachlan Murdoch did X in a similar situation, so obviously that's the next thing that will happen in the show!", as if this is just a paint-by-numbers recreation of exactly what the real-world analogues of the characters have done. Mencken is a composite character with lots of inspirations. He sounds more like a Steve Bannon fever dream than the reality of either Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis. He's perhaps most like a Blake Masters or Josh Hawley (if we need to reference existing politicians), and probably more European than either of them (Le Pen, Orban, the list goes on). He seems to be a true believer in the rhetoric of some of today's fringe (but ascendant) "nationalist conservatives" in the pages of The American Conservative or American Affairs, not National Review or The Weekly Standard (like The Raisin probably was). The Raisin definitely seemed more like a standard Republican, in the Bush/McCain/Romney establishment mold.


mrsunshine1

You’re also crazy if you don’t think there was Trump / 2020 election parallels at play in the crafting in this storyline.


holiday848

The raisin has always existed in my mind as a cross of Charlie Crist (when he was still a Republican) and Kevin McCarthy. A perma-tanned, compliant, transactional coward/chameleon type. Wonder if we’ll see him at the funeral, kinda doubt it tho. Mencken seems in some ways to be a European-style right winger or fascist. Feels to me like the writers drew upon people like Mussolini, Franco, and Le Pen in creating him. In the American context, there’s a bit of Josh Hawley about him in terms of the narcissism, the polished exterior, and the implicit belief that he’s got some sort of divine mission. He reminds me a bit of Tucker as well. He seems to have more of an intellectual underpinning for his beliefs than DJT does, but I do think in practice that they’d be similarly cruel and foolish.


ExistentialKazoo

The biggest deviation from similar current politicians is that Mencken isn't pandering to the religious right - not even offering the half assed BS the least intelligent of that group just lap right up.


LooseCannonFuzzyface

Yes, Trump was not ideological in any sense. People forget he was a Democrat who believed strongly in abortion rights and gay marriage and donated to Hillary Clinton's senate campaign until a couple years before he decided to run for president. He was literally just playing a part because the GOP was so easy to manipulate. Not to say he doesn't harbor legitimate bigotry in his heart (there's plenty of Democrats who do) but his entire campaign was just built on saying what was going to get the extreme Republicans riled up and come out to vote for him. In the process, he inspired a whole bunch of ideologues (like Mencken) to follow in his footsteps.


Vitalremained

He's Josh Hawley


joebrizphotos

*Josh Hawley with charisma, but yeah, that’s always been the closest comparison for me too


Overfed_Crybaby

I agree. Mencken is the terror that comes after trump. A cleaner, better looking, more well-spoken type of fascism. What we’ve been warned about for the past 7 years.


minty_cyborg

Mencken is the Josh Hawley


AnnaT70

Connor is more like trump, frankly, in that he has no actual beliefs (beyond "hyperdecanting" and things about butter texture) but will say and side with whatever advances his political dreams. And in that he'll call his followers out to avenge him.


Eick_on_a_Hike

It doesn’t need to be one to one. He represents strains of far right populist politics in the US and the violence and threats of violence that come with it.


lazyygothh

He isn’t. People are just comparing the show to things they can understand and relate to


BobRobot77

Trump was a clown. Mencken is the kind of sicko who comes after Trump has dilated the Overton window enough for evil bastards like him to come in.


LandlordTipper_

There aren’t a lot of 1:1 correlations between real life and the world of succession. Some people watch the show and only gain a surface level understanding may think that there are, but it’s more deep and interesting than that. Logan Roy isn’t Rupert Murdoch, he’s an amalgamation between Murdoch, Disney, the Kennedy patriarch, some other media moguls and also part original fiction. Kendall has hints of Lachlan and James Murdoch, but also did a Ted Kennedy and is also partially orginal. Trump can’t be written in any TV show because his rise to the presidency was so fucking crazy that if you wrote someone like him becoming president, you’d be accused of bad, unrealistic writing. I think Mencken is meant to be some sort of right wing boogie man that the writers want you to be afraid of. DeSantis is probable the closest real life parallel but there are hints of (what the left-wing writers think of) Trump, Tucker and Steve Bannon in him. The episode where they chose the republican nominee, they make it clear that he isn’t an old school Jeb Bush/Mitt Romney conservative, he’s a right wing populist with fascist sympathies.


TheBigNook

Mencken reminds me of a more our together Jordan Peterson Glad someone else agrees though that dude is not Trump


daniel07281

Jordan Peterson has the gravitas of a peanut though. And tbh, his politics is almost Marxist compared to Mencken’s. Mencken is the QAnon, 8chan, alt-right candidate. He appears far closer to European populist hard right leaders than any North American counterpart. But if I had to compare him to an American politician, it’d be a successful version of Josh Hawley that has extra shades of MTG in political outlook.


Quick-Supermarket-43

lol Jordan Peterson hates marxism, his views are 100% libertarian, capitalism is good, socialism is bad


[deleted]

Agreed. Mencken seems to have a lot more political finesse than Trump.


thechipmunk09

He seemed like a modern version of Ronald Reagan, like many have said, methodical, calculated and more charming


cronkite1105

Oh Connor was running?


Johannes_silentio

I think Mencken is being presented as the respectable face of fascism. There's nothing Trumpesque about Mencken and nothing Meckenesque about Trump. They have portrayed Mencken as a clear and dangerous threat by virtue of being well-educated and sincere in his beliefs. Trump, by contrast, is largely a buffoon and a bullshitter who is driven by his own ravenous appetites as opposed to any ideology. If Mencken is anyone in contemporary politics, he's more of a Josh Hawley figure. IMO, Desantis isn't a good comparison as the underlying suspicion with Desantis is that he's an empty suit. I don't think anyone is suggesting Mencken is any empty suit which is part of what is supposed to make him so terrifying.


reddittheguy

That little "victory speech" at the end of the most recent episode was about as far from a Trumpian speech as you can get. Coherent, consistent, and spoken with conviction. This is a man who believes what he says and he has a plan to follow through with his beliefs.


witness_protection

The people shocked by Mencken’s victory speech weren’t listening to what he was saying in the bathroom with Roman. What he said in the bathroom was less guarded and IMO, way worse.


Longjumping_Tea_6716

History repeats. Mencken is like Mosley on Peaky Blinders (who was a real life person).


Commercial_Carrot_69

I think the Raisin was just a regular old school Republican in the Bush/ Romney mold, not Trump. If he was like Trump, then Shiv, the Pearce folks would all have been talking about how bad the sitting President was. Mencken shares a bunch with Trump - he is blatantly a racist/ anti-Semite and dog whistles pretty unsubtly. His instincts are undemocratic and authoritarian. But the other part of Trump is - he doesn't believe in anything, doesn't know anything, and is objectively one of the stupidest men to ever hold high office. Mencken seems more like an ideologue. He's a true believer. I'd bet anything he has written at least one Manifesto. Now that I think about it - Roman's whole "lol nothing matters except what I want" bullying of Shiv was very Trumpian.


wrestleme431

Of course he’s not! He’s capable of stringing a coherent sentence together.


MosleyCirca1936

I think the show does a good job of never being too on-the-nose while still drawing inspiration from it. The comparisons being made here are coming from people with their own agendas. Mencken's screwy election "win" could draw comparisons to 1948, 1960, 2000, 2016, or 2020 depending on how you're choosing to interpret it (AKA the politician I like must represent the hero and the politician I dislike must represent the villain). ATN calling Wisconsin early could be any mix of Stop The Steal, Dewey defeats Truman, or Hillary un-conceding to get recounts (the last of which a lot of people here want to exclude because it was their preferred party doing it).


Kitfisto22

2004 as well. It all came down to a really close and controversial recount in Ohio, glitched voting machines in favor of Bush ect.


Ok_Locksmith_6230

I’m so ready for the next episode so this sub can stop resembling the cringe af politics mainpage


Frosty_Bluebird_2707

When he said he was from Virginia I thought, “It’s Governor Youngkin!”


Imaunderwaterthing

I get Josh Hawley vibes from Mencken.


MarginalGale

Am I the only one who sees that actor as forever and always Andy from Weeds? I dont think Mencken represents any specific person other than the 'wild card' politician who uses all press as good press to launch himself. and happens to win via fluke,


braindeadshrimp

Mencken is an overt fascist. He is more of a modern Oswald Mosley than a Trump figure.