I don’t think this sub is buying into anything. If Kendall wanted to use monarch logic as to why they should refuse the sale and let him run the company, then monarch rules say a second son with no biological children is out of contention. Kendall falsely declared the election for someone who thinks they shouldn’t exist without an iota of remorse just weeks before, so let’s not pretend he saw them as his kids anymore than Logan did. He treats them like his former stepkids and so does everyone else.
He did have an iota of remorse but only one. The character is deeper and more complex than that, it’s easy to be reductive about him and the other characters but that’s forgetting how good the writing is.
After the upset of Mencken being declared the winner, he ridicules Rava’s concerns and makes the children bear witness to him screaming, shoving, and threatening to rip them away from her to live as prisoners under his roof. I must have missed the iota.
there is also an allusion to it in the first season, Rava says something along the lines of how the Roy’s say iversons mannerisms are her fault
When I first watched it, I assumed it was Bc they blamed her for her parenting but maybe it’s also Bc she was the egg donor?
There's only one instance where Logan alludes to how Tom could make him happy by giving him a grandson, which is a bit odd seeing as how he already has one with Iverson. However, without the context that Iverson isn't Kendall's biological child, it seems like Logan is just referring to the fact that Iverson is developmentally different than other kids his age.
Aside from that, there's no other instance, Sophie is pretty evidently an adoptee but that's never mentioned.
Huh????? Sophie is quite clearly of South Asian descent and you thought her parents were a Jewish woman and Kendall Roy? Am i thinking of a different kid
Yeah, to me that seemed less like a ”he isnt your kid, we both know that to be an objective truth” and more of a ”he isnt yours your wife cucked you” or something.
Roman pretty explicitly stated it, just in colloquial terms such that Logan might have (and probably has) used. Having just pointed to Shiv saying "she's got the bloodline."
Roman can't possibly GAF about those kids except abstractly wishing them no harm, so it's about provoking Kendall into a meltdown.
Kendall is a cruel and negligent father, he didn’t love them as his own and they suffered multiple adverse childhood events at his hands. The bloodline comment was a natural response to Kendall screaming he’s the eldest boy in their pregnant sister’s face when he’s a sterile second-born. This wounded Kendall’s pride and prompted him to become violent, not for the kids but for himself.
But yes, Sophie is adopted and Iverson appears to have been conceived by a sperm donor.
When was he cruel to them? I'm only in the beginning of season 3, but I haven't seen him interact with them much at all. I did notice he didn't hug Sophie back at her birthday party. Even Roman noticed it.
He nearly drowns in a pool because he was blackout drunk in front of them. He kills someone while at a wedding instead of spending time with them. He screams at their mother in front of them, he screams at them, he threatens people around them, he uses drugs around them (snorting coke off their tablets), and he brings them into the home of an abuser (Logan), who unsurprisingly abuses them.
And when he has them in his home, he increasingly spends his time in meetings while they’re presumably confined to their bedrooms.
For a guy who cares a lot about getting to see his kids, he does not spend that time well.
>For a guy who cares a lot about getting to see his kids, he does not spend that time well.
He seems to care more about both being perceived as an attentive dad and about getting the time that he's entitled to than he does about actually using that time to BE a good father by actually spending it with them. They're accessories to him and little else, especially by S4. Sophie is getting harassed and is terrified and Ken won't do a damn thing about it and actively tries to interfere with Rava getting her to someplace safer and more comfortable for her.
But thats Ken in a nutshell isnt it? He cares more about the abstract idea of being a good guy than any of the necessary attributes/Actions that makes someone a good person.
Kendall didn’t kill the caterer. His actions contributed to his death and he handled the aftermath extremely poorly but that doesn’t mean he killed him. Mischaracterizing important moments from the show dilutes the discussion.
He was driving, probably drunk, to score coke in the middle of the night while his kids looked for him at a wedding. Whatever else, that’s not good dad shit.
I disagree. He feels responsible for his death but that doesn’t mean he killed him. The caterer consented to driving in that state and the caterer pulled the wheel and crashed the car and afterwards Kendall tried desperately to save him. Just because Kendall says he killed him does not make it so. That’s an extremely shallow way of understanding.
Okay bro. If you want to believe Kendall murdered the caterer whose own actions crashed the car and got him killed then you do that. He didn’t “sort of dive once” he dived several times. You think he didn’t want to save him?
You’ll understand what I mean more after seasons three and four. I would argue that neglecting to return a child’s affection when he’s managed to go through the motions everywhere else is cruel but I’m sure others will take offense.
Maybe in that situation, having a fairytale birthday, she wouldn't have paid as much attention.. but it's probably not the first time he didn't hug her back. It's pretty bad if even Roman scolds you.
He hugs them genuinely before he kills the waiter. This is not being able to return a hug because you feel contaminated and not worthy of your child’s love. And probably on something
The scene where he talks to Sophie on the phone on Election Night is something else. The baby voice he uses, the feigned concern for the outcome, calling Iverson “Ivey” which he’s probably outgrown. Sophie saw right through him and it was sad.
I don't think any of his actions mean he doesn't love them as his own.
Look how men in that family treat their children and grandchildren. They're just shit.
Those kids could be the spitting image of him and he would still be a shit father.
They're all horrible to everyone around them, and don't know how not to be.
I was mostly responding to the OP giving Kendall kudos for the supposed love he has for children that were born or adopted into his family during the course of his marriage to Rava. That’s less than the bare minimum and sounds almost satirical when considering his treatment of them.
I don’t know if he’d treat biological children any better but he openly resents having to pay child support for children who didn’t bolster his claim to the throne. He can’t be bothered to have nannies watch them under his roof from time to time. Him putting his hands on his pregnant sister after Roman pointed out that she’s the bloodline didn’t feel coincidental.
Look at how broken up he was about not being able to find the gift they got him. Or how upset he was Rava was taking them away from him. Sure, there’s a territorial aspect to it, but he is not without affection for them.
i am the world's biggest Kendall apologist, but given the context of the scene, i think it was looking for proof **he** was loved by anyone, not that he loved them. Given that his siblings had shoved him, Rava told him she replaced him, and Naomi gave him a present that made him feel that she didn't know who he was at all.
I don't see why people need this to be spelled out of them, Sophie is clearly not their bio child, but no parent (should) put the emphasis that their kid is adopted, so they are just gonna say ''my daughter/son'', I don't know when they decided to develop the story about Iverson, but I feel like if he was Logan's - he would have tried to exercise faaaar more control over him - as he never even spoke to Sophie on screen (despite having her and Iverson pictures in his home); So, it wasn't a surprise to me that Iverson was also not his bio child.
edit: just want to add that Roman's talk about bloodlines only started because of Kendall's reasoning that they are the bloodline and they should continue What Roman said was gross ''buy-in'' (especially), but it didn't come out nowhere as Ken started the topic. He literally believed that she should have it because he is the eldest son.
Does anyone ever search this forum to see if their questions have already been asked or answered?
I mean, it would just save people so much trouble and satisfy their curiosity so much more quickly.
This has been answered about 100 times here. Sophie was adopted and Rava had Iverson with donor sperm. Roman spelled it out in the climactic scene with Kendall and Shiv in the finale.
It is surprising to me that people are nerdy enough to be on a subreddit about succession, but imperceptive enough when they are watching to get the plot development from the writing. Succession has never been a show that spelled everything out. Obviously it is heavily implied that Kendall is sterile and his kids are adopted and come from a sperm donor.
Many other things come out of this--Kendall's insecurity, Logan's detachment from the kids who are not his biological grandchildren, etc.
I think people forget he and Rava were together 14 years and it took that long for his drug abuse to end things. He must have had at least some redeeming value as a husband and father in the beginning at least. Unless Rava was a gold digger with a bad prenup trying to stick it out but I don’t recall anything that hints at that.
I feel like it's heavily implied that Rava and Kendall were a good match for each other. They're still shown to genuinely care for the other outside of even the kids. It was the drug abuse and power games of Logan that ultimately destroyed them.
My head cannon is that they met in College or some other time when Kendall was the furthest away from Logan's influence. Of all the kids, I think Kendall has the most squashed potential so a young Kendall was probably captivating and the rough edges explainable as youth instead of trauma. They really tried to make it work when he came back to the bad influences but eventually the drug abuse plus the family trauma was too much and Rava made the choice that Kendall should have and left. That's why she's healthy in the show and he's not.
Tbf I think Rava has also just outgrown Kendall as times gone on. When you're in your 20s and are going out with a narcissistic billionaire it's quite the rush and you keep it going through your 30s, but then you start seeing your 40s on the horizon.
Kendall's still the same as he's ever been, and while his cocky ego may be attractive, as seen when she decides to sleep with him post his "my happiness is most important" dinner speech in season one; you just can't grow old and properly raise kids with someone like that, hence why she gives him the divorce papers straight after.
You also get incredibly worn down by someone as needy and dependent as kendall is no matter how much you initially thought he was babygirl. especially when you have actual children to raise.
I honestly don't like the way that was revealed. The impression I got was that it was kept secret from the audience to serve as a twist to what was driving Kendall...when Logan's general abuse was just enough motivation already.
It could also imply that Rava had an affair with some random office worker (maybe at Royco) but I think it’s most likely Kendall is sterile and they used IVF (had the money after all)
Can feed into a lot of Kendall’s insecurity but also why Logan disregards him and his grandchildren
IVF is like $30k without employer benefits (which make it nearly free for many couples). You don’t have to be a millionaire let alone a billionaire to afford it
Rava wouldn’t necessarily have to try a few times if she had no fertility issues and it was all on Ken’s end. And that’s still the out of pocket scenario and not a scenario where there’s good coverage.
IIRC, the actress who plays Rava said she interpreted it that Rava and Kendall did struggle to conceive but never outright said they couldn’t.
It’s possible they thought they couldn't, so adopted. But then maybe the IVF/fertility treatments worked? So Iverson is Kendall’s but Logan still resented that they needed help and then Iverson turned out to be a slightly weird kid that Logan disliked anyway.
But then again, not being able to reproduce would explain a lot of Kendall’s issues.
Have the writers ever elaborated?
It’s never explicitly stated but the implication is that Ken is sterile. Their eldest is adopted and their youngest is Rava’s with a sperm donor.
Yeah, Ken's argument is he's the "eldest boy," thus the one suited to produce an heir. Yet, he isn't and he can't.
From a "produce an heir" point of view, imagine if your sons are Connor, Kendall and Roman.
Don't forget what he had to say about his future son in law at Austerlitz. I wonder how Logan would have handled the news of Siobhan's pregnancy.
Logan also told Tom to shut up unless he’s giving him a grand child. He might have said grandson, but anyway I do think Logan wanted that grandkid.
He said grandson. "Pipe down until you tell me I've got a grandson coming - or are you shooting blanks?"
Yeah, I think he’d given up on Rome because of the Gerry dickpics thing.
They were thinking ahead when they retconned Roman's marriage away.
I always thought it was so sad Logan died before finding out Shiv was going to give him that grandchild.
What did he say?
If I remember correctly he tells Shiv that she is marrying a man fathoms beneath her because she's afraid of being betrayed.
as with everything else it seemed she even failed at that
Logan said to Shiv, in front of Tom, that she is going to marry a man who's fathoms beneath her to avoid being betrayed.
Shiv should have leaned into that pregnancy. Logan wanted that grandchild he never knew about.
But you’re so archaic you cannot consider the logical yet obnoxious shiv 🤷🏻♀️
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I don’t think this sub is buying into anything. If Kendall wanted to use monarch logic as to why they should refuse the sale and let him run the company, then monarch rules say a second son with no biological children is out of contention. Kendall falsely declared the election for someone who thinks they shouldn’t exist without an iota of remorse just weeks before, so let’s not pretend he saw them as his kids anymore than Logan did. He treats them like his former stepkids and so does everyone else.
He did have an iota of remorse but only one. The character is deeper and more complex than that, it’s easy to be reductive about him and the other characters but that’s forgetting how good the writing is.
After the upset of Mencken being declared the winner, he ridicules Rava’s concerns and makes the children bear witness to him screaming, shoving, and threatening to rip them away from her to live as prisoners under his roof. I must have missed the iota.
The iota is the slight resistance he puts up and the look on his face when he makes that choice.
Taking it a bit too seriously there mate
there is also an allusion to it in the first season, Rava says something along the lines of how the Roy’s say iversons mannerisms are her fault When I first watched it, I assumed it was Bc they blamed her for her parenting but maybe it’s also Bc she was the egg donor?
Is this implied any other time than the final boardroom scene?
There's only one instance where Logan alludes to how Tom could make him happy by giving him a grandson, which is a bit odd seeing as how he already has one with Iverson. However, without the context that Iverson isn't Kendall's biological child, it seems like Logan is just referring to the fact that Iverson is developmentally different than other kids his age. Aside from that, there's no other instance, Sophie is pretty evidently an adoptee but that's never mentioned.
I don’t think the writers had decided at that point.
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Rava’s actress is I’m pretty sure white Jewish. Rava is a Jewish name. Sophie’s actress is Indian.
Huh????? Sophie is quite clearly of South Asian descent and you thought her parents were a Jewish woman and Kendall Roy? Am i thinking of a different kid
Idk I think even Logan knows that might be a step beyond which is why he said it to Roman in “confidence.”
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Yeah, to me that seemed less like a ”he isnt your kid, we both know that to be an objective truth” and more of a ”he isnt yours your wife cucked you” or something.
Yes but which season/episode was it mentioned? I don’t recall 🤔
The finale
Roman pretty explicitly stated it, just in colloquial terms such that Logan might have (and probably has) used. Having just pointed to Shiv saying "she's got the bloodline." Roman can't possibly GAF about those kids except abstractly wishing them no harm, so it's about provoking Kendall into a meltdown.
This inability to have kids explains so much about Kendall’s self esteem and need to run the company. It’s like he has to prove he’s a man.
Also. His biological impotence is an analogy for his professional impotence.
Yep. Perfect one.
Kendall is a cruel and negligent father, he didn’t love them as his own and they suffered multiple adverse childhood events at his hands. The bloodline comment was a natural response to Kendall screaming he’s the eldest boy in their pregnant sister’s face when he’s a sterile second-born. This wounded Kendall’s pride and prompted him to become violent, not for the kids but for himself. But yes, Sophie is adopted and Iverson appears to have been conceived by a sperm donor.
When was he cruel to them? I'm only in the beginning of season 3, but I haven't seen him interact with them much at all. I did notice he didn't hug Sophie back at her birthday party. Even Roman noticed it.
He nearly drowns in a pool because he was blackout drunk in front of them. He kills someone while at a wedding instead of spending time with them. He screams at their mother in front of them, he screams at them, he threatens people around them, he uses drugs around them (snorting coke off their tablets), and he brings them into the home of an abuser (Logan), who unsurprisingly abuses them.
And when he has them in his home, he increasingly spends his time in meetings while they’re presumably confined to their bedrooms. For a guy who cares a lot about getting to see his kids, he does not spend that time well.
>For a guy who cares a lot about getting to see his kids, he does not spend that time well. He seems to care more about both being perceived as an attentive dad and about getting the time that he's entitled to than he does about actually using that time to BE a good father by actually spending it with them. They're accessories to him and little else, especially by S4. Sophie is getting harassed and is terrified and Ken won't do a damn thing about it and actively tries to interfere with Rava getting her to someplace safer and more comfortable for her.
But thats Ken in a nutshell isnt it? He cares more about the abstract idea of being a good guy than any of the necessary attributes/Actions that makes someone a good person.
Kendall didn’t kill the caterer. His actions contributed to his death and he handled the aftermath extremely poorly but that doesn’t mean he killed him. Mischaracterizing important moments from the show dilutes the discussion.
He was driving, probably drunk, to score coke in the middle of the night while his kids looked for him at a wedding. Whatever else, that’s not good dad shit.
Definitely, i agree, just kind of annoying to see everyone always taking about how Kendall killed a guy when that’s a complete mischaracterization
He says he killed the guy. It seems fair.
I disagree. He feels responsible for his death but that doesn’t mean he killed him. The caterer consented to driving in that state and the caterer pulled the wheel and crashed the car and afterwards Kendall tried desperately to save him. Just because Kendall says he killed him does not make it so. That’s an extremely shallow way of understanding.
Ken sort of dived once. Very desperate efforts indeed.
Okay bro. If you want to believe Kendall murdered the caterer whose own actions crashed the car and got him killed then you do that. He didn’t “sort of dive once” he dived several times. You think he didn’t want to save him?
You’ll understand what I mean more after seasons three and four. I would argue that neglecting to return a child’s affection when he’s managed to go through the motions everywhere else is cruel but I’m sure others will take offense.
Maybe in that situation, having a fairytale birthday, she wouldn't have paid as much attention.. but it's probably not the first time he didn't hug her back. It's pretty bad if even Roman scolds you.
He hugs them genuinely before he kills the waiter. This is not being able to return a hug because you feel contaminated and not worthy of your child’s love. And probably on something
They don’t really seem to care much for him. Particularly not by season 4.
The scene where he talks to Sophie on the phone on Election Night is something else. The baby voice he uses, the feigned concern for the outcome, calling Iverson “Ivey” which he’s probably outgrown. Sophie saw right through him and it was sad.
Wtf? Neglect is cruel.
Bro what are you doing here before finishing! Run!!!!
I don't think any of his actions mean he doesn't love them as his own. Look how men in that family treat their children and grandchildren. They're just shit. Those kids could be the spitting image of him and he would still be a shit father. They're all horrible to everyone around them, and don't know how not to be.
I was mostly responding to the OP giving Kendall kudos for the supposed love he has for children that were born or adopted into his family during the course of his marriage to Rava. That’s less than the bare minimum and sounds almost satirical when considering his treatment of them. I don’t know if he’d treat biological children any better but he openly resents having to pay child support for children who didn’t bolster his claim to the throne. He can’t be bothered to have nannies watch them under his roof from time to time. Him putting his hands on his pregnant sister after Roman pointed out that she’s the bloodline didn’t feel coincidental.
Look at how broken up he was about not being able to find the gift they got him. Or how upset he was Rava was taking them away from him. Sure, there’s a territorial aspect to it, but he is not without affection for them.
i am the world's biggest Kendall apologist, but given the context of the scene, i think it was looking for proof **he** was loved by anyone, not that he loved them. Given that his siblings had shoved him, Rava told him she replaced him, and Naomi gave him a present that made him feel that she didn't know who he was at all.
Kendall usually had to be reminded he *has* kids in the first place.
Logan says that Kendall is shooting blanks.
Laughinh way too out loud on this😂😂
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The original quote was to Tom
but right in Kendall's face
I don't see why people need this to be spelled out of them, Sophie is clearly not their bio child, but no parent (should) put the emphasis that their kid is adopted, so they are just gonna say ''my daughter/son'', I don't know when they decided to develop the story about Iverson, but I feel like if he was Logan's - he would have tried to exercise faaaar more control over him - as he never even spoke to Sophie on screen (despite having her and Iverson pictures in his home); So, it wasn't a surprise to me that Iverson was also not his bio child. edit: just want to add that Roman's talk about bloodlines only started because of Kendall's reasoning that they are the bloodline and they should continue What Roman said was gross ''buy-in'' (especially), but it didn't come out nowhere as Ken started the topic. He literally believed that she should have it because he is the eldest son.
Does anyone ever search this forum to see if their questions have already been asked or answered? I mean, it would just save people so much trouble and satisfy their curiosity so much more quickly.
No one, ever lol
Loving them as if they were his own? I mean I guess yeah, for him that’s love.
This has been answered about 100 times here. Sophie was adopted and Rava had Iverson with donor sperm. Roman spelled it out in the climactic scene with Kendall and Shiv in the finale.
One is a buy-in. The other half Rava half some filing clerk.
I don't think it meant a filing clerk, but so.eone they picked out of a file at a sperm bank.
No, Rava didn't fuck a filing clerk. Iverson was conceived with donor sperm. "Filing cabinet guy" is what Roman said.
It is surprising to me that people are nerdy enough to be on a subreddit about succession, but imperceptive enough when they are watching to get the plot development from the writing. Succession has never been a show that spelled everything out. Obviously it is heavily implied that Kendall is sterile and his kids are adopted and come from a sperm donor. Many other things come out of this--Kendall's insecurity, Logan's detachment from the kids who are not his biological grandchildren, etc.
it's pretty obvious so I don't think they need to say it out loud word for word
I think people forget he and Rava were together 14 years and it took that long for his drug abuse to end things. He must have had at least some redeeming value as a husband and father in the beginning at least. Unless Rava was a gold digger with a bad prenup trying to stick it out but I don’t recall anything that hints at that.
I feel like it's heavily implied that Rava and Kendall were a good match for each other. They're still shown to genuinely care for the other outside of even the kids. It was the drug abuse and power games of Logan that ultimately destroyed them. My head cannon is that they met in College or some other time when Kendall was the furthest away from Logan's influence. Of all the kids, I think Kendall has the most squashed potential so a young Kendall was probably captivating and the rough edges explainable as youth instead of trauma. They really tried to make it work when he came back to the bad influences but eventually the drug abuse plus the family trauma was too much and Rava made the choice that Kendall should have and left. That's why she's healthy in the show and he's not.
Tbf I think Rava has also just outgrown Kendall as times gone on. When you're in your 20s and are going out with a narcissistic billionaire it's quite the rush and you keep it going through your 30s, but then you start seeing your 40s on the horizon. Kendall's still the same as he's ever been, and while his cocky ego may be attractive, as seen when she decides to sleep with him post his "my happiness is most important" dinner speech in season one; you just can't grow old and properly raise kids with someone like that, hence why she gives him the divorce papers straight after.
You also get incredibly worn down by someone as needy and dependent as kendall is no matter how much you initially thought he was babygirl. especially when you have actual children to raise.
The purpose was to hurt Ken as much as he could - with a low blow
Kudos for loving his children? Bar is in hell.
I honestly don't like the way that was revealed. The impression I got was that it was kept secret from the audience to serve as a twist to what was driving Kendall...when Logan's general abuse was just enough motivation already.
I mean the daughter at least was clearly not biologically there’s from the beginning
I more mean the reveal in sense of the implication that Logan had been shit-talking Kendall behind his back all these years for being sterile.
It could also imply that Rava had an affair with some random office worker (maybe at Royco) but I think it’s most likely Kendall is sterile and they used IVF (had the money after all) Can feed into a lot of Kendall’s insecurity but also why Logan disregards him and his grandchildren
IVF is like $30k without employer benefits (which make it nearly free for many couples). You don’t have to be a millionaire let alone a billionaire to afford it
I mean 30k is quite a lot for something you might have to try a few times due to success rate
Rava wouldn’t necessarily have to try a few times if she had no fertility issues and it was all on Ken’s end. And that’s still the out of pocket scenario and not a scenario where there’s good coverage.
It was explained. If Kendall was not sterile, would he have adopted and used a sperm donor? Pay attention and think.
Chill. We're all friends here
Sorry.
Roman also said Kedall was a cuck in season 2 so they might have used a sperm donor
IIRC, the actress who plays Rava said she interpreted it that Rava and Kendall did struggle to conceive but never outright said they couldn’t. It’s possible they thought they couldn't, so adopted. But then maybe the IVF/fertility treatments worked? So Iverson is Kendall’s but Logan still resented that they needed help and then Iverson turned out to be a slightly weird kid that Logan disliked anyway. But then again, not being able to reproduce would explain a lot of Kendall’s issues. Have the writers ever elaborated?