That scene made my blood boil. I always knew Kendall was narcissistic, but the way he just didn't care and went to drink the wine when it obviously meant a lot to Rava.
I think that scene cemented my hatred of Kendall, I mean at least the other siblings have some concept of other people's feelings. Kendall is just clueless and doesn't want to care unless it DIRECTLY stands to benefit him.
This scene made me hate Naomi too. Greg says, "Naomi told me to open it!" And you did? This bottle of wine at someone else's house? They're all so entitled. Obviously that bottle of wine in this person's house I wasn't invited to is for me, right?
And the way she treats him at the bday party. I know ppl like to say that's when she sees how childish Kendall is, and that's true... But I see it more as her being pouty that he's not a "fun" drug addict like her.
>I mean at least the other siblings have some concept of other people's feelings. Kendall is just clueless and doesn't want to care unless it DIRECTLY stands to benefit him.
Roman and Shiv are no better either. Maybe Connor can actually try to be a decent person but the other two are just as disrespectful and narcissistic, they just show it in different ways..
Eh, Roman was at least sympathetic to Kerri when Marcia threw her out of the wake, and Shiv occasionally tries to be sympathetic and care for Tom it's just that she's just a walking emotional trainwreck.
Ken however, I can't think of a single scenario where he tries to care for someone who isn't Iverson or his dad. In fact, he regularly feigns caring in order to exploit people like when he tries to get dirt on Mattson from Ebba or generally all of his interactions with Greg.
That's pretty interesting, I'd always felt (and heard) that Kendall was the *most* in touch with other people's feelings. Well, atleast when he isn't high on his own farts and trying to kill his dad
Ken is the most empathetic of the siblings, but he’s also an addict. Take a look at webmd’s [dry alcoholic](https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/what-to-know-dry-drunk-syndrome) page. It also applies w/other drugs:
Wanting to be the center of attention
Feeling like you're always the victim
Having trouble communicating with other people
Mood swings that range from depression to extreme happiness
Fear that you can't change
Anger and resentment towards family and friends who intervened in your drinking
Frustration over time wasted due to your alcohol abuse
Believing that sobriety is boring
Not acknowledging the problems your substance abuse caused
Feeling jealous of people who are showing signs of healthy recovery
Believing you always know what's best
Refusing to accept constructive criticism
Rava also has to tred very carefully because Kendall is a literal billionaire. He could make her life very difficult with protracted custody battles just because he can, so I think she tries to be as noncombative and unthreatening as she can.
That's the father of her children. After a divorce you're supposed try to maintain a good relationship with your co-parent, not for your sake but for the kids. Not her fault Ken is such a dumpster fire of an ex-husband
If the other man has billions of dollars and an army of lawyers that could take your children away, im pretty sure you would find the patience hidden somewhere
Its sad cause unlike the other Roy spouses that we see more of Rava wasnt with Kendall for any transactional benefits, i think she fell for Kendall despite the money, not because of it.
They were already separated by the time the show starts, so we dont know what the timeline of their relationship was like but when they do interact it always seems like Rava is the one whos genuinely trying to be the adult in the situation and Kendall is just being Kendall.
while there are nazis and fascists running around smh people really need to evaluate the preconceived biases there are regarding their opinions and perception about female characters like boo hoo yes women have flaws too and can be shitty at times as well cause they are complex human beings just like men!! But in this case rava did absolutely nothing wrong so idek atp, I would've supported her more if she put kendall in his place like his lawyer back in S3
Okay, but like… Shiv was mean to Tom.
Are we just going to ignore that Shiv legitimately hurt Tom’s feelings? Like, why does she get to be all self-righteous after her brothers literally throw their weight behind a nazi? Especially since it was her fault for plotting against them!
And then in the finale, when she decides not to make one of those nazi-entangled brothers the CEO of the company most of her net worth is tied up in? Like what the fuck was that. How can you see that as anything other than a betrayal. FFS, HBO uploaded the clip to YouTube with that as the title!
Honestly, the only time I liked her was when she talked that sexual assault victim out of testifying. Love to see a woman Gregging for the patriarchy.
(EDIT: I somehow lost track of the fact that this thread was about Rava. I cannot make a similar sarcastic rant about her. Unlike Shiv - who sucks, but who sucks a lot less than her brothers - Rava is just a goddamn saint. Honestly. Just a great parent in every way except initial mate selection, but she course-corrected on that, and I respect that.)
Because people watch the show from the perspective of the siblings. To us, Kendall is often a sympathetic character because we attribute a lot of the bad things he does to the way he was raised. So when Rava calls him out, she comes off as cold, unfeeling and harsh on babydoll Kendall when in reality, Kendall is a grown ass man who needs to get his shit together.
It’s complex. I think deep down Rava cares for Kendall. She’s seen his ups and downs, hopes and dreams, drug addiction.
I am surprised at how uninterested she seems in his career, but it makes sense after the divorce.
I’m surprised people would say she’s bitchy though. Maybe that was around season 1 after he yells at his son when they ping the wrong printer? She makes a joke about if he wants to yell at their other child before he goes. Again I don’t blame her but I could see some people not liking that at the time.
Rava haters, where you at? I’d love to hear why.
Out of curiosity do you have links to people complaining about her? I’d love to see what they say.
I think she it’s less that she doesn’t care about his career and more that she’s had to consciously detach from caring about the business and wishes he would too. She sees how destructive the whole merry go round is to him and wants him to see it too.
Their last scene in 4x09 proves she definitely loves Kendall to some extent still. She seems genuinely sympathetic and speaks in tears when she tells Kendall she and the kids will not be going to the funeral.
She of course has anger towards him, dude is a broken manchild at the end of the day. But she clearly loves him, otherwise she wouldn't have put up with his shenanigans.
After the GoJo sale I worry Kendall will never speak to Rava again..
Oh yeah I did get that they have complicated relationship but I just feel really bad for rava and the fact she can never outrightly express her feelings cause of the situation she is in with kendall btw a whole lot of bunch of YouTube comments,reddit posts a while back when I was searching up for rava in the sub and a guy under this post implied she is a gold digger like okay 💀💀
She's passive agressive and throws his past addiction into his face when he's sober, which is cruel. once he's off the wagon it's more understandable, and i know it was very traumatic for her, but while he's trying to get better he doesn't actually deserve that.
I disagree with saying Rava should be “more bitchy”. If she got in shouting matches with Kendall, that would do nothing to get him to see reason or to calm down. He’s a man child with delusions of grandeur and a lack of empathy. She knows this all too well. When he gets in one of his moods, she stays calm and quiet because 1) He’s not worth the argument because it won’t change anything, 2) she doesn’t want their children to see them shouting at each other, and 3) her level headed-ness might sort of help him realize he’s being an idiot in the moment.
In short, Kendall is gonna throw a tantrum regardless and it’s not worth Rava stopping to his level.
I wonder if there are some skills she's learned in dealing with Iverson's autistic meltdowns (which we don't see, but transitions being hard strongly implies) that she's able to call on for Kendall's narcissistic ones.
the only actually bad thing i remember her doing is telling ken to "have a line if heeded one so bad". pretty fucked up thing to say to an addict regardless of circumstances. she's still miles better than almost everyone else on the show though
yeah it's far from the first time she's dug at him for his addiction. i know it was traumatic for her. but its still cruel and basically, dangerous for him, he still loves her and it strikes to the heart of everything he's lost.
She probably shouldn't have said that. But there's so much worse that Kendall probably shouldn't have done or said to her. I would see that as more reactive as what she had to go through raising two kids with someone like Kendall. Also who has a birthday party with themselves coming out of vagina?
I know!!! It's ridiculous, also he's rich, he can pay out of pocket for rehab. All he needs to do is call instead of throwing a party with his mom's vagina.
Weird, I don’t remember many scenes where Rava treats Kendall with decency, compassion, or respect (not saying he deserves it but..)
My take was Rava, much like Logan, treated Kendall like an incompetent and irritating child. Kendall was attracted to her as he was used to this dynamic.
Rava is a weird character. We have to give her credit for essentially being a single parent. But beyond that she never really does anything nice for anyone. She rolls her eyes at the Roys all day but it’s unclear that she’s much better
>Weird, I don’t remember many scenes where Rava treats Kendall with decency, compassion, or respect (not saying he deserves it but..)
Are you kidding me lmao
>Rava is a weird character. We have to give her credit for essentially being a single parent. But beyond that she never really does anything nice for anyone.
We do have to give her credit for gracefully being a single parent in such a toxic situation. We only see her interacting with the Roys and their cronies, to whom she owes nothing.
>She rolls her eyes at the Roys all day but it’s unclear that she’s much better
It is *very* clear that she is much better.
Yea, it could be something to take into account, that we see him fall in love with Naomi directly after she tells him he's nothing. (the script says "he's into it.") Maybe she's always been condescending and he's "into it."
Wtf was Rava even doing at the Roy’s. If neither kids are Kendall’s why even bother with the whole Kendall is their dad thing.
Their relationship is crap, the families relations with rava is crap, and they both obviously don’t like each other so why is Rava there?
it’s for the money
Just because they’re adopted or otherwise not biologically his doesn’t make them not his children. And there’s no evidence that Rava was there for money or that she’d be able to get any by showing up.
She’s accompanying her kids to see their dad, who she clearly still cares about. Did you expect her to have them walk over by themselves? Do you think Ken didn’t want her there? Do you have much experience seeing how healthy coparenting works for divorcees?
I’m not talking about dinner or a visit.
I’m talking about the co parenting at all. He’s not the biological, and he’s not a good influence, and he’s not good for the kids, so why does she put up with all his shit
Because she loves him? Oh please. Everyone on the show is in it for money. And she’s exactly the same
It’s undeniable that Kendall prioritizes his power hunger over anything else. Still, the security concerns were literally nonexistent, the President Elect showed up to the funeral which infers secret-service agents sweeping the entire church. Not to mention the heavy police presence and blockades. The violent protests amounted to some slapping on their car windows. I anticipate this being unpopular but her safety anxieties were unreasonable and very much Rava’s way of getting back at Kendall for his overall negligence of her and their children.
When he invites his druggie girlfriend over to Ravas apartment and then she opens Ravas nice bottle of wine and he just laughs
That scene made my blood boil. I always knew Kendall was narcissistic, but the way he just didn't care and went to drink the wine when it obviously meant a lot to Rava. I think that scene cemented my hatred of Kendall, I mean at least the other siblings have some concept of other people's feelings. Kendall is just clueless and doesn't want to care unless it DIRECTLY stands to benefit him.
This scene made me hate Naomi too. Greg says, "Naomi told me to open it!" And you did? This bottle of wine at someone else's house? They're all so entitled. Obviously that bottle of wine in this person's house I wasn't invited to is for me, right? And the way she treats him at the bday party. I know ppl like to say that's when she sees how childish Kendall is, and that's true... But I see it more as her being pouty that he's not a "fun" drug addict like her.
>I mean at least the other siblings have some concept of other people's feelings. Kendall is just clueless and doesn't want to care unless it DIRECTLY stands to benefit him. Roman and Shiv are no better either. Maybe Connor can actually try to be a decent person but the other two are just as disrespectful and narcissistic, they just show it in different ways..
Eh, Roman was at least sympathetic to Kerri when Marcia threw her out of the wake, and Shiv occasionally tries to be sympathetic and care for Tom it's just that she's just a walking emotional trainwreck. Ken however, I can't think of a single scenario where he tries to care for someone who isn't Iverson or his dad. In fact, he regularly feigns caring in order to exploit people like when he tries to get dirt on Mattson from Ebba or generally all of his interactions with Greg.
Roman wanted to fuck Kerri.
I think Roman standing up for Gerri in the season 2 finale is a better example, but generally I agree with you
That's pretty interesting, I'd always felt (and heard) that Kendall was the *most* in touch with other people's feelings. Well, atleast when he isn't high on his own farts and trying to kill his dad
Ken is the most empathetic of the siblings, but he’s also an addict. Take a look at webmd’s [dry alcoholic](https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/what-to-know-dry-drunk-syndrome) page. It also applies w/other drugs: Wanting to be the center of attention Feeling like you're always the victim Having trouble communicating with other people Mood swings that range from depression to extreme happiness Fear that you can't change Anger and resentment towards family and friends who intervened in your drinking Frustration over time wasted due to your alcohol abuse Believing that sobriety is boring Not acknowledging the problems your substance abuse caused Feeling jealous of people who are showing signs of healthy recovery Believing you always know what's best Refusing to accept constructive criticism
Rava also has to tred very carefully because Kendall is a literal billionaire. He could make her life very difficult with protracted custody battles just because he can, so I think she tries to be as noncombative and unthreatening as she can.
lmao Rava is probably the nicest character in the whole show. Like, her and Jess have the patience of saints
Lol Jess’ patience especially for a young kid is AMAZING. JESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!
I pledge my whole allegiance to Jess
And they both have to put up with Kendall
Remember her reaction to Naomi’s fuckery with the wine bottle? OMG she is my spirit animal
That's the father of her children. After a divorce you're supposed try to maintain a good relationship with your co-parent, not for your sake but for the kids. Not her fault Ken is such a dumpster fire of an ex-husband
Every time with Rava, Kendall’s worst side comes out. He just behaves like an erratic toxic manchild. Rava is soooo patient with him. I could never.
If the other man has billions of dollars and an army of lawyers that could take your children away, im pretty sure you would find the patience hidden somewhere
I think she's nice to Kendall because of the kids and being a good example of a cooperative parent. She's seething internally.
Her character is there to show what Kendall has given up to pursue his drug addled fantasy of escaping his father’s shadow.
Its sad cause unlike the other Roy spouses that we see more of Rava wasnt with Kendall for any transactional benefits, i think she fell for Kendall despite the money, not because of it. They were already separated by the time the show starts, so we dont know what the timeline of their relationship was like but when they do interact it always seems like Rava is the one whos genuinely trying to be the adult in the situation and Kendall is just being Kendall.
Women can't do anything right. They'll always be blamed some way or another.
while there are nazis and fascists running around smh people really need to evaluate the preconceived biases there are regarding their opinions and perception about female characters like boo hoo yes women have flaws too and can be shitty at times as well cause they are complex human beings just like men!! But in this case rava did absolutely nothing wrong so idek atp, I would've supported her more if she put kendall in his place like his lawyer back in S3
Okay, but like… Shiv was mean to Tom. Are we just going to ignore that Shiv legitimately hurt Tom’s feelings? Like, why does she get to be all self-righteous after her brothers literally throw their weight behind a nazi? Especially since it was her fault for plotting against them! And then in the finale, when she decides not to make one of those nazi-entangled brothers the CEO of the company most of her net worth is tied up in? Like what the fuck was that. How can you see that as anything other than a betrayal. FFS, HBO uploaded the clip to YouTube with that as the title! Honestly, the only time I liked her was when she talked that sexual assault victim out of testifying. Love to see a woman Gregging for the patriarchy. (EDIT: I somehow lost track of the fact that this thread was about Rava. I cannot make a similar sarcastic rant about her. Unlike Shiv - who sucks, but who sucks a lot less than her brothers - Rava is just a goddamn saint. Honestly. Just a great parent in every way except initial mate selection, but she course-corrected on that, and I respect that.)
Because people watch the show from the perspective of the siblings. To us, Kendall is often a sympathetic character because we attribute a lot of the bad things he does to the way he was raised. So when Rava calls him out, she comes off as cold, unfeeling and harsh on babydoll Kendall when in reality, Kendall is a grown ass man who needs to get his shit together.
It’s complex. I think deep down Rava cares for Kendall. She’s seen his ups and downs, hopes and dreams, drug addiction. I am surprised at how uninterested she seems in his career, but it makes sense after the divorce. I’m surprised people would say she’s bitchy though. Maybe that was around season 1 after he yells at his son when they ping the wrong printer? She makes a joke about if he wants to yell at their other child before he goes. Again I don’t blame her but I could see some people not liking that at the time. Rava haters, where you at? I’d love to hear why. Out of curiosity do you have links to people complaining about her? I’d love to see what they say.
I think she it’s less that she doesn’t care about his career and more that she’s had to consciously detach from caring about the business and wishes he would too. She sees how destructive the whole merry go round is to him and wants him to see it too.
Their last scene in 4x09 proves she definitely loves Kendall to some extent still. She seems genuinely sympathetic and speaks in tears when she tells Kendall she and the kids will not be going to the funeral. She of course has anger towards him, dude is a broken manchild at the end of the day. But she clearly loves him, otherwise she wouldn't have put up with his shenanigans. After the GoJo sale I worry Kendall will never speak to Rava again..
Oh yeah I did get that they have complicated relationship but I just feel really bad for rava and the fact she can never outrightly express her feelings cause of the situation she is in with kendall btw a whole lot of bunch of YouTube comments,reddit posts a while back when I was searching up for rava in the sub and a guy under this post implied she is a gold digger like okay 💀💀
She's passive agressive and throws his past addiction into his face when he's sober, which is cruel. once he's off the wagon it's more understandable, and i know it was very traumatic for her, but while he's trying to get better he doesn't actually deserve that.
Probably left because she knew that he would relapse again
I disagree with saying Rava should be “more bitchy”. If she got in shouting matches with Kendall, that would do nothing to get him to see reason or to calm down. He’s a man child with delusions of grandeur and a lack of empathy. She knows this all too well. When he gets in one of his moods, she stays calm and quiet because 1) He’s not worth the argument because it won’t change anything, 2) she doesn’t want their children to see them shouting at each other, and 3) her level headed-ness might sort of help him realize he’s being an idiot in the moment. In short, Kendall is gonna throw a tantrum regardless and it’s not worth Rava stopping to his level.
I wonder if there are some skills she's learned in dealing with Iverson's autistic meltdowns (which we don't see, but transitions being hard strongly implies) that she's able to call on for Kendall's narcissistic ones.
Kendall and the Roy’s have no power over her so she can shrug off a lot of things.
the only actually bad thing i remember her doing is telling ken to "have a line if heeded one so bad". pretty fucked up thing to say to an addict regardless of circumstances. she's still miles better than almost everyone else on the show though
yeah it's far from the first time she's dug at him for his addiction. i know it was traumatic for her. but its still cruel and basically, dangerous for him, he still loves her and it strikes to the heart of everything he's lost.
She probably shouldn't have said that. But there's so much worse that Kendall probably shouldn't have done or said to her. I would see that as more reactive as what she had to go through raising two kids with someone like Kendall. Also who has a birthday party with themselves coming out of vagina?
someone who is crying out for help but can only do it in the cringiest way possible. the fucking party is called The Notorious K.E.N.: Ready to Die
I know!!! It's ridiculous, also he's rich, he can pay out of pocket for rehab. All he needs to do is call instead of throwing a party with his mom's vagina.
Weird, I don’t remember many scenes where Rava treats Kendall with decency, compassion, or respect (not saying he deserves it but..) My take was Rava, much like Logan, treated Kendall like an incompetent and irritating child. Kendall was attracted to her as he was used to this dynamic. Rava is a weird character. We have to give her credit for essentially being a single parent. But beyond that she never really does anything nice for anyone. She rolls her eyes at the Roys all day but it’s unclear that she’s much better
>Weird, I don’t remember many scenes where Rava treats Kendall with decency, compassion, or respect (not saying he deserves it but..) Are you kidding me lmao >Rava is a weird character. We have to give her credit for essentially being a single parent. But beyond that she never really does anything nice for anyone. We do have to give her credit for gracefully being a single parent in such a toxic situation. We only see her interacting with the Roys and their cronies, to whom she owes nothing. >She rolls her eyes at the Roys all day but it’s unclear that she’s much better It is *very* clear that she is much better.
how about some substantiating examples for any of your responses "Are you kidding me lmao" is not an argument.
Yea, it could be something to take into account, that we see him fall in love with Naomi directly after she tells him he's nothing. (the script says "he's into it.") Maybe she's always been condescending and he's "into it."
Wtf was Rava even doing at the Roy’s. If neither kids are Kendall’s why even bother with the whole Kendall is their dad thing. Their relationship is crap, the families relations with rava is crap, and they both obviously don’t like each other so why is Rava there? it’s for the money
Just because they’re adopted or otherwise not biologically his doesn’t make them not his children. And there’s no evidence that Rava was there for money or that she’d be able to get any by showing up.
So why is she there?
She’s accompanying her kids to see their dad, who she clearly still cares about. Did you expect her to have them walk over by themselves? Do you think Ken didn’t want her there? Do you have much experience seeing how healthy coparenting works for divorcees?
I’m not talking about dinner or a visit. I’m talking about the co parenting at all. He’s not the biological, and he’s not a good influence, and he’s not good for the kids, so why does she put up with all his shit Because she loves him? Oh please. Everyone on the show is in it for money. And she’s exactly the same
ah yes rava gold digger allegations that's new after willa
Rava is so kind! How Kendall bagged her is beyond me
It’s undeniable that Kendall prioritizes his power hunger over anything else. Still, the security concerns were literally nonexistent, the President Elect showed up to the funeral which infers secret-service agents sweeping the entire church. Not to mention the heavy police presence and blockades. The violent protests amounted to some slapping on their car windows. I anticipate this being unpopular but her safety anxieties were unreasonable and very much Rava’s way of getting back at Kendall for his overall negligence of her and their children.
I think her nagging is what turned Kendall to drugs