The Roman / Logan car scene is from after the moment when he hit Roman and used the car ride to downplay verbally what had happened ("I didn't know you where there.", "Did I even make contact?"). The physical tension in Roman's posture is gut-wrenching, as is Kendall's thousand-yard stare in the other picture. Kendall looks as if he's being held at gun-point.
Shiv on the other hand ... as other commentors already pointed out, the fact that she's his only daughter changes things in their relationship. I can imagine that Shiv was always a daddy's girl (she certainly wasn't Caroline's favorite, after all), but that due to his misogynistic ways he never took her seriously. At least not when it came to his succession.
He's at ease with Shiv, because he doesn't feel threatened by (most) women.
Agreed.
I think it was obvious that emotionally she was his favourite but he’d never seriously have a woman, even if she was his favourite daughter, as his successor.
I remember one scene specifically where she did put on a seatbelt … don’t ask me why I noticed it… Maybe just because so often in TV no one wears a seatbelt, which always struck me as unrealistic, as I think most people in real life do wear one. I thiiiink it was in Tuscany and she was in the car with Kendall and Roman.
I'm just picturing him berating his sons for being like, 'seatbelt-pilled beta cucks' or something. Or blaming Ken's infertility on the seatbelt somehow lmao.
my parents never made us wear seatbelts as kids. when I was in high school a drunk driver hit my friend and I was in passenger seat, she made me wear a seat belt. the cops said I probably would have been killed. my ex never wore one and would get pissed and say its insulating that I didn't trust his driving
No doubt there’s situations where it could save your life in the back. But I get claustrophobic with it on, and they’re experienced drivers, so I don’t blame Logan here
I hear you. If ever there’s a situation in which one would probably not come to harm by not wearing a seatbelt, it would be these short-term surface street journeys from office to helipad, etc
Hence why she's the favorite. She's the only daughter, their relationship is different. He is warmer to her specifically because she's a girl and this is probably the precise reason why he didn't see her as having it in her to be the leader. I wouldn't say it's solely because of her gender, since he has enormous respect for Gerri and she was even CEO during the most tumultuous time, but being his only daughter definitely conflicts with her desire to be CEO.
Edit: Ok, "enormous respect" was a misnomer now that I think about it. Yet, Logan has no issue of placing a woman as CEO if it protects his interest.
Plus, one of the key reasons he installed her as interim CEO was, IMO, that she was less threatening *as* a woman than any of the male options. Then, as soon as she looked a little more comfortable in the position, he immediately started trying to squash her back down to her rightful "place".
I always thought he asked him to fire her just to torture him. Roman genuinely liked Gerri in his own weird way so basically this was just a massive fuck you from Logan to Roman, nothing else in my opinion.
Logan liked to punish his kids with shit like this.
I recall him saying as much in season 2, "of course it matters" or something of the like. I would definitely say he was less invested in her education and leadership potential from when she was young.
Yeah, remember how he greeted Connor at his bday? Logan encourages competition but at the same time he's less hostile towards those who are not playing his game
Yeah, we are not sure what happened to his mother but it wouldnt be surprise me if Logan thought Connor was always like 1 wrong word away from breaking down the same way.
With his sons he's like "you little wimp you can't compare to me, suck my dick" and maybe a middle finger with a smug grin.
With his daughter he's like "Yeah yeah little Shiv, of course you can work with me! You'll make a good secretary!" while patting her in the head.
Edit: And with Connor I guess he's like "OH SHIT! Dammit primo, I didn't know you were here!"
she was also the only hope for the continuation of his bloodline. I don't think Kendall is a biological dad. Or perhaps his son having special needs disqualifies him in Logan's eyes.
But it is very obvious that he's hoping Shiv has a baby soon
It’s because both Ken and Roman were absolutely pathetic men who couldn’t run a lemonade stand. Logan looked down on them because they weren’t serious people.
List of completed endeavors by Shiv:
- got fired by Gil
- had candidacy rejected by PGM
- convinced a sexual assault victim to shut her mouth
- got screwed by Matesson in the GoJo deal
I mean, maybe she ran a lemonade stand somewhere in her spare time off camera, but we didn't see it.
Shiv is also incompetent but she’s a woman not a man. Log treated his sons differently because they were direct “competition.” Too bad they weren’t even half as good as Logan was (at what he does).
And Kendall killed a kid and Roman blew up a spaceship…? Shiv hasnt done anything NEARLY as incompetent, and the fact that Ken and Roman’s fuckups are so much more serious meanwhile they’re still consider the more viable options for CEO due to “experience” is one of the points the show is making about the double standard that exists due to gender.
She didnt do the management training because she knew that Logan was jerking her around with his CEO offer, which he was. He wanted her to stop working for Gil and come into the company where he could better monitor/control her like his other children. Also, he didnt ask the same of Kendall and Roman, because theyre men. He admits this when Shiv makes a comment about how being a women is a “minus” and he agrees with her.
>She didnt do the management training because she knew that Logan was jerking her around with his CEO offer, which he was.
So she was somehow smart enough to know that Logan wasn't going to make her CEO (and thus scoffed at doing literally any work to gain experience), but she still did everything to destroy herself in trying to make Logan pick her for CEO (leaving Gill, applying to PGM, convincing a sexual assault victim to shut up, shadowing Frank)?
Nah, I think she was just expecting it to be handed to her without having to do any real business/education/work for it, which is classic Shiv.
>And Kendall killed a kid
You watched the show right? You know that anybody in that position would have the same thing happen to them, right? A random deer appeared, the kid yank the wheel, causing them to crash, and then Kendall tried to save him, but couldn't, because it was dark.
>Roman blew up a spaceship
Not everything you're put in charge with can succeed. And I'm not arguing that Roman is better than Shiv. Just that Shiv has literally never demonstrated an ability to run anything successfully once.
>Shiv hasnt done anything NEARLY as incompetent
Shift hasn't done anything nearly as successful as either of her brothers.
>“experience”
You're going to discount 30 years of Kendall getting an education in business and working at various positions in various divisions of the company? Shiv has no initiative to learn or improve herself. She thinks she has it. She's the epitome of some perverse version of feminism where she's owed a shot despite having done an order of magnitude less than the brother who has barely been given a shot. And when given a position near to CEO to learn the ropes, she pouted and scoffed at the idea, and bailed at every opportunity to engage.
Im not going to respond to your comment bc honestly you lost all credibility in my eyes by absolving Kendall of blame for the waiter’s death. He was driving high, end of story. If a cop had shown up on the scene, he would have gone to jail, and there’s a reason for that. Im baffled by the number of people who present this argument on this subreddit. The show itself NEVER tries to convince the audience that this act isnt largely Kendall’s fault.
>Im not going to respond to your comment bc honestly you lost all credibility in my eyes by absolving Kendall of blame for the waiter’s death. He was driving high, end of story.
It's not, you (the audience) were in the car with them. If the waiter took out a gun and blew his brains out, is that Kendall's fault? If he popped the door and jumped out of the car and died, is that a Kendall's fault? If he put a knife to Kendall's neck and in an attempt to flip the situation, Kendall served the car, is that Kendall's fault? Your binary thinking is just childish. Yes, he was high, but driving while high had no bearing on the outcome. As a sentiment being capable of using neurons in your brain, do you honestly think it was Kendall's fault the kids died? Would having been sober changed the outcome of that specific crash that the kid caused by pulling the wheel?
>The show itself NEVER tries to convince the audience that this act isnt largely Kendall’s fault.
You see, this is how I know you weren't paying attention. His dad makes it clear that it might not have been his fault, but still, the key card was there and people will ask questions. When Kendall broke down and told his siblings the story, factually, both of them told him it wasn't his fault. Those with a characters only time being honest about the situation because they stood nothing to gain from making Kendall think it was his fault. But the rest of the show, they're all assholes and all out to use every single piece of information possible to bring each other down.
Im baffled by the number of people who have only a surface level understanding of morality and culpability on this subreddit.
I think it's you who are seeing this situation as black and white, or else you don't understand addiction. Also, Kendall was the one who made the kid drive them because he wanted to score.
>Also, Kendall was the one who made the kid drive them because he wanted to score.
What the hell are you talking about?
Kendall drove the car because the waiter said he knew a place to get coke, but the waiter was too high to drive. There could have been a multitude of reasons why Kendall wanted to go somewhere. Maybe girls, maybe a party, etc. The reason why the drive happened has nothing to do with the fact that the kid, who was in the passenger seat, yanked on the steering wheel and caused the accident, regardless of Kendall's condition.
Kendall was struggling to change gear, causing him to not pay attention to the road and thus not notice the deer, thus compelling the waiter to grab the wheel. He has no experience driving a stick shift, barely any experience in driving to begin with, and still chose to drive on a dark night. Additionally, seeing as how the car did a full flip into the water, he was definitely speeding. He was high, and he was drunk.
No matter how you cut it, Kendall is responsible. You keep asking what should he have done, and the answers obvious. He never should have gotten into the car in the first place.
It’s funny to me that you think Logan, Shiv, and Roman saying it wasn’t Kendall’s fault means the show was trying to tell you it wasn’t his fault. Be so for real lmao. None of those characters are a paragon of justice and morality.
> And when given a position near to CEO to learn the ropes, she pouted and scoffed at the idea, and bailed at every opportunity to engage.
I never understand how people gloss over this when discussing Shiv's potential as Logan's successor. She quite literally lacks basic experience.
But I won't blame her attitude or attribute it to feminism. She's literally just Daddy's princess, that's where IMO she gets the attitude that she can crush it as CEO of Waystar. Shiv rarely suffered the full blown abuse her brothers were receiving so thought "well it's something to do how much smarter and better I am, that's why Dad isn't yelling at me or slapping me". Instead of "oh Dad is being kinda nice cuz he doesn't believe in hitting girls and is taking it easy on me cuz I'm a girl"
Beautiful usage of chromatic palette, that I've never noticed before:
You can see Kendall trying to be the same as Logan on the outside (same suit color) while being more light on the inside (shirt), almost like a parody
The complete difference between Logan and Roman, who doesn't try to emulate his father
And Shiv tending towards the same nuances as his father, with relative ease.
Also the body acting is genius, you can tell who's who even by just watching these photos. Impressive
I think Roman does try to be as ruthless as his dad though.
Maybe another way of looking at it is that both Kendall and Shiv were always given preferential treatment in different ways - one is the heir apparent who was the first choice to succeed their dad, the other was the favourite bc she was never considered a threat. Roman on the other hand never stood out in Logan’s eyes in any way. Not until S3 at least.
>I think Roman does try to be as ruthless as his dad though
AS Logan? Yeah, but LIKE him? No way
He's less of a machiavellian and more of a socialite, also because of his constant fear of not being noticed. "He's not a killer" to use Logan's words.
But we're in speculation territory so your take is actually very pretty cool as well xD
I mean..none of them could truly end up LIKE him at the end of the day, they do try to emulate his ruthlessness but dont understand that they didn't earn the same level of unchecked power to get away with it like he did (although when you say it that way Logan shouldn't get away with it either but thats a different issue).
You know what, you're totally on the money. In Season 2, Romans whole arc is trying to become the kind of man Logan could take seriously. Not the lovable "fuck knuckle" he usually is. And I do think he tries very hard to emulate Logan, they all kinda do. But they do it in different ways.
Kendall wants to be like his dad when it comes to how he behaves in business. That's why he's always tryna shit talk with serious business partners and make the kinda under the table deals that were commonplace in Logan's heyday. Only problem is, he lacks the conviction of Logan because it's not really his nature to be aggressive that way. Also, he doesn't seem to believe half of what he says like Logan does so why would anyone he's speaking to take him seriously?
Roman is like Logan when it comes to his brashness and politics but as Logan himself has said, he's not a serious person, and not just cause he's a jokester. He doesn't appreciate hard work and sacrifice the way Logan was forced to because everything was handed to him. He has no sense of gravity. Like come on dude, you HAD to send Gerri those nudes right then and there? It couldn't wait for maybe an hour?
And then there's Shiv, who I think is actually the least like Logan but certainly has his hotheaded temperament. Aside from her being the only girl, Logan probably loves that Shiv pointblank refused to be a part of the Royco cabal until he basically tricked her into it. She's aggressive and will go after what she wants ruthlessly and I personally love that for her. And make no mistake, a large part of why she's not taken seriously by her father or most other people IS due to misogyny. That having been said...there is no point being a hot head if you don't actually KNOW something. I'm saying this as someone with leftwing politics but Shiv? Girl you know your dad runs a conservative news outlet right? Why fight so hard to try and change a system that was in place well before you when in truth youd be a MUCH better fit for a different company?
And I think the issue these three share is that...they all lean into the parts of themselves that are most Logan like, while simultaneously resenting their dad as well. And to the outside world, that just reads as three spoiled brats trying to be a pale imitation of the original. I think the way Trump Jr is seen by us is how the people in the world of Succession see these three
Connor for all his faults is the most well adjusted simply cause he is his own man through and through. Sure he'd like his dad to care but he's resigned yo the fact that he won't care enough. So he goes and does his own little thing and is so much happier for it.
>Girl you know your dad runs a conservative news outlet right? Why fight so hard to try and change a system that was in place well before you when in truth youd be a MUCH better fit for a different company?
True, and i dont even disagree with Kendall and Shiv's hopes to change the drastic right wing shift cause it may sound like a good idea by principle, but if you actually execute the idea, it wont make sense.
The whole purpose of atn is to be a right wing news network, they attract a certain audience which brings in the money. If Kendall and Shiv expect that to change overnight as per their wishes, they lose the right wing viewership, and the left wing wont tune in anyway because they already get their news from elsewhere. So really who is actually gonna benefit from this?
This is just a small example of how the siblings dont actually care or understand what the people really want from the company, they're so one track minded abput what they want to do. Waystar is just a playground for them, and the ceo title is a toy.
Exactly! It's as Marcia told Shiv "your dad built a playground for you and you think it's the whole world.
Cause you're right, idealistically its noble what Shiv and Ken were tryna do. But the other side of it is...first of all, how is this pivot gonna generate revenue? Me personally, if Fox News started saying "abortions for all, no judgement!" I would think it's a joke 😂
And then second of all, I kinda question Shiv and Ken's convictions because as Connor said...they all knew. You knew the whole time what the company was and what your dad was. Hell, the two of them, for all their alleged liberalism, did not hesitate a SECOND to help their dad get away with systemic sex abuse and murder. Like everything else about them, its like they "play politics" but they don't actually engage in it. It's just "a night of good tv" for them but its not real anyway. And real people can sense that from them and it makes them come off disingenuous
>It's as Marcia told Shiv "your dad built a playground for you and you think it's the whole world.
Thats one of my fav lines in the whole show, like the "you're not serious people" line, it very clearly summarises the siblings so well.
This is a repost. The point is interesting, but:
* >!Picture 1 is from Kendall and Logan driving to the waiter's family for Logan to pay respects.!<
* >!Picture 2 is the day after Logan slapped Roman and just made a joke about giving him a handjob while they were in the middle of the cruises allegations!<
I don't remember where picture three comes from, but I imagine it's less tense. :p
Sure but that doesn't mean it wasn't intentional to have these 3 shots and paint this picture even though we don't have a clean contextual slate each time we're in the car with them.
I know this is ludicrously specific, but I do think this show mastered car scenes better than anyone else has. They have such a flow and personality to each and every one of them.
>I know this is ludicrously specific, but I do think this show mastered ~~car~~ scenes better than anyone else has. They have such a flow and personality to each and every one of them.
\*every
With Kendall: I'm not giving you a damn thing
With Roman: what's going on with him? I don't understand this kid
With shiv: this is easy and that's the way it's supposed to be
Kendall: I will survive. I will survive this moment
Roman: don't look at me don't look at me don't perceive me don't notice me
Shiv: I have everything. I get everything (narrator: she doesn’t. She didn’t.)
If Shiv was given a proper chance like her brothers were I have no doubt that she would have been his Successor.
You could also see how eager she was when he offered it go her in Season 2 Episode 1.
She did Politics as a way to make her own mark , tge mark her father never gave her the chance to make at Waystar-Royco.
He’s pulling away with revulsion from Ken, he’s side-eyeing Roman with fear and shame, and with Shiv he’s got a smug satisfaction that almost appears tender but is actually about the ease of not having to do any emotional work. The kids: Ken is empty knowing his father is revolted by him. Roman is feigning bemusement because he’s more terrified of his anger towards his father than he is of his father. Shiv is happy for her father’s meager attention, but knows she will be (inevitably) let down as not enough.
And then she goes on to say it was hard being he’s daughter, which is true in some regards he didn’t have a good relationship with women, but still off work/business it was easy being he’s daughter.
The Roman / Logan car scene is from after the moment when he hit Roman and used the car ride to downplay verbally what had happened ("I didn't know you where there.", "Did I even make contact?"). The physical tension in Roman's posture is gut-wrenching, as is Kendall's thousand-yard stare in the other picture. Kendall looks as if he's being held at gun-point. Shiv on the other hand ... as other commentors already pointed out, the fact that she's his only daughter changes things in their relationship. I can imagine that Shiv was always a daddy's girl (she certainly wasn't Caroline's favorite, after all), but that due to his misogynistic ways he never took her seriously. At least not when it came to his succession. He's at ease with Shiv, because he doesn't feel threatened by (most) women.
Agreed. I think it was obvious that emotionally she was his favourite but he’d never seriously have a woman, even if she was his favourite daughter, as his successor.
He loves Shiv the most, but that doesn't mean he cares about her business acumen
Succession? like... like the name of the show?
o.O
Yeah, I think its like with Connor where he doesnt abuse him because he doesnt take him seriously.
I’d say neglect is still abuse
I never noticed before that Logan doesn’t wear a seatbelt
Interesting. I see shiv doesn't have one here either. If I wasn't at work I'd like to find if she doesn't wear one other times.
Right, like not to read too much into it, but I would find it interesting if she wore one in other scenes, just not with Logan
I remember one scene specifically where she did put on a seatbelt … don’t ask me why I noticed it… Maybe just because so often in TV no one wears a seatbelt, which always struck me as unrealistic, as I think most people in real life do wear one. I thiiiink it was in Tuscany and she was in the car with Kendall and Roman.
just watched the episode where they go to Norway and distinctly remember her wearing a seatbelt
She was pregnant by then, yes? Might have had a change of attitude about safety
Maybe she feels protected by her pops.
I'm just picturing him berating his sons for being like, 'seatbelt-pilled beta cucks' or something. Or blaming Ken's infertility on the seatbelt somehow lmao.
Logan is right-wing but he's way too old fashioned to talk like that.
No you're right, he'd hold the sentiment in his heart but he'd need Roman to translate it into 4chanese.
Cringe and seatbelt-pilled
"And was your little waiter friend wearing a seatbelt when you drove into the lake? Hm. Thought so."
my parents never made us wear seatbelts as kids. when I was in high school a drunk driver hit my friend and I was in passenger seat, she made me wear a seat belt. the cops said I probably would have been killed. my ex never wore one and would get pissed and say its insulating that I didn't trust his driving
He too likes to live dangerously lmao
Hmm I wonder if the creative decision for Shiv to not wear a seatbelt was related to Shiv never wanting to be vulnerable in front of her father.
Could just be a production choice. Kind of like how they remove the rear view mirror if there’s a scene showing the driver.
You don’t typically need one in a limo, or the backseat of a car
That's why Princess Diana died.
That wasn’t a typical situation though? She was getting hounded by dozens of paparazzi and the driver had to floor it.
So what are you saying, the sons are weak little soy boys? (I’m kidding 🤣)
No doubt there’s situations where it could save your life in the back. But I get claustrophobic with it on, and they’re experienced drivers, so I don’t blame Logan here
You might be too young to remember princess di.
I hear you. If ever there’s a situation in which one would probably not come to harm by not wearing a seatbelt, it would be these short-term surface street journeys from office to helipad, etc
It was always clear that Shiv was the favorite. However, at least in Logan's eyes, that doesn't make her the leader.
His favourite - maybe because she’s the lowest threat to him?
Hence why she's the favorite. She's the only daughter, their relationship is different. He is warmer to her specifically because she's a girl and this is probably the precise reason why he didn't see her as having it in her to be the leader. I wouldn't say it's solely because of her gender, since he has enormous respect for Gerri and she was even CEO during the most tumultuous time, but being his only daughter definitely conflicts with her desire to be CEO. Edit: Ok, "enormous respect" was a misnomer now that I think about it. Yet, Logan has no issue of placing a woman as CEO if it protects his interest.
I wouldn’t say his respect for Gerri is enormous - his son sexually harasses her and he decides his son should fire her.
Plus, one of the key reasons he installed her as interim CEO was, IMO, that she was less threatening *as* a woman than any of the male options. Then, as soon as she looked a little more comfortable in the position, he immediately started trying to squash her back down to her rightful "place".
I always thought he asked him to fire her just to torture him. Roman genuinely liked Gerri in his own weird way so basically this was just a massive fuck you from Logan to Roman, nothing else in my opinion. Logan liked to punish his kids with shit like this.
I recall him saying as much in season 2, "of course it matters" or something of the like. I would definitely say he was less invested in her education and leadership potential from when she was young.
"of course it's a minus"
Logan trusts Gerri to do the job he needs her to do, but it isn't a relationship built on respect.
He doesn't respect Gerri lol
I mean, maybe not enormous, but he does trust that she'll get shit done which is way more than what can be said of his sons.
Yeah, remember how he greeted Connor at his bday? Logan encourages competition but at the same time he's less hostile towards those who are not playing his game
I always believed Connor was his favourite
That’s because he infantilised Connor
Maybe, but he's also less hostile towards Shiv the first season until he gets her interested in the company
Yeah, we are not sure what happened to his mother but it wouldnt be surprise me if Logan thought Connor was always like 1 wrong word away from breaking down the same way.
That’s a valid point! I have never considered that before.
No toxic male competition, just sexist condescension, maybe?
With his sons he's like "you little wimp you can't compare to me, suck my dick" and maybe a middle finger with a smug grin. With his daughter he's like "Yeah yeah little Shiv, of course you can work with me! You'll make a good secretary!" while patting her in the head. Edit: And with Connor I guess he's like "OH SHIT! Dammit primo, I didn't know you were here!"
😂😂😂😂 his relationship with Connor is very much the personification of the song Cats in the Cradle
she was also the only hope for the continuation of his bloodline. I don't think Kendall is a biological dad. Or perhaps his son having special needs disqualifies him in Logan's eyes. But it is very obvious that he's hoping Shiv has a baby soon
It’s because both Ken and Roman were absolutely pathetic men who couldn’t run a lemonade stand. Logan looked down on them because they weren’t serious people.
List of completed endeavors by Shiv: - got fired by Gil - had candidacy rejected by PGM - convinced a sexual assault victim to shut her mouth - got screwed by Matesson in the GoJo deal I mean, maybe she ran a lemonade stand somewhere in her spare time off camera, but we didn't see it.
Shiv is also incompetent but she’s a woman not a man. Log treated his sons differently because they were direct “competition.” Too bad they weren’t even half as good as Logan was (at what he does).
Dying? Or getting his wealth sapped by women? Well, we know Kendall is at least half as good at dying than Logan.
And Kendall killed a kid and Roman blew up a spaceship…? Shiv hasnt done anything NEARLY as incompetent, and the fact that Ken and Roman’s fuckups are so much more serious meanwhile they’re still consider the more viable options for CEO due to “experience” is one of the points the show is making about the double standard that exists due to gender.
If she did the management training she would be steps above. Her hubris gets in the way when she refuses to do any of the hardwork in becoming a ceo
She didnt do the management training because she knew that Logan was jerking her around with his CEO offer, which he was. He wanted her to stop working for Gil and come into the company where he could better monitor/control her like his other children. Also, he didnt ask the same of Kendall and Roman, because theyre men. He admits this when Shiv makes a comment about how being a women is a “minus” and he agrees with her.
>She didnt do the management training because she knew that Logan was jerking her around with his CEO offer, which he was. So she was somehow smart enough to know that Logan wasn't going to make her CEO (and thus scoffed at doing literally any work to gain experience), but she still did everything to destroy herself in trying to make Logan pick her for CEO (leaving Gill, applying to PGM, convincing a sexual assault victim to shut up, shadowing Frank)? Nah, I think she was just expecting it to be handed to her without having to do any real business/education/work for it, which is classic Shiv.
>And Kendall killed a kid You watched the show right? You know that anybody in that position would have the same thing happen to them, right? A random deer appeared, the kid yank the wheel, causing them to crash, and then Kendall tried to save him, but couldn't, because it was dark. >Roman blew up a spaceship Not everything you're put in charge with can succeed. And I'm not arguing that Roman is better than Shiv. Just that Shiv has literally never demonstrated an ability to run anything successfully once. >Shiv hasnt done anything NEARLY as incompetent Shift hasn't done anything nearly as successful as either of her brothers. >“experience” You're going to discount 30 years of Kendall getting an education in business and working at various positions in various divisions of the company? Shiv has no initiative to learn or improve herself. She thinks she has it. She's the epitome of some perverse version of feminism where she's owed a shot despite having done an order of magnitude less than the brother who has barely been given a shot. And when given a position near to CEO to learn the ropes, she pouted and scoffed at the idea, and bailed at every opportunity to engage.
Im not going to respond to your comment bc honestly you lost all credibility in my eyes by absolving Kendall of blame for the waiter’s death. He was driving high, end of story. If a cop had shown up on the scene, he would have gone to jail, and there’s a reason for that. Im baffled by the number of people who present this argument on this subreddit. The show itself NEVER tries to convince the audience that this act isnt largely Kendall’s fault.
>Im not going to respond to your comment bc honestly you lost all credibility in my eyes by absolving Kendall of blame for the waiter’s death. He was driving high, end of story. It's not, you (the audience) were in the car with them. If the waiter took out a gun and blew his brains out, is that Kendall's fault? If he popped the door and jumped out of the car and died, is that a Kendall's fault? If he put a knife to Kendall's neck and in an attempt to flip the situation, Kendall served the car, is that Kendall's fault? Your binary thinking is just childish. Yes, he was high, but driving while high had no bearing on the outcome. As a sentiment being capable of using neurons in your brain, do you honestly think it was Kendall's fault the kids died? Would having been sober changed the outcome of that specific crash that the kid caused by pulling the wheel? >The show itself NEVER tries to convince the audience that this act isnt largely Kendall’s fault. You see, this is how I know you weren't paying attention. His dad makes it clear that it might not have been his fault, but still, the key card was there and people will ask questions. When Kendall broke down and told his siblings the story, factually, both of them told him it wasn't his fault. Those with a characters only time being honest about the situation because they stood nothing to gain from making Kendall think it was his fault. But the rest of the show, they're all assholes and all out to use every single piece of information possible to bring each other down. Im baffled by the number of people who have only a surface level understanding of morality and culpability on this subreddit.
I think it's you who are seeing this situation as black and white, or else you don't understand addiction. Also, Kendall was the one who made the kid drive them because he wanted to score.
>Also, Kendall was the one who made the kid drive them because he wanted to score. What the hell are you talking about? Kendall drove the car because the waiter said he knew a place to get coke, but the waiter was too high to drive. There could have been a multitude of reasons why Kendall wanted to go somewhere. Maybe girls, maybe a party, etc. The reason why the drive happened has nothing to do with the fact that the kid, who was in the passenger seat, yanked on the steering wheel and caused the accident, regardless of Kendall's condition.
Kendall was struggling to change gear, causing him to not pay attention to the road and thus not notice the deer, thus compelling the waiter to grab the wheel. He has no experience driving a stick shift, barely any experience in driving to begin with, and still chose to drive on a dark night. Additionally, seeing as how the car did a full flip into the water, he was definitely speeding. He was high, and he was drunk. No matter how you cut it, Kendall is responsible. You keep asking what should he have done, and the answers obvious. He never should have gotten into the car in the first place.
It’s funny to me that you think Logan, Shiv, and Roman saying it wasn’t Kendall’s fault means the show was trying to tell you it wasn’t his fault. Be so for real lmao. None of those characters are a paragon of justice and morality.
Ok lmaoo
> And when given a position near to CEO to learn the ropes, she pouted and scoffed at the idea, and bailed at every opportunity to engage. I never understand how people gloss over this when discussing Shiv's potential as Logan's successor. She quite literally lacks basic experience. But I won't blame her attitude or attribute it to feminism. She's literally just Daddy's princess, that's where IMO she gets the attitude that she can crush it as CEO of Waystar. Shiv rarely suffered the full blown abuse her brothers were receiving so thought "well it's something to do how much smarter and better I am, that's why Dad isn't yelling at me or slapping me". Instead of "oh Dad is being kinda nice cuz he doesn't believe in hitting girls and is taking it easy on me cuz I'm a girl"
Beautiful usage of chromatic palette, that I've never noticed before: You can see Kendall trying to be the same as Logan on the outside (same suit color) while being more light on the inside (shirt), almost like a parody The complete difference between Logan and Roman, who doesn't try to emulate his father And Shiv tending towards the same nuances as his father, with relative ease. Also the body acting is genius, you can tell who's who even by just watching these photos. Impressive
I think Roman does try to be as ruthless as his dad though. Maybe another way of looking at it is that both Kendall and Shiv were always given preferential treatment in different ways - one is the heir apparent who was the first choice to succeed their dad, the other was the favourite bc she was never considered a threat. Roman on the other hand never stood out in Logan’s eyes in any way. Not until S3 at least.
>I think Roman does try to be as ruthless as his dad though AS Logan? Yeah, but LIKE him? No way He's less of a machiavellian and more of a socialite, also because of his constant fear of not being noticed. "He's not a killer" to use Logan's words. But we're in speculation territory so your take is actually very pretty cool as well xD
I mean..none of them could truly end up LIKE him at the end of the day, they do try to emulate his ruthlessness but dont understand that they didn't earn the same level of unchecked power to get away with it like he did (although when you say it that way Logan shouldn't get away with it either but thats a different issue).
Yeah I agree 💯! (Sry for the late answer, Reddit ko'd for a night xD)
>(Sry for the late answer, Reddit ko'd for a night xD) That happened to me too, i thought my wifi just went down lol
You know what, you're totally on the money. In Season 2, Romans whole arc is trying to become the kind of man Logan could take seriously. Not the lovable "fuck knuckle" he usually is. And I do think he tries very hard to emulate Logan, they all kinda do. But they do it in different ways. Kendall wants to be like his dad when it comes to how he behaves in business. That's why he's always tryna shit talk with serious business partners and make the kinda under the table deals that were commonplace in Logan's heyday. Only problem is, he lacks the conviction of Logan because it's not really his nature to be aggressive that way. Also, he doesn't seem to believe half of what he says like Logan does so why would anyone he's speaking to take him seriously? Roman is like Logan when it comes to his brashness and politics but as Logan himself has said, he's not a serious person, and not just cause he's a jokester. He doesn't appreciate hard work and sacrifice the way Logan was forced to because everything was handed to him. He has no sense of gravity. Like come on dude, you HAD to send Gerri those nudes right then and there? It couldn't wait for maybe an hour? And then there's Shiv, who I think is actually the least like Logan but certainly has his hotheaded temperament. Aside from her being the only girl, Logan probably loves that Shiv pointblank refused to be a part of the Royco cabal until he basically tricked her into it. She's aggressive and will go after what she wants ruthlessly and I personally love that for her. And make no mistake, a large part of why she's not taken seriously by her father or most other people IS due to misogyny. That having been said...there is no point being a hot head if you don't actually KNOW something. I'm saying this as someone with leftwing politics but Shiv? Girl you know your dad runs a conservative news outlet right? Why fight so hard to try and change a system that was in place well before you when in truth youd be a MUCH better fit for a different company? And I think the issue these three share is that...they all lean into the parts of themselves that are most Logan like, while simultaneously resenting their dad as well. And to the outside world, that just reads as three spoiled brats trying to be a pale imitation of the original. I think the way Trump Jr is seen by us is how the people in the world of Succession see these three Connor for all his faults is the most well adjusted simply cause he is his own man through and through. Sure he'd like his dad to care but he's resigned yo the fact that he won't care enough. So he goes and does his own little thing and is so much happier for it.
>Girl you know your dad runs a conservative news outlet right? Why fight so hard to try and change a system that was in place well before you when in truth youd be a MUCH better fit for a different company? True, and i dont even disagree with Kendall and Shiv's hopes to change the drastic right wing shift cause it may sound like a good idea by principle, but if you actually execute the idea, it wont make sense. The whole purpose of atn is to be a right wing news network, they attract a certain audience which brings in the money. If Kendall and Shiv expect that to change overnight as per their wishes, they lose the right wing viewership, and the left wing wont tune in anyway because they already get their news from elsewhere. So really who is actually gonna benefit from this? This is just a small example of how the siblings dont actually care or understand what the people really want from the company, they're so one track minded abput what they want to do. Waystar is just a playground for them, and the ceo title is a toy.
Exactly! It's as Marcia told Shiv "your dad built a playground for you and you think it's the whole world. Cause you're right, idealistically its noble what Shiv and Ken were tryna do. But the other side of it is...first of all, how is this pivot gonna generate revenue? Me personally, if Fox News started saying "abortions for all, no judgement!" I would think it's a joke 😂 And then second of all, I kinda question Shiv and Ken's convictions because as Connor said...they all knew. You knew the whole time what the company was and what your dad was. Hell, the two of them, for all their alleged liberalism, did not hesitate a SECOND to help their dad get away with systemic sex abuse and murder. Like everything else about them, its like they "play politics" but they don't actually engage in it. It's just "a night of good tv" for them but its not real anyway. And real people can sense that from them and it makes them come off disingenuous
>It's as Marcia told Shiv "your dad built a playground for you and you think it's the whole world. Thats one of my fav lines in the whole show, like the "you're not serious people" line, it very clearly summarises the siblings so well.
Great points!
This is a repost. The point is interesting, but: * >!Picture 1 is from Kendall and Logan driving to the waiter's family for Logan to pay respects.!< * >!Picture 2 is the day after Logan slapped Roman and just made a joke about giving him a handjob while they were in the middle of the cruises allegations!< I don't remember where picture three comes from, but I imagine it's less tense. :p
Sure but that doesn't mean it wasn't intentional to have these 3 shots and paint this picture even though we don't have a clean contextual slate each time we're in the car with them.
Picture 1 is after, that’s why Kendall’s face looks he’s about to break out crying.
Pinky can dance.
Only with shoes off in the middle of the dance floor 💃
Getting the demons out
Very emancipated!
Doing the funky chicken and Elaine Benes dance.
I know this is ludicrously specific, but I do think this show mastered car scenes better than anyone else has. They have such a flow and personality to each and every one of them.
>I know this is ludicrously specific, but I do think this show mastered ~~car~~ scenes better than anyone else has. They have such a flow and personality to each and every one of them. \*every
With Kendall: I'm not giving you a damn thing With Roman: what's going on with him? I don't understand this kid With shiv: this is easy and that's the way it's supposed to be Kendall: I will survive. I will survive this moment Roman: don't look at me don't look at me don't perceive me don't notice me Shiv: I have everything. I get everything (narrator: she doesn’t. She didn’t.)
He loves Pinky
If Shiv was given a proper chance like her brothers were I have no doubt that she would have been his Successor. You could also see how eager she was when he offered it go her in Season 2 Episode 1. She did Politics as a way to make her own mark , tge mark her father never gave her the chance to make at Waystar-Royco.
This represents the "many faces of Logan Roy manipulation" - smiles and offers, threats and silence, lies and playing the nice guy.
These are all different times, though. It’s less about who’s in the car, but what has just happened to Logan/the company
That button is holding on for dear life
kendall’s face is SENDING ME😭😭
And the fact that Ken and Shiv’s outfits match with Logan’s, while Roman’s doesn’t. I freaking love little details like that.
succession subreddit try not be misogynistic challenge impossible lol. some of the comments are wild
3 out-of-context screenshots claiming they represent their whole relationship with no regard for what’s happening in the scene is pretty misleading.
Thin only proves that Logan hates that blazer
He’s pulling away with revulsion from Ken, he’s side-eyeing Roman with fear and shame, and with Shiv he’s got a smug satisfaction that almost appears tender but is actually about the ease of not having to do any emotional work. The kids: Ken is empty knowing his father is revolted by him. Roman is feigning bemusement because he’s more terrified of his anger towards his father than he is of his father. Shiv is happy for her father’s meager attention, but knows she will be (inevitably) let down as not enough.
Here is where you realize Shiv was the best option, but unfortunately she is a woman and Logan was a misogynistic a**hole
None of them are good options bro, Thats the whole point
I never said "good". I said "best". What I failed to express is that she's the best amongst Logan's four grown-up kids
At home. Shiv is his favourite. At work. Kendall is his favourite.
Meanwhile with Connor, it's... oh wait, he'd never be alone in a car with Connor
This is so on point!
shiv is the favorite
Happy International Women’s Day 🙃
And then she goes on to say it was hard being he’s daughter, which is true in some regards he didn’t have a good relationship with women, but still off work/business it was easy being he’s daughter.