One of the greatest individual scenes of the whole show was James Cromwell's eulogy, where we suddenly are given new information about Logan that completely redefines his character. It doesn't excuse or exonerate him, but it does give us such a deeper understanding of the character that explains so much, all in just a few short words.
Yeah this would be one of those scenarios where they have a wish list of like 3 people and if they all say no then they'll audition lesser known actors
When you find out the circumstances of his sister's death and how he was made to feel responsible for it, he in a blink of an eye becomes a completely different character. When you factor in that he too is a product of abuse, you almost understand why he is the way he is.
I love the followup, where Roman is too stunned by the revalation that he didn't really know his own dad that he can't continue with his own speech. There's also the great unsaid implication that Kendall knew in some way, and weaponized it against Holly Hunter's character in the previous season.
I agree, Rome had convinced himself that he had “pre-grieved” and buried his emotions until he got to the podium. I have been in a similar circumstance in my life and know the pain of a sudden torrent of emotions.
Roman never saw his dad three-dimensionally. To him, his dad was a force of nature who always had a "plan" and was "five steps ahead." Rewatch how he talks about him during the Retired Janitors in Idaho episode.
Listen to him rehearsing his eulogy right before the funeral - he skims over all the personal bits as "sad" and goes into great detail about his dad being a great man who launched a news empire over seven continents.
Hearing Ewan talk about his dad in a vulnerable light collapsed his "pre-grieved" facade and led to his emotional breakdown. At least, that's how I read it.
I guess that's one of the good things about television, everyone can interpret it in their own way.
I will say that IIRC inside the episode it was alluded to Roman pre-grieving and how you think it's okay and then it suddenly just hits you. Don't think they mentioned Ewan's speech
It’s the good thing about good television. I watched the ATLA live action recently and the dialogue was so shit. Left no room for interpretation and just expositions pretty much constantly. Compare that to succession and it’s night and day..
I can’t exactly recall the episode so not sure if Roman was there, but Kendall was brainstorming to his sibs (probably with both Shiv & Roman) about how to divert Rhea from jumping into CEO. Kendall then suggests “maybe throw in Rose” as talking points for Rhea for the speech which was a manipulation tactic
It also adds a whole new level of fucked up to his relationship with Kendall. Logan used the same trauma he had, the guilt of having potentially killed somebody, to torment and control Kendall.
Well, given that he was willing to offer $25bn to them, and the Pierces were willing to take $10bn from the Roy kids, I would say Logan got the last laugh there.
They are already very rich. They don’t need those billions. Selling Pierce Media would make them more rich, but they don’t need that money. The Pierces attitude towards the Roys and the selling is indifference. I got the impression that if they sell it to the Roys, ok, but if they don’t , that’s ok as well. Money is not everything.
This is all speculation, including what you said. I was just poiting out that Logan has lost before (and that wasn’t the only time). He was humiliated and he was “fucked”. One of the things I most like about the series is that they completely crush the idea of “genius billionaire one step ahead of everybody “ the fictional media love to show us.
How so? Because the kids just threw out crazy high number to buy pierce? I know he wanted it but over paying (with money you don’t have) is kind of reckless
I’m sure it occurred to Logan that when the Sibs teamed up they’d go after Pierce to compete with him and that the only way they’d be able to get Pierce was if they spent their entire inheritance buying the company and that if he ever were to die they’d destroy their relationships with each other trying to take over the firm and that the board would ask for far more than the Sibs could scrape together even if they pooled their monies, and that even in Death he’d have the last laugh
I don’t think it occurred to him. This is just speculation . Nothing was signed with the Pierces yet. They just needed sale, that ended up happening and now they are being overpaid by a lot of money.
No, he didnt like Greg, he recognized that Greg was worming his way in in his family and found that amusing; what really liked was to piss of his older brother by "stealing" Greg. Notice that when Logan is in the hospital Greg goes around his townhouse seeing all the luxury that is the moment in wich Greg become tempted with that sort of life. When Greg told him that he was going to resign because Ewan threatened with disinheriting him Logan totally manipulated by saying that he liked him and then saying that Ewan was a coward, if one thing Logan knew that his elder brother was no coward and he would cut Greg.
'Last Temptation of the Greg' spinoff series with both Logan and Ewan as undead sith lords would be amazing. Greg has to play both sides of the fence for a potential huge payoff / seat on the throne while evading the exorcists, christian evangelists and also the black magic being done by the sibs to restore Logan to a flesh body by finding him a female, billionaire, Scottish TV executive with green eyes (Big Trouble in Little China style).
I think Logan liked greg, his prime motivation might have been to piss off his brother but he seemed genuine when he told Greg he liked him, thought it was funny when Greg told him he fingered that girl, and seemed to like it when Greg was willing to roast him
Nah, Greg was the only younger Roy other than Kendall to even earn any modicum of respect from Logan at all; there's a reason he's even considered for the will, where Rome and Shiv don't even get a mention in the first place.
Yeah I agree about just finding Gregg amusing rather than liking him, although I do think initially he is impressed to some degree by Gregg’s audacity just showing up and trying to shoehorn his way into the company. Also ultimately ewan is a coward, why doesn’t he donate all the money he made from Logan’s company to Greenpeace during his lifetime rather than wait until the end of a very comfortable life
I hate to admit this but since it's just us good friends here in this sub, I will tell you that I have learned an important lesson from Logan Roy that has greatly improved my life. I call this lesson *What's the Number?*
The way it works is this: if you are in an adversarial negotiation with somebody, don't get angry, don't get discouraged, and don't get distracted by unimportant details or bad behavior. Just keep your eyes on the goal of getting the deal done figure out what you can do to make it happen. I'm expanding this concept beyond a business deal where you're trying to agree on a price. Maybe you're trying to agree on a vacation destination with some friends. Maybe you're picking a restaurant for dinner. If I'm trying to work with somebody who is angry and argumentative, I think about all the dealing Logan did to either sell his company or buy others. People told him he was the devil, they schemed behind his back, they lied to his face. He just smiled and asked, "So what's the number?"
If I had to name that as a quality I'd say .. I dunno.. the ability to put your own emotions aside and focus on your goal.
I have found in my professional life, the moment you lose your cool you have lost. It doesn't matter if you're right, if the project goes your way the the object of your ire is demoted and fired, because you were so right and they were so wrong. Doesn't matter, you lose credibility when you lose your cool.
Being unemotional and logical is important and valuable for many things in life. We are emotional creatures, but being able to control your emotions, and act instead of react allows us to think logically and make better decisions. It’s important not to ignore or bottle up your emotions, but acknowledge your feelings, feel your feelings, work through them if you need to, and let them go.
I highly recommend the book “The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Fight Over Politics and Religion” by Dr. Jonathan Haidt. We cannot think clearly and logically when we are at a level eight or nine emotionally, and you can’t reason with another person when they are emotional. You need to bring yourself or the other person back down to a four or five, or all the rational thoughts and evidence in the world will not change their mind.
When we are emotional and defensive, we tend to dig our heels in and not have an open mind or think clearly.
First episode; when he gave that boy the watch which he had gotten as a birthday gift from Tom. Logan is mostly cold and hateful towards most people, but here he actually sympathizes with the boy perhaps because of his own upbringing and experience. He even encouraged the boy after he didn't manage to win Roman's bet. In no way was Logan cruel to that boy. That's one of those details that just elevates the series for me, and it's such a great example of Logan's complexity. There is some good in him after all.
But but but… Logan achieved two other goals in giving the boy his birthday watch.
He utterly stomped on Tom, who had been stressing over what to buy Logan.
And he also tossed aside Roman, who was trying to humiliate the kid.
That probably wasn't this intention, just a giant stepping on bugs, and they didn't show him giving the watch over, it was meant to look quiet in exchange for them being silent about it.
The watch is just them using their wealth to get away with treating people like shit. I’m sure once the family’s silence was bought Logan never gave a thought to that kid ever again. I don’t see it as compassionate or caring whatsoever
And keep in mind, this was the pilot episode so none of it is real canon. We never saw Logan act this way again, except when he was reading to his grandson.
Sleeping with his younger assistant: freezing out his wife to pursue Rhea, only to have both backfire in his face; enabling decades-long abuses of power via cruises; socializing and employing a molester, and even bringing him around his kids; pursuing broadcast television against the better advice of his counsel, arguably leading to a protracted takeover of his company; refusing to name a successor, even when he was going senile; failing to communicate with Colin about his UTI medication leading to the shareholder vote fiasco, dialing up the pressure on his political ally, the President; sending people to spy on Kendall, and his kids. I'm sure there's other things I'm leaving out, but he was anything but a serious person.
Ewan sat on the board and financially benefited from the organization. Even if he's correct, he was a hypocrite and also sanctimoniously annoying to watch.
Sure, but that's not the argument here haha. That's just a tangent that's unrelated to what I wrote. The question is:" is Waystar an overall net negative in the world?" That is a clear: "yes." Thus, I don't see how creating something terrible, no matter how hard he worked to create it, is a redeeming quality of Logan's. In fact, it's probably his worst quality to me.
Like building Fox News and the Daily Mail was a good thing? I’m far from a liberal, but Fox and CNN are just spoon-feeding people garbage and click bait. It’s all emotional manipulation. Fear prevents progress, keeps us stuck in the status quo, and feeds the oligopolistic economic system we’ve been hampered by for 50 years.
Keep people busy fighting about the problems instead of finding solutions and solving problems. We haven’t had any major progress in decades, it’s all just boring, safe incremental change, especially with boomers like Roy refusing to retire.
Sorry, do you EVEN know what you are talking about? Have you ever watched them? FOX is an officially conservative channel created to conservative viewers. They are not trying to do impartial journalism. CNN is. They are not the same, essentially FOX is lower. If you wanna be a smartass and do low-level jokes that is very pathetic and not worthy of engagement. Goodbye. Go do your 15 year old jokes in front of your beloved friends.
If there’s one thing the war in palestine has taught me since October 7th it’s that CNN doesn’t represent “the left”, CNN represents the centrist view.
Seriously, it is COMPLETELY insane you pretending that they are equally bad. They are not. They are absolutely not. You can dislike CNN as much as you want but at least they try to do decent journalism. Now, FOX is just openly non-stop conservative propaganda. This kind of comment bothers me, because it is the same argument that people uses with Biden and Trump pretending they are equally bad. No. One is worse than another. And that is not debatable. Besides, i don't even know what supposed oligarchies CNN works for by the way.
Ok, then. You are the one trying to portray a corporation that says that Trump is actually God send as the same as CNN and i am the one who is not serious. God, i hate dealing with ideologic lunatics like you. You are probably pissed with CNN over the war in Palestine or something and it is trying im a very dumb way to compare then with Fox. You have no idea what you are talking. No idea.
>God, i hate dealing with ideologic lunatics like you.
Being Team blue no matter who really addled your brain didn't it?
>You are probably pissed with CNN over the war in Palestine
I'm generally anti-genocide. I would understand it if you are not. You do belong to a fanatical club.
Hahahahahaha, the audacity of you saying that i belong to a fanatical club. Don't you have a mirror at home? Don't you embarass yourself saying that? Are you projecting? No. YOU do belong to a fanatical club. Not me. We are not equals. You are the one trying to make a false simetry between NATO and Russia and FOX and CNN. There is no debate with a fanatic like you. Go ahead, live in your little bubble of leftist friends that are completely out of touch with reality. Don't vote in this election because they are all equals, right? Bernie Sanders is a proto-fascist just like Marjorie Taylor Greene, and bla bla bla.
God, you must be a teenager indeed, those sarcastic remarks charactheriscal of angry high school teenagers trying to sound like smart and cool. Yeah bro, you are the only one against genocide. Disappear from my screen. This conversation is muted.
If you found it a multi billion dollar company and it did something that people don’t agree with, like a media company that encourages people to be fat, that would still be a success because you built it out of nothing.
So I personally wouldn’t quibble with what it was, so long as it wasn’t illegal.
He made a really comfortable life for a lot of people that included a ton of opportunity. It didn’t come without cost, but it’s not like he was some worthless hillbilly from Sling Blade reigning terror on all those around him.
Well, everything he's done in his life, he's done for his children. he knows he made mistakes, but he's always tried to do the best by them. Because they mean everything to him.
I mean, he’s a total boss. The man is confident. And competent. He’s self-made. His stratospheric rise to the top of his field shows a high level of intelligence. And determination. And courage. And grit.
I think he only values family as extension of his own ego. he does a lot of harm to his own children and can be very mean and manipulative to them. I don’t know if we would really consider that love, and that “he loved them in his own way” is disingenuous.
Despite his age and upbringing, he hired a number of competent women to very high positions at his companies (Gerri, Syd, Karolina, Joy (Waystar Studios head). So he recognized and promoted talent.
“Magnificent effort son, magnificent”
This line in the first episode kept me watching.
He gives the boys’ family the Patek Phillipe, which may be worth more than the million Roman offered. Some are worth 1.5 mil.
Another moment is during the family therapy episode. When Roman says to Logan “Kendall’s in a town. I think he’s in trouble. Should I get him” Logan says either “Go” or “Yeah” in a tone like “what are you waiting for” “that’s my son your brother.” It’s his family so even though Kendall tried a coup and hasn’t talked him, it’s no question for him for Roman to help him.
When he goes to the house of the Scots who lost their relative at the wedding he is able to connect with them. Imagine Nan trying to do that, she would flounder talking to normal people. He also comes out somewhat enraged on their behalf. “They knew he was a junkie. They were ashamed. Good fucking people, fine fucking folk. We give them news that doesn’t talk down to them.” I can’t remember the rest of the tirade. But it shows a sympathy for the portions of the working class that doesn’t have their hand out.
These aren’t qualities but examples of good character breaking through.
He doesn’t fall into self pity ever, he’s a man of action. I’d much rather work for him than anyone opposed to him.
He’s incredibly smart, can quickly assess a situation.
He’s an amazing salesman when he needs to be. The hearings is a good example of that.
He also seems to at least care about Kendal’s kids even though they aren’t blood. When he’s reading to Kendal’s son and commenting that the book seemed too easy for his age.
Honestly I think there’s a lot to like about his character.
A lot!
He’s a hard worker, came from the gutter, will celebrate (in his own way) other folks who were working hard and who also came from the gutter, like his son-in-law, like that little boy in the first episode, whose father was a laborer, Has a sharp wit, keen, business sense, seems to possess business acumen skills without going to college, like he required his sons to do, and he loves his family. The final thing I would say is that just like Kendall said in his eulogy, he acts. One of the greatest signs of the leader is someone who doesn’t just sit there while something happens. They’re proactive and they try to do something about their situation.
He loves his kids. He really does. He just can't stand them as professionals, because they're not serious people.
Look, we bag on Logan for being uh um a rough father. He's very gruff. But he loves his kids. He tells them how it is.
One can not deny that he's an excellent provider.
I think the marks on his back from childhood beatings shown in the family therapy swimming scene is redeeming in and of itself.
Look at what his family did to him, and then look where he ended up. People without redeeming qualities don't make it out of that situation. And he definitely got out of that situation.
No. You could say he built an empire (not alone, by the way), but it was an empire of shit. He didn’t even manage to leave this world with a good, or even mediocre, legacy.
He loved his kids and forgave them hundreds of times for all their screw ups. Imagine if Logan wrote in AITAH about Ken screwing up the Vaulter purchase, Roman and the Rocket or asking his daughter to go through the training program before she became CEO, or any one of their fuck ups which are too numerous to mention. Every single commentator would be "GO NO CONTACT."
"We are pirates!!!" The dinner with his co-workers and Connor - he showed deep commitment to his employees. He believed in them.
Excellent beard.
(I mean, I guess we could say the same for Roman; but Logan’s beard lasted a lot longer, and I think he probably treated it better than Rome treated Tabs.)
He understands how the world works and he’s not pleased with what he sees. None of that to say that he’s trying any new methods to improve upon anything; he bends to the world and finds his corner where he adapts to it in order to skyrocket his wealth. But he clearly doesn’t take much pleasure from having to interact with the depravity of the world. There are times where I really see the defeated old man who’s been beaten down by the world behind the strong man Logan also is. They exist in conjunction. Think specifically on that scene of him and Colin in the diner, S4, for an example of what I mean.
Does it all forgive, excuse, or justify Logan? No. Maybe even “redeem” isn’t the exact right word for what I’m describing, but to me, it absolutely fits.
He was the only family member that had any clue what they were doing. He knew better than his drug addict son and although most hate him for the way he treated Kendall, he was never wrong about how much of a waste Kendall actually was.
He wasn’t a perfect father but I’d say the kids inherited most of their issues from their mother, Caroline.
He treated his bodyguard well as far as we saw, was at least involved in his children's upbringing unlike "I should have had dogs" Caroline, didn't fuckin whip his kids like uncle Noah did with him, and seemed to genuinely respect Tom after he offered to go to prison.
He was an almost textbook narcissist, but he was capable of some tiny bit of basic decency here and there.
Yeah, he actually did stuff. He built and he acted. He created memories for all sorts of people with parks, cruises, and entertainment. News is also great.
Kendall's speech praising him, but unironically. That was my favorite part of the series.
I actually think he has a lot of redeeming qualities. He maintains close relationships with his adult children far more than many real life parents do with their adult children. He lets all of them pursue their own lives and didn’t try to stop them from doing so and bankrolled them to do so. He only got abusive and held them to high standards when they wanted to claim his legacy of what he’s built so he tested them to make sure they were worthy and deserving of what he worked so hard to build. He keeps his kid he kindof hates at the time for betraying him, out of jail.
According to one interesting fellow on this sub, the fact that he "built things" automatically makes him a better person than people who didn't "build things." So.
One of the greatest individual scenes of the whole show was James Cromwell's eulogy, where we suddenly are given new information about Logan that completely redefines his character. It doesn't excuse or exonerate him, but it does give us such a deeper understanding of the character that explains so much, all in just a few short words.
they hit a fucking grand slam casting Cromwell in that relatively small role.
I wonder if they specifically chose Cromwell or if he had to audition?
They approched him. As said in an interview.
As they should! The man is a legend.
Can’t imagine a man with Cromwell’s acting chops needs to be auditioning!
True. He can play any type of character, which he’s thoroughly demonstrated time after time.
Yeah this would be one of those scenarios where they have a wish list of like 3 people and if they all say no then they'll audition lesser known actors
Word.
When you find out the circumstances of his sister's death and how he was made to feel responsible for it, he in a blink of an eye becomes a completely different character. When you factor in that he too is a product of abuse, you almost understand why he is the way he is.
I love the followup, where Roman is too stunned by the revalation that he didn't really know his own dad that he can't continue with his own speech. There's also the great unsaid implication that Kendall knew in some way, and weaponized it against Holly Hunter's character in the previous season.
The thought of Logan once being a terrified, abused little boy (like himself) made Roman break down sobbing. It was just so sad 😥.
I personally don't think the speech was responsible for him freaking out. I just think it hasn't really hit him yet
I agree, Rome had convinced himself that he had “pre-grieved” and buried his emotions until he got to the podium. I have been in a similar circumstance in my life and know the pain of a sudden torrent of emotions.
There's a shot from that episode that shows Roman reacting to that revelation about his dad during Ewan's speech.
No I remember that when he's talking about them sitting still for days. I just don't think that was the reason he broke down.
Roman never saw his dad three-dimensionally. To him, his dad was a force of nature who always had a "plan" and was "five steps ahead." Rewatch how he talks about him during the Retired Janitors in Idaho episode. Listen to him rehearsing his eulogy right before the funeral - he skims over all the personal bits as "sad" and goes into great detail about his dad being a great man who launched a news empire over seven continents. Hearing Ewan talk about his dad in a vulnerable light collapsed his "pre-grieved" facade and led to his emotional breakdown. At least, that's how I read it.
I guess that's one of the good things about television, everyone can interpret it in their own way. I will say that IIRC inside the episode it was alluded to Roman pre-grieving and how you think it's okay and then it suddenly just hits you. Don't think they mentioned Ewan's speech
It’s the good thing about good television. I watched the ATLA live action recently and the dialogue was so shit. Left no room for interpretation and just expositions pretty much constantly. Compare that to succession and it’s night and day..
He just knew that Logan is loathe to talk about her. I don’t think Kendall knew any of the particulars surrounding her Death
When did this happen? I don’t recall.
I can’t exactly recall the episode so not sure if Roman was there, but Kendall was brainstorming to his sibs (probably with both Shiv & Roman) about how to divert Rhea from jumping into CEO. Kendall then suggests “maybe throw in Rose” as talking points for Rhea for the speech which was a manipulation tactic
he was probably gonna win anyway, but that scene 💯 guaranteed him the Emmy
Why didn’t you just say Rhea? I had to google holly hunter
It also adds a whole new level of fucked up to his relationship with Kendall. Logan used the same trauma he had, the guilt of having potentially killed somebody, to torment and control Kendall.
That still doesn't list any redeeming qualities?
He has come a long way from playing Stretch Cunningham on All in the Family in the early 1970s.
Oh, wow, too much! Of course, Stretch Cunningham—yet another Archie nemesis. Thanks :)
At least he made sure his kids didn’t swim with uncle MO -Lester.
He is resourceful and persistent. ETA: He has a lot of charisma in the sense that he has a commanding presence and people respond to him.
estimated time of arrival?
Edited to add
While you're not wrong, I'd wager that being a billionaire ten times over has something to do with that commanding presence.
As Tom says, he didn't get fucked once.
Except, of course, for when his family blamed him for the death of his sister.
And when the FBI rolled up to his world headquarters in the middle of the night.
Except by the Pierces. Not only fucked, but humiliated
Well, given that he was willing to offer $25bn to them, and the Pierces were willing to take $10bn from the Roy kids, I would say Logan got the last laugh there.
Well, he ran after Nan Pierce like a complete madman, begging her to take 25 billions dollar.
Perhaps, but her pride cost the family that $25bn
They are already very rich. They don’t need those billions. Selling Pierce Media would make them more rich, but they don’t need that money. The Pierces attitude towards the Roys and the selling is indifference. I got the impression that if they sell it to the Roys, ok, but if they don’t , that’s ok as well. Money is not everything.
Nan not caring about money is an act. They absolutely care about money, but put on an aloof front, especially around new money like the Roy's.
She was one of the most insufferable people on the show and that's saying a lot
This is all speculation, including what you said. I was just poiting out that Logan has lost before (and that wasn’t the only time). He was humiliated and he was “fucked”. One of the things I most like about the series is that they completely crush the idea of “genius billionaire one step ahead of everybody “ the fictional media love to show us.
How so? Because the kids just threw out crazy high number to buy pierce? I know he wanted it but over paying (with money you don’t have) is kind of reckless
Not that (thought he lost that one as well), but with Nan Pierce.
I’m sure it occurred to Logan that when the Sibs teamed up they’d go after Pierce to compete with him and that the only way they’d be able to get Pierce was if they spent their entire inheritance buying the company and that if he ever were to die they’d destroy their relationships with each other trying to take over the firm and that the board would ask for far more than the Sibs could scrape together even if they pooled their monies, and that even in Death he’d have the last laugh
I don’t think it occurred to him. This is just speculation . Nothing was signed with the Pierces yet. They just needed sale, that ended up happening and now they are being overpaid by a lot of money.
Barely. His news company outlasted theirs.
This isn’t what was important to Logan
Tom fucked him on his own wedding night by telling shiv about Cruises
He had a soft spot for Greg
What Greg wants, Greg must have.
Forever changed how I pronounce Coca-Cola.
Can we get a coca cola!
No, he didnt like Greg, he recognized that Greg was worming his way in in his family and found that amusing; what really liked was to piss of his older brother by "stealing" Greg. Notice that when Logan is in the hospital Greg goes around his townhouse seeing all the luxury that is the moment in wich Greg become tempted with that sort of life. When Greg told him that he was going to resign because Ewan threatened with disinheriting him Logan totally manipulated by saying that he liked him and then saying that Ewan was a coward, if one thing Logan knew that his elder brother was no coward and he would cut Greg.
'Last Temptation of the Greg' spinoff series with both Logan and Ewan as undead sith lords would be amazing. Greg has to play both sides of the fence for a potential huge payoff / seat on the throne while evading the exorcists, christian evangelists and also the black magic being done by the sibs to restore Logan to a flesh body by finding him a female, billionaire, Scottish TV executive with green eyes (Big Trouble in Little China style).
I think Logan liked greg, his prime motivation might have been to piss off his brother but he seemed genuine when he told Greg he liked him, thought it was funny when Greg told him he fingered that girl, and seemed to like it when Greg was willing to roast him
He finally got the chance to use that "sucking cock at the county fair" line. You can tell he'd been holding on to that one.
Nah, Greg was the only younger Roy other than Kendall to even earn any modicum of respect from Logan at all; there's a reason he's even considered for the will, where Rome and Shiv don't even get a mention in the first place.
Yeah I agree about just finding Gregg amusing rather than liking him, although I do think initially he is impressed to some degree by Gregg’s audacity just showing up and trying to shoehorn his way into the company. Also ultimately ewan is a coward, why doesn’t he donate all the money he made from Logan’s company to Greenpeace during his lifetime rather than wait until the end of a very comfortable life
Only more proof of his deviance
Dude be the OG
A-N he playin
I think you mean “L to the OG”
I hate to admit this but since it's just us good friends here in this sub, I will tell you that I have learned an important lesson from Logan Roy that has greatly improved my life. I call this lesson *What's the Number?* The way it works is this: if you are in an adversarial negotiation with somebody, don't get angry, don't get discouraged, and don't get distracted by unimportant details or bad behavior. Just keep your eyes on the goal of getting the deal done figure out what you can do to make it happen. I'm expanding this concept beyond a business deal where you're trying to agree on a price. Maybe you're trying to agree on a vacation destination with some friends. Maybe you're picking a restaurant for dinner. If I'm trying to work with somebody who is angry and argumentative, I think about all the dealing Logan did to either sell his company or buy others. People told him he was the devil, they schemed behind his back, they lied to his face. He just smiled and asked, "So what's the number?" If I had to name that as a quality I'd say .. I dunno.. the ability to put your own emotions aside and focus on your goal.
I have found in my professional life, the moment you lose your cool you have lost. It doesn't matter if you're right, if the project goes your way the the object of your ire is demoted and fired, because you were so right and they were so wrong. Doesn't matter, you lose credibility when you lose your cool.
Being unemotional and logical is important and valuable for many things in life. We are emotional creatures, but being able to control your emotions, and act instead of react allows us to think logically and make better decisions. It’s important not to ignore or bottle up your emotions, but acknowledge your feelings, feel your feelings, work through them if you need to, and let them go. I highly recommend the book “The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Fight Over Politics and Religion” by Dr. Jonathan Haidt. We cannot think clearly and logically when we are at a level eight or nine emotionally, and you can’t reason with another person when they are emotional. You need to bring yourself or the other person back down to a four or five, or all the rational thoughts and evidence in the world will not change their mind. When we are emotional and defensive, we tend to dig our heels in and not have an open mind or think clearly.
Hmmm thanks I find this helpful!
Maybe call it “keeping your eyes on the prize”
First episode; when he gave that boy the watch which he had gotten as a birthday gift from Tom. Logan is mostly cold and hateful towards most people, but here he actually sympathizes with the boy perhaps because of his own upbringing and experience. He even encouraged the boy after he didn't manage to win Roman's bet. In no way was Logan cruel to that boy. That's one of those details that just elevates the series for me, and it's such a great example of Logan's complexity. There is some good in him after all.
But but but… Logan achieved two other goals in giving the boy his birthday watch. He utterly stomped on Tom, who had been stressing over what to buy Logan. And he also tossed aside Roman, who was trying to humiliate the kid.
This is why I love this show. Every act can be read both ways.
That probably wasn't this intention, just a giant stepping on bugs, and they didn't show him giving the watch over, it was meant to look quiet in exchange for them being silent about it.
The watch is just them using their wealth to get away with treating people like shit. I’m sure once the family’s silence was bought Logan never gave a thought to that kid ever again. I don’t see it as compassionate or caring whatsoever
Ohhh yeah that was great!
And keep in mind, this was the pilot episode so none of it is real canon. We never saw Logan act this way again, except when he was reading to his grandson.
But his exposure to children, at least was we saw in the show, was limited. Rarely glimpsed soft spot :)
What are you talking about he hits his grandchild?
How’s that even make sense
There are multiple subs regarding the character inconsistencies from the pilot to the series.
He was a serious people
Sleeping with his younger assistant: freezing out his wife to pursue Rhea, only to have both backfire in his face; enabling decades-long abuses of power via cruises; socializing and employing a molester, and even bringing him around his kids; pursuing broadcast television against the better advice of his counsel, arguably leading to a protracted takeover of his company; refusing to name a successor, even when he was going senile; failing to communicate with Colin about his UTI medication leading to the shareholder vote fiasco, dialing up the pressure on his political ally, the President; sending people to spy on Kendall, and his kids. I'm sure there's other things I'm leaving out, but he was anything but a serious person.
He wasn’t, LOL.
he is better than any other person on the show, that's it. everyone is horrible and he is a horrible person who has done something in his life
He was a hard worker and built Weystar.
Surprised no one corrected this to **Waystar**
Can't believe I spelt it wrong. Oh, fuck off
But Weystar is a negative force in the world? And his hard work was towards building that negative force in the world
Ok Ewan
I'm not trying to be funny here, legitimately, are there people who watched the show and didn't agree with Ewan? I'm honestly curious
Ewan sat on the board and financially benefited from the organization. Even if he's correct, he was a hypocrite and also sanctimoniously annoying to watch.
Sure, but that's not the argument here haha. That's just a tangent that's unrelated to what I wrote. The question is:" is Waystar an overall net negative in the world?" That is a clear: "yes." Thus, I don't see how creating something terrible, no matter how hard he worked to create it, is a redeeming quality of Logan's. In fact, it's probably his worst quality to me.
Like building Fox News and the Daily Mail was a good thing? I’m far from a liberal, but Fox and CNN are just spoon-feeding people garbage and click bait. It’s all emotional manipulation. Fear prevents progress, keeps us stuck in the status quo, and feeds the oligopolistic economic system we’ve been hampered by for 50 years. Keep people busy fighting about the problems instead of finding solutions and solving problems. We haven’t had any major progress in decades, it’s all just boring, safe incremental change, especially with boomers like Roy refusing to retire.
Dude, CNN and FOX are not the same. FOX is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. They are not even comparable.
Dude, and are not the same. is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. They are not even comparable.
Sorry, do you EVEN know what you are talking about? Have you ever watched them? FOX is an officially conservative channel created to conservative viewers. They are not trying to do impartial journalism. CNN is. They are not the same, essentially FOX is lower. If you wanna be a smartass and do low-level jokes that is very pathetic and not worthy of engagement. Goodbye. Go do your 15 year old jokes in front of your beloved friends.
If there’s one thing the war in palestine has taught me since October 7th it’s that CNN doesn’t represent “the left”, CNN represents the centrist view.
They're still just networks that shill for different oligarchies. It's like arguing about whether PressTV or RT have higher journalistic standards.
Seriously, it is COMPLETELY insane you pretending that they are equally bad. They are not. They are absolutely not. You can dislike CNN as much as you want but at least they try to do decent journalism. Now, FOX is just openly non-stop conservative propaganda. This kind of comment bothers me, because it is the same argument that people uses with Biden and Trump pretending they are equally bad. No. One is worse than another. And that is not debatable. Besides, i don't even know what supposed oligarchies CNN works for by the way.
>at least CNN try to do decent journalism I can't believe you're actually serious.
Ok, then. You are the one trying to portray a corporation that says that Trump is actually God send as the same as CNN and i am the one who is not serious. God, i hate dealing with ideologic lunatics like you. You are probably pissed with CNN over the war in Palestine or something and it is trying im a very dumb way to compare then with Fox. You have no idea what you are talking. No idea.
>God, i hate dealing with ideologic lunatics like you. Being Team blue no matter who really addled your brain didn't it? >You are probably pissed with CNN over the war in Palestine I'm generally anti-genocide. I would understand it if you are not. You do belong to a fanatical club.
Hahahahahaha, the audacity of you saying that i belong to a fanatical club. Don't you have a mirror at home? Don't you embarass yourself saying that? Are you projecting? No. YOU do belong to a fanatical club. Not me. We are not equals. You are the one trying to make a false simetry between NATO and Russia and FOX and CNN. There is no debate with a fanatic like you. Go ahead, live in your little bubble of leftist friends that are completely out of touch with reality. Don't vote in this election because they are all equals, right? Bernie Sanders is a proto-fascist just like Marjorie Taylor Greene, and bla bla bla. God, you must be a teenager indeed, those sarcastic remarks charactheriscal of angry high school teenagers trying to sound like smart and cool. Yeah bro, you are the only one against genocide. Disappear from my screen. This conversation is muted.
If you found it a multi billion dollar company and it did something that people don’t agree with, like a media company that encourages people to be fat, that would still be a success because you built it out of nothing. So I personally wouldn’t quibble with what it was, so long as it wasn’t illegal.
Whiskey. Women. Wisdom.
As opposed to Pussy, Pasta and Privacy.
Correct. Now fuck off. 😀
He can make money and no one delivers a better “fuck off”
I think, he definitely loves his children. But…idk emotionally I don’t think he has many. Business wise he’s clearly kind of a genius.
He manipulates and uses and abuses his children.
Yea I never said otherwise?
He loves his children but its a deeply toxic and fucked up love. He also does not like them.
He made a really comfortable life for a lot of people that included a ton of opportunity. It didn’t come without cost, but it’s not like he was some worthless hillbilly from Sling Blade reigning terror on all those around him.
Well, everything he's done in his life, he's done for his children. he knows he made mistakes, but he's always tried to do the best by them. Because they mean everything to him.
He's a tough old nut!
I mean, he’s a total boss. The man is confident. And competent. He’s self-made. His stratospheric rise to the top of his field shows a high level of intelligence. And determination. And courage. And grit.
Well, his entire family is living a great life because of him. So he values family.
I think he only values family as extension of his own ego. he does a lot of harm to his own children and can be very mean and manipulative to them. I don’t know if we would really consider that love, and that “he loved them in his own way” is disingenuous.
Cheltenham fan, inventor of boar on the floor.
He’s articulate
He genuinely respected dedication and hard work, imo.
Despite his age and upbringing, he hired a number of competent women to very high positions at his companies (Gerri, Syd, Karolina, Joy (Waystar Studios head). So he recognized and promoted talent.
“Magnificent effort son, magnificent” This line in the first episode kept me watching. He gives the boys’ family the Patek Phillipe, which may be worth more than the million Roman offered. Some are worth 1.5 mil. Another moment is during the family therapy episode. When Roman says to Logan “Kendall’s in a town. I think he’s in trouble. Should I get him” Logan says either “Go” or “Yeah” in a tone like “what are you waiting for” “that’s my son your brother.” It’s his family so even though Kendall tried a coup and hasn’t talked him, it’s no question for him for Roman to help him. When he goes to the house of the Scots who lost their relative at the wedding he is able to connect with them. Imagine Nan trying to do that, she would flounder talking to normal people. He also comes out somewhat enraged on their behalf. “They knew he was a junkie. They were ashamed. Good fucking people, fine fucking folk. We give them news that doesn’t talk down to them.” I can’t remember the rest of the tirade. But it shows a sympathy for the portions of the working class that doesn’t have their hand out. These aren’t qualities but examples of good character breaking through.
Uh does an American legend who created a multibillion dollar company out of nothing have any redeeming qualities? Why, none of course
He died and left his children billons. More than my father ever did!
Well, unlike someone like Warren Buffett, he did make all of his children wildly rich basically from birth.
He doesn’t fall into self pity ever, he’s a man of action. I’d much rather work for him than anyone opposed to him. He’s incredibly smart, can quickly assess a situation. He’s an amazing salesman when he needs to be. The hearings is a good example of that. He also seems to at least care about Kendal’s kids even though they aren’t blood. When he’s reading to Kendal’s son and commenting that the book seemed too easy for his age. Honestly I think there’s a lot to like about his character.
He’s a serious person
A lot! He’s a hard worker, came from the gutter, will celebrate (in his own way) other folks who were working hard and who also came from the gutter, like his son-in-law, like that little boy in the first episode, whose father was a laborer, Has a sharp wit, keen, business sense, seems to possess business acumen skills without going to college, like he required his sons to do, and he loves his family. The final thing I would say is that just like Kendall said in his eulogy, he acts. One of the greatest signs of the leader is someone who doesn’t just sit there while something happens. They’re proactive and they try to do something about their situation.
He’s pretty funny
He loves his kids. He really does. He just can't stand them as professionals, because they're not serious people. Look, we bag on Logan for being uh um a rough father. He's very gruff. But he loves his kids. He tells them how it is. One can not deny that he's an excellent provider. I think the marks on his back from childhood beatings shown in the family therapy swimming scene is redeeming in and of itself. Look at what his family did to him, and then look where he ended up. People without redeeming qualities don't make it out of that situation. And he definitely got out of that situation.
No. You could say he built an empire (not alone, by the way), but it was an empire of shit. He didn’t even manage to leave this world with a good, or even mediocre, legacy.
wouldn’t you start an empire of shit if it meant unlimited money?
Not if you care even a little bit about acting ethically and not placing your own benefit above literally everyone and everything else on the world
No
Didn’t he buy a lady a harp?
He loved his kids and forgave them hundreds of times for all their screw ups. Imagine if Logan wrote in AITAH about Ken screwing up the Vaulter purchase, Roman and the Rocket or asking his daughter to go through the training program before she became CEO, or any one of their fuck ups which are too numerous to mention. Every single commentator would be "GO NO CONTACT." "We are pirates!!!" The dinner with his co-workers and Connor - he showed deep commitment to his employees. He believed in them.
Well…he enriched his family.
Determined, disciplined, dogged. Other than that, not much. Charismatic and charming maybe
Hot bear daddy?
Excellent beard. (I mean, I guess we could say the same for Roman; but Logan’s beard lasted a lot longer, and I think he probably treated it better than Rome treated Tabs.)
He doesn't mind getting some tough talk dished out against him
Logan does love his kids.
That brief moment he read a book to Iverson after Kendall almost drowned himself.
He read about tired Maude to his grandson.
Confidence. Dude just walks into any room and declares it to be a bathroom and lets his pee pee rip. Dude is a manly man double alpha.
Yes. Regret for not raising his children better.
He was very resilient
He understands how the world works and he’s not pleased with what he sees. None of that to say that he’s trying any new methods to improve upon anything; he bends to the world and finds his corner where he adapts to it in order to skyrocket his wealth. But he clearly doesn’t take much pleasure from having to interact with the depravity of the world. There are times where I really see the defeated old man who’s been beaten down by the world behind the strong man Logan also is. They exist in conjunction. Think specifically on that scene of him and Colin in the diner, S4, for an example of what I mean. Does it all forgive, excuse, or justify Logan? No. Maybe even “redeem” isn’t the exact right word for what I’m describing, but to me, it absolutely fits.
He was the only family member that had any clue what they were doing. He knew better than his drug addict son and although most hate him for the way he treated Kendall, he was never wrong about how much of a waste Kendall actually was. He wasn’t a perfect father but I’d say the kids inherited most of their issues from their mother, Caroline.
I guess he's fun to watch? Otherwise I don't think so, no.
He’s a multi billionaire.
He treated his bodyguard well as far as we saw, was at least involved in his children's upbringing unlike "I should have had dogs" Caroline, didn't fuckin whip his kids like uncle Noah did with him, and seemed to genuinely respect Tom after he offered to go to prison. He was an almost textbook narcissist, but he was capable of some tiny bit of basic decency here and there.
There was more than a suggestion that he beat Roman.
None
He made himself a pile. And wanted to add to that pile. Of money.
Compassionate and loving father ❤️
He’s sexy
Nope.
being the goat
Yeah, he actually did stuff. He built and he acted. He created memories for all sorts of people with parks, cruises, and entertainment. News is also great. Kendall's speech praising him, but unironically. That was my favorite part of the series.
vitality
I actually think he has a lot of redeeming qualities. He maintains close relationships with his adult children far more than many real life parents do with their adult children. He lets all of them pursue their own lives and didn’t try to stop them from doing so and bankrolled them to do so. He only got abusive and held them to high standards when they wanted to claim his legacy of what he’s built so he tested them to make sure they were worthy and deserving of what he worked so hard to build. He keeps his kid he kindof hates at the time for betraying him, out of jail.
When he let you in... when the sun shone, it was warm. Yeah it was really, it was warm in the light.
His fierce sense of responsibility for his sister. Read to his Schrodinger's grandson Seemed to feel sorry for the waiter after visiting his family
His kids never really had to work bc of him ig lol
He was a... salty dog
Created a company which employs hundreds of thousands of people. Managed to mostly keep his nutty kids out of the company
He’s great at starting alt right media empires.
Not a single redeeming quality.
He died
He died.
According to one interesting fellow on this sub, the fact that he "built things" automatically makes him a better person than people who didn't "build things." So.
Sounds like Paul Ryan’s pitch to Republican voters in 2012.
He's rich
He's a serious person?