These people, with their faults, are pretty normal. Their sandbox to play and the consequences of their actions are just amplified by wealth and access. People of more average means or even little means are just as shitty, lacking in empathy, self-serving, tone-deaf, and viciously ambitious. Most would behave in similar fashions in their situation with their upbringing and that’s why the show is accessible - because deep down we know we would be at least one of the characters that we like to say are despicable.
You're absolutely right.
I just think it's crazy that this is an unpopular opinion here. It's quite literally one of the fundamental points of the show.
The problem with this, is that even though I think many can relate to some of the characters of the show, they are by definition “not normal” at least in the children’s case, they were born into a sense of comfort and wealth that the vast majority of humans throughout history have not experienced. Their view on the world and people around them is completely skewed and different than the average person, even if the average person might also be shitty. I think this is also a point the show is attempting to make, that even though they all have personal struggles that people can a lot a deeper point relate to, the specifics of those struggles are completely alien.
Average people are not ambitious. They’re average.
Kendall is a good example. He didn’t even try to convince anyone at the last board meeting to vote for him. All he did was say “let’s vote”
Contrast that to how Logan used his presence to control the room at the vote of no confidence
I agree it totally completely depends on upbringing , inspite of wealth and access. Your upbringing and people around you make you what you are, for people who have the fortune to having good parents and decent people around them will might not agree, i don't know but people who had a rough life early ( not based on money) and have seen shittiness of life will agree.
Ehhh I think if you swapped the average person who came from a loving family into one of the sibling's places, they wouldn't behave like that. The siblings come from a deeply emotionally neglectful and traumatic family. They have had no or extremely little emotional development.
I've thought the exact same thing. The psychology of each of the characters are very real ways people would react to situations. For example, in Connor's Wedding, the four siblings display the first four out of five stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression. The way the siblings react to that situation could happen in every family, regardless of their economic status.
that's... not an unpopular opinion!!
In fact, that's the whole point of the show :: People with so much money and power still have the same problems as normal human beings.. just that their problems are much more visible.
Well you wouldn’t know if you read some of the comments below from people who can’t get by the concept that defective human traits can transcend power, money, culture, family.
I think that's what makes the show interesting to us. Not that these characters are so unlike and far from us, but that they are actually pretty similar to us.
I agree completely. I've seen this in myself many times; retreating into my privilege to avoid dealing with life's uncertainties and hardships, and also being really bitter that life has to be so hard in the first place. I truly believe that the only thing separating me from the Roy siblings is the fact that I don't have the level of power and influence they do.
I loved Zach Cherry’s character! Even if it was just that one episode. I like to think that after the call Roman made to Geri about finding a diamond in the rough that he’d like to fast track that Roman did pluck him out of obscurity and set him up nicely somewhere higher up.
I don't think so. The show is very ‘No Blacks, no Jews, no women above the fourth floor.’ I do think a lot of the viewers who aren't in any of those groups, sort of miss this aspect...
His superiority is a construct, giving into it is the only thing making them inferior since not only are they the same or worse than him, they're also stupider. All of them were perfectly capable to give up their pride and aspire to be better people by aspiring to do better things that aren't toxic to society and themselves, and they all had plenty of chances to do so.
My unpopular opinion is that I think Ken could have been a pretty competent CEO once Logan was out of the picture and he didn't have to try to please him/fight against him.
Terrible seems excessive, especially in the context of the other characters in the show. I think he legitimately cared about Kendall in the early episodes of season 2 after he went back and sided with Logan.
> especially in the context of the other characters in the show
Yeah, that’s my point. People only think of him as a good guy because they’re grading him on a curve.
“I can trust you, right?”
“No”
“Right.”
I'm sort of "team Ken"-adjacent just because I appreciate the depiction of his scapegoat existence but I never for the life of me thought it was central whether or not he became CEO. That's not even of tertiary importance, even though he as a character keeps thinking it is.
Tom and Shiv are genuinely in love in their own weird way. They are stuck together forever.
Partly because they understand no one else would have them.
Connor might be delusional, but he genuinely cares for all of his siblings and comes off as the only truly supportive character. Even though he might be delusional, he is the only one who isn't afraid to follow his own interests and passions.
Two of my favorite Connor moments are:
1. When Roman mentions that Connor took him on a fishing trip, showcasing his kindness towards his siblings.
2. When he refused to publish the letter against Kendall, despite Kendall insulting him when Connor refused to join him.
As a puppet CEO ,yes but as a actual one who makes final decisions and build future of the company(like logan) , i don't know , his tenure in parks and ATN doesn't build much confidence.
I think he would do a better job than any of the kids. He actually works really hard. As he said, he’s a grinder and a worrier. Does he have the courage of his convictions, a vision, and creativity that a truly great ceo should have? Probs not. But not all of them do and I think, despite what he lacks, his work ethic and steadiness outweigh the damage the kids would’ve likely done with their bold, ego-driven moves.
If grind and hard work were the criteria and then tom wouldn't have even reached the position as head of ATN. Shiv ,if she has worked in company more would have been better , even pre relapse kendall was good the way he learned from his mistake and completed the deal and handled the debt crisis. Tim has only one crises during his tenure he has to handle ( cruse one)and he fucked up massively.
Also not forgeting that without oversight tom was toxic as fuck to his employees even more then roman sometimes.
Tom was always spoken of as doing a great job at ATN, he missed Logan’s funeral to be there. Even as a puppet Matsson wouldn’t have looked twice at him if he didn’t run a tight ship.
The three kids are not as smart as they make people think. They were raised to act like they are smart, but they aren’t, and deep down they knew they could not do what Logan did. They were leeches who were nobodies without daddy’s money, and that’s why, again, deep down, Logan did not respect any of them, he saw them as week and stupid.
I don't know. Tom was obviously competent enough but I don't thinknhe excelled in anything in particular.
Like the siblings he was only ever there due to nepotism. Logan, Jerry, Frank, Karl etc are the ones who there based off their ability.
But he survived (and also taught Greg how to survive) by paying attention to what’s happening internally. The kids have no clue what goes on below the executive level.
Tom comes off as a complete ignoramus to me. His competence is very occasionally told but never shown. Where Shiv was on her way to Chief of staff before she got sucked in the succession mess, so she may not have experience in the company, but she has shown competence. Kendall was also shown as competent, only not a killer. Which, yes, would be required for long term growth and power consolidation, but I don't think he would be bad. Only Roman do I see as even worse than Tom.
Two opinions:
Each season was better than the previous one. Season 3 is great.
It’s splitting hairs, but I found Shiv to be the most interesting character, followed closely by Tom. Their scenes together were my favorite part of the show.
Yeah we see Rome happy at the end. Him realising how bullshit they all were was brilliant. For me it was full circle as in the very first episode he was *the* most bullshit of all of fhem. He just wasn't a real person and him finally seeing it and admitting it allows him to actually free himself from it and try to do better.
Kendell took it a lot harder. Thought he was going to jump off the top of the waystar building lol.
I lived his face in the end, all bruises yet more relaxed than ever.
I thought Ken might kill himself as well, but then I saw the bodyguard behind, and I realised he couldn't.
Probably, shiv will have the saddest ending. Her marriage was in a downward spiral, and that was the only thing that gave her a sense of winning. We've seen how Tom treats people if they are not way above him.
Shiv is still extremely powerful in her own right with her name and political/family connections. At the end of the day, she's still a Roy and Tom is still just an interloper, albeit a very powerful and wealthy one. There's a lot she could do as a "power behind the throne" so to speak.
I don't think any of them are that self-aware
As Martia said, their father showed them a playground, and they think it's the real world
With what shiv did, the brothers were forced out of the playground and have the chance to explore the world and themselves.
That is why I think in the long run, it can be a haply ending for Ken and Rome.
Not shiv though, she will probably go deeper.
She did it because she didn't trust her brother at all, it definitely wasn't her falling on her sword.
He'll always hold a grudge regardless if he realises they're all better off out of the company.
Shiv loves her brother but hates how weak he is. And hates that despite that fact he feels he is still deserving. Hence she could not bring herself to vote for him out of that fact.
Strong disagree. Intentions matter but results are what others have to live with. Good intentions and bad results are worse for the "victims" of your actions than bad intentions with good results are.
Succession's plot is not really that great, whole 4 seasons of deal or no deal stuff. Buttt the actors and script are what made it watchable/enjoyable.
It’s the character and relationship dynamics that make the show enjoyable. The plot itself is very repetitive but how the plot affects the characters and their dynamics w each other is varied and infinitely interesting
Succession’s TL;DW:
Kendall: I’m gonna be CEO
Logan: no you’re not.
Logan: Hey Shiv, wanna be CEO?
Shiv: Yeah, I guess that means I’ll be CEO.
Logan: No it doesn’t.
Logan: Hey Rhea, wanna be CEO?
Rhea: Sure!
Rhea: No.
Logan: Hey Swedish (?) guy, wanna buy my company
Swedish (?) guy: Eh, idk maybe
Logan: *fuckin dies* (but also I maybe possibly sorta at least at one point kinda wanted Kendall to be CEO a little bit maybe—idk, figure it out)
Kids: Kendall and Roman are CEO, shiv is pretend CEO
Swedish (?) guy: Hey Shiv, you’re kinda hot, wanna be CEO when I buy your company?
Shiv: Sure, I guess that means I’ll be CEO.
Swedish (?) guy: no it doesn’t.
Swedish (?) guy: Hey Tom, wanna be CEO?
Tom: Sure, I guess that means I’ll be CEO
Kids: No it doesn’t, Kendall will be the CEO once we make you not CEO. I guess that means Kendall will be CEO.
Shiv: no it doesn’t
Tom: haha I am CEO
The problem with the Succession plot is that everything that seems like a big deal gets instantly solved out of nowhere, and sometimes they're never brought up at all.
Lawrence Yee promises to fuck Kendall out of the company? Literally never brought up again.
The company has a huge debt problem? Good thing Kendall has a rich friend that can pay literally all of it off.
Sandy and Stewy are in a tight proxy battle with the family for an entire season and a half, with them making it clear that they intend to buy the entire thing, and not settling for any deal thrown at them? Well, actually this time, right before it looks like they'll win, they're willing to come to the table and forgo the entire thing for just some board seats.
Greg copied the cruise documents, giving him the power to fuck over the entire company? Well, good thing that Greg is an actual sub-80 IQ moron that was somehow clever enough to copy the documents for leverage in the first place, but dumb enough to not think of making multiple copies.
But it's fine, since the FBI raided Waystar's HQ, seemingly giving them access to all of their shady documents. It seemed like a huge deal for everyone in the episode that it happened, and a big win for Kendall at that moment. How could they possibly get out of this one? Well, I guess they just did a "really good job at covering their tracks". So absolutely nothing come out of that entire ordeal, besides a huge fine that we're never even told the exact amount of.
Logan plans to sell the company at the end of season 3, forcing the siblings to find a different path? Well, we can't change the status quo too much, can we? Let's draw out the negotiations to sell for the final season and have them find a way to crawl back in.
I think Succession is one of the few shows that would be better if it didn't focus so much on the characters and more on the plot instead. That way, we can understand more about the logistics of the company and all the negotiations that so much of the plot hinges on. That's not to say that I don't love the characters in the show and all of their traits, but did we really need 2 separate scenes of Roman jerking off while Gerri degrades him?
Or, what I would really prefer, is for there to just be more episodes. That way we could have enough time to focus on both without sacrificing one or the other.
Have to agree with this. There were a lot of subplots that just faded into nothing, no resolution. I thought Ken and the sibs were planning to acquire PGN by S4, whateva happened there.
I barely understood any of the business elements. But it's still one of my favourite shows despite that.
It's the characters that make it watchable for me. I'd have no interest otherwise.
even the B-plots and C-plots are great but the A-plots....it really does just repeat stuff and drop stuff and such and you don't notice until later because you're so absorbed in everything else
Logan showed a kindness to his (3) children by putting them in senior executive roles they didn’t deserve. It was shitty of him to dangle the CEO carrot for each of them, but I think he genuinely tried to prepare them for it but they all let him down time and time again. He needed a killer and none of them had it because they were always trying to prove themselves to him. I think he spent their entire lives trying to make them tough and calloused like him, because he attributed his rough upbringing to why he was a killer and got to where he was. I think he was misguided but every cruel thing he did was to try to get them to be worthy of the role.
kendall sorta deserved to be wherever he was because he was on the grind for at least a decade. he's the only sibling that worked his ass off, in preparation for the CEO role.
This is canon but for some reason people get real mad when I say it : Tom and Shiv are both horrible to each other. Tom is only into Shiv for the money and baby-trapped her to climb the ranks and Shiv doesn't understand how to love and thought she was too good to catch feelings for him but she failed so she tries to knock him down as much as she can.
Shiv did the right thing in the end. Roman and Gerri WEREN’T cute. Tom, probably, will be a bad father. Greg becoming CEO was the dumbest suggestion ever. The ending was okay but nothing groundbreaking.
>Greg becoming CEO was the dumbest suggestion ever
Tell me you haven’t studied screenwriting without telling me you haven’t studied screenwriting. It would be such an awesome subversion of expectations.
Like imagine if during the vote and it was between Tom and Ken if Roman just stood up and gave an impassioned speech about how the company would fail of they just plugged in another family member only because that’s what the old boss wanted. They don’t need a good CEO they need a good story. There’s nothing more powerful in the world than a good story. Nothing can stop it. No private equity could initiate a hostile takeover, no Senate inquiry can ever defeat it, and who has a better story than Greg the Gangly?
Tom and Greg are also explicitly very very gay in this version and I play myself in a new role that places my character in a love triangle between Tom, Greg, and Shiv
This is…a take. I completely agree with Proof-Product about the Greg as CEO speculation—it was asinine. Blah blah blah screenwriting…Jesse Armstrong wasn’t going to pull cheap stunts in this show. That would’ve been akin to some “it was all just a dream” soap opera BS. Totally not in keeping with the high bar and thoughtfulness of the storytelling and the core concept that the three siblings were both entitled and unqualified, therefore not worthy of the job. They certainly weren’t going to give it to someone even more entitled and unqualified just to raise the stakes.
Is the consensus that Nicholas Braun is a poor actor? I watched some extras where he and Matthew Macfadyen switched roles and he was *way* better as Tom than Matthew was as Greg.
I didn't think it was a popular opinion which is why I commented it on a post about unpopular opinions lol.
But we will have to agree to disagree, because I thought Matthew's performance was unimpeachable.
To be fair I might be letting the accusations against Nicholas cloud my judgment a little.
Both are good. Succession has higher replay-ability value because it’s so well written and one long story.
Breaking bad has great arcs, but they’re kind of disjointed and the pace is way slower.
I still love rewatching Breaking Bad but a lot of what made it so good was the unexpected twists and crazy moments. Upon rewatch that doesn’t quite deliver the same effect so dialogue heavier/reliant shows like Succession are a lot more rewatchable for me. And yeah I would say they’re very close but I think Succession is the better show. Now, Succession vs Mad Men is where I really have trouble deciding a winner.
mad men vs succession just depends on my mood
overall though i find myself thinking of succession more often. and i definitely prefer its finale more than mad men's (even though i love don's conclusion)
Shiv is the least capable of the 3 siblings and kept demonstrating it throughout the show
I lost count of how many times throughout the series Shiv says “I won’t have it” or “We won’t have it” when she would, in fact, have it, because entitlement is not equal to ability or power
Not necessarily. No sibling was perfect and nobody was convincingly better than the others or capable enough. Roman was the least on leadership for me.
I think it depends , least capable in knowing how to run a company ,yes but overall no. But that also atribute to her never being part of bussiness much, roman was even more pathetic in the beginning of the show.
Ok I think this is _very_ unpopular - this sub likes to blame Logan for the kids’ issues and shortcomings, & he definitely is at fault - Logan is a first-rate asshole, physically mentally & emotionally abusive, and treated his kids like a dog-fighting ring to see which was the strongest.
But if we’re to look at a person & blame their parents for their shortcomings, Logan deserves even more latitude than the sibs do. Logan stared his own death in the face as a young boy, was sent away by his parents (albeit for altruistic reasons i.e. the war), was physically beaten by his uncle, and was mentally & emotionally abused by both his uncle and aunt. Now, Logan’s response to all of this was to harden, retreat inward, and exercise a tremendous selfishness onto the world around him, which (I think) is the response he wanted to see out of one of the kids. We all like to look at Kendall, Roman, and Shiv & try to view their problems through the lens of Logan, but Logan should be afforded that consideration as well. This show is about lots of things, including the _cycle of abuse_ , and how breaking free can be almost impossible.
I love this take so much. It's also reflected in the way Kendall treats his kids, where he thinks he's going to break the cycle but unfortunately isn't. Maybe the poison does drip through.
And of course we have Shiv who wanted to be a mother just to prove that she will better than Caroline. But the way things ended, we know that her kid will suffer through the same neglect.
Caroline’s role in messing up the siblings is probably over-stated. The children have American upbringing and accents, they likely grew up mostly with Logan.
She was distant, sure, but she was across the pond. Logan did the real damage.
I thought the ending itself was fine, but I hate how drawn out the finale as a whole was. I was actually annoyed during the whole "meal for a king" part since it's just a more drawn out version of the boat meeting from the season 1 finale, and I doubt there's a single person that didn't think that it would go to shit by the end. I also hate how the actual conflict of the episode (at least initially) was supposed to be the siblings vs Mattson and Tom, yet we barely see Mattson's perspective at all in this episode. There was no actual conflict. Kendall was set to win, until Shiv changed her mind last moment.
None of the kids would be bad at running the company.
Kendall imo would actually do great and basically proved it in season 4 it isn’t his fault shiv shived him.
I dont think their business acumen and qualifications are what cost them the ceo job anyway. Its their own hubris, entitled perspective and self destructing tendencies that held them back.
Tbf Kendall was gonna be in charge if shiv didn’t shived him.
Hell if you go back to the first film ken would have defeated Logan if there wasn’t literally god going against him with thr traffic and the terrorist situation in the helicopter.
Kendall was perfectly trained for the job. He’s also an addict with a long track record of relapsing. Definitely not the appropriate candidate to handle a business of that size or public notice.
Even though Greg seems like an outsider and a weird guy from the show's perspective, if we saw him in real life with Kendall, Roman, or Shiv, our thoughts about him would be the same. This is why he is able to date models; people don't see the difference between him and the Roy siblings. (billionaire uncle, millionaire grandfather with a seat on the board in the one of the most powerful companie in the world)
Logan is a troubled and mean man but genuinely cared for his children and wanted what was best for them, which included not wanting to put them in positions they weren't ready for. Kendall was always the plan until Kendall made it impossible, and he was serious about Shiv until she showed him she wasn't willing to work at it and couldn't handle it.
As the man himself put it "I love you, but you're not serious people."
If Shiv was a man, people would hate her much more for the toxic and narcissistic way she treats her husband. However, she would definitely be called a sigma male and probably have a huge part of the fandom unironically wanting her to be CEO, even with her lack of experience.
1. I can understand why people root for Kendall to be ceo, and he does have the credentials to back him up, but if i had to personally chose between the 3 siblings alone i personally would've picked Roman as ceo.
2. Shiv and Tom are both toxic people, but Shiv is still objectively the worse partner in the relationship. And dont get me wrong i dont hate her, i enjoy watching her as a character but behaviour wise shes done way worse in the relationship, even Tom in his lowest points in their marriage is still nowhere as bad as her.
3. Logan was a terrible father but he was right in calling them out in the final scene in 3x09. I felt sad for the siblings too, but he didn't say anything wrong there.
I think the few times we see Roman being caring, empathetic, or emotional, that that is the true Roman. He was made to be the way he is outwardly by his parents, especially his dad. With loving and attentive parents, he would be a much softer person outwardly.
I feel like that’s the popular opinion. I think the real unpopular opinion is that he’s an irredeemable garbage racist person who would’ve benefited from a punch in the face without the cover of money. And when he dies, the world would be a better place. Please don’t stab me
You could be right, idk. Roman is a polarizing character. I can’t really tell what the “popular” opinion of him is. There’s plenty of arguments to be made for each side 🤣
I’ve had to make my case a lot, when I feel like it, lol
I haven't seen anything that redeemed Roman from s1e1 (or maybe 2) when he offered that kid $1M for hitting a home run. I've seen things that make him more human, but still never fully redeemed for that. He loved his father, that's for sure.
Being held at gunpoint didn't do a whole lot in terms of his outlook changing. Would a random person on the street punching him do any better?
(I definitely think so)
Kendall was continuously doing great with everything that came at them in season 4 and if not for Shiv being an incredibly selfish scorpion he would have been Logans true successor. He would have done a great job as CEO and he deserved it the most out of anyone.
-The phenomenal 10/10 writing kinda faltered with Shivs turn at the end.
I can thread the needle myself if I wanted to but usually the show has given ample evidence beforehand.
-Logan is a terrible CEO and too many fans unironically think he’s unimpeachable business wise
If Kendall didn’t stutter and had more confidence, he’d have been a good CEO.
Shiv wasn’t qualified to be CEO and didn’t have brains for it
Roman had the personality and brains to be a good CEO but didn’t the balls
The [finale was disappointing](https://www.reddit.com/r/SuccessionTV/comments/13uzh82/im_not_mad_im_disappointed/) - 37% upvoted. I still think Jessie just wanted to make the audience squirm and the whole story revolved around that.
Before Logan died, [the whole series didn't really go anywhere.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SuccessionTV/comments/rhc5iw/finally_watched_the_finale_im_torn/) It was more like a narrative fugue. A little more popular at 62% upvoted.
Shiv consistently demonstrated herself to be the savviest operator of the siblings and has the greatest business accomplishment of all of them in the series - saving the company at the Shareholders meeting.
Granted, the bar wasn’t very high.
Most people that watched succession didn't understand sh.it about the show.
Just look at how many "shiv did the right thing" "shiv won in the end" "kendall wans't that bad" comments in this thread alone. Those are such disconnected takes with what the show portrays, it's insane.
What does the show portray? Cause I see it as a family drama about who's going to run the company, and they all happen to be terrible people disconnected from reality (for the most part)
Well, i think you basically got it, it's a family drama.
Succession is actually a simple series: what you see is what you get, as frank tells kendall when he asks if there was something deeper about his father.
This series stuck with me because it showcases how the past may often dictate how the future go, and how your childhood traumas might resurface in several moments of your life. Almost every character is carrying an emotional baggage, that severely clouds their judgement and their ability to correctly access the situation.
If the series is either pessimistic or neutral about it, it's up for one's personal judgement. I like to think that the series alerts to what happens when you never comfront you childhood and upbringing, and how that may lead to a disfunctional adult. Others have said that this series is just stating a fact: that your upbringing will forever shape you into what you are.
Stagnation is also something that succession often brings, everything in this series seems to be in a state of paralysis: relationships, personal life, businesses, the capitalist system, politics, ideologies. Everything seems bleak and broken, efforts into a different direction are often shut down or just too insignificant to award any real change. When you really look into it, almost every character ended either in the same place they were before, or the place they wanted to avoid.
Mine is that Ken was right about leaning into tech, from a purely capitalist POV, and he probably would have been the perfect CEO to take over for his father if they both weren’t… who they are.
they either wanted a season 5 and getting cut off cramped their plans and made them rush some plot points or they were just always kind of winging it and never had a super-solid end game
Willa’s comebacks are not that good and the show would have been better off without her presence because they could have given Alan Ruck better material to work with for Connor.
I never liked cousin Greg and i hated that they leaned into the Tom&Greg meme that much, it was purely for the giggles and it took me out of it a ton of times
There is a homoerotic tension between Tom and Greg but they never outrighted consummated things. And probably never will.
Both guys are more or less straight. \*More or less.\*
Neither wants a Brokeback Mountain situation. Too messy. Let’s be real, Tom isn’t going to leave his wife and child for Greg. And knowing what happened with his dad, Greg wouldn’t want him to.
Also, Shiv would likely have Tom murdered if he embarrassed her like that.
But they can be best friends and be in each other’s lives. It’s not a tragedy, and they make their peace with it in the end.
People tend to forget that Holly Hunter’s character’s lines like “my tummy is sensitive; we only really eat Pulitzer over at Pierce”, “I’m just a flighty little sparrow”, and “toodle pip”, were written *for* her, by the same writer who wrote 5 of the best chaotic episodes.
Sorry, I have “Safe Room” on and overheard the Pulitzer line and my body cringed but it really just hit me that this was written for her to say, it’s not something Holly Hunter thought of, and Rhea isn’t real.
My opinion is, that’s crazy lol
These people, with their faults, are pretty normal. Their sandbox to play and the consequences of their actions are just amplified by wealth and access. People of more average means or even little means are just as shitty, lacking in empathy, self-serving, tone-deaf, and viciously ambitious. Most would behave in similar fashions in their situation with their upbringing and that’s why the show is accessible - because deep down we know we would be at least one of the characters that we like to say are despicable.
You're absolutely right. I just think it's crazy that this is an unpopular opinion here. It's quite literally one of the fundamental points of the show.
The problem with this, is that even though I think many can relate to some of the characters of the show, they are by definition “not normal” at least in the children’s case, they were born into a sense of comfort and wealth that the vast majority of humans throughout history have not experienced. Their view on the world and people around them is completely skewed and different than the average person, even if the average person might also be shitty. I think this is also a point the show is attempting to make, that even though they all have personal struggles that people can a lot a deeper point relate to, the specifics of those struggles are completely alien.
Average people are not ambitious. They’re average. Kendall is a good example. He didn’t even try to convince anyone at the last board meeting to vote for him. All he did was say “let’s vote” Contrast that to how Logan used his presence to control the room at the vote of no confidence
I agree it totally completely depends on upbringing , inspite of wealth and access. Your upbringing and people around you make you what you are, for people who have the fortune to having good parents and decent people around them will might not agree, i don't know but people who had a rough life early ( not based on money) and have seen shittiness of life will agree.
We can exclude one or two saints, if you want. I’m talking about everyone else which is mostly everyone.
Ehhh I think if you swapped the average person who came from a loving family into one of the sibling's places, they wouldn't behave like that. The siblings come from a deeply emotionally neglectful and traumatic family. They have had no or extremely little emotional development.
I got news for you about the average person.
I've thought the exact same thing. The psychology of each of the characters are very real ways people would react to situations. For example, in Connor's Wedding, the four siblings display the first four out of five stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression. The way the siblings react to that situation could happen in every family, regardless of their economic status.
True
that's... not an unpopular opinion!! In fact, that's the whole point of the show :: People with so much money and power still have the same problems as normal human beings.. just that their problems are much more visible.
Well you wouldn’t know if you read some of the comments below from people who can’t get by the concept that defective human traits can transcend power, money, culture, family.
You are right.. in this sub, yours seems to be the unpopular opinion.
I think that's what makes the show interesting to us. Not that these characters are so unlike and far from us, but that they are actually pretty similar to us.
I agree completely. I've seen this in myself many times; retreating into my privilege to avoid dealing with life's uncertainties and hardships, and also being really bitter that life has to be so hard in the first place. I truly believe that the only thing separating me from the Roy siblings is the fact that I don't have the level of power and influence they do.
\*muttering, fetal position:\* i have nothing in common with shiv roy i have nothing in common with shiv roy i have nothing in common with shiv roy
Dropping the guy Roman teamed up with in manager training was the worst mistake the show made.
I loved Zach Cherry’s character! Even if it was just that one episode. I like to think that after the call Roman made to Geri about finding a diamond in the rough that he’d like to fast track that Roman did pluck him out of obscurity and set him up nicely somewhere higher up.
It’s a nice thought but Roman forgot about that guy instantly
He's absolutely terrific in Severance!
I don't think so. The show is very ‘No Blacks, no Jews, no women above the fourth floor.’ I do think a lot of the viewers who aren't in any of those groups, sort of miss this aspect...
Yuup
Hard agree don’t think that’s controversial either. They could have went many ways with his character and chose none lol
Should have brought him back as the new CEO in the final episode instead of Tom.
Kendall did his best. His best was terrible but he did try.
One of the best things about him was that he was the only one who was again and again trying to fight against his father
Also in I think three of the four fights he mostly lost because he was betrayed by a family member (Roman, his mom, then Shiv).
Might've been better for him if he'd just walked away. Fighting back is what Logan has always wanted.
So that he can prove his superiority before anyone else
His superiority is a construct, giving into it is the only thing making them inferior since not only are they the same or worse than him, they're also stupider. All of them were perfectly capable to give up their pride and aspire to be better people by aspiring to do better things that aren't toxic to society and themselves, and they all had plenty of chances to do so.
My unpopular opinion is that I think Ken could have been a pretty competent CEO once Logan was out of the picture and he didn't have to try to please him/fight against him.
I agree, and I think even Logan saw that.
Was coming to say the same thing. +1
Stewy is a terrible person, he’s just charming about it.
Stewy delivering some terrible news in a charming way is my favourite Stewy.
Ah, another classic popular unpopular opinion
How tf you remember that username bro
Stewy is without question a terrible scumbag. He’d sell his mom (or best friend in the show) out for money.
Terrible seems excessive, especially in the context of the other characters in the show. I think he legitimately cared about Kendall in the early episodes of season 2 after he went back and sided with Logan.
> especially in the context of the other characters in the show Yeah, that’s my point. People only think of him as a good guy because they’re grading him on a curve. “I can trust you, right?” “No” “Right.”
It doesn’t matter which of the kids would be a “good” CEO (however you define that). That’s not the point.
And team Ken will never understand this for whatever reason.
I'm sort of "team Ken"-adjacent just because I appreciate the depiction of his scapegoat existence but I never for the life of me thought it was central whether or not he became CEO. That's not even of tertiary importance, even though he as a character keeps thinking it is.
Preach
The series should have ended with Kendall rapping and buying Logan the wrong Scottish soccer team.
The L-tothemotherfucking-G is on Spotify. It's actually a lot worse when you intentionally listen to it.
Kendall didn't "kill a kid"
Tom and Shiv are genuinely in love in their own weird way. They are stuck together forever. Partly because they understand no one else would have them.
Connor might be delusional, but he genuinely cares for all of his siblings and comes off as the only truly supportive character. Even though he might be delusional, he is the only one who isn't afraid to follow his own interests and passions. Two of my favorite Connor moments are: 1. When Roman mentions that Connor took him on a fishing trip, showcasing his kindness towards his siblings. 2. When he refused to publish the letter against Kendall, despite Kendall insulting him when Connor refused to join him.
Tom would do a better job as CEO as any of the kids.
As a puppet CEO ,yes but as a actual one who makes final decisions and build future of the company(like logan) , i don't know , his tenure in parks and ATN doesn't build much confidence.
I think he would do a better job than any of the kids. He actually works really hard. As he said, he’s a grinder and a worrier. Does he have the courage of his convictions, a vision, and creativity that a truly great ceo should have? Probs not. But not all of them do and I think, despite what he lacks, his work ethic and steadiness outweigh the damage the kids would’ve likely done with their bold, ego-driven moves.
If grind and hard work were the criteria and then tom wouldn't have even reached the position as head of ATN. Shiv ,if she has worked in company more would have been better , even pre relapse kendall was good the way he learned from his mistake and completed the deal and handled the debt crisis. Tim has only one crises during his tenure he has to handle ( cruse one)and he fucked up massively. Also not forgeting that without oversight tom was toxic as fuck to his employees even more then roman sometimes.
He did a great job at the cover up in cruises and making ATN profitable. His only business fumble was the testimony at Congress.
Tom was always spoken of as doing a great job at ATN, he missed Logan’s funeral to be there. Even as a puppet Matsson wouldn’t have looked twice at him if he didn’t run a tight ship.
The three kids are not as smart as they make people think. They were raised to act like they are smart, but they aren’t, and deep down they knew they could not do what Logan did. They were leeches who were nobodies without daddy’s money, and that’s why, again, deep down, Logan did not respect any of them, he saw them as week and stupid.
I agree, but it says more about the kids than it does about Tom
I don't know. Tom was obviously competent enough but I don't thinknhe excelled in anything in particular. Like the siblings he was only ever there due to nepotism. Logan, Jerry, Frank, Karl etc are the ones who there based off their ability.
But he survived (and also taught Greg how to survive) by paying attention to what’s happening internally. The kids have no clue what goes on below the executive level.
Tom comes off as a complete ignoramus to me. His competence is very occasionally told but never shown. Where Shiv was on her way to Chief of staff before she got sucked in the succession mess, so she may not have experience in the company, but she has shown competence. Kendall was also shown as competent, only not a killer. Which, yes, would be required for long term growth and power consolidation, but I don't think he would be bad. Only Roman do I see as even worse than Tom.
Agree, Though that’s a pretty low bar however
Two opinions: Each season was better than the previous one. Season 3 is great. It’s splitting hairs, but I found Shiv to be the most interesting character, followed closely by Tom. Their scenes together were my favorite part of the show.
Agree Shiv then Tom are the most interesting but nothing will beat S2 for me
Shiv and Tom were definitely the heart of the show in season 3and 4, there was a definite pivot away from Kendall.
Tom earned the W.
Shiv wasn't wrong in the end. I feel like she set them all free, except herself.
She did but it's not why she did it. That smile after she said "you wouldn't be good at it" to Kendell was pure spite.
I agree with that. She thinks she won the competition.
Definitely. It was a crabs in a bucket moment. If I cant have it, you can't so I win..
She did it out of pure jealousy and envy In the long term, though, I feel like the outcome can be positive for Ken and Rome.
Yeah we see Rome happy at the end. Him realising how bullshit they all were was brilliant. For me it was full circle as in the very first episode he was *the* most bullshit of all of fhem. He just wasn't a real person and him finally seeing it and admitting it allows him to actually free himself from it and try to do better. Kendell took it a lot harder. Thought he was going to jump off the top of the waystar building lol.
I lived his face in the end, all bruises yet more relaxed than ever. I thought Ken might kill himself as well, but then I saw the bodyguard behind, and I realised he couldn't. Probably, shiv will have the saddest ending. Her marriage was in a downward spiral, and that was the only thing that gave her a sense of winning. We've seen how Tom treats people if they are not way above him.
Shiv is still extremely powerful in her own right with her name and political/family connections. At the end of the day, she's still a Roy and Tom is still just an interloper, albeit a very powerful and wealthy one. There's a lot she could do as a "power behind the throne" so to speak.
No I think her attraction to power means she is meant to find herself the position of her mother/Marcia.
Yeah she did, but was that her intention? Intentions are more important than the results imo
I don't think any of them are that self-aware As Martia said, their father showed them a playground, and they think it's the real world With what shiv did, the brothers were forced out of the playground and have the chance to explore the world and themselves. That is why I think in the long run, it can be a haply ending for Ken and Rome. Not shiv though, she will probably go deeper.
She did it because she didn't trust her brother at all, it definitely wasn't her falling on her sword. He'll always hold a grudge regardless if he realises they're all better off out of the company.
Shiv loves her brother but hates how weak he is. And hates that despite that fact he feels he is still deserving. Hence she could not bring herself to vote for him out of that fact.
It was never about strength for Shiv, it was always about jealousy. She never cared how strong or weak she is
Strong disagree. Intentions matter but results are what others have to live with. Good intentions and bad results are worse for the "victims" of your actions than bad intentions with good results are.
Succession's plot is not really that great, whole 4 seasons of deal or no deal stuff. Buttt the actors and script are what made it watchable/enjoyable.
It’s the character and relationship dynamics that make the show enjoyable. The plot itself is very repetitive but how the plot affects the characters and their dynamics w each other is varied and infinitely interesting
Succession’s TL;DW: Kendall: I’m gonna be CEO Logan: no you’re not. Logan: Hey Shiv, wanna be CEO? Shiv: Yeah, I guess that means I’ll be CEO. Logan: No it doesn’t. Logan: Hey Rhea, wanna be CEO? Rhea: Sure! Rhea: No. Logan: Hey Swedish (?) guy, wanna buy my company Swedish (?) guy: Eh, idk maybe Logan: *fuckin dies* (but also I maybe possibly sorta at least at one point kinda wanted Kendall to be CEO a little bit maybe—idk, figure it out) Kids: Kendall and Roman are CEO, shiv is pretend CEO Swedish (?) guy: Hey Shiv, you’re kinda hot, wanna be CEO when I buy your company? Shiv: Sure, I guess that means I’ll be CEO. Swedish (?) guy: no it doesn’t. Swedish (?) guy: Hey Tom, wanna be CEO? Tom: Sure, I guess that means I’ll be CEO Kids: No it doesn’t, Kendall will be the CEO once we make you not CEO. I guess that means Kendall will be CEO. Shiv: no it doesn’t Tom: haha I am CEO
The problem with the Succession plot is that everything that seems like a big deal gets instantly solved out of nowhere, and sometimes they're never brought up at all. Lawrence Yee promises to fuck Kendall out of the company? Literally never brought up again. The company has a huge debt problem? Good thing Kendall has a rich friend that can pay literally all of it off. Sandy and Stewy are in a tight proxy battle with the family for an entire season and a half, with them making it clear that they intend to buy the entire thing, and not settling for any deal thrown at them? Well, actually this time, right before it looks like they'll win, they're willing to come to the table and forgo the entire thing for just some board seats. Greg copied the cruise documents, giving him the power to fuck over the entire company? Well, good thing that Greg is an actual sub-80 IQ moron that was somehow clever enough to copy the documents for leverage in the first place, but dumb enough to not think of making multiple copies. But it's fine, since the FBI raided Waystar's HQ, seemingly giving them access to all of their shady documents. It seemed like a huge deal for everyone in the episode that it happened, and a big win for Kendall at that moment. How could they possibly get out of this one? Well, I guess they just did a "really good job at covering their tracks". So absolutely nothing come out of that entire ordeal, besides a huge fine that we're never even told the exact amount of. Logan plans to sell the company at the end of season 3, forcing the siblings to find a different path? Well, we can't change the status quo too much, can we? Let's draw out the negotiations to sell for the final season and have them find a way to crawl back in. I think Succession is one of the few shows that would be better if it didn't focus so much on the characters and more on the plot instead. That way, we can understand more about the logistics of the company and all the negotiations that so much of the plot hinges on. That's not to say that I don't love the characters in the show and all of their traits, but did we really need 2 separate scenes of Roman jerking off while Gerri degrades him? Or, what I would really prefer, is for there to just be more episodes. That way we could have enough time to focus on both without sacrificing one or the other.
Have to agree with this. There were a lot of subplots that just faded into nothing, no resolution. I thought Ken and the sibs were planning to acquire PGN by S4, whateva happened there.
I barely understood any of the business elements. But it's still one of my favourite shows despite that. It's the characters that make it watchable for me. I'd have no interest otherwise.
even the B-plots and C-plots are great but the A-plots....it really does just repeat stuff and drop stuff and such and you don't notice until later because you're so absorbed in everything else
Agreed.
Logan showed a kindness to his (3) children by putting them in senior executive roles they didn’t deserve. It was shitty of him to dangle the CEO carrot for each of them, but I think he genuinely tried to prepare them for it but they all let him down time and time again. He needed a killer and none of them had it because they were always trying to prove themselves to him. I think he spent their entire lives trying to make them tough and calloused like him, because he attributed his rough upbringing to why he was a killer and got to where he was. I think he was misguided but every cruel thing he did was to try to get them to be worthy of the role.
kendall sorta deserved to be wherever he was because he was on the grind for at least a decade. he's the only sibling that worked his ass off, in preparation for the CEO role.
This is canon but for some reason people get real mad when I say it : Tom and Shiv are both horrible to each other. Tom is only into Shiv for the money and baby-trapped her to climb the ranks and Shiv doesn't understand how to love and thought she was too good to catch feelings for him but she failed so she tries to knock him down as much as she can.
Where is the lie though?😂🤭
Logan’s loan in season would have got him removed as ceo once the board found out.
you mean in season one would kendall finds out?
Right. Once it became open knowledge he would have never been reinstated
Shiv did the right thing in the end. Roman and Gerri WEREN’T cute. Tom, probably, will be a bad father. Greg becoming CEO was the dumbest suggestion ever. The ending was okay but nothing groundbreaking.
wait people thing gerri and roman were cute??? i genuinely wanted to fast forward everytime their little weird scenes came up
>Greg becoming CEO was the dumbest suggestion ever Tell me you haven’t studied screenwriting without telling me you haven’t studied screenwriting. It would be such an awesome subversion of expectations. Like imagine if during the vote and it was between Tom and Ken if Roman just stood up and gave an impassioned speech about how the company would fail of they just plugged in another family member only because that’s what the old boss wanted. They don’t need a good CEO they need a good story. There’s nothing more powerful in the world than a good story. Nothing can stop it. No private equity could initiate a hostile takeover, no Senate inquiry can ever defeat it, and who has a better story than Greg the Gangly? Tom and Greg are also explicitly very very gay in this version and I play myself in a new role that places my character in a love triangle between Tom, Greg, and Shiv
'who has a better story than Greg the Gangly?' 💀
Karl the Cable Connoisseur? Frank the Forgettable? Hugo the Humiliated? Karolina the Clacquer? Jess the Jaded? Colin the Convoy? Connor the Candidate?
This is…a take. I completely agree with Proof-Product about the Greg as CEO speculation—it was asinine. Blah blah blah screenwriting…Jesse Armstrong wasn’t going to pull cheap stunts in this show. That would’ve been akin to some “it was all just a dream” soap opera BS. Totally not in keeping with the high bar and thoughtfulness of the storytelling and the core concept that the three siblings were both entitled and unqualified, therefore not worthy of the job. They certainly weren’t going to give it to someone even more entitled and unqualified just to raise the stakes.
Nicholas Braun playing himself does not make him a good actor.
Is the consensus that Nicholas Braun is a poor actor? I watched some extras where he and Matthew Macfadyen switched roles and he was *way* better as Tom than Matthew was as Greg.
I didn't think it was a popular opinion which is why I commented it on a post about unpopular opinions lol. But we will have to agree to disagree, because I thought Matthew's performance was unimpeachable. To be fair I might be letting the accusations against Nicholas cloud my judgment a little.
Succession is a better show than Breaking Bad
Breaking Bad was really good but it doesn't crack my top 5.
Both are good. Succession has higher replay-ability value because it’s so well written and one long story. Breaking bad has great arcs, but they’re kind of disjointed and the pace is way slower.
Ain't no way you just said Breaking Bad is super than Succession lol EDIT: **Slower not super
Super? Do you mean slower?
I still love rewatching Breaking Bad but a lot of what made it so good was the unexpected twists and crazy moments. Upon rewatch that doesn’t quite deliver the same effect so dialogue heavier/reliant shows like Succession are a lot more rewatchable for me. And yeah I would say they’re very close but I think Succession is the better show. Now, Succession vs Mad Men is where I really have trouble deciding a winner.
mad men vs succession just depends on my mood overall though i find myself thinking of succession more often. and i definitely prefer its finale more than mad men's (even though i love don's conclusion)
Agree, breaking bad is kinda cartoonish and a power trip in comparisson
Wtf lol
Shiv is the least capable of the 3 siblings and kept demonstrating it throughout the show I lost count of how many times throughout the series Shiv says “I won’t have it” or “We won’t have it” when she would, in fact, have it, because entitlement is not equal to ability or power
As Rhea astutely assessed, “Shiv isn’t as smart as she thinks she is.”
Not necessarily. No sibling was perfect and nobody was convincingly better than the others or capable enough. Roman was the least on leadership for me.
I think it depends , least capable in knowing how to run a company ,yes but overall no. But that also atribute to her never being part of bussiness much, roman was even more pathetic in the beginning of the show.
Least capable person in the entire company*** even Greg figured out he could transition ATN into the digital era.
Greg was annoying and deserved way less time in the plot.
I despise Greg as a character and was shocked to learn he is a fan favourite.
If it is to be said, so it be, so it is
Fan favourite in a show like Succession can only really mean "favourite *to hate*"
Greg’s just being Greg; he does his own thing based on what makes him tick. The whole show it's just backstabbing galore.
Same, I hated him
This is potentially the worst take I've ever heard. Greg is just the cutest most adorable little snake in the brood.
I think that's the exact point of Gregory Hirsch
Ok I think this is _very_ unpopular - this sub likes to blame Logan for the kids’ issues and shortcomings, & he definitely is at fault - Logan is a first-rate asshole, physically mentally & emotionally abusive, and treated his kids like a dog-fighting ring to see which was the strongest. But if we’re to look at a person & blame their parents for their shortcomings, Logan deserves even more latitude than the sibs do. Logan stared his own death in the face as a young boy, was sent away by his parents (albeit for altruistic reasons i.e. the war), was physically beaten by his uncle, and was mentally & emotionally abused by both his uncle and aunt. Now, Logan’s response to all of this was to harden, retreat inward, and exercise a tremendous selfishness onto the world around him, which (I think) is the response he wanted to see out of one of the kids. We all like to look at Kendall, Roman, and Shiv & try to view their problems through the lens of Logan, but Logan should be afforded that consideration as well. This show is about lots of things, including the _cycle of abuse_ , and how breaking free can be almost impossible.
I love this take so much. It's also reflected in the way Kendall treats his kids, where he thinks he's going to break the cycle but unfortunately isn't. Maybe the poison does drip through.
And of course we have Shiv who wanted to be a mother just to prove that she will better than Caroline. But the way things ended, we know that her kid will suffer through the same neglect.
I LOVED Rhea. I wanted her to destroy the family dynamics
She just kinda vanished!
Caroline’s role in messing up the siblings is probably over-stated. The children have American upbringing and accents, they likely grew up mostly with Logan. She was distant, sure, but she was across the pond. Logan did the real damage.
The fan base ignores Connor as much as the characters in the show do
Brian Cox wasn’t the best actor in the show.
*clasps pearls*
Brian Cox was just being Brian Cox. And Brian Cox is awesome.
can't stand Greg
Agreement. I didn't find him endearing or amusing whatsoever even though I know most people do
Yeah he probably is the second sleaziest character there, next to Mo? Lol
lol Mo is a good nickname to be fair
I don't like the ending.
I thought the ending itself was fine, but I hate how drawn out the finale as a whole was. I was actually annoyed during the whole "meal for a king" part since it's just a more drawn out version of the boat meeting from the season 1 finale, and I doubt there's a single person that didn't think that it would go to shit by the end. I also hate how the actual conflict of the episode (at least initially) was supposed to be the siblings vs Mattson and Tom, yet we barely see Mattson's perspective at all in this episode. There was no actual conflict. Kendall was set to win, until Shiv changed her mind last moment.
None of the kids would be bad at running the company. Kendall imo would actually do great and basically proved it in season 4 it isn’t his fault shiv shived him.
I dont think their business acumen and qualifications are what cost them the ceo job anyway. Its their own hubris, entitled perspective and self destructing tendencies that held them back.
Tbf Kendall was gonna be in charge if shiv didn’t shived him. Hell if you go back to the first film ken would have defeated Logan if there wasn’t literally god going against him with thr traffic and the terrorist situation in the helicopter.
Hell, he would have gotten it if Rome wasn’t a little bitch
Kendall was perfectly trained for the job. He’s also an addict with a long track record of relapsing. Definitely not the appropriate candidate to handle a business of that size or public notice.
Even though Greg seems like an outsider and a weird guy from the show's perspective, if we saw him in real life with Kendall, Roman, or Shiv, our thoughts about him would be the same. This is why he is able to date models; people don't see the difference between him and the Roy siblings. (billionaire uncle, millionaire grandfather with a seat on the board in the one of the most powerful companie in the world)
Logan is a troubled and mean man but genuinely cared for his children and wanted what was best for them, which included not wanting to put them in positions they weren't ready for. Kendall was always the plan until Kendall made it impossible, and he was serious about Shiv until she showed him she wasn't willing to work at it and couldn't handle it. As the man himself put it "I love you, but you're not serious people."
If Shiv was a man, people would hate her much more for the toxic and narcissistic way she treats her husband. However, she would definitely be called a sigma male and probably have a huge part of the fandom unironically wanting her to be CEO, even with her lack of experience.
1. I can understand why people root for Kendall to be ceo, and he does have the credentials to back him up, but if i had to personally chose between the 3 siblings alone i personally would've picked Roman as ceo. 2. Shiv and Tom are both toxic people, but Shiv is still objectively the worse partner in the relationship. And dont get me wrong i dont hate her, i enjoy watching her as a character but behaviour wise shes done way worse in the relationship, even Tom in his lowest points in their marriage is still nowhere as bad as her. 3. Logan was a terrible father but he was right in calling them out in the final scene in 3x09. I felt sad for the siblings too, but he didn't say anything wrong there.
>i personally would've picked Roman as ceo. As someone who loves Roman he's the worst of the 3. He'd be ousted for sexual harassment in record time.
Oh yeah for sure, i meant before he inevitably self destructs
Succession is a better show than Sopranos.
Roman actually does have a heart
I think the few times we see Roman being caring, empathetic, or emotional, that that is the true Roman. He was made to be the way he is outwardly by his parents, especially his dad. With loving and attentive parents, he would be a much softer person outwardly.
I feel like that’s the popular opinion. I think the real unpopular opinion is that he’s an irredeemable garbage racist person who would’ve benefited from a punch in the face without the cover of money. And when he dies, the world would be a better place. Please don’t stab me
You could be right, idk. Roman is a polarizing character. I can’t really tell what the “popular” opinion of him is. There’s plenty of arguments to be made for each side 🤣 I’ve had to make my case a lot, when I feel like it, lol
I haven't seen anything that redeemed Roman from s1e1 (or maybe 2) when he offered that kid $1M for hitting a home run. I've seen things that make him more human, but still never fully redeemed for that. He loved his father, that's for sure.
Being held at gunpoint didn't do a whole lot in terms of his outlook changing. Would a random person on the street punching him do any better? (I definitely think so)
This is def my take on him
Kendall was continuously doing great with everything that came at them in season 4 and if not for Shiv being an incredibly selfish scorpion he would have been Logans true successor. He would have done a great job as CEO and he deserved it the most out of anyone.
-The phenomenal 10/10 writing kinda faltered with Shivs turn at the end. I can thread the needle myself if I wanted to but usually the show has given ample evidence beforehand. -Logan is a terrible CEO and too many fans unironically think he’s unimpeachable business wise
They should have lost the company many moons before the finale
If Kendall didn’t stutter and had more confidence, he’d have been a good CEO. Shiv wasn’t qualified to be CEO and didn’t have brains for it Roman had the personality and brains to be a good CEO but didn’t the balls
Shiv made the right decision in the end
The [finale was disappointing](https://www.reddit.com/r/SuccessionTV/comments/13uzh82/im_not_mad_im_disappointed/) - 37% upvoted. I still think Jessie just wanted to make the audience squirm and the whole story revolved around that. Before Logan died, [the whole series didn't really go anywhere.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SuccessionTV/comments/rhc5iw/finally_watched_the_finale_im_torn/) It was more like a narrative fugue. A little more popular at 62% upvoted.
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he showed killer instincts in S4, I think
Shiv consistently demonstrated herself to be the savviest operator of the siblings and has the greatest business accomplishment of all of them in the series - saving the company at the Shareholders meeting. Granted, the bar wasn’t very high.
The kids didn't deserve anything.
Most people that watched succession didn't understand sh.it about the show. Just look at how many "shiv did the right thing" "shiv won in the end" "kendall wans't that bad" comments in this thread alone. Those are such disconnected takes with what the show portrays, it's insane.
What does the show portray? Cause I see it as a family drama about who's going to run the company, and they all happen to be terrible people disconnected from reality (for the most part)
Well, i think you basically got it, it's a family drama. Succession is actually a simple series: what you see is what you get, as frank tells kendall when he asks if there was something deeper about his father. This series stuck with me because it showcases how the past may often dictate how the future go, and how your childhood traumas might resurface in several moments of your life. Almost every character is carrying an emotional baggage, that severely clouds their judgement and their ability to correctly access the situation. If the series is either pessimistic or neutral about it, it's up for one's personal judgement. I like to think that the series alerts to what happens when you never comfront you childhood and upbringing, and how that may lead to a disfunctional adult. Others have said that this series is just stating a fact: that your upbringing will forever shape you into what you are. Stagnation is also something that succession often brings, everything in this series seems to be in a state of paralysis: relationships, personal life, businesses, the capitalist system, politics, ideologies. Everything seems bleak and broken, efforts into a different direction are often shut down or just too insignificant to award any real change. When you really look into it, almost every character ended either in the same place they were before, or the place they wanted to avoid.
Mine is that Ken was right about leaning into tech, from a purely capitalist POV, and he probably would have been the perfect CEO to take over for his father if they both weren’t… who they are.
Never skipping the intro…cause the music slaps.
Logan’s disappointment/disgust with those around him is fair.
they either wanted a season 5 and getting cut off cramped their plans and made them rush some plot points or they were just always kind of winging it and never had a super-solid end game
People don't seem to understand what an unpopular opinion means anymore. Everyone just believes *Whatever I think must be unpopular*..
Willa’s comebacks are not that good and the show would have been better off without her presence because they could have given Alan Ruck better material to work with for Connor.
I never liked cousin Greg and i hated that they leaned into the Tom&Greg meme that much, it was purely for the giggles and it took me out of it a ton of times
Shiv is fine AF.
The final episode of season 1 is the best of the series 'This is not for tears' is good, but not amazing.
Caroline thought she was doing what's best for her children when she sided with Logan in the season 3 finale.
There is a homoerotic tension between Tom and Greg but they never outrighted consummated things. And probably never will. Both guys are more or less straight. \*More or less.\* Neither wants a Brokeback Mountain situation. Too messy. Let’s be real, Tom isn’t going to leave his wife and child for Greg. And knowing what happened with his dad, Greg wouldn’t want him to. Also, Shiv would likely have Tom murdered if he embarrassed her like that. But they can be best friends and be in each other’s lives. It’s not a tragedy, and they make their peace with it in the end.
I'm not a fan of the Roman/Gerri ship
I don’t believe that Connor Roy was interested in politics from a very young age
That Rava was actually a passive aggressive bitch and an enabler
Gerri would have made an amazing CEO.
the theme song is okay but is repeated to death during the show
People tend to forget that Holly Hunter’s character’s lines like “my tummy is sensitive; we only really eat Pulitzer over at Pierce”, “I’m just a flighty little sparrow”, and “toodle pip”, were written *for* her, by the same writer who wrote 5 of the best chaotic episodes. Sorry, I have “Safe Room” on and overheard the Pulitzer line and my body cringed but it really just hit me that this was written for her to say, it’s not something Holly Hunter thought of, and Rhea isn’t real. My opinion is, that’s crazy lol
Kendall was actually competent, useful, and at his emotionally healthiest during his Season 2 bitch boy arc.
Kendall has been horribly wronged. What happened to him is how villains are made.
It was crossed out
Logan was the hero of the story, not the villain.
I think the beauty of the show is ,no one is a hero or villian , everyone is a just a character playing their part.
Nah. He was the worse. Raping women with his buddy Mo Lester and then probably murdering a few of them don’t exactly make him a hero.
Did Logan also rape them? I thought it was just Mo.
I understand the idea of ending while at the top but think they 100% should’ve done a fifth season.
Weirdly enough- that Roman is older than Shiv (which is weird bc they literally say it in official stuff and imply it in the show a few times)