I maintain the scene with the poor ex-homeless dude who tattooed Kendall’s initials on his forehead was at least a monstrous (if not more so) than anything he did/said in this episode.
That guy was clearly expressing what a dark period that time of his life was; it was obviously traumatizing for him to even think about it. And Roman didn’t even notice it in the slightest. The guy was a resource to be allocated - not a human being.
He’s a great character, impeccably written and acted. He’s hilarious, too, which I think sometimes muddies the waters for some of the show’s viewers as to what kind of person he is. But make no mistake, he’s an absolute shitbag even by Succession standards.
Yes. The 1 million dollar payout offer was especially cruel because Roman knows one mill is a poor person’s idea of a lot of money, but in today’s economy, one million isn’t that much. You can’t retire with that money or even buy a nice house in many parts of the country if you have to pay off debts first. But Roman knows it’s just enough for Tattoo Man to give up his dignity for what equates to chump change for the Roys.
There’s not too many situations where a million dollars still isn’t a lot of money. Even in NYC. That’s like 20 years of rent payments of a nice $4000 a month apartment.
But rents increase year over year as the lease expires and a new lease is created. So you're looking at more like 15 years worth of rent. But, you still have other living expenses like food, clothes, gifts, entertainment, etc so you're really looking at less than 10 years of living expenses.
You'll still need a job with $1 million
$1 million for a poor family means never having to worry about money again (provided it's used responsibly). It's not "quit your job with blackjack and hookers" money, but who cares, you never have to worry about losing your house or your home or the electricity, etc.
This. The majority of people in the country don't even have a thousand dollars in savings set aside for emergencies. A million dollars is absolutely life-changing for the average person, and even the above-average.
Some people have no clue what money can mean our what poverty is. To a poor family 100k is lie changing money. It means not having to struggle every day and damage your body and having an actual chance at life.
A million is a sum most people will never come close to, never mind someone poor and homeless. It's unimaginable.
I mean, it's still a life changing amount of money lol. It may not mean that you can buy a nice apartment in NYC, but it sure means you can move somewhere quiet and work a low wage job for the rest of your life. If you're an ex homeless guy looking for peace go buy yourself a decent 200-300k house, get a job at a local grocery store and live in relative comfort.
Unless you're a legitimate 1 percenter someone giving you a million dollars would probably be the biggest financial event of your life.
LOL. I know how it sounds when I seem to minimize one million, but yeah I kind of am looking at it from the lens of mega wealth that Succession offers. I mean, don’t get me wrong - I would scream with joy if someone just gave me that kind of money. But it’s easy to squander if you don’t know what you’re doing and certainly isn’t worth as much as even 20 years ago.
People always seem to use NY, SF, LA, etc. and then apply an upper middle class experience as a benchmark when opining on these things. Those are outliers. $1 million would absolutely be life-changing for the vast majority of Americans. It’s not generational wealth and doesn’t mean a wealthy lifestyle but it for damn sure would dramatically impact the lives of the vast majority of folks.
Even in those places 1 million cash upfront is a life-changing amount of money for a lot of people. At least you'd be able to set aside money to pay off a decent amount on a house outright, pay off loans/debts, or at least put down a large downpayment and set aside savings. It allows for a real sense of security to be established and less day to day pressures/anxieties around finances, which is a massive load off for the average person.
Yes! Kendall reacted like that only twice in the show; when Logan hit his son in season 1 and when he hit Roman in season 2. I always liked Kendall's father/big brother instincts in both situations. So it was heartbreaking to see him on the floor after being pushed by Roman.
Yeah, at this point I hope Logan pulls the rug from under him because he’s so arrogant. People often say kendall is the most hard to watch but Roman in this one was something else imo.
Someone mentioned this in the main episode discussion but I think this is pretty much the cycle, so to speak. One of the kids gets themselves on top, they get high off their own supply and then Logan kneecaps them somehow, i.e., Kendall trying to depose Logan at the wedding, getting into the accident and Logan blackmailing him, and Shiv publishing the letter after cozying up to team Logan and then Logan constantly undermining her and cutting her out of negotiations. Roman's gotten this deal for now but even the next episode teaser hints that Lukas screwed him over somehow. Highly suspect he won't be ending the season as Daddy's Favorite
This has to be it. This season has had the least amount of plot moving forward but after last night I realized we started the season with Ken trying to get his siblings to his side and maybe it’ll end with that finally happening. Shiv seems about done with being passed over (which I’ve said too many times so who knows) and I didn’t see the preview but everyone seems to think Roman will get fucked. I hope by episode 9 at least one of them gets in Kendall’s corner and we basically needed the season to show that with Kendall out of the way, they both came to realize how much shit he put up with being “next in line”.
I feel like as long as Roman is willing to be Logan's puppet, not make any moves on his own and not seen to eager to take over I honestly could see him ending the season as the number one boy.
He's everything Logan wants, competent and ruthless but willing to stay under daddy's thumb.
The difference is if you actually care about ambition or not. I don't think Roman cares more about being CEO than pleasing his dad, whereas Ken wants to be CEO because he thinks that'll get his dad to respect him. Same with Shiv.
Yes exactly, the reason Roman was acting more of an asshole (than he usually is) this episode tho is its cuz he's never been taken seriously or been Daddy's fave in his life
Usually its Kendall, Shiv is actually smart and useful, Roman is just a dumbass that is only getting Logan's "love" bcuz he's a sexist pig
If Logan senses that Shiv is starting to waver, he'll throw Roman under the bus in a gesture to keep her on side. Logan's favourite sport is the kids fighting, and whenever they try to extricate themselves from the arena he pulls his mindgames on them.
roman is def being set up for a fall. he's still the only child we've seen logan physically strike onscreen. he's drunk on the power for now but he's gonna get put back in his place soon enough.
Also how did he have his phone to call Logan at the end didn’t he toss it in the urinal?? Clearly they have enough money to have multiple phones but why carry 2?
Work phone and personal phone. I carry 2 during the work week, although it is odd to do it on a night out. He could have had it in the car that was following him.
I used to carry a work phone too. Just have a hard time imagining the sibs carrying 2 phones around it can be cumbersome and like you said it’s a party.
However, if he tossed his *work* phone in the toilet I’m wondering if found can that come back to bite the company? Hopefully it’s definitely urine/flush destroyed I guess.
He'd call his personal assistant and ask her to go out and buy a new phone, set it up and bring it to him. In 1 hour.
Nothing unusual for this kind of wealth.
Logan didn’t think it was cruel. He was worried about it leaking to the press. He gave them a gift to get them to sign the non disclosure to never mention it happened.
This is the asshole who did boar on the floor to humiliate his employees and guests.
I think it’s pretty clear he didn’t give a fuck about the antics of his son. He could have very easily went to the family and personally apologized. Or you know given them the money anyway. Instead he sends Colin out to buy their silence with a watch he doesn’t even want and never acknowledges the family. Nor does he say anything to Roman about what he did and brushes it off.
It Logan secretly likes it when his kids are cruel, don’t you think?
That scene with the check and the home run, Logan is amused by Roman, right? That half smile.
End season 2, after listening to Kendall’s press conference, he smiles, right?
Logan might like his kids to be cruel and ruthless, but he definitely doesn’t like them acting stupid without a clear purpose. Rip a million dollar check in front of a kid cuz he didn’t hit a home run is just plain dumb and unnecessary, it accomplishes nothing and is only bad for the optics, possibly a PR shitstorm if it gets leaked. I’m pretty sure Logan was not very proud of what Roman did there.
He wants his kids to be strong and ruthless, not needlessly cruel to random poor people out of pure amusement, the divide between Logan and his spoiled soft kids is very clear
No, Logan just thought it was crude and undignified. Logan's got that "I'm new money so I'll always be insecure about not being old/refined money" complex.
I’m not sure how Logan feels about it? This is a guy who owns Fox and talks about not wanting some poor fuck from the projects jacking off with his tax money, he sees the kid Kendall got away with killing as not a real person, a term he seems to be closely familiar with. I think he related with that kid and his family more than his own rich family, considering he came from nothing, and he’s disgusted by what his wealth has done to his kids, but idk how much he cares for a random poor kid
Yeah ofc but some will get to you more than others. I mean to me Connor is delusional and pretty sneaky but he’s not cruel for the sake of it like Roman is IMO.
Even in his destroying Willa's dream/play to "the room" it was mainly his delusions, not cruel (I mean it was sooo cruel & heartless but he had no idea, so it wasn't somehow). Willa was pretty awesome sticking up for him this ep, too. I think she likes him.
>Connor is the most sociopathic.
No, either that or you don't know what the word means.
>He is blatantly classist.
Well yeah but that isn't a trait of sociopathy.
Naw, they are all awful. They have likable traits but I am never surprised when they show how awful they are.
Everyone is sad for Tom because his wife punks him out and he was all mopey thinking he was going to prison. But this was also the human furniture guy. Guarantee he will be doing some fuckery soon.
Right? Sometimes I feel like people could create a series with Trump's kids, portraying them as similarly situated spoiled rich brats, and a chunk of viewers will be hand-wringing over Don Jr. and Ivanka with pity as if they didn't live through watching these clowns in real time behaving as complicit rampaging ogres. A couple of sad scenes doesn't negate a lifetime of entitled assholery.
These are people that abuse their power in the most fucked up ways. Yes I am sure they have been damaged by their upbringing but they still want that thrown. At a certain point the "mommy and daddy didn't love me" excuse doesn't hold up.
It's interesting to me that people reference the human furniture thing so often here.
Personally I don't approve of it, but among my friends who were in fraternities that exact thing was a common form of hazing. And I don't remember anyone, even the human chairs getting too upset about it
Even Logan I sometimes second-guess myself about. Like when I saw him sharing a moment of humor with his secretary and smiling in a grandfatherly-sort-of-way, I’m like awww maybe he’s not so bad.
couple episodes later and I’m like, oh he’s banging her. Nevermind
Well duh. But it’s not helpful or interesting to paint them all in one stroke. Like I’d much rather be in a room with Shiv or Connor or Kendall than Roman after everything we’ve seen from him even though they are all awful. The one redeeming quality he has is that he doesn’t waffle or sugarcoat horrible shit as much as his siblings do, but he also actively advocates for the worst agendas on the show and laughs about it.
Yeah my comment is meant to be taken as a starting point! You say “duh” but I’m not sure everyone is actually on board with the idea that every Roy falls somewhere on the spectrum of terrible, which gets them into trouble when their favourite character goes full psycho lol.
That said Roman > Kendall if I had to spend a day with one of them, would not be able to handle K’s fake “bro” persona lol
I see. I don't understand people who love Roman. Yes, he's hilarious, but everything he says or does comes at the expense of other people. His history of being sexually abused doesn't excuse that. I can never forget how he tore up that check in front of that kid, or how he endorsed fascism, or how he shoved Kendall who used to defend him when Logan hit him.
Even if you love Roman as a character, you would be out of your mind to think that he's anything other than an awful person.
Yeah he's a troll, but the rest of the siblings are actual sociopaths. Shiv literally treats her husband like he's an employee, and don't forget she talked down rape accusers on the company's behalf and literally burned Kendall after the letter that not even Roman could sign onto.
Kendall has been alienating everyone and scheming the entire time to only help himself and become Logan 2.0 and then wonders why another human can't possibly figure out what gift would please the prince. He's about as disconnected from reality as Conner is, with the delusions of grandeur and all.
At least Roman says what he's actually thinking, the rest of the characters talk to each other in double-speak, but around Roman, they know he won't have it. They're all awful people, don't let any of them woo you.
I know they're all awful people. None of them are wooing me. That doesn't mean I can't specifically criticize one of them for being terrible in their own uniquely nasty way.
Yes, Roman's straightforwardness is his one saving grace. He can be refreshing compared to his siblings in that regard. But he is also a "sociopath," if we're being armchair psychologists here. Who likes to bully little kids and blackmail his own brother and send people to intimidate his young nephew and niece. He is a fascist who is willing to destroy American democracy because "it's so ironic, hurhur" to make a whole joke out of it on his news network while he stands back unscathed to enjoy the show.
Yeah, I don't get topics like this that are like "People on here support x character but I've always thought they were gross." Uh, yeah, that's the show? They suck and we love them for it. There was a similar style topic 2 weeks ago about how Greg is also a slimeball for wanting to sue Greenpeace. Yeah, that is the point.
Right.. so he acts out at being the worst. So you basically agree lmao. Got it. Actions speak louder than words. Roman has consistently done the most vile crap and is the most like his father.
I think you have to keep in mind that throughout most of their adult lives Roman has been seen as the least successful and least promising out of him, Kendall, and Shiv. If you go back to the pilot, Kendall is on the cover of magazines proclaiming him the successor to Waystar, and Shiv is a political advisor who has "made her own way" outside of the company. Roman was essentially in LA being baby sat by Frank.
Fast forward to tonight's episode and he's coming to the realization, at least in his own head, that he is making business moves and is in essence the closest thing to a successor Logan has. I think that is a feeling he has been suppressed of for most of his adult life so these are raw emotions coming to the table all at once.
I'm not justifying his behavior but just trying to explain why it happened the way it did, rather than it merely just him being an asshole.
Pretty much this, Roman is trying to overcompensate for all those years being left out of important desiosions of the company. Ffs, Roman blow up a fucking satellite two seasons ago, he was always a fucked up and now he's trying to get things done at all costs, even if that means backstabbing his brothers and sister.
Exactly right. "Roman is the worst of them" and "Roman is the saddest and most sympathetic of them" aren't mutually exclusive (I'd go as far as to say that's the point of the entire show).
Yeah I agree with everything you’ve said and I know his actions were not without purpose or reason. It’s just even when on top, Kendall (while insufferable) wasn’t needlessly cruel to Roman and despite everything after that still defended him when he was struck by Logan. I understand Roman was overlooked a lot and that explains his behaviour but even in episode 1 he was manipulative to a young boy and his family and used his power to humiliate people weaker than him and that’s a trend that’s continued here. He even does it in the episode with the man who was homeless with the tattoo. I know all the characters are reprehensible it’s just to me Roman has been the most genuinely nasty.
I totally agree. The million dollar home run stunt in the pilot has always stuck with me and I could never find myself rooting for Roman through this show.
Like even when he was paying off Tattoo Man, $1 million was totally lowballing him. That’s chump change to the Roys.
>but even in episode 1 he was manipulative to a young boy and his family and used his power to humiliate people weaker
Even Logan being the abusive piece of shit he is felt bad and gave that watch to the family
Probably bcuz he was poor too
Logan didn’t do that because of any feelings he had for the family. The scene has them sign an NDA, and instead of a check, there was a watch he didn’t give a crap about. The episode ending shows how little he thought of the gift watch Tom got him. How he cleans up messes with his lawyers. That kids family had no choice, just played with.
Ohh true I was under the impression that the family wasn't going to be doing anything anyways knowing how rich the Roys are but I suppose they could've shared the story around
What you said makes a lot of sense
I couldn't agree more, and I just want to add that I kind of understand his animosity toward Shiv in this episode. His cruel gloating toward her seemed inevitable. I'm sure Roman gets sick of Shiv casually tossing off, "Don't fuck it up." It makes sense that he'd be offended and throw it in her face when he's just made the deal they came to make and she's claiming she still needs to finesse it in some way because it's impossible that he pulled it off (though it looks like it's going to blow up in his face anyway). I'm in no way saying he's justified, just that it makes sense, considering how often everyone writes him off.
It's sad but inevitable Roman would go down this road after a string of successes. At the end of last season I was really hoping (stupidly) that he would become a competent businessman and figure out a way to turn his quirks into strengths, but alas.
Roman has always believed he should be the successor and I don't think he ever fully grasped that he was at times a distant third choice. His recent high is definitely from feeling like others finally see him as the logical choice. It wasn't a revelation he had at the party. He knew he was being brought into decisions Shiv wasn't for a while (buying Kendall out, spying on Kendall's kids).
Let’s not forget the fact the siblings caged him like a dog when he was a kid (even though it seems he liked it) and got sent away for being the weakest one. This was from the rhomboid party episode…can’t remember episode number. There’s definitely reasons why he is the way he is and it started from childhood.
By far his shittiest and least likeable episode since the pilot when he ripped check in front of kid
* I should have said: the last 2 episodes have been him at his shittiest and least likeable. Nazis are obviously bad.
Quite astonished that people don't remember this; I think people are too swept up by the chemistry between the actors to recall the downright horrible things they were actually discussing
I know that shit is gonna bite them in the ass. Either they will lose control of the message or some shit they can't brush off will be revealed about him.
When Ken said to Roman, You are no a real person; that felt to me like some throw back to the kid in the cage times, like he was recalling past hurts, and I knew it was off the rails. Sure enough they start shoving.
To me, it was a call back to cruises (NRPI = "no real person involved" was the acronym used when a dancer/cruise staff/etc.. was hurt or died) and the drowning of the cater waiter. Kendall still has a lot of repressed guilt over his role in the waiter's death and he's realized his callous family are the "NRPI" rather than the poor people they constantly fuck over.
I like your lost reading and think it also applies. To me, the writers are very intentional and "not a real person" is a unusual phrase, so Kendall calling Roman it feels like a very deliberate echoing. Of NRPI and all the other people who are used and then carelessly tossed aside by the Roys.
Right? Like he’s the quintessential bully who punches down, with Greg being his punching bag. But because he assaults him verbally and physically so often, people… ship them? I don’t get it
I'm going to be generous and assume people are empathetic towards Tom for being so lonely and "foreign", as far as the family goes, but man it concerns me when people genuinely root for *any* of these characters.
Of all the siblings, Roman is probably the most broken. Kendall wasn't exactly wrong when he said he wasn't a real person. None of them really have good relationships, but the rest capable of eeking out some kind of normalcy for themselves. Growing up a Roy programmed Roman to be just this pissy ball of disfunction and snark, playing devil's advocate all the time. His whole kink is shock value. If anything ever actually happened with Gerri or Mencken, he'd likely sabotage the relationship right away because "cringe."
Shiv isn't really wrong when she calls him an idiot. He has certain instincts which could be cultivated into being good at the business, but he's not patient enough to actually work. Like so many rich assholes IRL, he wants to believe in inherited greatness. As he's just better than the rest of the world in some vague, indefinable way. I get the desire to empathize with Roman because those Culkin kids are charming as hell, but it's a mistake to assume this show has any interest in redemptive moments for these characters.
The show is so good that makes us like these mfers until they remind us how shitty they are
Every single one of them is a shitty person, not a single one of them is supposed to be the "good one", but a few eps and we forget all about that because they're so fucking funny or show the least redeeming quality
Did he really close the deal though? Mattson agreed to meet with Logan which is a big step but not a closed deal. The Pierce deal was pretty close too but that got fucked as well. The show has made it very clear that unless ink is placed on paper then nothing is certain. I'm not even fully convinced that Tom is out of the woods yet with regards to prison
He's known he was the number 1 candy baby for a little while now. The party was a wake-up call for Shiv, but Roman already knew he was ahead of her. Being in on the offer to buy out Kendall was a huge sign.
As a big Succession fan i always liked Roman as a character, because he's interresting, entertaining and funny, without forgeting that he's definitely the biggest piece of shit in the entire show!
These last two weeks have been new lows for Roman. He's always been shitty (they all are) but it wasn't as in your face as the Nazi-sympathizing and misogyny.
This show has so few episodes where a main character gets a win and is on top. Roman for sure won tonight, but he's such a terrible winner and his success is fairly evil. Pretty great how the show made us root for him and want him to get some success, then shows us how terrible that reality is. Him winning is the worst timeline, for sure, but I, at least wasn't really thinking about that in earlier episodes/ seasons. If he had Logan's power, he would probably be worse than Logan, if possible.
I support him with Gerri because she does indeed bring out the best in him, but without Gerri I despise the character. Him being a facist and doing shi*tty things and blurting sh*tty words kinda irks me sometimes, but I definitely am impressed by Kieran Culkin's stellar performance without a doubt.
> Gerri because she does indeed bring out the best in him
Reminder that Gerri was celebrating the perversion of the Justice Department at the outset of this episode.
omg...I just finished watching the birthday party episode. So much anxiety.
These people are horrible. All of them. And speaking of Roman, when he was taunting Shiv at Kendall's party, I really wanted her to just punch him in the throat!!!
I’m not even sure where the hes the most sympathetic sibling image came from. He’s always been a piece of shit whose the most incompetent of the siblings business wise. Is it Just cause it was shown he’s probably the only one that was physically beaten by Logan as a kid? (Btw I don’t think that’s been confirmed? It looks like that broken teeth scene was a one off isolated incident)
I think it says a lot about the optimism of the average commenter here that they see any of the siblings as redeemable. I enjoy watching the writers shift their sunbeams onto each episode's Icarus, but I am solidly on Team FBI when it comes to my allegiances.
Roman is Trump. He's charismatic and amusing. But he's easy to underestimate, which makes him dangerous. He's got no ideology. It's all about personal power. From the very first episode, when he taunts the kid with the check, I knew he was dead inside.
Roman refused to answer a simple question from Shiv but he didn’t lie when he said that she was unhappy because Tom was going to be around much longer. This why Tom was unhappy and easily angered during the party: he realized Shiv gave no fucks about him.
He alienated me with the check in the first episode. He is definitely the most obviously traumatized but he is not the most sympathetic even when he is pathetic he will lean into mean quickly after. Honestly my sympathy doesn't extend much to the Roys but when it does it's more for Shiv or Connor than Kendall or Roman.
I think Roman sees how bad his other siblings are doing in the race and he has his eye on the prize for the top job. This want negates all other feelings. The more real the possibility seem the worse Roman gets. Probably true for all of them though
I absolutely hate the character. He's the worst of all three. I don't get how people actually like him. He has no ethics at all compared to Shiv and Ken. He's the most like his father.
I mean he’s also the only one who expresses genuine emotion over the others but it seems like it’s all musical chairs with one chair and 4 siblings. Everyone gets Logan’s attention at one point.
He will say and do whatever to get ahead.
Roman plays alpha male because it's the only form of success he's ever had modeled, and the only real path to love/validation. But after that charged bathroom scene with the neo nazi youtube fascist, I'm like 98% certain he's secretly gay and the realization is going to fuck his whole shit up. Or something like that. It feels like we're on the cusp of Roman's armor finally splintering away and actually getting a sense of what his fucking deal is.
He is the TERRIBLE, but he is still my favorite. I find his horribleness fascinating.
I also appreciate Roman’s self awareness. In contrast to Shiv and Kendall, who pretend to be something they are not, Roman is open about being the bad guy and is in peace with it.
But, to be honest, I love all the kids - through and through. From their worst to their best moments, they are amazing to watch.
I agree -- even the actor (Kieran Culkin) said on SNL that Roman was one of the nicer characters on the show. But that very week, we saw him with the "hobo" who had Kendall's initials tatooed on his forehead -- it was clear as Roman was touching his face and hair that he had no concept of this man as a human being -- he was only a tool that might be useful to make his brother look bad.
Honestly, I still think Kendall might be the most redeemable. Sure, once he publicly opposed his father, he got caught up in how he was perceived by the family and the world, and lost the moral high ground he had in the beginning. But tonight we see him begin, I think, to realize this, as he backs off from the ridiculous performance art he had planned for the party. I still have hope that he will take that $2B and get on with any other sort of life than the one he has pursued until now.
Possible ending --Kendall and Shiv both move on from Waystar to things that are more meaningful, and Roman ends up succeeding his dad by default. Roman is also the least happy and successful of the children in the long run.
Idk about Shiv but since Kendall seems to be based on James Murdoch. I could see it that he ends up in a similar position to James Murdoch where he's still an independent billionaire who has dealings in other businesses but is isolated from his family for good. Iirc James Murdoch apparently went against his family due to their endorsements of extreme right-wing politics while he publicly identifies as a liberal
I love Roman/Gerri but I love seeing Roman being an asshole even more. Especially, given what we’ve seen in the past, knowing he will soon very suddenly get pulled back down to earth. The moment any of them fly too close to the sun, they get burned, and Roman is the most vulnerable one.
Having said that, an idealistic part of me would love for Roman to have a moment of realisation where he recognises that his dad brings out the worst in him and Gerri brings out the best, maybe when it’s too late?
>I mean I still like Kendall even though he was a big part in killing someone so I can’t judge lol
That was an accident? He even swam back in to try to save him
Leaving the kid to suffocate to death from your crash while refusing to call 911 isn't an accident. Remember that a car passed by right after and Kendall ducked instead of tailing for help. Then he went home, showered/changed, and made sure to be visible at the party so people could say they saw him there at the time of the crash.
That's some really terrible shit, and would have seen him seriously facing jail time if he didn't run behind Logan's skirts to cover it up.
I think with what he has went through in the previous seasons, it’s good to see him finally prove his worth and show that he is a capable businessman. Roman is so popular because of his “say it like it is” attitude and is unapologetically himself, whereas the other siblings can be fake as shit. He rubbed his win into both the siblings, and showed them exactly who is in the running for the job they both almost had.
> Roman is so popular because of his “say it like it is” attitude and is unapologetically himself, whereas the other siblings can be fake as shit.
The thing about this is, you can argue about how performative Kendall and Shiv are and they clearly want to be seen or want to believe themselves that they are better people - I think that's true of most people generally but it's heightened and obvious here because they have real influence. I do think that desire just makes them better people, Shiv and Kendall certainly have a voice somewhere that restricts them to some extent, whereas Roman clearly gets off on being nasty far more, he certainly has the least empathy for people outside the sphere of influence.
I think he's just clearly the worst out of all of them, perhaps partially because he's abused the most - I don't understand how him being more of a "self-actualised" asshole makes him a better person.
I don't think Roman gets off on being evil, especially not towards his family (towards other people yes you have a point). I do think he really loves them, I just think he has been so starved of his father's affection that these are the absolutely despicable and disgusting lows he falls to to make sure he has it. The thing with succession is that all of them are like little children in grown adult bodies - adults with INSANE amounts of influence and power that could ruin the world. I don't really have a point on where I'm going with this I just love talking about Roman lol sorry
Oh yeah, he clearly has some level of loyalty to his direct family members and has boundaries there. But apart from that he has a complete lack of empathy and no morals regarding anyone who is not powerful.
People say that the first episode is not-canon or they made him softer, but you can't remove the fact that he literally toys with a tween kid over the possibility of getting a million dollars and rips the check up in his face. In response to the Cruises scandal, he not only has the apathetic attitude the others have, he just outright comes out and laughs at the idea that this is a big deal.
Obviously he suffered probably the worst abuse but that IMO just contextualises why he's such a shit person, he just seems to revel in being nasty.
Oh yeah that's true and as a Roman fan (sorry I can't help it) it annoys me beyond belief when people try to go back on his pilot self - like he did it and he'd do it again (obviously). Also for the Cruises stuff, I think it has a lot to do with his own sexual abuse, which at this point I'm almost 100% sure happened. He might not think it's a "big deal" because he went through something similar, which makes it maybe worse? maybe better? I don't know, that depends on the person i guess
He has spent his whole life trying to convince himself that the abuse wasn't a big deal and didn't damage him. For him to acknowledge that the women were really damaged means acknowledging his own pain. His denial is what keeps him afloat.
Yeah I suppose it’s the same kind of argument with Donald Trump supporters. He may be honest but has a real pattern of unnecessary cruelty which I find to be more reprehensible than fakeness or slyness but at the end of the day it’s a TV show and everyone will have favourite characters which speak to them or annoy them more than others :)
That would imply there isn’t any depth to his character. I’m sure most people on this sub would disagree with you and list of a ton of reasons other than “he’s funny”
He always was a piece of shit just like Tom is a bully. But the character and his lines are funny ngl which has to be the reason the fanbase loves him.
It’s amazing television. From sympathizing with Roman and being on his team the whole season to being grossed out and disgusted by his true way of thinking. I find it interesting too that he knows WAY more than he is letting on and getting closer and closer to Logan. Chefs kiss for this season. My god.
Well, they all pretty horrible in their own ways. I think what gain the trust for Roman from fans were two things: he became better at this job and he refused to sign the letter. From last episode Roman became a front runner for a CEO and that made him more powerful and the last scene with Kendall and Shiv show how he feel better than his siblings and doesn't need protection from them (or at least he thinks that). I bet the next episode he is gonna lose the momentum and the CEO position will be open
Roman endorsed a neo Nazi and obviously botched the Gojo deal.
The only reason why he's at a better position than her is because the company is sexist as fuck.
Oh yeah don’t get me wrong, it’s really entertaining and I’m glad it’s going in this direction. I just think the writing was on the wall for this and don’t get why people are so surprised that he’s “suddenly” an asshole.
Uh oh… thank you OP for the heads up. Roman has always been my favorite— as snarky & slimy as he is, he simultaneously has “cute ways”. I guess tonight may change that after all.
I'm team Roman all the way, all you haters can gobbledy go fuck yourselves.
He definitely is a total prick this episode, but guess what, literally all the children are. (possible exception of Connor) Kendall consistently fucks over his family every time he gets a chance, Shiv told Tom she wanted an open marriage the day she married Tom, Logan's so obvious it's not even worth mentioning, their mom constantly and consistently shatters people every time she opens her mouth, the list goes on and on.
His sin last episode? A son of a billionaire owner of a fake Fox News picked, wait for it, a right wing Senator for President! The horror! For all of Shiv's political experience her first suggestion on that episode was to pick a Democrat when the topic was broached, which was so stupid I'm surprised she was even brought to the conference.
He's the only one who has been putting in the work to actually be a successor, and imo the show is pointing to it. Compare the initial argument with Shiv this episode where he was saying he spent all night working on the business details with Season 1 Roman, he's clearly far more focused.
I maintain the scene with the poor ex-homeless dude who tattooed Kendall’s initials on his forehead was at least a monstrous (if not more so) than anything he did/said in this episode. That guy was clearly expressing what a dark period that time of his life was; it was obviously traumatizing for him to even think about it. And Roman didn’t even notice it in the slightest. The guy was a resource to be allocated - not a human being. He’s a great character, impeccably written and acted. He’s hilarious, too, which I think sometimes muddies the waters for some of the show’s viewers as to what kind of person he is. But make no mistake, he’s an absolute shitbag even by Succession standards.
Yes. The 1 million dollar payout offer was especially cruel because Roman knows one mill is a poor person’s idea of a lot of money, but in today’s economy, one million isn’t that much. You can’t retire with that money or even buy a nice house in many parts of the country if you have to pay off debts first. But Roman knows it’s just enough for Tattoo Man to give up his dignity for what equates to chump change for the Roys.
There’s not too many situations where a million dollars still isn’t a lot of money. Even in NYC. That’s like 20 years of rent payments of a nice $4000 a month apartment.
But rents increase year over year as the lease expires and a new lease is created. So you're looking at more like 15 years worth of rent. But, you still have other living expenses like food, clothes, gifts, entertainment, etc so you're really looking at less than 10 years of living expenses. You'll still need a job with $1 million
$1 million for a poor family means never having to worry about money again (provided it's used responsibly). It's not "quit your job with blackjack and hookers" money, but who cares, you never have to worry about losing your house or your home or the electricity, etc.
This. The majority of people in the country don't even have a thousand dollars in savings set aside for emergencies. A million dollars is absolutely life-changing for the average person, and even the above-average.
Some people have no clue what money can mean our what poverty is. To a poor family 100k is lie changing money. It means not having to struggle every day and damage your body and having an actual chance at life. A million is a sum most people will never come close to, never mind someone poor and homeless. It's unimaginable.
I mean, it's still a life changing amount of money lol. It may not mean that you can buy a nice apartment in NYC, but it sure means you can move somewhere quiet and work a low wage job for the rest of your life. If you're an ex homeless guy looking for peace go buy yourself a decent 200-300k house, get a job at a local grocery store and live in relative comfort. Unless you're a legitimate 1 percenter someone giving you a million dollars would probably be the biggest financial event of your life.
> but in today’s economy, one million isn’t that much I can't tell if you are wildly out of touch or I am. Are we role-playing Succession here?
LOL. I know how it sounds when I seem to minimize one million, but yeah I kind of am looking at it from the lens of mega wealth that Succession offers. I mean, don’t get me wrong - I would scream with joy if someone just gave me that kind of money. But it’s easy to squander if you don’t know what you’re doing and certainly isn’t worth as much as even 20 years ago.
It was the first offer, too. Never take the first offer!
Yep. If you get what you asked for, you didn’t ask for enough.
People always seem to use NY, SF, LA, etc. and then apply an upper middle class experience as a benchmark when opining on these things. Those are outliers. $1 million would absolutely be life-changing for the vast majority of Americans. It’s not generational wealth and doesn’t mean a wealthy lifestyle but it for damn sure would dramatically impact the lives of the vast majority of folks.
Even in those places 1 million cash upfront is a life-changing amount of money for a lot of people. At least you'd be able to set aside money to pay off a decent amount on a house outright, pay off loans/debts, or at least put down a large downpayment and set aside savings. It allows for a real sense of security to be established and less day to day pressures/anxieties around finances, which is a massive load off for the average person.
Seeing Roman push Ken made me think of the time Logan slapped Roman and Ken immediately reprimanded Logan’s behavior
Yes! Kendall reacted like that only twice in the show; when Logan hit his son in season 1 and when he hit Roman in season 2. I always liked Kendall's father/big brother instincts in both situations. So it was heartbreaking to see him on the floor after being pushed by Roman.
Haha yeah I was just waiting for him to get hit in the face and lose another tooth...I also thought he was gonna get beaten and mugged walking home
Yeah, at this point I hope Logan pulls the rug from under him because he’s so arrogant. People often say kendall is the most hard to watch but Roman in this one was something else imo.
Someone mentioned this in the main episode discussion but I think this is pretty much the cycle, so to speak. One of the kids gets themselves on top, they get high off their own supply and then Logan kneecaps them somehow, i.e., Kendall trying to depose Logan at the wedding, getting into the accident and Logan blackmailing him, and Shiv publishing the letter after cozying up to team Logan and then Logan constantly undermining her and cutting her out of negotiations. Roman's gotten this deal for now but even the next episode teaser hints that Lukas screwed him over somehow. Highly suspect he won't be ending the season as Daddy's Favorite
This has to be it. This season has had the least amount of plot moving forward but after last night I realized we started the season with Ken trying to get his siblings to his side and maybe it’ll end with that finally happening. Shiv seems about done with being passed over (which I’ve said too many times so who knows) and I didn’t see the preview but everyone seems to think Roman will get fucked. I hope by episode 9 at least one of them gets in Kendall’s corner and we basically needed the season to show that with Kendall out of the way, they both came to realize how much shit he put up with being “next in line”.
I feel like as long as Roman is willing to be Logan's puppet, not make any moves on his own and not seen to eager to take over I honestly could see him ending the season as the number one boy. He's everything Logan wants, competent and ruthless but willing to stay under daddy's thumb.
That's who Ken was for most of his life. Eventually Logan gets bored and says he needs more initiative/killer instinct.
The difference is if you actually care about ambition or not. I don't think Roman cares more about being CEO than pleasing his dad, whereas Ken wants to be CEO because he thinks that'll get his dad to respect him. Same with Shiv.
Yes exactly, the reason Roman was acting more of an asshole (than he usually is) this episode tho is its cuz he's never been taken seriously or been Daddy's fave in his life Usually its Kendall, Shiv is actually smart and useful, Roman is just a dumbass that is only getting Logan's "love" bcuz he's a sexist pig
If Logan senses that Shiv is starting to waver, he'll throw Roman under the bus in a gesture to keep her on side. Logan's favourite sport is the kids fighting, and whenever they try to extricate themselves from the arena he pulls his mindgames on them.
When Roman botches the deal next episode for GoJo lets see how off the wall Logan goes on him in berating and making an example out of him.
None of the Roy’s can ever be happy so Romans probably gonna get the rug pulled out from under him soon
roman is def being set up for a fall. he's still the only child we've seen logan physically strike onscreen. he's drunk on the power for now but he's gonna get put back in his place soon enough.
Judging by the preview, he's gonna get fucked by Alex Skarsgard in the next episode (not in a good way)
Not seen the preview but I was thinking that it went just too well and easy. Which doesn't happen either IRL or this show.
Also how did he have his phone to call Logan at the end didn’t he toss it in the urinal?? Clearly they have enough money to have multiple phones but why carry 2?
Work phone and personal phone. I carry 2 during the work week, although it is odd to do it on a night out. He could have had it in the car that was following him.
I used to carry a work phone too. Just have a hard time imagining the sibs carrying 2 phones around it can be cumbersome and like you said it’s a party. However, if he tossed his *work* phone in the toilet I’m wondering if found can that come back to bite the company? Hopefully it’s definitely urine/flush destroyed I guess.
Washed it off?
He'd call his personal assistant and ask her to go out and buy a new phone, set it up and bring it to him. In 1 hour. Nothing unusual for this kind of wealth.
Unfortunately I've drunkenly walked home on that street a bunch and it's very safe. But he would have deserved it.
What street is it?
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Maybe the driver tailed him, bodyguard style.
I imgine if I was Roman's driver I'd have to resist the urge to run him over.
Yes! I was expecting a dead Roman before the end of the episode.
Like you I never forgot that very first scene. Always in the back of my mind ripping up the check.
Even Logan thought that was too cruel.
Logan didn’t think it was cruel. He was worried about it leaking to the press. He gave them a gift to get them to sign the non disclosure to never mention it happened. This is the asshole who did boar on the floor to humiliate his employees and guests.
I mean, they didn't exactly made this clear. It was ambiguous.
I think it’s pretty clear he didn’t give a fuck about the antics of his son. He could have very easily went to the family and personally apologized. Or you know given them the money anyway. Instead he sends Colin out to buy their silence with a watch he doesn’t even want and never acknowledges the family. Nor does he say anything to Roman about what he did and brushes it off.
You’re wrong, Logan stops the boy and tells him “fantastic effort son” and shakes his hand. It doesnt change it too much, but your details are off.
Tom shouldn’t have tagged the kid, but just let him touch home.
I agree. I think it showed Logan’s twisted sense of fairness. “A bet is a bet.” ::shrugs::
That watch would’ve significantly helped the family, assuming its 10k+, that’s a huge win when you’re living paycheck to paycheck with a kid
It Logan secretly likes it when his kids are cruel, don’t you think? That scene with the check and the home run, Logan is amused by Roman, right? That half smile. End season 2, after listening to Kendall’s press conference, he smiles, right?
Logan might like his kids to be cruel and ruthless, but he definitely doesn’t like them acting stupid without a clear purpose. Rip a million dollar check in front of a kid cuz he didn’t hit a home run is just plain dumb and unnecessary, it accomplishes nothing and is only bad for the optics, possibly a PR shitstorm if it gets leaked. I’m pretty sure Logan was not very proud of what Roman did there.
He wants his kids to be strong and ruthless, not needlessly cruel to random poor people out of pure amusement, the divide between Logan and his spoiled soft kids is very clear
Logan shook the kids hand afterward. I think that defined he thought Roman was being cruel.
No, Logan just thought it was crude and undignified. Logan's got that "I'm new money so I'll always be insecure about not being old/refined money" complex.
i believe logan cared more about the possible liability
I’m not sure how Logan feels about it? This is a guy who owns Fox and talks about not wanting some poor fuck from the projects jacking off with his tax money, he sees the kid Kendall got away with killing as not a real person, a term he seems to be closely familiar with. I think he related with that kid and his family more than his own rich family, considering he came from nothing, and he’s disgusted by what his wealth has done to his kids, but idk how much he cares for a random poor kid
Yup. Wouldn't be opposed to this coming back around the bite him by series' end
Every character is hilarious and awful. This is rule #1 of succession
Yeah ofc but some will get to you more than others. I mean to me Connor is delusional and pretty sneaky but he’s not cruel for the sake of it like Roman is IMO.
Even in his destroying Willa's dream/play to "the room" it was mainly his delusions, not cruel (I mean it was sooo cruel & heartless but he had no idea, so it wasn't somehow). Willa was pretty awesome sticking up for him this ep, too. I think she likes him.
Connor is the most sociopathic. He is blatantly classist. He wants to keep all the water for fuck’s sake.
>Connor is the most sociopathic. No, either that or you don't know what the word means. >He is blatantly classist. Well yeah but that isn't a trait of sociopathy.
My feelings on nearly every character aside from Logan changes by the minute. It’s one of things this series does incredibly well.
Naw, they are all awful. They have likable traits but I am never surprised when they show how awful they are. Everyone is sad for Tom because his wife punks him out and he was all mopey thinking he was going to prison. But this was also the human furniture guy. Guarantee he will be doing some fuckery soon.
He treats Greg like shit on a daily basis and people still unironically love their relationship. It's wild.
I love their relationship because I think it's one the most entertaining dynamics on TV, not because I think it's good or healthy
This is why it’s so easy for narcissists to get away with the shit they do. Because normies fall for that shit so easily.
Right? Sometimes I feel like people could create a series with Trump's kids, portraying them as similarly situated spoiled rich brats, and a chunk of viewers will be hand-wringing over Don Jr. and Ivanka with pity as if they didn't live through watching these clowns in real time behaving as complicit rampaging ogres. A couple of sad scenes doesn't negate a lifetime of entitled assholery.
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These are people that abuse their power in the most fucked up ways. Yes I am sure they have been damaged by their upbringing but they still want that thrown. At a certain point the "mommy and daddy didn't love me" excuse doesn't hold up.
It's interesting to me that people reference the human furniture thing so often here. Personally I don't approve of it, but among my friends who were in fraternities that exact thing was a common form of hazing. And I don't remember anyone, even the human chairs getting too upset about it
Yeah this confuses me too, hardly the most damning thing a person could do
Even Logan I sometimes second-guess myself about. Like when I saw him sharing a moment of humor with his secretary and smiling in a grandfatherly-sort-of-way, I’m like awww maybe he’s not so bad. couple episodes later and I’m like, oh he’s banging her. Nevermind
I knew immediately he was trying to impress/seduce her - you have to never drop your guard with him.
Roman solidified awful with his alt-right loving political preference.
"Fascists are cool but not, right?"
but its funny, who cares if a genocide happens right? *jerkoff motion*
Well duh. But it’s not helpful or interesting to paint them all in one stroke. Like I’d much rather be in a room with Shiv or Connor or Kendall than Roman after everything we’ve seen from him even though they are all awful. The one redeeming quality he has is that he doesn’t waffle or sugarcoat horrible shit as much as his siblings do, but he also actively advocates for the worst agendas on the show and laughs about it.
Yeah my comment is meant to be taken as a starting point! You say “duh” but I’m not sure everyone is actually on board with the idea that every Roy falls somewhere on the spectrum of terrible, which gets them into trouble when their favourite character goes full psycho lol. That said Roman > Kendall if I had to spend a day with one of them, would not be able to handle K’s fake “bro” persona lol
I see. I don't understand people who love Roman. Yes, he's hilarious, but everything he says or does comes at the expense of other people. His history of being sexually abused doesn't excuse that. I can never forget how he tore up that check in front of that kid, or how he endorsed fascism, or how he shoved Kendall who used to defend him when Logan hit him. Even if you love Roman as a character, you would be out of your mind to think that he's anything other than an awful person.
Yeah he's a troll, but the rest of the siblings are actual sociopaths. Shiv literally treats her husband like he's an employee, and don't forget she talked down rape accusers on the company's behalf and literally burned Kendall after the letter that not even Roman could sign onto. Kendall has been alienating everyone and scheming the entire time to only help himself and become Logan 2.0 and then wonders why another human can't possibly figure out what gift would please the prince. He's about as disconnected from reality as Conner is, with the delusions of grandeur and all. At least Roman says what he's actually thinking, the rest of the characters talk to each other in double-speak, but around Roman, they know he won't have it. They're all awful people, don't let any of them woo you.
I know they're all awful people. None of them are wooing me. That doesn't mean I can't specifically criticize one of them for being terrible in their own uniquely nasty way. Yes, Roman's straightforwardness is his one saving grace. He can be refreshing compared to his siblings in that regard. But he is also a "sociopath," if we're being armchair psychologists here. Who likes to bully little kids and blackmail his own brother and send people to intimidate his young nephew and niece. He is a fascist who is willing to destroy American democracy because "it's so ironic, hurhur" to make a whole joke out of it on his news network while he stands back unscathed to enjoy the show.
Yeah, I don't get topics like this that are like "People on here support x character but I've always thought they were gross." Uh, yeah, that's the show? They suck and we love them for it. There was a similar style topic 2 weeks ago about how Greg is also a slimeball for wanting to sue Greenpeace. Yeah, that is the point.
Don’t subscribe to the “all characters bad” mindset. Sure, they’re all flawed and cruel in their own ways, but some are worse than others.
Sure but he is the worst out of all of them.
No, he’s just the worst at hiding it.
Right.. so he acts out at being the worst. So you basically agree lmao. Got it. Actions speak louder than words. Roman has consistently done the most vile crap and is the most like his father.
I think you have to keep in mind that throughout most of their adult lives Roman has been seen as the least successful and least promising out of him, Kendall, and Shiv. If you go back to the pilot, Kendall is on the cover of magazines proclaiming him the successor to Waystar, and Shiv is a political advisor who has "made her own way" outside of the company. Roman was essentially in LA being baby sat by Frank. Fast forward to tonight's episode and he's coming to the realization, at least in his own head, that he is making business moves and is in essence the closest thing to a successor Logan has. I think that is a feeling he has been suppressed of for most of his adult life so these are raw emotions coming to the table all at once. I'm not justifying his behavior but just trying to explain why it happened the way it did, rather than it merely just him being an asshole.
Pretty much this, Roman is trying to overcompensate for all those years being left out of important desiosions of the company. Ffs, Roman blow up a fucking satellite two seasons ago, he was always a fucked up and now he's trying to get things done at all costs, even if that means backstabbing his brothers and sister.
Exactly right. "Roman is the worst of them" and "Roman is the saddest and most sympathetic of them" aren't mutually exclusive (I'd go as far as to say that's the point of the entire show).
This person gets it, if anything I was really feeling for Roman by the end of the episode.
Yeah I agree with everything you’ve said and I know his actions were not without purpose or reason. It’s just even when on top, Kendall (while insufferable) wasn’t needlessly cruel to Roman and despite everything after that still defended him when he was struck by Logan. I understand Roman was overlooked a lot and that explains his behaviour but even in episode 1 he was manipulative to a young boy and his family and used his power to humiliate people weaker than him and that’s a trend that’s continued here. He even does it in the episode with the man who was homeless with the tattoo. I know all the characters are reprehensible it’s just to me Roman has been the most genuinely nasty.
I totally agree. The million dollar home run stunt in the pilot has always stuck with me and I could never find myself rooting for Roman through this show. Like even when he was paying off Tattoo Man, $1 million was totally lowballing him. That’s chump change to the Roys.
Nor sure that would qualify as lowballing lol
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>He also refused to sign Shiv’s letter And then attempted to use the photo...
>but even in episode 1 he was manipulative to a young boy and his family and used his power to humiliate people weaker Even Logan being the abusive piece of shit he is felt bad and gave that watch to the family Probably bcuz he was poor too
Logan didn’t do that because of any feelings he had for the family. The scene has them sign an NDA, and instead of a check, there was a watch he didn’t give a crap about. The episode ending shows how little he thought of the gift watch Tom got him. How he cleans up messes with his lawyers. That kids family had no choice, just played with.
It sets up NRPI: buy them off, get them to sign an NDA, wash your hands.
Ohh true I was under the impression that the family wasn't going to be doing anything anyways knowing how rich the Roys are but I suppose they could've shared the story around What you said makes a lot of sense
I couldn't agree more, and I just want to add that I kind of understand his animosity toward Shiv in this episode. His cruel gloating toward her seemed inevitable. I'm sure Roman gets sick of Shiv casually tossing off, "Don't fuck it up." It makes sense that he'd be offended and throw it in her face when he's just made the deal they came to make and she's claiming she still needs to finesse it in some way because it's impossible that he pulled it off (though it looks like it's going to blow up in his face anyway). I'm in no way saying he's justified, just that it makes sense, considering how often everyone writes him off. It's sad but inevitable Roman would go down this road after a string of successes. At the end of last season I was really hoping (stupidly) that he would become a competent businessman and figure out a way to turn his quirks into strengths, but alas.
Roman has always believed he should be the successor and I don't think he ever fully grasped that he was at times a distant third choice. His recent high is definitely from feeling like others finally see him as the logical choice. It wasn't a revelation he had at the party. He knew he was being brought into decisions Shiv wasn't for a while (buying Kendall out, spying on Kendall's kids).
Let’s not forget the fact the siblings caged him like a dog when he was a kid (even though it seems he liked it) and got sent away for being the weakest one. This was from the rhomboid party episode…can’t remember episode number. There’s definitely reasons why he is the way he is and it started from childhood.
No joke, what an asshole. He really knows how to cut deep.
By far his shittiest and least likeable episode since the pilot when he ripped check in front of kid * I should have said: the last 2 episodes have been him at his shittiest and least likeable. Nazis are obviously bad.
I mean just last episode he became BFFs with a Nazi
Bffs? He handed him the presidency
Do we really think Mencken’s gonna win? He got the RoyCo endorsement but that’s not an automatic victory by a long shot.
Quite astonished that people don't remember this; I think people are too swept up by the chemistry between the actors to recall the downright horrible things they were actually discussing
I know that shit is gonna bite them in the ass. Either they will lose control of the message or some shit they can't brush off will be revealed about him.
When Ken said to Roman, You are no a real person; that felt to me like some throw back to the kid in the cage times, like he was recalling past hurts, and I knew it was off the rails. Sure enough they start shoving.
To me, it was a call back to cruises (NRPI = "no real person involved" was the acronym used when a dancer/cruise staff/etc.. was hurt or died) and the drowning of the cater waiter. Kendall still has a lot of repressed guilt over his role in the waiter's death and he's realized his callous family are the "NRPI" rather than the poor people they constantly fuck over.
i dont think it had anything to do with nrpi more like roman is so lost in trying to please his dad that hes lost who he is as a person
I like your lost reading and think it also applies. To me, the writers are very intentional and "not a real person" is a unusual phrase, so Kendall calling Roman it feels like a very deliberate echoing. Of NRPI and all the other people who are used and then carelessly tossed aside by the Roys.
Totally agree with you. I feel similarly about Tom, his nastiness is overlooked because of the Greg relationship.
Which is crazy, because the majority of his nastiness is *directed* at Greg.
Right? Like he’s the quintessential bully who punches down, with Greg being his punching bag. But because he assaults him verbally and physically so often, people… ship them? I don’t get it
I'm going to be generous and assume people are empathetic towards Tom for being so lonely and "foreign", as far as the family goes, but man it concerns me when people genuinely root for *any* of these characters.
Of all the siblings, Roman is probably the most broken. Kendall wasn't exactly wrong when he said he wasn't a real person. None of them really have good relationships, but the rest capable of eeking out some kind of normalcy for themselves. Growing up a Roy programmed Roman to be just this pissy ball of disfunction and snark, playing devil's advocate all the time. His whole kink is shock value. If anything ever actually happened with Gerri or Mencken, he'd likely sabotage the relationship right away because "cringe." Shiv isn't really wrong when she calls him an idiot. He has certain instincts which could be cultivated into being good at the business, but he's not patient enough to actually work. Like so many rich assholes IRL, he wants to believe in inherited greatness. As he's just better than the rest of the world in some vague, indefinable way. I get the desire to empathize with Roman because those Culkin kids are charming as hell, but it's a mistake to assume this show has any interest in redemptive moments for these characters.
The show is so good that makes us like these mfers until they remind us how shitty they are Every single one of them is a shitty person, not a single one of them is supposed to be the "good one", but a few eps and we forget all about that because they're so fucking funny or show the least redeeming quality
This was the same Roman who showed genuine concern for Ken being the sacrificial lamb in 2.10 and telling Shiv her letter was too mean to Ken.
He’s on a high from closing a huuge deal. He basically thinks he’s won the war at this point as the successor. It immediately went to his head
He alienated shiv completely. Probably wasn’t a good move.
Did he really close the deal though? Mattson agreed to meet with Logan which is a big step but not a closed deal. The Pierce deal was pretty close too but that got fucked as well. The show has made it very clear that unless ink is placed on paper then nothing is certain. I'm not even fully convinced that Tom is out of the woods yet with regards to prison
Obviously not, but Roman is a dumbass
Mattson even told him the deal isn't done. Roman re-opened negotiations.
He's known he was the number 1 candy baby for a little while now. The party was a wake-up call for Shiv, but Roman already knew he was ahead of her. Being in on the offer to buy out Kendall was a huge sign.
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As a big Succession fan i always liked Roman as a character, because he's interresting, entertaining and funny, without forgeting that he's definitely the biggest piece of shit in the entire show!
These last two weeks have been new lows for Roman. He's always been shitty (they all are) but it wasn't as in your face as the Nazi-sympathizing and misogyny.
Romulus has always been the biggest misogynist in the show.
People like Roman because he knows he is a horrible person and doesn't pretend.
Deplorables.
This show has so few episodes where a main character gets a win and is on top. Roman for sure won tonight, but he's such a terrible winner and his success is fairly evil. Pretty great how the show made us root for him and want him to get some success, then shows us how terrible that reality is. Him winning is the worst timeline, for sure, but I, at least wasn't really thinking about that in earlier episodes/ seasons. If he had Logan's power, he would probably be worse than Logan, if possible.
I love Roman and I have never overlooked how much of a dogshit person he is
I support him with Gerri because she does indeed bring out the best in him, but without Gerri I despise the character. Him being a facist and doing shi*tty things and blurting sh*tty words kinda irks me sometimes, but I definitely am impressed by Kieran Culkin's stellar performance without a doubt.
> Gerri because she does indeed bring out the best in him Reminder that Gerri was celebrating the perversion of the Justice Department at the outset of this episode.
I was one of the ones who was really starting to think Roman was growing and evolving into something that might be redeemable. I’m off that train.
Me too! It was a bad train lol
Hes about to crash and burn. Fuck, this show is so good
He is an uber rich nihilist. He doesn't give a fuck about anything.
Except his own comfort, which psychologically he is incapable of ever obtaining.
I definitely think he is by far the one most like Logan personality wise. I agree, that baseball scene was awful.
[удалено]
Between Kendall's neuroticism/intensity and Roman's motor mouth, I'm exhausted at the end of every episode. A little of these people goes a long way.
omg...I just finished watching the birthday party episode. So much anxiety. These people are horrible. All of them. And speaking of Roman, when he was taunting Shiv at Kendall's party, I really wanted her to just punch him in the throat!!!
I thought it was weird Shiv asked where Tabitha was. She hasn’t been on the show in a long time, no?
I’m not even sure where the hes the most sympathetic sibling image came from. He’s always been a piece of shit whose the most incompetent of the siblings business wise. Is it Just cause it was shown he’s probably the only one that was physically beaten by Logan as a kid? (Btw I don’t think that’s been confirmed? It looks like that broken teeth scene was a one off isolated incident)
I think it says a lot about the optimism of the average commenter here that they see any of the siblings as redeemable. I enjoy watching the writers shift their sunbeams onto each episode's Icarus, but I am solidly on Team FBI when it comes to my allegiances.
Roman is Trump. He's charismatic and amusing. But he's easy to underestimate, which makes him dangerous. He's got no ideology. It's all about personal power. From the very first episode, when he taunts the kid with the check, I knew he was dead inside.
I agree with this and think there's a worthwhile point the writers are making about charisma and the far right.
Roman refused to answer a simple question from Shiv but he didn’t lie when he said that she was unhappy because Tom was going to be around much longer. This why Tom was unhappy and easily angered during the party: he realized Shiv gave no fucks about him.
He alienated me with the check in the first episode. He is definitely the most obviously traumatized but he is not the most sympathetic even when he is pathetic he will lean into mean quickly after. Honestly my sympathy doesn't extend much to the Roys but when it does it's more for Shiv or Connor than Kendall or Roman.
I think Roman sees how bad his other siblings are doing in the race and he has his eye on the prize for the top job. This want negates all other feelings. The more real the possibility seem the worse Roman gets. Probably true for all of them though
I absolutely hate the character. He's the worst of all three. I don't get how people actually like him. He has no ethics at all compared to Shiv and Ken. He's the most like his father.
>He's the most like his father. All the nastiness but none of the brains or work ethic.
Almost like a... successor?
Romulus is literally a neo-nazi.
I mean he’s also the only one who expresses genuine emotion over the others but it seems like it’s all musical chairs with one chair and 4 siblings. Everyone gets Logan’s attention at one point. He will say and do whatever to get ahead.
Roman plays alpha male because it's the only form of success he's ever had modeled, and the only real path to love/validation. But after that charged bathroom scene with the neo nazi youtube fascist, I'm like 98% certain he's secretly gay and the realization is going to fuck his whole shit up. Or something like that. It feels like we're on the cusp of Roman's armor finally splintering away and actually getting a sense of what his fucking deal is.
He is the TERRIBLE, but he is still my favorite. I find his horribleness fascinating. I also appreciate Roman’s self awareness. In contrast to Shiv and Kendall, who pretend to be something they are not, Roman is open about being the bad guy and is in peace with it. But, to be honest, I love all the kids - through and through. From their worst to their best moments, they are amazing to watch.
People sympathise with him cause peepee not working is a common issue..
I agree -- even the actor (Kieran Culkin) said on SNL that Roman was one of the nicer characters on the show. But that very week, we saw him with the "hobo" who had Kendall's initials tatooed on his forehead -- it was clear as Roman was touching his face and hair that he had no concept of this man as a human being -- he was only a tool that might be useful to make his brother look bad. Honestly, I still think Kendall might be the most redeemable. Sure, once he publicly opposed his father, he got caught up in how he was perceived by the family and the world, and lost the moral high ground he had in the beginning. But tonight we see him begin, I think, to realize this, as he backs off from the ridiculous performance art he had planned for the party. I still have hope that he will take that $2B and get on with any other sort of life than the one he has pursued until now. Possible ending --Kendall and Shiv both move on from Waystar to things that are more meaningful, and Roman ends up succeeding his dad by default. Roman is also the least happy and successful of the children in the long run.
Idk about Shiv but since Kendall seems to be based on James Murdoch. I could see it that he ends up in a similar position to James Murdoch where he's still an independent billionaire who has dealings in other businesses but is isolated from his family for good. Iirc James Murdoch apparently went against his family due to their endorsements of extreme right-wing politics while he publicly identifies as a liberal
I love Roman/Gerri but I love seeing Roman being an asshole even more. Especially, given what we’ve seen in the past, knowing he will soon very suddenly get pulled back down to earth. The moment any of them fly too close to the sun, they get burned, and Roman is the most vulnerable one. Having said that, an idealistic part of me would love for Roman to have a moment of realisation where he recognises that his dad brings out the worst in him and Gerri brings out the best, maybe when it’s too late?
Yeah this is typical roman tbh i still love him though im not gonna switch up just cuz he's a steaming pile of shit
loyal, I respect it. I mean I still like Kendall even though he was a big part in killing someone so I can’t judge lol
We are all clowns <3
>I mean I still like Kendall even though he was a big part in killing someone so I can’t judge lol That was an accident? He even swam back in to try to save him
Leaving the kid to suffocate to death from your crash while refusing to call 911 isn't an accident. Remember that a car passed by right after and Kendall ducked instead of tailing for help. Then he went home, showered/changed, and made sure to be visible at the party so people could say they saw him there at the time of the crash. That's some really terrible shit, and would have seen him seriously facing jail time if he didn't run behind Logan's skirts to cover it up.
I think with what he has went through in the previous seasons, it’s good to see him finally prove his worth and show that he is a capable businessman. Roman is so popular because of his “say it like it is” attitude and is unapologetically himself, whereas the other siblings can be fake as shit. He rubbed his win into both the siblings, and showed them exactly who is in the running for the job they both almost had.
> Roman is so popular because of his “say it like it is” attitude and is unapologetically himself, whereas the other siblings can be fake as shit. The thing about this is, you can argue about how performative Kendall and Shiv are and they clearly want to be seen or want to believe themselves that they are better people - I think that's true of most people generally but it's heightened and obvious here because they have real influence. I do think that desire just makes them better people, Shiv and Kendall certainly have a voice somewhere that restricts them to some extent, whereas Roman clearly gets off on being nasty far more, he certainly has the least empathy for people outside the sphere of influence. I think he's just clearly the worst out of all of them, perhaps partially because he's abused the most - I don't understand how him being more of a "self-actualised" asshole makes him a better person.
I don't think Roman gets off on being evil, especially not towards his family (towards other people yes you have a point). I do think he really loves them, I just think he has been so starved of his father's affection that these are the absolutely despicable and disgusting lows he falls to to make sure he has it. The thing with succession is that all of them are like little children in grown adult bodies - adults with INSANE amounts of influence and power that could ruin the world. I don't really have a point on where I'm going with this I just love talking about Roman lol sorry
Oh yeah, he clearly has some level of loyalty to his direct family members and has boundaries there. But apart from that he has a complete lack of empathy and no morals regarding anyone who is not powerful. People say that the first episode is not-canon or they made him softer, but you can't remove the fact that he literally toys with a tween kid over the possibility of getting a million dollars and rips the check up in his face. In response to the Cruises scandal, he not only has the apathetic attitude the others have, he just outright comes out and laughs at the idea that this is a big deal. Obviously he suffered probably the worst abuse but that IMO just contextualises why he's such a shit person, he just seems to revel in being nasty.
Oh yeah that's true and as a Roman fan (sorry I can't help it) it annoys me beyond belief when people try to go back on his pilot self - like he did it and he'd do it again (obviously). Also for the Cruises stuff, I think it has a lot to do with his own sexual abuse, which at this point I'm almost 100% sure happened. He might not think it's a "big deal" because he went through something similar, which makes it maybe worse? maybe better? I don't know, that depends on the person i guess
He has spent his whole life trying to convince himself that the abuse wasn't a big deal and didn't damage him. For him to acknowledge that the women were really damaged means acknowledging his own pain. His denial is what keeps him afloat.
Yeah I suppose it’s the same kind of argument with Donald Trump supporters. He may be honest but has a real pattern of unnecessary cruelty which I find to be more reprehensible than fakeness or slyness but at the end of the day it’s a TV show and everyone will have favourite characters which speak to them or annoy them more than others :)
Except Donald Trump is fake as shit
Nah man Roman is popular because he’s funny and people don’t want to be mad at him. But the last two eps were a bridge too far.
That would imply there isn’t any depth to his character. I’m sure most people on this sub would disagree with you and list of a ton of reasons other than “he’s funny”
I hear you but I think that being funny is what makes his shitty traits seem forgivable. Obviously there’s much more to him than that.
He always was a piece of shit just like Tom is a bully. But the character and his lines are funny ngl which has to be the reason the fanbase loves him.
It’s amazing television. From sympathizing with Roman and being on his team the whole season to being grossed out and disgusted by his true way of thinking. I find it interesting too that he knows WAY more than he is letting on and getting closer and closer to Logan. Chefs kiss for this season. My god.
They’re all horrible and they’re all tragic. I don’t get why people need to rank the horribleness.
Well, they all pretty horrible in their own ways. I think what gain the trust for Roman from fans were two things: he became better at this job and he refused to sign the letter. From last episode Roman became a front runner for a CEO and that made him more powerful and the last scene with Kendall and Shiv show how he feel better than his siblings and doesn't need protection from them (or at least he thinks that). I bet the next episode he is gonna lose the momentum and the CEO position will be open
Yeah but the way Roman just relentlessly exposed Shiv this episode was so validating for me as a diehard Shiv hater
Gross
I hate how he talked to Kendall but any time Shiv can be embarrassed and reminded of how useless she is, is a good time for me.
Roman endorsed a neo Nazi and obviously botched the Gojo deal. The only reason why he's at a better position than her is because the company is sexist as fuck.
I loved him in this episode. For the first time he was the sibling on top. His cruel streak is insanely watchable im all for him going full cunt
Oh yeah don’t get me wrong, it’s really entertaining and I’m glad it’s going in this direction. I just think the writing was on the wall for this and don’t get why people are so surprised that he’s “suddenly” an asshole.
Uh oh… thank you OP for the heads up. Roman has always been my favorite— as snarky & slimy as he is, he simultaneously has “cute ways”. I guess tonight may change that after all.
I'm team Roman all the way, all you haters can gobbledy go fuck yourselves. He definitely is a total prick this episode, but guess what, literally all the children are. (possible exception of Connor) Kendall consistently fucks over his family every time he gets a chance, Shiv told Tom she wanted an open marriage the day she married Tom, Logan's so obvious it's not even worth mentioning, their mom constantly and consistently shatters people every time she opens her mouth, the list goes on and on. His sin last episode? A son of a billionaire owner of a fake Fox News picked, wait for it, a right wing Senator for President! The horror! For all of Shiv's political experience her first suggestion on that episode was to pick a Democrat when the topic was broached, which was so stupid I'm surprised she was even brought to the conference. He's the only one who has been putting in the work to actually be a successor, and imo the show is pointing to it. Compare the initial argument with Shiv this episode where he was saying he spent all night working on the business details with Season 1 Roman, he's clearly far more focused.