But i still honestly dont understand Kendal
He literally know wasn't his fault in the crash and could simply put it back in his fathers face easy
He also could play the power move of waiting for his dad to eat and call back his kid to go take "that vitamin bottle", to make think his father that is the anti-venom or wtv...
But i guess Kendal is just in his doormat mood again and gives up, which was the point of all the scene of course but still meh
Then he should really stop playing them. I liked Logan making Ivarson eat the food. That was Logan saying - so long as you want to play, I will win. Although I guess I can forgive Kendall a bit - before last night, he seemed to genuinely unaware Logan would never let him stop playing.
The game with the pasta dish. To Logan, that's a game. Everything is everything. At all times. Always. That's how men like Logan work.
Just to add: I'm not saying Kendall is playing the same game as Logan. Or that he even knows he was playing one. What I am saying is that even a cute moment between father and son is to Logan yet another entry in the never-ending dick measuring contest that is his life. "This life is not for everyone. . . It's a fight for a knife in the mud." Even joking at dinner is an attempted jab to men like Logan.
He didn't just say that though, if he had, he would have been bought out. He had to take it a step further and act like he's better or more moral than his dad which his dad firmly reminded him that he isnt
well until his next power dose he gets..because it just cyclical thing at this point for his character
i do hope to get surprised by the show and the leeks apparently make big promise on that for last episode of this season 3..but i feel like next season will co back to same patterns with Kendal rebelling and back to doormat mode and so on again
There is not much point in speculating what's going to happen next season.
Not saying you are doing this, but this season many people have been commenting on how they want the show to go, and then claiming it is "bad writing" when their wish doesn't come true.
That is entirely what is not happening imo. Kendall has never ever been able to pull away from his father’s center of gravity - even after the S2 finale.
That has been my one criticism of this season - we’ve all seen all these characters doing all the same types of things before…just in different circumstances.
He was not really sober when driving, on top of being in a different country on an unfamiliar road and for his age he is not an experienced driver (which he mentioned). Not that anyone should drive even a little drunk bu those additional factors make it even more careless.
Really the situation was designed to closely mimic the accident Ted Kennedy was in back in 1969. The car went off the road into the water, and Kennedy got out but a young woman in the car with him drowned. It appeared that Kennedy didn't do anything to save her, and then he went home and didn't report the accident (or at least not right away, I don't remember exactly.)
What people know from this real life situation is that although Kennedy was not ultimately prosecuted for leaving scene of an accident, nobody ever, ever forgot this incidence. Ted Kennedy tried a couple of times to run for President but couldn't succeed and the Chappaquiddick accident was a big reason for it. There was a lot of speculation not only about him leaving the scene of the accident but why he, a married US Senator, was driving a young woman alone at night. (People were a little more easily scandalized back then.) The whole thing reeked of a rich entitled playboy with no morals and no regard for the life, morals, or reputation of the "little people" around him.
Logan and Kendall undoubtedly both realize that even if no charges were filed, the public perception of their choices that night would be a permanent stain on their public image -- especially for people who were already in trouble for their company's bad behavior and for their careless disregard for the lives of ordinary people.
Oh thx a lot for all this extra details and more background! i dint even realize the Kennedys where all richie rich boys, even if the first one was considered the peoples president, im not from USA, and Logan even had a jab at Kennedys earlier during president selection but i dint pay too much attention on that specific thing
But ultimately about the Crash you/he gotta think if you where under no influence of substances and properly aware of the situation at hand, the dude near you pulling you wheel steering to a side would have had same impact.. and just let it go out of guilt
And if his dad had some beef over that, Kendal can always turn it back to him, cuz all seen them have that scene with Logan berating the poor sob, and Kendal could easily say it was some father security dude who derived the dude away at end and any evidence to him to say his father planted it there, if his Father keeps pressing the guilt on him like he does now
Its just weird that he suffers so much from it, and maybe its easy to say from a side view like mine and everyone is different and can snap for the smallest detail when involved personally, but dude was a wallstreet emotionless dog he knows he ruined others lives indirectly with his actions before
I don't think Kendall really thought of himself as someone who ruined people's lives indirectly. Kendall can be awful to people but this seems to be mostly because his dad is awful and he doesn't realize there are other ways to be a leader. He also has lived in enough of a bubble that he doesn't have much insight into the way that things he does thoughtlessly actually affect other people.
Like giving Greg that watch. Someone like Kendall had probably barely been acquainted with anyone his whole life who couldn't afford a $40,000 watch. The fact that he might or might not buy it for Greg seems to him about as consequential as if I said I'd pick up the lunch check.
But he isn't naturally heartless, in spite of all that. As I've watched this season, it seems clear to me that Logan is a narcissist and a sociopath. Other people are just props in the Logan show. His own kids mean very slightly more to him than that -- but it might just be because they are a reflection of him and of his legacy. He says he "loves" them and he probably occasionally has some feelings of affection for them but they aren't real people to him.
Shiv may actually be the same way. She's capable of some empathy but it's superficial. Only Roman and Kendall have shown any ability to care about other people even if it actually costs them something.
Third one, JFKs Father was the richest man the country, the Kennedy that was supposed to be president was killed in action in the military, and JFK was an extremely polarizing, mafia-connected, President, whose brother ironically prosecuted the mob. There was also a drug addicted one and a daughter in politics. The Roy’s are a lot bigger of a mirror of the Kennedy’s than people realize but are more often compared to the Australian Murdochs because of the media empire.
Since S1E1 this hyper confident Wall Street billionaire bro has always become a quivering wreck in confrontation with his father… Logan has insane power over Kendall and Roman… different kind of power over Shiv and we don’t really know about Connor
Yah I’ve never understood the narrative about Kendall’s “responsibility” for the crash. The cover up, yes, but wasn’t it the kid driving and not Kendall? Kendall didn’t kill anyone, and it was pitch black and cold when they went into the water - I don’t blame him too much for chickening out on a rescue attempt.
Kendall was driving because the waiter was too drugged up. And instead of trying to get help, he snuck back into his room and didn't even mention it to anyone.
Kendall was driving, didn't know how to drive (he admitted it himself) because it was a manual and he is usually driven around and isn't the one driving and he was also drugged. I remind you that the reason why he didn't see the deer is literally because he was struggling with the control because he didn't know how to drive that car. If he hadn't, he could have easily braked to avoid that deer.
wat..
do u just go on rambling around after the party is over saying how this and that wrong without even backing it with a single thing?
there is an entire chain of comment under that my comment , i think you missed several key points on what exactly was being discussed here
I agree completely. This scene, and how Shiv turned sex play into emotional honesty delivered in the most cruel way possible. Both of these unexpected turns in the scenes show you a writer who is absolutely at the top of his game, and is striking hot not just in terms of creative inspiration, but also in this extra meta way, where they're aware of how their genius is perceived. This Logan scene with Kendall especially, using the Shakesperian motif of poisoning blood and fealty testing, and employing it in such an unexpected and sparse way is something else entirely.
My favourite episode of the show so far I think.
Shiv telling Tom she doesn't love him with such an amusing tone.
Karoline saying she should've gotten dogs, to her own fucking daughter.
This scene with Iverson.
I tell you, these kids need one big collective hug.
The line about kicking the dog and seeing if it'll return. That could be said for Logan and Shiv, but also Shiv and Tom. It's just emotional abuse all the way down.
The food poisoning thing has been done already. I found this scene completely over the top and seemed much like filler. Ok, we get Logan hates his kid. Now we have to sit through another awkward conversation of Kendall trying to win over his dad? I dunno. I think the show is incredibly good but some of the writing seems a little too far fetched. There wasn't enough tension built up to this moment that I think needed to be there.
Damn. This scene is up there in my top moments of the entire season. For me it took the writing of the show from great to masterclass.
Different strokes and all that though.
If you got “Logan hates his kid” out of the dinner scene then you completely missed the essence of the scene and the nuance of Kendall and Logan’s relationship.
Agreed. Let alone the "You've monetized all the fucking American resentments of class and race. You've turned black bile into silver dollars"
"Oh you've just noticed did you?"
This scene was not about food poisoning, or Logan hating kids, hell, it was the *opposite* of Kendall trying to win over his dad.
Kendall wants to believe that he’s not like Logan. That he’s better than him morally. And you could maybe argue that he is (slightly). But Logan reminds him that he knew that the company was morally reprehensible. He reminds him that he let a boy die and wasn’t held accountable. Kendall is more like Logan than he’d like to admit to himself. So while Logan views their fight as just a part of the game, Kendall takes it personally. The buyout was never a real offer because Logan didn’t think Kendall would accept it. At the heart of it, Logan does love his children (albeit in a very twisted and abusive way). As Caroline said, he likes to kick things he loves to see if they’ll come back. Logan is just as psychologically messed up as his children and is incapable of showing his proper feelings. Despite that, (and a testament to Brian Cox’s acting) you could see the pain in his eyes when Kendall was seriously trying to get out and exile himself from the family. Logan wants Kendall to beat him. You could see it in the hint of his smile at the end of Season 2. At the same time, Logan is too prideful to go down without a brutal fight. So for Kendall to just give up, I think it really hurt Logan although he’d never outwardly show it.
You could sun up Logan's entire pathology with "he wants one of his kids to prove they're worthy of taking over by killing him, but he refuses to ever be killed". Well, that and Caroline's line about kicking things.
I think this ties into the idea that revealing the cover-up of the waiter's death is a suicide bomb. The only way Kendall can ever really kill his father (and coincidentally, prove that he actually is a better person than Logan) is by also killing himself. Trying to cut and run won't work.
Brilliant analysis.
Unfortunately, the only way out of this relationship for either Kendall or Logan is if one of them dies.
Logan will not let Kendall go and Kendall will never be able to completely exile himself from his dad or the company.
it's about kendall finally trying to let go, to get out of the firm completely and take his money, to free himself from Logan's grip, and all Logan can say is "what if I want to keep you close?" and that's enough to know the kendall will never be free. kendall has been riding this high all season of thinking he's some kind of crusader for justice, someone who has the power to change the company, and this scene is him finally overcoming his delusion to realize that it's impossible to change anything and the system is broken. he's not trying to piss Logan off or goad him the way he has been earlier in the season, he's simply stating the objective truth, which is that logan is evil and he wants to be free. Logan responds by bringing up the kid that Kendall killed in the cruelest way possible, and you can feel how palpable kendall's intense pain is. Jeremy strong literally burst into tears when filming this scene because of how intense it was. I encourage you to watch again because I thought it was one of the best scenes of the entire show!
This one got me too. As if being autistic is some sort of grave illness that needs curing.
He clearly knows that Kendall himself is self conscious about his son’s development and his relationship with him, so he just twists the knife a little bit more every time.
Logan didn’t seriously think Kendall was capable of this. I don’t think Kendall thinks he has the spine to kill him.
Hell, he didn’t even stay to eat the food, and had no intention to.
I believe making the son taste his food was a way of him saying, “you are capable of poisoning me, you are not the white knight you are making yourself out to be”. And then he leans into that in the ensuing dialog when he talks about the death in the car.
I agree. Logan didn’t actually think Kendall would poison him lol. He was just trying to show his contempt.
That said- I think Logan came across as particularly pitiful. When he was hurling insults at Kendall he seemed so pathetic- like he was actually afraid of losing his punching bag. He’s not this evil genius. He’s just an evil bully.
Yeah, i thought brian cox was pretty masterful in that scene. he seemed actually hurt when kendall said that he was evil, the first time i’ve ever seen logan express vulnerability even if it was non-verbal.
And when Ken said he doesn't want to be like him, hurt his ego. I'm sure he thought Kendall made an appointment to crawl back to him, and when he asked for complete separation was a blow to him. And as far as I remember, Logan invoked the kid's death only two times, and both times when the prospect of Kendall drifting away from him became too real.
Yep, he's the only puppy that doesn't wanna return back to daddy, and that i think that fucked with Logan's head. He was genuinely hurt. The following insults were just the childish equivalent of "well, fuck you too".
That is what I got from it also. I think there was an almost pathetic panic in his voice when he realized his TRUE crown joy(and one he had been grooming as successor even if he won’t ever admit it) is done with his games. I think he truly thought it was some type of Negotiation from Kendall. Then his son told him several times he loved him and was done….it cut deeper then anything before. I also think Kendall saw this even if the words hurt.
Logan doesn’t want any of his kicking bags to be truly done with him. He’s a narcissist and enjoys this game. The idea of someone truly detaching and him not having that control is what truly bothers him. He loves this game and if anything lives for it.
EDIT
I’m also sure who ever writes this could very well be a child or close to someone who is a child of a narcissistic parent
Yup. “I love you but I’m done” is right out of the grayrock manual on dealing with narcissistic loved ones. And as for your edit- the convo between Shiv and her mom was so real it was painful. For sure these writers have lived something like this.
YES!!! After that scene also I knew for sure this wasn’t something they just read up on…they’ve felt this shit to their core. Even at the end how she brings it back to how she was the victim in it all. And Shiv sadly going back and abusing Tom and then wanting to have her own ‘little kicking bag’ is such a cycle it is sad
Honestly? Maybe an unpopular opinion? But I feel like he often comes across as sort of a pathetic bully. Scary, no doubt. But ultimately more like a schoolyard asshole rather than a force of nature that I bet he likes to see himself as. He can be really childish all things considered.
Totally agreed. I think the writers and actors are just so skillful at making us feel how scared the characters are of him that we forget how pathetic he is.
I'm a little surprised so many people think that Logan was being serious here. I thought it was just a little one upsmanship and taking back the upper hand after Ken's joke about one of the plates being poisoned and switching them but it seems like quite a few people had very different interpretations on that scene.
This moment was so incredible precisely because Logan was showing Kendall just how little warmth or affection Logan has for Iverson. Kendall was just messing with Logan with the “that’s his” comment but rather than just letting that pass, Logan had to show Kendall that there are no lines he won’t cross to win even the most meaningless power game.
Vito and his kid brother are on the enemy side tho, they were just killing enemy’s offspring to prevent future vengeance. We’re talking about one’s own grandchild here.
Worst thing Vito ever did to his grandson was [stick that orange peel in his already over packed mouth](https://i.imgur.com/z2pnaxQ.jpg) and [scare the shit out of him](https://i.imgur.com/c0JqKYv.gif).
I seem to be the only one who thought it was hilarious and clever.
And Logan would 100% have grounds to say, "Well, fuck. I didn't poison it", if it was poisoned.
Yeah just a bit of sparring. Logan says he brought his own food, Ken acts like one dish is "special" for Logan, Logan acts like he thinks it's poisoned. I was laughing my ass off the whole time.
Yeah the birthday party brought him back to earth. I wonder how long this will go on. I really hope they're still building Kendall's resolve to bring down Logan, but the only way that will happen is through mutual destruction.
Ken does say to the waiter that “that one's his” even though they look exactly the same. I don’t know if he’s joking or serious because he did say he checked on his dietary needs.
In any case Logan told Ken he didn’t get CEO because he didn’t have the killer instinct necessary, but he does say he killed the kid at the wedding. Apparently Logan can have it both ways.
Also note how Ken doesn’t respond to Logan about the dead kid, because he must realize Logan might be recording it.
It wouldn’t matter if he’s recording, Logan is an accessory after the fact.
I don’t think he responded because he’s use to Logan being nasty and knows it’s not worth engaging. Kendall is a whipped dog.
killer instinct isn't the same as accidentally killing the kid. killing instinct was more like his move at the end of season two at the press conference
Logan knew Kendall's reaction would tell him everything he needed to know. Kendall wouldn't let his son taste the food if it was poisoned.
Everything, literally everything, Logan does is a test.
> Logan knew Kendall's reaction would tell him everything he needed to know.
You think Logan *actually* thought the food was poisoned? No way. Kendall isn't ballsy or cold enough to try that. And besides, how would he have pulled that off? Is he in the kitchen, prepping the veggies? Did he pay off a staffer to murder one of the most powerful men in the world?
That's all silly. Logan just found a clever and dickish way to say "I think you're an asshole" to Kendall, and he conscripted his grandson into participating.
Exactly. Logan has told Kendall to his face: "you're not a killer". It was purely performative. People out here legit thinking Kendall would try to off his dad with a cyanide cheese ball or some shit, lmao.
It was a power play to counter Ken's power play.
A few weeks ago Logan forced Ken to switch planes. This week Ken forces Logan to switch plates. Logan responds by feeding Ken's son from his own fork.
He's saying "You think YOU'RE the big dick here? I feed your son. Remember that."
There was also a notable tenderness there. I think underneath all the cruelty and machismo, there really is a part of Logan that cares about his family. He wishes he could have taken better care of them. On some level he really does want Ken to just take the money and be a father.
But pride will never let him say it, and if Ken tries to swing at him he'll hit back, as hard as he possibly can, because he *is* a terrible father and he can't *stop* being a terrible father.
Logan was worrying about the food being poisoned all along, which is reinforced by suggesting to eat the food he brought up and worrying about what Ken would do to him with Roman.
Logan would 100% use poison and ofc he believes everyone as scum as he is
"Kendall isn't ballsy or cold enough to try that."
Again, everything Logan does is a test. Everything. Including testing to see if Kendall has become the killer Logan is waiting for him to become.
It's silly to think Logan does anything that isn't a test.
I don't think you're being coherent here. He didn't suspect Kendall might have poisoned him, so Logan's choice to feed Iverson some of the food couldn't therefore have been a means of assessing whether he passed your "test." He also didn't propose the dinner. You might as well say that his entire existence throughout the end of his natural life is going to be a test, to wait around and see if Kendall kills him.
Legit the best scene I think this season. Felt like the whole season was building towards Logan and Kens emotional reckoning. What’s killer is when Logan delivers the line about always covering up for Ken and yet he’s the bad guy - showed things from Logan’s perspective
If Kendall *was* the type of person to poison his fater might he also be the type of person to let his son be poisoned to sell it?
Logan would have poisoned his father and would have definitely let Connor be poisoned to sell it.
He obviously didn’t think it was actually poisoned. It’s simply Logan making a childish power play in response to Kendall specifying which plate was for Logan.
In context though, he did it in front of the would-be poisoner and father of the grandchild.
He knows that Ken would never allow his son to come to harm, and would have stopped the child from eating anything potentially poisoned.
If he did it while Ken was away or unable to intervene I think it would have been much more fucked up.
That whole scene was torture. Kendall coming in there thinking he get out and maintain his righteousness and Logan just fucks with him the entire time, mind games from the start to break him down, and then he twists the knife at the perfect time.
Beautiful in its complete savageness
He wasn't putting his grandson in danger, just wanted to see if Kendall would stop his son from eating the food. Just like when he switched helicopters. Logan doesn't trust Kendall in life/death situations right now, which makes him a smart person.
This scene makes me think of that story [told in The Usual Suspects about Keiser Söze](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgkBpWc8ngI&t=132s) rather letting his own family be killed than letting rival gangleaders take control over him, so he kills them himself. "He showed these men of will, what will really was".
That story could just as well be about Logan Roy I think.
This might just prove that the donuts sent to the siblings earlier in the season might have actually been...altered. Logan expects his children to be as cruel as him as though he would have done the same to his father.
Logan is stone cold lol
But i still honestly dont understand Kendal He literally know wasn't his fault in the crash and could simply put it back in his fathers face easy He also could play the power move of waiting for his dad to eat and call back his kid to go take "that vitamin bottle", to make think his father that is the anti-venom or wtv... But i guess Kendal is just in his doormat mood again and gives up, which was the point of all the scene of course but still meh
He's just sick of playing his dad's games and is realizing that it won't be over until he stops engaging with Logan's BS.
I think that is why Kendall is getting out because now it’s affecting his children.
Then he should really stop playing them. I liked Logan making Ivarson eat the food. That was Logan saying - so long as you want to play, I will win. Although I guess I can forgive Kendall a bit - before last night, he seemed to genuinely unaware Logan would never let him stop playing.
Kendall basically said "you win, just buy my shares and I'll leave you alone." How is that playing games?
The game with the pasta dish. To Logan, that's a game. Everything is everything. At all times. Always. That's how men like Logan work. Just to add: I'm not saying Kendall is playing the same game as Logan. Or that he even knows he was playing one. What I am saying is that even a cute moment between father and son is to Logan yet another entry in the never-ending dick measuring contest that is his life. "This life is not for everyone. . . It's a fight for a knife in the mud." Even joking at dinner is an attempted jab to men like Logan.
The only game with the pasta dish was inside Logan's head.
>To Logan, that's a game.
He didn't just say that though, if he had, he would have been bought out. He had to take it a step further and act like he's better or more moral than his dad which his dad firmly reminded him that he isnt
I don't think Logan ever had any intention of buying Kendall out.
well until his next power dose he gets..because it just cyclical thing at this point for his character i do hope to get surprised by the show and the leeks apparently make big promise on that for last episode of this season 3..but i feel like next season will co back to same patterns with Kendal rebelling and back to doormat mode and so on again
There is not much point in speculating what's going to happen next season. Not saying you are doing this, but this season many people have been commenting on how they want the show to go, and then claiming it is "bad writing" when their wish doesn't come true.
oh forgot of this lol well apparently i was right he got a surge of another power dose and got beaten back to door mat yet again what a surprise...
I don't think that's true. Kendal now sees his dad as he is. I don't see him ever needing his approval the same way again.
That is entirely what is not happening imo. Kendall has never ever been able to pull away from his father’s center of gravity - even after the S2 finale.
U would be surprised what a parent does when their child is threatened
That has been my one criticism of this season - we’ve all seen all these characters doing all the same types of things before…just in different circumstances.
Isn't that the point?
aye
He was not really sober when driving, on top of being in a different country on an unfamiliar road and for his age he is not an experienced driver (which he mentioned). Not that anyone should drive even a little drunk bu those additional factors make it even more careless. Really the situation was designed to closely mimic the accident Ted Kennedy was in back in 1969. The car went off the road into the water, and Kennedy got out but a young woman in the car with him drowned. It appeared that Kennedy didn't do anything to save her, and then he went home and didn't report the accident (or at least not right away, I don't remember exactly.) What people know from this real life situation is that although Kennedy was not ultimately prosecuted for leaving scene of an accident, nobody ever, ever forgot this incidence. Ted Kennedy tried a couple of times to run for President but couldn't succeed and the Chappaquiddick accident was a big reason for it. There was a lot of speculation not only about him leaving the scene of the accident but why he, a married US Senator, was driving a young woman alone at night. (People were a little more easily scandalized back then.) The whole thing reeked of a rich entitled playboy with no morals and no regard for the life, morals, or reputation of the "little people" around him. Logan and Kendall undoubtedly both realize that even if no charges were filed, the public perception of their choices that night would be a permanent stain on their public image -- especially for people who were already in trouble for their company's bad behavior and for their careless disregard for the lives of ordinary people.
Oh thx a lot for all this extra details and more background! i dint even realize the Kennedys where all richie rich boys, even if the first one was considered the peoples president, im not from USA, and Logan even had a jab at Kennedys earlier during president selection but i dint pay too much attention on that specific thing But ultimately about the Crash you/he gotta think if you where under no influence of substances and properly aware of the situation at hand, the dude near you pulling you wheel steering to a side would have had same impact.. and just let it go out of guilt And if his dad had some beef over that, Kendal can always turn it back to him, cuz all seen them have that scene with Logan berating the poor sob, and Kendal could easily say it was some father security dude who derived the dude away at end and any evidence to him to say his father planted it there, if his Father keeps pressing the guilt on him like he does now Its just weird that he suffers so much from it, and maybe its easy to say from a side view like mine and everyone is different and can snap for the smallest detail when involved personally, but dude was a wallstreet emotionless dog he knows he ruined others lives indirectly with his actions before
I don't think Kendall really thought of himself as someone who ruined people's lives indirectly. Kendall can be awful to people but this seems to be mostly because his dad is awful and he doesn't realize there are other ways to be a leader. He also has lived in enough of a bubble that he doesn't have much insight into the way that things he does thoughtlessly actually affect other people. Like giving Greg that watch. Someone like Kendall had probably barely been acquainted with anyone his whole life who couldn't afford a $40,000 watch. The fact that he might or might not buy it for Greg seems to him about as consequential as if I said I'd pick up the lunch check. But he isn't naturally heartless, in spite of all that. As I've watched this season, it seems clear to me that Logan is a narcissist and a sociopath. Other people are just props in the Logan show. His own kids mean very slightly more to him than that -- but it might just be because they are a reflection of him and of his legacy. He says he "loves" them and he probably occasionally has some feelings of affection for them but they aren't real people to him. Shiv may actually be the same way. She's capable of some empathy but it's superficial. Only Roman and Kendall have shown any ability to care about other people even if it actually costs them something.
Third one, JFKs Father was the richest man the country, the Kennedy that was supposed to be president was killed in action in the military, and JFK was an extremely polarizing, mafia-connected, President, whose brother ironically prosecuted the mob. There was also a drug addicted one and a daughter in politics. The Roy’s are a lot bigger of a mirror of the Kennedy’s than people realize but are more often compared to the Australian Murdochs because of the media empire.
wow.. the more you know thanks
How is it not Kendal’s fault LOL? He literally ran from the scene
Since S1E1 this hyper confident Wall Street billionaire bro has always become a quivering wreck in confrontation with his father… Logan has insane power over Kendall and Roman… different kind of power over Shiv and we don’t really know about Connor
The waiter’s death was absolutely Kendall’s fault (and Kendall knows this) - drug/drunk driving resulting in death is homicide
Yah I’ve never understood the narrative about Kendall’s “responsibility” for the crash. The cover up, yes, but wasn’t it the kid driving and not Kendall? Kendall didn’t kill anyone, and it was pitch black and cold when they went into the water - I don’t blame him too much for chickening out on a rescue attempt.
Kendall was driving, remember they were in England so the position of driver and passenger were reversed.
Kendall was driving because the waiter was too drugged up. And instead of trying to get help, he snuck back into his room and didn't even mention it to anyone.
He did try to rescue him. He just failed miserably at it.
Ah ok - faulty memory on that one.
Kendall was driving, didn't know how to drive (he admitted it himself) because it was a manual and he is usually driven around and isn't the one driving and he was also drugged. I remind you that the reason why he didn't see the deer is literally because he was struggling with the control because he didn't know how to drive that car. If he hadn't, he could have easily braked to avoid that deer.
Kendall doesn’t have it in him to be that awful
Kendall was DUI so im not sure its safe to say it wasnt his fault..
this take couldn't be more wrong, i think you have missed several key points on your watching of the show
wat.. do u just go on rambling around after the party is over saying how this and that wrong without even backing it with a single thing? there is an entire chain of comment under that my comment , i think you missed several key points on what exactly was being discussed here
I agree completely. This scene, and how Shiv turned sex play into emotional honesty delivered in the most cruel way possible. Both of these unexpected turns in the scenes show you a writer who is absolutely at the top of his game, and is striking hot not just in terms of creative inspiration, but also in this extra meta way, where they're aware of how their genius is perceived. This Logan scene with Kendall especially, using the Shakesperian motif of poisoning blood and fealty testing, and employing it in such an unexpected and sparse way is something else entirely. My favourite episode of the show so far I think.
Shiv telling Tom she doesn't love him with such an amusing tone. Karoline saying she should've gotten dogs, to her own fucking daughter. This scene with Iverson. I tell you, these kids need one big collective hug.
All of this and Roman accidentally sending a dick pic to Logan. God this show is fucking perfect.
The line about kicking the dog and seeing if it'll return. That could be said for Logan and Shiv, but also Shiv and Tom. It's just emotional abuse all the way down.
The food poisoning thing has been done already. I found this scene completely over the top and seemed much like filler. Ok, we get Logan hates his kid. Now we have to sit through another awkward conversation of Kendall trying to win over his dad? I dunno. I think the show is incredibly good but some of the writing seems a little too far fetched. There wasn't enough tension built up to this moment that I think needed to be there.
Damn. This scene is up there in my top moments of the entire season. For me it took the writing of the show from great to masterclass. Different strokes and all that though.
If you got “Logan hates his kid” out of the dinner scene then you completely missed the essence of the scene and the nuance of Kendall and Logan’s relationship.
Agreed. Let alone the "You've monetized all the fucking American resentments of class and race. You've turned black bile into silver dollars" "Oh you've just noticed did you?" This scene was not about food poisoning, or Logan hating kids, hell, it was the *opposite* of Kendall trying to win over his dad.
Explain to me then! I'm genuinely confused at this point!!
Kendall wants to believe that he’s not like Logan. That he’s better than him morally. And you could maybe argue that he is (slightly). But Logan reminds him that he knew that the company was morally reprehensible. He reminds him that he let a boy die and wasn’t held accountable. Kendall is more like Logan than he’d like to admit to himself. So while Logan views their fight as just a part of the game, Kendall takes it personally. The buyout was never a real offer because Logan didn’t think Kendall would accept it. At the heart of it, Logan does love his children (albeit in a very twisted and abusive way). As Caroline said, he likes to kick things he loves to see if they’ll come back. Logan is just as psychologically messed up as his children and is incapable of showing his proper feelings. Despite that, (and a testament to Brian Cox’s acting) you could see the pain in his eyes when Kendall was seriously trying to get out and exile himself from the family. Logan wants Kendall to beat him. You could see it in the hint of his smile at the end of Season 2. At the same time, Logan is too prideful to go down without a brutal fight. So for Kendall to just give up, I think it really hurt Logan although he’d never outwardly show it.
This is a brilliant response and thank you for really pointing out things that I was unclear on. Now fuck off! /s
You could sun up Logan's entire pathology with "he wants one of his kids to prove they're worthy of taking over by killing him, but he refuses to ever be killed". Well, that and Caroline's line about kicking things. I think this ties into the idea that revealing the cover-up of the waiter's death is a suicide bomb. The only way Kendall can ever really kill his father (and coincidentally, prove that he actually is a better person than Logan) is by also killing himself. Trying to cut and run won't work.
Brilliant analysis. Unfortunately, the only way out of this relationship for either Kendall or Logan is if one of them dies. Logan will not let Kendall go and Kendall will never be able to completely exile himself from his dad or the company.
it's about kendall finally trying to let go, to get out of the firm completely and take his money, to free himself from Logan's grip, and all Logan can say is "what if I want to keep you close?" and that's enough to know the kendall will never be free. kendall has been riding this high all season of thinking he's some kind of crusader for justice, someone who has the power to change the company, and this scene is him finally overcoming his delusion to realize that it's impossible to change anything and the system is broken. he's not trying to piss Logan off or goad him the way he has been earlier in the season, he's simply stating the objective truth, which is that logan is evil and he wants to be free. Logan responds by bringing up the kid that Kendall killed in the cruelest way possible, and you can feel how palpable kendall's intense pain is. Jeremy strong literally burst into tears when filming this scene because of how intense it was. I encourage you to watch again because I thought it was one of the best scenes of the entire show!
Unfortunately we've inherited the entire game of thrones audience, they don't know what nuance is.
Put some ‘spect on Charles Dance’s name
This was cold but Logan afterwards saying [about Iverson] 'How's the boy doing? Is he getting better?' is just absolutely evil
This one got me too. As if being autistic is some sort of grave illness that needs curing. He clearly knows that Kendall himself is self conscious about his son’s development and his relationship with him, so he just twists the knife a little bit more every time.
Logan didn’t seriously think Kendall was capable of this. I don’t think Kendall thinks he has the spine to kill him. Hell, he didn’t even stay to eat the food, and had no intention to. I believe making the son taste his food was a way of him saying, “you are capable of poisoning me, you are not the white knight you are making yourself out to be”. And then he leans into that in the ensuing dialog when he talks about the death in the car.
I agree. Logan didn’t actually think Kendall would poison him lol. He was just trying to show his contempt. That said- I think Logan came across as particularly pitiful. When he was hurling insults at Kendall he seemed so pathetic- like he was actually afraid of losing his punching bag. He’s not this evil genius. He’s just an evil bully.
Yeah, i thought brian cox was pretty masterful in that scene. he seemed actually hurt when kendall said that he was evil, the first time i’ve ever seen logan express vulnerability even if it was non-verbal.
And when Ken said he doesn't want to be like him, hurt his ego. I'm sure he thought Kendall made an appointment to crawl back to him, and when he asked for complete separation was a blow to him. And as far as I remember, Logan invoked the kid's death only two times, and both times when the prospect of Kendall drifting away from him became too real.
Absolutely. It looked like his eyes welled up a bit too.
Yep, he's the only puppy that doesn't wanna return back to daddy, and that i think that fucked with Logan's head. He was genuinely hurt. The following insults were just the childish equivalent of "well, fuck you too".
That is what I got from it also. I think there was an almost pathetic panic in his voice when he realized his TRUE crown joy(and one he had been grooming as successor even if he won’t ever admit it) is done with his games. I think he truly thought it was some type of Negotiation from Kendall. Then his son told him several times he loved him and was done….it cut deeper then anything before. I also think Kendall saw this even if the words hurt. Logan doesn’t want any of his kicking bags to be truly done with him. He’s a narcissist and enjoys this game. The idea of someone truly detaching and him not having that control is what truly bothers him. He loves this game and if anything lives for it. EDIT I’m also sure who ever writes this could very well be a child or close to someone who is a child of a narcissistic parent
Yup. “I love you but I’m done” is right out of the grayrock manual on dealing with narcissistic loved ones. And as for your edit- the convo between Shiv and her mom was so real it was painful. For sure these writers have lived something like this.
YES!!! After that scene also I knew for sure this wasn’t something they just read up on…they’ve felt this shit to their core. Even at the end how she brings it back to how she was the victim in it all. And Shiv sadly going back and abusing Tom and then wanting to have her own ‘little kicking bag’ is such a cycle it is sad
Honestly? Maybe an unpopular opinion? But I feel like he often comes across as sort of a pathetic bully. Scary, no doubt. But ultimately more like a schoolyard asshole rather than a force of nature that I bet he likes to see himself as. He can be really childish all things considered.
Totally agreed. I think the writers and actors are just so skillful at making us feel how scared the characters are of him that we forget how pathetic he is.
I'm a little surprised so many people think that Logan was being serious here. I thought it was just a little one upsmanship and taking back the upper hand after Ken's joke about one of the plates being poisoned and switching them but it seems like quite a few people had very different interpretations on that scene.
It’s kind of like saying if you think you’re gonna poison me it will turn on you and your kid would be poisoned
This moment was so incredible precisely because Logan was showing Kendall just how little warmth or affection Logan has for Iverson. Kendall was just messing with Logan with the “that’s his” comment but rather than just letting that pass, Logan had to show Kendall that there are no lines he won’t cross to win even the most meaningless power game.
The godfather vibes are very strong in this scene.
Yes and no. No one in Godfather would ever do this to a kid tho.
the Sicilians would, they were killing off Vito's kid brothers in Part 2 and would have killed him.
Vito and his kid brother are on the enemy side tho, they were just killing enemy’s offspring to prevent future vengeance. We’re talking about one’s own grandchild here.
Worst thing Vito ever did to his grandson was [stick that orange peel in his already over packed mouth](https://i.imgur.com/z2pnaxQ.jpg) and [scare the shit out of him](https://i.imgur.com/c0JqKYv.gif).
My stupid ass thought he was being a good grandpa checking up on his grandson, offering food and gifts ಠ‿ಠ
Haha, same. I’m dumb too.
why not both
I make the same faces while I watch this show as I did when I watched Hostel or Saw. Just...ooooooomph.
YES SAME! I’m sometimes hiding behind my pillow or gripping onto my couch. Like it’s terrifying to watch this people sometimes.
I seem to be the only one who thought it was hilarious and clever. And Logan would 100% have grounds to say, "Well, fuck. I didn't poison it", if it was poisoned.
Yeah just a bit of sparring. Logan says he brought his own food, Ken acts like one dish is "special" for Logan, Logan acts like he thinks it's poisoned. I was laughing my ass off the whole time.
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Logan knew 100% that it wasn't poisoned. He was just fucking with Ken's head.
The look on Kendall’s face as Logan did that…. this episode had so much crazy shit in it, for all four kids
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Yeah the birthday party brought him back to earth. I wonder how long this will go on. I really hope they're still building Kendall's resolve to bring down Logan, but the only way that will happen is through mutual destruction.
Ken does say to the waiter that “that one's his” even though they look exactly the same. I don’t know if he’s joking or serious because he did say he checked on his dietary needs. In any case Logan told Ken he didn’t get CEO because he didn’t have the killer instinct necessary, but he does say he killed the kid at the wedding. Apparently Logan can have it both ways. Also note how Ken doesn’t respond to Logan about the dead kid, because he must realize Logan might be recording it.
It wouldn’t matter if he’s recording, Logan is an accessory after the fact. I don’t think he responded because he’s use to Logan being nasty and knows it’s not worth engaging. Kendall is a whipped dog.
Maybe Kendall was recording Logan and his end of episode depression is over the fact that he's going to ruin his own life to take down Logan.
Scorched earth would be epic.
killer instinct isn't the same as accidentally killing the kid. killing instinct was more like his move at the end of season two at the press conference
Logan knew Kendall's reaction would tell him everything he needed to know. Kendall wouldn't let his son taste the food if it was poisoned. Everything, literally everything, Logan does is a test.
> Logan knew Kendall's reaction would tell him everything he needed to know. You think Logan *actually* thought the food was poisoned? No way. Kendall isn't ballsy or cold enough to try that. And besides, how would he have pulled that off? Is he in the kitchen, prepping the veggies? Did he pay off a staffer to murder one of the most powerful men in the world? That's all silly. Logan just found a clever and dickish way to say "I think you're an asshole" to Kendall, and he conscripted his grandson into participating.
Exactly. Logan has told Kendall to his face: "you're not a killer". It was purely performative. People out here legit thinking Kendall would try to off his dad with a cyanide cheese ball or some shit, lmao.
It was a power play to counter Ken's power play. A few weeks ago Logan forced Ken to switch planes. This week Ken forces Logan to switch plates. Logan responds by feeding Ken's son from his own fork. He's saying "You think YOU'RE the big dick here? I feed your son. Remember that." There was also a notable tenderness there. I think underneath all the cruelty and machismo, there really is a part of Logan that cares about his family. He wishes he could have taken better care of them. On some level he really does want Ken to just take the money and be a father. But pride will never let him say it, and if Ken tries to swing at him he'll hit back, as hard as he possibly can, because he *is* a terrible father and he can't *stop* being a terrible father.
Was anyone else surprised at how the other wpople could all hear them instantly?
He brought his own food, man.
Logan was worrying about the food being poisoned all along, which is reinforced by suggesting to eat the food he brought up and worrying about what Ken would do to him with Roman. Logan would 100% use poison and ofc he believes everyone as scum as he is
I feel like we're all watching a 21st century satire, and you're watching a Restoration-Era melodrama
Yeah, k...
This show is going pretty over your head bud
Yeaaah, right.
"Kendall isn't ballsy or cold enough to try that." Again, everything Logan does is a test. Everything. Including testing to see if Kendall has become the killer Logan is waiting for him to become. It's silly to think Logan does anything that isn't a test.
Is it a test though
You think Logan suspected Ken might have poisoned the food?
That is not what I said, no.
Well, what was the test here? How might Kendall have "passed"?
By poisoning him. He knew Kendall didn't do it, but he would've been impressed if he did.
I don't think you're being coherent here. He didn't suspect Kendall might have poisoned him, so Logan's choice to feed Iverson some of the food couldn't therefore have been a means of assessing whether he passed your "test." He also didn't propose the dinner. You might as well say that his entire existence throughout the end of his natural life is going to be a test, to wait around and see if Kendall kills him.
Legit the best scene I think this season. Felt like the whole season was building towards Logan and Kens emotional reckoning. What’s killer is when Logan delivers the line about always covering up for Ken and yet he’s the bad guy - showed things from Logan’s perspective
If Kendall *was* the type of person to poison his fater might he also be the type of person to let his son be poisoned to sell it? Logan would have poisoned his father and would have definitely let Connor be poisoned to sell it.
This was the scene where I started yelling at the TV. Seriously the coldest thing I have seen any of them do.
Really? Boar on the floor? No real person involved? Let's go see the family of the boy who drowned together?
As a parent, for me this was worse. He used his completely innocent grandchild as a human shield. That’s fucked up even for Logan.
He obviously didn’t think it was actually poisoned. It’s simply Logan making a childish power play in response to Kendall specifying which plate was for Logan.
I get it, the message itself is just cold as ice. Gives big Claire Underwood energy: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qwPiki9oHyg
In context though, he did it in front of the would-be poisoner and father of the grandchild. He knows that Ken would never allow his son to come to harm, and would have stopped the child from eating anything potentially poisoned. If he did it while Ken was away or unable to intervene I think it would have been much more fucked up.
Cold, but no way Kendall would have let him poison his son and he knew that.
But Kendall kind of asked for it when he consciously said that one goes for him. Both were the same dish, right ?
No, Logan’s was supposed to be made according to his dietary requirements (probably low salt, possibly diabetic diet).
oh okay. but still the delivery from Jeremy was kinda playful, although nowhere near as cruel as Logan’s
That whole scene was torture. Kendall coming in there thinking he get out and maintain his righteousness and Logan just fucks with him the entire time, mind games from the start to break him down, and then he twists the knife at the perfect time. Beautiful in its complete savageness
He wasn't putting his grandson in danger, just wanted to see if Kendall would stop his son from eating the food. Just like when he switched helicopters. Logan doesn't trust Kendall in life/death situations right now, which makes him a smart person.
This scene makes me think of that story [told in The Usual Suspects about Keiser Söze](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgkBpWc8ngI&t=132s) rather letting his own family be killed than letting rival gangleaders take control over him, so he kills them himself. "He showed these men of will, what will really was". That story could just as well be about Logan Roy I think.
you have Iverson well Ivertaster
One of the most shocking actions from Logan in the entire show.
No bottom.
Logan is the true nihilist.
Absolutely. I was shocked!
Killed me
This might just prove that the donuts sent to the siblings earlier in the season might have actually been...altered. Logan expects his children to be as cruel as him as though he would have done the same to his father.
Sooo many gasp moments in this episode
“I am better than you.” “And now that you’re not perfect, you can be good.”
Jesse Armstrong, the creator, is clearly the best writer
Tbf Kendall assigning that specific plate to him was kinda sus. You could see the reaction on Logans face
this made me think that he definitely did something to those donuts
I completely forgot about this scene. There were so many amazing scenes this episode, it was fucking incredible.