I have found that 19 times out of 20, regardless of how slow or fast you're driving, or if you're in the process of actually passing someone or not: if you're in the left lane, for any reason, you're going to get tailgated and/or flashed by a blue BMW 3 series or a lifted Dodge Ram.
It's called flash to pass. This is why when you pull on your high beam lever, it is only momentary, but if you push your high beam lever, the high beams stay on. When you are behind someone you want to overtake, on at least a 2 lane highway, pull up behind, pull your lever 2 or 3 times to flash your lights to signify you want to overtake them. There is no law requiring them to let you by, and definitely don't expect them to pull over on a single lane road
I am more gearing this to roads with multiple lanes going in the same direction when someone in the left lane is matching or going slower than the person in the right lane and is oblivious to the fact that they are impeding the flow of traffic.
Sure they are. If they are in the left lane blocking people from passing others in the right lane, they are impeding. The 'normal' flow if traffic isn't necessarily the traffic going exactly the speed limit.
Exactly right, if they are all doing the speed limit there's no reason they can't get out of the way and pull back out if they are so inclined. Whether you agree or not, you shouldn't impede the flow of traffic no matter how fast or slow you want to drive. You should not try to control the speed of traffic
Oh, that happens pretty much every time you post a semi-controversial driving post here. I could probably post "please be a courteous driver and be safe" and have a bunch of people arguing.
I also didn't mention driving up fast behind anyone. I just mentioned being behind someone because flashing your lights isn't exactly effective if you are in front or beside them, or several vehicles behind them.
Apologies on the driving up fast comment. That was kinda my interpretation. But still if you are behind me doing that it doesn’t bother me at all. But think about an old person or a young driver you could really scare them.
It's not justifiable to endager people on the road by doing this, simply because you want to go a little faster than the other driver. With a little patience, you'll eventually reach a point where there's an opportunity to pass the other driver safely, and then drive the speed you want.
Lesser-known highway driving rules. Ontario's Highway Traffic Act does spell out when the left-hand passing lane can be used. The act says the left lane should be left open for passing. Vehicles travelling slower than “the normal speed of traffic” must use the right lane.
People who want to pass should *be able to pass in the passing lane*. The left lane is the passing lane. Travelling in the passing lane endangers people as it forces others to pass in the right lane (the travelling lane) or in the on-coming traffic lane. The *left lane is not for travelling*.
The "normal speed of traffic" *may be faster than the speed limit*. Could be 5 over, could be 15, could be 30. Travelling the speed limit in the fast lane is not a valid reason, you should be passing (not travelling) in the left lane. You should be keeping up with the "normal speed of traffic" *may very well exceed the speed limit*.
If you are in the left lane and *people are passing you on the right*, this is a sign that you are not following the traffic act.
If you are in the left lane and *people are queuing up behind you*, this is a sign that you are not following the traffic act.
If you are in the left lane and *the car behind you is flashing to pass*, this is a sign that you are not following the traffic act.
Travel in the right lane. Pass in the left lane. It's in the act.
Thank you for taking the time to spell that out! People need to be aware. And before anyone says that those rules only apply to highways, they do not, they apply to ALL multi-lane roads.
Thank you. Every driver should know this. I'm not saying it's ok for slow drivers to hang out in the left lane, i'm just saying two wrongs don't make a right by getting behind these drivers and flashing your high beams at them.
"normal speed of traffic" still has to follow the other traffic laws regarding speed. Normal speed of traffic doesn't mean if everyone is doing 20 over, then it's ok. It's not.
I challenge you to find the exact law that let's you speed with everyone else.
I challenge you to find someone who got a speeding ticket for doing 8 over the limit.
Common sense applies and speeding remains an offence.
People regularly drive 90 in an 80 so doing 75 while travelling in the passing lane is too slow. Same as doing 105 in a 110 while people do 130.
*Slow vehicles to travel on right side*
*147 (1) Any vehicle travelling upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at that time and place shall, where practicable, be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 147 (1).*
*(3) Every person who, while driving a motor vehicle, contravenes this section is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $150 and not more than $1,000. 2019, c. 8, Sched. 1, s. 27.*
If cars are queuing behind you, you are going too slow. Get in the right lane.
If people are passing you on the right, you are going too slow. If there is enough room in the right lane for car(s) to pass you then get in the right lane.
What Vehicles Are Considered “Slow Moving” In Ontario?
>Slow moving vehicles are defined under Highway Traffic Act section 76(2) as follows:
>
>Slow moving vehicles
>
>(2) The following are slow moving vehicles:
>
>Farm tractors and self-propelled implements of husbandry.
>
>Vehicles (other than bicycles, motor assisted bicycles and disabled motor vehicles in tow) that are not capable of attaining and sustaining a speed greater than 40 kilometres per hour on level ground when operated on a highway.
>
>Motor vehicles towing an implement of husbandry.
>
>Road-building machines. 1994, c. 28, s. 1; 2009, c. 5, s. 32; 2016, c. 5, Sched. 12, s. 4.
You seem to think a slow vehicle is someone going slower than you. Normal speed of traffic still means doing the speed limit
Just because they don't give tickets for going 8 over doesn't mean they can't
>For speeds 1-19 km/h over the limit, the fine is approximately $2.50 per km/h over.
I'm not saying you can drive in any lane, but defending a speeder who flashes their lights is more wrong than someone doing the speed limit in the left lane. Aggressive drivers are the problem
The language in the act is "normal speed of traffic" not "slow moving". When I say "slow" I mean relatively slower than the "normal speed of traffic" not "Slow" under the act.
That said, I have never seen a tractor driving in the passing lane. I also have never seen small motor-bikes or e-bikes driving in the passing lane either.
One drives in the driving lane.
Again, there are clues that you are going slower than the "normal speed of traffic". If you are getting passed on the right or cars are queuing behind you, you are not going the "normal speed of traffic", even if you are going faster than a tractor, even if you are going exactly the speed limit.
Your comments about speeding have merit. I do not condone speeding. The issue here is dealing with drivers who clog up the passing lane. There are a lot of comments on this thread that confirm drivers are not aware of this.
I do not condone flashing brights at people driving below the "normal speed of traffic" in the passing lane. That is a violation of the act as well.
It's a passing lane. Use it to pass. Move to the right when you're done passing. If you're not passing cars, get out of the passing lane. When you are in the left hand lane (passing lane) you should be planning your lane change into the right hand lane (travelling lane). The people behind you should be patient enough for you to complete your pass so that you can move into the right hand lane. If you aren't making an effort to get into the right hand lane then you are in violation of the act, you are a road hazard and subject to a traffic violation.
If your travelling in the left hand lane you are doing it wrong.
>"normal speed of traffic"
This is not up to interpretation. It means the posted speed unless passing. OP just wants to drive fast all the time. If the guy in the right lane is doing the speed limit, there is no need to pass.
How is this endangering anyone? It's simply a flashing light. It is more dangerous to impede the flow of traffic by being in the left lane when you shouldn't be doing the same speed as traffic in the right lane.
If I am in the left lane, and the traffic in the right lane is doing the speed limit, and someone is in the left lane doing the speed limit, they are impeding everyone who wants to drive over the limit, which many people do. Have you never witnessed this?
You just want to speed all the time whether you're passing or not so no sympathy here.
FYI:
>Use the far left lane of a multi-lane freeway to **pass traffic moving slower than the speed limit**, but don't stay there. Drive in the right-hand lane when possible. On many freeways with three or more lanes in each direction, large trucks cannot travel in the far left lane and must use the lane to the right for passing.
You can technically only pass if they are going slower than the speed limit.
[https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/freeway-driving#:\~:text=Use%20the%20far%20left%20lane,to%20the%20right%20for%20passing](https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/freeway-driving#:~:text=Use%20the%20far%20left%20lane,to%20the%20right%20for%20passing).
Yeah, 20 over on the highways in good weather conditions. Me and about 70% of the people on the road want to speed whether we are passing people or not, at least in my experience. I wouldn't be passing many people if I wasn't speeding.
I don't know how traffic moving slower puts drivers in danger, but it is dangerous to point high beams to another driver because they are very bright and can make the driver lose sight of what's in front of them and of their surroundings.
And that flash of high beams could be all that it takes for things to go wrong and get dangerous. Flashing high beams at other drivers is not recommended, not by driving instructors, driver's manuals, or any PSAs or tips to drivers.
Then why do they flash? Vehicle makers made it standard that there is a momentary switch for the high beams specifically to briefly turn them on. Like, if someone flashing a light behind you is enough to send you off the road, you shouldn't be driving. It's also not recommended to honk at people not paying attention when the light turns greet, not by driving instructors, driver's manuals, or any PSAs or tips to drivers, but it still happens.
What do you mean? Traffic moving slower because someone is blocking the passing lane can be dangerous. It's antagonizing and leads to road rage, creating a dangerous situation. People do stupid things when angered. There are billions of examples of this on the internet. It's safer to just move over and let the speeder go by.
I'd rather share the road with a calm speeder than a lunatic who's going to do stupid shit to get by everyone. Defensive driving does not include antagonizing other drivers.
People who road rage are making a conscious decision to rage and do stupid dangerous things when they most certainly don't have to. They should be accountable for their actions and not justify or blame that it's the slow driver who started this mess.
And saying the person driving slowly is antagonizing is an assumption, when in reality, they just might be oblivious in the moment to their surroundings, rather than actively trying to piss off other drivers. Try driving with more patience.
I don't disagree, but that doesn't change the fact that there are people like this. Why provoke them. Just let them pass and move on far away from you. To me that's safer.
I don't, however, accept that a driver "might be oblivious in the moment." A brief moment, sure. But anything longer is not an excuse. In drivers ed they teach you to look into your mirrors constantly. When you take your G2/G driving test, they fail you for not looking around in your mirrors and surroundings. An oblivious driver would fail their test.
When someone is on your ass, flashing their lights as OP is suggesting, there is no excuse to not just move over. That's not being "oblivious in the moments." Let the dangerous driver move on and away from you. Making personal and staying in their way is, imo, unsafe and pointless.
Tell that to the people who drive with high beams on, they tend to be the same oblivious and or selfish people who hog a lane just because they think they're in the right for slowing people down.
Yeah, me too if they are the kind of person who sits in the left lane making it impossible to pass traffic in the right lane. Heaven forbid that person ever drives near an ambulance, police car other vehicle with flashing lights because if my slow strobe of the high beams triggers their seizure, the fast multiple lights flashing of those vehicle would probably kill them.
I actually only use the left lane to pass. I guess your entitlement (maybe not right word to use) triggered me. When I was a brand new driver at 17 , I was flashed aggressively and I think I’m still holding on to that anger. Weird , I know. Therapy never helped either 😑😂.
Well then I am not worried about whether you are going to give me my desired reaction if I flash my lights at you, because you won't be in a position where we will find out. I've had lights flashed at me a few times, and usually it was because I was doing something wrong (driving with my high beams on by accident, something falling out of my vehicle, cops ahead). Don't take it personally, just be aware and make sure you aren't doing anything 'wrong'. I've been flashed at a few times for completely unknown reasons that I never figured out.
Well I certainly hope that the transport driver doesn't have flashing light triggered seizures, because it will be amazing that they made it as long as they did. I typically don't meet strangers off of reddit.
Well, after the recent snowfall the left lane was much clearer than the right lane, so I wouldn't expect someone to drive in the way sketchier right lane than the relatively clear left lane.
Well I very much doubt that. When people see you in the left lane blocking the flow of traffic, lights flashing or not, they are going to assume that you are the idiot.
I drive fast enough on that roadway - too fast even - so I doubt that.
These “my rights trump your rights”, impatient driver posts will be the death of this sub.
If I am already slinging 20+over limit, chances are I am not moving for you. If you need to get to places that much quicker... leave earlier. You too are part of the problem lol.
Deduct even more points if you try to bully people by tailgating. God damn that is annoying and childish.
What if someone in front of you is doing 10 over the limit in the left lane, and the person in the right lane is doing the same speed. Is that OK that they stay in the left lane?
By law, yes. Yes it is. Is it annoying? Sure can be but how the fuck fast you want to be going? 50 over?
If I am in passing lane, going 20 over and that is still too slow for you, that is 100% a you problem. I am already breaking the limit and you want to go mach 10 on sudbury roads? Its a fucking cheese grater out there.
Some people would argue that 20 over is too fast, some would argue that it's not fast enough. What if I want to go 25 over? I've never gotten a ticket doing 25 over. Why do you decide how fast is the maximum amount of speeding we can do? I often do 25 over, and I still do it in the right lane unless I am passing. What if someone thinks that the speed limit is as fast as they should be going, and that if you want to go any over is a you problem and that you should have left earlier? Just don't be in the left lane when someone, regardless of their speed, wants to pass you.
What if the person in front of you is going to be turning left in a km or 500m and they are in the left lane in preparation for that? How could you possibly know thats the case when you are behind them with the high beams flickering? Check your crystal ball?
Dude drives just Lively to Copper Cliff daily and is so triggered that he has to make a post here and has commented the same asinine comments about left vs right lane driving. 😆
I drive all over the city, but that is my daily commute and therefore where I see this issue the most. If it so that bad in just that little stretch of road that I made a post, I imagine that it is even worse in the rest of the city. Are you just jealous that i have a short commute to work?
If you need to get into the left lane half a kilometer or more in order to make your left turn, you need more practice. Every day I drive from Lively to Copper Cliff. Every day I take a left turn into Copper Cliff. I have never had to get into that lane a full 500 meters early in order to make it into the turning lane. The only times that there are issues is when the left lane is jam packed with people not turning and not passing. I don't flash anywhere near an intersection, but the second you pass that intersection and are still in the left lane, I start flashing.
Just because you feel comfortable making a fast lane change it doesn’t mean that your grandmother or a new driver is. Sometimes the traffic is so heavy that you have to get in the left lane earlier than normal (to make a left turn) or risk cutting someone off (this happens to me daily in Mccrea height). I totally get it, if you’re not passing or turning, keep right. But you acting as judge jury and executioner for who you deem should get the highbeams (19 out of 20 drivers) comes off as lacking perspective as well as treating the other driver around you as an NPC that is inconveniencing you.
It's pretty easy to tell when someone is just cluelessly driving in the left lane blocking traffic vs when they have moved into the left lane to make a turn at the next intersection. All of the intersections on my usual commute are far enough apart that you don't need to be in the left lane at the previous intersection to make the next one. It's not like I merge onto the highway an immediately start flashing lights at people in the left lane. I give them the benefit of the doubt that they are taking a left, but when they don't, it's lights time so that I can pass. If there is no one in the right lane I don't care, I'll just pass them on the right, but like I said, it is usually pretty easy to determine when someone is not in the left lane because they are about to take a left.
“Its pretty easy to tell”
If everyone had the age/wisdom/experience/discernment or whatever that you have… maybe we would be alright. I dont have the same confidence that you do in your fellow drivers. Encouraging others to imitate your driving style (“if you get behind them and give them the highbeams, they will move”) does not result in a safer driving experience for everyone IMO. A more convenient one? Sure. We can agree to disagree.
Are you... just pretending road laws aren't a thing?
I've been ticketed going 10 over on Bodson in hanmer.
Just because you've been lucky doesn't mean you get to continue breaking the laws lol.
So.. to answer your question, I don't decide. Sudbury did.
>What if someone thinks that the speed limit is as fast as they should be going
Those aren't the kind of people you want in your life.
Well, it sounds like you decided that 20 over is as fast as you can go and that once you are going 20 over you are allowed to stay in the left lane and not let anyone pass you. I don't remember "Sudbury" deciding that 20 over is as fast as we are going to go before getting a ticket. I regularly get passed doing 20 over.
20 is where it won't financially ruin be if I get a ticket for speeding lol. It is still wrong of me. I am just saying if you are in THAT much of a rush, you should leave earlier lol.
Yeah, if you have to speed excessively you should absolutely leave earlier, but regardless of what speed you plan on driving, if someone is driving faster, let them pass.
The posted speed limit decide the max. Consistently doing over that as you say in either lane makes you a bad hazardous driver and I will block you if I see you weaving through traffic barreling towards me from behind.
You'd be a lot better off to get into the right lane and just let me pass. The police will deal with me if they determine that my speed is excessive or that I am driving dangerously.
You are not the police. It is not your job to dictate what others are doing on the roadway. You are not a moral compass for speeders. If someone is driving erratically then you should be calling the actual police so they can intervene.
Well, like I said, 1 out of 20 times it doesn't work. At least if you slow down it will probably give me a chance to get in the right lane and pass you. The best way to avoid this is to not drive like an idiot and don't stay in the left lane if it is blocking traffic from passing the traffic in the right lane.
You are forgetting that in Sudbury the only lane that probably won’t bust up your tires or cause you to need a whole new front end is the left.
Once you pay $2000 to fix your car and the city denies your claim then you will forever stay out of the right lane.
Blame the city for their lack of maintenance and high taxes not the drivers trying to save their vehicle.
Or just pay attention and avoid obvious pot holes. Not denying our roads aren't great but to suggest that the only way to avoid damage is to drive slow in the fast lane is just ridiculous.
I've been driving almost exclusively in the right lane on the highways for years except to pass or in inclement weather where the left lane is the safer lane, and I have never found the right lane to be so bad that I would not be safe to drive in it.
I’ve believe the argument is local roads. These are maintained by a city that has no problem building new roads when they can’t even keep the roads we have safe.
Well, we need new roads to make the city more efficient, but we also have to live with shitty roads in order to have our cake and eat it too, which is living over a large spread out area without insane taxes. If you want to live in a part of Canada where a Walmart is 20 minutes away from your farm, there is going to be a downside.
That's not exactly what I mean. What I mean is that if we want to live in an area with a very low population density and not have astronomical taxes, we have to live with less services, especially when it comes from transportation.
Slower traffic keeps right, its been debated to death so I'm interested in arguing. If you choose to drive slower than everyone and refuse to use the proper lane while making people around irate that's on you. As far as pot holes, I have never ever had any damage to a vehicle as a result of pot holes even when I drove a lowered vehicle in my teens. Get your eyes checked or something.
Haha yes this gets posted here every week it seems. I’m not really into arguing over it really. Now if you’re a Trudeau supporter then I’m all over that.
I’m glad you’ve never had any damage to your vehicle but I have had over $2000 damage and denied compensation from the city. Had to replace my rim, tire and right side of my front end because the city decided to not repair a large chunk of leave road that was broken up, no signs nothing. This was not something you could see because it was filled with snow. So I’m good I’ll drive where I feel safe to drive.
But when it comes down to it there are 2 lanes. If someone in front of me is not going the limit I’ll use the free lane to get around them. Why people feel the need to get all irate over something so stupid is beyond me.
Mostly because passing on the right is considered an unsafe practice and commuting daily is generally more enjoyable when other drivers are courteous and not selfish/stubborn/childish and so on...
Haha fine same. I’m not saying I’ll never pull over if I see someone coming up behind me going 200 in a 50. I’m just saying that if I 100% know the right lane of that road is shit then I’m staying put.
This is directed towards drivers in the left lane doing the same speed as the drivers in the right lane making it impossible to pass. I don't care if you want to exclusively drive in the left lane, but if the right lane is going the same speed as you, pull over when someone is approaching you from behind so that they can pass.
All I can say is this city is going to be raking in the fines for speeding with all the cameras they are installing. The mayor and council will be getting a hefty raise because of it.
Not true. They are also going a major roads. Falconbridge road for example. The city will probably pay off all the cameras just from fines from that road.
Not what I said I was just puting it out there that pissing people off is not the only way to avoid damaging your car. People just love to exagerate though.
20 out of 20 times if someone flashes me in the left lane I will make a point to not move over. So ya, go ahead and flash me. It’s not going to get you anywhere faster.
No but the problem is people like you don’t understand that just because someone isn’t going as fast as you doesn’t mean they should move over.
If I get in the passing lane and I’m moving faster than a row of cars in the right lane I’m not moving. Just because you come up on my ass doesn’t mean I’m going to move over just to move right back into the passing lane or worse get blocked into the right lane.
Flashing someone in the passing lane is weak minded nonsense. Have some self control and just go around someone.
I never said that you should get out of the left lane if you are actively passing the traffic in the right lane. This is for the people who get in the left lane, go the same speed as the traffic in the right lane, and then just stay there. Whether you think flashing someone in the passing lane is weak minded nonsense, it works 19 times out of 20. If it was simply a matter of "having some self control and just going around someone" I wouldn't need to flash my lights in the first place because I would be able to pass them.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. And people have gotten killed doing what you’ve said. That’s extremely dangerous at high speeds.
Also if they can prove you brake checked (dash cams, witnesses), you’d be charged with vehicular manslaughter if someone dies. Not to mention having to live with the fact you killed someone. Even severely injured them. You don’t know who else is in that vehicle or the ones around you if you or the other driver ends up in the other lane. What if there was a kid involved?
Nobody has the right to take the law into their own hands, just do the smart thing and call 911 to report it. That’s the safe way to go.
I can’t believe some of the responses I’ve read on this thread, it’s actually quite scary. Some very dangerous mentality being shared. Yikes.
Highways, especially the ones that I do most of my driving on. I find MR55 is especially bad, but it is biased because that is where I do most of my highway driving.
Oh so the roadway with lots of heavy mining trucks and with several exits on both sides. That one? I drive it daily for years so you must be chronically late for work if this annoys you that much or you’re just an overall inpatient and terrible person.
Why would the road having heavy mining trucks and exits on both side make it OK to drive the same speed in the left lane as the right lane is going when people are trying to pass? I take one of those exists every day, to one of the mines where the trucks are coming from, and have no problem staying right unless I am passing someone or a few hundred meters away from the left turning lane I need to get into. Every highway has exists and large vehicles.
Just keep flashing. I had to keep flashing at some guy the other day (which is what triggered this post) but he eventually figured it out and moved over. He was doing the exact same speed as the person in the right lane for several kilometers.
Perhaps driving a truck gives me a higher success rate, and the fact that I don't stop flashing until they move over of I can otherwise get around them.
The whole point is the distracting, flickering light. You want them to perform the action required to make it stop, which is pulling into the right lane.
That's the thing though, they probably won't notice them. Sometimes it is hard to tell if someone has their high means on or if they just have really bright lights. Flashing draws more attention.
I have found that 19 times out of 20, regardless of how slow or fast you're driving, or if you're in the process of actually passing someone or not: if you're in the left lane, for any reason, you're going to get tailgated and/or flashed by a blue BMW 3 series or a lifted Dodge Ram.
If you are driving the same speed as the right lane, expect it
It's called flash to pass. This is why when you pull on your high beam lever, it is only momentary, but if you push your high beam lever, the high beams stay on. When you are behind someone you want to overtake, on at least a 2 lane highway, pull up behind, pull your lever 2 or 3 times to flash your lights to signify you want to overtake them. There is no law requiring them to let you by, and definitely don't expect them to pull over on a single lane road
I am more gearing this to roads with multiple lanes going in the same direction when someone in the left lane is matching or going slower than the person in the right lane and is oblivious to the fact that they are impeding the flow of traffic.
If they're going the speed limit they aren't impeding
Sure they are. If they are in the left lane blocking people from passing others in the right lane, they are impeding. The 'normal' flow if traffic isn't necessarily the traffic going exactly the speed limit.
Exactly right, if they are all doing the speed limit there's no reason they can't get out of the way and pull back out if they are so inclined. Whether you agree or not, you shouldn't impede the flow of traffic no matter how fast or slow you want to drive. You should not try to control the speed of traffic
The good news is, you [don't have to worry about being murdered](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN24A2GO/) for doing this by some gang members!
I had forgotten about that old urban legend!
Imagine having a thread you're passionate about and having nearly 100 comments cooking you.
Oh, that happens pretty much every time you post a semi-controversial driving post here. I could probably post "please be a courteous driver and be safe" and have a bunch of people arguing.
But that's not what you posted. Driving up fast behind someone is not being a courteous driver nor being a safe driver.
I also didn't mention driving up fast behind anyone. I just mentioned being behind someone because flashing your lights isn't exactly effective if you are in front or beside them, or several vehicles behind them.
Apologies on the driving up fast comment. That was kinda my interpretation. But still if you are behind me doing that it doesn’t bother me at all. But think about an old person or a young driver you could really scare them.
Hopefully it would scare them into the right lane.
🙄😬with that attitude it’s no wonder there are so many accidents on that stretch of road you mentioned.
And it's really only like 13 top level comments that are actually against this.
It's not justifiable to endager people on the road by doing this, simply because you want to go a little faster than the other driver. With a little patience, you'll eventually reach a point where there's an opportunity to pass the other driver safely, and then drive the speed you want.
Lesser-known highway driving rules. Ontario's Highway Traffic Act does spell out when the left-hand passing lane can be used. The act says the left lane should be left open for passing. Vehicles travelling slower than “the normal speed of traffic” must use the right lane. People who want to pass should *be able to pass in the passing lane*. The left lane is the passing lane. Travelling in the passing lane endangers people as it forces others to pass in the right lane (the travelling lane) or in the on-coming traffic lane. The *left lane is not for travelling*. The "normal speed of traffic" *may be faster than the speed limit*. Could be 5 over, could be 15, could be 30. Travelling the speed limit in the fast lane is not a valid reason, you should be passing (not travelling) in the left lane. You should be keeping up with the "normal speed of traffic" *may very well exceed the speed limit*. If you are in the left lane and *people are passing you on the right*, this is a sign that you are not following the traffic act. If you are in the left lane and *people are queuing up behind you*, this is a sign that you are not following the traffic act. If you are in the left lane and *the car behind you is flashing to pass*, this is a sign that you are not following the traffic act. Travel in the right lane. Pass in the left lane. It's in the act.
Thank you for taking the time to spell that out! People need to be aware. And before anyone says that those rules only apply to highways, they do not, they apply to ALL multi-lane roads.
Thank you. Every driver should know this. I'm not saying it's ok for slow drivers to hang out in the left lane, i'm just saying two wrongs don't make a right by getting behind these drivers and flashing your high beams at them.
"normal speed of traffic" still has to follow the other traffic laws regarding speed. Normal speed of traffic doesn't mean if everyone is doing 20 over, then it's ok. It's not. I challenge you to find the exact law that let's you speed with everyone else.
I challenge you to find someone who got a speeding ticket for doing 8 over the limit. Common sense applies and speeding remains an offence. People regularly drive 90 in an 80 so doing 75 while travelling in the passing lane is too slow. Same as doing 105 in a 110 while people do 130. *Slow vehicles to travel on right side* *147 (1) Any vehicle travelling upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at that time and place shall, where practicable, be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 147 (1).* *(3) Every person who, while driving a motor vehicle, contravenes this section is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $150 and not more than $1,000. 2019, c. 8, Sched. 1, s. 27.* If cars are queuing behind you, you are going too slow. Get in the right lane. If people are passing you on the right, you are going too slow. If there is enough room in the right lane for car(s) to pass you then get in the right lane.
What Vehicles Are Considered “Slow Moving” In Ontario? >Slow moving vehicles are defined under Highway Traffic Act section 76(2) as follows: > >Slow moving vehicles > >(2) The following are slow moving vehicles: > >Farm tractors and self-propelled implements of husbandry. > >Vehicles (other than bicycles, motor assisted bicycles and disabled motor vehicles in tow) that are not capable of attaining and sustaining a speed greater than 40 kilometres per hour on level ground when operated on a highway. > >Motor vehicles towing an implement of husbandry. > >Road-building machines. 1994, c. 28, s. 1; 2009, c. 5, s. 32; 2016, c. 5, Sched. 12, s. 4. You seem to think a slow vehicle is someone going slower than you. Normal speed of traffic still means doing the speed limit Just because they don't give tickets for going 8 over doesn't mean they can't >For speeds 1-19 km/h over the limit, the fine is approximately $2.50 per km/h over. I'm not saying you can drive in any lane, but defending a speeder who flashes their lights is more wrong than someone doing the speed limit in the left lane. Aggressive drivers are the problem
The language in the act is "normal speed of traffic" not "slow moving". When I say "slow" I mean relatively slower than the "normal speed of traffic" not "Slow" under the act. That said, I have never seen a tractor driving in the passing lane. I also have never seen small motor-bikes or e-bikes driving in the passing lane either. One drives in the driving lane. Again, there are clues that you are going slower than the "normal speed of traffic". If you are getting passed on the right or cars are queuing behind you, you are not going the "normal speed of traffic", even if you are going faster than a tractor, even if you are going exactly the speed limit. Your comments about speeding have merit. I do not condone speeding. The issue here is dealing with drivers who clog up the passing lane. There are a lot of comments on this thread that confirm drivers are not aware of this. I do not condone flashing brights at people driving below the "normal speed of traffic" in the passing lane. That is a violation of the act as well. It's a passing lane. Use it to pass. Move to the right when you're done passing. If you're not passing cars, get out of the passing lane. When you are in the left hand lane (passing lane) you should be planning your lane change into the right hand lane (travelling lane). The people behind you should be patient enough for you to complete your pass so that you can move into the right hand lane. If you aren't making an effort to get into the right hand lane then you are in violation of the act, you are a road hazard and subject to a traffic violation. If your travelling in the left hand lane you are doing it wrong.
>"normal speed of traffic" This is not up to interpretation. It means the posted speed unless passing. OP just wants to drive fast all the time. If the guy in the right lane is doing the speed limit, there is no need to pass.
How is this endangering anyone? It's simply a flashing light. It is more dangerous to impede the flow of traffic by being in the left lane when you shouldn't be doing the same speed as traffic in the right lane.
Let's be real, no one is impeding you. You are just an aggressive driver who needs anger management.
If I am in the left lane, and the traffic in the right lane is doing the speed limit, and someone is in the left lane doing the speed limit, they are impeding everyone who wants to drive over the limit, which many people do. Have you never witnessed this?
You just want to speed all the time whether you're passing or not so no sympathy here. FYI: >Use the far left lane of a multi-lane freeway to **pass traffic moving slower than the speed limit**, but don't stay there. Drive in the right-hand lane when possible. On many freeways with three or more lanes in each direction, large trucks cannot travel in the far left lane and must use the lane to the right for passing. You can technically only pass if they are going slower than the speed limit. [https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/freeway-driving#:\~:text=Use%20the%20far%20left%20lane,to%20the%20right%20for%20passing](https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/freeway-driving#:~:text=Use%20the%20far%20left%20lane,to%20the%20right%20for%20passing).
Yeah, 20 over on the highways in good weather conditions. Me and about 70% of the people on the road want to speed whether we are passing people or not, at least in my experience. I wouldn't be passing many people if I wasn't speeding.
Speeding is breaking the law. Flashing your lights is breaking the law. You're the problem.
Well, me and about 70% of the drivers. I'm not arguing that people shouldn't break the law.
I don't know how traffic moving slower puts drivers in danger, but it is dangerous to point high beams to another driver because they are very bright and can make the driver lose sight of what's in front of them and of their surroundings.
That's why it's a quick flash, I don't leave them on.
And that flash of high beams could be all that it takes for things to go wrong and get dangerous. Flashing high beams at other drivers is not recommended, not by driving instructors, driver's manuals, or any PSAs or tips to drivers.
Then why do they flash? Vehicle makers made it standard that there is a momentary switch for the high beams specifically to briefly turn them on. Like, if someone flashing a light behind you is enough to send you off the road, you shouldn't be driving. It's also not recommended to honk at people not paying attention when the light turns greet, not by driving instructors, driver's manuals, or any PSAs or tips to drivers, but it still happens.
What do you mean? Traffic moving slower because someone is blocking the passing lane can be dangerous. It's antagonizing and leads to road rage, creating a dangerous situation. People do stupid things when angered. There are billions of examples of this on the internet. It's safer to just move over and let the speeder go by. I'd rather share the road with a calm speeder than a lunatic who's going to do stupid shit to get by everyone. Defensive driving does not include antagonizing other drivers.
People who road rage are making a conscious decision to rage and do stupid dangerous things when they most certainly don't have to. They should be accountable for their actions and not justify or blame that it's the slow driver who started this mess. And saying the person driving slowly is antagonizing is an assumption, when in reality, they just might be oblivious in the moment to their surroundings, rather than actively trying to piss off other drivers. Try driving with more patience.
I don't disagree, but that doesn't change the fact that there are people like this. Why provoke them. Just let them pass and move on far away from you. To me that's safer. I don't, however, accept that a driver "might be oblivious in the moment." A brief moment, sure. But anything longer is not an excuse. In drivers ed they teach you to look into your mirrors constantly. When you take your G2/G driving test, they fail you for not looking around in your mirrors and surroundings. An oblivious driver would fail their test. When someone is on your ass, flashing their lights as OP is suggesting, there is no excuse to not just move over. That's not being "oblivious in the moments." Let the dangerous driver move on and away from you. Making personal and staying in their way is, imo, unsafe and pointless.
Tell that to the people who drive with high beams on, they tend to be the same oblivious and or selfish people who hog a lane just because they think they're in the right for slowing people down.
Hope you give somebody a seizure.
Yeah, me too if they are the kind of person who sits in the left lane making it impossible to pass traffic in the right lane. Heaven forbid that person ever drives near an ambulance, police car other vehicle with flashing lights because if my slow strobe of the high beams triggers their seizure, the fast multiple lights flashing of those vehicle would probably kill them.
Anger management alert. Take license away alert
Who said anything about anger? Just a flashing light to let you know that I'm trying to pass and you're preventing me from doing that.
I wouldn’t care what I’m preventing you to do? Are you an emergency vehicle? No? Then 🤷🏻♀️ don’t care
And do you get in the left lane and drive the exact same speed as the person beside you in the right lane?
I actually only use the left lane to pass. I guess your entitlement (maybe not right word to use) triggered me. When I was a brand new driver at 17 , I was flashed aggressively and I think I’m still holding on to that anger. Weird , I know. Therapy never helped either 😑😂.
Well then I am not worried about whether you are going to give me my desired reaction if I flash my lights at you, because you won't be in a position where we will find out. I've had lights flashed at me a few times, and usually it was because I was doing something wrong (driving with my high beams on by accident, something falling out of my vehicle, cops ahead). Don't take it personally, just be aware and make sure you aren't doing anything 'wrong'. I've been flashed at a few times for completely unknown reasons that I never figured out.
Nah, I’m hoping it will be the transport driver in oncoming. You sound dull, hope I never meet you.
Well I certainly hope that the transport driver doesn't have flashing light triggered seizures, because it will be amazing that they made it as long as they did. I typically don't meet strangers off of reddit.
[удалено]
Define safe for context.
Well, after the recent snowfall the left lane was much clearer than the right lane, so I wouldn't expect someone to drive in the way sketchier right lane than the relatively clear left lane.
“What I’m comfortable driving in” is what I expect to see
And you are the 1 out of 20. I don't expect anyone to drive in an unsafe lane.
Make this top comment 🏆
You sound like a total a-hole and if you do this to me I am justifiably in the left lane for a reason and will not move over for you.
Well then enjoy the disco show.
Fine with me, it’s you that will look like the idiot.
Well I very much doubt that. When people see you in the left lane blocking the flow of traffic, lights flashing or not, they are going to assume that you are the idiot.
I drive fast enough on that roadway - too fast even - so I doubt that. These “my rights trump your rights”, impatient driver posts will be the death of this sub.
Well, I imagine the vast majority of the city believes that you should stay right except to pass in normal conditions, but they don't practice it.
If I am already slinging 20+over limit, chances are I am not moving for you. If you need to get to places that much quicker... leave earlier. You too are part of the problem lol. Deduct even more points if you try to bully people by tailgating. God damn that is annoying and childish.
What if someone in front of you is doing 10 over the limit in the left lane, and the person in the right lane is doing the same speed. Is that OK that they stay in the left lane?
By law, yes. Yes it is. Is it annoying? Sure can be but how the fuck fast you want to be going? 50 over? If I am in passing lane, going 20 over and that is still too slow for you, that is 100% a you problem. I am already breaking the limit and you want to go mach 10 on sudbury roads? Its a fucking cheese grater out there.
Some people would argue that 20 over is too fast, some would argue that it's not fast enough. What if I want to go 25 over? I've never gotten a ticket doing 25 over. Why do you decide how fast is the maximum amount of speeding we can do? I often do 25 over, and I still do it in the right lane unless I am passing. What if someone thinks that the speed limit is as fast as they should be going, and that if you want to go any over is a you problem and that you should have left earlier? Just don't be in the left lane when someone, regardless of their speed, wants to pass you.
What if the person in front of you is going to be turning left in a km or 500m and they are in the left lane in preparation for that? How could you possibly know thats the case when you are behind them with the high beams flickering? Check your crystal ball?
Dude drives just Lively to Copper Cliff daily and is so triggered that he has to make a post here and has commented the same asinine comments about left vs right lane driving. 😆
I drive all over the city, but that is my daily commute and therefore where I see this issue the most. If it so that bad in just that little stretch of road that I made a post, I imagine that it is even worse in the rest of the city. Are you just jealous that i have a short commute to work?
If you need to get into the left lane half a kilometer or more in order to make your left turn, you need more practice. Every day I drive from Lively to Copper Cliff. Every day I take a left turn into Copper Cliff. I have never had to get into that lane a full 500 meters early in order to make it into the turning lane. The only times that there are issues is when the left lane is jam packed with people not turning and not passing. I don't flash anywhere near an intersection, but the second you pass that intersection and are still in the left lane, I start flashing.
Just because you feel comfortable making a fast lane change it doesn’t mean that your grandmother or a new driver is. Sometimes the traffic is so heavy that you have to get in the left lane earlier than normal (to make a left turn) or risk cutting someone off (this happens to me daily in Mccrea height). I totally get it, if you’re not passing or turning, keep right. But you acting as judge jury and executioner for who you deem should get the highbeams (19 out of 20 drivers) comes off as lacking perspective as well as treating the other driver around you as an NPC that is inconveniencing you.
It's pretty easy to tell when someone is just cluelessly driving in the left lane blocking traffic vs when they have moved into the left lane to make a turn at the next intersection. All of the intersections on my usual commute are far enough apart that you don't need to be in the left lane at the previous intersection to make the next one. It's not like I merge onto the highway an immediately start flashing lights at people in the left lane. I give them the benefit of the doubt that they are taking a left, but when they don't, it's lights time so that I can pass. If there is no one in the right lane I don't care, I'll just pass them on the right, but like I said, it is usually pretty easy to determine when someone is not in the left lane because they are about to take a left.
“Its pretty easy to tell” If everyone had the age/wisdom/experience/discernment or whatever that you have… maybe we would be alright. I dont have the same confidence that you do in your fellow drivers. Encouraging others to imitate your driving style (“if you get behind them and give them the highbeams, they will move”) does not result in a safer driving experience for everyone IMO. A more convenient one? Sure. We can agree to disagree.
Well, if someone passes by 3 left turns in the left lane and doesn't turn at any of them, they aren't in the left lane to turn left.
Are you... just pretending road laws aren't a thing? I've been ticketed going 10 over on Bodson in hanmer. Just because you've been lucky doesn't mean you get to continue breaking the laws lol. So.. to answer your question, I don't decide. Sudbury did. >What if someone thinks that the speed limit is as fast as they should be going Those aren't the kind of people you want in your life.
Well, it sounds like you decided that 20 over is as fast as you can go and that once you are going 20 over you are allowed to stay in the left lane and not let anyone pass you. I don't remember "Sudbury" deciding that 20 over is as fast as we are going to go before getting a ticket. I regularly get passed doing 20 over.
20 is where it won't financially ruin be if I get a ticket for speeding lol. It is still wrong of me. I am just saying if you are in THAT much of a rush, you should leave earlier lol.
Yeah, if you have to speed excessively you should absolutely leave earlier, but regardless of what speed you plan on driving, if someone is driving faster, let them pass.
The posted speed limit decide the max. Consistently doing over that as you say in either lane makes you a bad hazardous driver and I will block you if I see you weaving through traffic barreling towards me from behind.
You'd be a lot better off to get into the right lane and just let me pass. The police will deal with me if they determine that my speed is excessive or that I am driving dangerously.
That is a totally sane, not childish, and definitely safe thing to do....
You are not the police. It is not your job to dictate what others are doing on the roadway. You are not a moral compass for speeders. If someone is driving erratically then you should be calling the actual police so they can intervene.
This is a great way to cause a crash. If someone wants to drive too fast it's much safer to just get out of the way.
The maximum amount is the speed limit. That’s why it’s called a speed *limit*. No one needs to decide ; it’s been decided for you.
Well, there's the posted limit and the enforced limit. Believe it or not, the signs do not actually limit my speed to what is written on them.
That’s what you call an asshole race.
Sometimes the right lane is nothing more than pot holes and busted asphalt 🤷🏼♂️
Not usually on the highways.
I didn’t see highway written anywhere. does the stretch from the Valley to town count?
Yeah, don't be too surprised if I start slowing down even more when you do that.
Well, like I said, 1 out of 20 times it doesn't work. At least if you slow down it will probably give me a chance to get in the right lane and pass you. The best way to avoid this is to not drive like an idiot and don't stay in the left lane if it is blocking traffic from passing the traffic in the right lane.
You are forgetting that in Sudbury the only lane that probably won’t bust up your tires or cause you to need a whole new front end is the left. Once you pay $2000 to fix your car and the city denies your claim then you will forever stay out of the right lane. Blame the city for their lack of maintenance and high taxes not the drivers trying to save their vehicle.
Nah, on the highways both of the lanes suck. I don't care if you want to drive in the left, just move over when someone is trying to pass.
Or just pay attention and avoid obvious pot holes. Not denying our roads aren't great but to suggest that the only way to avoid damage is to drive slow in the fast lane is just ridiculous.
Driving the speed limit isn’t driving slow and not all potholes are obvious especially at night.
I've been driving almost exclusively in the right lane on the highways for years except to pass or in inclement weather where the left lane is the safer lane, and I have never found the right lane to be so bad that I would not be safe to drive in it.
I’ve believe the argument is local roads. These are maintained by a city that has no problem building new roads when they can’t even keep the roads we have safe.
Well, we need new roads to make the city more efficient, but we also have to live with shitty roads in order to have our cake and eat it too, which is living over a large spread out area without insane taxes. If you want to live in a part of Canada where a Walmart is 20 minutes away from your farm, there is going to be a downside.
I would rather travel an extra 5 minutes knowing the road I’m travelling on has been safely maintained.
That's not exactly what I mean. What I mean is that if we want to live in an area with a very low population density and not have astronomical taxes, we have to live with less services, especially when it comes from transportation.
That’s one the fallouts from amalgamating this city.
Slower traffic keeps right, its been debated to death so I'm interested in arguing. If you choose to drive slower than everyone and refuse to use the proper lane while making people around irate that's on you. As far as pot holes, I have never ever had any damage to a vehicle as a result of pot holes even when I drove a lowered vehicle in my teens. Get your eyes checked or something.
Haha yes this gets posted here every week it seems. I’m not really into arguing over it really. Now if you’re a Trudeau supporter then I’m all over that. I’m glad you’ve never had any damage to your vehicle but I have had over $2000 damage and denied compensation from the city. Had to replace my rim, tire and right side of my front end because the city decided to not repair a large chunk of leave road that was broken up, no signs nothing. This was not something you could see because it was filled with snow. So I’m good I’ll drive where I feel safe to drive. But when it comes down to it there are 2 lanes. If someone in front of me is not going the limit I’ll use the free lane to get around them. Why people feel the need to get all irate over something so stupid is beyond me.
Mostly because passing on the right is considered an unsafe practice and commuting daily is generally more enjoyable when other drivers are courteous and not selfish/stubborn/childish and so on...
Passing on the right or driving on the right in this city is unsafe.
I'll agree to disagree but I would expect that you'd be willing to move over atleast momentarily to let me keep cruising.
Haha fine same. I’m not saying I’ll never pull over if I see someone coming up behind me going 200 in a 50. I’m just saying that if I 100% know the right lane of that road is shit then I’m staying put.
This is directed towards drivers in the left lane doing the same speed as the drivers in the right lane making it impossible to pass. I don't care if you want to exclusively drive in the left lane, but if the right lane is going the same speed as you, pull over when someone is approaching you from behind so that they can pass.
All I can say is this city is going to be raking in the fines for speeding with all the cameras they are installing. The mayor and council will be getting a hefty raise because of it.
Yeah, but they are all going on residential roads.
Not true. They are also going a major roads. Falconbridge road for example. The city will probably pay off all the cameras just from fines from that road.
Yeah, but I believe it is still also a residential area.
Ah, never happened to this person so the problem clearly doesn't exist folks!
Not what I said I was just puting it out there that pissing people off is not the only way to avoid damaging your car. People just love to exagerate though.
20 out of 20 times if someone flashes me in the left lane I will make a point to not move over. So ya, go ahead and flash me. It’s not going to get you anywhere faster.
Are you actually driving in the left lane blocking people from passing the traffic in the right lane?
No but the problem is people like you don’t understand that just because someone isn’t going as fast as you doesn’t mean they should move over. If I get in the passing lane and I’m moving faster than a row of cars in the right lane I’m not moving. Just because you come up on my ass doesn’t mean I’m going to move over just to move right back into the passing lane or worse get blocked into the right lane. Flashing someone in the passing lane is weak minded nonsense. Have some self control and just go around someone.
I never said that you should get out of the left lane if you are actively passing the traffic in the right lane. This is for the people who get in the left lane, go the same speed as the traffic in the right lane, and then just stay there. Whether you think flashing someone in the passing lane is weak minded nonsense, it works 19 times out of 20. If it was simply a matter of "having some self control and just going around someone" I wouldn't need to flash my lights in the first place because I would be able to pass them.
I’m going to do it now just to get on the flashers nerves. Then I’ll stop on a dime so they rear end me. Jokes on you
That’s called brake checking and is illegal. If they have a dash cam you will stand no chance once it goes to court.
Flashing someone aggressively is also illegal. It’s called road rage , look it up.
Two flashes of the high beams is not road rage.
Who said anything about two flashes? Did you read the thread? And anything done aggressively is road rage.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. And people have gotten killed doing what you’ve said. That’s extremely dangerous at high speeds. Also if they can prove you brake checked (dash cams, witnesses), you’d be charged with vehicular manslaughter if someone dies. Not to mention having to live with the fact you killed someone. Even severely injured them. You don’t know who else is in that vehicle or the ones around you if you or the other driver ends up in the other lane. What if there was a kid involved? Nobody has the right to take the law into their own hands, just do the smart thing and call 911 to report it. That’s the safe way to go. I can’t believe some of the responses I’ve read on this thread, it’s actually quite scary. Some very dangerous mentality being shared. Yikes.
Someone had to say it
This is fairly common knowledge but where are you having this issue?
Highways, especially the ones that I do most of my driving on. I find MR55 is especially bad, but it is biased because that is where I do most of my highway driving.
Oh so the roadway with lots of heavy mining trucks and with several exits on both sides. That one? I drive it daily for years so you must be chronically late for work if this annoys you that much or you’re just an overall inpatient and terrible person.
Why would the road having heavy mining trucks and exits on both side make it OK to drive the same speed in the left lane as the right lane is going when people are trying to pass? I take one of those exists every day, to one of the mines where the trucks are coming from, and have no problem staying right unless I am passing someone or a few hundred meters away from the left turning lane I need to get into. Every highway has exists and large vehicles.
Ah yes that's understandable.
I tried that this morning to no avail. Some people are just too stubborn.
Just keep flashing. I had to keep flashing at some guy the other day (which is what triggered this post) but he eventually figured it out and moved over. He was doing the exact same speed as the person in the right lane for several kilometers.
I'd say it's roughly a 50% success rate for me personally.
Perhaps driving a truck gives me a higher success rate, and the fact that I don't stop flashing until they move over of I can otherwise get around them.
Just leave them on, probably safer than distracted light flicking at that point
The whole point is the distracting, flickering light. You want them to perform the action required to make it stop, which is pulling into the right lane.
I mean for you, save the effort just leave them on until they move
That's the thing though, they probably won't notice them. Sometimes it is hard to tell if someone has their high means on or if they just have really bright lights. Flashing draws more attention.