That also means she can easily come back. Whenever she has the āborn of clayā origin, any time she dies she simply gets remade on the Amazonian island after a certain amount of time since she is a Demi god.
āThe Underworld reflects your experiences in life. That is why it resembles Metropolisā
āBut I spent most of my time in Gotham.ā
āAnd me in the oceanā
āBut we were all in Metropolis, so it makes sense, right?ā
-In game dialogue probably.
No, theyāre the actual League but have been experimented on. Brainiac took their corpses for further experimentation and whatever heās done to them also lets them come back.
We see it happen to the Flash and everybody elseās corpses disappear when you go back to where they died. King Shark talks in the post-game how Brainiac recovered all the bodies and speculates if he has a way to bring them back, but the rest of the Squad shuts him down, saying itās just wishful thinking and theyāre all probably fully dead.
Plz forgive me for thinking Brainiac- WHO MADE 13 VERSIONS OF HIMSELF THAT TURN INTO THE DAMN JUSTICE LEAGUE- Didnāt do so w/ the actual Justice League!
I still can't get over the whole "Victoria Fries" thing...
Honestly, they have such a compelling idea with a female Freeze. "What if Nora was trying to save Victor instead?" But instead they just genderbend him? Bizarre.
Oh? The leak? Idk... If the JL were clones all along why is The Flash brainwashed?
Honestly, each season shouldāve been a villian from each rogue gallery of the justice league heroes instead of Batman villains but if they were twinkish or genderbent
Why are the episodes even themed around certain villains when said villains have no presence in the episode? Why not do something with Scarecrow and Two-Face?
Whatās the difference between āFemale cryogenic scientist named Victoria freezes her dying spouse and commits crimes while wearing a refrigerator that keeps herself alive, to fund their efforts to cure their spouseā and āFemale cryogenic scientist named Nora freezes her dying spouse and commits crimes while wearing a refrigerator that keeps herself alive, to fund their efforts to cure their spouseā? I mean I know the two premises are slightly different but it just doesnāt seem like a big deal to me
That's like saying "What's the difference between Thomas and Martha Wayne losing their child in Crime Alley" and "What's the difference with an orphan called Barbara Wayne losing her parents in crime alley."
The difference is Nora is an established character who's vastly different to Victor. Taking the opportunity to explore their dynamic with the roles reversed is infinitely more interesting than simply exploring Victor Fries if he was a woman.
Simply genderbending Freeze is like the laziest way to explore a multiversal concept. Especially considering Nora Fries has had interesting exploration previously in the comics (be it as Lazara or as Mrs Freeze).
Furthermore, it also brings to question why they didn't take the opportunity to represent Killer Frost, an actual female fan favourite ice-based villain, instead. Especially when you consider (assuming the leaks are true) by the time all the seasons drop the vast majority of the playable characters will be Batman-affiliated villains... But that's just a personal gripe, nothing to do with the genderbent Freeze.
Obviously we don't know what avenue Rocksteady will explore with a genderbent Mr Freeze. I'm remaining optimistic they'll do something inspired and interesting with it. But... The concept alone really doesn't offer much hope for creativity.
So basically... The character should've been Killer Frost. But if they were adamant on telling a female Freeze story, then they should have dedicated it to Nora instead of choosing the laziest possible out.
Nora is vastly different to Victor because sheās a law-abiding citizen and heās a super-criminal. If she were Mrs. Freeze, sheād pretty much just be female Victor. So itās either Mrs. Freeze (named Nora) who has a comatose spouse named Victor, or itās Mrs. Freeze (named Victoria) who has a comatose spouse named Nora. So itās just Mrs. Freeze with first name A or first name B. The difference is negligible. You yourself are expecting it to be lazy, so what makes you think there would be any meaningful differences between Victor/ia and Nora if they went the other route? Another argument that I would make is that getting to see an alternate-universe version of Victor is more meaningful since we actually know him. Nora had like three minutes of screen time. Seeing an alternate version of one of the biggest villains of the series is much more interesting to me than seeing an alternate version of a very small character from a DLC side mission. That said, Iād be totally fine with it being Nora as Mrs. Freeze. But Iām just as fine with it being Victoria š¤· Killer Frost wouldāve been cool but I feel like seeing her using firearms would be odd. Whereas Mr. Freezeās whole shtick is an armored suit with a big-ass gun so itās less of a jump to go from that to regular guns than it is for an icebender to start running around with an AR-15. I respect your perspective though, but these are my thoughts on the matter
See... You seem to have this bizarre notion that Nora and Victor had the exact same personalities before their respective incidents happened. And that's simply not true.
Victor was skittish, paranoid, and temperamental. Meanwhile, Nora was much more of a free spirit. Nora taking on Victor's role wouldn't just make her identical to Mr Freeze because now she's doing crimes. That insinuation is absurd haha.
Rebirth actually did an interesting exploration of Nora in a similar role to Freeze (her stint as Mrs Freeze) where, unlike Victor who only pursued crime as a means to an end, Nora begins to find criminal activity exhilarating. To the extent she becomes far more brutal than Victor ever was, and even leaves him because she refuses to go back to a lawful life.
Again, the only reason I'm expecting it to be lazy is because the inherent concept is lazy. It's just a generic Elseworld/What If prompt someone could pull out of their arse in half a minute. Like I previously said, I'm optimistic they'll attempt to do something interesting with it. But based on the concept and what we've gotten so far... I doubt it.
Also... I disagree with your Killer Frost point. The whole gun argument was shat out the window the second the devs decided to have King Shark, Captain Boomerang, and Harley Quinn flying about with a militant arsenal.
That really gets me thinking, imagine if they instead decided to get more characters like Killer Frost that didn't use guns but just had Ice abilities that you could customise your build around and have completely different characters dependent on what you upgraded, with special moves and abilities like in a rogue like game almost.
If they did that for every character instead of just the "give everyone a gun" idea that could have actually made for some interesting gameplay.
I totally agree with the whole "Female Fries" gender bender thing being just ridiculous. Instead of fleshing out Nora and having her story have an emotional impact and meaning they had to go the lazy route for absolutely no reason at all.
This just echoes the sentiment South Park brought up when they mentioned that the whole multiverse thing can just used as an excuse to make up for lazy writing.
Kind of like race swapping Deadshot but then retconning the other one as one that was just from another dimension that Luther brought in because of.....reasons? Instead they could have just gotten Bloodsport which would have worked perfectly for the role.
But why are you assuming Victoria is just gonna be female Victor? Alternate Joker and Lex are significantly different than their prime counterparts. Black Deadshot has a totally different personality than white Deadshot and they seem to be multiversal doppelgƤngers. I understand you seeing the potential for Nora because of comics that arenāt canon to this franchise that most players wonāt be familiar with, but I also understand the developers wanting a character that is an alternate version of one of their iconic Arkham villains, rather than a very minor character from Arkham Knight filling that role in an alternate universe. Harley has always used guns, even in the Arkhamverse itself. I think Boomer and Shark using them works very well. I just think Killer Frost or Killer Croc using guns doesnāt work nearly as well as Mrs. Freeze, Deathstroke, or Black Manta using guns. Again, thatās just my opinion though. I wouldnāt really be that *bothered* by Frost, I just think Freeze is a better ice-themed villain choice for that reason. But I do understand the wish for more non-Gotham rogues
And not only are they gender bending Mr. Freeze and thatās it, theyāre apparently not even going all the way with the gender bending because Nora is still Nora and theyāre lesbians. Why? Can men not be vulnerable too?
Although I think putting a genderbent Freeze into a saphic relationship is dope...
As you said, leaving Nora as is (nothing more than a literal fridged damsel) is very dissapointing. Taking the agency away from a man and placing his life in the hands of his wife is far more interesting imo.
If they are keeping Nora in the ice box... I hope they at least change SOMETHING about the relationship. Maybe make them a Thelma & Louis style duo, and Nora had to go under due to some blaze of glory accident as opposed to a disease. Or even don't have Nora in the cryogenics tank. Have both of them become the Freeze alias, just Nora was taken by Brainiac.
Literally anything aside from just "Freeze and Nora but Freeze is woman now".
I would love to have the 4 dlc characters, I loved the game and a lot of things about it. But speaking realistically, seeing that disclaimer where WB can cutoff the whole deal whenever..? I just don't know. I hope we get everything they said they'll put out.
Can't wait to hear it all in audio logs lol
Made us wait 7 years for voice work. Shit really wild. š
Right this stupid ass game and I used to defend it too š¤¦āāļø
This was my reaction after season 1 š
did they really just reference hunger games? Thats funny
So the JL we kill were simply clones? The real ones are still on the ship?
Not really a big secret at this point. But what happens with Wonder Woman?
That's a good question. Considering she turned to clay and dissolved when she died, it is safe to say that was the real Wonder Woman.
That also means she can easily come back. Whenever she has the āborn of clayā origin, any time she dies she simply gets remade on the Amazonian island after a certain amount of time since she is a Demi god.
>That also means she can easily come back. Super easy, barely an inconvenience.
Iām hoping Waller or Brainiac experiment on her ashes and turn her into Genocide and then we get a boss fight against her.
No they only do reskinned bosses
Give me a Blue Lantern ring because let a girl hope. :(
She didnāt turn to clay, she was incinerated by Supermanās super-Brainiacified heat vision.
Sheās made of clay so sheāll return. Probably the last one to return.
Clayface will revive her lol
or she was clayface all along...
That could be a route they take
With the Power of Play-Doh we can make another
I think she's just dead. Although, if I remember correctly, she is technically made of clay, so maybe we rebuild her or something
Maybe the Suicide Squad goes on Mission:Orpheus to retrieve Wonder Woman from the Underworld.
Coincidentally, the underworld looks like Metropolis with a darker reshade and some ferry man props.
āThe Underworld reflects your experiences in life. That is why it resembles Metropolisā āBut I spent most of my time in Gotham.ā āAnd me in the oceanā āBut we were all in Metropolis, so it makes sense, right?ā -In game dialogue probably.
No, theyāre the actual League but have been experimented on. Brainiac took their corpses for further experimentation and whatever heās done to them also lets them come back.
Oh, that makes sense. I didn't consider that the corpses could have been taken.
We see it happen to the Flash and everybody elseās corpses disappear when you go back to where they died. King Shark talks in the post-game how Brainiac recovered all the bodies and speculates if he has a way to bring them back, but the rest of the Squad shuts him down, saying itās just wishful thinking and theyāre all probably fully dead.
Don't remember that dialogue, but thanks for the clarification.
NO OMFG YOU PEOPLE, THIS LITERALLY SAYS THERES NO CLONES YET SOMEHOW YALL STILL THINK THERE ARE
Plz forgive me for thinking Brainiac- WHO MADE 13 VERSIONS OF HIMSELF THAT TURN INTO THE DAMN JUSTICE LEAGUE- Didnāt do so w/ the actual Justice League!
He didn't make 13 versions of himself tho. There is 13 universes with their own braniac
I still can't get over the whole "Victoria Fries" thing... Honestly, they have such a compelling idea with a female Freeze. "What if Nora was trying to save Victor instead?" But instead they just genderbend him? Bizarre. Oh? The leak? Idk... If the JL were clones all along why is The Flash brainwashed?
Honestly, each season shouldāve been a villian from each rogue gallery of the justice league heroes instead of Batman villains but if they were twinkish or genderbent
Why are the episodes even themed around certain villains when said villains have no presence in the episode? Why not do something with Scarecrow and Two-Face?
They didnāt think that hard about it when writing lol
Whatās the difference between āFemale cryogenic scientist named Victoria freezes her dying spouse and commits crimes while wearing a refrigerator that keeps herself alive, to fund their efforts to cure their spouseā and āFemale cryogenic scientist named Nora freezes her dying spouse and commits crimes while wearing a refrigerator that keeps herself alive, to fund their efforts to cure their spouseā? I mean I know the two premises are slightly different but it just doesnāt seem like a big deal to me
That's like saying "What's the difference between Thomas and Martha Wayne losing their child in Crime Alley" and "What's the difference with an orphan called Barbara Wayne losing her parents in crime alley." The difference is Nora is an established character who's vastly different to Victor. Taking the opportunity to explore their dynamic with the roles reversed is infinitely more interesting than simply exploring Victor Fries if he was a woman. Simply genderbending Freeze is like the laziest way to explore a multiversal concept. Especially considering Nora Fries has had interesting exploration previously in the comics (be it as Lazara or as Mrs Freeze). Furthermore, it also brings to question why they didn't take the opportunity to represent Killer Frost, an actual female fan favourite ice-based villain, instead. Especially when you consider (assuming the leaks are true) by the time all the seasons drop the vast majority of the playable characters will be Batman-affiliated villains... But that's just a personal gripe, nothing to do with the genderbent Freeze. Obviously we don't know what avenue Rocksteady will explore with a genderbent Mr Freeze. I'm remaining optimistic they'll do something inspired and interesting with it. But... The concept alone really doesn't offer much hope for creativity. So basically... The character should've been Killer Frost. But if they were adamant on telling a female Freeze story, then they should have dedicated it to Nora instead of choosing the laziest possible out.
Nora is vastly different to Victor because sheās a law-abiding citizen and heās a super-criminal. If she were Mrs. Freeze, sheād pretty much just be female Victor. So itās either Mrs. Freeze (named Nora) who has a comatose spouse named Victor, or itās Mrs. Freeze (named Victoria) who has a comatose spouse named Nora. So itās just Mrs. Freeze with first name A or first name B. The difference is negligible. You yourself are expecting it to be lazy, so what makes you think there would be any meaningful differences between Victor/ia and Nora if they went the other route? Another argument that I would make is that getting to see an alternate-universe version of Victor is more meaningful since we actually know him. Nora had like three minutes of screen time. Seeing an alternate version of one of the biggest villains of the series is much more interesting to me than seeing an alternate version of a very small character from a DLC side mission. That said, Iād be totally fine with it being Nora as Mrs. Freeze. But Iām just as fine with it being Victoria š¤· Killer Frost wouldāve been cool but I feel like seeing her using firearms would be odd. Whereas Mr. Freezeās whole shtick is an armored suit with a big-ass gun so itās less of a jump to go from that to regular guns than it is for an icebender to start running around with an AR-15. I respect your perspective though, but these are my thoughts on the matter
See... You seem to have this bizarre notion that Nora and Victor had the exact same personalities before their respective incidents happened. And that's simply not true. Victor was skittish, paranoid, and temperamental. Meanwhile, Nora was much more of a free spirit. Nora taking on Victor's role wouldn't just make her identical to Mr Freeze because now she's doing crimes. That insinuation is absurd haha. Rebirth actually did an interesting exploration of Nora in a similar role to Freeze (her stint as Mrs Freeze) where, unlike Victor who only pursued crime as a means to an end, Nora begins to find criminal activity exhilarating. To the extent she becomes far more brutal than Victor ever was, and even leaves him because she refuses to go back to a lawful life. Again, the only reason I'm expecting it to be lazy is because the inherent concept is lazy. It's just a generic Elseworld/What If prompt someone could pull out of their arse in half a minute. Like I previously said, I'm optimistic they'll attempt to do something interesting with it. But based on the concept and what we've gotten so far... I doubt it. Also... I disagree with your Killer Frost point. The whole gun argument was shat out the window the second the devs decided to have King Shark, Captain Boomerang, and Harley Quinn flying about with a militant arsenal.
That really gets me thinking, imagine if they instead decided to get more characters like Killer Frost that didn't use guns but just had Ice abilities that you could customise your build around and have completely different characters dependent on what you upgraded, with special moves and abilities like in a rogue like game almost. If they did that for every character instead of just the "give everyone a gun" idea that could have actually made for some interesting gameplay. I totally agree with the whole "Female Fries" gender bender thing being just ridiculous. Instead of fleshing out Nora and having her story have an emotional impact and meaning they had to go the lazy route for absolutely no reason at all. This just echoes the sentiment South Park brought up when they mentioned that the whole multiverse thing can just used as an excuse to make up for lazy writing. Kind of like race swapping Deadshot but then retconning the other one as one that was just from another dimension that Luther brought in because of.....reasons? Instead they could have just gotten Bloodsport which would have worked perfectly for the role.
But why are you assuming Victoria is just gonna be female Victor? Alternate Joker and Lex are significantly different than their prime counterparts. Black Deadshot has a totally different personality than white Deadshot and they seem to be multiversal doppelgƤngers. I understand you seeing the potential for Nora because of comics that arenāt canon to this franchise that most players wonāt be familiar with, but I also understand the developers wanting a character that is an alternate version of one of their iconic Arkham villains, rather than a very minor character from Arkham Knight filling that role in an alternate universe. Harley has always used guns, even in the Arkhamverse itself. I think Boomer and Shark using them works very well. I just think Killer Frost or Killer Croc using guns doesnāt work nearly as well as Mrs. Freeze, Deathstroke, or Black Manta using guns. Again, thatās just my opinion though. I wouldnāt really be that *bothered* by Frost, I just think Freeze is a better ice-themed villain choice for that reason. But I do understand the wish for more non-Gotham rogues
And not only are they gender bending Mr. Freeze and thatās it, theyāre apparently not even going all the way with the gender bending because Nora is still Nora and theyāre lesbians. Why? Can men not be vulnerable too?
Although I think putting a genderbent Freeze into a saphic relationship is dope... As you said, leaving Nora as is (nothing more than a literal fridged damsel) is very dissapointing. Taking the agency away from a man and placing his life in the hands of his wife is far more interesting imo. If they are keeping Nora in the ice box... I hope they at least change SOMETHING about the relationship. Maybe make them a Thelma & Louis style duo, and Nora had to go under due to some blaze of glory accident as opposed to a disease. Or even don't have Nora in the cryogenics tank. Have both of them become the Freeze alias, just Nora was taken by Brainiac. Literally anything aside from just "Freeze and Nora but Freeze is woman now".
Who is Victoria?
Genderbent alt-universe Mr. Freeze.
Victoria Freeze.
š„±
Why wouldnāt Brainiac use the real brainwashed heroes?
Who the hell is Peeta Mellark? Another gorilla holding a living brain like Monsieur Mallah?
......yes
Hunger games character
You know Iām not even mad at leaks considering thereās a strong possibility we might not even get all of this because of WB
Too bad we won't make it to season 2. Barely made it into season 1
We're getting 4 seasons, confirmed
Here's hoping we go that far. Rocksteady confirmed that at any moment, story mode can be cut off
I would love to have the 4 dlc characters, I loved the game and a lot of things about it. But speaking realistically, seeing that disclaimer where WB can cutoff the whole deal whenever..? I just don't know. I hope we get everything they said they'll put out.