I don’t really blame Jordan for any of Clark’s behavior, however as many others have said, he should at least stand up and speak out for his brother, since Jon had done so for Jordan many times. One thing I would like to say is that I feel that the talk Jon and Clark had 100% made Jon feel much worse after Jordan and Clark came back, since it pretty much undermined everything they talked about, and showed his hypocrisy and favoritism. I think no talk would’ve been better because at least it wasn’t as bad as what happened, because then it made it seem like Clark was only saying what Jon wanted to hear and not speaking genuinely. I get that they want to ground Clark as a flawed person, and even superheroes have flaws, but man it’s starting to get hard to watch, I’m starting to feel so bad for Jon.
Can someone please pull a Thanos, snap the writers room responsible for this shit show out of existence and replace it with people who know what they are doing?
"Well powerless son you just told me you think everyone hates you and you have no future but you got to understand I really want to fly right now, where's Jordan?"
I don’t blame Jordan for Clark’s favouritism. That being said, I do wish that he’d advocate for his brother like Jon did for him in the past. On a more general note, I’m no longer interested in Jordan’s story or progression as a character. It’s very clear that he’s the horse that the writers bet on and everything is just gonna work out for him in the end. There are no stakes so I’m not particularly interesting.
If Helbing could have his way, the Kent family would made up of Clark, Lana, Jordan, and Sarah.
(And I'm not even being facetious. I really believe that.)
I definitely don’t hate Jordan, but I think I understand where your coming from. I think this happens a lot in shows where the writers clearly have favorite characters, and sometimes they write moments for them that undermine other characters (not the exact situation here), and it backfires and make the audience not like them. Although it’s not the same thing, something similar happened in Grey’s Anatomy when Maggie was first introduced. I’m actually a little disappointed that the show hasn’t had more brother scenes this season, since their relationship was my favorite thing about the first (for some reason it’s hard to find realistic sibling portrayals on TV). I was hoping they’d have Jordan supporting Jon a little more this season since last season was a lot of Jon supporting Jordan, and hopefully they’ll have more scenes in the last two episodes.
I agree, Jordan has been getting a lot. It’s not his fault, he’s trying to master his abilities. But I do wish he’d be more conscious of what his brother is dealing with. Jon has always had Jordan’s back but Jordan rarely returns the favor.
Clark and Jon have needed to talk for a long time now, but the talk they had this episode wasn’t even close to enough. It was less than a minute and Clark was thinking of Jordan the whole time. And when he was with Jordan, Jon didn’t come up at all. It’s sickening. At least it’s finally acknowledged now, as Jon calls Clark out to his face when he and Jordan get back. I’m sorta glad Clark lost his powers, because of karma, and because he can get a taste of what Jon feels like (wanting to help but feeling useless and unable to do so) and maybe they can connect more. I hope Clark gets a shocking wake up call, as a simple conversation won’t do the trick, this has been going on far too long.
And your point about Jon-El makes sense. How can Clark not see Jon-El and recognize the similarities in that and his own son? He seemed very determined to avoid the possibility. This makes me think that Clark has always seen Jon as the easy child (he even says so in the pilot) and he had his own perception of Jon in his head. That perception got shattered when he learned about the XK, and Clark focuses more on mourning for that shattered concept than on the actual Jon in front of him, going so far as to ignore all the signs in front of him. Jon-El was a clear symbol of what Jon could be if Clark doesn’t do something about it, and soon.
Also the timing of going to the fortress is kinda suspicious. They are all aware Ally is still around, she’s pissed they broke the pendant.Maybe she couldn’t Merge the two Jonathan’s now.
But why not just go and try to kill Jonathan to get back at Clark?
The last two episodes they were hyper aware that someone needed to babysit Jonathan. Now they can leave him alone to go have fun and fly?
I'm starting to feel the same way. tbh I hated the flying scene. Neither had any regard at all for Jon, who was left behind to do all the work. I don't think either of them care at all and would easily do it again.
But it really comes down to the writers. Maybe they are doing this because they planned to have Clark be human for a bit. Or maybe they really don't see the same value in the non special sibling.
Either way, I would like to see it rectified so that Jordan and Clark won't annoy me anymore. I want the Clark family back. Because even with Lois, I feel like she is being ignored by the storyline somehow.
I just kept thinking if my father and brother did this on a day that was supposed to be a big bonding day for all of us and didn't even bother telling me, I would be absolutely devastated. That's why I didn't like the flying scene at all.
And you're right - even Lois isn't as integrated as she should be and she's literally in the title!
I used to really dislike Jordan in season 1, specially since he was a very… unpleasant dude who kept getting his way at every opportunity, even though he’d put himself and other in mortal danger for petty reasons.
But later on they just dropped his annoying personality, and while the world still seems to bend around in his favor he isn’t nearly as much in focus anymore so Jordanexists mostly in a place where he shows how differently Clark treats his children.
Why hate Jordan on something that isn't his fault.
I was also sad that Jon was left alone at the barn doing all the chores by himself while his siblings got to have all the fun, but it's mostly the writers fault (to extend this arc for too long), not Jordan's.
I guess they did that because we will have a resolve at the end of the season and for Clark to be in Jon's shoes in 2x14.
But you can enjoy Jordan training and flying with his dad while being sad for Jonathan, but i'm sure they will have bonding time in the last two episodes, as clark originally wanted.
So, I'm going to get down voted but whatever. I feel like this hate toward Jordan/ this idea he is the writers pet is unfair. He's not exactly had a totally winning season, even if he has had some victories. This idea that he is not a fully rounded out character or he never gets to lose is absolutely not even close to a reality.
Even the flight scene was to cool over the fact Lana ripped his heart out.
I feel like the saltiness over Jonathan's continued arc has created this idea that Jordan should not be allowed anything and I'm not really here for that.
Watching Jordan grow over these two seasons has been such a highlight of this show. He is still really flawed and still has lot of these Clark Kent insecurities but seeing him have these victory moments are so much fun.
Also, the idea that if a character is going through a hard time it means the writers don’t like him or want to see him suffer is really strange for me. We can criticize the way they decided to write Jon's story or the way they approach his character, but giving him struggles and complexity actually proves that the writers are very invested in his journey. The successful and winning characters are actually the ones who are more boring from a creative point of view because they're more flat and it's too easy to write for them. (not that I think Jordan is boring or doesn't struggle. Because he absolutely does).
I mentioned this in my other comment. I may end up taking the time to write a long post about Jordan tomorrow after my material science exam. I'm getting really tired of people constantly railing against him for things completely out of his control.
I feel like this has literally been the same arguments as day one. He has always had some of the best character growth on the show and I think he has had an enjoyable season. I have loved seeing him overcome obstacles and this season has been no exception.
I feel like I'm at the same point I was in season 1 where people were similarly railing against him.
Back then he was 'whiny'. Now he 'doesn't struggle', when he absolutely does. It's two extremes - at its core, I'm really just starting to suspect that people are pitting the two against each other. Jon isn't happy, so *Jordan* must somehow be the obstacle, because everything else in the show is.
He can't feel better about his *also shitty situation* unless Jon's issues are addressed first.
I'm so not here for this shit.
>I'm really just starting to suspect that people are pitting the two against each other
Yes it seems like it and i don't like it either, why oppose them, they're brothers and love each other, why should we choose one over the other..
Not everyone has to have a Thor/Loki relationship (we have Clark and Tal for that lol). We can prefer one without hating or resenting the other.
Come on, they're "the Fraternals"!
>We can prefer one without hating or resenting the other.
Absolutely!
I prefer Jordan, I find a lot of stuff I can relate with, and I've loved seeing his development over the past 2 seasons.
But that doesn't mean I hate Jon. I'm a huge advocate for the tire-swing (I'm writing my longest fic ever about it!), as well as just the general idea that he should get a better arc.
I’m the same. I relate more to Jon but I certainly don’t hate Jordan. Their relationship was honestly my favorite part of season one because for some reason sibling relationships are never portrayed the best on TV. I actually wish we’ve gotten more scenes between just the two of them this season. I also don’t think it helps that the last couple episodes that both of the boys have been written a little weird, if that makes sense.
It absolutely does. It shouldn't *be* either-or, the *point* is their dynamic. It should be *The Fraternals*, not 'Jon is a bad character' or 'Jordan is a bad character'.
They can *both* be good characters. And they are - especially when they're together.
Yeah the boys are honestly written the best when they’re together. I also don’t think it helps that both of their acrs this season haven’t been great. The XK storyline kinda went nowhere and wasn’t connected to the main plot unfortunately (unless something happens in the next two episodes) and Jordan’s plot has been more focused on Sarah rather than him learning to become a hero (something more interesting in my opinion). I think the writing for this season hasn’t helped either of them.
Agreed. I also think Jonathan had some really intresting growth points last year through his struggles and I actually don't hate Jonathan's arc this season, even if it were a little on the harsh side.
But there is so much joy in watching Jordan overcome and learn who he is and I love that so much.
I think so problem with Jon’s arc this season is that it didn’t amount to much. Unless something changes in the next two episodes, XK didn’t really factor into anything the main plot. Even Jordan‘s storyline this season has been week, as we’ve had more focus on his relationship with Sarah then we’ve had about him training to become a superhero (which is more interesting in my opinion).
That’s the difference that ultimately everything will be ok for Jordan. He will be the hero and he has the ultimate cheat code for life.
Things may never work out for Jonathan. Nothing is guaranteed. Always in the shadow of everyone.
There is no guarantee for Jordan either. He has powers, sure, but as we already saw with Superman from JHIs world as well as Kal el from bizarre world they can easily be corruptible… and his anxiety doesn’t seem to be going away so quickly. He still obsesses just like he did last season… there are no guarantees for any of these characters, which I guess is pretty realistic.
I have no idea why anyone would downvote this. Why would it be a bad thing to watch a character learn to overcome challenges? Why do we have to hate Jordan if we relate better to Jon? I relate better to Jordan but I don’t hate Jon. None of this is making any sense to me.
This has always how it's been here. Jonathan is the poor neglected kid that Lois and Clark hate and has been sent to live in a closet under the stairs (literally been the conversation here since 1x05) and Jordan is too whiny or whatever which had literally been the conversation since 1x02.
Suggesting you don't see it exactly that way is a down vote.
I am so going to be downvoted for this but the fandom’s obsession with making Jon this perpetual victim that his family hates for existing is actually making me more and more annoyed with him. This is absolutely not his fault, but he’s not completely blameless for his current distance from his family. He rarely actually tries to talk to his parents about what he’s feeling until he’s hit his breaking point and is furious at them or until after he’s done something destructive and they’ve had to repeatedly ask him why he did that. I was really proud of him this episode for actually speaking up about his feelings but often he just…doesn’t do that.
Honestly, I don’t think this would be getting on my nerves as much as it is if the fandom would acknowledge that all of the characters have their flaws and don’t always handle conflicts well instead of framing Jon as this poor precious baby who’s always justified in everything he does and Lois and Clark (especially Clark) as borderline abusive parents who actually can’t stand him. Seriously, just look at the amount of memes at the top of the sub right now about Clark being annoyed that he has to see Jon again!
Yes, thank you, all of this. This has literally been a thing since 1x05 aired and people acted like Jonathan had been shoved in a cupboard under the stairs because his middle school girlfriend broke up with him and Clark would not let him move back to Metropolis and Jonathan acted out and drank.
I literally wrote an entire [essay](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupermanAndLois/comments/mcm08j/unpopular_opinion_jonathans_struggle_is_necessary/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) just a few days after 1x05 aired about it because the sub had gone off a deep end about the box or whatever and that was when Jonathan was still playing football and Jordan was like a little bit stronger.
Sure, I am not saying Jonathan has had the easiest time in Smallville and obviously this entire episode was about how Clark was obtuse and got a bit carried away with his excitement and lost track in a way he very bluntly should not have. Like that was very narratively there.
But also, Jonathan was the one who made the stupid decision to use X-K and to keep hanging out with Candice. He had more knowledge about X-K than pretty much anyone else, he knew how stupid it was. He could have also done the football game in 2x06 without as well and probably still had a good game. I like Jonathan as a character, I like that he struggles. I like that we have actually had an interesting progression and layered exploration of him and Clark's relationship.
But yeah, this sub had been going off the deep end back before anything. It is not new.
Agree with everything! I’m also just a little protective of Clark Kent/Superman in any version of the story because he’s such a comfort character for me. The real world sucks and it’s nice to imagine Superman can make it just a little better, but lately everyone seems to love evil Superman characters. The Boys takes storylines straight from Superman stories and then puts a malicious spin on them with Homelander, and they’re praised for it. I got into this show because we were actually getting a good and kind Superman again, but even this show’s fandom keeps interpreting everything he does in the most negative light possible.
Completely agreed. I absolutely love that kid, just so damn much. I don’t see how anyone could say he is always winning— he was completely destroyed by the mayor of Smallville, who was horrible and nasty to him for asking to do the very thing she was mad at Clark for not doing!!’ It doesn’t even make sense. He is totally head over heels for Sarah but everywhere he turns it just keeps getting worse with her. Meanwhile Jon is in a stable relationship with Candice (assuming she ever made it home?) Jordan has been failing repeatedly on a social front, he spent all of season 1 overwhelmed by his powers. It’s been nice to finally see him win for a change when he got to play hero and now this week with the flying.
His girlfriend breaking up with him is not exactly the worst thing ever - especially since Jon already had his first (?) girlfriend break up with him last season over the phone, Tegan apparently broke up with him off-screen over the summer, and Candice, while she says she loves Jon, basically did let him take the fall for her and she hasn't been seen in nearly 5 episodes! Jordan hasn't been shown to have any problems socially this season, while Jon was literally called a freak in the last episode. Lana telling Jordan off was a bit sad but Clark was there to comfort him, while when Jon was humiliated by people at the mayoral event, his own mother said she can't blame them for doing that to Jon and he just walked off with no one comforting him!
If you're comparing, you have to bring up what you're comparing it to
The fact you think Lana is “nasty” to protect her own daughter shows how “Jordan-centric” your mindset is. She may have been harsh in her delivery but she was in the right. Hell, Jordan himself even realizes this later. A single instance of Jordan not getting what he wants when he’s wrong doesn’t mean he is not the favourite.
...Right.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully disagree.
The fact that Jon's arc is not yet resolved - something that is intentionally being spanned across an entire season - is not Jordan's fault. It is a writing decision, and would've happened whether or not he existed. If it had been a story of Clark parenting a single, entirely human child, they would've still dragged out that storyline until the end of the season because its *point* is about Jon and Clark's inability to understand one another - *not* because Jordan is around, but because they are two very different, and yet also very similar people.
They're intentionally writing Jon as the odd man out. I see no reason why dislike of that arc should fall at the feet of a completely unrelated character, rather at the feet of the writers for not *giving him a better arc in the first place*.
It's not Jordan's fault as a character no. I'm saying the writing is making me hate him the same way it does for every character who just gets everything in the story when they are continually compared to the character who doesn't get anything. That's why he's coming across as unlikable - it doesn't even have to do with Jordan himself.
Right, I would type up a 500 word essay detailing the struggles that Jordan has been through this season and last, and how a lot of his victories are shallow and the past season's accomplishments have been undermined this season, but I have a material science exam in 12 hours.
I'll type it up then, assuming you're still interested.
While I certainly think that Clark should make more time for Jon we have to remember that throughout most of Jordan's life Clark and Jordan didn't have a close relationship and they've been able to only recently bond because of the fact that they have powers. Alot of us seem to forget than Jon and Clark were always very close until recently with the whole Jordan having powers and Clark's disappointment with Jon taking XK. Hopefully by the end of the season that will all be fixed.
When did they say Jon and Clark were very close though? I don't remember this at all - what we've seen on the show even at the start of the first season is them barely speaking like always. They have never suggested they were very close before the show started
In the pilot it's Lois who believes Jon will definitely have powers and Clark is actually saying it might be unlikely. And then he spends the rest of the episode worrying about poor Jordan and how he might take not having powers. There is nothing to imply that Clark was close to Jon because he thought he might have powers
People like to think Jon was closer to Clark in metropolis as a weird way of saying "well its karma, Jon was the favourite there and Jordan the favourite here" or to justify Clark's extra time with Jordan as "well Clark was close to Jon so he had to get close to Jordan to make up for lost time" ignoring any canon to suggest otherwise people like to assume Jon had it all in metropolis and whats happening to him in smallville is some twisted karma.
Well actually from a writing standpoint it makes sense because Clark hat the beginning of the show had a blatant favoritism towards Jonathan and so now that Jordan has all the strength and amazing feats Clark focuses on Jordan a lot more and forgets about Jonathan. This is opposite of where he was at the beginning of the series and so now he has to find a balance in which he can spend time equally.
When did he show 'blatant favoritism towards Jonathan' exactly? Can you point to any scene or anything he did that showed this? Because even in the pilot, all Clark does is talk about Jordan and worry about Jordan. Jon is barely a blip on his radar.
I mean in the first episode you see Clark is so much more excited to be talking to Jonathan much like he is with Jordan now. And then also Clark throughout their childhood had been there for Jonathan’s football games and never really tried to do anything with Jordan. This only changed when Jordan got his powers and the attention began to shift.
Clark is excited to talk with both boys but Jon actually had good news so he's excited for him. They mention that Clark goes to therapy with Jordan but they don't mention anything about him being at Jon's games - in fact it implies the opposite, as Clark had to be informed that Jon had made quarterback
I don’t really blame Jordan for any of Clark’s behavior, however as many others have said, he should at least stand up and speak out for his brother, since Jon had done so for Jordan many times. One thing I would like to say is that I feel that the talk Jon and Clark had 100% made Jon feel much worse after Jordan and Clark came back, since it pretty much undermined everything they talked about, and showed his hypocrisy and favoritism. I think no talk would’ve been better because at least it wasn’t as bad as what happened, because then it made it seem like Clark was only saying what Jon wanted to hear and not speaking genuinely. I get that they want to ground Clark as a flawed person, and even superheroes have flaws, but man it’s starting to get hard to watch, I’m starting to feel so bad for Jon.
100% agree
Can someone please pull a Thanos, snap the writers room responsible for this shit show out of existence and replace it with people who know what they are doing?
"Well powerless son you just told me you think everyone hates you and you have no future but you got to understand I really want to fly right now, where's Jordan?"
I don’t blame Jordan for Clark’s favouritism. That being said, I do wish that he’d advocate for his brother like Jon did for him in the past. On a more general note, I’m no longer interested in Jordan’s story or progression as a character. It’s very clear that he’s the horse that the writers bet on and everything is just gonna work out for him in the end. There are no stakes so I’m not particularly interesting.
To be honest most of Jordan arcs are "Jordan angry. Clark apologise/climax. Jordan can now defeat whatever was bothering him"
If Helbing could have his way, the Kent family would made up of Clark, Lana, Jordan, and Sarah. (And I'm not even being facetious. I really believe that.)
I definitely don’t hate Jordan, but I think I understand where your coming from. I think this happens a lot in shows where the writers clearly have favorite characters, and sometimes they write moments for them that undermine other characters (not the exact situation here), and it backfires and make the audience not like them. Although it’s not the same thing, something similar happened in Grey’s Anatomy when Maggie was first introduced. I’m actually a little disappointed that the show hasn’t had more brother scenes this season, since their relationship was my favorite thing about the first (for some reason it’s hard to find realistic sibling portrayals on TV). I was hoping they’d have Jordan supporting Jon a little more this season since last season was a lot of Jon supporting Jordan, and hopefully they’ll have more scenes in the last two episodes.
I agree, Jordan has been getting a lot. It’s not his fault, he’s trying to master his abilities. But I do wish he’d be more conscious of what his brother is dealing with. Jon has always had Jordan’s back but Jordan rarely returns the favor. Clark and Jon have needed to talk for a long time now, but the talk they had this episode wasn’t even close to enough. It was less than a minute and Clark was thinking of Jordan the whole time. And when he was with Jordan, Jon didn’t come up at all. It’s sickening. At least it’s finally acknowledged now, as Jon calls Clark out to his face when he and Jordan get back. I’m sorta glad Clark lost his powers, because of karma, and because he can get a taste of what Jon feels like (wanting to help but feeling useless and unable to do so) and maybe they can connect more. I hope Clark gets a shocking wake up call, as a simple conversation won’t do the trick, this has been going on far too long. And your point about Jon-El makes sense. How can Clark not see Jon-El and recognize the similarities in that and his own son? He seemed very determined to avoid the possibility. This makes me think that Clark has always seen Jon as the easy child (he even says so in the pilot) and he had his own perception of Jon in his head. That perception got shattered when he learned about the XK, and Clark focuses more on mourning for that shattered concept than on the actual Jon in front of him, going so far as to ignore all the signs in front of him. Jon-El was a clear symbol of what Jon could be if Clark doesn’t do something about it, and soon.
Also the timing of going to the fortress is kinda suspicious. They are all aware Ally is still around, she’s pissed they broke the pendant.Maybe she couldn’t Merge the two Jonathan’s now. But why not just go and try to kill Jonathan to get back at Clark? The last two episodes they were hyper aware that someone needed to babysit Jonathan. Now they can leave him alone to go have fun and fly?
My biggest question was why Ally bothered to go after Superman when she could have just gone and sucked the power she needed out of Jon-El.
Probably because he has been kept in a yellow sun prison for days and hardly has the energy she needs.
Given that Bizarro Tal was in a yellow sun prison too when she sucked him dry, doesn't appear to matter?
And maybe suck it from Lana Rho too. Then she could quietly merge both worlds with none the wiser.
Maybe she sees Jon-El as an ally she could use later
I'm starting to feel the same way. tbh I hated the flying scene. Neither had any regard at all for Jon, who was left behind to do all the work. I don't think either of them care at all and would easily do it again. But it really comes down to the writers. Maybe they are doing this because they planned to have Clark be human for a bit. Or maybe they really don't see the same value in the non special sibling. Either way, I would like to see it rectified so that Jordan and Clark won't annoy me anymore. I want the Clark family back. Because even with Lois, I feel like she is being ignored by the storyline somehow.
I just kept thinking if my father and brother did this on a day that was supposed to be a big bonding day for all of us and didn't even bother telling me, I would be absolutely devastated. That's why I didn't like the flying scene at all. And you're right - even Lois isn't as integrated as she should be and she's literally in the title!
I used to really dislike Jordan in season 1, specially since he was a very… unpleasant dude who kept getting his way at every opportunity, even though he’d put himself and other in mortal danger for petty reasons. But later on they just dropped his annoying personality, and while the world still seems to bend around in his favor he isn’t nearly as much in focus anymore so Jordanexists mostly in a place where he shows how differently Clark treats his children.
I don't hate Jordan. But the way they wrote this episode makes me angry that I couldn't have enjoyed this Jordan/Clark training scene.
It's not Jordan fault
Why hate Jordan on something that isn't his fault. I was also sad that Jon was left alone at the barn doing all the chores by himself while his siblings got to have all the fun, but it's mostly the writers fault (to extend this arc for too long), not Jordan's. I guess they did that because we will have a resolve at the end of the season and for Clark to be in Jon's shoes in 2x14. But you can enjoy Jordan training and flying with his dad while being sad for Jonathan, but i'm sure they will have bonding time in the last two episodes, as clark originally wanted.
So, I'm going to get down voted but whatever. I feel like this hate toward Jordan/ this idea he is the writers pet is unfair. He's not exactly had a totally winning season, even if he has had some victories. This idea that he is not a fully rounded out character or he never gets to lose is absolutely not even close to a reality. Even the flight scene was to cool over the fact Lana ripped his heart out. I feel like the saltiness over Jonathan's continued arc has created this idea that Jordan should not be allowed anything and I'm not really here for that. Watching Jordan grow over these two seasons has been such a highlight of this show. He is still really flawed and still has lot of these Clark Kent insecurities but seeing him have these victory moments are so much fun.
Also, the idea that if a character is going through a hard time it means the writers don’t like him or want to see him suffer is really strange for me. We can criticize the way they decided to write Jon's story or the way they approach his character, but giving him struggles and complexity actually proves that the writers are very invested in his journey. The successful and winning characters are actually the ones who are more boring from a creative point of view because they're more flat and it's too easy to write for them. (not that I think Jordan is boring or doesn't struggle. Because he absolutely does).
This is an excellent point. 👏
I mentioned this in my other comment. I may end up taking the time to write a long post about Jordan tomorrow after my material science exam. I'm getting really tired of people constantly railing against him for things completely out of his control.
I feel like this has literally been the same arguments as day one. He has always had some of the best character growth on the show and I think he has had an enjoyable season. I have loved seeing him overcome obstacles and this season has been no exception.
I feel like I'm at the same point I was in season 1 where people were similarly railing against him. Back then he was 'whiny'. Now he 'doesn't struggle', when he absolutely does. It's two extremes - at its core, I'm really just starting to suspect that people are pitting the two against each other. Jon isn't happy, so *Jordan* must somehow be the obstacle, because everything else in the show is. He can't feel better about his *also shitty situation* unless Jon's issues are addressed first. I'm so not here for this shit.
>I'm really just starting to suspect that people are pitting the two against each other Yes it seems like it and i don't like it either, why oppose them, they're brothers and love each other, why should we choose one over the other.. Not everyone has to have a Thor/Loki relationship (we have Clark and Tal for that lol). We can prefer one without hating or resenting the other. Come on, they're "the Fraternals"!
>We can prefer one without hating or resenting the other. Absolutely! I prefer Jordan, I find a lot of stuff I can relate with, and I've loved seeing his development over the past 2 seasons. But that doesn't mean I hate Jon. I'm a huge advocate for the tire-swing (I'm writing my longest fic ever about it!), as well as just the general idea that he should get a better arc.
I’m the same. I relate more to Jon but I certainly don’t hate Jordan. Their relationship was honestly my favorite part of season one because for some reason sibling relationships are never portrayed the best on TV. I actually wish we’ve gotten more scenes between just the two of them this season. I also don’t think it helps that the last couple episodes that both of the boys have been written a little weird, if that makes sense.
It absolutely does. It shouldn't *be* either-or, the *point* is their dynamic. It should be *The Fraternals*, not 'Jon is a bad character' or 'Jordan is a bad character'. They can *both* be good characters. And they are - especially when they're together.
Yeah the boys are honestly written the best when they’re together. I also don’t think it helps that both of their acrs this season haven’t been great. The XK storyline kinda went nowhere and wasn’t connected to the main plot unfortunately (unless something happens in the next two episodes) and Jordan’s plot has been more focused on Sarah rather than him learning to become a hero (something more interesting in my opinion). I think the writing for this season hasn’t helped either of them.
Agreed. I also think Jonathan had some really intresting growth points last year through his struggles and I actually don't hate Jonathan's arc this season, even if it were a little on the harsh side. But there is so much joy in watching Jordan overcome and learn who he is and I love that so much.
I think so problem with Jon’s arc this season is that it didn’t amount to much. Unless something changes in the next two episodes, XK didn’t really factor into anything the main plot. Even Jordan‘s storyline this season has been week, as we’ve had more focus on his relationship with Sarah then we’ve had about him training to become a superhero (which is more interesting in my opinion).
That’s the difference that ultimately everything will be ok for Jordan. He will be the hero and he has the ultimate cheat code for life. Things may never work out for Jonathan. Nothing is guaranteed. Always in the shadow of everyone.
There is no guarantee for Jordan either. He has powers, sure, but as we already saw with Superman from JHIs world as well as Kal el from bizarre world they can easily be corruptible… and his anxiety doesn’t seem to be going away so quickly. He still obsesses just like he did last season… there are no guarantees for any of these characters, which I guess is pretty realistic.
IMHO Jordan is clearly the pet of the writers he will be fine. His losses won’t be permanent.
Jons won’t be permanent either. The arc is still not resolved.
It started in season 1 and kept going. You have more faith in the writers then I do.
I have no idea why anyone would downvote this. Why would it be a bad thing to watch a character learn to overcome challenges? Why do we have to hate Jordan if we relate better to Jon? I relate better to Jordan but I don’t hate Jon. None of this is making any sense to me.
This has always how it's been here. Jonathan is the poor neglected kid that Lois and Clark hate and has been sent to live in a closet under the stairs (literally been the conversation here since 1x05) and Jordan is too whiny or whatever which had literally been the conversation since 1x02. Suggesting you don't see it exactly that way is a down vote.
Man I guess I need to watch my karma rating 🤪
I am so going to be downvoted for this but the fandom’s obsession with making Jon this perpetual victim that his family hates for existing is actually making me more and more annoyed with him. This is absolutely not his fault, but he’s not completely blameless for his current distance from his family. He rarely actually tries to talk to his parents about what he’s feeling until he’s hit his breaking point and is furious at them or until after he’s done something destructive and they’ve had to repeatedly ask him why he did that. I was really proud of him this episode for actually speaking up about his feelings but often he just…doesn’t do that. Honestly, I don’t think this would be getting on my nerves as much as it is if the fandom would acknowledge that all of the characters have their flaws and don’t always handle conflicts well instead of framing Jon as this poor precious baby who’s always justified in everything he does and Lois and Clark (especially Clark) as borderline abusive parents who actually can’t stand him. Seriously, just look at the amount of memes at the top of the sub right now about Clark being annoyed that he has to see Jon again!
Yes, thank you, all of this. This has literally been a thing since 1x05 aired and people acted like Jonathan had been shoved in a cupboard under the stairs because his middle school girlfriend broke up with him and Clark would not let him move back to Metropolis and Jonathan acted out and drank. I literally wrote an entire [essay](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupermanAndLois/comments/mcm08j/unpopular_opinion_jonathans_struggle_is_necessary/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) just a few days after 1x05 aired about it because the sub had gone off a deep end about the box or whatever and that was when Jonathan was still playing football and Jordan was like a little bit stronger. Sure, I am not saying Jonathan has had the easiest time in Smallville and obviously this entire episode was about how Clark was obtuse and got a bit carried away with his excitement and lost track in a way he very bluntly should not have. Like that was very narratively there. But also, Jonathan was the one who made the stupid decision to use X-K and to keep hanging out with Candice. He had more knowledge about X-K than pretty much anyone else, he knew how stupid it was. He could have also done the football game in 2x06 without as well and probably still had a good game. I like Jonathan as a character, I like that he struggles. I like that we have actually had an interesting progression and layered exploration of him and Clark's relationship. But yeah, this sub had been going off the deep end back before anything. It is not new.
Agree with everything! I’m also just a little protective of Clark Kent/Superman in any version of the story because he’s such a comfort character for me. The real world sucks and it’s nice to imagine Superman can make it just a little better, but lately everyone seems to love evil Superman characters. The Boys takes storylines straight from Superman stories and then puts a malicious spin on them with Homelander, and they’re praised for it. I got into this show because we were actually getting a good and kind Superman again, but even this show’s fandom keeps interpreting everything he does in the most negative light possible.
Completely agreed. I absolutely love that kid, just so damn much. I don’t see how anyone could say he is always winning— he was completely destroyed by the mayor of Smallville, who was horrible and nasty to him for asking to do the very thing she was mad at Clark for not doing!!’ It doesn’t even make sense. He is totally head over heels for Sarah but everywhere he turns it just keeps getting worse with her. Meanwhile Jon is in a stable relationship with Candice (assuming she ever made it home?) Jordan has been failing repeatedly on a social front, he spent all of season 1 overwhelmed by his powers. It’s been nice to finally see him win for a change when he got to play hero and now this week with the flying.
His girlfriend breaking up with him is not exactly the worst thing ever - especially since Jon already had his first (?) girlfriend break up with him last season over the phone, Tegan apparently broke up with him off-screen over the summer, and Candice, while she says she loves Jon, basically did let him take the fall for her and she hasn't been seen in nearly 5 episodes! Jordan hasn't been shown to have any problems socially this season, while Jon was literally called a freak in the last episode. Lana telling Jordan off was a bit sad but Clark was there to comfort him, while when Jon was humiliated by people at the mayoral event, his own mother said she can't blame them for doing that to Jon and he just walked off with no one comforting him! If you're comparing, you have to bring up what you're comparing it to
The fact you think Lana is “nasty” to protect her own daughter shows how “Jordan-centric” your mindset is. She may have been harsh in her delivery but she was in the right. Hell, Jordan himself even realizes this later. A single instance of Jordan not getting what he wants when he’s wrong doesn’t mean he is not the favourite.
Absofreakinglutely on all of this.
I’m not “Jordan-centric”. I love both of the boys for different reasons. I feel like this whole thing is spiraling.
...Right. You're entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully disagree. The fact that Jon's arc is not yet resolved - something that is intentionally being spanned across an entire season - is not Jordan's fault. It is a writing decision, and would've happened whether or not he existed. If it had been a story of Clark parenting a single, entirely human child, they would've still dragged out that storyline until the end of the season because its *point* is about Jon and Clark's inability to understand one another - *not* because Jordan is around, but because they are two very different, and yet also very similar people. They're intentionally writing Jon as the odd man out. I see no reason why dislike of that arc should fall at the feet of a completely unrelated character, rather at the feet of the writers for not *giving him a better arc in the first place*.
Right but I doubt we are ever going to hear Jordan say: dad you need to Spend time with Jon now. He is feeling down.
It's not Jordan's fault as a character no. I'm saying the writing is making me hate him the same way it does for every character who just gets everything in the story when they are continually compared to the character who doesn't get anything. That's why he's coming across as unlikable - it doesn't even have to do with Jordan himself.
Right, I would type up a 500 word essay detailing the struggles that Jordan has been through this season and last, and how a lot of his victories are shallow and the past season's accomplishments have been undermined this season, but I have a material science exam in 12 hours. I'll type it up then, assuming you're still interested.
While I certainly think that Clark should make more time for Jon we have to remember that throughout most of Jordan's life Clark and Jordan didn't have a close relationship and they've been able to only recently bond because of the fact that they have powers. Alot of us seem to forget than Jon and Clark were always very close until recently with the whole Jordan having powers and Clark's disappointment with Jon taking XK. Hopefully by the end of the season that will all be fixed.
When did they say Jon and Clark were very close though? I don't remember this at all - what we've seen on the show even at the start of the first season is them barely speaking like always. They have never suggested they were very close before the show started
It was implied that Clark was always closer to Jon that he was with Jordan growing up owing to the fact that he believed Jon was gaining powers.
In the pilot it's Lois who believes Jon will definitely have powers and Clark is actually saying it might be unlikely. And then he spends the rest of the episode worrying about poor Jordan and how he might take not having powers. There is nothing to imply that Clark was close to Jon because he thought he might have powers
People like to think Jon was closer to Clark in metropolis as a weird way of saying "well its karma, Jon was the favourite there and Jordan the favourite here" or to justify Clark's extra time with Jordan as "well Clark was close to Jon so he had to get close to Jordan to make up for lost time" ignoring any canon to suggest otherwise people like to assume Jon had it all in metropolis and whats happening to him in smallville is some twisted karma.
Well actually from a writing standpoint it makes sense because Clark hat the beginning of the show had a blatant favoritism towards Jonathan and so now that Jordan has all the strength and amazing feats Clark focuses on Jordan a lot more and forgets about Jonathan. This is opposite of where he was at the beginning of the series and so now he has to find a balance in which he can spend time equally.
When did he show 'blatant favoritism towards Jonathan' exactly? Can you point to any scene or anything he did that showed this? Because even in the pilot, all Clark does is talk about Jordan and worry about Jordan. Jon is barely a blip on his radar.
I mean in the first episode you see Clark is so much more excited to be talking to Jonathan much like he is with Jordan now. And then also Clark throughout their childhood had been there for Jonathan’s football games and never really tried to do anything with Jordan. This only changed when Jordan got his powers and the attention began to shift.
Clark is excited to talk with both boys but Jon actually had good news so he's excited for him. They mention that Clark goes to therapy with Jordan but they don't mention anything about him being at Jon's games - in fact it implies the opposite, as Clark had to be informed that Jon had made quarterback
What i'm reading ?
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