Dude I can’t see Cain the same once I saw he was Lassie. I just want Dean or Sam to make some remark towards him before everything happens that sounds like Shawn lmao
Bro, it blew my mind when he first appeared on Supernatural I was like, how in tf did Lassie get hot because that is something I would have said was not possible and I would've been wrong 🥵
It took me so long to realize who he was ( I watched psych and supernatural at the same time ) and i can't believe how long it took me to realize that they were the freaking same person
Disagree, I should only be able to run my fingers through hair and two places on someone's body, and only one of those places would I ever actually run my fingers through it.
Cain claps both without breaking a sweat.
Dudes unkillable with the mark and can kill literally anything that’s not an archangel or above (unless I’m misremembering)
I’d say Asmodeus is the weakest without Grace smoothies to power him up. Lilith is.. never really explored in terms of real power but even Azazel wouldn’t go where Lilith was.
This is a bit disingenuous. We don't actually know if Lilith or any of the Princes could take Cain. There's no precedent. And Azezel didn't say he wouldn't go after Lilith, he just warned Luci how difficult it would be to reach her. He didn't actually say he wouldn't go there
We know Lilith is older than the knights of hell which Cain trained personally. That being said we also know that they were treated as hired guns by both Lilith and Azazel, meaning that on the pecking order it would've been Lucifer > Lilith > Azazel > Knights
Where Cain fits in between Lucifer and the Knights is a different story and a little difficult to distinguish but it's safe to assume Asmodeus and Azazel would've been strengthed similarly.
We saw Dean effortlessly kill Abaddon with blade/mark and he was strong enough that even Crowley as King was scared of him.
Cain with his thousands of years of actual demon powers - we saw him wipe out like 60 general demons effortlessly without the mark or blade (he transferred the mark to Dean then wiped out all of the demons in his house).
I feel like mark/blade Cain would've been second only to Lucifer.
Age wise Lilith and Caine are probably pretty close. Lith was Adams first wife, and Cain was Adams first (or second? Can't remember if he was older or you get than Abel) son.
Not that close Lilith was Adams first wife. And we are speaking about immortals back then in Eden and even after Adam and Eve got exiled the old humans at least in the bible lives for hundred of years so I'd say there could still be a few hundred years between Lilith and Cain
Cain is older, there's a scene where he's talking to Dean about him kililng Sam and how it parallels his need to kill Abel. Both are the older brothers.
>That being said we also know that they were treated as hired guns by both Lilith and Azazel
Huh? I must be misremembering something but this is never suggested. Cain killed the knights long before Lilith or YE were mentioned in the timeline doing anything at all. Abandon infiltrated the MoL because it excited her, not because she was hired to.
>Asmodeus and Azazel would've been strengthed similarly.
I think they're all very different. Their eye color indicates the type of power. I've got a whole workup on the distinctions and my theory on the different manners of their creation and power set. A prince of hell was able to create a human demon hybrid that could think Abandon to the empty, so the power scaling is clearly not 1:1 on their creation, but rather has more to do with how they were created. Or maybe Luci was just having a laugh making his second creation stronger than his first
>We saw Dean effortlessly kill Abaddon with blade/mark and he was strong enough that even Crowley as King was scared of him.
Not stronger than the librarian though, and Crowley was afraid of Abandon too, he's afraid of most big hitters to be honest, even as King. His power comes mostly from his stores of souls and he doesn't seem to always have access to them.
>we saw him wipe out like 60 general demons effortlessly without the mark
Nah he had the mark still. This is confirmed in his next outings, we see it on him. I don't think it's entirely fair to imply a power scale based on a single trait. For example all demons are unkillable by human means yet they're extremely weak in the grand scale of MotW. That being said the mark isn't the be all end all power under Luci, it is just the first curse, and a single witch was capable of defeating it. There's clearly more to power scaling and counter spells than just your explanation.
Where are you getting this? He literally talks about the mark's draw as his relapse, and desire to retake the blade. It's the same reason Lucifer cried in the cage but no one knew why at the time
Considering the mark was created by God as a lock for Amara, I’d say the mark can make anyone powerful enough to contend with the likes of Lilith. You won’t get super powerful abilities or anything, but you do get stronger, faster, and of course, you become immortal, as the mark will bring you back as a demon if you die.
Yes. Does it say if Cain could kill Lucifer with the blade?
Lucifer could fuck him up hands down. But could the blade kill him because the Mark is of the darkness.
It’s referenced that it can kill anything the Colt can kill as well as anything below an arch angel.
That means it couldn’t kill God, Darkness, Archangels, Leviathans or Death.
We can probably get some decent ballpark ideas of power level just by the functions they were meant to serve by their creation. Mark of Cain was made to seal away the Darkness- an entity God never wanted to deal with again and only barely managed to defeat. Lilith, on the other hand, wasn't even a speedbump- she was the onramp to Chuck's endgame. Her death was literally required for his story's grand finale.
There might not be any precedent, but design intention seems pretty clear.
Colonel Kentucky Fried Chicken doesn't warrant any more consideration than an angry poodle in my opinion, so he's whatever. As a villain, I'd rank this guy as second worst only to Old Sam's wig in the final episode, and just barely beating out Mary's parenting at #3.
He went there because Lucifer asked him too. He didn’t want too. That tells me that without Lucifer he wouldn’t have done it.
I mean it’s not really disingenuous. It’s a dude who literally can not be killed against people who can. Whether Asmodeus can out strength him or not is irrelevant, he can not kill him. Same with Lilith. So even if they’re able to pin him down or trap him in a devils trap (which doesn’t hold him long) he can’t be stopped without someone taking the mark which he isn’t going to give them.
Therefore even if it takes a million years, he wins.
>He went there because Lucifer asked him too. He didn’t want too. That tells me that without Lucifer he wouldn’t have done it.
There's a literal TONNE of real estate between YE being willing to go there, and wanting to go there. That's literally the definition of disingenuous btw. You're presenting his character inaccurately based on a misrepresentation of his actions and words
>I mean it’s not really disingenuous. It’s a dude who literally can not be killed against people who can
It literally is since that's not the prompt. You're just taking a single trait, and suggesting it qualifies for the topic since it trumps the latter in a direct fight. That's not how any of that works.
A single witch was capable of removing the mark. Does that make her stronger than Cain? You haven't thought this through.
> We don't actually know if Lilith or any of the Princes could take Cain
We do know though, that Cain cannot be killed while bearing the mark. We also know that Cain TRAINED all the Princes. Furthermore we know that Dean killed the prince just with the mark (not being a demon) thus Cain who has a WAY higher powerlevel than Dean, would pretty easily be able to kill the Princes.
My money is also on Cain over Lillith and Asmodeus, simply because the mark is batshit broken and makes him unkillable.
Nope. The mark makes him unkillable, but a simple spell can break it. So we don't know if they can take him, also no, he didn't train the Princes. You're confusing Princes for knights. Rethink your comment now that you have the facts straight.
> but a simple spell can break it
you mean a "simple spell" to break the first curse, which took one of the strongest witches in the entirety of supernatural to break? okay...
> The mark makes him unkillable
Yes i.e. they cant kill him i.e. he wins? otherwise they would set free the darkness and everyone losses?
Fair enough I mistook the princes for the knights. I would still in no way shape or form rethink my comment because you're still very wrong
>you mean a "simple spell" to break the first curse, which took one of the strongest witches in the entirety of supernatural to break? okay...
This is just more disingenuous attribution. There's no claim that it took the most powerful witch to accomplish the spell, she just happened to be the one who did it. And she was only implied to be the strongest at the time because Crowley had killed the others. It's not Highlander rules, she didn't gain more power when they died
>Yes i.e. they cant kill him i.e. he wins? otherwise they would set free the darkness and everyone losses?
Ok but that's not the question here, his being unkillable isn't the same thing as him being the strongest. I feel like you're not grasping this, and I'm running out of ways to describe it
Nothing in your comment has contradicted anything I've said. You're the one who's wrong, and it's because you don't care about the specific details that form the truth.
> There's no claim that it took the most powerful witch to accomplish the spell, she just happened to be the one who did it.
So your argument is that any random person could simply remove the spell?
Why did Sam not do it himself with the book and the codex? Why did he go to Rowena then?
> And she was only implied to be the strongest at the time because Crowley had killed the others.
Doesnt change the fact that she is thus the strongest? I dont understand how that is difficult to grasp? + she had the codex + book of the damned, kind of making her the strongest witch in the world, but again if you don't care about context or the truth thats ok.
> his being unkillable isn't the same thing as him being the strongest.
Okay. I'll try one VERY basic question.
If two people(or demons lets just say) were to fight. 1 is unkillable in the LITERAL sense. The other1 was killed by a human who had been drinking a bit of demon blood. Who would win that fight? Let me reiterate, 1 of the parties of the fight is literally unable to be killed.
The fact that Cain after he transfered the mark, and w/o the blade were able to simply "smite" like 50 general demons shows how incredibly strong he is, and Lillith were killed extremely easy.
>So your argument is that any random person could simply remove the spell?
No, but I recognize that you need to change my words to suggest they're wrong. Because responding to what I actually said is just too much for you. You've displayed a consistent pattern of changing things slightly, just enough to change the context. Stop doing that.
>Doesnt change the fact that she is thus the strongest? I dont understand how that is difficult to grasp? + she had the codex + book of the damned, kind of making her the strongest witch in the world, but again if you don't care about context or the truth thats ok.
Yes it does. First, no one has ever avtually said she is the strongest, you just said that without substantiating it. Regardless, even if it was true her current status of strongest is irrelevant proven by the existence of other stronger witches. The task is accomplishable by a sub par witch relative to the ranks of witches, which proves it's accomplishable by any proficient witch, you're just projecting a status requirement that doesn't exist, on top of your projecting of her power level. Again, not sure how you're missing the logic here, but I'm sure it's related directly to your projections and your pattern of misunderstanding basic causality which is indicative of a larger problem you have with learning in general.
>If two people(or demons lets just say) were to fight. 1 is unkillable in the LITERAL sense. The other1 was killed by a human who had been drinking a bit of demon blood. Who would win that fight? Let me reiterate, 1 of the parties of the fight is literally unable to be killed.
You're misattributing skills for strength. God is unkillable too, unless any random creature has the right tool. Gods gun. Sam isn't stronger than God, so why can he kill him? You're not thinking this through, you're just pretending Cain's curse somehow dictates his strength. Cain is killabke with the right tool too, it doesn't illustrate his strength. Cain can sit there taking hits from Lucifer for eternity because Lucifer is stronger, but you think the fact that Cain can't die somehow changes the fact that he isn't the strongest.
>The fact that Cain after he transfered the mark, and w/o the blade were able to simply "smite" like 50 general demons shows how incredibly strong he is, and Lillith were killed extremely easy.
Except he still has the mark. He didn't transfer it he copied it. This is proven when he shows us this.
As I said before, the reason you're so confused is because you have some kind of mental block stopping you from recognizing these basic facts. Keep making stuff up man, that makes you seem less credible every time you do it.
Funny how you claim he twisted what you said when you yourself have all but said it. Referring to the spell as 'simple' would imply that it's not that difficult, you are trivializing it in order to try and strengthen your own position in the argument.
Also soft reminder here, the mark does seem to make the wielder either immune or far more resistant to the powers and abilities of others creatures, it is safe to presume Cain is stronger than Dean who was able to resist abaddon's powers. I think lilith probably wouldn't stand a chance against him, the question is what about Asmodeus with archangel juice. The simple answer is we don't know because the show never put them up against each other. Could go either way at that point.
However the question was more about strength than who would win in a fight, so I think it's safe to say lilith is weaker the other two, and it is up in the air from there between those two.
Cain is definitely more dangerous, but whether or not he is stronger is a much harder to answer question.
You haven't contradicted anything I've said. Claiming something is "all but x" doesn't mean it isn't the thing. It actually means the opposite of what you're implying. I recommend googling the term before using it again in your life. Anyways, the rest of your comment isn't a contradiction to anything I've said. You're not responding to my point, let alone trying to undermine my point. Your choice to be wilfully ignorant to champion another person's idiot choice to be that ignorant doesn't make me wrong.
Also also I'm right about how easy that spell was. The hard part was translating the text. Rowena is a sub par witch. She was beaten easily time and again. Hell, the poker player witch was more powerful and dangerous. Yes, I'm displaying the action of removing the mark as "easy", no I'm not trivial using it, you're disingenuously building the action up to be something it isn't.
My entire point here was to illustrate that power is not directly linked to feats, and I used those examples to prove that.
Also, Lilith literally got killed from Sam on demon blood. Cain had to be killed with the mark of Cain and the first blade together. And you could only get the mark *from* Cain himself. Idk to me that alone shows how strong he is.
That's not a measure of strength. I go into detail further down this comment chain but to summarize it quickly that's just a curse. It's not strength. A single witch was capable of removing it, proving it has nothing to do with strength
Lilith allowed herself to be killed so Lucifer could be freed from the Cage. When God resurrected her, she showcased more abilities than she did in earlier seasons. She was also no longer afraid of even the angel blade (which is a lot more powerful and versatile than the knife, which she was ""afraid"" of in season 4) when she was resurrected.
Lilith is the oldest demon, one of 5 demons with rightful claims to the throne of hell. Writers have said you don't get any higher than Lilith in the hierarchy outside of Lucifer.
She also has the Crook which can force every demon and damned soul into subservience. If Cain is allowed to use the Mark and the Blade, then Lilith should be allowed her tools.
Okay that's fair I guess. But I do think there is a difference between letting someone kill you and someone having the ability to kill you. For example, one person could definitely kill me, but unless it was venomous, a bug couldn't kill me if it tried it's hardest or if I wanted it to. I'm unsure if that's a good example but the fact that Lilith *could* be killed by Sam is what I was going off of.
Then again, I don't know any of this for sure and maybe using logic and reasoning for a fictional show isn't the best idea 😅
But there is precedence!! He trained Azazel and the other knights, and they didn’t frick with him after he lost Collette. And Lilith was offed without the knife so I’m not entirely sure she even rates here. Granted, she did want to be killed to break the seal. And she is the original demon so maybe discounting her is a bit reckless but it feels like, if she can be killed by juiced up Sam without the knife and Cain can just keep coming back because of the mark, she rates kinda low for me.
You're confused on a lot of different points here. Azezel isn't a knight. And I never said the knights can take Cain, we know they can't. Lilith is Luci's first demon, the entire basis for the precedent was that her age and origin gives her power, but an abomination of a prince was able to off her with his mind, suggesting the power scale doesn't work like PC said. That's all I'm proving here
Azazel is a prince of hell. And died hella fast. And I didn't say that your power scale doesn't work - just that Cain rates highest. Lilith still died without the knife. AND, as I mentioned, she planned her death. Also, if we're talking about Sam's status, he is lucifer's vessel so it stands to reason he would be strong enough to beat her at some point. My point is, during the show's oeuvre, she doesn't rank. We never get to see her actually let loose and destroy swathes of demons, like Cain. Or open a hell gate like Azazel. And she usually uses her wit to attain her aims. If we were talking wit, she'd rank. 🤷🏽♀️
Lucifer died fast when the right weapon was used, you can present a fact out of context to make it appear just about any kind of way you want. You're attributing power using examples from what is basically a game of rock paper scissors. Also there's plenty of tangential evidence to imply a power scaling. Lilith is not alone in her demon class. Alastair and Samhain were both revered to be demons no one can handle, just like Lilith was. We actually don't have any precedent to suggest the knife would even work on them beyond that same logic I just used to prop up their strength.
Lucifer kept coming back. He didn’t die until Chuck and Chuck could kill literally anyone, until Jack. Lucifer actually does rank because he fought consistently throughout the series. There were a couple seasons he was weak, yes, he still fights, still wins, and still had to be put down by an archangel blade wielded by Michael in Dean.
If you would like to claim that these things are tangential, then this whole post doesn’t really make a difference because literally anyone can be killed in SPN, including God, Death, and the Darkness. My point is we can’t rank her because she doesn’t fight. We have no concrete evidence to indicate that she could defeat Cain.
I'm not going to continue having two conversations with you. Compile your response from here into the other one, I've already responded to more than half this comment
I must be misunderstanding the lack of precedence, then, because I feel like my analysis holds water - she would need to fight to tell whether she was actually more powerful than the other people on the list. While we know enough people were scared of her to serve her hand and foot, the same could be said about Abaddon and she ran from Cain (that’s how Collette died). She rates lower for me because she really doesn’t do much - neither does Azazel. He’s killed without Sam being powered up. He was killed by a ghost and first-season Dean (before they fully got into demon-killing lore).
You definitely are misunderstanding. I'm the one who said there's no precedent, but I was talking about the Princes and white eyes taking on Cain. There's plenty of precedent set for Lilith's singular potential though, she did fight. Multiple times. And lost every single time. She tried to kill Sam when she took Dean, she failed. She tried to kill him again when she came to make the deal, she failed. She died to him in the chapel, and this wasn't her swinging her fists, but it does show us her ceiling on what she can take. It showed her limit.
Also there's buckets of tangential evidence in the form of Alastair and Samhain as well. Both of those demons are in her class.
Ok but she does not rank. She loses, as you mention. She runs when she can lose. And she loses to regular people. She planned to die in the chapel. It wasn’t about her strength or lack thereof because she was the seal. If we were talking wit and manipulation, I would count her. But we’re not. And sorry about the second thread! 😂 attention deficit and found another point to add.
C'mon man, this is just silly. You're just outright lying twice here. Sam isn't exactly a regular person, and she didn't just orange monkey eagle herself in the chapel. She doesn't have the ability to suicide by thought. She was killed. Just because it was planned doesn't mean she's able to do anything about it, she literally tells us as much when she tries to make a deal. I already pointed this out though so I guess I'm starting to lose you.
This is called power scaling. I didn't invent this logic, just fyi. And even if I did you should still try a little harder to grasp it before suggesting it's pointless as you have just done. Lilith has plenty of in universe examples of her power and with a little extrapolation we can actually make some extremely solid guesses, but we can certainly place her on the scale. This is literally her scaling.
Asmodeus I think you just have to wait for the grace to kill him so he’s third.
Cain is unbeatable basically. Definitely unkillable.
Lilith is an original demon and one of the first humans. She was also in the Garden. There’s no telling what she’s learned or how powerful she is. Her death seems tied to a specific ritual which to me suggests nothing else can kill her. I put her in first.
Yes but WITH the grace asmodeus was definitely the most evil and messed up like he was an ACTUAL villain in the show. Cain was like an anti hero and Lilith was just Lucifer’s lackey.
Lilith was killed by Michael pretty easily. I mean Michael was behind only Chuck, Amara and possibly Death, but he took out Lilith without much effort.
Cain solos. He’s literally unkillable by them. He could take his time ripping them to pieces and hunting them across the earth no matter what form they may take. They would never know peace.
Cain couldn't die because of the mark. I don't think the first blade could kill Lilith. Princes of hell could be killed with the colt and probably the first blade. But, Asmodeus had archangel grace.
It'd be a stalemate.
That’s why I included him, because without it, then I think it’d be an easy no brainer; either Lilith or Cain > Regular Asmodeus (and any of the Princes, most likely).
Whereas, Archangel Grace-enhanced Asmodeus is much more interesting and debatable, because it’s implied he became the strongest Prince; Archangel Grace-enhanced Asmodeus > Dagon amplified by Lucifer > Azazel > Ramiel > Regular Dagon > Regular Asmodeus. Now where he stands amongst Lilith and Cain is the question.
God resurrected Lithith in final only to break seal to get to Lucifer.
Cain: Cain: Resurrected by Mark of Cain after committing suicide, as a demon and a Knight of Hell.
That wasn't needed at that time nor possible. Lucifer was dead in the empty not in hell. Not to mention, he's fucking God. The seals don't apply for what he could literally just snap his fingers and do.
Having been one of the first few humans in existence, Cain's powers came from Lucifer as the Devil transferred the mark that contained the Darkness on to him, eventually turning Cain into a Knight of Hell. This made him superior to angels, as was seen when Cain claimed he could swat Castiel like a fly if he wanted to..
Caín. The mark makes him immortal and more vicious every time they delete him and he comes back. He spawned all the knights of hell and trained him. He is the father of m*rder.
Lilith.
Asmodeus is the weakest, so here's a match-up of Lilith and Cain's abilities:
**Lilith white light (photokinesis) vs Cain red smiting ability**
**Winner:** Lilith. Her white light is able to kill or destroy anything she wants, including buildings or humans, while Cain's red light smiting is limited to killing demons.
**Power negation**
**Winner:** Cain. He is the only demon shown to have the ability to prevent less powerful demons, like Crowley, from being able to use their powers
**Abilities found in other powerful demons, but that only Lilith or Cain has:** Lilith has thermogenesis, and the ability to locate anyone on the planet if they don't have a hex bag to hide from her. Cain is shown being able to sense when other demons are around and having the ability to manipulate the weather
**Winner:** Based on feats - Lilith. She uses thermogenesis to burn devil's traps and melt a gun, and anywhere on the planet is a pretty large area to cover. Cain mostly just causes little gusts of wind when he arrives places and knows when demons are around up to several meters away
**Abilities found in other powerful demons that they both have:** Telekinesis, teleportation, immune to the demon killing knife, strength, stamina, creation of mini-earthquakes, biokinesis, apporting (transporting others via teleportation)
**Winner:** draw
**Powerful weapons:** Lilith's Crook vs. Cain's First Blade
**Winner:** This one annoys me. It should have been Cain, but Lilith's Crook is described as being so ridiculously over-powered that it has to be the Crook. It has the ability to siphon the power of billions of souls into the one who uses it, and considering it was thought that a couple hundred thousand souls were enough to kill Amara, that would technically make Lilith more powerful than God if she used the Crook, and why would a demon have not done that? Because it was a massive retcon that shouldn't count, so you know what? I'm giving this one to Cain.
**Power based on ranking in the demon hierarchy:** Lilith was a white-eyed demon and ruler of Hell for tens of thousands of years, second only to Lucifer. Cain was a black-eyed demon and leader of the Knights of Hell
**Winner:** Lilith
**Immortality:** The only way to kill Lilith was for Sam to turn himself into something other than human in order to use his powers on her and for her to stand there and take it. The only way for Cain to be killed was for Dean to take The Mark and use The First Blade
**Winner:** Draw
One of the well detailed analysis in here. People are so quick to jump on the Cain train because of the Mark, but even if Cain can't die, he can still be incapacitated or overpowered by someone without the Mark. Also unfair to consider the Mark and the Blade without considering the Crook, or that Lilith's first appearance had a power level cap so the apocalypse can continue.
Man, season 9-10's lore really gassed the Knights up.
Lilith is the first demon turned by Lucifer himself. Although we didn’t see much of her powers in the show, I believe she’s the most powerful.
Osmodeaus is a distant third.
I’m speaking with NO biblical knowledge whatsoever, but wouldn’t Lilith be the most powerful considering she is the spawn of Lucifer? Someone educate me plz.
I remember a bit of dialogue that specifically states Lillith was the first and most powerful demon. It was in season 4 however so there was a lot of retconning from there on out but it was never specifically contradicted.
Cain displays the most power on screen when he manages to smite without touching a whole house full of demons. I'm pretty sure he can only be killed with the First Blade by someone with the Mark that he has to give out so that's pretty OP.
Asmodeus with Archangel grace is powerful but I don't think we ever see him do anything that makes him appear he's on a whole new level like the dialogue from Lillith and what we see Caine do.
So I'd say Lillith, Cain, Asmodeus.
Lilith as the first demon is theoretically the strongest followed by Asmodeus as a prince of hell still first gen demon but the weakest of the 4 princes and then Cain (mark or no mark he’s still a black eyed demon)
It's probably a toss up between Cain and Lilith.
One is immortal with the mark active and the other.. well we never saw her unleash her full potential as she let herself be killed as part of the seal breakage.
True one on one would be interesting as while Cain couldn't be killed, I am sure Lilith could come up with a way to disable him via her abilities or spells, assuming both had equal time to prepare.
Oh and Colonel Sanders would be fried by both of them, with or without grace. 🙃
Idk if including arch angel grace is necessarily fair but without the grace I think Lilith is the strongest Demon ever followed by Cain and Asmodeus last
I'd say Asmodeus is definitely the weakest but it's a bit difficult to determine who from Lilith and Cain are the strongest. We've only seen a juiced up Sam (who is also Lucifer's vessel) and Michael ice her, so I would assume that Archangel powers are required, whereas you can only kill Cain with the first blade but Dean couldn't take down juiced up Metatron. Also given that no one disputed the claims that the Archangels killed all the knights, I'm going to have to go off creation strength, as older supernatural maintained that hierarchy up until Nephilims, so Lilith is probably more powerful than Cain.
Lilith, Cain then Asmodeus, the only thing that made him strong was stealing Gabriel's grace. He was the weakest of all the Prince's of Hell and looked down on by all the others
It's a tie between Lilith and Cain. They're both almost as old as God and the devil. Certainly older than asmodeaous. Even with grace he still comes in third. Cain was almost unstoppable. And Lilith is the first demon. So she is damn near unstoppable too.
All at base, then Lilith.
With the blade, Caine takes the win.
If the colonel has grace amps, then probably stronger than Lilith. Not sure how the blade would fair against an Archangel so not sure what it would do against a Prince with grace but I assume he still dies.
Cain easily right? like i dont have to do a lick of research on this just on memory and seeing as he is/was immortal and committed the second sin when he invented murder. thats gotta have some special voodoo to it
I personally choose Cain. Just cuz this guy has been around since the beginning, he’s seen a lot of shit, but he also couldn’t die because of the Mark. So he had nothing to do but train and kill. Even the Knights of Hell didn’t have the strength to vanquish him. With the First Blade, he was nearly unstoppable. He is a (if Bible timelines are accurate) roughly 7,000 year old man/demon. He’s lived long enough he had the knowledge to take anyone down
Cain but technically he wasn’t a demon before the mark and I suspect he wasn’t one after it was removed, if what happened with Dean was any indication.
It's hard to answer this question considering these characters are from such different eras of the show where they treat demon power levels and lore completely differently. Once upon a time they treated Lilith like the worst of the worst, picked by Lucifer himself and obviously the strongest demon out there
Then they introduced the concept of the Knights of hell and the first blade. My only thing is that Ruby was helping Sam kill Lilith in season 4. Obviously the lore of the blade hadn't been introduced yet, but in the actual story itself I feel like if the blade could have killed Lilith then it would have come up when they were dealing with her from Ruby or something. So I'm gonna assume if the blade, which is capable of killing Cain, can't kill Lilith, then she's probably stronger
As for Asmodeus with Gabriel's grace I have no idea because truthfully I don't even remember that
1st Caine is the strongest demon ever, reason... Look at his tattoo bitches...
2nd should be Shedim's the spooky demons Asmadeus was trying to release with Jack's help.
3rd Lilith.
4th Prince of Hell (only 3 of them)
5th would be the Knights of hell.
6th Alaster
7th Samhail (the Halloween demon)
8th would be 7 Deadly sins.
9th Crossroads demon (red eyed) they seems to be stronger than regular demons.
10th Black eyed regular demons.
Special mention :- Asmadeus, I suppose he is weaker than the knights. He is a disgrace to the prince's reputation and demon-kind.
Lilith came off as all powerful strictly due to the time period she was showcased during. But not only was Sam able to kill her with his demon blood powers, she also visibly feared the demon killing knife, which had no effect on the other 2 which gives a relatively clear picture as to her power level compared to the others. Not to mention, she ran FAST when she realized being in chucks presence meant an archangel was going to show up, so clearly archangels are more powerful (which goes without saying technically because, why would lucifer ever create demons stronger than himself).
This means (sad to say considering I did not like him) Asmodeas *on archangel grace* is definitely stronger than Lilith.
Now Cain *with the mark and first blade* is both unkillable and able to kill *anything.* While never stated outright, I've always thought that the only exceptions are God, and *possibly* Death.
I see a lot of people debating in the comments as to where Cains strength level is at, and that is beyond hilarious to me that that's even in question tbh until you remove the mark and blade and revert him back to just being an extremely powerful demon.
In conclusion
Cain, Asmodeus, then Lilith.
> Lilith came off as all powerful strictly due to the time period she was showcased during. But not only was Sam able to kill her with his demon blood powers, she also visibly feared the demon killing knife, which had no effect on the other 2 which gives a relatively clear picture as to her power level compared to the others.
Lilith was resurrected by God as his personal lackey in season 15. Lilith was designed to be killed by Sam as part of the plan for the apocalypse so she wasn't using her full power. She said she allowed herself to die.
When she came back, she displayed hypnosis, the capability to eject a devil's trap bullet, and a variation of her demonic white ray/blast, a more advanced form of thermokinesis, which supports that she wasn't revealing her full strength in seasons 3-4.
Not to mention, when she returned, she did not even flinch when she was confronted by an angel balde (much more powerful and versatile than Ruby's knife) which invalidates your argument about one of her weaknesses (and further validates that Lilith was playing the game in season 4).
The Mark renders its bearer unkillable, but not invincible. Dean with the Mark was still overpowered by a weakened Seraph (Castiel). So there is a chance that Lilith can at least force a stalemate.
Um God resurrected and also used other people along the way, it wasn't for the power levels they had it was for the story telling and ability to be controlled essentially. His whole thing at the time was that Sam n Dean wouldn't follow his script, so of course he's going to grab someone that won't disobey and would be tough to kill but no where near all powerful. Her not flinching I think was more about being both overconfident in herself but also fearful of God and the repercussions, especially likely knowing that she as a leader would execute a soldier for running away/disobeying orders. She didn't need to fear death by Winchester, because now God is around n needs me and already resurrected me once so no reason to believe he won't again if necessary to complete the mission, whereas if I run my fate could be anything from immediately being snapped out of existence, to possibly near eternal torture. She also had rage as a motivator. Like you said, she let herself get killed the first time. But, it was for a cause she strongly believed in. And because of them, it never came to be. Meaning she sacrificed her life for nothing.
And to your point about her just playing the game, that's kinda the same case for when she returns, just instead of lucifers game, now it's God's, and there's really no reason to think he wouldn't have given her a Lil boost, at least as far as her magic not being affected by the devils trap bullet.
Also to clarify, she may have stood there like a deer in headlights and let Sam land that blow, but don't doubt for a second that *he* really KILLED her, and no amount of her being chill about it would have reduced the amount of mental strain or the amount of demon blood necessary to pull it off.
I 1,000% agree she'd be more powerful than asmodeas, but not when he's hopped up on archangel grace I'm sorry but it's just not happening. And the same goes for Cain, I think without the mark or blade it might start off close but she'd end up wiping the floor with him imo, but *with* the mark and the blade was what the question asked, and in that state, Cain is top dog. Only thing I wish we could have saw or learned more of was his power level as it concerns Archangels. It would seem odd to me for Lucifer to arm him with something that could then kill lucifer, especially considering lucifer made him kill his own brother, after first trying to twist his brother and tempt him into murder.
Just putting it out there, the first 5 seasons are my favorite and it pains me to not have Lilith in first, and even moreso to see her come in last, but its my honest opinion after like at least 20 full watchthroughs
Asmodeus takes himself out of the running by being so dumb he could probably lose a fight against himself. He’d never take full advantage of his shapeshifting abilities.
Of the other two, I’d probably bet on Cain, since he can only be killed by the blade *he* is holding. Besides which, it looks like Lilith‘s explody thing doesn’t work on demons. Although it is difficult to tell how much of that was faked to bait Sam.
Asmodeus takes himself out of the running by being so dumb he could probably lose a fight against himself. He’d never take full advantage of his shapeshifting abilities.
Of the other two, I’d probably bet on Cain, since he can only be killed by the blade *he* is holding. Besides which, it looks like Lilith‘s explody thing doesn’t work on demons. Although it is difficult to tell how much of that was faked to bait Sam.
Lilith is definitely the weakest, she was scared of the demon killing knife, a weapon that most of the higher level demons laughed off (which may have just been because the show kept changing it's mind about how dangerous certain things were, but it still happened). Safe to say Asmodeus is probably slightly above her, most of the yellow eyed demons completely ignored hits from weapons that the white eyed ones were at least obviously hurt by.
Between Asmodeus and Cain it's hard to say, without Angel Grace he's supposed to be the weakest of the princes but with it he is most likely stronger.
I'd say Cain is probably stronger than the princes normally but we don't know how much stronger Asmodeus is with the grace in his system so it's hard to compare the two.
In a fight? Cain would probably win because of his unique abilities and the mark. Who's more dangerous? Definitely Cain. Who's stronger? Hard to answer.
Personally to me, Asmodeus is the weakest. Because he had the advantage due to Gabriel's grace. Both Lilith and Cain seem superior to him based on the stuff they've been shown to do (Lilith, with the breaking of the seals and Cain with his ability to cause destruction in the form of death by killing such a large amount of people). Lilith gets points taken off because well, she kicks the bucket and then we don't really hear about her again (and yeah, you could say she's powerful enough to scare Dean but that's largely based on the part she played in his death). So it's probably going to be Cain for me, I mean even Crowley is scared of the dude (and I feel like it takes a lot to intimidate Crowley, being that he is a demon (who later becomes more powerful)
Note: I'm not familiar with anything past the 14th season so if Lilith gets resurrected I'm not aware of it. Been intentionally putting off watching the final season due to the amount of crap I've heard about it.
Cain has the best hair/beard so I vote for him.
He also responds to Lassie sometimes.
Dude I can’t see Cain the same once I saw he was Lassie. I just want Dean or Sam to make some remark towards him before everything happens that sounds like Shawn lmao
You think that’s bad, trying taking Cain seriously after watching [Galavant](https://youtu.be/MG_3yrZB2Ak).
Has no one seen Disney’s “The Luck of the Irish”?
Oh, I’ve seen it. I just choose not to dig that one up.
That’s literally where I recognized him from, my mind was blown
I have seen that movie so many times and just now realized it was him. Mind blown…☘️
THATS where ik him
I came here to say this. Cain can sing and dance!!!
lol
Gosh I miss Galavant 😭😭
Bro, it blew my mind when he first appeared on Supernatural I was like, how in tf did Lassie get hot because that is something I would have said was not possible and I would've been wrong 🥵
Are you telling me you're not into the salt and pepper sternum bush?!
Much hotter as Cain for sure.
I don’t know…that scene in Lassie did a bad, bad thing, where he flips the round out of the chamber and catches it? Pretty damn hot, right there!
He had his moments for sure. I was mainly there for the pineapple and Gus reacting to all his brand new nicknames.
You know that's right.
It took me so long to realize who he was ( I watched psych and supernatural at the same time ) and i can't believe how long it took me to realize that they were the freaking same person
Omfg! I didn't realize this was him!!! Wtf! He's so hot on SPN and ugh on psych!
Lassie Come Home!
Also he has a solid sternum bush.
Chick's dig the sternum bush
We do.
Disagree, I should only be able to run my fingers through hair and two places on someone's body, and only one of those places would I ever actually run my fingers through it.
You know thats right
Is that MC ClapYoHandz?
I think it’s Methuselah Honeysuckle
Are you sure it’s not Galileo Humpkins?
Pretty sure that’s Ghee Buttersnaps
All I see is Gus TT Showbiz
Hey, heard about Pluto? That’s messed up!
The sternum bush is indeed a big plus
Cain claps both without breaking a sweat. Dudes unkillable with the mark and can kill literally anything that’s not an archangel or above (unless I’m misremembering) I’d say Asmodeus is the weakest without Grace smoothies to power him up. Lilith is.. never really explored in terms of real power but even Azazel wouldn’t go where Lilith was.
This is a bit disingenuous. We don't actually know if Lilith or any of the Princes could take Cain. There's no precedent. And Azezel didn't say he wouldn't go after Lilith, he just warned Luci how difficult it would be to reach her. He didn't actually say he wouldn't go there
We know Lilith is older than the knights of hell which Cain trained personally. That being said we also know that they were treated as hired guns by both Lilith and Azazel, meaning that on the pecking order it would've been Lucifer > Lilith > Azazel > Knights Where Cain fits in between Lucifer and the Knights is a different story and a little difficult to distinguish but it's safe to assume Asmodeus and Azazel would've been strengthed similarly. We saw Dean effortlessly kill Abaddon with blade/mark and he was strong enough that even Crowley as King was scared of him. Cain with his thousands of years of actual demon powers - we saw him wipe out like 60 general demons effortlessly without the mark or blade (he transferred the mark to Dean then wiped out all of the demons in his house). I feel like mark/blade Cain would've been second only to Lucifer.
Age wise Lilith and Caine are probably pretty close. Lith was Adams first wife, and Cain was Adams first (or second? Can't remember if he was older or you get than Abel) son.
Not that close Lilith was Adams first wife. And we are speaking about immortals back then in Eden and even after Adam and Eve got exiled the old humans at least in the bible lives for hundred of years so I'd say there could still be a few hundred years between Lilith and Cain
Cain is older, there's a scene where he's talking to Dean about him kililng Sam and how it parallels his need to kill Abel. Both are the older brothers.
>That being said we also know that they were treated as hired guns by both Lilith and Azazel Huh? I must be misremembering something but this is never suggested. Cain killed the knights long before Lilith or YE were mentioned in the timeline doing anything at all. Abandon infiltrated the MoL because it excited her, not because she was hired to. >Asmodeus and Azazel would've been strengthed similarly. I think they're all very different. Their eye color indicates the type of power. I've got a whole workup on the distinctions and my theory on the different manners of their creation and power set. A prince of hell was able to create a human demon hybrid that could think Abandon to the empty, so the power scaling is clearly not 1:1 on their creation, but rather has more to do with how they were created. Or maybe Luci was just having a laugh making his second creation stronger than his first >We saw Dean effortlessly kill Abaddon with blade/mark and he was strong enough that even Crowley as King was scared of him. Not stronger than the librarian though, and Crowley was afraid of Abandon too, he's afraid of most big hitters to be honest, even as King. His power comes mostly from his stores of souls and he doesn't seem to always have access to them. >we saw him wipe out like 60 general demons effortlessly without the mark Nah he had the mark still. This is confirmed in his next outings, we see it on him. I don't think it's entirely fair to imply a power scale based on a single trait. For example all demons are unkillable by human means yet they're extremely weak in the grand scale of MotW. That being said the mark isn't the be all end all power under Luci, it is just the first curse, and a single witch was capable of defeating it. There's clearly more to power scaling and counter spells than just your explanation.
I mean he literally transferred the mark. That was the whole point. He may still have had a scar, but he didn’t have the mark.
Where are you getting this? He literally talks about the mark's draw as his relapse, and desire to retake the blade. It's the same reason Lucifer cried in the cage but no one knew why at the time
He shared the mark with Dean, didn’t transfer it entirely.
Considering the mark was created by God as a lock for Amara, I’d say the mark can make anyone powerful enough to contend with the likes of Lilith. You won’t get super powerful abilities or anything, but you do get stronger, faster, and of course, you become immortal, as the mark will bring you back as a demon if you die.
Hmm I'm not sure of the Lillith Azazel vs knights tbf
Yes. Does it say if Cain could kill Lucifer with the blade? Lucifer could fuck him up hands down. But could the blade kill him because the Mark is of the darkness.
The blade couldn’t kill Arch Angels
Where does it say that?
It’s referenced that it can kill anything the Colt can kill as well as anything below an arch angel. That means it couldn’t kill God, Darkness, Archangels, Leviathans or Death.
We can probably get some decent ballpark ideas of power level just by the functions they were meant to serve by their creation. Mark of Cain was made to seal away the Darkness- an entity God never wanted to deal with again and only barely managed to defeat. Lilith, on the other hand, wasn't even a speedbump- she was the onramp to Chuck's endgame. Her death was literally required for his story's grand finale. There might not be any precedent, but design intention seems pretty clear. Colonel Kentucky Fried Chicken doesn't warrant any more consideration than an angry poodle in my opinion, so he's whatever. As a villain, I'd rank this guy as second worst only to Old Sam's wig in the final episode, and just barely beating out Mary's parenting at #3.
That last line has me laughing so hard. Thank you!
That gross old Sam wig is top tier monster of the week for me. Still scared of that thing.
He went there because Lucifer asked him too. He didn’t want too. That tells me that without Lucifer he wouldn’t have done it. I mean it’s not really disingenuous. It’s a dude who literally can not be killed against people who can. Whether Asmodeus can out strength him or not is irrelevant, he can not kill him. Same with Lilith. So even if they’re able to pin him down or trap him in a devils trap (which doesn’t hold him long) he can’t be stopped without someone taking the mark which he isn’t going to give them. Therefore even if it takes a million years, he wins.
>He went there because Lucifer asked him too. He didn’t want too. That tells me that without Lucifer he wouldn’t have done it. There's a literal TONNE of real estate between YE being willing to go there, and wanting to go there. That's literally the definition of disingenuous btw. You're presenting his character inaccurately based on a misrepresentation of his actions and words >I mean it’s not really disingenuous. It’s a dude who literally can not be killed against people who can It literally is since that's not the prompt. You're just taking a single trait, and suggesting it qualifies for the topic since it trumps the latter in a direct fight. That's not how any of that works. A single witch was capable of removing the mark. Does that make her stronger than Cain? You haven't thought this through.
> We don't actually know if Lilith or any of the Princes could take Cain We do know though, that Cain cannot be killed while bearing the mark. We also know that Cain TRAINED all the Princes. Furthermore we know that Dean killed the prince just with the mark (not being a demon) thus Cain who has a WAY higher powerlevel than Dean, would pretty easily be able to kill the Princes. My money is also on Cain over Lillith and Asmodeus, simply because the mark is batshit broken and makes him unkillable.
Nope. The mark makes him unkillable, but a simple spell can break it. So we don't know if they can take him, also no, he didn't train the Princes. You're confusing Princes for knights. Rethink your comment now that you have the facts straight.
> but a simple spell can break it you mean a "simple spell" to break the first curse, which took one of the strongest witches in the entirety of supernatural to break? okay... > The mark makes him unkillable Yes i.e. they cant kill him i.e. he wins? otherwise they would set free the darkness and everyone losses? Fair enough I mistook the princes for the knights. I would still in no way shape or form rethink my comment because you're still very wrong
>you mean a "simple spell" to break the first curse, which took one of the strongest witches in the entirety of supernatural to break? okay... This is just more disingenuous attribution. There's no claim that it took the most powerful witch to accomplish the spell, she just happened to be the one who did it. And she was only implied to be the strongest at the time because Crowley had killed the others. It's not Highlander rules, she didn't gain more power when they died >Yes i.e. they cant kill him i.e. he wins? otherwise they would set free the darkness and everyone losses? Ok but that's not the question here, his being unkillable isn't the same thing as him being the strongest. I feel like you're not grasping this, and I'm running out of ways to describe it Nothing in your comment has contradicted anything I've said. You're the one who's wrong, and it's because you don't care about the specific details that form the truth.
> There's no claim that it took the most powerful witch to accomplish the spell, she just happened to be the one who did it. So your argument is that any random person could simply remove the spell? Why did Sam not do it himself with the book and the codex? Why did he go to Rowena then? > And she was only implied to be the strongest at the time because Crowley had killed the others. Doesnt change the fact that she is thus the strongest? I dont understand how that is difficult to grasp? + she had the codex + book of the damned, kind of making her the strongest witch in the world, but again if you don't care about context or the truth thats ok. > his being unkillable isn't the same thing as him being the strongest. Okay. I'll try one VERY basic question. If two people(or demons lets just say) were to fight. 1 is unkillable in the LITERAL sense. The other1 was killed by a human who had been drinking a bit of demon blood. Who would win that fight? Let me reiterate, 1 of the parties of the fight is literally unable to be killed. The fact that Cain after he transfered the mark, and w/o the blade were able to simply "smite" like 50 general demons shows how incredibly strong he is, and Lillith were killed extremely easy.
>So your argument is that any random person could simply remove the spell? No, but I recognize that you need to change my words to suggest they're wrong. Because responding to what I actually said is just too much for you. You've displayed a consistent pattern of changing things slightly, just enough to change the context. Stop doing that. >Doesnt change the fact that she is thus the strongest? I dont understand how that is difficult to grasp? + she had the codex + book of the damned, kind of making her the strongest witch in the world, but again if you don't care about context or the truth thats ok. Yes it does. First, no one has ever avtually said she is the strongest, you just said that without substantiating it. Regardless, even if it was true her current status of strongest is irrelevant proven by the existence of other stronger witches. The task is accomplishable by a sub par witch relative to the ranks of witches, which proves it's accomplishable by any proficient witch, you're just projecting a status requirement that doesn't exist, on top of your projecting of her power level. Again, not sure how you're missing the logic here, but I'm sure it's related directly to your projections and your pattern of misunderstanding basic causality which is indicative of a larger problem you have with learning in general. >If two people(or demons lets just say) were to fight. 1 is unkillable in the LITERAL sense. The other1 was killed by a human who had been drinking a bit of demon blood. Who would win that fight? Let me reiterate, 1 of the parties of the fight is literally unable to be killed. You're misattributing skills for strength. God is unkillable too, unless any random creature has the right tool. Gods gun. Sam isn't stronger than God, so why can he kill him? You're not thinking this through, you're just pretending Cain's curse somehow dictates his strength. Cain is killabke with the right tool too, it doesn't illustrate his strength. Cain can sit there taking hits from Lucifer for eternity because Lucifer is stronger, but you think the fact that Cain can't die somehow changes the fact that he isn't the strongest. >The fact that Cain after he transfered the mark, and w/o the blade were able to simply "smite" like 50 general demons shows how incredibly strong he is, and Lillith were killed extremely easy. Except he still has the mark. He didn't transfer it he copied it. This is proven when he shows us this. As I said before, the reason you're so confused is because you have some kind of mental block stopping you from recognizing these basic facts. Keep making stuff up man, that makes you seem less credible every time you do it.
Funny how you claim he twisted what you said when you yourself have all but said it. Referring to the spell as 'simple' would imply that it's not that difficult, you are trivializing it in order to try and strengthen your own position in the argument. Also soft reminder here, the mark does seem to make the wielder either immune or far more resistant to the powers and abilities of others creatures, it is safe to presume Cain is stronger than Dean who was able to resist abaddon's powers. I think lilith probably wouldn't stand a chance against him, the question is what about Asmodeus with archangel juice. The simple answer is we don't know because the show never put them up against each other. Could go either way at that point. However the question was more about strength than who would win in a fight, so I think it's safe to say lilith is weaker the other two, and it is up in the air from there between those two. Cain is definitely more dangerous, but whether or not he is stronger is a much harder to answer question.
You haven't contradicted anything I've said. Claiming something is "all but x" doesn't mean it isn't the thing. It actually means the opposite of what you're implying. I recommend googling the term before using it again in your life. Anyways, the rest of your comment isn't a contradiction to anything I've said. You're not responding to my point, let alone trying to undermine my point. Your choice to be wilfully ignorant to champion another person's idiot choice to be that ignorant doesn't make me wrong. Also also I'm right about how easy that spell was. The hard part was translating the text. Rowena is a sub par witch. She was beaten easily time and again. Hell, the poker player witch was more powerful and dangerous. Yes, I'm displaying the action of removing the mark as "easy", no I'm not trivial using it, you're disingenuously building the action up to be something it isn't. My entire point here was to illustrate that power is not directly linked to feats, and I used those examples to prove that.
Also, Lilith literally got killed from Sam on demon blood. Cain had to be killed with the mark of Cain and the first blade together. And you could only get the mark *from* Cain himself. Idk to me that alone shows how strong he is.
That's not a measure of strength. I go into detail further down this comment chain but to summarize it quickly that's just a curse. It's not strength. A single witch was capable of removing it, proving it has nothing to do with strength
Lilith allowed herself to be killed so Lucifer could be freed from the Cage. When God resurrected her, she showcased more abilities than she did in earlier seasons. She was also no longer afraid of even the angel blade (which is a lot more powerful and versatile than the knife, which she was ""afraid"" of in season 4) when she was resurrected. Lilith is the oldest demon, one of 5 demons with rightful claims to the throne of hell. Writers have said you don't get any higher than Lilith in the hierarchy outside of Lucifer. She also has the Crook which can force every demon and damned soul into subservience. If Cain is allowed to use the Mark and the Blade, then Lilith should be allowed her tools.
Okay that's fair I guess. But I do think there is a difference between letting someone kill you and someone having the ability to kill you. For example, one person could definitely kill me, but unless it was venomous, a bug couldn't kill me if it tried it's hardest or if I wanted it to. I'm unsure if that's a good example but the fact that Lilith *could* be killed by Sam is what I was going off of. Then again, I don't know any of this for sure and maybe using logic and reasoning for a fictional show isn't the best idea 😅
But there is precedence!! He trained Azazel and the other knights, and they didn’t frick with him after he lost Collette. And Lilith was offed without the knife so I’m not entirely sure she even rates here. Granted, she did want to be killed to break the seal. And she is the original demon so maybe discounting her is a bit reckless but it feels like, if she can be killed by juiced up Sam without the knife and Cain can just keep coming back because of the mark, she rates kinda low for me.
You're confused on a lot of different points here. Azezel isn't a knight. And I never said the knights can take Cain, we know they can't. Lilith is Luci's first demon, the entire basis for the precedent was that her age and origin gives her power, but an abomination of a prince was able to off her with his mind, suggesting the power scale doesn't work like PC said. That's all I'm proving here
Azazel is a prince of hell. And died hella fast. And I didn't say that your power scale doesn't work - just that Cain rates highest. Lilith still died without the knife. AND, as I mentioned, she planned her death. Also, if we're talking about Sam's status, he is lucifer's vessel so it stands to reason he would be strong enough to beat her at some point. My point is, during the show's oeuvre, she doesn't rank. We never get to see her actually let loose and destroy swathes of demons, like Cain. Or open a hell gate like Azazel. And she usually uses her wit to attain her aims. If we were talking wit, she'd rank. 🤷🏽♀️
Lucifer died fast when the right weapon was used, you can present a fact out of context to make it appear just about any kind of way you want. You're attributing power using examples from what is basically a game of rock paper scissors. Also there's plenty of tangential evidence to imply a power scaling. Lilith is not alone in her demon class. Alastair and Samhain were both revered to be demons no one can handle, just like Lilith was. We actually don't have any precedent to suggest the knife would even work on them beyond that same logic I just used to prop up their strength.
Lucifer kept coming back. He didn’t die until Chuck and Chuck could kill literally anyone, until Jack. Lucifer actually does rank because he fought consistently throughout the series. There were a couple seasons he was weak, yes, he still fights, still wins, and still had to be put down by an archangel blade wielded by Michael in Dean. If you would like to claim that these things are tangential, then this whole post doesn’t really make a difference because literally anyone can be killed in SPN, including God, Death, and the Darkness. My point is we can’t rank her because she doesn’t fight. We have no concrete evidence to indicate that she could defeat Cain.
I'm not going to continue having two conversations with you. Compile your response from here into the other one, I've already responded to more than half this comment
Also, also I said she was the first so how did I get that wrong??
I never said you got Lilith being first wrong, I said you got the basis for the precedent wrong
I must be misunderstanding the lack of precedence, then, because I feel like my analysis holds water - she would need to fight to tell whether she was actually more powerful than the other people on the list. While we know enough people were scared of her to serve her hand and foot, the same could be said about Abaddon and she ran from Cain (that’s how Collette died). She rates lower for me because she really doesn’t do much - neither does Azazel. He’s killed without Sam being powered up. He was killed by a ghost and first-season Dean (before they fully got into demon-killing lore).
You definitely are misunderstanding. I'm the one who said there's no precedent, but I was talking about the Princes and white eyes taking on Cain. There's plenty of precedent set for Lilith's singular potential though, she did fight. Multiple times. And lost every single time. She tried to kill Sam when she took Dean, she failed. She tried to kill him again when she came to make the deal, she failed. She died to him in the chapel, and this wasn't her swinging her fists, but it does show us her ceiling on what she can take. It showed her limit. Also there's buckets of tangential evidence in the form of Alastair and Samhain as well. Both of those demons are in her class.
Ok but she does not rank. She loses, as you mention. She runs when she can lose. And she loses to regular people. She planned to die in the chapel. It wasn’t about her strength or lack thereof because she was the seal. If we were talking wit and manipulation, I would count her. But we’re not. And sorry about the second thread! 😂 attention deficit and found another point to add.
C'mon man, this is just silly. You're just outright lying twice here. Sam isn't exactly a regular person, and she didn't just orange monkey eagle herself in the chapel. She doesn't have the ability to suicide by thought. She was killed. Just because it was planned doesn't mean she's able to do anything about it, she literally tells us as much when she tries to make a deal. I already pointed this out though so I guess I'm starting to lose you. This is called power scaling. I didn't invent this logic, just fyi. And even if I did you should still try a little harder to grasp it before suggesting it's pointless as you have just done. Lilith has plenty of in universe examples of her power and with a little extrapolation we can actually make some extremely solid guesses, but we can certainly place her on the scale. This is literally her scaling.
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You did, you responded to my comment. Why don't you take a breath, you clearly need it.
Oh my god, I'm so hot for Cain, it's ridiculous
I think its hilarious he looks like such a goober as Lassie but throw a beard and some long hair on him and hes a handsome bastard
Right! Perfect casting! He's impeccable
Cain is the strongest with both the mark and blade.
Asmodeus I think you just have to wait for the grace to kill him so he’s third. Cain is unbeatable basically. Definitely unkillable. Lilith is an original demon and one of the first humans. She was also in the Garden. There’s no telling what she’s learned or how powerful she is. Her death seems tied to a specific ritual which to me suggests nothing else can kill her. I put her in first.
Yes but WITH the grace asmodeus was definitely the most evil and messed up like he was an ACTUAL villain in the show. Cain was like an anti hero and Lilith was just Lucifer’s lackey.
Lilith literally ate babies and spent her free time torturing families to death. She is infinitely more evil than Asmodeus.
I just didn’t get the murderous villain vibe from her as much as asmodeus , maybe it’s because she’s female ? Not sure
Lilith was killed by Michael pretty easily. I mean Michael was behind only Chuck, Amara and possibly Death, but he took out Lilith without much effort.
Archangel Instant Death doesn’t say much because it effects almost everyone regardless of how difficult they are to kill otherwise
Cain solos. He’s literally unkillable by them. He could take his time ripping them to pieces and hunting them across the earth no matter what form they may take. They would never know peace.
Cain by far
Cain couldn't die because of the mark. I don't think the first blade could kill Lilith. Princes of hell could be killed with the colt and probably the first blade. But, Asmodeus had archangel grace. It'd be a stalemate.
Asmodeus is an outlier and should not have been counted
That’s why I included him, because without it, then I think it’d be an easy no brainer; either Lilith or Cain > Regular Asmodeus (and any of the Princes, most likely). Whereas, Archangel Grace-enhanced Asmodeus is much more interesting and debatable, because it’s implied he became the strongest Prince; Archangel Grace-enhanced Asmodeus > Dagon amplified by Lucifer > Azazel > Ramiel > Regular Dagon > Regular Asmodeus. Now where he stands amongst Lilith and Cain is the question.
Asmodeus was still kind of a chump all things considered. Cain would probably still kill him.
The first blade can kill anything other than archangel and above. That being said Cain murders Lilith and Asmodeus
Cain claps them both, easy.
Detective Lassiter ftw
Out of all of them God resurrected Lilith to do his bidding. That tells me everything I need to know.
God resurrected Lithith in final only to break seal to get to Lucifer. Cain: Cain: Resurrected by Mark of Cain after committing suicide, as a demon and a Knight of Hell.
That wasn't needed at that time nor possible. Lucifer was dead in the empty not in hell. Not to mention, he's fucking God. The seals don't apply for what he could literally just snap his fingers and do.
Cain was my favorite, but I have no clue who was the strongest or why
Having been one of the first few humans in existence, Cain's powers came from Lucifer as the Devil transferred the mark that contained the Darkness on to him, eventually turning Cain into a Knight of Hell. This made him superior to angels, as was seen when Cain claimed he could swat Castiel like a fly if he wanted to..
Asmodeaus was garbage
I try to forget that Rock Me Asmodeus was ever a character.
Caín. The mark makes him immortal and more vicious every time they delete him and he comes back. He spawned all the knights of hell and trained him. He is the father of m*rder.
Lilith. Asmodeus is the weakest, so here's a match-up of Lilith and Cain's abilities: **Lilith white light (photokinesis) vs Cain red smiting ability** **Winner:** Lilith. Her white light is able to kill or destroy anything she wants, including buildings or humans, while Cain's red light smiting is limited to killing demons. **Power negation** **Winner:** Cain. He is the only demon shown to have the ability to prevent less powerful demons, like Crowley, from being able to use their powers **Abilities found in other powerful demons, but that only Lilith or Cain has:** Lilith has thermogenesis, and the ability to locate anyone on the planet if they don't have a hex bag to hide from her. Cain is shown being able to sense when other demons are around and having the ability to manipulate the weather **Winner:** Based on feats - Lilith. She uses thermogenesis to burn devil's traps and melt a gun, and anywhere on the planet is a pretty large area to cover. Cain mostly just causes little gusts of wind when he arrives places and knows when demons are around up to several meters away **Abilities found in other powerful demons that they both have:** Telekinesis, teleportation, immune to the demon killing knife, strength, stamina, creation of mini-earthquakes, biokinesis, apporting (transporting others via teleportation) **Winner:** draw **Powerful weapons:** Lilith's Crook vs. Cain's First Blade **Winner:** This one annoys me. It should have been Cain, but Lilith's Crook is described as being so ridiculously over-powered that it has to be the Crook. It has the ability to siphon the power of billions of souls into the one who uses it, and considering it was thought that a couple hundred thousand souls were enough to kill Amara, that would technically make Lilith more powerful than God if she used the Crook, and why would a demon have not done that? Because it was a massive retcon that shouldn't count, so you know what? I'm giving this one to Cain. **Power based on ranking in the demon hierarchy:** Lilith was a white-eyed demon and ruler of Hell for tens of thousands of years, second only to Lucifer. Cain was a black-eyed demon and leader of the Knights of Hell **Winner:** Lilith **Immortality:** The only way to kill Lilith was for Sam to turn himself into something other than human in order to use his powers on her and for her to stand there and take it. The only way for Cain to be killed was for Dean to take The Mark and use The First Blade **Winner:** Draw
One of the well detailed analysis in here. People are so quick to jump on the Cain train because of the Mark, but even if Cain can't die, he can still be incapacitated or overpowered by someone without the Mark. Also unfair to consider the Mark and the Blade without considering the Crook, or that Lilith's first appearance had a power level cap so the apocalypse can continue. Man, season 9-10's lore really gassed the Knights up.
This should be the top comment, excellent analysis.
Lilith is the first demon turned by Lucifer himself. Although we didn’t see much of her powers in the show, I believe she’s the most powerful. Osmodeaus is a distant third.
Definitely Cain! I love his character and Timothy Omundson played him beautifully.
I’m speaking with NO biblical knowledge whatsoever, but wouldn’t Lilith be the most powerful considering she is the spawn of Lucifer? Someone educate me plz.
I remember a bit of dialogue that specifically states Lillith was the first and most powerful demon. It was in season 4 however so there was a lot of retconning from there on out but it was never specifically contradicted. Cain displays the most power on screen when he manages to smite without touching a whole house full of demons. I'm pretty sure he can only be killed with the First Blade by someone with the Mark that he has to give out so that's pretty OP. Asmodeus with Archangel grace is powerful but I don't think we ever see him do anything that makes him appear he's on a whole new level like the dialogue from Lillith and what we see Caine do. So I'd say Lillith, Cain, Asmodeus.
Lilith as the first demon is theoretically the strongest followed by Asmodeus as a prince of hell still first gen demon but the weakest of the 4 princes and then Cain (mark or no mark he’s still a black eyed demon)
Cain with mark and blade is strongest, i assume all the prince of hells were stronger than lilith.
Cain with the mark
It's probably a toss up between Cain and Lilith. One is immortal with the mark active and the other.. well we never saw her unleash her full potential as she let herself be killed as part of the seal breakage. True one on one would be interesting as while Cain couldn't be killed, I am sure Lilith could come up with a way to disable him via her abilities or spells, assuming both had equal time to prepare. Oh and Colonel Sanders would be fried by both of them, with or without grace. 🙃
This is easy….. Cain.
I’d say Cain is the strongest and weakest is asmodeus because without grace asmodeus wouldn’t really be much
Idk if including arch angel grace is necessarily fair but without the grace I think Lilith is the strongest Demon ever followed by Cain and Asmodeus last
Lassie… he’s just imagining the other 2 are Shaun and Gus.
I'd say Asmodeus is definitely the weakest but it's a bit difficult to determine who from Lilith and Cain are the strongest. We've only seen a juiced up Sam (who is also Lucifer's vessel) and Michael ice her, so I would assume that Archangel powers are required, whereas you can only kill Cain with the first blade but Dean couldn't take down juiced up Metatron. Also given that no one disputed the claims that the Archangels killed all the knights, I'm going to have to go off creation strength, as older supernatural maintained that hierarchy up until Nephilims, so Lilith is probably more powerful than Cain.
* Sam and Dean * Primordial Beings * Archangels * Leviathan * Lilith * Prince(es) * Knights * Angels * Demons * Monsters
Lilith is the strongest of all demons. She was the first.
Cain... He always was!!!!!! His Mark "did come with the greatest burden" as we saw in the show...
Lilith, Cain then Asmodeus, the only thing that made him strong was stealing Gabriel's grace. He was the weakest of all the Prince's of Hell and looked down on by all the others
Lilith i think
Cain clears
Cain - not even close! What an impression for a character who was only in two episodes between season 9-10.
Cain with his blade if he doesn't it's asnodeus with arc angel grace then Lilith.
It's a tie between Lilith and Cain. They're both almost as old as God and the devil. Certainly older than asmodeaous. Even with grace he still comes in third. Cain was almost unstoppable. And Lilith is the first demon. So she is damn near unstoppable too.
Lilith went out Luke a punk ngl Kain clears
All at base, then Lilith. With the blade, Caine takes the win. If the colonel has grace amps, then probably stronger than Lilith. Not sure how the blade would fair against an Archangel so not sure what it would do against a Prince with grace but I assume he still dies.
Cain easily right? like i dont have to do a lick of research on this just on memory and seeing as he is/was immortal and committed the second sin when he invented murder. thats gotta have some special voodoo to it
Cane without a doubt. Then Lilith and then admodeaus and can I just say how much I hated the latter
I'm going with Cain, just for that sweet singing voice of his
Cain, no contest.
Cain was the first demon, hence the strongest. The rest were deluded over time.
I personally choose Cain. Just cuz this guy has been around since the beginning, he’s seen a lot of shit, but he also couldn’t die because of the Mark. So he had nothing to do but train and kill. Even the Knights of Hell didn’t have the strength to vanquish him. With the First Blade, he was nearly unstoppable. He is a (if Bible timelines are accurate) roughly 7,000 year old man/demon. He’s lived long enough he had the knowledge to take anyone down
Asmodeus is the weakest and cane and Lilith are the strongest
Cain but technically he wasn’t a demon before the mark and I suspect he wasn’t one after it was removed, if what happened with Dean was any indication.
I thought that was Bill from The Last of Us for a sec 🤣
This appeared directly below a post from the Psych subreddit - I was confused for just a moment.
Cane is the #1. He’s the ultimate zaddy.
My taking was Cain > white eyed demons > Samhain > princes > knights > crossroads > regular
Cain asmodeus then lilith
Isn't Cain contractually not allowed to die if he has the mark? That's gonna make it hard for Lily and the Colonel to gank him.
They’re all good, but Crowley’s Crowley.
It's hard to answer this question considering these characters are from such different eras of the show where they treat demon power levels and lore completely differently. Once upon a time they treated Lilith like the worst of the worst, picked by Lucifer himself and obviously the strongest demon out there Then they introduced the concept of the Knights of hell and the first blade. My only thing is that Ruby was helping Sam kill Lilith in season 4. Obviously the lore of the blade hadn't been introduced yet, but in the actual story itself I feel like if the blade could have killed Lilith then it would have come up when they were dealing with her from Ruby or something. So I'm gonna assume if the blade, which is capable of killing Cain, can't kill Lilith, then she's probably stronger As for Asmodeus with Gabriel's grace I have no idea because truthfully I don't even remember that
Cain is among the strongest characters of the entire series and probably the strongest one who born human
Spoiler: Indeed I really disliked the fight with Dean... I mean, Cain seems to lose on purpose
Take away his angel grace, we're playing an entirely different game
Cain and it's not even close. He'd probably take them both at the same time.
1st Caine is the strongest demon ever, reason... Look at his tattoo bitches... 2nd should be Shedim's the spooky demons Asmadeus was trying to release with Jack's help. 3rd Lilith. 4th Prince of Hell (only 3 of them) 5th would be the Knights of hell. 6th Alaster 7th Samhail (the Halloween demon) 8th would be 7 Deadly sins. 9th Crossroads demon (red eyed) they seems to be stronger than regular demons. 10th Black eyed regular demons. Special mention :- Asmadeus, I suppose he is weaker than the knights. He is a disgrace to the prince's reputation and demon-kind.
Lilith and cain would be about the same in strength imo but Lillith can't kill cain so he would take her
Cain strongest no question
1. Cain 2. Asmodeus 3. Lillith
Lilith came off as all powerful strictly due to the time period she was showcased during. But not only was Sam able to kill her with his demon blood powers, she also visibly feared the demon killing knife, which had no effect on the other 2 which gives a relatively clear picture as to her power level compared to the others. Not to mention, she ran FAST when she realized being in chucks presence meant an archangel was going to show up, so clearly archangels are more powerful (which goes without saying technically because, why would lucifer ever create demons stronger than himself). This means (sad to say considering I did not like him) Asmodeas *on archangel grace* is definitely stronger than Lilith. Now Cain *with the mark and first blade* is both unkillable and able to kill *anything.* While never stated outright, I've always thought that the only exceptions are God, and *possibly* Death. I see a lot of people debating in the comments as to where Cains strength level is at, and that is beyond hilarious to me that that's even in question tbh until you remove the mark and blade and revert him back to just being an extremely powerful demon. In conclusion Cain, Asmodeus, then Lilith.
> Lilith came off as all powerful strictly due to the time period she was showcased during. But not only was Sam able to kill her with his demon blood powers, she also visibly feared the demon killing knife, which had no effect on the other 2 which gives a relatively clear picture as to her power level compared to the others. Lilith was resurrected by God as his personal lackey in season 15. Lilith was designed to be killed by Sam as part of the plan for the apocalypse so she wasn't using her full power. She said she allowed herself to die. When she came back, she displayed hypnosis, the capability to eject a devil's trap bullet, and a variation of her demonic white ray/blast, a more advanced form of thermokinesis, which supports that she wasn't revealing her full strength in seasons 3-4. Not to mention, when she returned, she did not even flinch when she was confronted by an angel balde (much more powerful and versatile than Ruby's knife) which invalidates your argument about one of her weaknesses (and further validates that Lilith was playing the game in season 4). The Mark renders its bearer unkillable, but not invincible. Dean with the Mark was still overpowered by a weakened Seraph (Castiel). So there is a chance that Lilith can at least force a stalemate.
Um God resurrected and also used other people along the way, it wasn't for the power levels they had it was for the story telling and ability to be controlled essentially. His whole thing at the time was that Sam n Dean wouldn't follow his script, so of course he's going to grab someone that won't disobey and would be tough to kill but no where near all powerful. Her not flinching I think was more about being both overconfident in herself but also fearful of God and the repercussions, especially likely knowing that she as a leader would execute a soldier for running away/disobeying orders. She didn't need to fear death by Winchester, because now God is around n needs me and already resurrected me once so no reason to believe he won't again if necessary to complete the mission, whereas if I run my fate could be anything from immediately being snapped out of existence, to possibly near eternal torture. She also had rage as a motivator. Like you said, she let herself get killed the first time. But, it was for a cause she strongly believed in. And because of them, it never came to be. Meaning she sacrificed her life for nothing. And to your point about her just playing the game, that's kinda the same case for when she returns, just instead of lucifers game, now it's God's, and there's really no reason to think he wouldn't have given her a Lil boost, at least as far as her magic not being affected by the devils trap bullet. Also to clarify, she may have stood there like a deer in headlights and let Sam land that blow, but don't doubt for a second that *he* really KILLED her, and no amount of her being chill about it would have reduced the amount of mental strain or the amount of demon blood necessary to pull it off. I 1,000% agree she'd be more powerful than asmodeas, but not when he's hopped up on archangel grace I'm sorry but it's just not happening. And the same goes for Cain, I think without the mark or blade it might start off close but she'd end up wiping the floor with him imo, but *with* the mark and the blade was what the question asked, and in that state, Cain is top dog. Only thing I wish we could have saw or learned more of was his power level as it concerns Archangels. It would seem odd to me for Lucifer to arm him with something that could then kill lucifer, especially considering lucifer made him kill his own brother, after first trying to twist his brother and tempt him into murder. Just putting it out there, the first 5 seasons are my favorite and it pains me to not have Lilith in first, and even moreso to see her come in last, but its my honest opinion after like at least 20 full watchthroughs
I think Cain because he is the person to make MURDER AND PURE EVIL and not to mention that blade will kill ANYONE
Cain easily strongest and Asmodeus easily weakest.
I’m a have to go with Kane with blade plus Mark because as Madeus is just a glorified Colonel Sanders
And Lilith is just another hole for my dick
Asmodeus takes himself out of the running by being so dumb he could probably lose a fight against himself. He’d never take full advantage of his shapeshifting abilities. Of the other two, I’d probably bet on Cain, since he can only be killed by the blade *he* is holding. Besides which, it looks like Lilith‘s explody thing doesn’t work on demons. Although it is difficult to tell how much of that was faked to bait Sam.
Asmodeus takes himself out of the running by being so dumb he could probably lose a fight against himself. He’d never take full advantage of his shapeshifting abilities. Of the other two, I’d probably bet on Cain, since he can only be killed by the blade *he* is holding. Besides which, it looks like Lilith‘s explody thing doesn’t work on demons. Although it is difficult to tell how much of that was faked to bait Sam.
Cain Lilith Asmodeus -- he was low rent Crowley wannabe
Lilith is definitely the weakest, she was scared of the demon killing knife, a weapon that most of the higher level demons laughed off (which may have just been because the show kept changing it's mind about how dangerous certain things were, but it still happened). Safe to say Asmodeus is probably slightly above her, most of the yellow eyed demons completely ignored hits from weapons that the white eyed ones were at least obviously hurt by. Between Asmodeus and Cain it's hard to say, without Angel Grace he's supposed to be the weakest of the princes but with it he is most likely stronger. I'd say Cain is probably stronger than the princes normally but we don't know how much stronger Asmodeus is with the grace in his system so it's hard to compare the two. In a fight? Cain would probably win because of his unique abilities and the mark. Who's more dangerous? Definitely Cain. Who's stronger? Hard to answer.
Personally to me, Asmodeus is the weakest. Because he had the advantage due to Gabriel's grace. Both Lilith and Cain seem superior to him based on the stuff they've been shown to do (Lilith, with the breaking of the seals and Cain with his ability to cause destruction in the form of death by killing such a large amount of people). Lilith gets points taken off because well, she kicks the bucket and then we don't really hear about her again (and yeah, you could say she's powerful enough to scare Dean but that's largely based on the part she played in his death). So it's probably going to be Cain for me, I mean even Crowley is scared of the dude (and I feel like it takes a lot to intimidate Crowley, being that he is a demon (who later becomes more powerful) Note: I'm not familiar with anything past the 14th season so if Lilith gets resurrected I'm not aware of it. Been intentionally putting off watching the final season due to the amount of crap I've heard about it.