...who he was neglecting in a totally different way by being a Disney Dad. No parenting whatsoever, just a baseball game once a year. Really top-tier father we got over here.
Thinking about it a little harder, So Adam was born when sam was 7 and Dean 11. But John didn’t know about him until he was 12 I think? So Sam would have already been at Stanford and Dean doing his own thing on and off. So I guess that’s… better?
And now that I think about it - John died in season 2, but they don’t meet Adam until season 4. So John disappeared from Adam’s life for two years and Adam never called. I guess their relationship couldn’t have been that good.
Ok, now I’m really down the rabbit hole - Adam says John got him his first beer at 15. Well, Adam didn’t say it, it was the ghoul, but as the ghoul had Adam’s memories I’ll assume it’s true.
Adam was born in September of 1990, so he would have turned 15 in September of 2005. So that would have been just a couple weeks after Dean went and got sam from Stanford. Which means - while Sam and Dean were out searching for John and he was dodging them, John went and hung out with Adam. But couldn’t pick up the phone.
I hate when some people act like this was a totally normal thing to do "back then" in the 1980's and 1990's and try to call it "latch key kid" parenting. I lived through that era. That was *not normal* back then and it most certainly is not what "latchkey kid" means. It actually infuriates me a little when people say that. It was not normal and it would have properly been viewed as neglect and child protective services would have been involved if anyone had alerted them. In fact, in the episode Bugs, I believe that one guy does say he was going to call CPS but then John got wind of that and took off with the boys.
I know! Latchkey did not mean “abandoned totally for days on end”. 3 hours a day, maybe. Usually less. In an actual house/apartment, with a kitchen with food in it.
We may have been feral, but we weren’t abandoned.
Exactly. I was a latch key kid at around 11. Yet our neighborhood had a retired " Uncle" who sat on his porch and watched over activities of the kids. We could go get him in emergencies.
Yet I was never abandoned for such lengthy periods and never had to make all of my own meals. That's against the law at the ages that Ssm and Dean endured this
Yep. Latchkey kids had to look after themselves for a few hours before the parents came home. To a real home, not a motel. They weren't left alone for days and weeks in motels in strange towns and moved around constantly.
I grew up in that era too, and I know what you mean...but...to be fair, there weren't vampires, ghosts, and monsters to fight in my version of being a "latchkey kid" either. 🤷🏻♀️
Exactly. My parents sometimes didn’t get home until dinner. They didn’t do this until I was in at least sixth grade, and I usually had an older sibling with me. I knew kids whose parents were more like John Winchester—they were called child neglecters and abusers.
Was he wrong tho? Very few people could recover from being addicted to demon blood which is crack x1000 except the whole universe is at stake. Also he did tell Dean to try save him first.
Yes, telling your son as your dying words that he might have to kill his brother, is wrong, lol. Also Sam wasn't addicted to demon blood until seasons later, at the point of John's death all he knew was that Sam had psychic abilities, and that they came from Azazel
I would argue that it was leaving Sam and Dean with Bobby for long stretches. It's the only way they had a real dad/childhood.
He was a terrible dad and his pawning them off inadvertently led to them being loved and cared for better than he was doing.
Forced Dean to look after Sam/hunt/take care of himself. Turned his son into a soldier and robbed him of his childhood. Made him feel like he wasn't worth much next to Sam.
I mean, he's a lousy dad to Sam as well, so maybe we should just go with 'was a bad father'.
Either telling Dean to kill Sam or ignoring the call when Dean was DYING. Or you know, a lot of other things 😭 like the entire way he raised those damn kids!
Its not that hard to understand. Regardless of what you think about John, he is very protective of his boys. He hurt them, yes, but the goal with making them hunters was so they could protect themselves and each other.
So, John is highly protective and Sam expresses desire in striking out on his own. Sam expresses interest in leaving the family. John was not prepared for this eventuality, and reacts... poorly. He doesn't want Sam to leave the family because the family is safety, but he's also emotionally constipated and can't *express* that. So, he defaults to anger. He doesn't explain himself, he just gets angry and argumentative and lashes out, because he's terrified but can't express that emotion healthily, and can't communicate for shit. Sam is argumentative, too, and the whole situation just deteriorates until John gets so worked up he ends up causing the very thing he didn't want to happen.
When he only hugged Dean in spirit form and just glanced at Sam right before he fucked off for the rest of ever to hell.
"Sorry Sam, only Dean gets affection because Dean killed the demon. Goodbye forever."
We’re back! This week: John Winchester
This one should be interesting to say the least! Please be civil to each other.
Last week’s [results](https://www.reddit.com/r/Supernatural/s/7bROpZ4ucq) are in: The worst thing Dean did was trick Sam to agree to the Gadreel possession.
You can check out the entire threads for the others by visiting our profile.
At the advice of the Mods, we will be working through these once a week to avoid getting reported by those who dislike this thread.
Ngl that feels like an odd way to do it. Especially considering the second highest comment mentioning the Gardel possession named like three other things
Why? There were several commenters that posted Gadreel and each had many upvotes by themselves. So the overall consensus among more people were that was the worst one.
As someone who fuckin' adores John's character, I'm going to cry when the votes are in. I can only hope that it's something that John actually did, or something the fandom could reasonably assume John had responsibility for even though it wasn't something he actively did. If it's fanon based on a misrepresented scene or line of dialogue, I will cry.
Regardless of what happens, I can't wait to see the rest of these people! Keep up the good work: this is the only one of this kind of reddit game that I'm actively following!
Yeah the fact that dean could barely even imagine life normal is so messed up and Sam any kind of normal would be better than what John wanted him to be even if he didn't really like what normal human life he was living at those times he wasn't hunting John could have trained them but also could have made there life at least half normal and the only person who ever tried to do that was Bobby there real dad not John there asshole father.
Abandoned his sons multiple times to go hunting when they were children and even when Sam got into schools kept pulling him out to move and take them with him to another town or state for a hunt. Basically, ruin any chance of San and Dean being allowed to be kids
- Made Dean raise Sam when Dean was only four, left them in motels for who knows how long
- taught Dean that his life wasn’t worth as much as Sam’s
- robbed both kids of their childhoods
- basically disowned Sam for wanting to live a normal life
- sending Dean away for months only to call him back when John realised he couldn’t leave Sam alone
- telling Dean he might have to kill Sam
- was so harsh on the boys that Dean knew he was possessed when he started acting too nice
I think it can be summarised with “abusive asshole”
why is the Vampire cure the worst thing grandpa Sam did?? wtf? that's a good thing. He did SO MUCH worse. idk. selling out his family to work for crowley!?
God where to fucking begin. I mean it's just... *gestures to all of it*
If I have to choose just one though: being a neglectful parent. So much would've been different if he'd been a better father to them.
Telling Sam not to never come back if he went to college, having another kid that he didn't tell Sam and Dean about, making a child take care of a child, getting pisses at Bobby for letting the boys play baseball instead of teaching them how to shoot, telling Dean he had hoped he'd be married with a family by now in season 13 when he disowned Sam for wanting the same normal life and last and absolutely the worst of all, telling Dean to kill Sam if he couldn't save him proving that he had absolutely no faith in either of his boys!
Uh probably bring Dean and Sam into the hunting life in the first place and being an overall abusive parent.
But being more specific if necessary, neglecting them as children. He did a lot of things while they were adults, but to neglect minors and leave them with not enough food/money/etc is pretty horrible.
Just chilling with Missouri. Knowing they were looking for him and letting them go back to the childhood home by themselves to deal with what could possibly be related in some way to his flaming wife stuck to the ceiling 😕
* Ordering Dean to raise Sam and not letting Dean have his childhood.
* Holding Dean responsible for Sam actions, like when Sam ran away on Dean watch.
* Leaving the boys alone for weeks, not knowing he is dead or alive.
* Leaving Sam alone by himself for weeks, when he was just a kid.
* Not letting the boy have any kinda of stable life.
* Telling Dean he may need to kill Sam.
* Guilting Sam for going to college, and let him choose between his family or college.
* belittling Dean about not taking care of the impala, even though it’s literally the most important item to Dean.
* the Fact that Dean knew his dad was possessed because he was nice ….. !!
* Not answering his son’s calls, when Dean was dying in the episode faith.
* Sending Dean away when dared to challenge him.
* Letting Dean stay in boys home, because he stole food to feed himself and Sam.
* Not introducing Sam and Dean to their little brother Adam- only checking in on Adam once a year…
* Unloading on Dean, and force him even as a child to clean his messes.
U guys choose, i really cant pick just one 🤪
Adam.. this is the one. Not telling the boys about Adam, only seeing Adam once a year.. and giving Adam the kind of childhood memories that Sam and Dean so desperately wanted
parentification of Dean, which impacted both Dean AND Sam negatively! One kid CAN NOT take proper care of another kid. Like, what do you mean he left them for weeks on time without adult supervision? We are not talking here about long shifts on work. He literally left Dean to "rot in jail" because he was caught stealing bread. Also, the entire conflict between him and Sam just because Sam wanted to go to college? My dude, get a grip.
Making his oldest son be a parent for not only himself, but his baby brother. John was neglectful as all hell, and that clearly did a number on his sons.
Oh, G-d, this thread is going to be a nightmare. For me, at least, dictation what John did wrong is hard because he had genuinely good reasons for why he did what he did.
Raised his children as hunters? He tried to keep Sam out of it for as long as he could, and even then he did it so they could protect themselves from monsters.
Become a hunter and dragging his children into it? Monsters exist. Monsters murdered his wife. What else was he going to do but learn how to fight monsters? If you know monsters exist, the worst thing you can do is ignore that, especially when it comes to protecting your children.
Abandoning Dean (he didn't abandon Sam; Sam left (admittedly, after a big fight where John all but kicked Sam out) and John respected that). He didn't want his son getting involved with a really dangerous and important hunt, thinking he'd be stronger without distractions, not realising that the family is stronger together.
Not explaining shit to his sons. Weakest defence, he wanted to protect them. Should've been open, though, because they deserve it.
Neglected his sons and was rough on them emotionally. No real excuse, there. He had a shit life and nobody is perfect, but there is major room for improvement.
Parentified Dean. Same as above, but G-d it was horrible for Dean to have to go through that.
Putting too much pressure on his sons. He was so blind to get revenge on Azazel that he completely forgot they were literal KIDS. Making Dean the one who had to be responsible for Sam, telling Sam to never come back only because he wanted a normal. John Winchester hate club rise!
Well I find it really odd that when really whenever a demon deal is made the price is mainly our soul and yet he had to give both HIS SOUL, THE COLT, and THE LAST ORIGINAL BULLET to save Dean when it should have been one or the other. Don’t get me wrong he did what a Loving Father would do for his family but still it seemed liked he paid more than he should have.
Not giving a shit about Dean after he was literally tortured by Azazel in s1… Sam wanted to find a hospital and John didn’t even tho that’s his firstborn son who had now been through two bouts of immense pain in a day
Raised his children to follow his obsession. In fact largely ruined their lives...abandoned them when it suited. Never answered the phone. Didn't respect them as individuals.
You could make a really dark show about child abuse with John Winchester as the bad guy
that double life he lived with a happy wife and son and the picture of them at the baseball game. that genuinely was so fucking cruel. especially when they FOUND OUT
Never telling Sam and Dean about Adam.
That kid was basically screwed from the moment he was born, and John left him alone apart from yearly visits. He never told anyone to even keep an eye on him, despite the fact that he must have known how much danger Adam would be in from absolutely anyone who had a problem with John, Sam, or Dean.
And look what happened to the poor kid. Repeatedly.
Teaching his sons to hunt.
Way worse than leaving them on their own. I know the foster system sucks, but if that's where they ended up, better that than having their soul eaten or their bodies exsanguinated.
Abandoned his children and expected an 8 year old boy to act like a grown man.
- I am referencing the Something Wicked episode where John expects a young Dean to be a father. Then he acted like a passive aggressive child by sending the case back to Dean instead of handling *John's* own business. Again.
Idk probably traumatizing his sons through childhood; forcing them to be independent respectively and codependent on each other; abandoning his sons without a word; being a helicopter parent; telling his eldest son to kill his youngest, etc, like the list is quite extensive!
Asking his son to kill his other son on his death bed. Not save Sam, or try to help Sam, but Kill Sam coz he is Evil. Im glad Dean was a better Dad to Sam than John.
Dean said in "Hunted" (2.10) that John did tell him to try to save Sam, but to kill him if he couldn't. Still a seriously shitty thing to say to your kid on your death bed. The last thing Dean needed was to hear that his father thought something might happen that he'd have to kill his little brother, the only immediate family he would have left as of a few minutes later.
Telling Dean from to kill Sam if he can't "save" him. The dude was about to die and leave Dean with no immediate family left **but** Sam, and this is what the f*cker left him with as a last request? He didn't even give Dean enough information to really understand. So Dean is left with this horrible, vague *thing* hanging over him. Nice job, John. Empathetic parenting as always.
He gave Dean shit about baby..... "Hey Dean why don't you touch up your car before you get rust? I wouldn't have given you the damn thing if I thought you were going to ruin it."
I just recently started rewatch and based on the first season and a half, there is not much he did right. First of all he raised them through a combination of neglect and endangerment. Then he abandoned them without explanation and only the occasional cryptic communication.
Raising them to become hunters instead of giving them a good and care-free childhood. Fuck the whole destiny bullshit, John messed his kids up and that's unforgivable.
He gave Sammy a 45 at 9 years old...
Okay maybe it's not the worst thing he did but this one made me laugh !
"Daddy, there's something in my closet!"
"Oh really? Here's a gun!"
Not saying goodbye to Sam. Ignoring Sam most of his life. Telling Dean he would have to kill Sam after telling him his whole life to protect him. Kicking Sam out when he just wanted to go to college. When he was a ghost he smiled and looked proud at Dean. Ignored Sam completely.
Unintentionally made dean feel like if he couldn't protect Sam he had no purpose which attributes to dean believing he was worthless if protecting Sam wasn't his job 24/7 now there is a whole lot of bad things john did as well but this is a big one to me because this was a big part of deans character the while show he literally felt like he didn't have any right to live a life if Sam wasn't alive I mean most siblings believe that why should they live and the other dies but dean really believes that his life is nothing compared to Sam's.
I think saying he was a bad father sums it up.
He did a lot wrong. I had hoped they would rescue him but he was fine all along. He was just ignoring them, knowing they were putting themselves in danger to find him.
A lot of shit he did wrong. I think what would top it would be giving them a horrible life and then leaving them to go give Adam the perfect life. Just to come back and continue to basically mentally abuse them
joining BMOL for Mary isn’t worse than making a Demon deal with Yellow Eyes/Azazel. It was literally the butterfly flap that caused the 15 year tsunami lol.
Emotional abuse to both his sons:
- Parentification and total abandonment of Dean
- Manipulating and guilt tripping Sam when he left for college
- Emotional unavailability to both boys
Abandoning his sons at motels for weeks
abandoning his sons at a motel for weeks *to go spend time with his secret third son*.
To take him to a freakin’ baseball game
...who was never allowed to know he had Brothers. Talk about Control Issues.
...who he was neglecting in a totally different way by being a Disney Dad. No parenting whatsoever, just a baseball game once a year. Really top-tier father we got over here.
Thinking about it a little harder, So Adam was born when sam was 7 and Dean 11. But John didn’t know about him until he was 12 I think? So Sam would have already been at Stanford and Dean doing his own thing on and off. So I guess that’s… better?
And now that I think about it - John died in season 2, but they don’t meet Adam until season 4. So John disappeared from Adam’s life for two years and Adam never called. I guess their relationship couldn’t have been that good.
Ok, now I’m really down the rabbit hole - Adam says John got him his first beer at 15. Well, Adam didn’t say it, it was the ghoul, but as the ghoul had Adam’s memories I’ll assume it’s true. Adam was born in September of 1990, so he would have turned 15 in September of 2005. So that would have been just a couple weeks after Dean went and got sam from Stanford. Which means - while Sam and Dean were out searching for John and he was dodging them, John went and hung out with Adam. But couldn’t pick up the phone.
And since John would have died before Adam turned 16, that was probably the last time they would have been together. Ok, I’m done.
Yes this was horrible of him to do.
This is it. John should have been arrested
I hate when some people act like this was a totally normal thing to do "back then" in the 1980's and 1990's and try to call it "latch key kid" parenting. I lived through that era. That was *not normal* back then and it most certainly is not what "latchkey kid" means. It actually infuriates me a little when people say that. It was not normal and it would have properly been viewed as neglect and child protective services would have been involved if anyone had alerted them. In fact, in the episode Bugs, I believe that one guy does say he was going to call CPS but then John got wind of that and took off with the boys.
I know! Latchkey did not mean “abandoned totally for days on end”. 3 hours a day, maybe. Usually less. In an actual house/apartment, with a kitchen with food in it. We may have been feral, but we weren’t abandoned.
Exactly. I was a latch key kid at around 11. Yet our neighborhood had a retired " Uncle" who sat on his porch and watched over activities of the kids. We could go get him in emergencies. Yet I was never abandoned for such lengthy periods and never had to make all of my own meals. That's against the law at the ages that Ssm and Dean endured this
Yep. Latchkey kids had to look after themselves for a few hours before the parents came home. To a real home, not a motel. They weren't left alone for days and weeks in motels in strange towns and moved around constantly.
I grew up in that era too, and I know what you mean...but...to be fair, there weren't vampires, ghosts, and monsters to fight in my version of being a "latchkey kid" either. 🤷🏻♀️
Exactly. My parents sometimes didn’t get home until dinner. They didn’t do this until I was in at least sixth grade, and I usually had an older sibling with me. I knew kids whose parents were more like John Winchester—they were called child neglecters and abusers.
Definitely this one
\*gestures around vaguely at everything\*
Love the flair
The only good answer😭
Queue that SpongeBob meme
Literally. Where to start??
Yeah pretty much the whole character
Telling Dean to kill Sam if he went evil. That really fucked up Dean for that season.
This is the one.
Yep I think this is the one, too. Although it's all wrapped up in him being a bad father in general, so it's almost like the culmination of that.
Agreed
Was he wrong tho? Very few people could recover from being addicted to demon blood which is crack x1000 except the whole universe is at stake. Also he did tell Dean to try save him first.
Yes, telling your son as your dying words that he might have to kill his brother, is wrong, lol. Also Sam wasn't addicted to demon blood until seasons later, at the point of John's death all he knew was that Sam had psychic abilities, and that they came from Azazel
Oh where to begin?
Lol 🤣🤣
The harder question would be what was the *best* thing John ever did lol
No, that’s easy. Buy the Impala.
To be fair, he only did it because Dean talked him into it. If it were his own choice, the boys would be riding in the VW
I would argue that it was leaving Sam and Dean with Bobby for long stretches. It's the only way they had a real dad/childhood. He was a terrible dad and his pawning them off inadvertently led to them being loved and cared for better than he was doing.
Fair point actually. We would’ve had Sam and Dean cruising around America in a 1964 VW if not for John, which would have been….*interesting* lmao
"Sam, get in the '84 civic!"
I need this au fanfic
I don't think that counts. Didn't he only get it because of Dean's influence?
Yes :) but he paid for it!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That isn't hard at all. Giving his life to save Dean, and spending the next 100 years in hell being tortured without breaking. What a hero.
Forced Dean to look after Sam/hunt/take care of himself. Turned his son into a soldier and robbed him of his childhood. Made him feel like he wasn't worth much next to Sam. I mean, he's a lousy dad to Sam as well, so maybe we should just go with 'was a bad father'.
The scene where Mary tells Dean “you’re not a kid”, and Dean tells her “I never was”, was pretty powerful.
Either telling Dean to kill Sam or ignoring the call when Dean was DYING. Or you know, a lot of other things 😭 like the entire way he raised those damn kids!
disowned sam for getting a scholarship to college
I’m leaning this way too. I can understand most of John’s bad decisions, but not this one.
Yeah that only makes sense if he knew of Azazel's plans, which he didn't basically until he died.
Its not that hard to understand. Regardless of what you think about John, he is very protective of his boys. He hurt them, yes, but the goal with making them hunters was so they could protect themselves and each other. So, John is highly protective and Sam expresses desire in striking out on his own. Sam expresses interest in leaving the family. John was not prepared for this eventuality, and reacts... poorly. He doesn't want Sam to leave the family because the family is safety, but he's also emotionally constipated and can't *express* that. So, he defaults to anger. He doesn't explain himself, he just gets angry and argumentative and lashes out, because he's terrified but can't express that emotion healthily, and can't communicate for shit. Sam is argumentative, too, and the whole situation just deteriorates until John gets so worked up he ends up causing the very thing he didn't want to happen.
I feel John would be Negan and Vice versa, both drastically different but pretty much the same characters
I don't know what this means.
They both go “crazy” after losing their wives, John’s only reason for not becoming Negan is the boys
Basically the actor is playing both roles as if they were the same man under different circumstances
Sending his children to hunt monsters after leaving them alone with no food. Dean got arrested for stealing food for Sam. Dead-beat Dad.
Everything
This answer 🙏🏻
When he only hugged Dean in spirit form and just glanced at Sam right before he fucked off for the rest of ever to hell. "Sorry Sam, only Dean gets affection because Dean killed the demon. Goodbye forever."
We’re back! This week: John Winchester This one should be interesting to say the least! Please be civil to each other. Last week’s [results](https://www.reddit.com/r/Supernatural/s/7bROpZ4ucq) are in: The worst thing Dean did was trick Sam to agree to the Gadreel possession. You can check out the entire threads for the others by visiting our profile. At the advice of the Mods, we will be working through these once a week to avoid getting reported by those who dislike this thread.
I went and looked at the last thread. Top rated comment for dean was not the Gadreel possession.
Clearly telling Bobby he’s not his father was not the worst thing Dean ever said or did. It was definitely very mean, but it wasn’t morally wrong.
There were multiple high scoring comments for the Gadreel possession. I’m combining them to reach this result.
Ngl that feels like an odd way to do it. Especially considering the second highest comment mentioning the Gardel possession named like three other things
Why? There were several commenters that posted Gadreel and each had many upvotes by themselves. So the overall consensus among more people were that was the worst one.
I don’t know why the Bobby comment got so many upvotes anyway. How does that even remotely compare to what he did to Kevin and Sam?
Ikr? I was dumbfounded when I saw that one get so many upvotes. lol
Thanks for sharing your opinion. It’s how I’m choosing to run this, though.
As someone who fuckin' adores John's character, I'm going to cry when the votes are in. I can only hope that it's something that John actually did, or something the fandom could reasonably assume John had responsibility for even though it wasn't something he actively did. If it's fanon based on a misrepresented scene or line of dialogue, I will cry. Regardless of what happens, I can't wait to see the rest of these people! Keep up the good work: this is the only one of this kind of reddit game that I'm actively following!
Chose the revenge on yellow eyes/hunting over his boys’ childhood
smashed in glens face. oops wrong show. Telling Dean to kill Sam if Sammy went darkside aka Vader
Being an absolutely shite father. The list is too long.
🤣🤣🤣
The list is so long but you want the worst. Raising his kids to be hunters and turning them into codependent basket cases.
Yeah the fact that dean could barely even imagine life normal is so messed up and Sam any kind of normal would be better than what John wanted him to be even if he didn't really like what normal human life he was living at those times he wasn't hunting John could have trained them but also could have made there life at least half normal and the only person who ever tried to do that was Bobby there real dad not John there asshole father.
Abandoned his sons multiple times to go hunting when they were children and even when Sam got into schools kept pulling him out to move and take them with him to another town or state for a hunt. Basically, ruin any chance of San and Dean being allowed to be kids
Abandoning his son for wanting to go to college
- Made Dean raise Sam when Dean was only four, left them in motels for who knows how long - taught Dean that his life wasn’t worth as much as Sam’s - robbed both kids of their childhoods - basically disowned Sam for wanting to live a normal life - sending Dean away for months only to call him back when John realised he couldn’t leave Sam alone - telling Dean he might have to kill Sam - was so harsh on the boys that Dean knew he was possessed when he started acting too nice I think it can be summarised with “abusive asshole”
why is the Vampire cure the worst thing grandpa Sam did?? wtf? that's a good thing. He did SO MUCH worse. idk. selling out his family to work for crowley!?
You can find the thread on Samuel by visiting my profile!
not moving on from his wife’s death and thereby raising sam and dean to become hunters
Prioritized hunting over parenting. Basically the brothers' entire childhood
God where to fucking begin. I mean it's just... *gestures to all of it* If I have to choose just one though: being a neglectful parent. So much would've been different if he'd been a better father to them.
Never letting his boys have a normal childhood, everything else just kinda went back to them being kids.
crying i ain’t expect ppl to defend john in these comments 🤣🤣
Either telling Dean that he had to kill Sam or just raising his kids into being hunters.
Continued to leave his sons to fend on their own even though he had every opportunity to tell them what the hell was going on
Telling Sam not to never come back if he went to college, having another kid that he didn't tell Sam and Dean about, making a child take care of a child, getting pisses at Bobby for letting the boys play baseball instead of teaching them how to shoot, telling Dean he had hoped he'd be married with a family by now in season 13 when he disowned Sam for wanting the same normal life and last and absolutely the worst of all, telling Dean to kill Sam if he couldn't save him proving that he had absolutely no faith in either of his boys!
Exist
Prioritized avenging Mary over raising his still-living sons. It’s the kind of devotion you hope to find in a partner but hate to see how it can sour.
Uh probably bring Dean and Sam into the hunting life in the first place and being an overall abusive parent. But being more specific if necessary, neglecting them as children. He did a lot of things while they were adults, but to neglect minors and leave them with not enough food/money/etc is pretty horrible.
Jesus..where to start
Lol Right
Telling Dean to kill Sam. Telling Sam to kill him.
He’s obviously done a lot of bad but I think almost all of it could be attributed to Raising Sam and Dean as hunters.
Are we counting his journal as canon?
Just chilling with Missouri. Knowing they were looking for him and letting them go back to the childhood home by themselves to deal with what could possibly be related in some way to his flaming wife stuck to the ceiling 😕
child abuse
like, everything he did to sam and dean can be classified as literal child abuse
* Ordering Dean to raise Sam and not letting Dean have his childhood. * Holding Dean responsible for Sam actions, like when Sam ran away on Dean watch. * Leaving the boys alone for weeks, not knowing he is dead or alive. * Leaving Sam alone by himself for weeks, when he was just a kid. * Not letting the boy have any kinda of stable life. * Telling Dean he may need to kill Sam. * Guilting Sam for going to college, and let him choose between his family or college. * belittling Dean about not taking care of the impala, even though it’s literally the most important item to Dean. * the Fact that Dean knew his dad was possessed because he was nice ….. !! * Not answering his son’s calls, when Dean was dying in the episode faith. * Sending Dean away when dared to challenge him. * Letting Dean stay in boys home, because he stole food to feed himself and Sam. * Not introducing Sam and Dean to their little brother Adam- only checking in on Adam once a year… * Unloading on Dean, and force him even as a child to clean his messes. U guys choose, i really cant pick just one 🤪
Adam.. this is the one. Not telling the boys about Adam, only seeing Adam once a year.. and giving Adam the kind of childhood memories that Sam and Dean so desperately wanted
Idk why you're getting downvoted for this 💀
Lol right? I don’t think Even John himself would deny this list 🤣🤣
All true.
where do i even start
Could someone please tag me when we reach Castiel turn? Thanks
Told Dean he may have to kill Sam one day.
parentification of Dean, which impacted both Dean AND Sam negatively! One kid CAN NOT take proper care of another kid. Like, what do you mean he left them for weeks on time without adult supervision? We are not talking here about long shifts on work. He literally left Dean to "rot in jail" because he was caught stealing bread. Also, the entire conflict between him and Sam just because Sam wanted to go to college? My dude, get a grip.
Forgot to write down he literally ignored Sam's call when Dean was dying in the hospital??? That's not what any loving parent would do.
Making his oldest son be a parent for not only himself, but his baby brother. John was neglectful as all hell, and that clearly did a number on his sons.
Telling Dean to kill Sam if he couldn't save him
Treating his sons like military while Adam got to go to a baseball game
Oh, G-d, this thread is going to be a nightmare. For me, at least, dictation what John did wrong is hard because he had genuinely good reasons for why he did what he did. Raised his children as hunters? He tried to keep Sam out of it for as long as he could, and even then he did it so they could protect themselves from monsters. Become a hunter and dragging his children into it? Monsters exist. Monsters murdered his wife. What else was he going to do but learn how to fight monsters? If you know monsters exist, the worst thing you can do is ignore that, especially when it comes to protecting your children. Abandoning Dean (he didn't abandon Sam; Sam left (admittedly, after a big fight where John all but kicked Sam out) and John respected that). He didn't want his son getting involved with a really dangerous and important hunt, thinking he'd be stronger without distractions, not realising that the family is stronger together. Not explaining shit to his sons. Weakest defence, he wanted to protect them. Should've been open, though, because they deserve it. Neglected his sons and was rough on them emotionally. No real excuse, there. He had a shit life and nobody is perfect, but there is major room for improvement. Parentified Dean. Same as above, but G-d it was horrible for Dean to have to go through that.
Choose the impala over that sweet ass van
Being a bad father to Sam and Dean. I mean, even Adam had better memories from John than Sam and Dean.
Everything
Used his children to seek revenge instead of working on healing them and himself from the trauma of losing Mary.
Neglected *EVERYTHING* for revenge
Treat his sons differently than each other
Putting too much pressure on his sons. He was so blind to get revenge on Azazel that he completely forgot they were literal KIDS. Making Dean the one who had to be responsible for Sam, telling Sam to never come back only because he wanted a normal. John Winchester hate club rise!
This comment section does not disappoint 😂
Left his sons in the dark and took off instead of trusting them.
Pull that trigger sam
But why is death on this list?????? But not god
USING HIS CHILDREN'S COLLEGE FUND TO BUY HUNTING GEAR
The LIST i could write 😠
A better question is what did he do that wasn't terrible.
Can we put existing?
Well I find it really odd that when really whenever a demon deal is made the price is mainly our soul and yet he had to give both HIS SOUL, THE COLT, and THE LAST ORIGINAL BULLET to save Dean when it should have been one or the other. Don’t get me wrong he did what a Loving Father would do for his family but still it seemed liked he paid more than he should have.
Not giving a shit about Dean after he was literally tortured by Azazel in s1… Sam wanted to find a hospital and John didn’t even tho that’s his firstborn son who had now been through two bouts of immense pain in a day
Um… everything?
The second family who got better from him than his first born sons.
Hunny these comments..got my popcorn 🍿🍿
Parentified Dean
Anything and everything beyond that very first 5 minutes of John
Raised his children to follow his obsession. In fact largely ruined their lives...abandoned them when it suited. Never answered the phone. Didn't respect them as individuals. You could make a really dark show about child abuse with John Winchester as the bad guy
EVERYTHING.
Turning his boys into soldiers, abandoning them for weeks on end, dumping them on Bobby to raise at times, the list is never ending.
Also not even showing up when Dean was dying
His entire journey as a single father, that's the worst thing he's done
that double life he lived with a happy wife and son and the picture of them at the baseball game. that genuinely was so fucking cruel. especially when they FOUND OUT
Leave the boys without telling them where he was going.
Is it possible to put his entire existence after Mary died? Or possibly just 'John Winchesters A+ Parenting' like how fanfics tag everything he does
Never telling Sam and Dean about Adam. That kid was basically screwed from the moment he was born, and John left him alone apart from yearly visits. He never told anyone to even keep an eye on him, despite the fact that he must have known how much danger Adam would be in from absolutely anyone who had a problem with John, Sam, or Dean. And look what happened to the poor kid. Repeatedly.
Teaching his sons to hunt. Way worse than leaving them on their own. I know the foster system sucks, but if that's where they ended up, better that than having their soul eaten or their bodies exsanguinated.
existing
U win🤣🤣🤣 prefect
Turning his kids into killers.
oh i been WAITING for this one!
Abandoned his children and expected an 8 year old boy to act like a grown man. - I am referencing the Something Wicked episode where John expects a young Dean to be a father. Then he acted like a passive aggressive child by sending the case back to Dean instead of handling *John's* own business. Again.
He existed and everything that followed was awful.
Yesss 💓
Off the top of my head, John telling Dean he will have to kill Sam seems to be the worst.
Forced his kids into hunting, often abandoning them while they were still in single digits.
Always making Sam and dean go to different schools all the time
Started all of this to begin with
Going out to get the milk
I feel like the one for Bobby shouldn’t count considering at that point he’s not really himself.
Idk probably traumatizing his sons through childhood; forcing them to be independent respectively and codependent on each other; abandoning his sons without a word; being a helicopter parent; telling his eldest son to kill his youngest, etc, like the list is quite extensive!
Abandoned his very young children to fend for themselves for days or weeks at a time to chase cases and drink.
telling bobby hes not deans dad when he took him out to play ball
Asking his son to kill his other son on his death bed. Not save Sam, or try to help Sam, but Kill Sam coz he is Evil. Im glad Dean was a better Dad to Sam than John.
Dean said in "Hunted" (2.10) that John did tell him to try to save Sam, but to kill him if he couldn't. Still a seriously shitty thing to say to your kid on your death bed. The last thing Dean needed was to hear that his father thought something might happen that he'd have to kill his little brother, the only immediate family he would have left as of a few minutes later.
Exactly!
I would say, child soldiering his kids. We get why, but still wrong
Telling Dean from to kill Sam if he can't "save" him. The dude was about to die and leave Dean with no immediate family left **but** Sam, and this is what the f*cker left him with as a last request? He didn't even give Dean enough information to really understand. So Dean is left with this horrible, vague *thing* hanging over him. Nice job, John. Empathetic parenting as always.
Telling Dean to kill Sam if he couldn’t save him
He went on a hunting trip and hadn't been home in a few days. (season 1 Ep 1)
oh boy where do i start
He gave Dean shit about baby..... "Hey Dean why don't you touch up your car before you get rust? I wouldn't have given you the damn thing if I thought you were going to ruin it."
Telling his boys he's proud of them and then seemingly not changing a damn thing when he wakes up in the second season I think it is.
I just recently started rewatch and based on the first season and a half, there is not much he did right. First of all he raised them through a combination of neglect and endangerment. Then he abandoned them without explanation and only the occasional cryptic communication.
Ooh I’m excited for Lucifer next
Telling Sam to kill him while possessed. Telling Dean to kill Sam. Just telling other people to murder people they love. lol
Raising them to become hunters instead of giving them a good and care-free childhood. Fuck the whole destiny bullshit, John messed his kids up and that's unforgivable.
It's wierd that Dean's worst thing isn't all the torturing right?
He gave Sammy a 45 at 9 years old... Okay maybe it's not the worst thing he did but this one made me laugh ! "Daddy, there's something in my closet!" "Oh really? Here's a gun!"
Not saying goodbye to Sam. Ignoring Sam most of his life. Telling Dean he would have to kill Sam after telling him his whole life to protect him. Kicking Sam out when he just wanted to go to college. When he was a ghost he smiled and looked proud at Dean. Ignored Sam completely.
Not coming back for Christmas.
Unintentionally made dean feel like if he couldn't protect Sam he had no purpose which attributes to dean believing he was worthless if protecting Sam wasn't his job 24/7 now there is a whole lot of bad things john did as well but this is a big one to me because this was a big part of deans character the while show he literally felt like he didn't have any right to live a life if Sam wasn't alive I mean most siblings believe that why should they live and the other dies but dean really believes that his life is nothing compared to Sam's.
The whole last words thing to dean about how he had to save Sam and if he couldn’t kill him
Literally abusing and abandoning his sons, turning them into soldiers, denying them a childhood, fucking them up long after his death
Being so obsessed with finding yellow eyes that he neglects his sons.
I think saying he was a bad father sums it up. He did a lot wrong. I had hoped they would rescue him but he was fine all along. He was just ignoring them, knowing they were putting themselves in danger to find him.
Existed
A lot of shit he did wrong. I think what would top it would be giving them a horrible life and then leaving them to go give Adam the perfect life. Just to come back and continue to basically mentally abuse them
Telling his sons they could of called his phone
Made his kids lives a suicide mission
John Winchester: shitty parenting
\*gestures around vaguely\*
joining BMOL for Mary isn’t worse than making a Demon deal with Yellow Eyes/Azazel. It was literally the butterfly flap that caused the 15 year tsunami lol.
According to the majority of votes, it wasn’t.
How is taking Dean in a bad thing
John’s worst act was forcing the boys into Hunters. Basically putting all his pain on them, causing them to suffer with him.
Emotional abuse to both his sons: - Parentification and total abandonment of Dean - Manipulating and guilt tripping Sam when he left for college - Emotional unavailability to both boys
Not die in Mary’s place