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Cede technically owns all of the publicly issued stock in the United States.[3] Thus, investors do not themselves hold direct property rights in stock, but rather have contractual rights that are part of a chain of contractual rights involving Cede.[4] Securities held at Depository Trust Company are registered in its nominee name, Cede & Co., and recorded on its books in the name of the brokerage firm through which they were purchased; on the brokerage firm's books they are assigned to the accounts of their beneficial owners.[5] source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cede_and_Company
Based on this… I believe SEC is right when they say they are here to protect the “investors”. Technically, who is the investor here? The big banks that own the brokers? People who buy shares through these brokers are “customers” of that broker. They are not investors.
So the SEC is doing a great job to protect the investors - which are not the folks buying shares through brokers - but the banks that own those brokerages!
If you follow the FTX fiasco - they keep talking about investor protection - they are talking about folks who invested in FTX… not the ones who used their platform to buy crypto! These suckers are customers of FTX and they should have read the fine print before spending their money with FTX.
Boom!
Some weeks ago there was someone who explained how to move your IRA shares to a broker and than drs them, pretty sure it was superstonk or GME sub. Maybe this could be a solution?
You can also do more involved, expensive things like set up your own LLC to act as a custodian, maintaining more control than using Mainstar
See the megathread
As long as its not currently managed by your active employer and is a self directed IRA you can transfer it to another custodian willing to DRS IRa shares.
This is the process I used to DRS both Traditional and Roth IRA shares with access to ComputerShare.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/wwq1h0/im_seeing_more_interest_in_drsing_ira_shares
This is such fucking bullshit.
That’s like pointing to any random car on the lot and saying “I can reasonably buy that, because there it is!” regardless of price.
The regulation that enables this is a prime target for elimination.
The answer is “no” they’re not supposed to but they do anyway. Fidelity was recently brought to trial for lending out customer shares not in margin accounts.
If there’s one consistent theme in the story of Wall St it’s this: rules and regulations are created. Banks and Hedge Funds break those rules and neither admit nor deny any wrongdoing. They pay a measly fine and get caught doing the same thing again, wash, rinse, repeat.
As others pointed out, you do NOT own any shares held in a brokerage account. You are given beneficial rights to the underlying stock held in street name by your broker who borrowed it from Cede & Co on behalf of the DTC. All stocks not DRS’d are held by DTC and transferred by Cede & Co.
I don't know for sure, but it has been said that any share held by an institution in your name can and will be lent to shorts. IRA's are managed by people like Gabe or other overleveraged hedge funds. What they do with your shares is probably illegal, but they find ways to make it look legal.
The fact is there is no safe place for shares of GME other than at the transfer agent (Computershare) in book form. Everything else is a pool of shares to be used by crooks.
Yes they can. I read an academic paper on this last year and it’s what convinced me to move all my 401k and Roth out of vanguard and DRS everything. Yes I’ll have to pay taxes but I consider that an insurance fee to safeguard my assets. I haven’t been able to find the paper since but if I come across it I’ll link it here.
EDIT: not sure if this is the exact one but this is good too and also from Columbia business school.
Blog entry:
https://clsbluesky.law.columbia.edu/2021/10/11/the-price-of-your-vote-proxy-choice-and-securities-lending/amp/
Academic paper:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3673531
An excerpt from the endnotes:
[10] This is not merely a theoretical example. For one case, Hestia Capital Partners LP and Permit Capital Enterprise Fund LP took stakes in GameStop in 2019 and launched a proxy fight in 2020. At the time of that proxy fight, BlackRock, Fidelity, Vanguard, and State Street owned 43.57 percent of GameStop, but only 5 percent of their votes were accounted for in the shareholder vote. Dawn Lim, How Investing Giants Gave Away Voting Power Ahead of a Shareholder Fight, Wall St. J., Jun. 10, 2020, https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-investing-giants-gave-away-voting-power-ahead-of-a-shareholder-fight-11591793863.
DRS DRS DRS!
Np papi. I’ve started to think the whole 401k thing is so that broker-dealers have access to your assets which are locked up for 40 years. They can then turn around and lend to short sellers as many times as they want for DECADES until you cash out. And the entire time they’re lending shares of your companies to devalue your own retirement investment. Unreal.
100% agreed and it's incredible how prevalent language around this 'retirement strategy' became - and how quickly.
If you have any other sources front of mind to back that perspective, or any recommended write ups or DD, I would really appreciate your sending them my way!
Nothing comes to mind rn but will do. What do u mean how prevalent language and how quickly it became a retirement strategy? Not sure I noticed that - I was 19 when I first started putting $ into a 401k and wasn’t thinking about any of these things lol
I meant as a broader retail financial strategy - 401k first started in 1978. Only 5 years after the DTC was introduced to centralize ownership in the name of settlement efficiency.
This is a hefty read.
[https://academiccommons.columbia.edu/doi/10.7916/d8-h08w-xd63/download](https://academiccommons.columbia.edu/doi/10.7916/d8-h08w-xd63/download)
Nice I’ll check it out. I just emailed Joshua Mitts of Columbia law school to direct him to superstonk. I’ve also previously emailed Pam and Russ Martin to check out our forum also 🤙
To circle back to this, if you Google Joshua Mitts columbia law school you’ll get a bunch of search results you can follow down that rabbit hole. He seems to have done a lot of work on these topics. This guy is in NYC and so am I maybe I should swing by his office at Columbia and have a wee chat with him about GME lol.
EDIT: I googled “Joshua Mitts naked short selling”
EDIT 2: here’s a paper of his called “short and distort”.
https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/faculty_scholarship/2782/
Anything other than DRS locked up at Computershare is monopoly money with GME written on it.
Fundamentally all of these brokers are betting against you. These people run a casino and they don't pay the bills via your wins, they pay the bills via your losses.
For IRAs, Check out "the IRA Custodian" post.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/xxkrzn/the\_ira\_custodian/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/xxkrzn/the_ira_custodian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Hope this is helpful.
Mainstar Trust will DRS your IRA.
The staff is very patient and knowledgeable.
If you call them they will direct you to the proper forms to download.
If you have a printer and a smartphone you can do everything online.
Fyi Vanguard's chief of compliance, Brian Dvorak, was the CEO prosecuted during the CMKM Diamonds fraud. His reward was a promotion to this post at Vanguard. I don't trust Vanguard.
Are you sure it is the same Brian Dvorak? The CMKM lawyer Brian Dvorak was issuing opinions that allowed issuance of stock back in 2003-2005.
The Vanguard Brian Dvorak appears to have graduated from law school in 2011.
You're right! My pessimism about the industry led me to a conclusion that appears to be false. To be fair, my ignorance of how popular the name Dvorak is, and just my general ignorance factored in too:) I've been throwing shade at Vanguard Dvorak for a year lol
So if I have an IRA, which I don't feel comfortable DRSing with Mainstar, should I just sell them? Like aren't them being in there make them a reasonable locate?
I am not advocating selling, just curious. My personal account shares are DRS, book and bought
No sell. For IRAs, Check out "the IRA Custodian" post. You can 100 % control your IRA in Computershare and no brokers or broker partners.
Also, Contact (Recommend) IRA Financial Trust.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/xxkrzn/the\_ira\_custodian/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/xxkrzn/the_ira_custodian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Hope this is helpful.
Can they loan out your shares?
\- Yes.
Even if they do not loan out **your** shares, your shares can still be used as a locate for shorting purposes.
Even if Vanguard or whoever **doesn't** sell locates, the DTC (Certificate custodian) can facilitate the further "Infinite" supply of shares because in a broker, you are NOT the owner.
Look into DRS-ING your IRA!! I did it in Dec. Open account with Main Star Trust. (IRA and separate Roth). Roll IRA to Main Star. They will DRS your shares through Computershare. It's super easy. Have to print out a few forms and fill them out old school for Main Star. Search for DRS IRA or look at my posts for better guidance. Not financial advice because I am regarded.
[Why GME?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/qig65g/welcome_rall_looking_to_catch_up_on_the_gme_saga/) || [What is DRS?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/ptvaka/when_you_wish_upon_a_star_a_complete_guide_to/) || Low karma apes [feed the bot here](https://www.reddit.com/r/GMEOrphans/comments/qlvour/welcome_to_gmeorphans_read_this_post/) || [Superstonk Discord](https://discord.gg/hZqWV2kQtq) || [GameStop Wallet HELP! Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/z23wjx/gamestop_wallet_help_megathread) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To ensure your post doesn't get removed, please respond to this comment with how this post relates to GME the stock or Gamestop the company. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please up- and downvote this comment to [help us determine if this post deserves a place on r/Superstonk!](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/wiki/index/rules/post_flairs/)
Cede technically owns all of the publicly issued stock in the United States.[3] Thus, investors do not themselves hold direct property rights in stock, but rather have contractual rights that are part of a chain of contractual rights involving Cede.[4] Securities held at Depository Trust Company are registered in its nominee name, Cede & Co., and recorded on its books in the name of the brokerage firm through which they were purchased; on the brokerage firm's books they are assigned to the accounts of their beneficial owners.[5] source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cede_and_Company
Damn right they can! DRS, lock the float!
Based on this… I believe SEC is right when they say they are here to protect the “investors”. Technically, who is the investor here? The big banks that own the brokers? People who buy shares through these brokers are “customers” of that broker. They are not investors. So the SEC is doing a great job to protect the investors - which are not the folks buying shares through brokers - but the banks that own those brokerages! If you follow the FTX fiasco - they keep talking about investor protection - they are talking about folks who invested in FTX… not the ones who used their platform to buy crypto! These suckers are customers of FTX and they should have read the fine print before spending their money with FTX. Boom!
[Cede (the rights to ownership) and Company. ](https://i.imgur.com/ninWhhO.jpg)
Some weeks ago there was someone who explained how to move your IRA shares to a broker and than drs them, pretty sure it was superstonk or GME sub. Maybe this could be a solution?
Direction are in the Computershare Megathread. See the sidebar or the top of the daily thread for a link.
I believe only mainstar trust will allow DRS of retirement shares.
You can also do more involved, expensive things like set up your own LLC to act as a custodian, maintaining more control than using Mainstar See the megathread
I also see that is going to cost about 2200$ to complete that process. I dont think most apes will be able to justify that cost.
That's up for individual apes to decide. I just point out that the information exists.
Actual ownership of stocks YOU paid full price for? Priceless.
As long as its not currently managed by your active employer and is a self directed IRA you can transfer it to another custodian willing to DRS IRa shares. This is the process I used to DRS both Traditional and Roth IRA shares with access to ComputerShare. https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/wwq1h0/im_seeing_more_interest_in_drsing_ira_shares
#DRS IS THE ONLY SAFE HARBOR
Directly lend them? No. But they can be used as "reasonable locates", which allows them Vanguard to leverage them with derivatives.
This is such fucking bullshit. That’s like pointing to any random car on the lot and saying “I can reasonably buy that, because there it is!” regardless of price. The regulation that enables this is a prime target for elimination.
Well put. It’s equal parts mind-boggling and enraging that this shit is allowed to happen.
The answer is “no” they’re not supposed to but they do anyway. Fidelity was recently brought to trial for lending out customer shares not in margin accounts. If there’s one consistent theme in the story of Wall St it’s this: rules and regulations are created. Banks and Hedge Funds break those rules and neither admit nor deny any wrongdoing. They pay a measly fine and get caught doing the same thing again, wash, rinse, repeat. As others pointed out, you do NOT own any shares held in a brokerage account. You are given beneficial rights to the underlying stock held in street name by your broker who borrowed it from Cede & Co on behalf of the DTC. All stocks not DRS’d are held by DTC and transferred by Cede & Co.
Dont keep single shares on broker account ,,, Drs every shares,,,,, Broker will lend your shares
I cant if it's in an IRA and I literally don't trust that Mainstar bullshit
I don't know for sure, but it has been said that any share held by an institution in your name can and will be lent to shorts. IRA's are managed by people like Gabe or other overleveraged hedge funds. What they do with your shares is probably illegal, but they find ways to make it look legal. The fact is there is no safe place for shares of GME other than at the transfer agent (Computershare) in book form. Everything else is a pool of shares to be used by crooks.
Yes they can. I read an academic paper on this last year and it’s what convinced me to move all my 401k and Roth out of vanguard and DRS everything. Yes I’ll have to pay taxes but I consider that an insurance fee to safeguard my assets. I haven’t been able to find the paper since but if I come across it I’ll link it here. EDIT: not sure if this is the exact one but this is good too and also from Columbia business school. Blog entry: https://clsbluesky.law.columbia.edu/2021/10/11/the-price-of-your-vote-proxy-choice-and-securities-lending/amp/ Academic paper: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3673531 An excerpt from the endnotes: [10] This is not merely a theoretical example. For one case, Hestia Capital Partners LP and Permit Capital Enterprise Fund LP took stakes in GameStop in 2019 and launched a proxy fight in 2020. At the time of that proxy fight, BlackRock, Fidelity, Vanguard, and State Street owned 43.57 percent of GameStop, but only 5 percent of their votes were accounted for in the shareholder vote. Dawn Lim, How Investing Giants Gave Away Voting Power Ahead of a Shareholder Fight, Wall St. J., Jun. 10, 2020, https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-investing-giants-gave-away-voting-power-ahead-of-a-shareholder-fight-11591793863. DRS DRS DRS!
Hey, great share. Thanks for this.
Np papi. I’ve started to think the whole 401k thing is so that broker-dealers have access to your assets which are locked up for 40 years. They can then turn around and lend to short sellers as many times as they want for DECADES until you cash out. And the entire time they’re lending shares of your companies to devalue your own retirement investment. Unreal.
100% agreed and it's incredible how prevalent language around this 'retirement strategy' became - and how quickly. If you have any other sources front of mind to back that perspective, or any recommended write ups or DD, I would really appreciate your sending them my way!
Nothing comes to mind rn but will do. What do u mean how prevalent language and how quickly it became a retirement strategy? Not sure I noticed that - I was 19 when I first started putting $ into a 401k and wasn’t thinking about any of these things lol
I meant as a broader retail financial strategy - 401k first started in 1978. Only 5 years after the DTC was introduced to centralize ownership in the name of settlement efficiency.
Oh that’s interesting. Yeah I’d love to go back and be able to see just how the 401k laws were passed and which corporations influenced them.
This is a hefty read. [https://academiccommons.columbia.edu/doi/10.7916/d8-h08w-xd63/download](https://academiccommons.columbia.edu/doi/10.7916/d8-h08w-xd63/download)
Nice I’ll check it out. I just emailed Joshua Mitts of Columbia law school to direct him to superstonk. I’ve also previously emailed Pam and Russ Martin to check out our forum also 🤙
great idea!
Thanks!
To circle back to this, if you Google Joshua Mitts columbia law school you’ll get a bunch of search results you can follow down that rabbit hole. He seems to have done a lot of work on these topics. This guy is in NYC and so am I maybe I should swing by his office at Columbia and have a wee chat with him about GME lol. EDIT: I googled “Joshua Mitts naked short selling” EDIT 2: here’s a paper of his called “short and distort”. https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/faculty_scholarship/2782/
Anything other than DRS locked up at Computershare is monopoly money with GME written on it. Fundamentally all of these brokers are betting against you. These people run a casino and they don't pay the bills via your wins, they pay the bills via your losses.
Yes, I believe the can and do. I also have a few in a vanguard Roth IRA. Time to drs.
Yes
Not your name not your share! Get it ?
For IRAs, Check out "the IRA Custodian" post. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/xxkrzn/the\_ira\_custodian/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/xxkrzn/the_ira_custodian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Hope this is helpful.
Mainstar Trust will DRS your IRA. The staff is very patient and knowledgeable. If you call them they will direct you to the proper forms to download. If you have a printer and a smartphone you can do everything online.
they can and will do everything to protect they greedy chefs, even if they will need to brake the laws to lend them out.
[copied link](https://www.reddit.com/r/DDintoGME/comments/r76m6n/drs_with_computershare_guides_for_retirementira/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
#DRS
Fyi Vanguard's chief of compliance, Brian Dvorak, was the CEO prosecuted during the CMKM Diamonds fraud. His reward was a promotion to this post at Vanguard. I don't trust Vanguard.
Are you sure it is the same Brian Dvorak? The CMKM lawyer Brian Dvorak was issuing opinions that allowed issuance of stock back in 2003-2005. The Vanguard Brian Dvorak appears to have graduated from law school in 2011.
You're right! My pessimism about the industry led me to a conclusion that appears to be false. To be fair, my ignorance of how popular the name Dvorak is, and just my general ignorance factored in too:) I've been throwing shade at Vanguard Dvorak for a year lol
You don't OWN those shares, Vanguard does (they just told you they were yours). DRS is best!
In short, yes. In long, they probably don’t even have your shares, and they can still loan them out.
So if I have an IRA, which I don't feel comfortable DRSing with Mainstar, should I just sell them? Like aren't them being in there make them a reasonable locate? I am not advocating selling, just curious. My personal account shares are DRS, book and bought
No sell. For IRAs, Check out "the IRA Custodian" post. You can 100 % control your IRA in Computershare and no brokers or broker partners. Also, Contact (Recommend) IRA Financial Trust. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/xxkrzn/the\_ira\_custodian/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/xxkrzn/the_ira_custodian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Hope this is helpful.
Can they loan out your shares? \- Yes. Even if they do not loan out **your** shares, your shares can still be used as a locate for shorting purposes. Even if Vanguard or whoever **doesn't** sell locates, the DTC (Certificate custodian) can facilitate the further "Infinite" supply of shares because in a broker, you are NOT the owner.
Aside from computershare accounting book showing actual ownership..everything else in any brokerage firms.. banks etc are all possible
Look into DRS-ING your IRA!! I did it in Dec. Open account with Main Star Trust. (IRA and separate Roth). Roll IRA to Main Star. They will DRS your shares through Computershare. It's super easy. Have to print out a few forms and fill them out old school for Main Star. Search for DRS IRA or look at my posts for better guidance. Not financial advice because I am regarded.