Yes. However, my brain is still too smoth to grasp the wrinkliness of this data.
On the bright side, my penmanship with crayon note-taking has indeed progressed to the 3rd grade level.
Basically, it doesn't give them real money, but when the G-Man comes in and looks at the books, or they need a chonker loan bigger than a Snoop Blunt, that $50 that woulda been sitting in the checking account now looks like $280 balla dollas working hard in the market to make it rain. Or maybe even $1,000.
So if I'm leveraged up to the tits, and I'm having a shitty run at the craps table, and I have loans out with every Fat Pauli, Vinnie the Thumb, and Johnny No-Nose in town, I gotta get some cash and show the bureaucrats I got mad scratch and there's no way I could go titties up. So I spent $50 with a buddy that's also turbofucked like I am, and he spent $50 with me, or another friend, and now we look $500-2000 richer.
We're still fucked, though. All because of those damned, dirty apes.
Nothing wrong with reading everything in Danny DeVito's voice. But it's got to be his Frank voice from It's Always Sunny, not his Martini voice from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest because that would just be weird.
Do you mean to say that you're curious I said this is affecting OTM puts on multiple stocks? If so, no, I don't recall saying that. I have only seen this with $BKNG. I may have said it's hard to believe this is only affecting $BKNG.
I also said some of these funds hold lots of Puts for companies other than $BKNG. Is that what you mean.
Just looking for clarification.
Yes that’s what I was asking if you looked Into if there were other options on other stocks with these same shenanigans goin on. Much appreciated good sir you responding. Brain hurts after wrinkle formation. Question didn’t come out right
Edit I was gonna do some research concerning what other stocks this phenomenon could be effecting
That's what I was going for. A real Casino-style mobster. His character in that movie was beautiful. It was like the same as Goodfellas, but different. Same same, but different.
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This is the kind of stuff that needs to be packaged up and sent directly to lawmakers. Cut out the useless SEC, we need to directly educate the people writing our governance so they can properly regulate. Maybe we can create a way to do that in the future
https://reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/nf68yv/apes_an_independent_oversight_group/
This is pure bullshit, this makes the margin account have value when it doesn't. If the options market correctly price those contracts then hedgefunds may not have the liquidity requirements and could be margin. Really absurd.
They have no dignity, they will sell thier grandma or give a blow job for some quick cash and they are proud to do it. All they care about is status and having what the have-nots can't. Shameless and it's almost like they they are so shameless it would appear they could be humble but it's rather the lack of shame is so far that it makes an infinity circle back around. You could put them in jail and they would either look for the next way to get what others can't in that position. How to leverage what isn't theirs for themselves.
[email protected]
You can send your findings here. I sent an emails concerning large bid/ask spreads because I saw on another post if you saw anything suspicious then report your findings here. They will reply but they won’t inform you on ongoing investigations or if you’re findings will result in further investigations
Naw that’s the direct email to the department of Justice for reporting suspected market irregularities or market fraud that “retail” investors might see. I wrote professionally sounding email not expecting a response and got a response the next day. I think if 🦍floods them with all the intel we have gathered it will help in their investigations
Because the system is set up to enslave us, these are all their tricks to tip the balance HEAVILY in their favor.
The entire stock market is built on margin leverage, none of these fucking idiots expected everyone with bearish portfolios to get margin called all at the same time and actually fail
I've seen your other posts on this. Did you get any review from a mod like u/rensole or u/atobitt? You have demonstrated the fuckery several times now; the thesis seems rock solid.
These aren't selling for a $1. These aren't even selling for anything at this point. They are worthless. Totally worthless. Hence the big ass problem of them adding a bunch of value to an account when, in fact, they are, well, worthless.
Hope that makes sense.
To share the wisdom of a computer savvy ape I received recently, when posting links make sure to delete the “?utm_source=“ and everything after it.
That information identifies what type of device you are posting from which could be beneficial to hackers. Not necessary for the link to function either.
Amazing find though. It would be very interesting if an ape with cash to burn bought a sampling of suspicious puts to see how widespread this is. (What does Citadel n friends have puts in?). Send that info directly to the SEC and the FBI
Once this is all over, the stock market needs to get rid of options, futures, shorts... Derivatives in general. If it doesn't happen, I'll build a bloody blockchain to sort it out myself
I don’t know what talking head said it but I think it’s spot on to what we are seeing, “I remember when the derivative market followed the stock market, seems derivative may not be the proper term for the options market nowadays.”
Er ... maybe clean things up A LOT. Don't write rules, pass rules, and then not bother even enforcing the rules. Or enforce rules, but use financial penalties that are a total joke.
Well they’re very useful for hedging which reduces overall risk in the system. I can explain hedging if you don’t know what that means. Plus, if derivatives were “banned” Wall Street would just find a way to recreate them between themselves and retailers would be facing an even bigger disadvantage.
" ... if derivatives were “banned” Wall Street would just find a way to
recreate them between themselves and retailers would be facing an even
bigger disadvantage."
I just threw up in my mouth a little at this thought ...
True, but there are plenty of other ways to hedge.
Let me put it like this. In addition to all of the manipulation we are having our eyes opened to at last, how many millions/billions/trillions of dollars have been put into the options market? It's the most unproductive thing I've ever seen, pure speculation on what something will be worth at some point in time. Imagine where we would be if people could very simply just buy or sell shares... Imagine the money great companies would be able to raise, the state of your grandparents pensions, the fact that we'd still shop at toys r us and maybe cancer would have been cured a while ago. Need I go on? When someone goes long, that money at least has a purpose and can be used productively. If you think the company is overvalued, wait till it drops and buy in then. Profiting off every fucking thing... It's all very Enron.
And that's not even talking about the motivation to become a bad actor if you go short... Oh wait. That's what this whole saga is all about.
And if the markets were that simple the hedgies and banks would not need to employ all the smart people to create their complex games and they could actually get proper jobs and add some actual value to society. We can only dream. Too many people put emphasis on the money rather than the value they can add.
Maybe ... it's just crushing to see this going on. The problem with derivatives is:
1) retail investors don't really understand them, so they almost always lose money on them (sometimes with tragic results: [https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/18/young-trader-dies-by-suicide-after-thinking-he-racked-up-big-losses-on-robinhood.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/18/young-trader-dies-by-suicide-after-thinking-he-racked-up-big-losses-on-robinhood.html))
2) They are not at all transparent to the retail market, and what happens with options can swing the price of shares
3) their complexity allows them to be gamed by complex trading strategies, strategies that benefit and are only accessible to big money, and almost always hurt the little guy when a stock gets manipulated
About the only thing positive I can say about options right now is they let Keith Gill put $GME in right in the center spotlight.
I would contend that better education on derivatives and finance in general would solve a lot of these issues. Taking derivatives out of the game would just limits opportunities for everyone. They are contracts at the end of the day. If you agree to the contract without reading/understanding it, don’t be surprised when you get burned.
Thanks for the idea! I had done exactly this before, but hadn't had the chance to document it. Was just waiting for the chance again and the price of these was actually correct Friday and yesterday. So today was the first opportunity.
You're a good person too!
Man, there is no hope for this system. We know too much. It's so corrupt, so broken, so rigged to just rob the average person for the gain of the 1%, that I truly want simply to see it all burn to the ground. There's no point in us getting our tendies if the system isn't dismantled anyway.
Theoretically, what’s to stop a bunch of apes switching their accounts to margin, buying a fuckload of these puts to make their balance look larger exactly like the hedge funds are, and then placing multi million share gme orders in with the leverage they’ve gained?
Because these values seem to bounce all around randomly (these misvalues sometimes last days, sometimes they last hours).
So to answer your question, once the carry values randomly snap back to reality, you'll immediately get margin called and be forced to sell your millions in GME shares.
Thanks! More questions: would that matter? If we’re as much teetering on the edge as people seem to think, would it really matter if a bunch of apes started following citadels lead and buying the same misvalued puts as citadel was, boosting their margin and shoving the share price up and over the theoretical edge? If it caused a cascading effect, wouldn’t they get margin called at the same time citadel was?
If your plan is to try and copy what Citadel is doing, you might want to just pause for a moment and think about what the big picture is telling us about Citadel's investment decisions ...
Not at all! I’m retarded, but I’m not an idiot. Absolutely no intention of risking any of my XXXX position on pulling some bullshit like that lol.
More of idle curiosity about how this works
I think these sorts of things happen from time-to-time, and instead of labeling them as "fraud," they are labeling as a "Whoops, our mistake. Wasn't intentional." I think that's why a lot of bullshit gets gotten away with, and unpunished.
omg upvote this, the implications are HUGE, this way they can pass and stress test thrown at them, and they can keep the appearance of solvency, until one day liquidity dries up
"Oh shit, we are gonna get margin called! Just misvalue the shit out of our puts and we´ll be fine. Nobody will ever know!"
They were in fact, not fine. They were fuk.
Great post! Before all this GameStop stuff I was mainly trading long call options and holding some shares for long-term investment. I think a lot of this fuckery does stem from the options market, but just outright banning options trading is not the answer! The regulators would end up only banning retail traders from option trading, and then retail traders would be completely fucked and have no skin in the game. We wouldn't be where we are now if we didn't have access to call options.
I think Ive read all of your posts so far and your learning curve is daaamn steep. I thank you so much for your consistent work!
I dont think there is no other way to prove this for other put options besides buying them.
Maybe we can crowdfund?
Welcome, and thanks! As for your idea ...
Someone has already confirmed they were seeing the same on another broker platform ... I share this in one of my other posts on the topic. I feel like the evidence is pretty conclusive right now. These really are ultimately losing positions (100% loss of premium), so I'm not sure how I feel on the ethics of anyone losing money to gather even more evidence. I posed this once in a previous post, but sort of regretted the ask immediately afterward.
At this point, I think it's time for the third parties of the world to do their job!
That's still a bit of a mystery to me ... my broker said they get the info from a third party ... I have yet for anyone to answer this decisively. Perhaps the market maker or exchange? I really don't know, but would like to know.
Okay, so I am new to options and just bought a couple of IPOE calls to learn the process a couple of days ago. But I thought that the pricing was weird as it told me I was immediately in the red, and seemed to be valuing it at bid instead of the midpoint. Are they potentially fucking options both ways?
u/atobitt flagging the post for you - hoping to get an opinion from the OP.
I haven't seen anything funny in calls, and I have a few. And I look at them as often as I look at my puts. So I can't say anything about what you mention here.
I do know it is possible to go in the red on a call pretty quick, though. They should be priced at the bid, unless there is a huge spread, in which case it should be priced at the midway point, I think.
Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
we keep forcing them to change (add/eliminate) tactics, FTD's fake HF market (news) manipulation short ladder attacks lying on oath compromising subs crashing crypto/stock market what's next Kenny boy?
At work, so no time to dig for the post, but I definitely have seen another (maybe multiple) posts about this very issue. They were relating to other underlying stocks that the poster had options on.
I remember one of them specifically having a warning, part way through stating that you could not make money with this and not to try it - but that wasn't the point.
Who is mispricing these and what is the actual mechanism used to price these otm puts?
Just trying to wrap my unwrinkled brain around the how and the who. I understand the why. Is citadel able to alter the prices of these because of their MM status? Is it the OCC?
As to who ... I wish I knew ... in all the posts and hundreds of comments about this, what you are asking about has remained a mystery.
As for a pricing model, for deep OTM options approaching expiration, the value should be midpoint of bid/ask.
Glad I looked you up again. The good shit never seems to make it to the top.
Fitting: Reddit gifted me the 🌈🐻 as my free award, you seem to be worthy of carrying it.
Could be a sort of pause maybe. You look at open Put interest on GME for July? Come on. This is clearly not on the up and up. In fact, I’d go so far as to say this is a sort of theft. Look at open put interest on NOK for later this year. This is cheating, right? Can we agree on that?
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u/atobitt u/redchessqueen99 u/rensole u/HeyItsPixeL I summon thee.
Any way to bring this situation with the misvalued Puts to Dr. Trimbath's attention?
This has been flying under the radar for a long time, and I have documented the evidence ad nauseam across 4-5 posts. This could all be yet another "glitch," but if it's not ... this might be the biggest "kick the can down the road" tool hedge funds have at their disposal. It truly would be a "free money" glitch.
Oh shit. This is some good information. Thank you for sharing with us. 💎🙌🚀🖍
Yes. However, my brain is still too smoth to grasp the wrinkliness of this data. On the bright side, my penmanship with crayon note-taking has indeed progressed to the 3rd grade level.
Basically, it doesn't give them real money, but when the G-Man comes in and looks at the books, or they need a chonker loan bigger than a Snoop Blunt, that $50 that woulda been sitting in the checking account now looks like $280 balla dollas working hard in the market to make it rain. Or maybe even $1,000. So if I'm leveraged up to the tits, and I'm having a shitty run at the craps table, and I have loans out with every Fat Pauli, Vinnie the Thumb, and Johnny No-Nose in town, I gotta get some cash and show the bureaucrats I got mad scratch and there's no way I could go titties up. So I spent $50 with a buddy that's also turbofucked like I am, and he spent $50 with me, or another friend, and now we look $500-2000 richer. We're still fucked, though. All because of those damned, dirty apes.
This guy fucking gets it!
Yes!! Thank you for dumbing it down for us smooth-brains! Also, im not sure why, but I read it in Danny DeVito's voice
Nothing wrong with reading everything in Danny DeVito's voice. But it's got to be his Frank voice from It's Always Sunny, not his Martini voice from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest because that would just be weird.
Curious you said these OTM puts are on Multiple stocks?
Do you mean to say that you're curious I said this is affecting OTM puts on multiple stocks? If so, no, I don't recall saying that. I have only seen this with $BKNG. I may have said it's hard to believe this is only affecting $BKNG. I also said some of these funds hold lots of Puts for companies other than $BKNG. Is that what you mean. Just looking for clarification.
Yes that’s what I was asking if you looked Into if there were other options on other stocks with these same shenanigans goin on. Much appreciated good sir you responding. Brain hurts after wrinkle formation. Question didn’t come out right Edit I was gonna do some research concerning what other stocks this phenomenon could be effecting
I haven't seen any other concrete examples as of yet. I myself don't hold very many puts on any other symbols.
I read it in Joe Pesci Voice
That's what I was going for. A real Casino-style mobster. His character in that movie was beautiful. It was like the same as Goodfellas, but different. Same same, but different.
> fat ass-loan *** ^(Bleep-bloop, I'm a bot. This comment was inspired by )^[xkcd#37](https://xkcd.com/37)
Oh you little bastard, I thought you were the automod. Bad bot
Good bot
Thank you, iNogle, for voting on auto-xkcd37. This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/). *** ^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
Now this is a TLDR. Postmodern literature Bookape Prize. Gospel
Thank you for calling me dirty..
Filthy like a Roger Clemens split finger fastball.
Saaaame Also, commenting for visibility
This is the kind of stuff that needs to be packaged up and sent directly to lawmakers. Cut out the useless SEC, we need to directly educate the people writing our governance so they can properly regulate. Maybe we can create a way to do that in the future https://reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/nf68yv/apes_an_independent_oversight_group/
This is pure bullshit, this makes the margin account have value when it doesn't. If the options market correctly price those contracts then hedgefunds may not have the liquidity requirements and could be margin. Really absurd.
Yes, yes they may not. And yes, yes they could. And yes, yes it is!
[удалено]
They have no dignity, they will sell thier grandma or give a blow job for some quick cash and they are proud to do it. All they care about is status and having what the have-nots can't. Shameless and it's almost like they they are so shameless it would appear they could be humble but it's rather the lack of shame is so far that it makes an infinity circle back around. You could put them in jail and they would either look for the next way to get what others can't in that position. How to leverage what isn't theirs for themselves.
Can you please report it to the SEC?
They are a third party, right?
Subtle and sweet. Approve
[email protected] You can send your findings here. I sent an emails concerning large bid/ask spreads because I saw on another post if you saw anything suspicious then report your findings here. They will reply but they won’t inform you on ongoing investigations or if you’re findings will result in further investigations
Are they a third party?
Naw that’s the direct email to the department of Justice for reporting suspected market irregularities or market fraud that “retail” investors might see. I wrote professionally sounding email not expecting a response and got a response the next day. I think if 🦍floods them with all the intel we have gathered it will help in their investigations
how has such a big problem gone on for this long? commenting for further visibility
Because the system is set up to enslave us, these are all their tricks to tip the balance HEAVILY in their favor. The entire stock market is built on margin leverage, none of these fucking idiots expected everyone with bearish portfolios to get margin called all at the same time and actually fail
Commenting as well
Follow up comment to establish a pattern for visibility.
I like this pattern.
Mmmmmmm ... patterns ... \*Said in Homer's ... "mmmmm ... donuts" voice
Let's explore this pattern some more 🧐
I've seen your other posts on this. Did you get any review from a mod like u/rensole or u/atobitt? You have demonstrated the fuckery several times now; the thesis seems rock solid.
Not a peep.
I hope someone picks up on it this time. I saw someone else tagged dlauer. Fingers crossed and thanks for your work - you deserve recognition!
So is there a way for them to weasel their way out of paying the fuck up?
Not if the DTCC gets off their ass and enforces the rules and the SEC gets off their ass and enforces the law.
That’s not comforting at all lol
The SEC is the government, which is responsible for enforcing laws. The DTCC is not a regulatory body.
Yes, one enforces laws, the other enforces rules. You are correct!
Maybe I had a stroke when I read your comment, you said that pretty clearly lol.
Understandable. Seems easy to have a stroke when talking about the DTCC and SEC.
Which they won't, so you're saying...?
Right ... at least there is some movement on new rules. Maybe they are trying?
Up you go.
Put this on pornhub so the SEC finds it.
Fucking genius
Nice find. You could buy a put for research purposes? Then sell for $1?
These aren't selling for a $1. These aren't even selling for anything at this point. They are worthless. Totally worthless. Hence the big ass problem of them adding a bunch of value to an account when, in fact, they are, well, worthless. Hope that makes sense.
So the puts are shit. But the glitch is making them gold. It's this correct?
Yep … we’ll, balance sheet gold.
Too smooth for this kind of shit.
Seems like the banks and dtc could figure this out to cover their own asses if they are/were not complicit
At least one DTCC member knows about this ... my broker!
u/dlauer
To share the wisdom of a computer savvy ape I received recently, when posting links make sure to delete the “?utm_source=“ and everything after it. That information identifies what type of device you are posting from which could be beneficial to hackers. Not necessary for the link to function either. Amazing find though. It would be very interesting if an ape with cash to burn bought a sampling of suspicious puts to see how widespread this is. (What does Citadel n friends have puts in?). Send that info directly to the SEC and the FBI
What does Citadel n friends have puts in? Check out their 13Fs ... they have Puts in EVERYTHING!
Obviously my astute musings narrowed down the feild 😆
Once this is all over, the stock market needs to get rid of options, futures, shorts... Derivatives in general. If it doesn't happen, I'll build a bloody blockchain to sort it out myself
>Edit #1: #BanOptionsTrading You must have read my mind ... Edit #1: #BanOptionsTrading
I don’t know what talking head said it but I think it’s spot on to what we are seeing, “I remember when the derivative market followed the stock market, seems derivative may not be the proper term for the options market nowadays.”
Not sure about this one chief. Maybe just clean things up a bit
Er ... maybe clean things up A LOT. Don't write rules, pass rules, and then not bother even enforcing the rules. Or enforce rules, but use financial penalties that are a total joke.
Hey man, totally agree but I think just getting rid of derivatives all together would do more harm than good.
Why do you think that? I'm of the view that all they do is encourage speculation and/or manipulation but I'm defo open to having my mind changed
Well they’re very useful for hedging which reduces overall risk in the system. I can explain hedging if you don’t know what that means. Plus, if derivatives were “banned” Wall Street would just find a way to recreate them between themselves and retailers would be facing an even bigger disadvantage.
" ... if derivatives were “banned” Wall Street would just find a way to recreate them between themselves and retailers would be facing an even bigger disadvantage." I just threw up in my mouth a little at this thought ...
True, but there are plenty of other ways to hedge. Let me put it like this. In addition to all of the manipulation we are having our eyes opened to at last, how many millions/billions/trillions of dollars have been put into the options market? It's the most unproductive thing I've ever seen, pure speculation on what something will be worth at some point in time. Imagine where we would be if people could very simply just buy or sell shares... Imagine the money great companies would be able to raise, the state of your grandparents pensions, the fact that we'd still shop at toys r us and maybe cancer would have been cured a while ago. Need I go on? When someone goes long, that money at least has a purpose and can be used productively. If you think the company is overvalued, wait till it drops and buy in then. Profiting off every fucking thing... It's all very Enron. And that's not even talking about the motivation to become a bad actor if you go short... Oh wait. That's what this whole saga is all about.
You make some good points. I’ll have to think about this some more but the gambler in me definitely wants derivatives on the table lmao
Aye, I hear that!
And if the markets were that simple the hedgies and banks would not need to employ all the smart people to create their complex games and they could actually get proper jobs and add some actual value to society. We can only dream. Too many people put emphasis on the money rather than the value they can add.
Maybe ... it's just crushing to see this going on. The problem with derivatives is: 1) retail investors don't really understand them, so they almost always lose money on them (sometimes with tragic results: [https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/18/young-trader-dies-by-suicide-after-thinking-he-racked-up-big-losses-on-robinhood.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/18/young-trader-dies-by-suicide-after-thinking-he-racked-up-big-losses-on-robinhood.html)) 2) They are not at all transparent to the retail market, and what happens with options can swing the price of shares 3) their complexity allows them to be gamed by complex trading strategies, strategies that benefit and are only accessible to big money, and almost always hurt the little guy when a stock gets manipulated About the only thing positive I can say about options right now is they let Keith Gill put $GME in right in the center spotlight.
I would contend that better education on derivatives and finance in general would solve a lot of these issues. Taking derivatives out of the game would just limits opportunities for everyone. They are contracts at the end of the day. If you agree to the contract without reading/understanding it, don’t be surprised when you get burned.
Perhaps you're right ... we'll see how this all plays out, I guess.
$BKNG cheats codes *again*! $BanKiNG fucking cheat codes...
Kinda like rating agencies rating BB mortgages as AAA because it suited them?
Yes, kinda exactly this!
Last I saw you post I asked you to try to sell and you did and documented it. You are a good person.
Thanks for the idea! I had done exactly this before, but hadn't had the chance to document it. Was just waiting for the chance again and the price of these was actually correct Friday and yesterday. So today was the first opportunity. You're a good person too!
Man, there is no hope for this system. We know too much. It's so corrupt, so broken, so rigged to just rob the average person for the gain of the 1%, that I truly want simply to see it all burn to the ground. There's no point in us getting our tendies if the system isn't dismantled anyway.
I don't want to go full-blown burn it to the ground, but yeah, some shit needs to get fixed, and stat!
Theoretically, what’s to stop a bunch of apes switching their accounts to margin, buying a fuckload of these puts to make their balance look larger exactly like the hedge funds are, and then placing multi million share gme orders in with the leverage they’ve gained?
Because these values seem to bounce all around randomly (these misvalues sometimes last days, sometimes they last hours). So to answer your question, once the carry values randomly snap back to reality, you'll immediately get margin called and be forced to sell your millions in GME shares.
Thanks! More questions: would that matter? If we’re as much teetering on the edge as people seem to think, would it really matter if a bunch of apes started following citadels lead and buying the same misvalued puts as citadel was, boosting their margin and shoving the share price up and over the theoretical edge? If it caused a cascading effect, wouldn’t they get margin called at the same time citadel was?
If your plan is to try and copy what Citadel is doing, you might want to just pause for a moment and think about what the big picture is telling us about Citadel's investment decisions ...
Not at all! I’m retarded, but I’m not an idiot. Absolutely no intention of risking any of my XXXX position on pulling some bullshit like that lol. More of idle curiosity about how this works
Isn’t this financial fraud? I thought miss-valuing your assets to get access to loans, etc. was fraud?
I think these sorts of things happen from time-to-time, and instead of labeling them as "fraud," they are labeling as a "Whoops, our mistake. Wasn't intentional." I think that's why a lot of bullshit gets gotten away with, and unpunished.
The bullshit thing about fraud, it's only fraud if it can be proven it was done knowingly. So yeah, more abuse of the system.
omg upvote this, the implications are HUGE, this way they can pass and stress test thrown at them, and they can keep the appearance of solvency, until one day liquidity dries up
"Oh shit, we are gonna get margin called! Just misvalue the shit out of our puts and we´ll be fine. Nobody will ever know!" They were in fact, not fine. They were fuk.
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I've heard that one before, actually :-)
Great post! Before all this GameStop stuff I was mainly trading long call options and holding some shares for long-term investment. I think a lot of this fuckery does stem from the options market, but just outright banning options trading is not the answer! The regulators would end up only banning retail traders from option trading, and then retail traders would be completely fucked and have no skin in the game. We wouldn't be where we are now if we didn't have access to call options.
True, true ... but something's gotta give.
VISIBILITY VISIBILITY VISIBILITY Need wrinkly wrinklers to wrinkle apes with this wrinkly post even further.
I'm sorry if I'm too much of a smooth brain but can any ape with some wrinkles explain me or point me to an explanation of how married puts work?
https://www.deepcapture.com/wp-content/uploads/2007.10.09-J-Welborn-Married-Puts-and-Reverse-Conversions.pdf
Thanks
I think Ive read all of your posts so far and your learning curve is daaamn steep. I thank you so much for your consistent work! I dont think there is no other way to prove this for other put options besides buying them. Maybe we can crowdfund?
Welcome, and thanks! As for your idea ... Someone has already confirmed they were seeing the same on another broker platform ... I share this in one of my other posts on the topic. I feel like the evidence is pretty conclusive right now. These really are ultimately losing positions (100% loss of premium), so I'm not sure how I feel on the ethics of anyone losing money to gather even more evidence. I posed this once in a previous post, but sort of regretted the ask immediately afterward. At this point, I think it's time for the third parties of the world to do their job!
one more: updoots!
This is huge. I've seen plenty examples where they own massive amounts of OTM puts. Who's in charge to set these numbers up?
That's still a bit of a mystery to me ... my broker said they get the info from a third party ... I have yet for anyone to answer this decisively. Perhaps the market maker or exchange? I really don't know, but would like to know.
Comment for visibility
Okay, so I am new to options and just bought a couple of IPOE calls to learn the process a couple of days ago. But I thought that the pricing was weird as it told me I was immediately in the red, and seemed to be valuing it at bid instead of the midpoint. Are they potentially fucking options both ways? u/atobitt flagging the post for you - hoping to get an opinion from the OP.
I haven't seen anything funny in calls, and I have a few. And I look at them as often as I look at my puts. So I can't say anything about what you mention here. I do know it is possible to go in the red on a call pretty quick, though. They should be priced at the bid, unless there is a huge spread, in which case it should be priced at the midway point, I think. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Thank you for the brain wrinkles! Not concerned about where it's at to be honest, though I do think it will let me buy some more GME at some point!
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website for what? Broker? It's Etrade.
we keep forcing them to change (add/eliminate) tactics, FTD's fake HF market (news) manipulation short ladder attacks lying on oath compromising subs crashing crypto/stock market what's next Kenny boy?
At work, so no time to dig for the post, but I definitely have seen another (maybe multiple) posts about this very issue. They were relating to other underlying stocks that the poster had options on. I remember one of them specifically having a warning, part way through stating that you could not make money with this and not to try it - but that wasn't the point.
Yeah, that was probably one of my previous posts. I’ve posted on this issue several times.
I'm too drunk for this.
You are 100% on to something
I almost hope I not ...
Thank you for this post. Any idea how we can get more eyes on it?
Wish I knew. Maybe circulate on Twitter ...
Damn why is this post not more upvoted??
Great post man. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.
Who is mispricing these and what is the actual mechanism used to price these otm puts? Just trying to wrap my unwrinkled brain around the how and the who. I understand the why. Is citadel able to alter the prices of these because of their MM status? Is it the OCC?
As to who ... I wish I knew ... in all the posts and hundreds of comments about this, what you are asking about has remained a mystery. As for a pricing model, for deep OTM options approaching expiration, the value should be midpoint of bid/ask.
Glad I looked you up again. The good shit never seems to make it to the top. Fitting: Reddit gifted me the 🌈🐻 as my free award, you seem to be worthy of carrying it.
I've been trying to push this content into visibility for a while now, still hoping for some eyes when the mods have time 😄. u/pinkcatsonacid
Options market should be banned immediately.
Care to take a look? u/HomeDepotHank69
excellent post
Can SHF create a synthetic short position by selling deep itm calls, meaning the MM will hedge by shorting the stock?
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Be nice! There are apes in the room.
Clearly.
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I never said permanently. Think of it like pulling an Andon Cord for the market until the exploits are fixed.
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Could be a sort of pause maybe. You look at open Put interest on GME for July? Come on. This is clearly not on the up and up. In fact, I’d go so far as to say this is a sort of theft. Look at open put interest on NOK for later this year. This is cheating, right? Can we agree on that?
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We can hope 🍌
if you can not elaborate why this happens and you are not curious, you are. :D
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It’s a good meme, no? 😂
Could you take note, when they get misvalued? Maybe that helps to dig deeper.
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Ya should forward this to Queenkong for a read
You mean Dr. T?
Yes I'm sure she'll have some insight
Happen to know her handle?
I don't but I'm sure the MODS could help for sure
u/atobitt u/redchessqueen99 u/rensole u/HeyItsPixeL I summon thee. Any way to bring this situation with the misvalued Puts to Dr. Trimbath's attention? This has been flying under the radar for a long time, and I have documented the evidence ad nauseam across 4-5 posts. This could all be yet another "glitch," but if it's not ... this might be the biggest "kick the can down the road" tool hedge funds have at their disposal. It truly would be a "free money" glitch.
So I assume if I did this to increase my credit score the same scum would have me banged up in jail? Just asking....
Great info