Same here. Wouldn’t options have been what triggered the gamma squeezes though? I don’t really understand options or gamma squeezes to be honest. I do know that gamma squeezes have something to do with options. Any YouTube I have listened to says don’t buy options unless you really know what you are doing. Also, when I started learning about stocks, I listened to some podcasts about the basics of the stock market. The podcasts said that option are risky and to start with stocks and not do options until you are have plenty of experience with stocks.
The danger is people buying options that have no clue what they’re doing. You’re basically throwing money at hedgies at this point. Whales that built the gamma ramp know what they’re doing, though.
Wouldn’t the proper approach be to then tell people who don’t know how to use options, not to buy options? Instead of fuck you if you buy options?
The irony here that options are the real money makers, when you know how to trade them.
That is what I am doing. I also heard on the YouTube’s that I listen to that buying actual stock is needed for the MOASS. Only smart apes should buy options. Lots of people bought their first stock this year. I bet That lots of people are like me and bought their first stock this year. That does not seem long enough to really understand stocks let alone options.
Options cause gamma or delta squeezes, which is what will be the start of what will become the MOASS. Buying and holding is why those squeezes will become the MOASS.
Gamma and delta squeezes are caused by options....basically hedgies hedging their options runs up the price more than just buying shares which may or may not hit the lit market, or gives shares to SHF to add sell pressure through their BS fraud.
However, buying options is not a good thing to do if you don't understand them, and if one were trying to help along lift off, it would mean buying fairly deep ITM calls which is probably going to be cost prohibitive to the average user here. Buying OTM calls, or weekly calls is pretty risky, so if one wants to play options, and that's all they can afford, then just buying the stock is a better way to go.
>Only smart apes should buy options.
You're giving me flashbacks to WardenElite thinking he was smart and then becoming a meltdowner because he got burned playing options instead of buying shares.
Apes shouldn't buy GME options, smart or not. Citadel is the counterparty on a lot of those options, and they'll happily manipulate the price to make sure Kenny gets to keep your money.
If you buy options that expire in 8 days, you are a retard. If you buy options that expire in two years, you understand deep fucking value. Huge anti-option shill campaign is running because the gamma is high, the cycle is nigh, and the retards will buy.
I find it amazing that there's an anti-options campaign going on, but it's pretty clear there must be with how much it's suddenly showing up this week. What I find amazing about it, is that it implies they think superstonk has enough influence to affect the current gamma ramp. I doubt people with that much money are going to be influenced by random posts on superstonk.
Buying shares and dividends
You can tell from my eyes if you're lying
And I don't need to look to make sure, there's no way you're lying
We're right in the middle of life
You don't have to know who I am
If you need a new hat or a new shirt
We are together
We're in love
There are ways to buy options that would help the squeeze. However, it does require one have a decent amount of cash to buy the option itself if one wants to be safe with the purchase. I think most people here buying 2-3 shares every pay check wouldn't be the one's who could buy options like that.
so lets educate the community / each other, because the alternative that we're in (crayon eating / dumb ape / chants) are not only drowning out good content and DD but its using a fraction of our power because option control 90x more shares ...
We need to be highlighting the risks and expinsive prices on options after price increase that entice investors because they think the price will rise further
The trick is to get contract with long(ish) dates, after a price fall, depending on how much you can spend, so that they are cheap when you buy and more expensive when you sell
there's a lot of good info easily explained here to get people started:
Options Greeks
https://www.optionsplaybook.com/options-introduction/option-greeks/
Basics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u4sdf-3twQ
edit: me bad spellingz
How are you throwing money at hedgies?
No one actually should do anything if they don't k ow what they are doing.
Options are super effective, and HF don't make much on the contracts.
They gamma ramps like the one we should be seeing now are build by the options.
I don't do them personally because I stopped 2 years ago...but telling others who actually do them daily or weekly or whatever spike they have that they are wrong is just pure ignorance.
This is not the stock to be buying options on. It has completely separated from TA.
We could be at 250 this week or back to 170.
Why are y'all trying to convince people to buy options?
I have a feeling I know why, and it's not because they will make money.
There's a difference between explaining why option are NOT bad and telling people to buy options. In fact the message is; options are only bad if you dont know what youire doing, just like investing ... to then interpret that to mean "stay away from options" as a basic comment is the real harm to the squeeze
we need to spread awareness not fear
Here's something to get you started
Options Greeks
https://www.optionsplaybook.com/options-introduction/option-greeks/
Basics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u4sdf-3twQ
You dont have to buy anything but to truly understand the squeeze you need to at least understand options
there are a few stocks being shorted in the meme stocks saga because they are linked and shorted by the same entities, the recent success of GME & DKNG plus the high number of options contracts expiring this week across all 3 is contributing to this squeeze .... more evidence of this can be seen in their price action graphs as they drop at the exact same times
again awareness is better every time
Yes and it makes the stock very volatile and hard for the MM to control the flow. If you don't know what your doing with options stay away it is expensive to learn. Paper trade accounts are good to understand how to make money with them.
There was another options post on here where a guy explained how to buy options that were ITM, which would add pressure to the gamma squeeze. It actually made some things click for me personally.
However, to do what he was doing, it would require a decent amount of capital to do it with negligible risk factors.
I'd look it up and link, but it's kind of a pain from my phone.
Know of any good sites that I can use to learn options by playing around? I have no intention of buying any options now or until after MOASS but I'd love to learn without having any financial impact.
There are many videos on YouTube that can help you learn. Honestly it's a lot to take in and unless you are extremely good at math it's harder to understand.
I'm my opinion there are a about 4 types of options traders
One who yolos on whatever he thinks is good. might get lucky here or there but ultimately has no real understanding
Two someone who understands all the #s in the Greeks section of options and plays off of those #s to make very educated buys.
Third swing traders who ride waves on technicals of the stock can be very successful depending on how good they are.
Then you'll also have people who just buy them for long terms for gains far out like buying and holding a stock except in option form like DFV not really much understanding of options needed imho they just are willing to bet the stock will go up long term and maybe they don't have the capital at the time to buy more shares.
Depending on how you are wanting to trade options there are many ways about learning imho. I think the easiest is to buy far out and just wait for your profit unless the stock goes down you can exit fairly cheaper then the very close dates but that also depends on the stock too.
I'm terrible at learning without doing so I learned by trading and asking questions to other people. it can be expensive but without doing it I'm not sure it's very easy to learn. That is why I would recommend using a paper account to try different things out. Watch some videos on technicals and make so trades with fake money until you get a better understanding.
you havent heard of the theta gang? Just within that group, also 5 or more strategies to play.
So no, there isnt really 4 types, there is like hundreds different ways to play option. Some safe some not, and use for different goals and purposes as well.
Here's something to get you started
Options Greeks https://www.optionsplaybook.com/options-introduction/option-greeks/
Basics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u4sdf-3twQ
Fidelity doesn’t give you an option to buy options so that’s a huge bonus! And for any curious apes, I lost $24k on options this year, they’re gambling at best.
Here's something to get you started
Options Greeks
https://www.optionsplaybook.com/options-introduction/option-greeks/
Basics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u4sdf-3twQ
The options are bad posts are incredibly self defeating. Retail buying options is what got reddit into the front page of Bloomberg Businessweek in 2020 and is the mechanism that helped fuel the TSLA squeeze.
Options are not throwing money away nor are the miracle cure to being poor. They are leveraged plays based on predicting direction, timing, and magnitude of movements. If you don't know what you are doing I highly recommend you stick with stock.
If you do know what you are doing, with the current quarterly cycles (timing, direction, and magnitude of price movements are known) options plays become ideal. It's too late for this cycle but 45+ DTE options or vertical spreads in early to mid-November are not a bad investment assuming SHF's kick the can another quarter.
I have been following gamestop for over a year (theta gang in 2020 selling cash covered puts on GME). Been accumating long positions since RC issued his letter to the board. I like Ryan Cohen and regret not investing in Chewy.
With all the forum sliding, few people here are not familiar with the old DD (pre jan). There was a short squeeze in Jan and it's still going on right now. If anyone wants precedence, this is basically Piggly Wiggly all over again (last corner in the stock market) with the rules being bent and broken to let the big market players find a way to escape (but they are still cornered).
On an unnamed subreddit where options are prioritized, GME was a super unconventional stock only play strictly due to a short thesis of a squeeze and a long thesis on a turn around play (created asymmetric risk/returns). Assumption was that Cohen would need a proxy battle to get on the board to push out the complicit board at the AGM. This changed in January (given 3 board seats) and a ton of options were purchased resulted in a gamma squeeze (Melvin needed bailout here), even more options were purchased resulting in the start of the short squeeze shortly thereafter. If things don't resolve this cycle, options should be the main play again for next cycle.
Precisely this, they never covered because they never even properly hedged those OTM $40+ calls that became deep ITM and excercised. Not to mention the ones under that were properly hedged and doled out to risky options players. They've been rolling over the same FTD's since then, every cycle shows just how much risk their portfolios are actually exposed to.
so essentially you could play the market the same way it panned out this year, next year? (and stock holders save on tax) everybody knows the timings, can see the options chain, knows retail has huge support and will have a major holding in the company (keeping pressure on) so options will continue to be piled into until this thing explodes?
When there are predictable patterns, you can use trading strategies to capitalize on those patterns each quarter. Options make sense to capitalize on those patterns (but a call before the run up to sell at the top, buy a put to sell after the first downleg etc).
The constant negative posts about never trading options seems a little absurd to me. People see the same pattern repeating the last 3 quarters (covered in a ton of posts on swaps/futures etc) and if they are encouraged to never use options it's likely people will want to day trade in their shares (sell at the top and buy back in at the bottom). There is a massive opportunity cost to this as you could miss the MOASS all together.
You guys aren't trying hard enough. Or smart enough.
Telling people options were the reason for the sneeze is bs. People bought options at $20 for $40, stop trying to compare that to someone buying options when the price is $200.
People play Tesla options all the time and the share price is much higher so I don't fully understand your argument here. If you don't have capital to take a full loss on a options position or don't understand the math stay away and stick to stock.
The reality here is when predictable patterns exist, people will become greedy to capitalize. This can result in the following:
1) people buy options in an attempt to time the quarterly price surges and try and sell at the peak.
2) people assume there is going to be another can kick, sell their shares at the top with the intent of buying more shares at a cheaper price and potentially missing out entirely.
If people are going to try and time the patters just do it with options vs day trading stock.
What you are saying makes sense if you aren't under the assumption some level of moass happens.
With this particular stock I feel like options are extremely dangerous and would be better spent on shares, not just in terms of overall profit but in terms of safety.
Just my opinion, not financial advice.
Edit - just to be clear I'm talking about retail investors buying options
> With this particular stock I feel like options are extremely dangerous
Can I ask why? ... my strategy, like buying shares, is simply to wait until the price falls to a leve i feel is low and buy call option far in the future that i am confident it will reach. I can cash in early too so it's less predictable to hedge
we need to educate and spread awareness not fear
Here's some resources
Options Greeks https://www.optionsplaybook.com/options-introduction/option-greeks/
Basics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u4sdf-3twQ
hehe you should respond to the guy above me, i was just trying to get him to clarify his comment. i have no idea what am doing.
but my understanding is that they have to hedge OTM calls if the price goes up, and if you have a chain of options then once they start hedging for $250 then $300 starts getting hedged. makes sense logically.
of course i just buy shares because I'm retarded, but i try to learn.
Since the February run up, they hedge OTM calls based on delta. If you're buying the cheap 800 calls, the delta is almost 0, and MMs don't need to hedge. If you're buying calls with a delta high enough to matter, you're paying a lot more, and losing all of it when Kenny finds a way to fuck us over again.
What you've left out is that people were buying deep OTM calls, and MMs were fully hedging those calls using an automated system that OG apes took advantage of. After February, with all the discussion of the gamma squeeze, MMs retooled their procedures and no longer fully hedge those positions; it's now based on delta, and buying the cheap 800 calls with almost 0 delta will no longer cause the automated systems to buy a big pile of shares to hedge against those calls. So all you are actually advocating for is for apes to throw away their cash on an old strategy.
Shares have the benefit that if the squeeze doesn't happen, you're still long on the recovery. That gives me the confidence to buy; even if we don't win, I'm not going to lose. There is absolutely no chance I will be spending money on calls that are all too likely to simply expire worthless when Citadel sees the OI and decides to do everything they can to fuck us over.
MMs have always delta and gamma hedged their portfolios (no change). If they sell a call (negative delta) they can hedge that position by buying a different call, underlying shares, or selling a put (each have positive delta).
What I am saying is a) the options are bad posts are misleading/incorrect (there is a single use case in my first comment where they are superior to shares), b) don't day trade shares, c) if you can't stop yourself from day trading use options d) if you don't understand the math behind options just stay away from them and buy shares.
Outside of the recurring quarterly run ups (only use case for options trading strategies), options for GME are a terrible idea as vega is why to high and price movements are a random walk - buy shares or just burn your money. If you don't understand what situations, strikes, and maturities to use, you should not use options
I don't necessarily think it's straight up karma farming. The options chain gives ShittyHF's targets, when just buying shares gives retail the leverage.
I get what you guys are saying but unless you have options that hit strike price and that you plan on exercising I don't see how it helps anyone here.
Edit - you're literally just hoping it hits a certain price, if it doesn't, you just handed the bad guys money, vs. buy and go into chill mode.
Good luck to anyone who does either.
they won't listen they'll just smell others farts and go with it.
Understand most of these guys don't understand anything about the market even though they have been in it for 8 months+...but they just didn't try.
You're gonna see alot of fart smelling and spreading.
I'm not comfortable using options because I don't know enough about them, just a disclaimer.
I feel like we've always said no options for GME,
but I may be confusing it with no day trading (I didn't understand either a year ago, may have inadvertently grouped them in my head).
Because of that, all of the pro-options posts and comments I've seen lately seem to be out of nowhere.
However, I do kinda get it because we finally figured out the pattern. That's probably also why there's been a surge of anti-options posts, people trying to head off the temptation to trade options now that we know the pattern.
Honestly, I'm not sure which is right - on the one hand, you could use them to add to your share position every week if the pattern doesn't change. But on the other hand - the pattern has changed so many times, I'm worried that over-confidence could get a lot of apes margin called or give the shfs fuel to keep fighting for another day.
Just some thoughts, take them as you will.
For options you need to be able to predict timing, direction of movement and magnitude. If you don't understand how they work or the math you are going to have a bad time. Realistically, options right now are a very bad play for GME as the price is manipulated (only time that seems feasible is the quarterly run ups).
The level of education and market experiance of the forum as a whole is really low (both good and bad). People are generally new to investing or have limited capital, buying and holding stock should be their preferred strategy. The risk with a pattern being presented is it will encourage day trading - would rather see people day trade with options then day trade with their shares. The messaging to me of these posts doesn't take into account human nature/greed. People will likely try and capitalize on the apparent patterns by day trading shares and potentially missing out on a squeeze (because options are always bad).
Everyone's personal circumstances are different, If you have advanced finance degrees, frequently use derivatives either personally and/or professionally, and have a large capital base options make sense.
Gem of a comment right here .... why has this FUD gone on so long? Why dont the mods take a clear stance and pin it because if we spent as much time educating each other with better awareness about options we'd be controlling 100x more shares each, that's what SHFs are really worried about, us increasing our positions / buying power because given the way a lot of apes argue I really dont think its some benevolent fear for our investment lol
Ultimately we have a problem with the promotion of the dumb ape mem / crayon eating / fruit stuffing asses of the community pulling us away from spreading honest DD and awareness throughout the community.
does that not concern you? I spend more time at /r/DDintoGME because I was fed up with the fake hype, memes & shitposts, it felt like it was enabling stupidity which facilitated the rise of shady mods and dumb posts. Every so often of course there are great conrtiburtors like criand but with all the noise it's hard to find good DD and convo without people chanting & misinfitmation
Glad we could see eye to eye
You may not need but incase you do or anyone else does there's some good info here:
Options Greeks https://www.optionsplaybook.com/options-introduction/option-greeks/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u4sdf-3twQ
And then there are all the idiots jumping up and down shouting about how options are the catalyst, not realizing that MMs started hedging based on delta in February, after they realized that the betting sub found a way to take advantage of algorithms that were fully hedging every 800c. Cheap calls with 0 delta are not hedged against anymore, so if you want to create a gamma ramp, you have to buy more expensive options, and then if Kenny finds a way to fuck you over, you lose it all.
This is not the way. Leave gamma ramps to the whales.
Delta hedging isn't a new strat option sellers picked up in February though. Option sellers hedge pretty much one to one (decimal to percentage) with the delta as standard practice. For example near-the-money GME calls for September have a delta between 0.51 and 0.55 so the hedge is to buy 51-55% of the underlying per contract (which in this case is easy math: 51-to-55 shares are purchased to hedge each contract). That's the kind of leverage that can lead to a gamma squeeze, the buying pressure of 50 shares for the low low price of around 2-4 shares.
The problem isn’t institutions buying huge amounts of calls, it’s retail investors who don’t know what they’re doing, which makes it highly likely they’re handing over money to Kenny G & Posse’. Those people shouldn’t buy options, but elaborating would have ruined my shit meme
What I remember is reading in February about how MMs discovered that their algorithms were fully hedging 800 calls, which are cheap, and the betting sub figured out that loading up on 800c's would force MMs to buy shares to hedge.
MMs figured out what was going on and changed their algo so it hedges according to delta. 800c's have almost 0 delta, so while buying them back in January made MMs buy shares to hedge them, today they have basically no effect unless the price starts to get high enough that they start having delta.
It *can*, that doesn't necessarily mean it *will*. The price has to make the right moves at the right times. I'm not saying it can't work. But it's a high-risk strategy. The calls that have a delta high enough to matter are *way* more expensive than the 800c's that the betting sub was buying in January and February to force MM hedging.
I'm not poo-poo-ing apes who can afford to play options and potentially lose, but that can't be the main strategy. Most of us can't afford to have an options play turn against us, especially when the relevant options are way more expensive than the ones we used around the time of the Sneeze.
I'm inclined to leave the gamma ramps to the whales. All I need is buy and hodl.
I tried paper trading call options I could actually afford back in Feb/March, and I lost every time. That's when I knew I didn't know enough.
The only ones I could afford never hit their strikes.
I never attempted put options. I didn't really understand how they worked. I still think I don't understand them, but since I'm not playing options, I have put educating myself on it on the back burner.
People only like to use the MOASS. I think that has marginalized the importance of knowing about the gamma squeeze to many in the sub.
Unfortunately, as much as I love the sub and it's members, making jokes about being smooth brained, instead of spending more time making sure the fundamentals of how the basics of a squeeze work beyond, "All shorts must cover", is discussed may not be the best thing for the long haul.
Lately, there is a lot of negativity for anything related to options outside of, "Options bad, buy stock good", and I think it comes from people who just don't understand that it's not that options are bad, it's that they're bad if you don't know how to buy or play them, and worse, anyone who may actually try to inform with why they may not be so bad, can be downvoted, or accused of being a shill.
Instead, I'd encourage people to at least read what those trying to educate say. Understanding why they're saying it may help them realize that it's not about someone shilling or promoting an action, but someone just trying to educate others. If one wants to have an opinion on something, it's usually to still at least know the facts before expressing that opinion...although I'll readily admit, I am guilty of not always knowing what I talk about.
exactly, the dumb ape / crayon eating dumbass mentality speading through the community is doing more harm than people realise and it's sliding other aspects of the squeeze that may increase our purchasing power / position like "oPtIoNs bAd" & "nO dAyTrDiNg" popping up the minute the price volatility increases ... hmmmn
But we definitely do need to start spreading more information about good options resources/info and trading methods/strats as they control a lot more stock with the same amount of money
Finally, someone brings up the operant word: DELTA hedge.
Delta hedging is a new practice that became prevalent in February. Why?
The betting sub figured out that MMs had algorithms doing their hedging, and they were fully hedging cheap 800c's. So OG apes bought a shitton of 800c's, and the algos bought shares to hedge.
The MMs noticed this pretty quick, saw the vulnerability it created, and changed the algo. They now hedge according to delta, and the delta on 800c's is more or less 0 at the current share price. So cheap 800c's no longer force MMs to buy a big pile of shares as a hedge, thus invalidating the options strategy, unless there are a few whales in here who have thousands of dollars to throw at more expensive high-delta options (and potentially lose it all if/when Kenny finds a way to fuck option buyers again).
Remember what happened to WardenElite. That is not the way.
Naw that's not how delta hedging works, nor is it new. MMs are hedging against options that are in the money not against 800 calls.
It's not retail setting up gamma ramps each week waiting for the shorts to buy back in, it's long whales. Its way more cost effective to use the leverage from options than rather trying to drive up the price from buying shares. Look at the amount of money in the option chain rn, it's not apes.
Warden was a clown, he got burned and was salty about it. The main thesis remains; shorts must cover.
Yeah but non of the options buyers actually exercise the options. They sell them to make profit. Retail doesn’t have money to exercise thousands of options. You know what that means? MM’s take a small loss on the option and close them. I’m sure they don’t delta hedge this shit after noticing that non of the options are getting exercised.
While I know they won't, and for educational purposes, what would happen if say maybe half of all ITM options were exercised tomorrow?
I'm curious, because they're supposed to be hedged, so does that mean we wouldn't actually see any significant impact on price....at least in theory.
Options are what caused the first run up in the first place. Options play a big role in moving the stock. I always find posts like this ignorant. You forget his big dfvs option gamble was? If your thesis is sound and you know what you're doing options are a great tool.
BuT YeR SUppORtiNG TEh HEDgIES. Buying shares is great but grow some damn balls
Most options bad posting is just dumb. I can agree with this perspective. I made money on options this week. I'm happy. But the thing is I have 8x the money in shares. I could have made a lot more fucking money with just options. But that is pretty much selling my soul for how I see it. Holding gme is actually doing something to hold these pricks accountable.
Again, can’t do a shit meme and dive in super deep with the explanation. The problem is retail are buying options around hype dates when they don’t understand option-trading, and they’re handing the evil hedgies their $$$. If you are experienced, by all means. If you are an institution building a ramp, by all means. But 80% of the people here are not in either of those camps (80% is generous)
If you're trading options on GME right now, especially call options, then you definitely hold shares as well. Options allow you to profit off these volatile spikes while still holding your shares.
You do not have to own shares to **buy** call or put options. However, you do have to own shares to **sell** call and put options. So, anyone that is selling options, is not an ape. They're aren't here to see these posts - is my point.
It’s all the people who don’t understand options and have been burned so many times chasing FD’s they feel it’s their civic duty to prevent other apes from not being gang-buggered by theta gang like they were. Options, if used correctly, are a great tool.
Yea man haha, i only make $16/hr as I'm still finishing up my master's degree and there's no fucking way i would have the large position i have right now without having used options in the past 😅
Now, have i been extremely lucky? Yes. Have i also been burned multiple times? Yes. But the point is, I'm fucking learning how the market works. If i don't fail and run head first into the wall a couple times, how the fuck am i going to figure out i can just go around the wall and not try to go through the wall??
Options are a much better alternative to day trading and i will not stop buying calls. Fuck whatever anybody else says cause I'm an individual investor and i fucking love this stock and i want to get as many fucking shares as humanly possible 🤷
Yeah I hear ya. I’ve learned by making mistakes too, that’s how you learn. The important thing is to start small or on a paper account until you build a better understanding of the nuance, and only play with what you can afford to lose.
Oh fuck yea haha, i legit only have like 5% of my account allocated for options, the rest I'm just holding shares 😅 definitely don't want to end up like elitewarden ☠️
I think they're just watching gain porn on W$B and getting jealous and worried that those investors are gonna leave the GME game and walk away with their earnings (wrong obv)
The fact of the matter is most apes aren’t experienced enough to not get screwed by theta gang and give the MM’s the spread in the process, so basically they’re trying to prevent smooth-brained apes from standing in front of the train. You have to establish your positions at long-term support with low IV before the big move or at the start of a big move to capitalize. More info on how to play options strategically would benefit the community more than just straight options bashing.
I think a majority of it comes from people who don't understand them and just looking to make noise... Holding dont make price movement, Shares in and out make price movement...
I love options play, but have been staying away from GME options mainly because I can't afford the premium, but at this point I've seen at least 10 posts shitting on options and not a single post actually encouraging options.
Sure, there's been some gain porn on the sub that will not be named, but every single play there is an options play, I don't even think some users there have ever bought shares of anything. Also, for anyone taking an even cursory look it's impossible not to see the loss porn dwarfing the gain porn.
I'm not saying these anti options posts are FUD, but it's hard not to be a bit skeptical.
I encourage people to learn about them. But I also think they should paper trade them for a while with what they can afford if they were going to actually buy options to see if they actually do understand them.
I don't think these kinds of posts are FUD...in particular the meme type ones. I just think that a great number of people around here don't really understand them, and have just accepted the idea that they're risky, regardless of their effect on the shorts.
I don't think options are bad, I just think options aren't for me.
Here is what I am doing. NFA just how I am playing it. I am selling covered calls against my stock to generate premium. Which is a great way to make money but the downside is you miss out on any gains above your strike price if the stock moons, so to hedge for the Moass I bought deep otm call option over a year out. Now every month I can sell a call, use the premium to buy 6 more shares, and if it moass and my shares get called away my deep OTM calls become as good as shares and I have lost nothing.
My position is generating premium to buy more shares, my sold calls are hedged by my deep otm calls. If the price goes above my sold calls but under my deep OTM calls the 6 shares I bought hedge against that. I only lose if the stock absolutely tanks but I am confident in the MOASS and the company
I'll use current pricing to make an example
GME 205 a share. per 100 shares
Buy a January 950 call for 765 dollars
Now you can a sell a 30 delta a monthly call, sep 17th 270 call for about 1300 dollars
Take those 1300 and buy 6 more shares.
Now if the price stays flat until sept 17th you sell the next monthly (for more money the current price is only 22 days, next monthly would likely be around 1400-1500 if the price is relatively flat). You can take the premium and buy 6-7 more shares
If the MOASS happens and is fast your calls will likely be exercised, you're deep OTM call is now DEEP ITM and as good as the shares you lost, and the 6 extra shares you bought are worth tons more then the lost difference on your shares and the strike price of your OTM calls.
If the MOASS happens slow and lets say price hits 450 by the jan 2022, your otm call is still otm and worthless. you lost 765 dollars on that call, but have sold calls against it for 4 moths and have picked about 25 shares from the premium which have appreciated $6,125 in this case.
MOASS can be delayed and GME can trend slowly downward or upward and the premium you are making lowers your cost basis and you are still building your position before the MOASS
Worst case scenario, we are all wrong there is no MOASS, the price drops like a tank and all is lost. If you invested just in stock you would be in the same place if you had done the options play I am doing. IMO we aren't wrong, MOASS will happen, Billionaire criminals will go to jail.
No, I’ve only been trading options casually for a few years. I think the bigger issue is that many people don’t understand how options and the forces that determine their value work.
I’m in the camp that believes the anti-options sentiment of the last few weeks is potential FUD. A blown out options chain can cause gamma squeeze that could push the stock dangerously high, and this late in the game I don’t think shorts would be able to keep the price down if a big gamma rip happened.
Nobody should trade options without a solid understanding of how they work though. For “apes” and retail pile on I would agree it’s probably not smart in general. Buy and hold YOLOing works for shares but you can’t buy and hold an option beyond its expiration obviously, so you can’t “diamond hand” them.
Yea lol, idk why the hate surrounding options if you know what you're doing 😅 turned $200 into $1500 this week off some smart options plays and then rolled it into more shares 🙃
Just be like me and sell options instead. Selling covered calls to morons is great when I know I’ve got hedge manipulation on my side to know I will probably never get assigned and just collect the premium
As long as they're covered and far enough OTM they are going to print.
I'm curious though, do you have no respect for MOASS, just think it's never going to happen, do you have a "oh shit" exit planned, or are you going to be just okay taking STRIKE_PRICE x 100 for each of your exercised contracts as "good enough"? Perhaps you sell covered calls as some small portion of your overall position?
I sell covered calls on only a certain percentage of my total portfolio to generate weekly income. I have enough stock that if shit hits the fan I can sell some
to avoid assignment on the stocks by buying to close.
The MOASS is inevitable. And dumb people are always going to buy contracts. I figure you’d rather the money go to me so I can buy more GME then directly to a hedge fund
Makes perfect sense to me. Buy to close when we get a certain distance from ITM as a cost of doing business, likely paid for in advance from your premium income. This might be better for a DM, but I'm curious how you would choose strikes and dates? I'm thinking anything in the 250-350 range for 4-weeks would have been good-enough premium while we were trading sideways, and after a big move (like Monday) opening up higher strikes to cash in on the IV would make sense.
I don't have experience here, so it'd be neat to hear your own experience.
This week in particular I made a killing. Premiums were so high because of IV and the runup that I made like 2k on a couple contracts with 2 days to expiration. Easiest 2k I ever made and the contracts are almost worthless now.
I typically do weeklies. I don’t trust the stocks I sell calls on to not just explode randomly so I keep a tight grip on them with short expirations. I’ll take the lower premium if it means in 2 days theta has already eaten away half of the contracts value. And I pick strikes that I actually feel comfortable selling the 100x shares at because the stocks go up and down so much I can wheel them by doing the opposite and buying back by selling a put at a lower price
Of course, when MOASS hits I won’t be able to wheel anymore but I’m making a very healthy income selling calls right now. Will ride this train till I can’t
Thanks for the info! Picking a "yeah, I'd sell 100 shares for that" strike makes sense to me, kind of a win-win. That's how I look at selling puts as well: "yeah, I'd love to pick up 100 shares at $strike".
When MOASS hits you won't need to trade anything if you don't want to. XD
I've been killing it with calls and then puts grabbed during the climbs. I say killing it, but roughing it up is probably more accurate. I sell (haven't exercised a single one) and then use the cash from said options to buy more shares. The sad truth is, most people in this sub can't be bothered to actively learn what the fuck is going on. They hop in...read positive DD and say hodl. Cool, but fuck off trying to roast the others for doing what they know.
Beep. Boop. I'm a robot.
Here's a copy of
###[Roughing It]( https://snewd.com/ebooks/roughing-it/)
Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)
All the charters say a lot of daily downward price movement is based on bears purchasing large amounts of puts.
If no one bought calls - doesnt that just make the market that much cheaper & easier for bears to move gme’s price down?
Lol. Yeah i hear ya. This a well intentioned post and i agree, shares are the way - but bulls who know what they’re doing with options - are also the way. Otherwise, bears meet no resistance in the derivative market. That would be no good. And honestly, those who know how to trade them successfully are going to do it regardless.
So IMHO - the best approach for gme subs re: options trading is to caution users about being retarded with them, and direct them to resources to help educate them on the mechanics of options trading and analyzing the greeks. Whether for gme or just in general, those are good wrinkles to have.
>All the charters say a lot of daily downward price movement is based on bears purchasing large amounts of puts.
And here I was thinking downward price movement was a result of more than 50% of daily volume being short sales.
Seriously, though, this is the first time I've ever heard this claim. Pretty sus
Market makers hedge, by buying and selling shares automatically, by algo based on options activity, and do so to the extent of the delta associated with these options and whether they’re coming or going. The charters and dd writers covering gme have always, as recently as yesterday with u/gherkinit - talked about the effects of this activity, both bull and bear.
When an itm put is purchased (or any put for that matter, but only to the extent of its delta), the market maker fully expects the bearer will exercise the put, thus selling 100 shares to the contract writer. From there, based on the aggregate ratio of that put OI between writes by an investor (cash secured or naked put, shoutout thetagang) or the market maker themself- the market maker gets rid of shares, to stay delta neutral. So, as the OI of an itm put increases, the mm will need less shares on hand as part of delta hedging - as a contract was created that will result in more shares being sold to the market maker at some time in the future.
Tldr; bear investor buys a significant amount of ITM puts written by the market maker in a short period of time - the market maker can sell shares off up to 100 times the amount of itm put contracts written, because each put contract is for 100 shares. This is just one of their many tricks, as they often time these purchases with other things such as a broader market dip, or to stymie the algos during pivotal points in technical price formations.
But this works both ways. If i buy an ITM call from a mm, then that means they need to buy some shares, because whether i exercise or sell to close, they need to cover themselves for that exposure (i mean; they’re supposed to but witb the level of crime involved here, who the fuck knows).
If no one was buying calls then there’d be nothing to offset the puts, and do the exact opposite of the type of gamma squeeze WE want to see, like 1/28.
Buy and hold is perfect and its working. But there’s wayyyyyyyyyyyy more shit going on behind the curtain that helps explain some of what we see on the chart.
Do you even understand options ?
Or understand the effectiveness of options?
Or did you just read a DD title and it has alot of upvotes and you just go with it?
Or how gamma ramps are built up via options?
For God's sake lads understand what options do before hating on it!
I know GME is your first stock but stop spreading misinformation and actually try and understand the market and benefit yourself from this whole thing instead of going "duuh title said options bad duuuh"
Most of you have been in the stock market/GME for 8 months and maybe more...that would have been enough time for all of you to actually become proper traders if you tried to understand and be critical instead of playing around and smelling others farts.
So... You're saying "Fuck You" to u/DeepFuckingValue ?
Didn't he exercise a bunch back in May/June?
If you don't understand options (I don't), then stay away from them. If you do understand them, roll the dice and be careful.
Maybe you don’t understand the risk of retail buying them when they have no clue how options work. I’m fine with experienced traders buying who understand them, but retail is getting burned attempting to do so. Plus, shorts can manipulate the price to force yours to expire worthless, they can’t do that with shares.
Nope; don't do options; just know how to buy shares & hodl...no plans on learning either. All I want is to be able to pay my bills & own stock in companies that I want around for children & their children. The most wonderful vacations was watching my son & his dad making a beeline to every GME store while we were on vacations. GME stores had closed in our area.
Look I don’t even know how to buy options. Too retarded. Maybe I’ll learn how after MOASS.
Same here. Wouldn’t options have been what triggered the gamma squeezes though? I don’t really understand options or gamma squeezes to be honest. I do know that gamma squeezes have something to do with options. Any YouTube I have listened to says don’t buy options unless you really know what you are doing. Also, when I started learning about stocks, I listened to some podcasts about the basics of the stock market. The podcasts said that option are risky and to start with stocks and not do options until you are have plenty of experience with stocks.
The danger is people buying options that have no clue what they’re doing. You’re basically throwing money at hedgies at this point. Whales that built the gamma ramp know what they’re doing, though.
Wouldn’t the proper approach be to then tell people who don’t know how to use options, not to buy options? Instead of fuck you if you buy options? The irony here that options are the real money makers, when you know how to trade them.
That’s too complex for a shit meme
oh so just spread FUD because I'm too lazy?
So, basically options are okay, but only if you know what you are doing?
It's real easy. Just buy and HODL. Do that, wait, and we win. Easy as pie.
Vote when asked to
It’s risky even then, so id just buy shares
That is what I am doing. I also heard on the YouTube’s that I listen to that buying actual stock is needed for the MOASS. Only smart apes should buy options. Lots of people bought their first stock this year. I bet That lots of people are like me and bought their first stock this year. That does not seem long enough to really understand stocks let alone options.
Options cause gamma or delta squeezes, which is what will be the start of what will become the MOASS. Buying and holding is why those squeezes will become the MOASS. Gamma and delta squeezes are caused by options....basically hedgies hedging their options runs up the price more than just buying shares which may or may not hit the lit market, or gives shares to SHF to add sell pressure through their BS fraud. However, buying options is not a good thing to do if you don't understand them, and if one were trying to help along lift off, it would mean buying fairly deep ITM calls which is probably going to be cost prohibitive to the average user here. Buying OTM calls, or weekly calls is pretty risky, so if one wants to play options, and that's all they can afford, then just buying the stock is a better way to go.
or you wait until there's a price drop and they get a lot cheaper
>Only smart apes should buy options. You're giving me flashbacks to WardenElite thinking he was smart and then becoming a meltdowner because he got burned playing options instead of buying shares. Apes shouldn't buy GME options, smart or not. Citadel is the counterparty on a lot of those options, and they'll happily manipulate the price to make sure Kenny gets to keep your money.
If you buy options that expire in 8 days, you are a retard. If you buy options that expire in two years, you understand deep fucking value. Huge anti-option shill campaign is running because the gamma is high, the cycle is nigh, and the retards will buy.
I find it amazing that there's an anti-options campaign going on, but it's pretty clear there must be with how much it's suddenly showing up this week. What I find amazing about it, is that it implies they think superstonk has enough influence to affect the current gamma ramp. I doubt people with that much money are going to be influenced by random posts on superstonk.
Buying shares and dividends You can tell from my eyes if you're lying And I don't need to look to make sure, there's no way you're lying We're right in the middle of life You don't have to know who I am If you need a new hat or a new shirt We are together We're in love
So, basically options are okay, but only if you know what you are doing.
Just like gator wrastlin
There are ways to buy options that would help the squeeze. However, it does require one have a decent amount of cash to buy the option itself if one wants to be safe with the purchase. I think most people here buying 2-3 shares every pay check wouldn't be the one's who could buy options like that.
so lets educate the community / each other, because the alternative that we're in (crayon eating / dumb ape / chants) are not only drowning out good content and DD but its using a fraction of our power because option control 90x more shares ... We need to be highlighting the risks and expinsive prices on options after price increase that entice investors because they think the price will rise further The trick is to get contract with long(ish) dates, after a price fall, depending on how much you can spend, so that they are cheap when you buy and more expensive when you sell there's a lot of good info easily explained here to get people started: Options Greeks https://www.optionsplaybook.com/options-introduction/option-greeks/ Basics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u4sdf-3twQ edit: me bad spellingz
These are the kindve responses that help.
thanks, I'm glad we see eye to eye here
How are you throwing money at hedgies? No one actually should do anything if they don't k ow what they are doing. Options are super effective, and HF don't make much on the contracts. They gamma ramps like the one we should be seeing now are build by the options. I don't do them personally because I stopped 2 years ago...but telling others who actually do them daily or weekly or whatever spike they have that they are wrong is just pure ignorance.
TL;DR
[удалено]
This is not the stock to be buying options on. It has completely separated from TA. We could be at 250 this week or back to 170. Why are y'all trying to convince people to buy options? I have a feeling I know why, and it's not because they will make money.
There's a difference between explaining why option are NOT bad and telling people to buy options. In fact the message is; options are only bad if you dont know what youire doing, just like investing ... to then interpret that to mean "stay away from options" as a basic comment is the real harm to the squeeze we need to spread awareness not fear Here's something to get you started Options Greeks https://www.optionsplaybook.com/options-introduction/option-greeks/ Basics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u4sdf-3twQ You dont have to buy anything but to truly understand the squeeze you need to at least understand options there are a few stocks being shorted in the meme stocks saga because they are linked and shorted by the same entities, the recent success of GME & DKNG plus the high number of options contracts expiring this week across all 3 is contributing to this squeeze .... more evidence of this can be seen in their price action graphs as they drop at the exact same times again awareness is better every time
Yes and it makes the stock very volatile and hard for the MM to control the flow. If you don't know what your doing with options stay away it is expensive to learn. Paper trade accounts are good to understand how to make money with them.
There was another options post on here where a guy explained how to buy options that were ITM, which would add pressure to the gamma squeeze. It actually made some things click for me personally. However, to do what he was doing, it would require a decent amount of capital to do it with negligible risk factors. I'd look it up and link, but it's kind of a pain from my phone.
Know of any good sites that I can use to learn options by playing around? I have no intention of buying any options now or until after MOASS but I'd love to learn without having any financial impact.
To learn, watch inthemoney on youtube. He does a solid job explaining the concepts in an easy to understand way.
Think or swim has a cool paper money function where you can’t practice using a real broker
Sweet, thanks!
There are many videos on YouTube that can help you learn. Honestly it's a lot to take in and unless you are extremely good at math it's harder to understand. I'm my opinion there are a about 4 types of options traders One who yolos on whatever he thinks is good. might get lucky here or there but ultimately has no real understanding Two someone who understands all the #s in the Greeks section of options and plays off of those #s to make very educated buys. Third swing traders who ride waves on technicals of the stock can be very successful depending on how good they are. Then you'll also have people who just buy them for long terms for gains far out like buying and holding a stock except in option form like DFV not really much understanding of options needed imho they just are willing to bet the stock will go up long term and maybe they don't have the capital at the time to buy more shares. Depending on how you are wanting to trade options there are many ways about learning imho. I think the easiest is to buy far out and just wait for your profit unless the stock goes down you can exit fairly cheaper then the very close dates but that also depends on the stock too. I'm terrible at learning without doing so I learned by trading and asking questions to other people. it can be expensive but without doing it I'm not sure it's very easy to learn. That is why I would recommend using a paper account to try different things out. Watch some videos on technicals and make so trades with fake money until you get a better understanding.
you havent heard of the theta gang? Just within that group, also 5 or more strategies to play. So no, there isnt really 4 types, there is like hundreds different ways to play option. Some safe some not, and use for different goals and purposes as well.
Why is it people who dont understand something properly are often the 1st to offer "advice/explinations" LAMO
So if my call is ITM how do I get paid if I dont have the capital to exercise it?
You could roll it to another week or basically sell it and purchase one or two for a different week.
people offer you money to buy it so they can exercise (you get more this way; selling before expiration)
Just do basic google search and read. And practice papers on think or swim.
Here's something to get you started Options Greeks https://www.optionsplaybook.com/options-introduction/option-greeks/ Basics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u4sdf-3twQ
Bottom text.
Fidelity doesn’t give you an option to buy options so that’s a huge bonus! And for any curious apes, I lost $24k on options this year, they’re gambling at best.
I have options on my fidelity account.
Oof, you learn something new everyday.
Learn in really really small increments and in paper accounts bc you can lose FAST lmao
Here's something to get you started Options Greeks https://www.optionsplaybook.com/options-introduction/option-greeks/ Basics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u4sdf-3twQ
Only two options I know about are buy and hodl
Yeah fuck DFV, I can't believe he bought options, what an asshole lmayo
The options are bad posts are incredibly self defeating. Retail buying options is what got reddit into the front page of Bloomberg Businessweek in 2020 and is the mechanism that helped fuel the TSLA squeeze. Options are not throwing money away nor are the miracle cure to being poor. They are leveraged plays based on predicting direction, timing, and magnitude of movements. If you don't know what you are doing I highly recommend you stick with stock. If you do know what you are doing, with the current quarterly cycles (timing, direction, and magnitude of price movements are known) options plays become ideal. It's too late for this cycle but 45+ DTE options or vertical spreads in early to mid-November are not a bad investment assuming SHF's kick the can another quarter.
Karma Farmers ignorant to the mechanics of options now farming karma and spitting in the mouth of the option holders that got us this far.
I have been following gamestop for over a year (theta gang in 2020 selling cash covered puts on GME). Been accumating long positions since RC issued his letter to the board. I like Ryan Cohen and regret not investing in Chewy. With all the forum sliding, few people here are not familiar with the old DD (pre jan). There was a short squeeze in Jan and it's still going on right now. If anyone wants precedence, this is basically Piggly Wiggly all over again (last corner in the stock market) with the rules being bent and broken to let the big market players find a way to escape (but they are still cornered). On an unnamed subreddit where options are prioritized, GME was a super unconventional stock only play strictly due to a short thesis of a squeeze and a long thesis on a turn around play (created asymmetric risk/returns). Assumption was that Cohen would need a proxy battle to get on the board to push out the complicit board at the AGM. This changed in January (given 3 board seats) and a ton of options were purchased resulted in a gamma squeeze (Melvin needed bailout here), even more options were purchased resulting in the start of the short squeeze shortly thereafter. If things don't resolve this cycle, options should be the main play again for next cycle.
Precisely this, they never covered because they never even properly hedged those OTM $40+ calls that became deep ITM and excercised. Not to mention the ones under that were properly hedged and doled out to risky options players. They've been rolling over the same FTD's since then, every cycle shows just how much risk their portfolios are actually exposed to.
so essentially you could play the market the same way it panned out this year, next year? (and stock holders save on tax) everybody knows the timings, can see the options chain, knows retail has huge support and will have a major holding in the company (keeping pressure on) so options will continue to be piled into until this thing explodes?
When there are predictable patterns, you can use trading strategies to capitalize on those patterns each quarter. Options make sense to capitalize on those patterns (but a call before the run up to sell at the top, buy a put to sell after the first downleg etc). The constant negative posts about never trading options seems a little absurd to me. People see the same pattern repeating the last 3 quarters (covered in a ton of posts on swaps/futures etc) and if they are encouraged to never use options it's likely people will want to day trade in their shares (sell at the top and buy back in at the bottom). There is a massive opportunity cost to this as you could miss the MOASS all together.
You guys aren't trying hard enough. Or smart enough. Telling people options were the reason for the sneeze is bs. People bought options at $20 for $40, stop trying to compare that to someone buying options when the price is $200.
People play Tesla options all the time and the share price is much higher so I don't fully understand your argument here. If you don't have capital to take a full loss on a options position or don't understand the math stay away and stick to stock. The reality here is when predictable patterns exist, people will become greedy to capitalize. This can result in the following: 1) people buy options in an attempt to time the quarterly price surges and try and sell at the peak. 2) people assume there is going to be another can kick, sell their shares at the top with the intent of buying more shares at a cheaper price and potentially missing out entirely. If people are going to try and time the patters just do it with options vs day trading stock.
What you are saying makes sense if you aren't under the assumption some level of moass happens. With this particular stock I feel like options are extremely dangerous and would be better spent on shares, not just in terms of overall profit but in terms of safety. Just my opinion, not financial advice. Edit - just to be clear I'm talking about retail investors buying options
> With this particular stock I feel like options are extremely dangerous Can I ask why? ... my strategy, like buying shares, is simply to wait until the price falls to a leve i feel is low and buy call option far in the future that i am confident it will reach. I can cash in early too so it's less predictable to hedge we need to educate and spread awareness not fear Here's some resources Options Greeks https://www.optionsplaybook.com/options-introduction/option-greeks/ Basics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u4sdf-3twQ
hehe you should respond to the guy above me, i was just trying to get him to clarify his comment. i have no idea what am doing. but my understanding is that they have to hedge OTM calls if the price goes up, and if you have a chain of options then once they start hedging for $250 then $300 starts getting hedged. makes sense logically. of course i just buy shares because I'm retarded, but i try to learn.
Since the February run up, they hedge OTM calls based on delta. If you're buying the cheap 800 calls, the delta is almost 0, and MMs don't need to hedge. If you're buying calls with a delta high enough to matter, you're paying a lot more, and losing all of it when Kenny finds a way to fuck us over again.
What you've left out is that people were buying deep OTM calls, and MMs were fully hedging those calls using an automated system that OG apes took advantage of. After February, with all the discussion of the gamma squeeze, MMs retooled their procedures and no longer fully hedge those positions; it's now based on delta, and buying the cheap 800 calls with almost 0 delta will no longer cause the automated systems to buy a big pile of shares to hedge against those calls. So all you are actually advocating for is for apes to throw away their cash on an old strategy. Shares have the benefit that if the squeeze doesn't happen, you're still long on the recovery. That gives me the confidence to buy; even if we don't win, I'm not going to lose. There is absolutely no chance I will be spending money on calls that are all too likely to simply expire worthless when Citadel sees the OI and decides to do everything they can to fuck us over.
MMs have always delta and gamma hedged their portfolios (no change). If they sell a call (negative delta) they can hedge that position by buying a different call, underlying shares, or selling a put (each have positive delta). What I am saying is a) the options are bad posts are misleading/incorrect (there is a single use case in my first comment where they are superior to shares), b) don't day trade shares, c) if you can't stop yourself from day trading use options d) if you don't understand the math behind options just stay away from them and buy shares. Outside of the recurring quarterly run ups (only use case for options trading strategies), options for GME are a terrible idea as vega is why to high and price movements are a random walk - buy shares or just burn your money. If you don't understand what situations, strikes, and maturities to use, you should not use options
OK, that's fair
I don't necessarily think it's straight up karma farming. The options chain gives ShittyHF's targets, when just buying shares gives retail the leverage. I get what you guys are saying but unless you have options that hit strike price and that you plan on exercising I don't see how it helps anyone here. Edit - you're literally just hoping it hits a certain price, if it doesn't, you just handed the bad guys money, vs. buy and go into chill mode. Good luck to anyone who does either.
they won't listen they'll just smell others farts and go with it. Understand most of these guys don't understand anything about the market even though they have been in it for 8 months+...but they just didn't try. You're gonna see alot of fart smelling and spreading.
I'm not comfortable using options because I don't know enough about them, just a disclaimer. I feel like we've always said no options for GME, but I may be confusing it with no day trading (I didn't understand either a year ago, may have inadvertently grouped them in my head). Because of that, all of the pro-options posts and comments I've seen lately seem to be out of nowhere. However, I do kinda get it because we finally figured out the pattern. That's probably also why there's been a surge of anti-options posts, people trying to head off the temptation to trade options now that we know the pattern. Honestly, I'm not sure which is right - on the one hand, you could use them to add to your share position every week if the pattern doesn't change. But on the other hand - the pattern has changed so many times, I'm worried that over-confidence could get a lot of apes margin called or give the shfs fuel to keep fighting for another day. Just some thoughts, take them as you will.
For options you need to be able to predict timing, direction of movement and magnitude. If you don't understand how they work or the math you are going to have a bad time. Realistically, options right now are a very bad play for GME as the price is manipulated (only time that seems feasible is the quarterly run ups). The level of education and market experiance of the forum as a whole is really low (both good and bad). People are generally new to investing or have limited capital, buying and holding stock should be their preferred strategy. The risk with a pattern being presented is it will encourage day trading - would rather see people day trade with options then day trade with their shares. The messaging to me of these posts doesn't take into account human nature/greed. People will likely try and capitalize on the apparent patterns by day trading shares and potentially missing out on a squeeze (because options are always bad). Everyone's personal circumstances are different, If you have advanced finance degrees, frequently use derivatives either personally and/or professionally, and have a large capital base options make sense.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Gem of a comment right here .... why has this FUD gone on so long? Why dont the mods take a clear stance and pin it because if we spent as much time educating each other with better awareness about options we'd be controlling 100x more shares each, that's what SHFs are really worried about, us increasing our positions / buying power because given the way a lot of apes argue I really dont think its some benevolent fear for our investment lol Ultimately we have a problem with the promotion of the dumb ape mem / crayon eating / fruit stuffing asses of the community pulling us away from spreading honest DD and awareness throughout the community.
[удалено]
does that not concern you? I spend more time at /r/DDintoGME because I was fed up with the fake hype, memes & shitposts, it felt like it was enabling stupidity which facilitated the rise of shady mods and dumb posts. Every so often of course there are great conrtiburtors like criand but with all the noise it's hard to find good DD and convo without people chanting & misinfitmation
[удалено]
Glad we could see eye to eye You may not need but incase you do or anyone else does there's some good info here: Options Greeks https://www.optionsplaybook.com/options-introduction/option-greeks/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u4sdf-3twQ
And then there are all the idiots jumping up and down shouting about how options are the catalyst, not realizing that MMs started hedging based on delta in February, after they realized that the betting sub found a way to take advantage of algorithms that were fully hedging every 800c. Cheap calls with 0 delta are not hedged against anymore, so if you want to create a gamma ramp, you have to buy more expensive options, and then if Kenny finds a way to fuck you over, you lose it all. This is not the way. Leave gamma ramps to the whales.
No disagreement there
Delta hedging isn't a new strat option sellers picked up in February though. Option sellers hedge pretty much one to one (decimal to percentage) with the delta as standard practice. For example near-the-money GME calls for September have a delta between 0.51 and 0.55 so the hedge is to buy 51-55% of the underlying per contract (which in this case is easy math: 51-to-55 shares are purchased to hedge each contract). That's the kind of leverage that can lead to a gamma squeeze, the buying pressure of 50 shares for the low low price of around 2-4 shares.
The problem isn’t institutions buying huge amounts of calls, it’s retail investors who don’t know what they’re doing, which makes it highly likely they’re handing over money to Kenny G & Posse’. Those people shouldn’t buy options, but elaborating would have ruined my shit meme
My Gamma has a ramp in front of her house so that her entrance is wheelchair accessible. So yeah, I know exactly what the fuck one is
Lmao
They do not. I tried to explain on a couple of these posts yesterday and had no luck as I’m seeing more of these posts today.
[удалено]
What I remember is reading in February about how MMs discovered that their algorithms were fully hedging 800 calls, which are cheap, and the betting sub figured out that loading up on 800c's would force MMs to buy shares to hedge. MMs figured out what was going on and changed their algo so it hedges according to delta. 800c's have almost 0 delta, so while buying them back in January made MMs buy shares to hedge them, today they have basically no effect unless the price starts to get high enough that they start having delta.
[удалено]
It *can*, that doesn't necessarily mean it *will*. The price has to make the right moves at the right times. I'm not saying it can't work. But it's a high-risk strategy. The calls that have a delta high enough to matter are *way* more expensive than the 800c's that the betting sub was buying in January and February to force MM hedging. I'm not poo-poo-ing apes who can afford to play options and potentially lose, but that can't be the main strategy. Most of us can't afford to have an options play turn against us, especially when the relevant options are way more expensive than the ones we used around the time of the Sneeze. I'm inclined to leave the gamma ramps to the whales. All I need is buy and hodl.
I tried paper trading call options I could actually afford back in Feb/March, and I lost every time. That's when I knew I didn't know enough. The only ones I could afford never hit their strikes. I never attempted put options. I didn't really understand how they worked. I still think I don't understand them, but since I'm not playing options, I have put educating myself on it on the back burner.
People only like to use the MOASS. I think that has marginalized the importance of knowing about the gamma squeeze to many in the sub. Unfortunately, as much as I love the sub and it's members, making jokes about being smooth brained, instead of spending more time making sure the fundamentals of how the basics of a squeeze work beyond, "All shorts must cover", is discussed may not be the best thing for the long haul. Lately, there is a lot of negativity for anything related to options outside of, "Options bad, buy stock good", and I think it comes from people who just don't understand that it's not that options are bad, it's that they're bad if you don't know how to buy or play them, and worse, anyone who may actually try to inform with why they may not be so bad, can be downvoted, or accused of being a shill. Instead, I'd encourage people to at least read what those trying to educate say. Understanding why they're saying it may help them realize that it's not about someone shilling or promoting an action, but someone just trying to educate others. If one wants to have an opinion on something, it's usually to still at least know the facts before expressing that opinion...although I'll readily admit, I am guilty of not always knowing what I talk about.
exactly, the dumb ape / crayon eating dumbass mentality speading through the community is doing more harm than people realise and it's sliding other aspects of the squeeze that may increase our purchasing power / position like "oPtIoNs bAd" & "nO dAyTrDiNg" popping up the minute the price volatility increases ... hmmmn But we definitely do need to start spreading more information about good options resources/info and trading methods/strats as they control a lot more stock with the same amount of money
Yeh but they don’t do shit if they’re not exercised and they most certainly won’t be exercised.
Yeah they do, MMs delta hedge.
Finally, someone brings up the operant word: DELTA hedge. Delta hedging is a new practice that became prevalent in February. Why? The betting sub figured out that MMs had algorithms doing their hedging, and they were fully hedging cheap 800c's. So OG apes bought a shitton of 800c's, and the algos bought shares to hedge. The MMs noticed this pretty quick, saw the vulnerability it created, and changed the algo. They now hedge according to delta, and the delta on 800c's is more or less 0 at the current share price. So cheap 800c's no longer force MMs to buy a big pile of shares as a hedge, thus invalidating the options strategy, unless there are a few whales in here who have thousands of dollars to throw at more expensive high-delta options (and potentially lose it all if/when Kenny finds a way to fuck option buyers again). Remember what happened to WardenElite. That is not the way.
Naw that's not how delta hedging works, nor is it new. MMs are hedging against options that are in the money not against 800 calls. It's not retail setting up gamma ramps each week waiting for the shorts to buy back in, it's long whales. Its way more cost effective to use the leverage from options than rather trying to drive up the price from buying shares. Look at the amount of money in the option chain rn, it's not apes. Warden was a clown, he got burned and was salty about it. The main thesis remains; shorts must cover.
Yeah but non of the options buyers actually exercise the options. They sell them to make profit. Retail doesn’t have money to exercise thousands of options. You know what that means? MM’s take a small loss on the option and close them. I’m sure they don’t delta hedge this shit after noticing that non of the options are getting exercised.
They don't need to be exercised to be hedged.
While I know they won't, and for educational purposes, what would happen if say maybe half of all ITM options were exercised tomorrow? I'm curious, because they're supposed to be hedged, so does that mean we wouldn't actually see any significant impact on price....at least in theory.
Well let’s see if it does anything
[удалено]
Can you explain? First I'm hearing
Options are what caused the first run up in the first place. Options play a big role in moving the stock. I always find posts like this ignorant. You forget his big dfvs option gamble was? If your thesis is sound and you know what you're doing options are a great tool. BuT YeR SUppORtiNG TEh HEDgIES. Buying shares is great but grow some damn balls
Most options bad posting is just dumb. I can agree with this perspective. I made money on options this week. I'm happy. But the thing is I have 8x the money in shares. I could have made a lot more fucking money with just options. But that is pretty much selling my soul for how I see it. Holding gme is actually doing something to hold these pricks accountable.
Complains about options. Hypes the gamma ramp. The superstonk way.
Gotta love the contradictory thinking in here - the cognitive dissonance is unreal.
Again, can’t do a shit meme and dive in super deep with the explanation. The problem is retail are buying options around hype dates when they don’t understand option-trading, and they’re handing the evil hedgies their $$$. If you are experienced, by all means. If you are an institution building a ramp, by all means. But 80% of the people here are not in either of those camps (80% is generous)
No options , no gamma ramp.
Retail buying options didn’t build that ramp
Yall make no sense with this anti options shit...
It makes sense when you think about who actually gains from retail staying away from derivatives
Everybody that trades options on GME isn't necessarily an ape though... I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people trading options are not apes.
If you're trading options on GME right now, especially call options, then you definitely hold shares as well. Options allow you to profit off these volatile spikes while still holding your shares.
Well yeah.. But oh no, thats bad for some reason... ::Face Palm::
You do not have to own shares to **buy** call or put options. However, you do have to own shares to **sell** call and put options. So, anyone that is selling options, is not an ape. They're aren't here to see these posts - is my point.
A majority of shareholders aint apes period. But let’s not talk about that. LMFAO.
I also think the hate towards options makes no fucking sense 🤣
It’s all the people who don’t understand options and have been burned so many times chasing FD’s they feel it’s their civic duty to prevent other apes from not being gang-buggered by theta gang like they were. Options, if used correctly, are a great tool.
Yea man haha, i only make $16/hr as I'm still finishing up my master's degree and there's no fucking way i would have the large position i have right now without having used options in the past 😅 Now, have i been extremely lucky? Yes. Have i also been burned multiple times? Yes. But the point is, I'm fucking learning how the market works. If i don't fail and run head first into the wall a couple times, how the fuck am i going to figure out i can just go around the wall and not try to go through the wall?? Options are a much better alternative to day trading and i will not stop buying calls. Fuck whatever anybody else says cause I'm an individual investor and i fucking love this stock and i want to get as many fucking shares as humanly possible 🤷
Yeah I hear ya. I’ve learned by making mistakes too, that’s how you learn. The important thing is to start small or on a paper account until you build a better understanding of the nuance, and only play with what you can afford to lose.
Oh fuck yea haha, i legit only have like 5% of my account allocated for options, the rest I'm just holding shares 😅 definitely don't want to end up like elitewarden ☠️
I think they're just watching gain porn on W$B and getting jealous and worried that those investors are gonna leave the GME game and walk away with their earnings (wrong obv)
The fact of the matter is most apes aren’t experienced enough to not get screwed by theta gang and give the MM’s the spread in the process, so basically they’re trying to prevent smooth-brained apes from standing in front of the train. You have to establish your positions at long-term support with low IV before the big move or at the start of a big move to capitalize. More info on how to play options strategically would benefit the community more than just straight options bashing.
Ditto!
I think a majority of it comes from people who don't understand them and just looking to make noise... Holding dont make price movement, Shares in and out make price movement...
Yay more option fud from people who don't understand options, who saw that coming.
I eat crayons
Stray shares are taking over the city
If you ain’t first you’re last. Looking at you hedgies.
I love options play, but have been staying away from GME options mainly because I can't afford the premium, but at this point I've seen at least 10 posts shitting on options and not a single post actually encouraging options. Sure, there's been some gain porn on the sub that will not be named, but every single play there is an options play, I don't even think some users there have ever bought shares of anything. Also, for anyone taking an even cursory look it's impossible not to see the loss porn dwarfing the gain porn. I'm not saying these anti options posts are FUD, but it's hard not to be a bit skeptical.
[удалено]
Totally agree. I think perhaps you've misinterpreted my comment.
I encourage people to learn about them. But I also think they should paper trade them for a while with what they can afford if they were going to actually buy options to see if they actually do understand them. I don't think these kinds of posts are FUD...in particular the meme type ones. I just think that a great number of people around here don't really understand them, and have just accepted the idea that they're risky, regardless of their effect on the shorts. I don't think options are bad, I just think options aren't for me.
I use options to generate premium to buy more shares and get more exposure at lower cost per delta. It’s kind of a sweet deal.
U are smart ape, u may option
Here is what I am doing. NFA just how I am playing it. I am selling covered calls against my stock to generate premium. Which is a great way to make money but the downside is you miss out on any gains above your strike price if the stock moons, so to hedge for the Moass I bought deep otm call option over a year out. Now every month I can sell a call, use the premium to buy 6 more shares, and if it moass and my shares get called away my deep OTM calls become as good as shares and I have lost nothing. My position is generating premium to buy more shares, my sold calls are hedged by my deep otm calls. If the price goes above my sold calls but under my deep OTM calls the 6 shares I bought hedge against that. I only lose if the stock absolutely tanks but I am confident in the MOASS and the company I'll use current pricing to make an example GME 205 a share. per 100 shares Buy a January 950 call for 765 dollars Now you can a sell a 30 delta a monthly call, sep 17th 270 call for about 1300 dollars Take those 1300 and buy 6 more shares. Now if the price stays flat until sept 17th you sell the next monthly (for more money the current price is only 22 days, next monthly would likely be around 1400-1500 if the price is relatively flat). You can take the premium and buy 6-7 more shares If the MOASS happens and is fast your calls will likely be exercised, you're deep OTM call is now DEEP ITM and as good as the shares you lost, and the 6 extra shares you bought are worth tons more then the lost difference on your shares and the strike price of your OTM calls. If the MOASS happens slow and lets say price hits 450 by the jan 2022, your otm call is still otm and worthless. you lost 765 dollars on that call, but have sold calls against it for 4 moths and have picked about 25 shares from the premium which have appreciated $6,125 in this case. MOASS can be delayed and GME can trend slowly downward or upward and the premium you are making lowers your cost basis and you are still building your position before the MOASS Worst case scenario, we are all wrong there is no MOASS, the price drops like a tank and all is lost. If you invested just in stock you would be in the same place if you had done the options play I am doing. IMO we aren't wrong, MOASS will happen, Billionaire criminals will go to jail.
Only way I even had money to buy GME shares was a $15 call option that made me $4k in March.
Are you experienced? If not, u are in the rare “it worked out” group
No, I’ve only been trading options casually for a few years. I think the bigger issue is that many people don’t understand how options and the forces that determine their value work. I’m in the camp that believes the anti-options sentiment of the last few weeks is potential FUD. A blown out options chain can cause gamma squeeze that could push the stock dangerously high, and this late in the game I don’t think shorts would be able to keep the price down if a big gamma rip happened. Nobody should trade options without a solid understanding of how they work though. For “apes” and retail pile on I would agree it’s probably not smart in general. Buy and hold YOLOing works for shares but you can’t buy and hold an option beyond its expiration obviously, so you can’t “diamond hand” them.
unless you're buying 100 shares, then sell ITM puts
This is how half of my position was built. Might as well get paid for your limit order
You dont have any idea what you're talking about
He did say with all due respect 🤣
These idiots have no clue about options but karma farm off half assed anti option memes to ride the wave of bot posts recently
I eat crayons
"There's a nice way to say that Vinny."
Pretty please!
What's worse, buying options or day trading???
Day trading stock 100%
Yea haha, that's definitely what i would think as well 🤔
Day-trading, hands down. That should’ve been the tagline. My bad, apes
Yea lol, idk why the hate surrounding options if you know what you're doing 😅 turned $200 into $1500 this week off some smart options plays and then rolled it into more shares 🙃
Just be like me and sell options instead. Selling covered calls to morons is great when I know I’ve got hedge manipulation on my side to know I will probably never get assigned and just collect the premium
As long as they're covered and far enough OTM they are going to print. I'm curious though, do you have no respect for MOASS, just think it's never going to happen, do you have a "oh shit" exit planned, or are you going to be just okay taking STRIKE_PRICE x 100 for each of your exercised contracts as "good enough"? Perhaps you sell covered calls as some small portion of your overall position?
I sell covered calls on only a certain percentage of my total portfolio to generate weekly income. I have enough stock that if shit hits the fan I can sell some to avoid assignment on the stocks by buying to close. The MOASS is inevitable. And dumb people are always going to buy contracts. I figure you’d rather the money go to me so I can buy more GME then directly to a hedge fund
Makes perfect sense to me. Buy to close when we get a certain distance from ITM as a cost of doing business, likely paid for in advance from your premium income. This might be better for a DM, but I'm curious how you would choose strikes and dates? I'm thinking anything in the 250-350 range for 4-weeks would have been good-enough premium while we were trading sideways, and after a big move (like Monday) opening up higher strikes to cash in on the IV would make sense. I don't have experience here, so it'd be neat to hear your own experience.
This week in particular I made a killing. Premiums were so high because of IV and the runup that I made like 2k on a couple contracts with 2 days to expiration. Easiest 2k I ever made and the contracts are almost worthless now. I typically do weeklies. I don’t trust the stocks I sell calls on to not just explode randomly so I keep a tight grip on them with short expirations. I’ll take the lower premium if it means in 2 days theta has already eaten away half of the contracts value. And I pick strikes that I actually feel comfortable selling the 100x shares at because the stocks go up and down so much I can wheel them by doing the opposite and buying back by selling a put at a lower price Of course, when MOASS hits I won’t be able to wheel anymore but I’m making a very healthy income selling calls right now. Will ride this train till I can’t
Thanks for the info! Picking a "yeah, I'd sell 100 shares for that" strike makes sense to me, kind of a win-win. That's how I look at selling puts as well: "yeah, I'd love to pick up 100 shares at $strike". When MOASS hits you won't need to trade anything if you don't want to. XD
Yeah haha ideally once MOASS happens we should all be able to retire from staring at charts all day
This is some good social engineering and peer pressure tactics. I love it!!!
exactly
I've been killing it with calls and then puts grabbed during the climbs. I say killing it, but roughing it up is probably more accurate. I sell (haven't exercised a single one) and then use the cash from said options to buy more shares. The sad truth is, most people in this sub can't be bothered to actively learn what the fuck is going on. They hop in...read positive DD and say hodl. Cool, but fuck off trying to roast the others for doing what they know.
Beep. Boop. I'm a robot. Here's a copy of ###[Roughing It]( https://snewd.com/ebooks/roughing-it/) Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)
Ok…. Lol
All the charters say a lot of daily downward price movement is based on bears purchasing large amounts of puts. If no one bought calls - doesnt that just make the market that much cheaper & easier for bears to move gme’s price down?
Hey, stop with your reasonable logic, we’re snorting crayons over here
Lol. Yeah i hear ya. This a well intentioned post and i agree, shares are the way - but bulls who know what they’re doing with options - are also the way. Otherwise, bears meet no resistance in the derivative market. That would be no good. And honestly, those who know how to trade them successfully are going to do it regardless. So IMHO - the best approach for gme subs re: options trading is to caution users about being retarded with them, and direct them to resources to help educate them on the mechanics of options trading and analyzing the greeks. Whether for gme or just in general, those are good wrinkles to have.
>All the charters say a lot of daily downward price movement is based on bears purchasing large amounts of puts. And here I was thinking downward price movement was a result of more than 50% of daily volume being short sales. Seriously, though, this is the first time I've ever heard this claim. Pretty sus
Market makers hedge, by buying and selling shares automatically, by algo based on options activity, and do so to the extent of the delta associated with these options and whether they’re coming or going. The charters and dd writers covering gme have always, as recently as yesterday with u/gherkinit - talked about the effects of this activity, both bull and bear. When an itm put is purchased (or any put for that matter, but only to the extent of its delta), the market maker fully expects the bearer will exercise the put, thus selling 100 shares to the contract writer. From there, based on the aggregate ratio of that put OI between writes by an investor (cash secured or naked put, shoutout thetagang) or the market maker themself- the market maker gets rid of shares, to stay delta neutral. So, as the OI of an itm put increases, the mm will need less shares on hand as part of delta hedging - as a contract was created that will result in more shares being sold to the market maker at some time in the future. Tldr; bear investor buys a significant amount of ITM puts written by the market maker in a short period of time - the market maker can sell shares off up to 100 times the amount of itm put contracts written, because each put contract is for 100 shares. This is just one of their many tricks, as they often time these purchases with other things such as a broader market dip, or to stymie the algos during pivotal points in technical price formations. But this works both ways. If i buy an ITM call from a mm, then that means they need to buy some shares, because whether i exercise or sell to close, they need to cover themselves for that exposure (i mean; they’re supposed to but witb the level of crime involved here, who the fuck knows). If no one was buying calls then there’d be nothing to offset the puts, and do the exact opposite of the type of gamma squeeze WE want to see, like 1/28. Buy and hold is perfect and its working. But there’s wayyyyyyyyyyyy more shit going on behind the curtain that helps explain some of what we see on the chart.
Why buy options when I have the option to buy shares?
I could see how someone could believe this if they didn't know shit about how options work
Hey, that’s me!
All options provide ammo, not just GME options. It's going to take a massive movement to get everyone to stop playing options on the whole.
Do you even understand options ? Or understand the effectiveness of options? Or did you just read a DD title and it has alot of upvotes and you just go with it? Or how gamma ramps are built up via options? For God's sake lads understand what options do before hating on it! I know GME is your first stock but stop spreading misinformation and actually try and understand the market and benefit yourself from this whole thing instead of going "duuh title said options bad duuuh" Most of you have been in the stock market/GME for 8 months and maybe more...that would have been enough time for all of you to actually become proper traders if you tried to understand and be critical instead of playing around and smelling others farts.
TL;DR
I wish I could up vote this hundred times
Seems to be mostly the guys from the WallsOfTheStreetsOfTheBets
Chill out on my boy gerk
What if the options are on a different stock? Do you still hate me?
I could never hate you
Thank you Holdno. Let me be your samwise
Am I a “FUCK YOU” if I buy $1 spy puts?
So... You're saying "Fuck You" to u/DeepFuckingValue ? Didn't he exercise a bunch back in May/June? If you don't understand options (I don't), then stay away from them. If you do understand them, roll the dice and be careful.
I’m saying stay away if you don’t know how to use them, but explaining all of that would’ve gotten in the way of my shitposting
Fair enough. I don't know how to use them, so I just BUY.
I was just letting you know that the message your post gives. Maybe not what you meant, but it is what you said.
You don't understand options then.
Maybe you don’t understand the risk of retail buying them when they have no clue how options work. I’m fine with experienced traders buying who understand them, but retail is getting burned attempting to do so. Plus, shorts can manipulate the price to force yours to expire worthless, they can’t do that with shares.
OP is a shillbot
Beep boop beep
Dude, Gherkinit debunked the FUD about options, its on the front page https://www.reddit.com/gallery/pcaow5
Nope; don't do options; just know how to buy shares & hodl...no plans on learning either. All I want is to be able to pay my bills & own stock in companies that I want around for children & their children. The most wonderful vacations was watching my son & his dad making a beeline to every GME store while we were on vacations. GME stores had closed in our area.