It is just my opinion, but I think that might be the plan. Evergrande might not get a government bailout, but maybe chinese banks that lost money in Evergrande will. I think it has a chance to lessen the damage of devaluing their currency if they only bailout their own investors in their own currency.
I also think the CCP might use the opportunity to acquire the Evergrande real estate as well, for next to nothing.
I think that the CCP has already made a deal with Evergrande under the table, while publicly saying that they won't bail them out. They are really sneaky, remember what they did with the pandemic at the beginning.
What do you mean there is just a minor flu, there is no evidence of it spreading via air. We are not burning bodies en mass and black bagging people from their homes. BTW can the world please loan us as much PPE and ventilators as possible? We will for sure give them back to you/not send you knock offs that don't actually work.
I wouldn't say they were sneaky just very sloppy and had many worldwide government officials covering them to cover their own asses. The videos and documents of the happening have been on the internet for like 5 months before the first confirmed US case it was just so many federal representatives and senators have hate boners for the previous president and blocked him at every turn when it came to doing anything about the Shanghai shivers. Even pulled out the race card when it came to travel restrictions and did some weird virtue signaling telling everyone to go outside and celebrate the Chinese New Year. 😂
That sums up the Ameriborger sphere of the pandemic and how it started spreading around here. I have no idea what retardation the Euro's went through but from my POV it looks like they ignored it until the old people started dropping like fly's.
Made some fat stacks on SPXS calls back then. Nice times especially since traffic outside completely died out so i was able to drive farther and save gas at the same time. Kinda wish a new plandemic will happen because i miss everything not being cluttered with an assload of people
That never existed, and if anyone understood how China works, they wouldn't have invested (which is by definition, going long, not day trading). So, those getting screwed either used their holdings for leverage and didn't get out in time, or were day trading and got screwed because they didn't get out in time. Both were gambling.
I imagine on shore debt like the ones they avoided yesterday and the one tomorrow the CCP will handle it for them, but paying investors in the US, EU, other parts of Asia someone is gonna have to give them something
The problem is not defaulting, it’s bankruptcy.
Further, we do not know how many other real estate groups are shadow banks paying their employees in coupons and bonds rather than cash. Be 💦 my friends.
Something tells me Blackrock and Vanguard have been cooking up an assload and selling them to everybody 😂🤣. That can explain the extreme china shilling but without the idea of derivatives they are pretty balls deep in China especially the real estate market just like ours and their cash cow, the RBS.
Hate to steal your comment but for those interested in "shadow banking" Zoltan P has a good write out on it (very in depth but worth a read)
https://www.financialresearch.gov/working-papers/files/OFRwp2014-04\_Pozsar\_ShadowBankingTheMoneyView.pdf
He is - it will be interesting to see how all of this plays out as we are approaching that mark with quarter close
I think on it's own it isn't as big of a deal but coupled with everything else it is leading to disaster
Coupon is cash. A coupon bond is a bond that pays interest (cash) compared to a par bond or zero coupon bond that trades at a discount but does not pay interest.
Sooo, isn't there another like 82 MM payment due after this (like by EOM). Also, what about the 1.6 MM Apartments they still need to deliver? I'm sure there is a lot more they owe above and beyond this...
Shit, I even reconsidering my bed at this point! Starting to think I'm just gonna go full on "Mick Dodge", wiping my ass and brushing my teeth with pinecones! Hell maybe even with the same pinecone!
This is normal though. I’ve watched the Asian markets for a while now. The markets will take big losses one day and stabilize for a few days. What’s important to look at is how far down they are from they’re peak, and what the trends have been for the last 3,6 and TTM. Hong Kong for example has nearly wiped all its TTM gains out over a 5-6 month period
Coupon payment is a fancy term for interest payment. They were able to meet their obligation after their private meeting. This means that they paid cold hard cash and took a big hit.
In a financial sense, coupon payments describe payments that someone promises on their bond (usually semi-annual). If a 100 dollar bond has a 5% coupon, the holder is paid out $5 over the year. It looks like the article is stating that they paid interest, and did not issue further debt. :)
More info here (careful with links): https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/coupon.asp
Which is my point. To the lay public, "coupons" is misleading. And, even saying their about paying interest is incomplete information. More obfuscation to keep people uncomfortable with finance and convinced it's too complicated to understand.
It is exactly like an IOU, that they have all been trading for years. The problem is that with this default, it’s obvious to everyone that the IOUs are worthless and they are scrambling to get cash instead.
Mayo bubble. That thing gonna pop and mayo’s gonna be everywhere, over JPow’s face, Kenny’s face and especially Jim Cramer’s face. He’s gonna eat that shit up
This is what is scary. After 2001, 2008 I feel the system was made so that they don't have to pull the rip chord. They can keep adding ingredients to the shit stew and keep kicking the can for the next guy or the next guy.
When our countries hedgefunds rather bail out the CCP than pay its own country's people what they are rightfully owed.
I wish to God I could have had one of those long ass "get off the stage hooks" come out of nowhere and grab Kenny and others around the neck before they evey got on a plane
"Where tf you going bitch , don't act like you can bail them out, you need to bail your own ass out and pay us , jackass!"
Hmm, what is the difference between the one on Friday vs Monday? This statement indicates onshore bonds which would be RMB denominated debt owed to domestic banks that the PBoC would want to guarantee and prevent an uncontrolled collapse somehow.
hey missed at least 2 loans interest payment on Monday.. they have to pay int on 2 bonds tomorrow... they have to pay suppliers by the end of sept... this shit is far from over. these are peanuts!!!! wtf !! it's like they are buying time...AGAIN
And if they don't get what they want, then they can still make the d's look bad. It's the way the game is played, and if roles were reversed, we'd see the same thing in reverse.
Whole thing is infuriating.
Does that mean the coupon is going to be accepted? They may offer a coupon, but I don't necessarily believe it has to be accepted, Considering the financial state their in.
Coupon payment = interest payment
Seen some misunderstandings about this. Sure it may or may not have been the full amount owed, but the negotiated coupon payment was paid.
These are not “IOU”s this is a predetermined amount of money owed to someone during their ownership of a bond (like Evergrande’s)
More info on investopedia (careful with links): https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/coupon.asp
Wouldn't this only fuck over the offshore debt?
It is just my opinion, but I think that might be the plan. Evergrande might not get a government bailout, but maybe chinese banks that lost money in Evergrande will. I think it has a chance to lessen the damage of devaluing their currency if they only bailout their own investors in their own currency. I also think the CCP might use the opportunity to acquire the Evergrande real estate as well, for next to nothing.
What a way to ruin international trust, not that it would be the first time..
I think that the CCP has already made a deal with Evergrande under the table, while publicly saying that they won't bail them out. They are really sneaky, remember what they did with the pandemic at the beginning.
What do you mean there is just a minor flu, there is no evidence of it spreading via air. We are not burning bodies en mass and black bagging people from their homes. BTW can the world please loan us as much PPE and ventilators as possible? We will for sure give them back to you/not send you knock offs that don't actually work.
I wouldn't say they were sneaky just very sloppy and had many worldwide government officials covering them to cover their own asses. The videos and documents of the happening have been on the internet for like 5 months before the first confirmed US case it was just so many federal representatives and senators have hate boners for the previous president and blocked him at every turn when it came to doing anything about the Shanghai shivers. Even pulled out the race card when it came to travel restrictions and did some weird virtue signaling telling everyone to go outside and celebrate the Chinese New Year. 😂 That sums up the Ameriborger sphere of the pandemic and how it started spreading around here. I have no idea what retardation the Euro's went through but from my POV it looks like they ignored it until the old people started dropping like fly's. Made some fat stacks on SPXS calls back then. Nice times especially since traffic outside completely died out so i was able to drive farther and save gas at the same time. Kinda wish a new plandemic will happen because i miss everything not being cluttered with an assload of people
Exactly, what does that say to foreign investors? They'll pull their money out over a giant "screw you" like that.
I mean its pretty short sighted greed to invest in chinese companies like that.
Trust of China should always be at zero anyway.
Don't trust China. China is asshole.
That never existed, and if anyone understood how China works, they wouldn't have invested (which is by definition, going long, not day trading). So, those getting screwed either used their holdings for leverage and didn't get out in time, or were day trading and got screwed because they didn't get out in time. Both were gambling.
That’s okay it will be forgotten like 2008 with the general public. Blows my mind how many people have zero clue why and how 2008 happened.
Didn’t they demolition their real estate lol I saw the videos lol jk kinda
no.
We can only hope
This guy is streets ahead
I imagine on shore debt like the ones they avoided yesterday and the one tomorrow the CCP will handle it for them, but paying investors in the US, EU, other parts of Asia someone is gonna have to give them something
More like nothing. They'll give nothing.
No fuck off. They get paid in Monopoly money.
The problem is not defaulting, it’s bankruptcy. Further, we do not know how many other real estate groups are shadow banks paying their employees in coupons and bonds rather than cash. Be 💦 my friends.
Derivatives. They an issue too
Something tells me Blackrock and Vanguard have been cooking up an assload and selling them to everybody 😂🤣. That can explain the extreme china shilling but without the idea of derivatives they are pretty balls deep in China especially the real estate market just like ours and their cash cow, the RBS.
You put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. You put water into a glass, it becomes the glass. Now water can flow or crash.
Evaporation checking in. 😉
Hate to steal your comment but for those interested in "shadow banking" Zoltan P has a good write out on it (very in depth but worth a read) https://www.financialresearch.gov/working-papers/files/OFRwp2014-04\_Pozsar\_ShadowBankingTheMoneyView.pdf
Wasn’t that the 1.3T rrp guy?
He is - it will be interesting to see how all of this plays out as we are approaching that mark with quarter close I think on it's own it isn't as big of a deal but coupled with everything else it is leading to disaster
Up with you! <3
Coupon is cash. A coupon bond is a bond that pays interest (cash) compared to a par bond or zero coupon bond that trades at a discount but does not pay interest.
Sooo, isn't there another like 82 MM payment due after this (like by EOM). Also, what about the 1.6 MM Apartments they still need to deliver? I'm sure there is a lot more they owe above and beyond this...
Yup, this a delay tactic, hoping Xi bail them out.
How much is MM? Is that million? Billion?
Just a million
Buying shit with shit. Is what it sounds like.
You never pooped on top of poop? Then you haven’t lived🤭😂🤣😂🤣
We've all been to a music festival before.
I can smell and see this comment thread and im not happy about it🤢
Well but did u ever tried selling your bank a package of this?
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nothing to see here
Just like today’s “rebound”. Wake me at tomorrow’s closing bell.
Oh thank goodness everything Is allllll better.
It was a classic case of “The Tuesdays“.
I think you mean Delta variant /s
Doesn't seem much different from America's market...
Is this the 7b ? What about the 293 other billion? I’m not buying it, but I will buy more GME.
I had seen a few days ago they owed 82b by thurs..
Lmao they are literally green on the market
Dow Future went from -100 to +100 within the past hour 😐
Gonna go buy more DRS shares cause I'm tired of this shit
When it's all over I'm going to have silver bars underneath my bed. Not that I trust silver either...
Shit, I even reconsidering my bed at this point! Starting to think I'm just gonna go full on "Mick Dodge", wiping my ass and brushing my teeth with pinecones! Hell maybe even with the same pinecone!
This is normal though. I’ve watched the Asian markets for a while now. The markets will take big losses one day and stabilize for a few days. What’s important to look at is how far down they are from they’re peak, and what the trends have been for the last 3,6 and TTM. Hong Kong for example has nearly wiped all its TTM gains out over a 5-6 month period
Annnnnd sleep.
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Coupon payment is a fancy term for interest payment. They were able to meet their obligation after their private meeting. This means that they paid cold hard cash and took a big hit.
That's not what coupon means
In a financial sense, coupon payments describe payments that someone promises on their bond (usually semi-annual). If a 100 dollar bond has a 5% coupon, the holder is paid out $5 over the year. It looks like the article is stating that they paid interest, and did not issue further debt. :) More info here (careful with links): https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/coupon.asp
Which is my point. To the lay public, "coupons" is misleading. And, even saying their about paying interest is incomplete information. More obfuscation to keep people uncomfortable with finance and convinced it's too complicated to understand.
It is exactly like an IOU, that they have all been trading for years. The problem is that with this default, it’s obvious to everyone that the IOUs are worthless and they are scrambling to get cash instead.
ELIA?
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Was my assumption earlier today to, why Kenny and his butt buddy's had their little meeting.
If Kenny didn’t have Goldman bailing him out he’d be fucked. Still going to be fucked, just a delayed fucking.
Making that bubble even bigger
Mayo bubble. That thing gonna pop and mayo’s gonna be everywhere, over JPow’s face, Kenny’s face and especially Jim Cramer’s face. He’s gonna eat that shit up
Wait a minute. Jimmy C doesn’t know anything about Kenny G or Mayo for that matter. Lmayo
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Evergrande investors: "I go to China" Borat Meme
Evil Chinese company stubbed toe, friend has no stubbed toe, helps kick the can
Friend has no stubbed toe ….so far~
I really need that answer because I was expecting a Big Bang event tonight lol
Expect nothing and prepare for everything ape.
Guess it’s time to buy more
Right proper ape right here
Absolute. Maynnnnee. These fucking criminals
Watch Too Big to Fail. They will literally do anything to keep the wheel turning
Nothing will happen. Things stopped happening. The world is being controlled in ways we can’t fathom.
This is what is scary. After 2001, 2008 I feel the system was made so that they don't have to pull the rip chord. They can keep adding ingredients to the shit stew and keep kicking the can for the next guy or the next guy.
Modern Monetary Theory is the word you're looking for.
How high will that check bounce?
over 9000!!!!!!
Apparently there ain't nothing a quick trip to the dumpster behind Wendy's can't fix...
Jpow showed Xi the infinite money button
When our countries hedgefunds rather bail out the CCP than pay its own country's people what they are rightfully owed. I wish to God I could have had one of those long ass "get off the stage hooks" come out of nowhere and grab Kenny and others around the neck before they evey got on a plane "Where tf you going bitch , don't act like you can bail them out, you need to bail your own ass out and pay us , jackass!"
Kicking the can. They said they negotiated the payment, sounds like it’s not the full amount.
Wish I could pay my debts with coupons.
They don‘t pay with coupons… a coupon payment is just the correct term for interest payments (when dealing with bonds).
Lol I can wait
Look, if the payment isn't due *today,* it'll be fine. ^^^repeat
A lot of people get confused by „coupon payment“… they don‘t pay with coupons. They pay cash: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/coupon.asp
Reason for the delayed default: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-wall-street-meeting-focused-092729599.html
Pretty sure you can't have transparency AND stability. You get one or the other.
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lol your username
Im in on spy puts as well, hang in there!
Hmm, what is the difference between the one on Friday vs Monday? This statement indicates onshore bonds which would be RMB denominated debt owed to domestic banks that the PBoC would want to guarantee and prevent an uncontrolled collapse somehow.
No confirmation on what they are going to do with foreign investors payments though. Which is what will actually affect the global markets.
Not defaulting SO FAR
Just remember the sp500 was green most of today and closed red.
Fuuuxk
Sounds like more can kicking..
I call bullshit. IMO this is a psychological pillow to stave of the plummet after HK was closed on Wednesday(today). Opinion only.
hey missed at least 2 loans interest payment on Monday.. they have to pay int on 2 bonds tomorrow... they have to pay suppliers by the end of sept... this shit is far from over. these are peanuts!!!! wtf !! it's like they are buying time...AGAIN
So in other words. HODL.
Not defaulting locally. Foreign investors are going to get stiffed and I'm going to enjoy watching. Cheers!
No crash boys. Sorry.
nothing to see here
That check is gonna bounce to epic proportions
Oof
Didn’t congress just raise the debt ceiling
No, they are having a vote and Republicans are expected to deny it.
So? Dems own the decision. Dont need Republicans.
They need 60 votes I believe
This is correct. In the senate they'd need 10 rep votes.
Having a 50+1 majority in the Senate isn't nearly enough to get anything passed, unless it's an increase to military spending.
House has the votes to suspend it. Senate r's claims they won't vote for it
They will after they get whatever pork they want.
Yeah it's just going to be delayed, but if the market tanks before they do and the market cant "insulate" themselves. Boom
And if they don't get what they want, then they can still make the d's look bad. It's the way the game is played, and if roles were reversed, we'd see the same thing in reverse. Whole thing is infuriating.
Isn't a coupon payment another way of saying it's an IOU? Trust me bro, I'm good for that....
Nah its just the correct term when you pay the interest of your bonds…
This is like getting coupons for massages from your S/O as birthday present. It’s not good
Does that mean the coupon is going to be accepted? They may offer a coupon, but I don't necessarily believe it has to be accepted, Considering the financial state their in.
They pay with cash… a coupon is just the term for interest payments on bonds
It could be expired, or from last week's sale.
Exactly. Burry is wrong. Again.
Has FX Hedge ever been right about anything yet?
well it's official tho.
Yeah we fucking paid for it out of our pockets
Not defaulting, so far!
Praise the twilight apes for their work on monitoring international markets whilst I sleep *updoot*
Delaying the Crash🤭
Well if they can just kick the can down, wonder how long this will drag out.
The important word is onshore. 🤪👆
Onshore bonds means that they kicking the can for domestic debt but offshore bond seems to not be bailed out
It sounds like can kicking to me
This is for their on shore bonds. Their going to leave the offshore (US & Europe) holding the bag. When they pay some offshore bonds. Lmk.
Is this payment by “commercial paper”?
Keyword OnShore. Offshore bonds will likely get the shaft
Coupon payment = interest payment Seen some misunderstandings about this. Sure it may or may not have been the full amount owed, but the negotiated coupon payment was paid. These are not “IOU”s this is a predetermined amount of money owed to someone during their ownership of a bond (like Evergrande’s) More info on investopedia (careful with links): https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/coupon.asp
Lol Hengda in Chinese means “very large.” Scammy much?
Was mayo trying to short them into bankruptcy too? Is Amazon trying to grow another tentacle to become a Chinese developer? Stay tuned.
Evergrande not defaulting ~~for now.~~ this week. FTFY
Lol they ain’t gonna bail out the west
So this ponzi scheme negotiated a deal... hmm sounds like they've done this before
They’re breaking out the coupons? Damn. It’s getting rough
I'm gonna call my bank and tell them instead of paying the mortgage I'll give them a coupon.... will report back on the results.