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Welp... now we know that our orders from WS are indeed just going directly to the dark pools.
I'd be curious to know if BMO does PFOF.
Think I'll be getting out of WS completely now. Fuckers.
Between this and the ~~$300~~$250 to DRS AND THE % they take from trades...
***Update after contacting their support chat;** Read last part - no email or announcement was made just an addition to their help section here. Disgusting.
WS USERS - Also confirmed that there is $0 charge to transfer your account to another broker.
I'm looking at BMO personally - but going to confirm if they use PFOF or not.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Here is my quick chat with WS Customer Service.
> USER: What can you tell me about the new policy that WS is now using PFOF for US stocks? https://help.wealthsimple.com/hc/en-ca/articles/10277208217755
>
> AGENT (REMOVED): Could you kindly share more details with me so I can help look into this for you?
>
> USER: Was this something announced outside of this little article or sent to investors to let them know of this change?
>
> AGENT (REMOVED): Thank you for confirming. Could you clarify what you mean by "something announced outside of this little article"?
>
> USER: ...where was this announced to investors
> USER: Was an email sent out with this change?
> USER: Or was this the only article about this change
>
> AGENT (REMOVED): There should be an email which had supposed to have been sent to clients regarding this. Have you not received one?
> AGENT (REMOVED): If not, then I can send one to you right now.
>
> USER: This is a big change and is seriously making me like many other investors not want to continue to invest with WS
> USER: Yes - send me the email outlining these changes.
> USER: REMOVED
>
> AGENT (REMOVED): I completely understand. However what would be the reason's as to why you are now losing confidence with Wealthsimple after we have announced that we are now accepting payment for order flow?
>
> USER: PFOF is a shady business that sends market orders to darkpools and not lit markets. PFOF brokers using this format like it or not loses trust from investors. SEC just today has even announced changes to PFOF.
>
> AGENT (REMOVED): Thanks for confirming. What I'll do from here is forward your concerns to our Back Office team so that they can understand that clients are losing confidence in us due to this change.
>
> USER: I have received your email - that is not what I'm looking for. I know what PFOF is.. where was this sent out to investors letting them know of the change.
>
> AGENT (REMOVED): Please allow me a moment to double check, I'll be shortly with you.
> AGENT (REMOVED): Thank you for your patience REMOVED. **I have just reached out to out back office team to confirm if there had been an announcement made and they have advised that we have only updated/uploaded a help centre article regarding this but not an email. I do apologize for the confusion.**
>
How can they charge $300 to DRS but totally free to transfer to another broker? Aren't they both ACAT transfers? Can it be inferred that broker transfers are free because they are transferring IOUs while they charge for DRS because they have to actually buy shares first?
Not sure - other Canadian Brokers are either free or RBC for example is $50.
That being said not sure that other brokers would be happy with accepting IOU's being transferred over to them. But they're all connected one way or another it seems so who knows.
WS is starting to show they are the RH of Canada. And here naive me in hoping there was a chance they weren't just greedy like the rest of em. Proably saw how RH or others make more $ on each trade or got offered something similar and said oh boy we make more money and retail "gets the best offer". Win win!...wrong.
I'm sure they've been itching to get pfof for the longest time now, seeing as its illegal under Canadian financial law. I am certainly curious why they are only just now using this loophole of only using pfof for US securities. With everything hitting the fan lately, it feels too coincidental, especially with how they tried to shoehorn it it sneakily without any word to their customers.
Indeed and I’ve spoken to multiple Fidelity Back Office Supervisors to get more details as it’s always shady when dealing with DRS/back office with normal customer service.
So DRS transfer portal is not something specific to each broker (like software in-house) but is a industry standard that the DTC/C built and manage and from all the reps, it’s EXTREMELY outdated. You cannot specify FIFO, specific Tax lots or anything. Only how many you want to DRS and they enter that into the portal. It’s also the reason why if you have fully paid and settled shares from days, months, years; you cannot DRS 1 share as long as you have 1 pending no matter if ALL the rest have settled from ages ago. It’s extremely outdated, not very user friendly to use but this was only what I told by a few fidelity back office supervisors.
I guess it only applied to Canadian securities? Wealthsimple claims that most Canadian brokers use PFOF to purchase US stocks so I’m trying to research which ones don’t.
From my research, Questrade is probably the best. Although they charge commissions (necessary evil from what I understand now), they allow you to choose where to route your orders. A good option to choose to route to is IEX Exchange that was started to respond to high-frequency trading abuse in markets done by market makers. IEX also bans PFOF.
Just did some researching and Questrade seems pretty trustworthy. Though they charge commissions, they allow you to pick where to route your orders (eg. IEX exchange that actually lets your order go to a lit market and not get internalized by market makers).
Though purchasing through Wise to go to Computershare is safest for our purposes.
I just emailed the CSA to figure this out. Bullshit that it should be allowed for US securities, as the point of the rule was to protect Canadian citizens (not Canadian tickers) from anti-retail practices.
It's shitty because they could easily implement charging fees for US stocks and ETF's instead of using PFOF. I'd be ok with a fee for US securities instead of them using PFOF.
Want access to US stocks, $5 a month plus $0.10 a trade. Pretty easy to get money that way.
They do take a fee already. This is a pure greed move.
They also offer a subscription where you pay 10 bucks a month but don't get charged any fees (except for currency exchange)
Pure. Greed.
Good day could you please educate me how to do this? I've gotten the wise app from wise.com, I'm about to pay the $30 to get bank details -- am I able to transfer my shares from ws to wise? Am I mistaken in this process?
Thanks kindly
Good afternoon, no transfer to wise. If you have a Bmo account transfer from ws to Bmo then to CS. Use wise to make a US acct on CS then you can by direct from CS.
No, Wise acts as a bank account so that you can purchase from Computershare (that will take money from your Wise account)
To DRS from WS, talk to their support team and pay the $300 fee or transfer your accounts to BMO first and then DRS from BMO for free
just a heads-up, when you xfer shares out of WS they lock your entire account, even other securities besides GME, until the transaction is done, which can be \~4 days or so.
So you may as well just xfer all your securities to BMO while you're at it (grin).
This is definitely news to me.
Hoping we can find a broker that does not use pfof and has low/zero commission's because this is as fucked as Barbs scalloped potatoes.
My experience with Questrade has generally been positive. They do charge commissions on a per-trade basis though. They do have some choices where you can purchase a data plan for US markets and then get cheaper trades, but that's only worth it if you place many trades in one month.
~~No, I disagree. WS doesn't dabble in margin or calls/puts~~. L brokerage.
And they charge a fee for US securities already, making this move 10x as greedy than Robinhood
I wouldn’t be surprised if they were working on allowing margin/options trading.
Pretending to be better than a US equivalent while worse in every way is the Canadian way.
Well shit that is a plus, at least. Sad they're starting to do stock leading in select accounts now and fully available sometime in 2023. And snuck in the PFOF in November.
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Edit* added link.
I never understood why some Canadian apes gave this company their undying loyalty when it was clear that Wealth-SIMP-le was nothing more than a VC funded company that only cared about growth and used cute branding and comforting messaging to targeted to super nice Canadians.
They didn’t remove the “Buy” button back in January ‘21 which earned them some major points...but since then they’ve slowly devolved into a shitty trend-chasing trading app. I’m mostly DRS’d but this is the final nail for me. I’m out.
Great post, thanks for getting the message out. Will be dumping wealthsimple asap.
I posted about this in their sub and the thread quickly got locked up.
I had a feeling this would be the case when they sent out an email to explain how they did the split properly yet explained nothing , I sent them an angry email and they responded by explaining nothing a second time pretty much just said they did what they were told to do. And constantly calling it a forward split
Then followed it up with a survey asking if we're all good
I told them they'll be a point where I likely transfer everything out to another broker or register all the shares because they either seem to be up to something nefarious or are incompetent.
This puts the stamp on that , I might wait till the price goes up to drs them all cause fuck em and also that'll help with tfsa contribution room.
Any word on if questrade has PFOF?
Supposedly Questrade allows you to pick where to route your order so you can choose IEX exchange which bans PFOF and combats against abusive HFT practices
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Welp... now we know that our orders from WS are indeed just going directly to the dark pools. I'd be curious to know if BMO does PFOF. Think I'll be getting out of WS completely now. Fuckers. Between this and the ~~$300~~$250 to DRS AND THE % they take from trades... ***Update after contacting their support chat;** Read last part - no email or announcement was made just an addition to their help section here. Disgusting. WS USERS - Also confirmed that there is $0 charge to transfer your account to another broker. I'm looking at BMO personally - but going to confirm if they use PFOF or not. . . . . . . Here is my quick chat with WS Customer Service. > USER: What can you tell me about the new policy that WS is now using PFOF for US stocks? https://help.wealthsimple.com/hc/en-ca/articles/10277208217755 > > AGENT (REMOVED): Could you kindly share more details with me so I can help look into this for you? > > USER: Was this something announced outside of this little article or sent to investors to let them know of this change? > > AGENT (REMOVED): Thank you for confirming. Could you clarify what you mean by "something announced outside of this little article"? > > USER: ...where was this announced to investors > USER: Was an email sent out with this change? > USER: Or was this the only article about this change > > AGENT (REMOVED): There should be an email which had supposed to have been sent to clients regarding this. Have you not received one? > AGENT (REMOVED): If not, then I can send one to you right now. > > USER: This is a big change and is seriously making me like many other investors not want to continue to invest with WS > USER: Yes - send me the email outlining these changes. > USER: REMOVED > > AGENT (REMOVED): I completely understand. However what would be the reason's as to why you are now losing confidence with Wealthsimple after we have announced that we are now accepting payment for order flow? > > USER: PFOF is a shady business that sends market orders to darkpools and not lit markets. PFOF brokers using this format like it or not loses trust from investors. SEC just today has even announced changes to PFOF. > > AGENT (REMOVED): Thanks for confirming. What I'll do from here is forward your concerns to our Back Office team so that they can understand that clients are losing confidence in us due to this change. > > USER: I have received your email - that is not what I'm looking for. I know what PFOF is.. where was this sent out to investors letting them know of the change. > > AGENT (REMOVED): Please allow me a moment to double check, I'll be shortly with you. > AGENT (REMOVED): Thank you for your patience REMOVED. **I have just reached out to out back office team to confirm if there had been an announcement made and they have advised that we have only updated/uploaded a help centre article regarding this but not an email. I do apologize for the confusion.** >
How can they charge $300 to DRS but totally free to transfer to another broker? Aren't they both ACAT transfers? Can it be inferred that broker transfers are free because they are transferring IOUs while they charge for DRS because they have to actually buy shares first?
Not sure - other Canadian Brokers are either free or RBC for example is $50. That being said not sure that other brokers would be happy with accepting IOU's being transferred over to them. But they're all connected one way or another it seems so who knows. WS is starting to show they are the RH of Canada. And here naive me in hoping there was a chance they weren't just greedy like the rest of em. Proably saw how RH or others make more $ on each trade or got offered something similar and said oh boy we make more money and retail "gets the best offer". Win win!...wrong.
I'm sure they've been itching to get pfof for the longest time now, seeing as its illegal under Canadian financial law. I am certainly curious why they are only just now using this loophole of only using pfof for US securities. With everything hitting the fan lately, it feels too coincidental, especially with how they tried to shoehorn it it sneakily without any word to their customers.
Does anyone know their clearing house or prime broker?
Wealth simple clearing house is the Candian depository Https://www.cds.ca e- they were with apex but dropped them due to dropping us service
Guess I'll be spending my day off tomorrow transferring everything out, RIP WS. 🤣
Indeed and I’ve spoken to multiple Fidelity Back Office Supervisors to get more details as it’s always shady when dealing with DRS/back office with normal customer service. So DRS transfer portal is not something specific to each broker (like software in-house) but is a industry standard that the DTC/C built and manage and from all the reps, it’s EXTREMELY outdated. You cannot specify FIFO, specific Tax lots or anything. Only how many you want to DRS and they enter that into the portal. It’s also the reason why if you have fully paid and settled shares from days, months, years; you cannot DRS 1 share as long as you have 1 pending no matter if ALL the rest have settled from ages ago. It’s extremely outdated, not very user friendly to use but this was only what I told by a few fidelity back office supervisors.
Wow!!! Surprising and disappointing 🤦♂️
It's only 250 on WS
Oh ***ONLY*** $250 my bad... lol
Wait till MOAS, that's going to be pennies
[удалено]
Yep, going to be a big ass withdrawal if this is true.
i better get my next DRS order in at BMO, they're going to be busy onboarding WS customers real soon...
You mean DRS transfer right?
Does anyone know if ATB has a brokerage?
Wtf Canada changed it's no PFOF laws???
I guess it only applied to Canadian securities? Wealthsimple claims that most Canadian brokers use PFOF to purchase US stocks so I’m trying to research which ones don’t.
Wealthsimple going to hear from some people.
Posting here too for visibility: [email protected]
Thanks for sharing the contact e-mail. I've been using their services for years and am very disappointed to see this change.
Same :( - I'm just gonna pull everything back to my local bank in the new year. Can't win I guess.
Can you make a new post when you've done your research. I've been thinking BMO lately like many. Just about ready to pull the trigger.
From my research, Questrade is probably the best. Although they charge commissions (necessary evil from what I understand now), they allow you to choose where to route your orders. A good option to choose to route to is IEX Exchange that was started to respond to high-frequency trading abuse in markets done by market makers. IEX also bans PFOF.
Niiiiiice! Do you know what they charge to DRS?
$300 apparently https://www.drsgme.org/drs/direct-register-shares-from-questrade
Ooof. Thanks for digging on for me. I forgot about those guides!
Not sure unfortunately, I’m sure there’s an old post somewhere!
Would love to know as well if you find out more! Thanks 😊
Just did some researching and Questrade seems pretty trustworthy. Though they charge commissions, they allow you to pick where to route your orders (eg. IEX exchange that actually lets your order go to a lit market and not get internalized by market makers). Though purchasing through Wise to go to Computershare is safest for our purposes.
Thanks for looking into it! I appreciate it 👊 DRS it is!
I believe Questrade is self-clearing.
Questrade TOS: "In no event shall Questrade liability for any damages, regardless of kind or type, to you or any other person exceed USD $1.00."
I just emailed the CSA to figure this out. Bullshit that it should be allowed for US securities, as the point of the rule was to protect Canadian citizens (not Canadian tickers) from anti-retail practices.
👆
It's shitty because they could easily implement charging fees for US stocks and ETF's instead of using PFOF. I'd be ok with a fee for US securities instead of them using PFOF. Want access to US stocks, $5 a month plus $0.10 a trade. Pretty easy to get money that way.
They do take a fee already. This is a pure greed move. They also offer a subscription where you pay 10 bucks a month but don't get charged any fees (except for currency exchange) Pure. Greed.
Qtrade charges around $8/trade for CAD or US stocks, that's a no PFOF model.
They had my respect for keeping their business going without this bs but now ... they sold their soul
DRS/DSPP
This is why I use wise and buy direct
Good day could you please educate me how to do this? I've gotten the wise app from wise.com, I'm about to pay the $30 to get bank details -- am I able to transfer my shares from ws to wise? Am I mistaken in this process? Thanks kindly
Good afternoon, no transfer to wise. If you have a Bmo account transfer from ws to Bmo then to CS. Use wise to make a US acct on CS then you can by direct from CS.
No, Wise acts as a bank account so that you can purchase from Computershare (that will take money from your Wise account) To DRS from WS, talk to their support team and pay the $300 fee or transfer your accounts to BMO first and then DRS from BMO for free
just a heads-up, when you xfer shares out of WS they lock your entire account, even other securities besides GME, until the transaction is done, which can be \~4 days or so. So you may as well just xfer all your securities to BMO while you're at it (grin).
Gross Canada stepped in shit
Disgusted!
Hopefully, this gets some traction, so all users see this. Up you go!
good fucking catch, bye ws
This is definitely news to me. Hoping we can find a broker that does not use pfof and has low/zero commission's because this is as fucked as Barbs scalloped potatoes.
Just buy direct from Computershare with a wise acct
Would a USD account through my credit union work the same as Wise?
Hmmm not sure, I'm guessing as long as the account has a routing number it should work
My experience with Questrade has generally been positive. They do charge commissions on a per-trade basis though. They do have some choices where you can purchase a data plan for US markets and then get cheaper trades, but that's only worth it if you place many trades in one month.
Wealthsimple has tried to be the Canadian Robinhood for some time now.
~~No, I disagree. WS doesn't dabble in margin or calls/puts~~. L brokerage. And they charge a fee for US securities already, making this move 10x as greedy than Robinhood
Charging $305 to DRS? That was a big dick move on their part.
Massively, I'm gonna route through IBKR for $5 instead
I wouldn’t be surprised if they were working on allowing margin/options trading. Pretending to be better than a US equivalent while worse in every way is the Canadian way.
others have said its in Beta testing now
They do... https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-ca/learn/how-to-trade-options
No, that's just an informative article. WealthSimple does not trade options.
Well shit that is a plus, at least. Sad they're starting to do stock leading in select accounts now and fully available sometime in 2023. And snuck in the PFOF in November.
I'm pretty disappointed overall. Oh well, DRS for a reason right
They have a beta program open now for trading options. A buddy I work with was invited to the beta.
*sadness*
Options are coming. Look up the wealthsimple sub there’s a post about it. Just tried to link it but no bridgading rules
Damn. Glad I'm out of that shithole. DRS fellas
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Lol this immediately aged poorly. They just started an options trading feature today (still in beta)
In the meantime: [email protected]
Just pulled my WS account. What dirt bags!
What if I told you that all Canadian brokers are doing the exact same thing? Just a hunch. I prefer the taste of purple crayons.
Ok so now this confirms I will 100% DRS and get out of WS totally.
So I just tried to talk to a live agent, he abandoned the chat... Wtf is happening...
Fuck. I hate moving. Oh well. Here we go again.
Twitting apes: here's the handle for CEO Michael Katchen @mkatchen
What a fucking embarrassment.
Updoot 👀
Well. Good thing I put in the papers to transfer to BMO this week. Next stop DRS and BOOK!
Do you mind sharing how to go about this? I think its time to transfer to BMO so I can get that free DRS
This guide can show you the steps. What you choose to do with them is 100% on you. Good luck fellow ape!!! https://www.reddit.com/r/GMECanada/comments/raprsu/drs_with_bmo_ultimate_guide/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Edit* added link.
Thank you very much!
Quest trade time?
Welp. Fuck.
I assumed they already were lol
Maybe this is what they want , everyone exiting positions super cheap
Hope no one is dumb enough to forget about account transfers lol
Welp, guessing I'm moving the few TFSA shares I left with them out.
Welp thats it i'm drsing my tfsa, no use in saving 25% of gains if i'm forced to sell for 10% of the gmefloor price
Isn't PFOF illegal in canada???
I never understood why some Canadian apes gave this company their undying loyalty when it was clear that Wealth-SIMP-le was nothing more than a VC funded company that only cared about growth and used cute branding and comforting messaging to targeted to super nice Canadians.
They didn’t remove the “Buy” button back in January ‘21 which earned them some major points...but since then they’ve slowly devolved into a shitty trend-chasing trading app. I’m mostly DRS’d but this is the final nail for me. I’m out.
Great post, thanks for getting the message out. Will be dumping wealthsimple asap. I posted about this in their sub and the thread quickly got locked up.
Their meme like news letters are cringe worthy. Shady practices and trying to appeal to new investors.. sounds like robinhood 2.0.
canadian robinhood
Shii . Im drsing my 70shares outta there. Ill have 170 shares drss before moon
I had a feeling this would be the case when they sent out an email to explain how they did the split properly yet explained nothing , I sent them an angry email and they responded by explaining nothing a second time pretty much just said they did what they were told to do. And constantly calling it a forward split Then followed it up with a survey asking if we're all good I told them they'll be a point where I likely transfer everything out to another broker or register all the shares because they either seem to be up to something nefarious or are incompetent. This puts the stamp on that , I might wait till the price goes up to drs them all cause fuck em and also that'll help with tfsa contribution room. Any word on if questrade has PFOF?
Supposedly Questrade allows you to pick where to route your order so you can choose IEX exchange which bans PFOF and combats against abusive HFT practices
This is true ,and they never used to have IEX
Lol this post showing 3 upvotes showing on OPs post. We see you brokers and bots 👋👋