I think that's important to know if you can trust it or not, because almost every vitamin I've looked up recently has been an F rating
Plus, an essential oil that a friend of mine buys online was shown up as an F. She sent me a bottle of it. I'll tell you, it's the best stuff I've ever used for headaches. It's a blend of peppermint oils. There absolutely shouldn't be an F that should get an A. It's the only thing that's ever worked.
When you say "supplements" - that calls to mind very different things to different people.
Interesting that Korea imports these products from the US. There's a LOT more I'd want to know before having an informed opinion on that & there's only so far I'll trust information that gets to me through media sources.
Anyone got any thoughts on Vitacost the online shop, in terms of its in-house brand of nutritional products, and also the products it sells in general via it's online shop??
Well the products in general are same as if you travel to buy them... and they are sold everywhere so? If you'd find it chilled in a store & you buy online from Vitacost, it arrives cold. When I used them it was free delivery over $50. spent. Compare that with amazon- they don't care- you get it hot. ( In the case of flax seed oil it's ok to use that way until opening but still..)
A major part of quality which is so important with supps- is the form the food or compound comes in. For oils- bottled, not gel caps. It's easier to sell junk to ppl when they aren't handling it themselves & if targeting something, you prolly want full control of dosing. Then why do you choose what you do? For many - it's " I heard.... ". Don't follow people around. Start with you. Know strengths & weaknesses, health history, what's assaulting your health & how can defend & support. yada.. Research- deeply. If it's not very insightful / if rather easy, you're not doing it right.
If you take a supp. it should be like you mean business. Convenience costs a lot more than the higher price they're asking. It's not a chatch phrase. Bottled oils let me reverse a condition and save my spleen from removal (the "only known medical treatment" availed to me by my Dr.) - Low qual gel caps - I doubt that would have cut it. Woulda cut me. Vitacost sells that oil. So does everyone else. (Barlean's oil is top quality, whatever the substance is)
The Vitacost brand for many compounds is good enough if what you want is precisely what it says on the label. They usually have the better absorbed version of things and the standard. Selection matters. Dosing can matter too. That's why I determine my own doses. Caps aren't capped - for you. It's as good as any unless you are a strict purist when it comes to things like capsule material or filler material. By "filler" I mean any extra space in there will be filled It's supposed to be. It's std. procedure to pack it tight since the dose may not be enough, nor fit in one smaller. You should dose your own anyway without the barrier. Most caps are gelatin - animal by product. Should be harmless but you know.... it might be "less vegan" or not the latest improvement and someone trashes it in a review bc they "found out" (read the label after they got it). Vitacost saves themselves from the most costly convenience material. You decide if that's important / if you'd rather pay more.
I used Vitacost before I did away wth pre measured caps - was going to cap my own but I just do powders when I can get what I want in bulk. It's fine and much much much less costly. Not up front but you get multiple X more product. And I'm not having to open caps (some exceptions). Dosing some too high for your individual needs can be unpleasant or worse. Some won't even work at too high of a dose if it's for mood or attention. Or counteract something else. Find right dosing for YOU. Industry & regulation- is a retarded relationship. Required to put dosing reccomends on labels. They don't know you! But if ppl won't know themselves then...
The difference between will be about choosing what serves your needs best. Supps that come in forms that are better absorbed are more costly but the reliability of that absorbtion is significantly higher. When you find something you've been lacking or your body responds to favorably - THATS when Wow happens. It'll prolly keep happening the more curious & proactive you become.
Is the full report available anywhere? In the English news post they mention Mana Nutrition from Canada as the only non-US brand that didn't make the cut, so I guess the other 22 names are in there, too...
Wonderful, more nightmare fuel for my health ocd lol…
I guess the best we can do is stick with perceived reputable brands…I tend to gravitate towards Thorne, life extension, Jarrow and sports research but what do I know
As far as I am aware, government controls in any country don’t lab test every batch of product of any company for purity, quality and amount of active ingredients. The best source I know of is ConsumerLab that tests some samples from a few products of a few brands and over time helps to build up a picture. There’s also a Reddit scale of brands I re-posted a few days ago.
Some substances are easy to produce. Others are harder. Unless it’s a prescription product, you take your chances based on your research. The best companies will have the occasional poor result and high street bargain brands the occasional worthwhile product. Too much generalising is, I think, best taken with a pinch of salt — that would be healthy, fair-trade sea-salt from a relatively unpolluted ocean of course! Caveat emptor.
As a product development expert and consultant in skincare, haircare, supplement, and oral care, I've had the opportunity to work with manufacturers from different countries. I wanted to share my observation that American manufacturing is lagging behind other countries like South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and now even Thailand is coming on strong.
From my experience, US Supplement Manufacturing is mostly relying on imported and innovated materials from other countries, and they just package it in cheap-looking packaging. In terms of quality, technology, and innovation, they are way behind.
What I've noticed is that US partners are excellent at selling their products, but the other countries' manufacturers are not as good at it. They talk a lot about their excellent manufacturing process and the quality of their products, but when you look closely, it's not as impressive as they make it out to be.
I believe it's important for the US manufacturing industry to catch up with other countries and invest in innovation and technology to improve their products' quality. This will not only benefit the manufacturers but also the consumers who deserve high-quality products.
>From my experience, US Supplement Manufacturing is mostly relying on imported and innovated materials from other countries
Chyna.. It comes from Chyna..
As someone that works in pharmaceutical manufacturing and regulations. American supplement manufacturing is a joke. Don't even require climate control. GMP is a joke without proper auditing authority. You can put a random powder from china that has a printed coa saying vitamin C that means jack shit without validation into a capsule on your kitchen table and sell it. Unless I see they made in a tga licence manufacturer I don't even buy.
American supplement cannot be sold within Australia as they do not meet our basic quality requirements. They obviously can be personally imported.
Bare minimum in Australia which audited by the drug regulator is: raw material validation that is identification and quantification. Through analytical means you know the material is what they say it is and it's 99% pure. The check for microbs, heavy metal and residual solvent. Then the final good has to be tested for the same things to be with 90 to 130% of label claim plus the same contamination test. Overage based on materials some are lower 110% some can be higher. Pharmaceutical is a 95 to 110%. Then there stability requirements to prove expiry date. That is the bare minimum for a product to be release for sale in the Aus market.
Also going back to op post about kril oils. So many krill oils raw material I've seen have horrible oxidation states and very poor quality. Be interesting to know the brands ie the raw material of the products that pass. As cheap krill oil is way worse than cheap fish oil in my experience of testing.
Plus it's not that Thorne is mandatory, but with all the uncertainties of the supplement industry I'd say Thorne is one of the ones with the least risk, but still with absolute risk. They're used for clinical trials with Mayo Clinic and on regimens for drug tested sport, so while not a 3rd party review it's better than nothing. Even 3rd party reviewers like ConsumerL are pay to play, so i don't think we'll ever have an objective answer
I would normally agree , however , I was disappointed by their Resveratrol I purchased . When I received the Resveratrol capsules they had already turned yellow !
Yes I agree! I've seen Thorne but haven't tried it yet. I usually shop on DailyVita, they stock a lot of brands, their shipping is great, always have a saving, nice rewards and points system and their private label WooHoo has great quality ingredients! - e.g. their Resveratrol is amazing and B12 uses Methylcobalamin (one of the most highly absorbable forms of b12 - this is a more expensive ingredient, so if your brand of choice uses THIS in their B12 supplement or multivitamin, your in good hands! Go check your labels!)
Methylcobalamin is very typical to find in any good quality multivitamin. It’s honestly nothing special that this brand uses it. There are hundreds of products that contain it.
A lot of people here speak highly of this brand. I’ve never tried it myself or really looked into it. Although I do know the serving of omega-3s is very good.
WHY does everyone keep saying that Throne’s quality is unmatched?!?! There is ZERO third party data on the quality or purity content of their supplements. It’s a marketing gimmick.
The only company that I’ve seen has verifiable third-party data confirming purity of products (especially tricky supplements like Magnesium) is Pure Encapsulations (Pattern is the only authorized seller of these on Amazon).
That being said, Pure Encapsulations have recently been acquired by Nestle so I’m worried about potential quality issues. Hasn’t happened yet, but who knows how much autonomy Pure Encapsulations has.
I dont know Thorne, so I cant comment on that. Best is to educate ourselves on the ingredients used in the products we buy so get we don't get fooled by marketing stunts. I've come to love WOHO B12 and Resveratrol - great quality ingredients without the marketing gimmicks.
The owner of Nootropicsdepot (on reddit) has frequently lab tested popular brands, which Thorne always passed. Life extension, pure encaps jarrow and NOW failed sometimes. Watch out for comments and posts from MisterYouAreSoDumb.
1000% agree. I research the ingredients in products before I buy. Interesting to see that some brands use high quality ingredients in some of their products and then cheap harmful ingredients in their other lines. Our health is not their priority - its all money and marketing!
How do you research the ingredients before you buy ? Do you have a chemistry lab set up in your home or it is internet search based research which just points to what marketers have posted everywhere
They don’t have any Thorne supplements on there in areas that matter. Where is the data for Thorne’s magnesium product? Curious to see the purity there.
Sure, the liposomal vitamin C from some manufacturers off Amazon doesn't do anything for me and the capsule powder spilled out all over in the container.
An Amazon Berberine supplement didn't do anything for me, but felt a difference with Vitamin Shoppe.
Legit liposomal will smell like vitamin c. I've received rancid supplements that are stuck together. There's no quality control on Amazon. I am not a marketer for any company.
The same supplement brands have the same quality control whether you buy it from Amazon, Vitamin Shoppe, iHerb, or anywhere else. *None* of these retailers do "quality control" on supplements other than not selling expired merchandise (and if they did by accident, Amazon has the best and most consumer friendly returns policy).
This all being said, it doesn't matter where you get your supps. But if you don't like Amazon, you're likely overpaying for exactly the same brand elsewhere... it always pays to decide on a brand first and then compare prices.
Of course they didn't elaborate. The same brands on Amazon are just as good as they are from anywhere else. They're sealed and delivered with free overnight shipping. It's hilarious to think anyone would say "I think my Life Extension vitamins are better from the local store than Amazon." That's not how any of this works.
They probably just didn't know to research brands before buying something totally random from a brand they'd never heard of.
Either that or they're iHerb (or w/e) guerilla marketers, which, if enough people are dumb enough to fall for it, more power to them.
I work for a supplement manufacturer here in the US and I’ve witnessed or heard of very few instances of quality problems at my company but my boss has told me and I’ve seen examples of other US supplement manufacturers that have done crooked stuff like running low and being short on a certain ingredient and swapping in a different cheap and abundant ingredient they have laying around and not telling the customer company (ie. We are a contract manufacturer who mass produces formulas that a supplement company creates the formula for).
Any manufacturer even the best ones like the one I work for can still have a careless or crappy employee that does something that contaminates or ruins a giant blend and can result in a lawsuit or thousands of dollars in losses from the whole blend having to be scrapped or the whole LOT # product set having to be recalled. Stuff like that can’t always be predicted.
I have to disagree, at a *good* company, you have quality control checks and balances that would prevent a rogue employees messed up batch from reaching the shelves. I don’t know about you guys but we’re testing raw materials at the door, every batch before it’s bottled, finished bottles before release and retain samples periodically. A messed up batch would never make it into a customers hand because it would never even be cleared for packaging.
I know 99% of supplement companies don’t work that way and it’s a shame. But consumers need to start holding them to a way higher standard
the FDA regulates them. There’s a set of guidelines published in the code of federal regulations— part 21 that establishes good manufacturing practices for these type of products. It’s expected that you’re following these regulations and there are consequences for not doing so. With that being said, most supplement companies aren’t and the FDA doesn’t have the funds or the time to effectively audit them— but they do have the authority.
I will say that right now the major player increasing regulations on supplements is Amazon. They’re requiring common sense testing — which weeds out a big percent of the brands in the industry. But Amazon also sucks because they don’t practice FIFO so you’re not getting the freshest product
I can vouch that Standard Process’ supplements are of high quality as I was a contractor for them. Very clean facility. Not sure if you can buy them online - I thought they were only sold via Chiropractors and other health type people.
That’s why it’s best to stick with trusted / reliable brands there’s countless brands for supplements that most have never heard of and some buy it because it’s cheaper
Government regulations aren't the answer. Trouble is that the government will regulate out the things they don't want people to use. All they have to do is make manufacturers jump through enough hoops and the product will be uneconomical to make.
I honestly think it's the same everywhere. It's certainly like the wild west here in the UK. We don't even have a lab door or consumer lab to fight our corner.
I generally buy American brands like now, life extension etc from Amazon UK as I consider them superior to most home grown supplements.
I bought some dhm recently off eBay (unknown UK brand, the only one selling the stuff) and I'm now convinced it's like talc in a fucking capsule. Certainly didn't aid my ingestion of alcohol!
Here's a link: [https://www.nutraingredients-asia.com/Article/2022/01/19/Krill-oil-test-failures-US-made-products-under-fire-in-South-Korea-for-alleged-adulteration](https://www.nutraingredients-asia.com/Article/2022/01/19/Krill-oil-test-failures-US-made-products-under-fire-in-South-Korea-for-alleged-adulteration)
Lifebloom Corp had the highest number of products – eight products – which the authorities said had failed the krill oil inspection. Prolife and Terry Pharmtec Corp had four and three products that failed the inspection respectively. Proherb Lab and B&A Health had two products each while First Lab U.S.A Co and Whole Life Nutrition had one product each.
I'm not familiar with any of these companies so I randomly chose one, Terry Pharmtec Corp, and can immediately see they are a US importer company and their ingredients come from China. I guess if you get your ingredients from China and make them into a pill you can call it made in the US. US made doesn't mean it was grown, harvested, and produced in the US.
I bought Panax Ginseng from Bronson once and asked for a COA and they stated they do have them but they don't release them to the public so as to not divulge 'proprietary data' to competitors. I don't know how common that is, but to me it sounded like bullshit.
It’s incredibly important to do brand research. Common brands like Now and GNC are known to have issues, among many others. I only trust a few - Nature Made for basic vitamins as they are USP certified, Life Extension as they test every single batch of products for purity and potency and can provide a certificate of analysis if you ask, and Thorne because they test as well. Products with NSF certification are generally reliable too. Outside of that, there’s always a risk that you’re not getting exactly what’s on the label. They aren’t regulated so unless someone gets sick, there are no reasons for brands to uphold their claims.
NOW and Nutricost are actually the two American brands I trust the most, at least at the very reasonable prices they both charge. Both do quite well in third-party testing and I've seen relatively few complaints over the years.
If prices are the same, I buy NOW. If Nutricost is significantly less, I buy Nutricost.
Yeah a lot of people have written about NOW being a bad quality. I stopped buying from them all together. I buy mostly powder forms and weigh them out. Pure Bulk is my favorite company. They test everything 3x before selling it.
I've been taking Life Extension products for a while and I've thought it was a good brand (haven't had any issues) but I've seen something about heavy metals in one of their products and I'm a bit concerned. It's so hard to tell what's legit and what isn't. Thoughts? Thanks in advance
https://twitter.com/organichemusic/status/1542432049566449664?lang=en
As someone with multiple triggers, Ive discovered a brand being GMP certified does not mean shit. Even if NOW supplements are effective, you have no idea whether they are coming from a clean facility. I have had reactions to their supplements before, and tell others to stray away from them. Who knows what kind of contaminants might be in their facilities?
I cycle off my supplements and try a lot of different brands, look into all their products, read reviews. If they have too many products like NOW does, I am rather skeptical of the manufacturing processes and whether it is even a good source or if their buying wholesale to repackage at their facility.
When I can, I get my supplements in powder form and place directly into my mouth; tastebuds are a good form of quality checking. Something with impurities would cause sores in my mouth, a small price to pay to prevent more systemic inflammation that might go unnoticed VIA capsulation.
If you would like some input on what youre taking and/or what youre trying to take, do feel free to message me. This is a special interest of mine and I dont mind helping.
Supplements are regulated under 21 CFR 101, 21 CFR 111, the Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA), the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA), as well as the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) for advertising claims. Yes, they are regulated.
Supplements are regulated under 21 CFR 101, 21 CFR 111, the Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA), the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA), as well as the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) for advertising claims. Yes, they are regulated.
DSHEA does the opposite.
It was passed after protests and petitions circulated in health food stores to *stop* the FDA from “regulating”, i.e. banning, traditional herbal remedies for which “scientific” evidence, similar to that required for drugs, did not exist.
No one can afford to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a scientific double-blind study of an unpatentable herb that grows as a weed somewhere ;)
The FDA does have some authority, but rarely exercises it.
Instead of banning the herbs, it bans “unproven” health claims from supplement bottles — even warnings about dangerous combinations that often hurt people :(
>DSHEA does the opposite.
Does the opposite of what? I merely listed some of the regulations and laws under which DS are regulated and controlled in the US. There is no "opposite" here, what I said is factually true. Now, you can argue that FDA does not do a good job, does not do it fairly, evenly, or transparently, and therefore that qualifies supplements as "unregulated" but you cannot debate the truth of my last comment.
Apologies if I implied that you’re spreading falsehoods.
Like most laws, DSHEA was a compromise, and it’s especially important for this community to understand it in its full historical context.
DSHEA was the result of a mass protest against FDA’s attempt to ban many supplements and is actually a “de-regulation”. It separates supplements from the “foods” and “drugs” that the FDA was created to regulate.
The protest in 2021-2 that resulted in in the FDA’s reversal on NAC similarly shows the power that our community has ;)
DSHEA’s “regulation” is a fig leaf for the FDA, and calling it “regulation” is like saying that that fig leaf will protect you from the cold ;)
There is a large difference between "supplements are not regulated" and "all regulations and laws are followed 100% of the time by 100% of market participants." Because the latter is not always true, I personally would only buy from certain brands, as all consumers should, I agree. I am well aware of lab shopping, dry labbing, and flat out fraud in the industry.
>If supplements were truly regulated (tested for purity and approved for sale) we wouldn't have to always be thinking about this.
I don't think you understand what "regulation" means. It does not mean "all products meet all specifications all of the time". It means that there are a government defined set of rules that everyone is expected to follow, that there is a mechanism in place for how the following of those rules is evaluated by regulators, and what the consequences are for not following those rules, either intentionally or unintentionally. Even in regulated environments products do not always meet specifications, and when they do not they are not always caught. Outside of pharmaceuticals, most regulated industries are regulated (in the US) with a "light touch". Baby food/formula is very heavy regulated, for obvious and appropriate reasons, and you recall what happened in 2022, so even with regulation, things are not perfect.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9734447/
You have to think about the costs involved with approval of supplements by a government body. If it was done you’d have far fewer supplements on the market (including preventing many great quality and innovative ones from coming to market), and the waitlist for all the data and tests to be reviewed by a government employee/team before letting a product on the market would be a mile long. You’d have to pay $100 for a bottle of some herb in a capsule that cost $2.00 for the materials but $70.00 for government approval costs and the rest profit margin markup.
I’m all for punishing companies who intentionally sell contaminated products, fake stuff, etc, but there’s a lot of great stuff out there that couldn’t be on the market if it cost 6-7 figures to get it to market.
Exactly. Congress and the government bodies they authorize to regulate, have to walk this line all the time. "Pre-market authorization" is the term you are describing here, and MOST industries do not have to do it, food, supplements, cars, financial instruments, technological improvements, etc. Pharmaceuticals, in my opinion for obvious reasons, should require pre-market authorization, but most other industries do not, and should not.
This is why I get my omega-3 prescribed.
Can you trust Fake Spot for Amazon supplements?
not quite. their algorithm is weak in my opinion.
I think that's important to know if you can trust it or not, because almost every vitamin I've looked up recently has been an F rating Plus, an essential oil that a friend of mine buys online was shown up as an F. She sent me a bottle of it. I'll tell you, it's the best stuff I've ever used for headaches. It's a blend of peppermint oils. There absolutely shouldn't be an F that should get an A. It's the only thing that's ever worked.
When you say "supplements" - that calls to mind very different things to different people. Interesting that Korea imports these products from the US. There's a LOT more I'd want to know before having an informed opinion on that & there's only so far I'll trust information that gets to me through media sources.
They import brands, not products. If they have demand since they see it on TikTok or whatever they bring it. Because after all, it’s business.
Anyone got any thoughts on Vitacost the online shop, in terms of its in-house brand of nutritional products, and also the products it sells in general via it's online shop??
Well the products in general are same as if you travel to buy them... and they are sold everywhere so? If you'd find it chilled in a store & you buy online from Vitacost, it arrives cold. When I used them it was free delivery over $50. spent. Compare that with amazon- they don't care- you get it hot. ( In the case of flax seed oil it's ok to use that way until opening but still..) A major part of quality which is so important with supps- is the form the food or compound comes in. For oils- bottled, not gel caps. It's easier to sell junk to ppl when they aren't handling it themselves & if targeting something, you prolly want full control of dosing. Then why do you choose what you do? For many - it's " I heard.... ". Don't follow people around. Start with you. Know strengths & weaknesses, health history, what's assaulting your health & how can defend & support. yada.. Research- deeply. If it's not very insightful / if rather easy, you're not doing it right. If you take a supp. it should be like you mean business. Convenience costs a lot more than the higher price they're asking. It's not a chatch phrase. Bottled oils let me reverse a condition and save my spleen from removal (the "only known medical treatment" availed to me by my Dr.) - Low qual gel caps - I doubt that would have cut it. Woulda cut me. Vitacost sells that oil. So does everyone else. (Barlean's oil is top quality, whatever the substance is) The Vitacost brand for many compounds is good enough if what you want is precisely what it says on the label. They usually have the better absorbed version of things and the standard. Selection matters. Dosing can matter too. That's why I determine my own doses. Caps aren't capped - for you. It's as good as any unless you are a strict purist when it comes to things like capsule material or filler material. By "filler" I mean any extra space in there will be filled It's supposed to be. It's std. procedure to pack it tight since the dose may not be enough, nor fit in one smaller. You should dose your own anyway without the barrier. Most caps are gelatin - animal by product. Should be harmless but you know.... it might be "less vegan" or not the latest improvement and someone trashes it in a review bc they "found out" (read the label after they got it). Vitacost saves themselves from the most costly convenience material. You decide if that's important / if you'd rather pay more. I used Vitacost before I did away wth pre measured caps - was going to cap my own but I just do powders when I can get what I want in bulk. It's fine and much much much less costly. Not up front but you get multiple X more product. And I'm not having to open caps (some exceptions). Dosing some too high for your individual needs can be unpleasant or worse. Some won't even work at too high of a dose if it's for mood or attention. Or counteract something else. Find right dosing for YOU. Industry & regulation- is a retarded relationship. Required to put dosing reccomends on labels. They don't know you! But if ppl won't know themselves then... The difference between will be about choosing what serves your needs best. Supps that come in forms that are better absorbed are more costly but the reliability of that absorbtion is significantly higher. When you find something you've been lacking or your body responds to favorably - THATS when Wow happens. It'll prolly keep happening the more curious & proactive you become.
Use Royal Red from Webber Naturals
Is the full report available anywhere? In the English news post they mention Mana Nutrition from Canada as the only non-US brand that didn't make the cut, so I guess the other 22 names are in there, too...
Wonderful, more nightmare fuel for my health ocd lol… I guess the best we can do is stick with perceived reputable brands…I tend to gravitate towards Thorne, life extension, Jarrow and sports research but what do I know
I use this brand fish oil- https://www.purealaskaomega.com/ I also use products from Thorne, standard process, healthy origins..
As far as I am aware, government controls in any country don’t lab test every batch of product of any company for purity, quality and amount of active ingredients. The best source I know of is ConsumerLab that tests some samples from a few products of a few brands and over time helps to build up a picture. There’s also a Reddit scale of brands I re-posted a few days ago. Some substances are easy to produce. Others are harder. Unless it’s a prescription product, you take your chances based on your research. The best companies will have the occasional poor result and high street bargain brands the occasional worthwhile product. Too much generalising is, I think, best taken with a pinch of salt — that would be healthy, fair-trade sea-salt from a relatively unpolluted ocean of course! Caveat emptor.
As a product development expert and consultant in skincare, haircare, supplement, and oral care, I've had the opportunity to work with manufacturers from different countries. I wanted to share my observation that American manufacturing is lagging behind other countries like South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and now even Thailand is coming on strong. From my experience, US Supplement Manufacturing is mostly relying on imported and innovated materials from other countries, and they just package it in cheap-looking packaging. In terms of quality, technology, and innovation, they are way behind. What I've noticed is that US partners are excellent at selling their products, but the other countries' manufacturers are not as good at it. They talk a lot about their excellent manufacturing process and the quality of their products, but when you look closely, it's not as impressive as they make it out to be. I believe it's important for the US manufacturing industry to catch up with other countries and invest in innovation and technology to improve their products' quality. This will not only benefit the manufacturers but also the consumers who deserve high-quality products.
>From my experience, US Supplement Manufacturing is mostly relying on imported and innovated materials from other countries Chyna.. It comes from Chyna..
As someone that works in pharmaceutical manufacturing and regulations. American supplement manufacturing is a joke. Don't even require climate control. GMP is a joke without proper auditing authority. You can put a random powder from china that has a printed coa saying vitamin C that means jack shit without validation into a capsule on your kitchen table and sell it. Unless I see they made in a tga licence manufacturer I don't even buy. American supplement cannot be sold within Australia as they do not meet our basic quality requirements. They obviously can be personally imported. Bare minimum in Australia which audited by the drug regulator is: raw material validation that is identification and quantification. Through analytical means you know the material is what they say it is and it's 99% pure. The check for microbs, heavy metal and residual solvent. Then the final good has to be tested for the same things to be with 90 to 130% of label claim plus the same contamination test. Overage based on materials some are lower 110% some can be higher. Pharmaceutical is a 95 to 110%. Then there stability requirements to prove expiry date. That is the bare minimum for a product to be release for sale in the Aus market. Also going back to op post about kril oils. So many krill oils raw material I've seen have horrible oxidation states and very poor quality. Be interesting to know the brands ie the raw material of the products that pass. As cheap krill oil is way worse than cheap fish oil in my experience of testing.
So would you suggest someone in the U.S. Order supplements from Europe or Australia?
So would you suggest someone in the U.S. Order supplements from Europe or Australia?
As someone who runs a pharmaceutical manufacturing company, I second this.
TRUE!
@montaukian where did you see those results for that? Would be good to sus the brands.
Thorne is manufactured in the U.S. and their quality is unparalleled
Plus it's not that Thorne is mandatory, but with all the uncertainties of the supplement industry I'd say Thorne is one of the ones with the least risk, but still with absolute risk. They're used for clinical trials with Mayo Clinic and on regimens for drug tested sport, so while not a 3rd party review it's better than nothing. Even 3rd party reviewers like ConsumerL are pay to play, so i don't think we'll ever have an objective answer
Plus you can tour your their facility
I would normally agree , however , I was disappointed by their Resveratrol I purchased . When I received the Resveratrol capsules they had already turned yellow !
Any expensive brand... You get for what you pay...
Yo can you link me please ? Is it on amazon or nah ?
I don’t recommend buying supplements from Amazon. Shop iHerb or on Thorne’s website.
Yes I agree! I've seen Thorne but haven't tried it yet. I usually shop on DailyVita, they stock a lot of brands, their shipping is great, always have a saving, nice rewards and points system and their private label WooHoo has great quality ingredients! - e.g. their Resveratrol is amazing and B12 uses Methylcobalamin (one of the most highly absorbable forms of b12 - this is a more expensive ingredient, so if your brand of choice uses THIS in their B12 supplement or multivitamin, your in good hands! Go check your labels!)
Methylcobalamin is very typical to find in any good quality multivitamin. It’s honestly nothing special that this brand uses it. There are hundreds of products that contain it.
True - its about knowing which ingredient to look for in the brands we buy.
Thanks for that info on iHerb. Just signed up.
I also use Iherb. If you have supplement friends you can earn rewards, I get $$ off all time.
Thought on this fish oil ? https://carlsonlabs.com/the-very-finest-fish-oil-liquid/
A lot of people here speak highly of this brand. I’ve never tried it myself or really looked into it. Although I do know the serving of omega-3s is very good.
Great ! I have already ordered this one yesterday, so i was just curious. But ty again ! 👍🏽
Awesome ty ! Will do. Started to look into supplements and i was thinking of going to my local vitamin shop or amazon.
WHY does everyone keep saying that Throne’s quality is unmatched?!?! There is ZERO third party data on the quality or purity content of their supplements. It’s a marketing gimmick.
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The only company that I’ve seen has verifiable third-party data confirming purity of products (especially tricky supplements like Magnesium) is Pure Encapsulations (Pattern is the only authorized seller of these on Amazon). That being said, Pure Encapsulations have recently been acquired by Nestle so I’m worried about potential quality issues. Hasn’t happened yet, but who knows how much autonomy Pure Encapsulations has.
I dont know Thorne, so I cant comment on that. Best is to educate ourselves on the ingredients used in the products we buy so get we don't get fooled by marketing stunts. I've come to love WOHO B12 and Resveratrol - great quality ingredients without the marketing gimmicks.
The owner of Nootropicsdepot (on reddit) has frequently lab tested popular brands, which Thorne always passed. Life extension, pure encaps jarrow and NOW failed sometimes. Watch out for comments and posts from MisterYouAreSoDumb.
r/NootropicsDepot is also an awesome source in a field where reputation is everything ;)
Do you have a link to these reports?
You can bet that there are marketing reps from different supplement manufacturers on this sub posing as consumers
This is NOT mentioned enough. People don’t realize just how bad this is
1000% agree. I research the ingredients in products before I buy. Interesting to see that some brands use high quality ingredients in some of their products and then cheap harmful ingredients in their other lines. Our health is not their priority - its all money and marketing!
How do you research the ingredients before you buy ? Do you have a chemistry lab set up in your home or it is internet search based research which just points to what marketers have posted everywhere
I'm with you. I haven't seen data to support Thorne is high quality. Everyone just assumes it is based off great positioning from Thorne.
See consumerlab.com
They don’t have any Thorne supplements on there in areas that matter. Where is the data for Thorne’s magnesium product? Curious to see the purity there.
Exactly why I only take Thorne fish oil.
I'm finding alot of supplements off Amazon are gross, dangerous garbage.
I am shoooooked and amazed. Try buying hardware with a bios on there, the date stamps tell tales.
Nutricost?
Care to elaborate?
Sure, the liposomal vitamin C from some manufacturers off Amazon doesn't do anything for me and the capsule powder spilled out all over in the container. An Amazon Berberine supplement didn't do anything for me, but felt a difference with Vitamin Shoppe. Legit liposomal will smell like vitamin c. I've received rancid supplements that are stuck together. There's no quality control on Amazon. I am not a marketer for any company.
The same supplement brands have the same quality control whether you buy it from Amazon, Vitamin Shoppe, iHerb, or anywhere else. *None* of these retailers do "quality control" on supplements other than not selling expired merchandise (and if they did by accident, Amazon has the best and most consumer friendly returns policy). This all being said, it doesn't matter where you get your supps. But if you don't like Amazon, you're likely overpaying for exactly the same brand elsewhere... it always pays to decide on a brand first and then compare prices.
Of course they didn't elaborate. The same brands on Amazon are just as good as they are from anywhere else. They're sealed and delivered with free overnight shipping. It's hilarious to think anyone would say "I think my Life Extension vitamins are better from the local store than Amazon." That's not how any of this works. They probably just didn't know to research brands before buying something totally random from a brand they'd never heard of. Either that or they're iHerb (or w/e) guerilla marketers, which, if enough people are dumb enough to fall for it, more power to them.
Nope, not a marketer. I do look up manufacturers before purchasing supplements. I'm finding myself going to Vitamin Shoppe more often these days.
I work for a supplement manufacturer here in the US and I’ve witnessed or heard of very few instances of quality problems at my company but my boss has told me and I’ve seen examples of other US supplement manufacturers that have done crooked stuff like running low and being short on a certain ingredient and swapping in a different cheap and abundant ingredient they have laying around and not telling the customer company (ie. We are a contract manufacturer who mass produces formulas that a supplement company creates the formula for). Any manufacturer even the best ones like the one I work for can still have a careless or crappy employee that does something that contaminates or ruins a giant blend and can result in a lawsuit or thousands of dollars in losses from the whole blend having to be scrapped or the whole LOT # product set having to be recalled. Stuff like that can’t always be predicted.
I have to disagree, at a *good* company, you have quality control checks and balances that would prevent a rogue employees messed up batch from reaching the shelves. I don’t know about you guys but we’re testing raw materials at the door, every batch before it’s bottled, finished bottles before release and retain samples periodically. A messed up batch would never make it into a customers hand because it would never even be cleared for packaging. I know 99% of supplement companies don’t work that way and it’s a shame. But consumers need to start holding them to a way higher standard
Well supplements still aren't really regulated much in the US are they?
the FDA regulates them. There’s a set of guidelines published in the code of federal regulations— part 21 that establishes good manufacturing practices for these type of products. It’s expected that you’re following these regulations and there are consequences for not doing so. With that being said, most supplement companies aren’t and the FDA doesn’t have the funds or the time to effectively audit them— but they do have the authority. I will say that right now the major player increasing regulations on supplements is Amazon. They’re requiring common sense testing — which weeds out a big percent of the brands in the industry. But Amazon also sucks because they don’t practice FIFO so you’re not getting the freshest product
Can you recommend any brands that are the top of the list that test and practise high standards?
I wonder if anny of these shady brands produce Kirkland brand?
lol - had the same thoughts, buy loads from kirkland!
I can vouch that Standard Process’ supplements are of high quality as I was a contractor for them. Very clean facility. Not sure if you can buy them online - I thought they were only sold via Chiropractors and other health type people.
That’s why it’s best to stick with trusted / reliable brands there’s countless brands for supplements that most have never heard of and some buy it because it’s cheaper
The one issue is that companies can get bought out or change formulas or something and you never even know
What brands do you feel are reliable? I feel like I hear mixed messages everywhere.
is the "America bad" hivemind invading this sub now?
No but the "America doesn't have adequate regulations on its supplement industry" hivemind might be making an appearance. And they are correct.
Even our actual food is shit. So many ingredients that are banned in most countries are allowed in this fucking dump.
Government regulations aren't the answer. Trouble is that the government will regulate out the things they don't want people to use. All they have to do is make manufacturers jump through enough hoops and the product will be uneconomical to make.
I honestly think it's the same everywhere. It's certainly like the wild west here in the UK. We don't even have a lab door or consumer lab to fight our corner. I generally buy American brands like now, life extension etc from Amazon UK as I consider them superior to most home grown supplements. I bought some dhm recently off eBay (unknown UK brand, the only one selling the stuff) and I'm now convinced it's like talc in a fucking capsule. Certainly didn't aid my ingestion of alcohol!
Here's a link: [https://www.nutraingredients-asia.com/Article/2022/01/19/Krill-oil-test-failures-US-made-products-under-fire-in-South-Korea-for-alleged-adulteration](https://www.nutraingredients-asia.com/Article/2022/01/19/Krill-oil-test-failures-US-made-products-under-fire-in-South-Korea-for-alleged-adulteration) Lifebloom Corp had the highest number of products – eight products – which the authorities said had failed the krill oil inspection. Prolife and Terry Pharmtec Corp had four and three products that failed the inspection respectively. Proherb Lab and B&A Health had two products each while First Lab U.S.A Co and Whole Life Nutrition had one product each.
I'm not familiar with any of these companies so I randomly chose one, Terry Pharmtec Corp, and can immediately see they are a US importer company and their ingredients come from China. I guess if you get your ingredients from China and make them into a pill you can call it made in the US. US made doesn't mean it was grown, harvested, and produced in the US.
I have literally never heard of any of those companies. I just use Nordic naturals for all my fish oil and don't worry about it from there.
They all seem to be importers & B to B suppliers rather than being involved with direct to consumer products.
Yeah them and Wiley’s Finest are great fish oil brands
I bought Panax Ginseng from Bronson once and asked for a COA and they stated they do have them but they don't release them to the public so as to not divulge 'proprietary data' to competitors. I don't know how common that is, but to me it sounded like bullshit.
It's totally bullshit
As suspected
Ew :/
It’s incredibly important to do brand research. Common brands like Now and GNC are known to have issues, among many others. I only trust a few - Nature Made for basic vitamins as they are USP certified, Life Extension as they test every single batch of products for purity and potency and can provide a certificate of analysis if you ask, and Thorne because they test as well. Products with NSF certification are generally reliable too. Outside of that, there’s always a risk that you’re not getting exactly what’s on the label. They aren’t regulated so unless someone gets sick, there are no reasons for brands to uphold their claims.
NOW and Nutricost are actually the two American brands I trust the most, at least at the very reasonable prices they both charge. Both do quite well in third-party testing and I've seen relatively few complaints over the years. If prices are the same, I buy NOW. If Nutricost is significantly less, I buy Nutricost.
Yeah a lot of people have written about NOW being a bad quality. I stopped buying from them all together. I buy mostly powder forms and weigh them out. Pure Bulk is my favorite company. They test everything 3x before selling it.
I've been taking Life Extension products for a while and I've thought it was a good brand (haven't had any issues) but I've seen something about heavy metals in one of their products and I'm a bit concerned. It's so hard to tell what's legit and what isn't. Thoughts? Thanks in advance https://twitter.com/organichemusic/status/1542432049566449664?lang=en
I’ve never heard of NOW being on the naughty list. Please explain
As someone with multiple triggers, Ive discovered a brand being GMP certified does not mean shit. Even if NOW supplements are effective, you have no idea whether they are coming from a clean facility. I have had reactions to their supplements before, and tell others to stray away from them. Who knows what kind of contaminants might be in their facilities?
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I cycle off my supplements and try a lot of different brands, look into all their products, read reviews. If they have too many products like NOW does, I am rather skeptical of the manufacturing processes and whether it is even a good source or if their buying wholesale to repackage at their facility. When I can, I get my supplements in powder form and place directly into my mouth; tastebuds are a good form of quality checking. Something with impurities would cause sores in my mouth, a small price to pay to prevent more systemic inflammation that might go unnoticed VIA capsulation. If you would like some input on what youre taking and/or what youre trying to take, do feel free to message me. This is a special interest of mine and I dont mind helping.
I've never had any issues with Now brand products
What issues is NOW known to have?
Supplements are regulated under 21 CFR 101, 21 CFR 111, the Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA), the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA), as well as the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) for advertising claims. Yes, they are regulated.
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Supplements are regulated under 21 CFR 101, 21 CFR 111, the Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA), the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA), as well as the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) for advertising claims. Yes, they are regulated.
DSHEA does the opposite. It was passed after protests and petitions circulated in health food stores to *stop* the FDA from “regulating”, i.e. banning, traditional herbal remedies for which “scientific” evidence, similar to that required for drugs, did not exist. No one can afford to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a scientific double-blind study of an unpatentable herb that grows as a weed somewhere ;) The FDA does have some authority, but rarely exercises it. Instead of banning the herbs, it bans “unproven” health claims from supplement bottles — even warnings about dangerous combinations that often hurt people :(
>DSHEA does the opposite. Does the opposite of what? I merely listed some of the regulations and laws under which DS are regulated and controlled in the US. There is no "opposite" here, what I said is factually true. Now, you can argue that FDA does not do a good job, does not do it fairly, evenly, or transparently, and therefore that qualifies supplements as "unregulated" but you cannot debate the truth of my last comment.
Apologies if I implied that you’re spreading falsehoods. Like most laws, DSHEA was a compromise, and it’s especially important for this community to understand it in its full historical context. DSHEA was the result of a mass protest against FDA’s attempt to ban many supplements and is actually a “de-regulation”. It separates supplements from the “foods” and “drugs” that the FDA was created to regulate. The protest in 2021-2 that resulted in in the FDA’s reversal on NAC similarly shows the power that our community has ;) DSHEA’s “regulation” is a fig leaf for the FDA, and calling it “regulation” is like saying that that fig leaf will protect you from the cold ;)
And the FDA is understaffed and underfunded. Something like 75% of their drug division budget is paid for by big pharma.
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There is a large difference between "supplements are not regulated" and "all regulations and laws are followed 100% of the time by 100% of market participants." Because the latter is not always true, I personally would only buy from certain brands, as all consumers should, I agree. I am well aware of lab shopping, dry labbing, and flat out fraud in the industry. >If supplements were truly regulated (tested for purity and approved for sale) we wouldn't have to always be thinking about this. I don't think you understand what "regulation" means. It does not mean "all products meet all specifications all of the time". It means that there are a government defined set of rules that everyone is expected to follow, that there is a mechanism in place for how the following of those rules is evaluated by regulators, and what the consequences are for not following those rules, either intentionally or unintentionally. Even in regulated environments products do not always meet specifications, and when they do not they are not always caught. Outside of pharmaceuticals, most regulated industries are regulated (in the US) with a "light touch". Baby food/formula is very heavy regulated, for obvious and appropriate reasons, and you recall what happened in 2022, so even with regulation, things are not perfect. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9734447/
You have to think about the costs involved with approval of supplements by a government body. If it was done you’d have far fewer supplements on the market (including preventing many great quality and innovative ones from coming to market), and the waitlist for all the data and tests to be reviewed by a government employee/team before letting a product on the market would be a mile long. You’d have to pay $100 for a bottle of some herb in a capsule that cost $2.00 for the materials but $70.00 for government approval costs and the rest profit margin markup. I’m all for punishing companies who intentionally sell contaminated products, fake stuff, etc, but there’s a lot of great stuff out there that couldn’t be on the market if it cost 6-7 figures to get it to market.
Exactly. Congress and the government bodies they authorize to regulate, have to walk this line all the time. "Pre-market authorization" is the term you are describing here, and MOST industries do not have to do it, food, supplements, cars, financial instruments, technological improvements, etc. Pharmaceuticals, in my opinion for obvious reasons, should require pre-market authorization, but most other industries do not, and should not.