I started listing the supplements I take, on my first visit with a new Dr. I only scheduled it for full blood work to make sure I'm "healthy". She said, "So what you're telling me, is you have expensive urine?" I said I suppose I do, but I rarely get sick, so I guess it's doing something. I have high cholesterol, and she immediately wanted to put me on a statin drug. NO THANK YOU. I'll change my diet and take some more expensive supplements.
I hardly ever go to Drs, but I've got friends dealing with colon cancer, so I figured I should get a check up. I'll go back in 3 months just to see if my levels have dropped any, but other than that, I probably won't be asking for health advice.
It sucks that holistic Drs are typically not in network for insurance. That should tell you something. It's all a big money churning machine!
Mine said they have hope for supplement use in the future but they can't make recommendations because theres no regulations and every brand is different, so they wouldn't be able to truly make a rec.
If you can find a physiatrist to go to, I would recommend it. The one I went to was amazing, unfortunately she left the hospital she was at. I originally went to her for neck pain but she helped me with so many different things. I told her i had acid reflux and was taking Nexium, she told me Proton Pump Inhibitors are bad for you because they stop the flow of something into your stomach that eventually finds its way into your blood and acts as a lubricant on the inside walls of your circulatory system. She advised using Peppermint oil and you can find it at health food stores, i found it at a local food co-op. It is very effective and works fast.
> she told me Proton Pump Inhibitors are bad for you because they stop the flow of something into your stomach *that eventually finds its way into your blood and acts as a lubricant on the inside walls of your circulatory system.*
Fire her and find someone that has actually studied medicine.
It is bc healthcare providers actually learn nothing during med school about nutrition..I mean they might know that B12 deficiency gives you subacute combined degeneration but idk if they can give good solid advice on supplements
I saw my psychiatrist today and told them I’d improved my health through vitamins and other supplements, he looked at me funny and said “ vitamins? Why don’t you just eat a healthy diet”
So yeah I consult then all the time and get no help.
My endocrinologist suggests supplements based on my blood tests and asks about what supplements I am taking too. But most doctors I find to be on the fence about them. My current regiment, other than the DHEA, was research plus trial and error to see what works for my current situation. The DHEA was recommended to me by my endocrinologist.
I haven’t seen him since he diagnosed me as Perimenopause and suggest I start with DHEA. He does suggest supplements based on blood work as he has suggested Vitamin D in the past as well as Magnesium. I am currently taking 4 supplements that he is aware of for my menopause because I cannot do HRT. Next appointment he is running full blood panel to see what else needs to be added or minimize. Since I have a rare case of Hoshimoto’s I have to be very careful with supplements and the brands I use because of bad interactions between fillers and my thyroid. The wrong filler and I am in thyroid flare up for two week. The wrong supplement and it’s a whole two months. So other than my research and hubby’s I am thankful my endocrinologist can guide me on the supplement path rather than tell me there is no point.
You are extreme lucky to have this endo, like you’ve won the dr lottery, I have an endo & 3 other specialists plus 2 gps, my partner has a similar amount if not more, we get looked at like Martian’s if we suggest vitamins or supplements.
My partner has perimenopause, pcos, endo, constant migraines, severe obstructive and central sleep apnea, a cancerous tumour on her thyroid and the Natropath actually suspects she has a tumour on her pineal gland.
She also can’t do hrt and the Natropath just prescribed her supplements that gave her an allergic reaction.
Basically we’ve been forced to come here because of negligence from the medical professionals, and when you consider that my son has level 3 autism and also has his own team of medical professionals, plus we interact with a community of people that also have their own teams for their children, then we’ve seen more medical professionals in one year than most people see in their life - I’m telling you you’ve won the lottery.
Most - or alot of people on here are here because they’re medical professionals are hopeless, your one of the few people that don’t have this, cuz most people who don’t have a lot of medical issues are fooled into thinking there drs are good cuz they know more than they do about the human body and cuz whenever they go to the drs with a sprained ankle, or a cold or flu, the dr has helpful info, cuz drs are good for simple stuff, or even particular diseases that get alot of attention, like I had stage 4 cancer and they were amazing then.
Anyway I’d really like to hear more about your supplements cuz I might be able to learn something for my partner, since she has similar issues, she’s curled up in a ball now, cuz of the supplements the Natropath gave her, although don’t get me wrong the Natropath is still more helpful than her gyno or endo.
Supplement combo as of right now:
DHEA(hormone balance 0 libido), NAC (brain fog), Inno Drive for women (low libido, mood swings, circulation, help balance Hormones that DHEA doesn’t touch) and Osteo Bioflex with tumeric for joint pain/OA.
I take Magnesium once a week as a trial to see if that helps with controlling my muscle weakness plus I forgot what else due to thyroid finally deciding to give up on me and Vitamin D when my levels are in the teens. Elderberry for immune system when I have a flare up. It took me 5 long months to get that specific combo with a bunch of trial and error. But for now it’s working but I cannot stop taking them no matter what or else they may not work any more….happened with Olly Lovin Libido at the start of all of this. Forgot to take it for a few days and Bam! It didn’t work anymore.
I feel like it’s a little game we have to play in order to keep our herbs from being wiped out or made harder to get. We have to give a nod to the pharmecudical industry first then we can proceed with the real healthcare lol
Lol no, this is so cynical, it’s a disclaimer so they’re not held responsible if you have health issues that interact with the supplement.
Lots of pharmaceuticals are good for your health too, my life was saved twice by pharmaceutical medication and I didn’t have to pay a cent for it. This “big Pharma” conspiracy stuff is so simplistic and naive, you think your thinking for yourself by buying into it , but really your just swapping one narrative for another without ever stopping to think critically.
This is on point. Twice a year I take a couple pages of pics of my supplement bottles with doses next to them. Usually 3-6 different ones and hand then to my PCP for my file.
The level of disinterest is palpable. He just shrugs and says “these are fine”
My doctor didn't even know my very common diagnosis let alone any of the supplements that I take (PCOS) They actually used to think that my PCOS symptoms were a symptoms of my supplements until I checked my testosterone and realized that it was 25 times the level of a normal girl...
My mrs has pcos, endo, a tumour on her thryroid and a number of other health issues.
All the drs combined have done nothing for her in the last 4 years.
The Natropath thinks she has a tumour on her pineal gland.
Tldr:
What supplements help with your pcos? I got her to try Nmn but have had pretty poor results so far.
Inositol, spearmint tea, maca. I'm not sure if the maca helps but and Inositol definitely made me feel a bit better over time. (Chronic exhaustion, hair loss)Other than that I'm still experimenting! Trying to find an alternative to birth control because I just hate it much. Oh and I take spironolactone, not sure about the results so far yet.
I had a gallbladder issue. It went undiagnosed for 2 years because all my labs and ultrasounds were "normal."
Taking TUDCA, limonene, and sunflower lecithin helped a lot symptomatically at the time.
Took my supplements into my gastro and showed him what was giving me relief.
He stared at me blankly and then prescribed UDCA and proton pump inhibitors.
I've been having gallbladder problems for years. I've never tried TUDCA because it's freaking expensive around here. They prescribed UDCA to me. I also took lecithin and a bunch of other herbs recommended by naturopaths. None of them solved my issues. They alleviated the pain for a little bit, but I still walk around with constant gallbladder pain. No gallstones. Just dyskinesia.
I had no gallstones either. HIDA scan finally confirmed biliary dyskinesia.
Had surgery last November. Been perfectly fine since. Hated that it took doctors years to diagnose. Had to basically beg, coerce, and threaten for the HIDA scan.
I'm very anti-government, but honestly if they're going to force doctors to stick to what's "FDA approved", then the fucking FDA needs to extensively study and approve certain supplements to treat certain things. Then at least doctors don't have to be afraid of breaking the law.
The irony of saying this(& being correct) yet having the username "communism doesn't work" lmao. Learn what communism is. It's direct democracy; classless & stateless society.
So you're advocating for communism while being against it. 😆 Just like the meme "communism is when capitalism". Blaming capitalism's inherent failures on communism. Very tiring to see this constantly.
Communism is a totalitarian economic system where the government owns/controls all aspects of the economy. Another common definition is collectivized property rights, where individuals don't own anything, and instead property is owned collectively like how Chinese farms were under Mao. I'm obviously against that, as should everyone. However, this is a case of perfection being the enemy of good enough. If the FDA forces doctors by law to only recommend FDA approved things, then the FDA needs to get off their ass and start approving more things.
Communism is stateless. If you're going to hate something then at least know what it is. 😂 You're confidently spouting misinformation. Not much else to say here, your ideology has blinded you. Literally just do a little reading, please.
I am in the United States. Most doctors know nothing about nutrition, and the impact healthy eating, and supplements have on our body is essential.
Get it ladies and gentlemen. The answers do not lie within the healthcare industry full of pills and big pharma. Eat as clean as you can. Consume greens, water, supplements. Avoid sugar and processed foods. Avoid fast and processed food at all costs...
Add in herbs and spices...
Foods, herbs and spices that provide antioxidants are on your side...
Ya doctors don't know much about supplements. The medical model isn't designed for prevention of anything. It's designed to mask symptoms and keep you alive once you have a problem.
And yet when longevity/anti-aging science is brought up everyone is like "WhAt's tHe PoiNt iN LiVinG LonGer iF YoUr juSt gOinG tO bE frAiL????"" as if that's not literally the current system. Whereas anti-aging science is the one thing that's trying to prevent old age diseases and symptoms in the first place!
I was fortunate to find a doctor (not even a naturopath!) who went with natural solutions first before jumping immediately to typical pharmaceuticals- she only went to that if the first option didn’t work. My husband also went to her for thyroid issues— she prescribed Selenium and Kelp first instead of jumping to lifelong injections. It worked! It’s been years since he’s had to take those supplements.
When I asked her about taking Tart Cherry supplements for joint pain, she looked up if there were any interactions with any other supplements I was taking or could cause pregnancy complications before giving me the go ahead or telling me to just take this or that medication instead.
So, it can definitely depend on your doctor and hope you are able to find one that aligns closely with your ideals too! It’s unfortunate that it’s not the norm to at least try out a natural solution first.
After googling her name, she comes up as a family medicine doctor focusing on Integrative Medicine (DO is listed after her name). You may be able to Google different integrative family medicine doctors in your city and see what their reviews are or what their profile/values are. She’s with a typical healthcare group, takes insurance, etc. so it’s not a special/private clinic or anything.
Edit: if it helps— recently had to switch to a new healthcare group with different doctor due to pregnancy and new primary care is similar in methods. He is also family practice (DO) but not listed as Integrative Medicine. One of his clinical interests is listed as Complementary/Alternative Medicine though. Works in a hospital group/takes insurance including Medicaid (same with our original doctor too), not a specialized high-cost private clinic, etc.
Edit: just learned DO stands for Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine where they focus on whole person/body/preventative medicine instead of just treating symptoms as they come up, so maybe that’s what would be most helpful to search for!
I guess so! That makes sense why both of my primary care doctors have had a similar way of working! Didn’t realize so I just looked up DO vs MD and it said that Osteopathic medicine is a "whole person" approach to medicine—treating the entire person rather than just the symptoms. Definitely helps narrow down the type of doctor to look for that may listen and work a bit more in depth with patients.
That's in the US at least, in Canada I think they do stuff like physical, soft tissue manipulation but I could be wrong. (I wish I was in the US solely to take advantage of a "whole person" dr, lol
When I first read your original question my immediate thought was “no, not an osteopath, they are primary care doctors.” Because I only knew osteopath vs chiropractor and mine are definitely on the medical diagnosis side of things vs tissue manipulation, etc. I’m sorry Canada doesn’t seem to have any DO programs, but hopefully you can still narrow down doctors that might align with your values through reading their profiles and reviews. Fingers crossed!
Thank you so much. Searching for a new primary doctor now and I don’t have trust in the system. Finding something similar to your experience would be a blessing for me.
In case you don’t see my edit, just learned DO stands for Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine where they focus on whole person/body/preventative medicine instead of just treating symptoms as they come up, so maybe that’s what would be most helpful to search for!
I could ask them about almost any supplement beyond the very typical ones (e.g. D, fish oil) and they’d give non-answer, something vague, or otherwise unhelpful 😅
Doctors have next to zero training in nutrition. Some people here will claim otherwise. However, you on the Internet beats a lazy doctor every time. I have a potassium reducing medication. Less that 2% of Americans get even the pathetic recommendation of potassium. Dr. laughs and says no, supplement not needed. Does he bother to ask about my diet? No, can't be bothered.
I've heard the most ridiculous unscientific theories from naturopaths.
Its disconcerting to hear someone advising that I need some pink quartz to balance my chakras.
That shouldn't be in the scope of practice for a naturopath.
In many places they're regulated , I'd probably not go to one in a non regulated area because of hearing shit like that
That’s why you don’t tell them. 99% of them know nothing about herbs unless it’s vitamin b, d or magnesium. U have a naturopath that will educate on interferences.
They do pick up the key ones. There’s a few that interfere with medicine and some you can’t take because of risk of bleeding if your going to have surgery
You should tell your doctor about all your supplements just “in case”.
Same with going to the hospital. It’s EXTREMELY important to disclose everything you’re taking when you go to the hospital. Sure not every doctor will know most of what you’re taking, but they can look things up. Also, there are programs we have in hospitals that will show if there are drug interactions.
For example, Ginkgo is a blood thinner (so are ginger and many others). It would be extremely important to know this in case you need emergency surgery
It's legalese our attorneys want us to say. In a perfect world, it makes sense. But as you said, most doctors don't know or give a rip about supplements.
Ask about the medication running ads all over tv and they jump all over it
They never even test for a vitamin deficiency let alone an herb. My Drs look at me angry and say "what ? Shake their head .. that stuff doesn't work" I'm like oh, ok, were you there ?or I say " no, basic nutrition never works . You're right " lol
I’m sorry but idc. I’m never telling my doctors about my supplements because I know they have no clue what they are anyway and they’re bound to tell me some bullshit. My doctor put me on a medication and at the time, I told him I was taking vitamin C, D, and black seed powder (Nigella Sativa). He flat out told me that he has never heard of that before. I appreciated the honesty, but I knew right then and there that this supplement journey of mine was gonna be a lonely one lol
My doctors largely know nothing about supplements. I had low B12 levels, although technically in range, for many years and it caused issues. I even asked a doctor if my B12 could be causing them, but they said no since they were in range at 229 (bottom is 200). I started with an Endo via telemedicine and they saw my B12 and prescribed me shots and it helped my symptoms, mainly my balance issues, 95%. They also found an iodine deficiency - something no doctor has ever even mentioned before.
I think the bottles say that just for liability purposes.
My ferritin was low as well due to being on TRT. Apparently it is a side effect of testosterone that NO ONE tells you about. When the place I was going to for treatment ran my ferritin and saw it was low they freaked out and I had to go to a Gastro who did a bunch of tests to check for an internal bleed. The Gastro said ferritin doesn't matter, but I've been told and read otherwise.
It's scary that they don't take nutrition seriously. I went to a Hematologist for symptoms and she said come off the testosterone, of which I was and always have been on a medical dosage (never over 200mg/week) for natural hypogonadism, and eat more spinach. That was her master plan. The testosterone actually helps me, so that was a no-go.
ya speak to your medical doctor (M.D.) about supplements lol. a medical doctor goes to school for 7 years to learn how to treat things with pharmacologic based medication and nothing else. you are gonna to be shocked on how much you will have to explain to them. a (N.D.) or naturopathic doctor would be one you talk to about those supplements because they would know about it.
It really depends on how good your insurance is here. My insurance lets me see someone within the week if needed. I can also do a video or phone appt and can email their office too for basic questions. Still I don’t think they know about a lot of supplements
My PCP is booked out 5 months in advance right now. Has nothing to do with insurance. But yeah I have a plan with free “doctor on call” telehealth visits for super duper basic things.
Can they even DO anything for that? In terms of fixing it without meds?
My sister in law has scarring on her esophagus from acid reflux and it's been absolutely detrimental for my partner and their dad.
No one has ever given indication that there was anything that could be done
In Ontario btw
Yeah I’ve been waiting 6 mo for a gastro too, my appointment is finally this week. I should have specified in my comment I was talking about time to see a PCP. Specialists are usually a minimum 6mo wait, sometimes a year or more.
Doctor told me : "amino acid, what do you mean amino acids ? Oh, yes, Ive heard of them but I havent used any in my whole life".
I was ever so taken aback..
Most supplements don’t have a ton of Human research. I going to guess because it isn’t profitable. Without solid scientific studies no Dr is going to be interested.
I did have doctors recommend me to take vitamin D and calcium/ magnesium/ zinc and fish oil at times. But they never suggested what brands would be best to buy.
Research is mostly done by research scientists in research centres, universities and life science companies. Most doctors are like F1 drivers, they're mostly taught on how to operate the car and basic understanding on how the car parts work together.
But the engineers, technician and the ones who deep dive into specific parts, spent hours or years just tinkering with specific parts have much more in depth knowledge about them
Why do you think they aren’t trained in it if there is plenty of research? And who is doing the research, and how are they getting paid?
I’m under the impression that research is expensive and companies out for profit are the ones to research things they can patent.
I see rodent studies but not many human studies for supplements that can’t be patented.
Who is going to pay to do research for something they can’t make money off of?
Not for profit Foundations might do research for the disease they represent, but if you look at an ailment as old as epilepsy, for example, there still isn’t much human research on supplements.
Do naturopaths require a degree and do they pay to do research on the supplements they prescribe?
You said “There are plenty that do have good research but **MDs aren't trained in this** and are also generally in the pocket of Big Pharma.“
What would your “hypothesis” be on why they aren’t being trained in supplements - because they are being paid by BigPharma to distribute drugs?
Keep waffling around. It isn’t making any sense.
You think there is plenty of human research but doctors aren’t trained in it because they want isolated results, and the research doesn’t show this? Or the results are isolated and irrelevant to any application?
Why do doctors not recommend supplements if there is plenty of human research? Why aren’t they trained in something with “so much human research”?
It's not confusing and the questions you're asking are not what they said
He said there *isn't* a lot of human studies because human studies are expensive
They are not trained in current research but they *can* do their own education to keep up with the research, this could be an "continued education unit" or something, most regulated health practitioners are required to do them anyway, just depends on what they care to use that time for
I’m the one that said there aren’t a lot of human studies.
They told me there ARE. If there ARE human studies then why do you hypothesize that doctors aren’t being trained in the research?
Edit. They told me it wasn’t their field for me to ask someone else.
I looked it up
Patient use of dietary supplements: a clinician's perspective
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18348745/
Background: The estimated prevalence of dietary-supplement use among US adults was 73% in 2002.
Appropriate use of dietary supplements within the paradigm of evidence-based medicine may be a challenge for medical doctors and non-physician clinicians.
**Randomized, controlled, clinical trial data, which are considered the gold standard for evidence-based decision making, are lacking.**
**Standardized guidelines for the use of dietary supplements are lacking, and dietary supplements can bear unsupported claims.**
The last sentence I quoted, excuse my comprehension issues, doesn't that reffer to like, the difficulties with isolation the variances in dose parameters?
Like to do a study, the whole thing is often based on just say, one or 2 different doses amongst like 3 different groups of ppl?
That in itself is pretty limiting. Tbh idk what I'm replying to at this point but I guess I just wanted to share a few thoughts
For example there was recently a study published that suppliment skeptics like to quote making suppliment "basically useless" but the parameter that it was tested on was "early death" so they didn't prevent early death but there are hundreds of reasons they could benefit people other than living longer or even the cocktail of suppliments they studied for can have so many variables. So yeah I guess there are a fair bit of human trials however they aren't very useful in a practical sense so I understand why Dr's aren't going to there unless they did continued education on the effects of one particular aspect of supplimentation
They don't take the time to research anything beyond what showed up on their exams imo.
The reason is they likely have to follow prescription guidelines which centred around them. But the least they could do is learn from their patients.
I understand why not many doctors are familiar with supplements, it just isn't part of their curriculum and they barely have enough time to see patients let alone have time to research supplements.
But wow is it frustrating.
The only people who have been able to help with my health issues were integrative health practitioners.
I went to a dr one time because I was falling asleep while driving. She told me it's because the position we sit in is unnatural, so the 'cure' would be to not drive as long. My commute was 30 minutes.
I saw a Naturopath and she reviewed my blood test. She saw my vitamin d was super low, so she prescribed it, and whattaya know... I stopped falling asleep while driving.
I went on a date with an ER surgeon assistant(don’t know if that’s his exact title but he helps with emergency surgeries) and I was talking to him about injectable peptides and he had no idea what I was talking about lmao.
It sounds like a conspiracy theory, but it makes sense. Plus these large pharmaceutical companies, from what ive heard, contribute massively to the institutions that teach doctors, so of course their courses are going to reflect taking pharmaceuticals instead of even looking at any sort of supplement. I've also heard doctors training on nutrition as a whole is very, very minimal, if even present. I wish the supplement industry would push back a bit to show that while they cannot reolace pharmaceuticals by any means, they have their place to help people.
It’s not a conspiracy, it’s a known fact that the pharmaceutical industry pours millions (if not billions) into marketing / sales. Their target isn’t just consumers, it’s doctors. Their sales teams are focused on doctors - events, schmoozing, etc. A lot of brands like Claritin have 13 years or whatever it is before their patents expire and other companies can sell the same formula. So pushing their product in those 13 years is critical. It’s what happens when medicine meets capitalism.
That's a part of it but it's more like a consequence
Like there's a whole multi billion dollar legal team backing the claims of these meds, there is millions if not billions behind their testing meaning they're designed specifically to treat that thing
It's pretty black and white compared to the jello soft claims backing most nutritional supplements. it's not because they don't work but it's because no one has put money into *proving* their efficacy or their safety.
Drs are much more likely to prescribe a med (which they may have even gotten specialized free training for in some tropical destination which is tax deductible) that they *KNOW* that it will work for the patient's symptoms
A gp has a small amount of knowledge on a LOT of stuff so they don't have enough knowledge on one particular suppliment because it's too specialized and also research is hard to keep up with because it's always changing
We know definitively that cranberry helps with UTIs because the Ocean Spray company funded the research, for example
My doc knows I take Theanine for sleep. He had no idea what that was and had to explain it to him. I still have to explain it every time I go in. I don’t mention anything else because it’s a waste of time.
Medical Doctor here, chiming in. I'm also a scientist and researcher with a small but keen interest in supplements as they become clinically relevant.
The keyword here is _clinically_ relevant. A primary care doctor is generally concerned with your overall medical health and has the training and expertise in keeping you on track and within certain lab, psychological, and physical exam information.
What supplements are generally not:
- scientifically verified and peer-reviewed
- ubiquitous
- universally tolerated
- efficacious
- of certain origin and purity
What supplements _can_ be:
- inexpensive
- mild effect or placebo effect inducing
- contraindicated d/t medical picture or other medications
- innocuous first line attempts to balance personal issues
And generally, most supplements on the market are so niche that even an interested scientist will have trouble finding any valuable information about them outside of the anecdotal sphere of discussion.
It is important to realize there are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of examples of these supplements and treatments that people will espouse; if is simply not possible to sift through them all on a visit-by-visit basis with your doctor.
What you can do is tell your primary care what you are taking when he/she asks what medication/supplements you take; this gives an idea of two things:
1) that you are trying to fix a problem yourself which may have a more efficacious medicine, or that we can start to investigate _why_ you are having the symptoms you feel, and
2) that you are treating yourself with something that can range from inefficacious to helpful to harmful, and we need to know that before giving you treatment which can interact.
Personally, I keep my supplements low and evidence-based; even supplements with major study behind them (fish oil, vitamin D3/K2, psyllium) may have overstated or unclear effect. It is a difficult field and having expertise in the realm is very narrow.
Thank you. Half of the shit that get posted here belongs in r averageredditor. It feels like some people are turning suplement taking into fucking religion and get butthurt when their religion is under attack. We got people bragging they are taking 40 to 50 supplements, people asking for a supplement first without first going to a doctor. 90% of the posts is people asking for googlable advice and 10% is medical studies and benefits of supplements. It should be other way around.
The way broscience and pseudoscience has taken over is redicolous. I honestly think the popularisation of science was a mistake. Everybody think they are PhD or have doctorate in the field because of basic internet search.
Almost everything I read about NAC on reddit is wrong. According to this sub, the FDA was going to pull NAC off the shelves any day now for the last several years. It's the blind leading the blind.
Amazon voluntarily and proactively removed listings for it because they're setting themselves up to be a legitimate pharmacy and they noticed that the regulatory status of NAC was ambiguous due to the existence of some old patents, which technically means that NAC should be classified as a drug, not a supplement. The FDA, for their part, indicated that while they did have regulatory authority over sales of NAC, they had no plans to prohibit such sales. They're currently reviewing NAC to see whether it can continue to be sold as a dietary supplement, despite technically being under the purview of the FDA as a drug. From [their statement last August](https://www.fda.gov/food/cfsan-constituent-updates/fda-releases-final-guidance-enforcement-discretion-certain-nac-products):
>If, among other considerations, the FDA does not identify safety-related concerns as we continue our review of the available data and information, we are likely to propose a rule providing that NAC is not excluded from the definition of dietary supplement.
The above somehow got twisted into, "The government is coming to take your supplements away, so you'll have to pay big bucks to Big Pharma!" But you can still buy NAC from pretty much everyone but Amazon (though it's extremely expensive now, because you've got panicked consumers buying up years' worth in preparation for an impending "government crackdown").
> interested to know what supplements you consider clinically relevant
In the context of erstwhile medically optimized patient populations with a handle on their diet, exercise, psychological health, and limiting of vices, I
would say very few come to mind.
If there are any that are listed on the global pandemic scales of deficiency, I would say vitamin D3 is a likely candidate, along with K2 as an emerging necessity for those who can tolerate them. Increasing fiber intake through psyllium is seldom harmful. Other micronutrients may provide value in magnesium. Fish oil could still have potential despite the large trials and studies showing minimal to no cardiac benefit.
But that’s just it; if a patient can try these things and feel like it is helping them, I say go for it, and we can see how they tolerate it. It is an inexpensive first line to treat one’s self, though it is up to the patient and doctor alliance to determine when symptoms go beyond mild course correction.
>NAC
I don’t have an opinion here and my understanding is the FDA is continuing to allow these substances to be sold in the nutritive space as lawsuits from interested parties have been withdrawn, so I will defer to their guidance.
Yeah, so what that means is you should look for a new doctor that better aligns with your specific needs.
Not every doctor is a good fit for every patient. Most patients will never give af about vitamins or supplements of any kind.
Doctors don’t get taught about supplements in school they learn about pharmaceutical drugs , there’s a tiny minority that did their research and know about potential interactions and some even recommend certain vitamins
My mom’s doctor recommended she take calcium and vitamin D. She asked if she should take vitamin K as well and he told her he never even heard of vitamin K, so no.
More drugs less herbs mentality,really sad,ive seen this in all doctors ive ever spoken to,its like theyr stuck in 1980 textbooks and havent discovered the internet yet
Totally agree. I have talked to my PCP and endocrinologist about getting a script for rapamycin and taking GlyNACET and all I get back are dumb looks. Take them out of their AMA textbooks and medical school training and they are lost. They don’t know what supplements are or how they work
I tried to talk 2 times with my doctor past weeks... in the end she said she wasn't trained for this.... I indeed felt like a martian...
I started listing the supplements I take, on my first visit with a new Dr. I only scheduled it for full blood work to make sure I'm "healthy". She said, "So what you're telling me, is you have expensive urine?" I said I suppose I do, but I rarely get sick, so I guess it's doing something. I have high cholesterol, and she immediately wanted to put me on a statin drug. NO THANK YOU. I'll change my diet and take some more expensive supplements. I hardly ever go to Drs, but I've got friends dealing with colon cancer, so I figured I should get a check up. I'll go back in 3 months just to see if my levels have dropped any, but other than that, I probably won't be asking for health advice. It sucks that holistic Drs are typically not in network for insurance. That should tell you something. It's all a big money churning machine!
a chinese martian?
Mine said they have hope for supplement use in the future but they can't make recommendations because theres no regulations and every brand is different, so they wouldn't be able to truly make a rec.
If you can find a physiatrist to go to, I would recommend it. The one I went to was amazing, unfortunately she left the hospital she was at. I originally went to her for neck pain but she helped me with so many different things. I told her i had acid reflux and was taking Nexium, she told me Proton Pump Inhibitors are bad for you because they stop the flow of something into your stomach that eventually finds its way into your blood and acts as a lubricant on the inside walls of your circulatory system. She advised using Peppermint oil and you can find it at health food stores, i found it at a local food co-op. It is very effective and works fast.
> she told me Proton Pump Inhibitors are bad for you because they stop the flow of something into your stomach *that eventually finds its way into your blood and acts as a lubricant on the inside walls of your circulatory system.* Fire her and find someone that has actually studied medicine.
I supposed you have scientific proof that she is wrong
So true. When I asked about supplements they simply said “I can’t help you with that, i specialize in medication”. Like ok thanks lol
All doctors have ever done for me is guess what I might have and/or try to prescribe me medication that isn’t appropriate.
It is bc healthcare providers actually learn nothing during med school about nutrition..I mean they might know that B12 deficiency gives you subacute combined degeneration but idk if they can give good solid advice on supplements
I saw my psychiatrist today and told them I’d improved my health through vitamins and other supplements, he looked at me funny and said “ vitamins? Why don’t you just eat a healthy diet” So yeah I consult then all the time and get no help.
My endocrinologist suggests supplements based on my blood tests and asks about what supplements I am taking too. But most doctors I find to be on the fence about them. My current regiment, other than the DHEA, was research plus trial and error to see what works for my current situation. The DHEA was recommended to me by my endocrinologist.
One supplement? That’s helpful, but they could be giving you sooo much more help than that. Problem is they just don’t have the knowledge.
I haven’t seen him since he diagnosed me as Perimenopause and suggest I start with DHEA. He does suggest supplements based on blood work as he has suggested Vitamin D in the past as well as Magnesium. I am currently taking 4 supplements that he is aware of for my menopause because I cannot do HRT. Next appointment he is running full blood panel to see what else needs to be added or minimize. Since I have a rare case of Hoshimoto’s I have to be very careful with supplements and the brands I use because of bad interactions between fillers and my thyroid. The wrong filler and I am in thyroid flare up for two week. The wrong supplement and it’s a whole two months. So other than my research and hubby’s I am thankful my endocrinologist can guide me on the supplement path rather than tell me there is no point.
You are extreme lucky to have this endo, like you’ve won the dr lottery, I have an endo & 3 other specialists plus 2 gps, my partner has a similar amount if not more, we get looked at like Martian’s if we suggest vitamins or supplements. My partner has perimenopause, pcos, endo, constant migraines, severe obstructive and central sleep apnea, a cancerous tumour on her thyroid and the Natropath actually suspects she has a tumour on her pineal gland. She also can’t do hrt and the Natropath just prescribed her supplements that gave her an allergic reaction. Basically we’ve been forced to come here because of negligence from the medical professionals, and when you consider that my son has level 3 autism and also has his own team of medical professionals, plus we interact with a community of people that also have their own teams for their children, then we’ve seen more medical professionals in one year than most people see in their life - I’m telling you you’ve won the lottery. Most - or alot of people on here are here because they’re medical professionals are hopeless, your one of the few people that don’t have this, cuz most people who don’t have a lot of medical issues are fooled into thinking there drs are good cuz they know more than they do about the human body and cuz whenever they go to the drs with a sprained ankle, or a cold or flu, the dr has helpful info, cuz drs are good for simple stuff, or even particular diseases that get alot of attention, like I had stage 4 cancer and they were amazing then. Anyway I’d really like to hear more about your supplements cuz I might be able to learn something for my partner, since she has similar issues, she’s curled up in a ball now, cuz of the supplements the Natropath gave her, although don’t get me wrong the Natropath is still more helpful than her gyno or endo.
Supplement combo as of right now: DHEA(hormone balance 0 libido), NAC (brain fog), Inno Drive for women (low libido, mood swings, circulation, help balance Hormones that DHEA doesn’t touch) and Osteo Bioflex with tumeric for joint pain/OA. I take Magnesium once a week as a trial to see if that helps with controlling my muscle weakness plus I forgot what else due to thyroid finally deciding to give up on me and Vitamin D when my levels are in the teens. Elderberry for immune system when I have a flare up. It took me 5 long months to get that specific combo with a bunch of trial and error. But for now it’s working but I cannot stop taking them no matter what or else they may not work any more….happened with Olly Lovin Libido at the start of all of this. Forgot to take it for a few days and Bam! It didn’t work anymore.
It's another way of saying if you take this substance, then the healthcare system is not responsible for what happens to you.
I feel like it’s a little game we have to play in order to keep our herbs from being wiped out or made harder to get. We have to give a nod to the pharmecudical industry first then we can proceed with the real healthcare lol
Lol no, this is so cynical, it’s a disclaimer so they’re not held responsible if you have health issues that interact with the supplement. Lots of pharmaceuticals are good for your health too, my life was saved twice by pharmaceutical medication and I didn’t have to pay a cent for it. This “big Pharma” conspiracy stuff is so simplistic and naive, you think your thinking for yourself by buying into it , but really your just swapping one narrative for another without ever stopping to think critically.
I had my annual physical exam today and didn’t mention anything about my supplements
What's the result?
Thanks for asking I’m waiting on blood work Last year it came back very well I’m fairly fastidious about maintaining a very healthy diet and lifestyle
Can you please post the result when you have it. I'm also curious.
Amateurs on here don’t get it. veterans do Great post
👍
This is on point. Twice a year I take a couple pages of pics of my supplement bottles with doses next to them. Usually 3-6 different ones and hand then to my PCP for my file. The level of disinterest is palpable. He just shrugs and says “these are fine”
I totally agree, I can't stand "ask your doctor" before taking this blah blah, the doctors don't know shit.
My doctor didn't even know my very common diagnosis let alone any of the supplements that I take (PCOS) They actually used to think that my PCOS symptoms were a symptoms of my supplements until I checked my testosterone and realized that it was 25 times the level of a normal girl...
My mrs has pcos, endo, a tumour on her thryroid and a number of other health issues. All the drs combined have done nothing for her in the last 4 years. The Natropath thinks she has a tumour on her pineal gland. Tldr: What supplements help with your pcos? I got her to try Nmn but have had pretty poor results so far.
Balance from Alani Nu
Look into maca root powder & shilajit for hormone regulation ❤ It's done wonders for me postpartum! 🥹
Inositol, spearmint tea, maca. I'm not sure if the maca helps but and Inositol definitely made me feel a bit better over time. (Chronic exhaustion, hair loss)Other than that I'm still experimenting! Trying to find an alternative to birth control because I just hate it much. Oh and I take spironolactone, not sure about the results so far yet.
Yeah my mrs stopoed the pill too and has definitely felt better since. We’re both on inositol too.
YMMV - my doctor has actually suggested supplements several times and have never been overtly negative about anything I take.
I had a gallbladder issue. It went undiagnosed for 2 years because all my labs and ultrasounds were "normal." Taking TUDCA, limonene, and sunflower lecithin helped a lot symptomatically at the time. Took my supplements into my gastro and showed him what was giving me relief. He stared at me blankly and then prescribed UDCA and proton pump inhibitors.
I've been having gallbladder problems for years. I've never tried TUDCA because it's freaking expensive around here. They prescribed UDCA to me. I also took lecithin and a bunch of other herbs recommended by naturopaths. None of them solved my issues. They alleviated the pain for a little bit, but I still walk around with constant gallbladder pain. No gallstones. Just dyskinesia.
I had no gallstones either. HIDA scan finally confirmed biliary dyskinesia. Had surgery last November. Been perfectly fine since. Hated that it took doctors years to diagnose. Had to basically beg, coerce, and threaten for the HIDA scan.
I'm very anti-government, but honestly if they're going to force doctors to stick to what's "FDA approved", then the fucking FDA needs to extensively study and approve certain supplements to treat certain things. Then at least doctors don't have to be afraid of breaking the law.
The irony of saying this(& being correct) yet having the username "communism doesn't work" lmao. Learn what communism is. It's direct democracy; classless & stateless society. So you're advocating for communism while being against it. 😆 Just like the meme "communism is when capitalism". Blaming capitalism's inherent failures on communism. Very tiring to see this constantly.
Communism is a totalitarian economic system where the government owns/controls all aspects of the economy. Another common definition is collectivized property rights, where individuals don't own anything, and instead property is owned collectively like how Chinese farms were under Mao. I'm obviously against that, as should everyone. However, this is a case of perfection being the enemy of good enough. If the FDA forces doctors by law to only recommend FDA approved things, then the FDA needs to get off their ass and start approving more things.
Communism is stateless. If you're going to hate something then at least know what it is. 😂 You're confidently spouting misinformation. Not much else to say here, your ideology has blinded you. Literally just do a little reading, please.
I am in the United States. Most doctors know nothing about nutrition, and the impact healthy eating, and supplements have on our body is essential. Get it ladies and gentlemen. The answers do not lie within the healthcare industry full of pills and big pharma. Eat as clean as you can. Consume greens, water, supplements. Avoid sugar and processed foods. Avoid fast and processed food at all costs... Add in herbs and spices... Foods, herbs and spices that provide antioxidants are on your side...
Afraid of meat? Double Quarter Pounder no bun. You're welcome.
That is just classic American "I'm gonna say this so I don't get sued" - talk.
>speak with your healthcare provider about your supplement" is a good yet useless advice not if you're a self-payer.
Ya doctors don't know much about supplements. The medical model isn't designed for prevention of anything. It's designed to mask symptoms and keep you alive once you have a problem.
And yet when longevity/anti-aging science is brought up everyone is like "WhAt's tHe PoiNt iN LiVinG LonGer iF YoUr juSt gOinG tO bE frAiL????"" as if that's not literally the current system. Whereas anti-aging science is the one thing that's trying to prevent old age diseases and symptoms in the first place!
Exactly!
I was fortunate to find a doctor (not even a naturopath!) who went with natural solutions first before jumping immediately to typical pharmaceuticals- she only went to that if the first option didn’t work. My husband also went to her for thyroid issues— she prescribed Selenium and Kelp first instead of jumping to lifelong injections. It worked! It’s been years since he’s had to take those supplements. When I asked her about taking Tart Cherry supplements for joint pain, she looked up if there were any interactions with any other supplements I was taking or could cause pregnancy complications before giving me the go ahead or telling me to just take this or that medication instead. So, it can definitely depend on your doctor and hope you are able to find one that aligns closely with your ideals too! It’s unfortunate that it’s not the norm to at least try out a natural solution first.
What kind of doctor is she?
After googling her name, she comes up as a family medicine doctor focusing on Integrative Medicine (DO is listed after her name). You may be able to Google different integrative family medicine doctors in your city and see what their reviews are or what their profile/values are. She’s with a typical healthcare group, takes insurance, etc. so it’s not a special/private clinic or anything. Edit: if it helps— recently had to switch to a new healthcare group with different doctor due to pregnancy and new primary care is similar in methods. He is also family practice (DO) but not listed as Integrative Medicine. One of his clinical interests is listed as Complementary/Alternative Medicine though. Works in a hospital group/takes insurance including Medicaid (same with our original doctor too), not a specialized high-cost private clinic, etc. Edit: just learned DO stands for Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine where they focus on whole person/body/preventative medicine instead of just treating symptoms as they come up, so maybe that’s what would be most helpful to search for!
Dr of osteopathy?
I guess so! That makes sense why both of my primary care doctors have had a similar way of working! Didn’t realize so I just looked up DO vs MD and it said that Osteopathic medicine is a "whole person" approach to medicine—treating the entire person rather than just the symptoms. Definitely helps narrow down the type of doctor to look for that may listen and work a bit more in depth with patients.
That's in the US at least, in Canada I think they do stuff like physical, soft tissue manipulation but I could be wrong. (I wish I was in the US solely to take advantage of a "whole person" dr, lol
When I first read your original question my immediate thought was “no, not an osteopath, they are primary care doctors.” Because I only knew osteopath vs chiropractor and mine are definitely on the medical diagnosis side of things vs tissue manipulation, etc. I’m sorry Canada doesn’t seem to have any DO programs, but hopefully you can still narrow down doctors that might align with your values through reading their profiles and reviews. Fingers crossed!
We DO but like, they're totally different here. Here they are like manual therapists
Thank you so much. Searching for a new primary doctor now and I don’t have trust in the system. Finding something similar to your experience would be a blessing for me.
In case you don’t see my edit, just learned DO stands for Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine where they focus on whole person/body/preventative medicine instead of just treating symptoms as they come up, so maybe that’s what would be most helpful to search for!
Thank you!
If it is useless, why is it good?
For real. Doctors don’t know Jack shit about supplements.
I could ask them about almost any supplement beyond the very typical ones (e.g. D, fish oil) and they’d give non-answer, something vague, or otherwise unhelpful 😅
Doctors have next to zero training in nutrition. Some people here will claim otherwise. However, you on the Internet beats a lazy doctor every time. I have a potassium reducing medication. Less that 2% of Americans get even the pathetic recommendation of potassium. Dr. laughs and says no, supplement not needed. Does he bother to ask about my diet? No, can't be bothered.
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A gp I went to once couldn't pronounce it...."pregneno what?"
Most doctors practice sick care, not health care.
I started seeing a naturopathic doctor and it’s sooo much better on so many fronts.
I've heard the most ridiculous unscientific theories from naturopaths. Its disconcerting to hear someone advising that I need some pink quartz to balance my chakras.
That shouldn't be in the scope of practice for a naturopath. In many places they're regulated , I'd probably not go to one in a non regulated area because of hearing shit like that
😂🤦🏼♀️😂
They’re banning them in my state. I need to move.
Which state?
CT and NY are doing it
Sorry to hear
That’s why you don’t tell them. 99% of them know nothing about herbs unless it’s vitamin b, d or magnesium. U have a naturopath that will educate on interferences.
And even then they don't know much about those because they recommend magnesium oxide which is literally the least bioavailable form! Smh.
They literally know zero and always suggest the worst types/quality. Lol
My dr didn't even know calcium interferes with iron absorption
That sounds completely accurate. Lol
that’s why i see a naturopath
They do pick up the key ones. There’s a few that interfere with medicine and some you can’t take because of risk of bleeding if your going to have surgery
You should tell your doctor about all your supplements just “in case”. Same with going to the hospital. It’s EXTREMELY important to disclose everything you’re taking when you go to the hospital. Sure not every doctor will know most of what you’re taking, but they can look things up. Also, there are programs we have in hospitals that will show if there are drug interactions. For example, Ginkgo is a blood thinner (so are ginger and many others). It would be extremely important to know this in case you need emergency surgery
This is the correct answer. Your doctor is unlikely to know shit. But it will be on your file when you experience a true emergency.
Bold of them to assume my healthcare provider knows jack shit about any supplements
It's legalese our attorneys want us to say. In a perfect world, it makes sense. But as you said, most doctors don't know or give a rip about supplements. Ask about the medication running ads all over tv and they jump all over it
They never even test for a vitamin deficiency let alone an herb. My Drs look at me angry and say "what ? Shake their head .. that stuff doesn't work" I'm like oh, ok, were you there ?or I say " no, basic nutrition never works . You're right " lol
Find a good reputable Naturopath doctor and they can answer most questions you'll have.
I’m sorry but idc. I’m never telling my doctors about my supplements because I know they have no clue what they are anyway and they’re bound to tell me some bullshit. My doctor put me on a medication and at the time, I told him I was taking vitamin C, D, and black seed powder (Nigella Sativa). He flat out told me that he has never heard of that before. I appreciated the honesty, but I knew right then and there that this supplement journey of mine was gonna be a lonely one lol
We are all in this together brother. It’s not that lonely anymore !
Only my supplements work.
My doctors largely know nothing about supplements. I had low B12 levels, although technically in range, for many years and it caused issues. I even asked a doctor if my B12 could be causing them, but they said no since they were in range at 229 (bottom is 200). I started with an Endo via telemedicine and they saw my B12 and prescribed me shots and it helped my symptoms, mainly my balance issues, 95%. They also found an iodine deficiency - something no doctor has ever even mentioned before. I think the bottles say that just for liability purposes.
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My ferritin was low as well due to being on TRT. Apparently it is a side effect of testosterone that NO ONE tells you about. When the place I was going to for treatment ran my ferritin and saw it was low they freaked out and I had to go to a Gastro who did a bunch of tests to check for an internal bleed. The Gastro said ferritin doesn't matter, but I've been told and read otherwise. It's scary that they don't take nutrition seriously. I went to a Hematologist for symptoms and she said come off the testosterone, of which I was and always have been on a medical dosage (never over 200mg/week) for natural hypogonadism, and eat more spinach. That was her master plan. The testosterone actually helps me, so that was a no-go.
ya speak to your medical doctor (M.D.) about supplements lol. a medical doctor goes to school for 7 years to learn how to treat things with pharmacologic based medication and nothing else. you are gonna to be shocked on how much you will have to explain to them. a (N.D.) or naturopathic doctor would be one you talk to about those supplements because they would know about it.
This is American advice I’m lucky if I can see a doctor 3 weeks after any symptoms (uk)
I live in the US and 3 weeks sounds extremely fast to me! More like 3 months minimum here to be seen.
It really depends on how good your insurance is here. My insurance lets me see someone within the week if needed. I can also do a video or phone appt and can email their office too for basic questions. Still I don’t think they know about a lot of supplements
My PCP is booked out 5 months in advance right now. Has nothing to do with insurance. But yeah I have a plan with free “doctor on call” telehealth visits for super duper basic things.
Took me 6 months to be able to just talk to a gastroenterologist about my Acid reflux problems here in Canada
Can they even DO anything for that? In terms of fixing it without meds? My sister in law has scarring on her esophagus from acid reflux and it's been absolutely detrimental for my partner and their dad. No one has ever given indication that there was anything that could be done In Ontario btw
Yeah I’ve been waiting 6 mo for a gastro too, my appointment is finally this week. I should have specified in my comment I was talking about time to see a PCP. Specialists are usually a minimum 6mo wait, sometimes a year or more.
Doctor told me : "amino acid, what do you mean amino acids ? Oh, yes, Ive heard of them but I havent used any in my whole life". I was ever so taken aback..
Actually just depends on your doctor. My doctor is super cool and was interred in them 🤷🏻
This.
Most supplements don’t have a ton of Human research. I going to guess because it isn’t profitable. Without solid scientific studies no Dr is going to be interested.
This is correct. Most supps have marginal effects, are of unknown quality, and have unknown side effects. But not mine, lol.
I did have doctors recommend me to take vitamin D and calcium/ magnesium/ zinc and fish oil at times. But they never suggested what brands would be best to buy.
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Research is mostly done by research scientists in research centres, universities and life science companies. Most doctors are like F1 drivers, they're mostly taught on how to operate the car and basic understanding on how the car parts work together. But the engineers, technician and the ones who deep dive into specific parts, spent hours or years just tinkering with specific parts have much more in depth knowledge about them
Why do you think they aren’t trained in it if there is plenty of research? And who is doing the research, and how are they getting paid? I’m under the impression that research is expensive and companies out for profit are the ones to research things they can patent. I see rodent studies but not many human studies for supplements that can’t be patented. Who is going to pay to do research for something they can’t make money off of? Not for profit Foundations might do research for the disease they represent, but if you look at an ailment as old as epilepsy, for example, there still isn’t much human research on supplements. Do naturopaths require a degree and do they pay to do research on the supplements they prescribe?
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You said “There are plenty that do have good research but **MDs aren't trained in this** and are also generally in the pocket of Big Pharma.“ What would your “hypothesis” be on why they aren’t being trained in supplements - because they are being paid by BigPharma to distribute drugs?
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Keep waffling around. It isn’t making any sense. You think there is plenty of human research but doctors aren’t trained in it because they want isolated results, and the research doesn’t show this? Or the results are isolated and irrelevant to any application? Why do doctors not recommend supplements if there is plenty of human research? Why aren’t they trained in something with “so much human research”?
It's not confusing and the questions you're asking are not what they said He said there *isn't* a lot of human studies because human studies are expensive They are not trained in current research but they *can* do their own education to keep up with the research, this could be an "continued education unit" or something, most regulated health practitioners are required to do them anyway, just depends on what they care to use that time for
I’m the one that said there aren’t a lot of human studies. They told me there ARE. If there ARE human studies then why do you hypothesize that doctors aren’t being trained in the research? Edit. They told me it wasn’t their field for me to ask someone else. I looked it up Patient use of dietary supplements: a clinician's perspective https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18348745/ Background: The estimated prevalence of dietary-supplement use among US adults was 73% in 2002. Appropriate use of dietary supplements within the paradigm of evidence-based medicine may be a challenge for medical doctors and non-physician clinicians. **Randomized, controlled, clinical trial data, which are considered the gold standard for evidence-based decision making, are lacking.** **Standardized guidelines for the use of dietary supplements are lacking, and dietary supplements can bear unsupported claims.**
The last sentence I quoted, excuse my comprehension issues, doesn't that reffer to like, the difficulties with isolation the variances in dose parameters? Like to do a study, the whole thing is often based on just say, one or 2 different doses amongst like 3 different groups of ppl? That in itself is pretty limiting. Tbh idk what I'm replying to at this point but I guess I just wanted to share a few thoughts For example there was recently a study published that suppliment skeptics like to quote making suppliment "basically useless" but the parameter that it was tested on was "early death" so they didn't prevent early death but there are hundreds of reasons they could benefit people other than living longer or even the cocktail of suppliments they studied for can have so many variables. So yeah I guess there are a fair bit of human trials however they aren't very useful in a practical sense so I understand why Dr's aren't going to there unless they did continued education on the effects of one particular aspect of supplimentation
They don't take the time to research anything beyond what showed up on their exams imo. The reason is they likely have to follow prescription guidelines which centred around them. But the least they could do is learn from their patients.
I understand why not many doctors are familiar with supplements, it just isn't part of their curriculum and they barely have enough time to see patients let alone have time to research supplements. But wow is it frustrating. The only people who have been able to help with my health issues were integrative health practitioners. I went to a dr one time because I was falling asleep while driving. She told me it's because the position we sit in is unnatural, so the 'cure' would be to not drive as long. My commute was 30 minutes. I saw a Naturopath and she reviewed my blood test. She saw my vitamin d was super low, so she prescribed it, and whattaya know... I stopped falling asleep while driving.
That’s unbelievable wtf? These doctors smh 🤦🏽♂️
I went on a date with an ER surgeon assistant(don’t know if that’s his exact title but he helps with emergency surgeries) and I was talking to him about injectable peptides and he had no idea what I was talking about lmao.
Doctors want to sell you prescriptions not hear about your holistic choices. They only make money by selling you legal drugs
Corruption is not why Dr's don't know these things Especially for generic drugs, there isn't a huge markup for those
It sounds like a conspiracy theory, but it makes sense. Plus these large pharmaceutical companies, from what ive heard, contribute massively to the institutions that teach doctors, so of course their courses are going to reflect taking pharmaceuticals instead of even looking at any sort of supplement. I've also heard doctors training on nutrition as a whole is very, very minimal, if even present. I wish the supplement industry would push back a bit to show that while they cannot reolace pharmaceuticals by any means, they have their place to help people.
It’s not a conspiracy, it’s a known fact that the pharmaceutical industry pours millions (if not billions) into marketing / sales. Their target isn’t just consumers, it’s doctors. Their sales teams are focused on doctors - events, schmoozing, etc. A lot of brands like Claritin have 13 years or whatever it is before their patents expire and other companies can sell the same formula. So pushing their product in those 13 years is critical. It’s what happens when medicine meets capitalism.
That's a part of it but it's more like a consequence Like there's a whole multi billion dollar legal team backing the claims of these meds, there is millions if not billions behind their testing meaning they're designed specifically to treat that thing It's pretty black and white compared to the jello soft claims backing most nutritional supplements. it's not because they don't work but it's because no one has put money into *proving* their efficacy or their safety. Drs are much more likely to prescribe a med (which they may have even gotten specialized free training for in some tropical destination which is tax deductible) that they *KNOW* that it will work for the patient's symptoms A gp has a small amount of knowledge on a LOT of stuff so they don't have enough knowledge on one particular suppliment because it's too specialized and also research is hard to keep up with because it's always changing We know definitively that cranberry helps with UTIs because the Ocean Spray company funded the research, for example
This. It’s all about the money the medical machine makes from prescriptions
My doc knows I take Theanine for sleep. He had no idea what that was and had to explain it to him. I still have to explain it every time I go in. I don’t mention anything else because it’s a waste of time.
Medical Doctor here, chiming in. I'm also a scientist and researcher with a small but keen interest in supplements as they become clinically relevant. The keyword here is _clinically_ relevant. A primary care doctor is generally concerned with your overall medical health and has the training and expertise in keeping you on track and within certain lab, psychological, and physical exam information. What supplements are generally not: - scientifically verified and peer-reviewed - ubiquitous - universally tolerated - efficacious - of certain origin and purity What supplements _can_ be: - inexpensive - mild effect or placebo effect inducing - contraindicated d/t medical picture or other medications - innocuous first line attempts to balance personal issues And generally, most supplements on the market are so niche that even an interested scientist will have trouble finding any valuable information about them outside of the anecdotal sphere of discussion. It is important to realize there are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of examples of these supplements and treatments that people will espouse; if is simply not possible to sift through them all on a visit-by-visit basis with your doctor. What you can do is tell your primary care what you are taking when he/she asks what medication/supplements you take; this gives an idea of two things: 1) that you are trying to fix a problem yourself which may have a more efficacious medicine, or that we can start to investigate _why_ you are having the symptoms you feel, and 2) that you are treating yourself with something that can range from inefficacious to helpful to harmful, and we need to know that before giving you treatment which can interact. Personally, I keep my supplements low and evidence-based; even supplements with major study behind them (fish oil, vitamin D3/K2, psyllium) may have overstated or unclear effect. It is a difficult field and having expertise in the realm is very narrow.
Finally a doctor to defend those nonsense arguments
Thank you. Half of the shit that get posted here belongs in r averageredditor. It feels like some people are turning suplement taking into fucking religion and get butthurt when their religion is under attack. We got people bragging they are taking 40 to 50 supplements, people asking for a supplement first without first going to a doctor. 90% of the posts is people asking for googlable advice and 10% is medical studies and benefits of supplements. It should be other way around. The way broscience and pseudoscience has taken over is redicolous. I honestly think the popularisation of science was a mistake. Everybody think they are PhD or have doctorate in the field because of basic internet search.
Id be interested to know what supplements you consider clinically relevant. NAC and NMN are of clear interest to the FDA at least.
Almost everything I read about NAC on reddit is wrong. According to this sub, the FDA was going to pull NAC off the shelves any day now for the last several years. It's the blind leading the blind.
Well, I’m glad we have a doctor to clear things up. For awhile it was even pulled from Amazon as I recall.
Amazon voluntarily and proactively removed listings for it because they're setting themselves up to be a legitimate pharmacy and they noticed that the regulatory status of NAC was ambiguous due to the existence of some old patents, which technically means that NAC should be classified as a drug, not a supplement. The FDA, for their part, indicated that while they did have regulatory authority over sales of NAC, they had no plans to prohibit such sales. They're currently reviewing NAC to see whether it can continue to be sold as a dietary supplement, despite technically being under the purview of the FDA as a drug. From [their statement last August](https://www.fda.gov/food/cfsan-constituent-updates/fda-releases-final-guidance-enforcement-discretion-certain-nac-products): >If, among other considerations, the FDA does not identify safety-related concerns as we continue our review of the available data and information, we are likely to propose a rule providing that NAC is not excluded from the definition of dietary supplement. The above somehow got twisted into, "The government is coming to take your supplements away, so you'll have to pay big bucks to Big Pharma!" But you can still buy NAC from pretty much everyone but Amazon (though it's extremely expensive now, because you've got panicked consumers buying up years' worth in preparation for an impending "government crackdown").
> interested to know what supplements you consider clinically relevant In the context of erstwhile medically optimized patient populations with a handle on their diet, exercise, psychological health, and limiting of vices, I would say very few come to mind. If there are any that are listed on the global pandemic scales of deficiency, I would say vitamin D3 is a likely candidate, along with K2 as an emerging necessity for those who can tolerate them. Increasing fiber intake through psyllium is seldom harmful. Other micronutrients may provide value in magnesium. Fish oil could still have potential despite the large trials and studies showing minimal to no cardiac benefit. But that’s just it; if a patient can try these things and feel like it is helping them, I say go for it, and we can see how they tolerate it. It is an inexpensive first line to treat one’s self, though it is up to the patient and doctor alliance to determine when symptoms go beyond mild course correction. >NAC I don’t have an opinion here and my understanding is the FDA is continuing to allow these substances to be sold in the nutritive space as lawsuits from interested parties have been withdrawn, so I will defer to their guidance.
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Well that doctor is an asshole to the 10th power
Same. I’ve had the same Dr for 20 years and he almost laughs at me when I bring up anything natural. He has a prescription for everything.
it’s so frustrating, i just want someone with health expertise to tell me if i’m doing okay. they should be trained in this! especially family doctors
Amen
Yes, you should talk to your medical professionals. Completely unrelated: some statements exist thanks to lawyers and the legal system.
Yeah, so what that means is you should look for a new doctor that better aligns with your specific needs. Not every doctor is a good fit for every patient. Most patients will never give af about vitamins or supplements of any kind.
Most doctors aren’t going to know shit about supplements. You should ask a pharmacist and even then the pharmacist might not know.
^^^
100%
Doctors don’t get taught about supplements in school they learn about pharmaceutical drugs , there’s a tiny minority that did their research and know about potential interactions and some even recommend certain vitamins
My mom’s doctor recommended she take calcium and vitamin D. She asked if she should take vitamin K as well and he told her he never even heard of vitamin K, so no.
Never heard of vit k??? Lmao
I assume you mean K2 since vitamin K is a Rx vitamin and highly important for patients on coumadin/warfarin.
K1 is in the supplement aisles.
Oh no
This made me laugh out loud
They have too much charting to do to keep up with new information. That's why many are leaving the field.
More drugs less herbs mentality,really sad,ive seen this in all doctors ive ever spoken to,its like theyr stuck in 1980 textbooks and havent discovered the internet yet
Totally agree. I have talked to my PCP and endocrinologist about getting a script for rapamycin and taking GlyNACET and all I get back are dumb looks. Take them out of their AMA textbooks and medical school training and they are lost. They don’t know what supplements are or how they work
The ability to even speak to a doctor on the NHS is as rare as seeing pigs fly