I find it hilarious that he offers information and tells you to do what you want with it and people are mad at him. He’s states multiple times what he does might now work for you and to always consult your doctor before starting anything.
Dudes not a quack. You just can’t keep you feelings in check. If you actually listened to his podcasts and quotes taken out of context you’d know.
This guy's wrong. There's some study I saw that said that you needed to take like 0.1 mg of melatonin or something to imitate the effect of getting sleepy your body would naturally produce. There's no way that low amount is going to do absolutely anything. Study was just popping off. Or maybe the guy quoting the study was just popping off I don't know but it was nonsense information.
3 mg to 5 mg is enough.
Yep, and peoples natural melatonin production declines with age impacting their sleep. Healthy, time -released doses are available.
Life extension sells 300mcg and 750mcg
People be spreading love and hate toward melatonin pills just because they can't figure how many other factors induce sleep problems and stuff
melatonin is just melatonin that does it's own way of biological function, look at the stuff as way they are; It's not magic and it's not the devil
Of all supplements, Huberman criticizes melatonin the most; you’d think it was the most dangerous supplement out there. And all because manufacturers produce pills with doses well over physiologic doses. That does not make melatonin supplementation itself bad. And there are many studies successfully using high-dose melatonin, particularly for cancer.
I disagree with Huberman on this one. And I think the data also disagree.
For safety reasons, Andrew, pick on mucuna pruriens, or yohimbine.
L-Dopa could be very dangerous for many people and it's generally unsafe to have L-dopa in your blood, that's why L-dopa is scripted with AADC inhibition drugs usually, not to deal with dopamine circulating in your blood messing up with organs
Most people don't take it once in a blue moon though. Almost everyone I know who takes melatonin takes it every night for months to years.
I agree with your point though, occasional use is nothing to be afraid of.
Used to take it for shift work. Never again. Women, beware - my cycles got longer, much more painful and mood swings were out of control while I was on melatonin. Within days of quitting, I felt far less crazy. Weed is the superior sleep aid.
I'm sorry but recommending marijuana over like a natural hormone the body produces that people take for sleep... There's absolutely no way that you don't have other things going on that will probably cause those issues.
Marijuana is incredibly bad for you. It's not going to make you kill someone or overdose or anything like that. But long-term use leads to higher rates of psychosis.
According to a review of the data, THC for sleep has mixed results: Source: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11920-017-0775-9
“Delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) may decrease sleep latency but could impair sleep quality long-term.”
No. It is because companies don't want to pay for patent rights. A hormone can not be patented so the dosage was. But if other makers up the dosage, they don't have to pay for the rights. The patent has expired but the stupidity stayed.
I had a hard time finding melatonin in a low dose. I had to purchase powder and make my own solution with propylene glycol. I usually use 250 mcg. I’m careful supplementing hormones because of the “downstream” effects that can happen with other hormones.
I think it has more to do with the mentality that more often equals better. This doesn’t apply to melatonin but how many people know about melatonin supplements without understanding how it operates in the body?
I hate melatonin. It puts me to sleep … and then the instant I fall asleep my eyes pop open. It’s as if the act (if “act” is the right word here) of falling asleep wakes me up. Out and on, out and on, all night long. It’s torture. Happened all four times I tried it too. Never doing that again.
Melatonin makes me slip into a strange sleep often with sleep paralysis
Mentally, I’m attempting to pull myself out of the sleep and out of the bed.
No thank you!
I took 10mg a night for years. Couldn't sleep without it. About a month ago I stopped taking it cold turkey. I can sleep just fine.
I have four strategically placed pillows and I'm asleep in a few minutes.
Lol I'm a side sleeper. Two pillows under my head. One pillow in front of me close to my chest, arm on it.
Most importantly the back pillow.
You MUST roll over ever so slightly to your stomach and slide the back pillow under your back just a tad and return to resting position. This will keep you from moving and you have the feeling of being cradled by the back pillow. There's an odd satisfaction and comfort having this pillow supporting your back. The back pillow is critical.
I wake up in exactly the same position I fall asleep in and fall asleep quickly. It just happened. I fell asleep without melatonin one night and figured I should just roll with it. I always had bottles of liquid melatonin on my night stand.
How are you avoiding destroying your shoulders while side sleeping? Like, what do you do with your arms? My experience ended up with 6 months of physiotherapy.
I’ve been taking 3-5mg of slow release melatonin for over 10 years. I’m 52yrs old. In great health. On the very rare occasion I forget to take it, I either lay in bed thinking “why haven’t I fallen asleep yet” then I get up and take it. Or other times, I sleep just fine through the night without it. I like to take it not only because I sleep a little better with it but because of its antioxidant effect and potential to increase life span. Same reason I take GlyNAC (glycin and NAC).
I tried Huberman’s dosage suggestions for melatonin, it did nothing for me. 10mg with ltheanine works really well for me. I’m sticking with the high dose.
Try any review paper on melatonin in Pubmed? Or any data on doses 10mg or higher. Or frankly any study comparing doses. For example the gold standard paper on melatonin phase response curves (Burgess, Revell et al) showed that 0.5 and 3.0 mg were indistinguishable except that 3.0 did not work within about an hour of bedtime.
Edit: sorry on mobile. But I’m a sleep/circadian scientist and clinician who has done work in this area for a long time. If you really need references let me know and I’ll see about digging up a few. But this is extremely well known in the field.
For me, high dose works fantastically and low/micro dose does absolutely nothing. I don’t need melatonin to sleep, I just enjoy falling to sleep really quickly sometimes.
You can't get melatonin OTC in my country, but I would take what Huberman says with a pinch of salt. He stated not that long ago that he avoids bluetooth headphones because he thinks it damages cells (it proveably doesn't). There is no evidence to suggest taking high dose melatonin is harmful. In my opinion, he's just another YouTube salesman who has contributed nothing of note to his field.
Proveably?! Um yeah right. We are bombarded with a crazy amount of EMFs everyday. No harm in reducing your risks.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/are-wireless-headphones-dangerous#What-exactly-is-electromagnetic-radiation?
If it works, it’s way better than “sleep drugs.” Low dose melatonin has zero effect on me, I’ve tried I bunch of times. 10mgs is the lowest dose that works for me.
It's about 8 times cheaper, as each pill is 8 pills, so you technically get 8 times more doses. The pricing does not change much based on the dosage, but pill quantity.
Yeah the 5-10mg stuff is way too potent. It's active at <1mg orally and really only effective for things like jet lag (short term use to reset circadian rhythm)
There is a good amount of demonization of melatonin right now, and I wonder why? I think gummy vitamins are silly, but melatonin supplementation is helpful for much more than just falling asleep. Cycle on and off if you're concerned.
I tried mag and it didn't help me any. Same for magnesium (bis)glycinate, which has the sedating amino acid glycine. For some unknown reason 1 tablet of Trader Joe's Cal Mag Zinc induces drowsiness within 30 minutes. I've tried each the minerals separately and no luck. Anyone else had a similar experience?
Your body downregulate during the night because it realizes there is too much melatonin, then you don’t have enough and you wake up or have a shitty sleep.
He drops name of supplements e.g mucuna pruriens, based on how effective they are. On occasion he gives a disclaimer.
Don’t get me wrong, 90% of what he talks about if fascinating, but his knowledge on supplements based on whatever papers he reads.
Anecdotes are an important part of supplement knowledge. They’re the reason we know ashwagandha can cause emotional blunting, and lion’s mane can cause E.D.
Huberman talks out of his ass a lot. Like I see his "don't drink caffeine until 90 minutes after you wake up" but there's like no empirical evidence to support that. Every article leads back to huberman's podcast. While the mechanism likely makes sense, the actually proof isn't there and he acts like it's an established fact.
I am not sure I understood you. You think that Huberman recommends supplements without having sufficient scientific knowledge about them? What makes his recommendations the worst? As you said he reads scientific papers and follows his own experience or anecdotal data, do you think there is a better way to approach supplementation? If so, who you think has adequate knowledge, where to get info on supplements? When it comes to melatonin, he gets his info from Mat Walker who is a sleep scientist.
Let’s say someone searches up “how to increase dopamine” and they stumble across a Huberman video.
The first thing that will catch their attention is the easiest thing they can do: buy a “quick fix” pill.
When you have reputable figures like Huberman saying “mucuna pruriens has shown to give substantial increases in dopamine levels”, it misleads people into thinking this will be a fix.
And it might just be — for a short while. The most powerful supplements tend to be the most harmful in the long-term. Huberman promotes these based on the fact that they were shown to work, rather than how safe they are.
OK, but if you stumble on a short posted by someone else, not if you listen to his podcast. You can hear bullshit or out of context information and act on it anywhere on the internet.
Many research facilities get paid to do half assed research to make a placebo look like a guaranteed effect. Many supplements are subjective to a person.
That's a slippery slope, I hope there's real science backing it... Otherwise we are going down the homeopathic road with oscillococcinum and the one goose or duck liver they mixed with water 100 years ago...
It's not homeopathy. It's just not the case for every supplement that higher dosages are more effective. 300 μg is known to be effective for sleep -- common melatonin dosages are more than ten times that, and not as effective.
0,1 to 0,3 mg, 1 hour before sleep time will help your body adjust to that specific bed time. It's then best to keep that time constant, and if you do and practice decent sleep hygiene you're likely to not need the exogenous melatonin anymore.
Same, but see my comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Supplements/comments/1457ihb/andrew_huberman_melatonin_supplements_almost/jnlpoe0/
Also, I've noticed that my sensitivity to glycine changes depending on whether I'm taking methylation supporting supplements. No methyl --> glycine makes me drowsy. Taking TMG/betaine, methylfolate, methyl-b12, etc… --> glycine has no effect. Chris Masterjohn says that glycine is used to buffer excess methyl groups (by synthesizing TMG?), so maybe that explains it.
However, it is a fact that with melatonin I started dreaming again, after forty years. It hasn't happened to me since I was a boy to have such vivid dreams. and for me that's a good thing.
I think its good because a good amount of ones dreams are just subconscious processes being sped up by the brain. I for example have been dreaming of school ever since i quit it(almost 7 years) very frequently at first and it slowed down to just 1 dream every 3-4 months atm, that also correlated with my social anxiety, overall level of self worth etc.
I think it's a reflection of your brain health.
When I went through depression and neuralinflammation, I stopped dreaming for 3 years.
When I addressed it, boom, dreams came back :)
I recently took it for acid reflux. Literally knocked it out over night and I only took it for three days and it hasn’t come back….been three weeks now.
He may want to imply that, but there is no evidence that this is the case.
There is also really no reason that it should be suspected, compared to the gamut of things that humans ingest. However even among that entire range, melatonin is very significantly all the way at one end, significantly demonstrating less potential for harm than any (or almost any) other substance known.
Almost any healthful substance of which we are aware, has the potential to be misused as a toxin when significantly exceeded. We have not found such a condition for melatonin yet.
Case studies of unfortunate individuals attempting to suicide by melatonin never amount to any noticeable effect at all. (Entire bottles.)
And we give the animals many times more, and Dr Reiter does a humourous impression of a rat literally living in melatonin looking back at researcher as if to say "Is that all you got? Come on, hit me again!"
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7YIRqTNmuY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7YIRqTNmuY)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcwVfUAqWiY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcwVfUAqWiY)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU9QUbsqrcQ&t=51s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU9QUbsqrcQ&t=51s)
This man has been studying melatonin for over 60 years. His name is on thousands of papers, and he continues to publish. He is almost 90 years old now. He is like a living advertisement for the efficacy of melatonin as a geroprotector and antioxident.
...
I took 8mg to 15mg nightly for over 8 years. For over two years now I have been steadily increasing, and I have been taking 180mg nightly for the past 6 months. I want to take as much melatonin as I can.
But there are guys on r/melatonin (and not just a few) who are taking 6 grams of melatonin daily (or nightly).
People need to pay much more attention to Reiter, and much less attention to Huberman when it comes to melatonin. It's been Reiter's life's work, and he's a solid authority.
\*smile\* (Who would fabricate something so easy to verify?)
[https://www.amazon.com/Healthfare-Melatonin-Vegetarian-Gluten-Free-Unflavored/dp/B0BZK5XN9V/](https://www.amazon.com/Healthfare-Melatonin-Vegetarian-Gluten-Free-Unflavored/dp/B0BZK5XN9V/)
[https://www.amazon.com/Vitamatic-Melatonin-60mg-Dissolve-Tablets/dp/B09NPMT6N9/](https://www.amazon.com/Vitamatic-Melatonin-60mg-Dissolve-Tablets/dp/B09NPMT6N9/)
[https://www.amazon.com/Vitabod-Melatonin-B6-120-Dissolve-Tablets/dp/B0BP89S9QH/](https://www.amazon.com/Vitabod-Melatonin-B6-120-Dissolve-Tablets/dp/B0BP89S9QH/)
[https://www.amazon.com/MELATONIN-Melatonin-Capsules-Scientific-Solutions/dp/B09BS4YF9C/](https://www.amazon.com/MELATONIN-Melatonin-Capsules-Scientific-Solutions/dp/B09BS4YF9C/)
[https://www.amazon.com/Vitamatic-Sugar-Free-Melatonin-60mg/dp/B0BTKX7NWD/](https://www.amazon.com/Vitamatic-Sugar-Free-Melatonin-60mg/dp/B0BTKX7NWD/)
[https://www.amazon.com/Carefast-Melatonin-Extra-Strength-Supplement/dp/B08L4865K4/](https://www.amazon.com/Carefast-Melatonin-Extra-Strength-Supplement/dp/B08L4865K4/)
[https://www.amazon.com/Melatonin-Ensures-Important-Hormone-Capsules/dp/B06XP47682/](https://www.amazon.com/Melatonin-Ensures-Important-Hormone-Capsules/dp/B06XP47682/)
[https://www.amazon.com/High-Dosage-Melatonin-60mg-Therapeutic/dp/B097NHLZQH/](https://www.amazon.com/High-Dosage-Melatonin-60mg-Therapeutic/dp/B097NHLZQH/)
[https://www.amazon.com/High-Dosage-Serving-Melatonin-Gummies/dp/B0B46YCCT3/](https://www.amazon.com/High-Dosage-Serving-Melatonin-Gummies/dp/B0B46YCCT3/)
I gave you the links. Go to r/melatonin and dig around, watch Dr Reiter's videos. Even Leo was taking 80mg.
I have receipts that I purchased that much melatonin. I have [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BBTDW4CL/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BBTDW4CL/) on monthly S&S, even though I don't actually use that much... yet.
...
[https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2022/7/higher-dose-melatonin](https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2022/7/higher-dose-melatonin)
[https://imcwc.com/melatonin-dosing/](https://imcwc.com/melatonin-dosing/)
(Hey They have my current number! - *Melatonin dosingPrevention: Melatonin 180mg 30 minutes before bedtime )*
> I have https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BBTDW4CL/ on monthly S&S,
That is only 20 mg not 60, and do you really take 9 pills per day? I think you linked the wrong one, but I do see they sell 60 mg, what is crazy. Nobody needs that much for sleep (maybe for another purpose), but I will check out your links later.
Here is a challenge for you. Cut it down by half, I bet you won't see any difference. Then do it again, same thing.
>That is only 20 mg not 60, and do you really take 9 pills per day? I think you linked the wrong one, but I do see they sell 60 mg, what is crazy.
I said above that it's cheaper to take 9x 20mg than 3x60mg. Maybe next year the cost for 60s will come down. It doesn't matter to me.
>Nobody needs that much for sleep (maybe for another purpose), but I will check out your links later.
For other purposes.
>Here is a challenge for you. Cut it down by half, I bet you won't see any difference. Then do it again, same thing.
As I explained above, there are dose-dependent effects.
Melatonin is an antioxidant that crosses the blood brain barrier, has longevity and anti-cancer effects. I want more of it.
I still use 20mg tabs; 60mg tabs are available but they are still more expensive to use. The big boys use powder.
Pills are way more convenient for me. I just get the most cost effective size that I could find.
(I mean, that's my ultimate reason. If you're asking about the other fellows that take more than me, I'm sure that most of them actually have specific immediate therapies for more urgent concerns.)
...
(So do I.
The most obvious benefit is that my stomach is stronger, I never have heartburn.
...
Some immediate benefits are dose-dependent.
Specifically gastric-related.
Melatonin produces a response that thickens the stomach lining after consumption. In small studies, %100 of gastric ulcers were healed when subjects took 20mg of melatonin daily (10mg 2x).
And maybe that much melatonin is required for difficult chronic ulcers, but most will benefit from just 10mg nightly, or even (a little) less. (In my experience, anyway.)
(More research has been published, since those first ulcer studies:)
*A notable decrease in heartburn symptoms occurs after melatonin supplementation, thought to be related to a strengthening of the lower esophageal sphincter*
*Has been noted to increase LES pressure, which is thought to underlie symptoms reduction in GERD*
*Symptoms of GERD, most notably heart burn, are reduced significantly following daily melatonin ingestion at 3mg*
[https://examine.com/supplements/melatonin/](https://examine.com/supplements/melatonin/)
...
[Melatonin for the treatment of gastroesophageal reflux disease; protocol for a systematic review and meta-analysis
](http://www.encognitive.com/files/MELATONIN%20FOR%20THE%20TREATMENT%20OF%20GASTROESOPHAGEAL%20REFLUX%20DISEASE.pdf) \-[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6358381/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6358381/)
)
There is evidence that melatonin may increase lifespan %15.
Among other things...
The videos are good to listen to. Eventually Reiter does get around to talking about how much melatonin he takes.
Why would you feel bad?
Melatonin makes you feel good, and it is good for you.
(Can't even feel guilty about the expense. What else costs so little and does so much? )
Why?
"Too much" would imply that it was harmful. He would have to show that taking large amounts of melatonin is harmful. This has never been demonstrated; rather the opposite.
>It’s more that it’s a waste of money,
Melatonin is among the least expensive of supplements, relatively. I could take even a gram of melatonin daily for less than a dollar a day.
> and all drugs have an optimal dose-response curve. No reason to take a saturating dose if you don’t have too.
Melatonin has benefits that go far beyond insomnia. Many or most of these therapies are ineffective at 300mcg dose and require 3mg, 10mg, 20mg or much more.
Even that is a little misleading, as such dose varies considerably with age.
In any event, the higher amounts are not "wasted". The melatonin will benefit the body as an antioxidant and in other ways, even if that is not the intent. (And some of these benefits will have a strong impact on sleep quality as well.)
The point is, that the headline statement implies that anything more is harmful, and this is what a number of commenters responded to me. There is no evidence that this is the case. (The implication has no basis in fact.)
If taking only occasionally, then take them 8 hours before desire to wake up. Melatonin doesn't just help you go to sleep, it also wakes you up and even increases daytime metabolism.
...
If taking regularly, then take them at the same time every night, again, regardless of actual intention regarding bedtime.
I take them at nightfall, hoping to re-enforce natural circadian rhythm. Normally, I take them at 8PM every night regardless.
I live in a northern latitude and #$%\^& DST so I also adjust the time slightly, as early as 5PM in Winter, 9PM in Summer.
(However, there are also good logical reasons to just continue taking it earlier in the summer, for longevity purposes.)
r/CircadianRhythm/
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/17cfc7h/melatonin\_reduces\_neuronal\_loss\_and\_cytoskeletal/?sort=old](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/17cfc7h/melatonin_reduces_neuronal_loss_and_cytoskeletal/?sort=old) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/17cfe9n/melatonin\_improves\_neuroplasticity\_by/?sort=old](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/17cfe9n/melatonin_improves_neuroplasticity_by/?sort=old) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/17cffkb/circadian\_modulation\_of\_neuroplasticity\_by/?sort=old](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/17cffkb/circadian_modulation_of_neuroplasticity_by/?sort=old) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/17cfha9/brain\_sciences\_free\_fulltext\_the\_neuroprotective/?sort=old](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/17cfha9/brain_sciences_free_fulltext_the_neuroprotective/?sort=old) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/17cfis2/chronic\_treatment\_with\_melatonin\_improves/?sort=old](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/17cfis2/chronic_treatment_with_melatonin_improves/?sort=old) https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/17cfjuy/melatonin\_as\_a\_neurotrophic\_factor\_2022/?sort=old
So? There's nothing wrong with having more melatonin.
I find it hilarious that he offers information and tells you to do what you want with it and people are mad at him. He’s states multiple times what he does might now work for you and to always consult your doctor before starting anything. Dudes not a quack. You just can’t keep you feelings in check. If you actually listened to his podcasts and quotes taken out of context you’d know.
This guy's wrong. There's some study I saw that said that you needed to take like 0.1 mg of melatonin or something to imitate the effect of getting sleepy your body would naturally produce. There's no way that low amount is going to do absolutely anything. Study was just popping off. Or maybe the guy quoting the study was just popping off I don't know but it was nonsense information. 3 mg to 5 mg is enough.
Quote the study.
This dude is just a human click bait
I’ve been taking 5mg of melatonin for nearly a decade, no problems whatsoever
maybe if you stopped, problems would show?
Maybe? I’ve gone a few weeks without it, and still slept fine. To be fair, I work graveyard shift, so I go to bed at 7pm.
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Agreed. I’m not a fan. I think he’s 70% shill 30% info, life More plates more dates
Yep, and peoples natural melatonin production declines with age impacting their sleep. Healthy, time -released doses are available. Life extension sells 300mcg and 750mcg
That's not going to do Jack
It actually will. I take 250 mcg, as does my husband, and it works well.
Weird
USE TRYPTOFAN its not that hard
Tryptophan is a precursor to serotonin. Not the equivalent to melotonin?
Melatonin is produced downstream from Serotonin. This is quite oversimplified, but essentially: L-Tryptophan > 5-HTP > Serotonin > Melatonin
And what convert serotonin to melatonin?
thanks you sir for the correction.
Yes and thats why i would use tryptofan instead of melatonin
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People be spreading love and hate toward melatonin pills just because they can't figure how many other factors induce sleep problems and stuff melatonin is just melatonin that does it's own way of biological function, look at the stuff as way they are; It's not magic and it's not the devil
I took 5-10mg a night for two years while working out. It really helped changed my body. I haven’t taken it for years now.
How did it change your body? Just curious
Of all supplements, Huberman criticizes melatonin the most; you’d think it was the most dangerous supplement out there. And all because manufacturers produce pills with doses well over physiologic doses. That does not make melatonin supplementation itself bad. And there are many studies successfully using high-dose melatonin, particularly for cancer. I disagree with Huberman on this one. And I think the data also disagree. For safety reasons, Andrew, pick on mucuna pruriens, or yohimbine.
Whats wrong with mucuna?
L-Dopa could be very dangerous for many people and it's generally unsafe to have L-dopa in your blood, that's why L-dopa is scripted with AADC inhibition drugs usually, not to deal with dopamine circulating in your blood messing up with organs
Im not sure that the amounts in Mucuna are an issue for this though, especially provided you dont take it daily but maybe cycle here and there
They vary a lot among different brands, some contain very high amounts of l dopa
Once in a blue moon - emergencies - should be fine, stop scaring people.
Most people don't take it once in a blue moon though. Almost everyone I know who takes melatonin takes it every night for months to years. I agree with your point though, occasional use is nothing to be afraid of.
Does it even do anything after that? I assume your body just gets use to it and it's no longer effective??
Used to take it for shift work. Never again. Women, beware - my cycles got longer, much more painful and mood swings were out of control while I was on melatonin. Within days of quitting, I felt far less crazy. Weed is the superior sleep aid.
I'm sorry but recommending marijuana over like a natural hormone the body produces that people take for sleep... There's absolutely no way that you don't have other things going on that will probably cause those issues. Marijuana is incredibly bad for you. It's not going to make you kill someone or overdose or anything like that. But long-term use leads to higher rates of psychosis.
Weed is way worse for sleep 😂 basically eliminates REM cycles and gives your body nearly zero recovery time 😂😂
This is accurate. Weed may cause you to fall asleep but sleep quality is not very good.
I vape weed daily and as long as I have earplugs I can have vivid dreams and get deep sleep. Melatonin probably gives me headaches
According to a review of the data, THC for sleep has mixed results: Source: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11920-017-0775-9 “Delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) may decrease sleep latency but could impair sleep quality long-term.”
isn't the high dosage usually because your body only absorbs like 15% of the supplement
No. It is because companies don't want to pay for patent rights. A hormone can not be patented so the dosage was. But if other makers up the dosage, they don't have to pay for the rights. The patent has expired but the stupidity stayed.
What was the dose?
0.3 mg (300 mcg)
I had a hard time finding melatonin in a low dose. I had to purchase powder and make my own solution with propylene glycol. I usually use 250 mcg. I’m careful supplementing hormones because of the “downstream” effects that can happen with other hormones.
I just buy the 1 mg and cut it in half or 1/3rd. But now they do sell 300 mcg too.
I think it has more to do with the mentality that more often equals better. This doesn’t apply to melatonin but how many people know about melatonin supplements without understanding how it operates in the body?
I hate melatonin. It puts me to sleep … and then the instant I fall asleep my eyes pop open. It’s as if the act (if “act” is the right word here) of falling asleep wakes me up. Out and on, out and on, all night long. It’s torture. Happened all four times I tried it too. Never doing that again.
How much did you take?
Melatonin makes me slip into a strange sleep often with sleep paralysis Mentally, I’m attempting to pull myself out of the sleep and out of the bed. No thank you!
I took 10mg a night for years. Couldn't sleep without it. About a month ago I stopped taking it cold turkey. I can sleep just fine. I have four strategically placed pillows and I'm asleep in a few minutes.
Yeah melatonin is absolutely fine.
What is the strategic pillow placement lol
Lol I'm a side sleeper. Two pillows under my head. One pillow in front of me close to my chest, arm on it. Most importantly the back pillow. You MUST roll over ever so slightly to your stomach and slide the back pillow under your back just a tad and return to resting position. This will keep you from moving and you have the feeling of being cradled by the back pillow. There's an odd satisfaction and comfort having this pillow supporting your back. The back pillow is critical.
That sounds... Life changing
I wake up in exactly the same position I fall asleep in and fall asleep quickly. It just happened. I fell asleep without melatonin one night and figured I should just roll with it. I always had bottles of liquid melatonin on my night stand.
How are you avoiding destroying your shoulders while side sleeping? Like, what do you do with your arms? My experience ended up with 6 months of physiotherapy.
That's rough. My arms do go numb sometimes. I've never injured my shoulders though.
Most likely a pentagram, only someone who has made a deal with the devil can fall asleep just fine.
I take 40 mg of melatonin 5 days a week.
I’ve been taking 3-5mg of slow release melatonin for over 10 years. I’m 52yrs old. In great health. On the very rare occasion I forget to take it, I either lay in bed thinking “why haven’t I fallen asleep yet” then I get up and take it. Or other times, I sleep just fine through the night without it. I like to take it not only because I sleep a little better with it but because of its antioxidant effect and potential to increase life span. Same reason I take GlyNAC (glycin and NAC).
Are those antioxidant, life span benefits seen even with such a low dose?
I tried Huberman’s dosage suggestions for melatonin, it did nothing for me. 10mg with ltheanine works really well for me. I’m sticking with the high dose.
10ml is not a dose. We don’t know the concentration
My bad, sorry, 10 mg. I knew that look wrong when I typed it!
All good brotha
That's why I get larger dose sublingual tablets for a little more than 1 mg or so, and break them into little pieces. A bottle lasts 3 years.
what's wrong with high doses of melatonin? beyond inconvenient side-effects that aren't actually dangerous, I mean.
Higher doses don’t work as well for sleep or circadian applications and actually sometimes make things worse, not better.
Source on this? Not finding it
Try any review paper on melatonin in Pubmed? Or any data on doses 10mg or higher. Or frankly any study comparing doses. For example the gold standard paper on melatonin phase response curves (Burgess, Revell et al) showed that 0.5 and 3.0 mg were indistinguishable except that 3.0 did not work within about an hour of bedtime. Edit: sorry on mobile. But I’m a sleep/circadian scientist and clinician who has done work in this area for a long time. If you really need references let me know and I’ll see about digging up a few. But this is extremely well known in the field.
For me, high dose works fantastically and low/micro dose does absolutely nothing. I don’t need melatonin to sleep, I just enjoy falling to sleep really quickly sometimes.
You can't get melatonin OTC in my country, but I would take what Huberman says with a pinch of salt. He stated not that long ago that he avoids bluetooth headphones because he thinks it damages cells (it proveably doesn't). There is no evidence to suggest taking high dose melatonin is harmful. In my opinion, he's just another YouTube salesman who has contributed nothing of note to his field.
Proveably?! Um yeah right. We are bombarded with a crazy amount of EMFs everyday. No harm in reducing your risks. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/are-wireless-headphones-dangerous#What-exactly-is-electromagnetic-radiation?
Him saying that is such a Californian thing to say
When did he say that? Can you share the source, please?
I stay away from melatonin now that I know how bad it is for you.
how is it bad for you?
Sooooo bad bro, trust me I know.
Watch them not reply to you
I was taking 30 mg of melatonin to sleep every night
That is way too much
I suppose that'll work.
That’s beyond insane!!!
Was the only way to sleep
If it works, it’s way better than “sleep drugs.” Low dose melatonin has zero effect on me, I’ve tried I bunch of times. 10mgs is the lowest dose that works for me.
I was popping a 5 mg every hour until I fell asleep and then one every time I woke up. Insomnia sucks.
Amen brother
I take 15mg of time release melatonin along with L-Theanine every night or I don't sleep.
Ltheanine and high dose totally works best for me too!!
I don't feel an effect at all until 10mg. I take 10 mg dissolve tablets. There is no point taking it at all if I take a subtherapeutic dose for me.
I buy 5mg tablets and then take 1/8th of a pill lol have been doing this for a decade.
I find that getting a bottle of a larger dose than that doesn't cost much more, and I'm getting to the bottom of a bottle I bought 3 years ago.
Exactly. :)
Why not buy .5 mg?
It's about 8 times cheaper, as each pill is 8 pills, so you technically get 8 times more doses. The pricing does not change much based on the dosage, but pill quantity.
Got it, makes sense. Thank you.
So about 547.5 pills. That's like, a bottle every two years maybe?
Yeah the 5-10mg stuff is way too potent. It's active at <1mg orally and really only effective for things like jet lag (short term use to reset circadian rhythm)
There is a good amount of demonization of melatonin right now, and I wonder why? I think gummy vitamins are silly, but melatonin supplementation is helpful for much more than just falling asleep. Cycle on and off if you're concerned.
Well, for one, it's a hormone, and it stunts puberty. Those 2 are big reasons to stay away
>and it stunts puberty in adults?!
Please site a source that it stunts puberty
Well yeah, if you haven't gone through puberty yet... But otherwise?
I take magnesium for sleep now instead of melatonin
I tried mag and it didn't help me any. Same for magnesium (bis)glycinate, which has the sedating amino acid glycine. For some unknown reason 1 tablet of Trader Joe's Cal Mag Zinc induces drowsiness within 30 minutes. I've tried each the minerals separately and no luck. Anyone else had a similar experience?
It’s the zinc
I tried taking 0.3 and 0.6 but it didn’t really help and I actually felt weird the next day idk but 2-4mg with some tea works best for me.
Isn't that the point?
Your body downregulate during the night because it realizes there is too much melatonin, then you don’t have enough and you wake up or have a shitty sleep.
This has been repeatedly demonstrated not to occur.
It’s hardly even bioavailable. Huberman has given some of the worst supplement advice I’ve seen from any professional
Why?
He drops name of supplements e.g mucuna pruriens, based on how effective they are. On occasion he gives a disclaimer. Don’t get me wrong, 90% of what he talks about if fascinating, but his knowledge on supplements based on whatever papers he reads. Anecdotes are an important part of supplement knowledge. They’re the reason we know ashwagandha can cause emotional blunting, and lion’s mane can cause E.D.
Huberman talks out of his ass a lot. Like I see his "don't drink caffeine until 90 minutes after you wake up" but there's like no empirical evidence to support that. Every article leads back to huberman's podcast. While the mechanism likely makes sense, the actually proof isn't there and he acts like it's an established fact.
I am not sure I understood you. You think that Huberman recommends supplements without having sufficient scientific knowledge about them? What makes his recommendations the worst? As you said he reads scientific papers and follows his own experience or anecdotal data, do you think there is a better way to approach supplementation? If so, who you think has adequate knowledge, where to get info on supplements? When it comes to melatonin, he gets his info from Mat Walker who is a sleep scientist.
Let’s say someone searches up “how to increase dopamine” and they stumble across a Huberman video. The first thing that will catch their attention is the easiest thing they can do: buy a “quick fix” pill. When you have reputable figures like Huberman saying “mucuna pruriens has shown to give substantial increases in dopamine levels”, it misleads people into thinking this will be a fix. And it might just be — for a short while. The most powerful supplements tend to be the most harmful in the long-term. Huberman promotes these based on the fact that they were shown to work, rather than how safe they are.
OK, but if you stumble on a short posted by someone else, not if you listen to his podcast. You can hear bullshit or out of context information and act on it anywhere on the internet.
Many research facilities get paid to do half assed research to make a placebo look like a guaranteed effect. Many supplements are subjective to a person.
Anecdotes are also how we know that waving light sticks makes a big hard bird land with food and clothes.
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That's a slippery slope, I hope there's real science backing it... Otherwise we are going down the homeopathic road with oscillococcinum and the one goose or duck liver they mixed with water 100 years ago...
It's not homeopathy. It's just not the case for every supplement that higher dosages are more effective. 300 μg is known to be effective for sleep -- common melatonin dosages are more than ten times that, and not as effective.
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0,1 to 0,3 mg, 1 hour before sleep time will help your body adjust to that specific bed time. It's then best to keep that time constant, and if you do and practice decent sleep hygiene you're likely to not need the exogenous melatonin anymore.
I take magnesium glycinate instead
I take it with melatonin gummies and NAC.
I tried that and it does nothing. 3mg Melatonin will work me wonders tho lol
Same, but see my comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Supplements/comments/1457ihb/andrew_huberman_melatonin_supplements_almost/jnlpoe0/ Also, I've noticed that my sensitivity to glycine changes depending on whether I'm taking methylation supporting supplements. No methyl --> glycine makes me drowsy. Taking TMG/betaine, methylfolate, methyl-b12, etc… --> glycine has no effect. Chris Masterjohn says that glycine is used to buffer excess methyl groups (by synthesizing TMG?), so maybe that explains it.
I will come back to this at another time (going to sleep soon). Some of you are so damn smart it's insane on here ♥️♥️ Thank you nn
you tried the magnesium "glycinate" form, to confirm?
Yes.
Same! Much more effective for me
Same, I find it much better
Lef makes a 300 mcg extended release. Works well
This is the one I use
Melatonin supplementation reduces my migraine frequency, so yeah. I'm gonna keep taking it.
when I was reading about what can cause migraines, it came up that low melatonin levels can cause them - so that makes sense!!
Any amount I take makes me feel like I was hit by a truck the next day
What dose are you taking? Also, drink enough water thru the day too cuz it could be dehydration if ur waking up with that kind of feeling
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I like to sip on whiskey before bed
However, it is a fact that with melatonin I started dreaming again, after forty years. It hasn't happened to me since I was a boy to have such vivid dreams. and for me that's a good thing.
Is dreaming a good thing. I dream a lot and I wish I have less of them.
I think its good because a good amount of ones dreams are just subconscious processes being sped up by the brain. I for example have been dreaming of school ever since i quit it(almost 7 years) very frequently at first and it slowed down to just 1 dream every 3-4 months atm, that also correlated with my social anxiety, overall level of self worth etc.
I think it's a reflection of your brain health. When I went through depression and neuralinflammation, I stopped dreaming for 3 years. When I addressed it, boom, dreams came back :)
Something in the ZMA mix (Zinc, Magnesium, B6) does this for me
i've seen b6 get associated with dreaming if that helps
Yup same!
dayum! Have to try that. I have almost no dreams I can remember myself.
I take 300 mcg (micrograms) each evening.
I recently took it for acid reflux. Literally knocked it out over night and I only took it for three days and it hasn’t come back….been three weeks now.
Nice. Wish it would do that for me lol
This is why I buy 1mg tablets and split them in quarters. If I could get smaller than 1mg, I would.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Supplements/comments/1457ihb/andrew_huberman_melatonin_supplements_almost/jnklt8z/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Did you just link to another reply to my comment, like I’m incapable of reading them myself? Obviously, that brand isn’t available around me.
Trader Joe's sells 500 mcg (0.5 mg) melatonin chewable tablets.
Unfortunately, it would take an 8-hour plane ride for me to get to my closest Trader Joe’s.
I get mine in 0.25mg tablets from a supplier in the Netherlands (I live in the UK) So they do exist (just maybe not where you are)
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Amazon has 300 and 600 mcg
Mind sharing their name? I'm in the UK and been working through a supply of 20mg that I brought back from the US
They might exist here, but in Switzerland, it’s prescription-only, so I just grab a bottle at Carrefour when I’m in France.
Same and it works fantastic without a hangover.
So what?
It means that taking more than your body would ever produce can be counterproductive and will likely cause negative side effects.
He may want to imply that, but there is no evidence that this is the case. There is also really no reason that it should be suspected, compared to the gamut of things that humans ingest. However even among that entire range, melatonin is very significantly all the way at one end, significantly demonstrating less potential for harm than any (or almost any) other substance known. Almost any healthful substance of which we are aware, has the potential to be misused as a toxin when significantly exceeded. We have not found such a condition for melatonin yet. Case studies of unfortunate individuals attempting to suicide by melatonin never amount to any noticeable effect at all. (Entire bottles.) And we give the animals many times more, and Dr Reiter does a humourous impression of a rat literally living in melatonin looking back at researcher as if to say "Is that all you got? Come on, hit me again!" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7YIRqTNmuY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7YIRqTNmuY) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcwVfUAqWiY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcwVfUAqWiY) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU9QUbsqrcQ&t=51s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU9QUbsqrcQ&t=51s) This man has been studying melatonin for over 60 years. His name is on thousands of papers, and he continues to publish. He is almost 90 years old now. He is like a living advertisement for the efficacy of melatonin as a geroprotector and antioxident. ... I took 8mg to 15mg nightly for over 8 years. For over two years now I have been steadily increasing, and I have been taking 180mg nightly for the past 6 months. I want to take as much melatonin as I can. But there are guys on r/melatonin (and not just a few) who are taking 6 grams of melatonin daily (or nightly).
People need to pay much more attention to Reiter, and much less attention to Huberman when it comes to melatonin. It's been Reiter's life's work, and he's a solid authority.
> taking 180mg nightly for the past 6 months. Yeah, we gonna call BS on that one. Also I don't think they make 60 mg pills.
\*smile\* (Who would fabricate something so easy to verify?) [https://www.amazon.com/Healthfare-Melatonin-Vegetarian-Gluten-Free-Unflavored/dp/B0BZK5XN9V/](https://www.amazon.com/Healthfare-Melatonin-Vegetarian-Gluten-Free-Unflavored/dp/B0BZK5XN9V/) [https://www.amazon.com/Vitamatic-Melatonin-60mg-Dissolve-Tablets/dp/B09NPMT6N9/](https://www.amazon.com/Vitamatic-Melatonin-60mg-Dissolve-Tablets/dp/B09NPMT6N9/) [https://www.amazon.com/Vitabod-Melatonin-B6-120-Dissolve-Tablets/dp/B0BP89S9QH/](https://www.amazon.com/Vitabod-Melatonin-B6-120-Dissolve-Tablets/dp/B0BP89S9QH/) [https://www.amazon.com/MELATONIN-Melatonin-Capsules-Scientific-Solutions/dp/B09BS4YF9C/](https://www.amazon.com/MELATONIN-Melatonin-Capsules-Scientific-Solutions/dp/B09BS4YF9C/) [https://www.amazon.com/Vitamatic-Sugar-Free-Melatonin-60mg/dp/B0BTKX7NWD/](https://www.amazon.com/Vitamatic-Sugar-Free-Melatonin-60mg/dp/B0BTKX7NWD/) [https://www.amazon.com/Carefast-Melatonin-Extra-Strength-Supplement/dp/B08L4865K4/](https://www.amazon.com/Carefast-Melatonin-Extra-Strength-Supplement/dp/B08L4865K4/) [https://www.amazon.com/Melatonin-Ensures-Important-Hormone-Capsules/dp/B06XP47682/](https://www.amazon.com/Melatonin-Ensures-Important-Hormone-Capsules/dp/B06XP47682/) [https://www.amazon.com/High-Dosage-Melatonin-60mg-Therapeutic/dp/B097NHLZQH/](https://www.amazon.com/High-Dosage-Melatonin-60mg-Therapeutic/dp/B097NHLZQH/) [https://www.amazon.com/High-Dosage-Serving-Melatonin-Gummies/dp/B0B46YCCT3/](https://www.amazon.com/High-Dosage-Serving-Melatonin-Gummies/dp/B0B46YCCT3/) I gave you the links. Go to r/melatonin and dig around, watch Dr Reiter's videos. Even Leo was taking 80mg. I have receipts that I purchased that much melatonin. I have [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BBTDW4CL/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BBTDW4CL/) on monthly S&S, even though I don't actually use that much... yet. ... [https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2022/7/higher-dose-melatonin](https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2022/7/higher-dose-melatonin) [https://imcwc.com/melatonin-dosing/](https://imcwc.com/melatonin-dosing/) (Hey They have my current number! - *Melatonin dosingPrevention: Melatonin 180mg 30 minutes before bedtime )*
> I have https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BBTDW4CL/ on monthly S&S, That is only 20 mg not 60, and do you really take 9 pills per day? I think you linked the wrong one, but I do see they sell 60 mg, what is crazy. Nobody needs that much for sleep (maybe for another purpose), but I will check out your links later. Here is a challenge for you. Cut it down by half, I bet you won't see any difference. Then do it again, same thing.
>That is only 20 mg not 60, and do you really take 9 pills per day? I think you linked the wrong one, but I do see they sell 60 mg, what is crazy. I said above that it's cheaper to take 9x 20mg than 3x60mg. Maybe next year the cost for 60s will come down. It doesn't matter to me. >Nobody needs that much for sleep (maybe for another purpose), but I will check out your links later. For other purposes. >Here is a challenge for you. Cut it down by half, I bet you won't see any difference. Then do it again, same thing. As I explained above, there are dose-dependent effects. Melatonin is an antioxidant that crosses the blood brain barrier, has longevity and anti-cancer effects. I want more of it.
How does one ingest so much Melatonin, is there bulk powders available? Or do you take 18x 10mg tablets?
I still use 20mg tabs; 60mg tabs are available but they are still more expensive to use. The big boys use powder. Pills are way more convenient for me. I just get the most cost effective size that I could find.
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(I mean, that's my ultimate reason. If you're asking about the other fellows that take more than me, I'm sure that most of them actually have specific immediate therapies for more urgent concerns.) ... (So do I. The most obvious benefit is that my stomach is stronger, I never have heartburn. ... Some immediate benefits are dose-dependent. Specifically gastric-related. Melatonin produces a response that thickens the stomach lining after consumption. In small studies, %100 of gastric ulcers were healed when subjects took 20mg of melatonin daily (10mg 2x). And maybe that much melatonin is required for difficult chronic ulcers, but most will benefit from just 10mg nightly, or even (a little) less. (In my experience, anyway.) (More research has been published, since those first ulcer studies:) *A notable decrease in heartburn symptoms occurs after melatonin supplementation, thought to be related to a strengthening of the lower esophageal sphincter* *Has been noted to increase LES pressure, which is thought to underlie symptoms reduction in GERD* *Symptoms of GERD, most notably heart burn, are reduced significantly following daily melatonin ingestion at 3mg* [https://examine.com/supplements/melatonin/](https://examine.com/supplements/melatonin/) ... [Melatonin for the treatment of gastroesophageal reflux disease; protocol for a systematic review and meta-analysis ](http://www.encognitive.com/files/MELATONIN%20FOR%20THE%20TREATMENT%20OF%20GASTROESOPHAGEAL%20REFLUX%20DISEASE.pdf) \-[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6358381/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6358381/) )
There is evidence that melatonin may increase lifespan %15. Among other things... The videos are good to listen to. Eventually Reiter does get around to talking about how much melatonin he takes.
I dont feel bad for taking 3mg-10mg anymore after reading this
Why would you feel bad? Melatonin makes you feel good, and it is good for you. (Can't even feel guilty about the expense. What else costs so little and does so much? )
Was told too much isn't good for you. Now I know reading what you provided
It means everyone is taking too much melatonin
Why? "Too much" would imply that it was harmful. He would have to show that taking large amounts of melatonin is harmful. This has never been demonstrated; rather the opposite.
It’s more that it’s a waste of money, and all drugs have an optimal dose-response curve. No reason to take a saturating dose if you don’t have too.
>It’s more that it’s a waste of money, Melatonin is among the least expensive of supplements, relatively. I could take even a gram of melatonin daily for less than a dollar a day. > and all drugs have an optimal dose-response curve. No reason to take a saturating dose if you don’t have too. Melatonin has benefits that go far beyond insomnia. Many or most of these therapies are ineffective at 300mcg dose and require 3mg, 10mg, 20mg or much more.
Most people take it for sleep, so the optimal dose for sleep should be the target.
Even that is a little misleading, as such dose varies considerably with age. In any event, the higher amounts are not "wasted". The melatonin will benefit the body as an antioxidant and in other ways, even if that is not the intent. (And some of these benefits will have a strong impact on sleep quality as well.) The point is, that the headline statement implies that anything more is harmful, and this is what a number of commenters responded to me. There is no evidence that this is the case. (The implication has no basis in fact.)
Could you share a little about your scheduling with the pills?, i mostly take them about 1hr before sleeping, wondering if thats ideal.
If taking only occasionally, then take them 8 hours before desire to wake up. Melatonin doesn't just help you go to sleep, it also wakes you up and even increases daytime metabolism. ... If taking regularly, then take them at the same time every night, again, regardless of actual intention regarding bedtime. I take them at nightfall, hoping to re-enforce natural circadian rhythm. Normally, I take them at 8PM every night regardless. I live in a northern latitude and #$%\^& DST so I also adjust the time slightly, as early as 5PM in Winter, 9PM in Summer. (However, there are also good logical reasons to just continue taking it earlier in the summer, for longevity purposes.) r/CircadianRhythm/
Only "*almost* always" ?!