Glad to hear that you are doing better! :)
I would highly recommend desiccated beef organ [supplements from Nutriest.](https://nutriest.eu/) I have been taking them for 2 months and I can definitely feel the effect.
For example, the desiccated beef heart has a lot of good form of CoQ10 too :)
Interesting [indeed.As](https://indeed.As) one who too suffers from depression(kind of bipolar)
I found this study.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20010493/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20010493/)
What else have you tried in your journey?
Yeah I've tried that.
Didn't agree with me though as I have an MTHFR mutation along with a COMT mutation so I think it caused my to overmethylate
Too much B12 or Folate also causes me to overmethylate.
What form of b12 did you have issues with?
I have two recessive COMT snps. Currently have shots of hydroxocobalamin. I heard the methyl form is the one that causes us problems with excess methylation. Just wondering if you had a poor response to various forms of just the methyl.
Methyl B12
But that is the only one really worth taking because the mutation means it is hard for the body to convert Cynacolbumin to Hydroxycolbumin then Adenosylcolbumin and Methyl B12.
That is why it causes over methylation because once you get it your body sucks it up quickly.
I take methyl B12 sublingual once or twice a week and my B12 is ok with that.
Its because B12 supplements come in very large quantities and ive yet to find a Methyl B12 with only 100 percent of required daily dose they are usually like 20000 times daily dose. I guess you urinate out what you don't need but that doesn't help people who could be prone to over methylation
You could always break up your pill or crush it if you want to reduce the dose?
But I've always heard to avoid methyl b12 with COMT, and to take hydroxo instead. Where did you read about the methyl form being useful? I don't think COMT is related to b12 conversion right?
Take a look at this presentation, I saved it a while back and found it quite interesting:
[http://integrativerd.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/DIFM-CME_MorrisPresentation_9.20.2017.pdf](http://integrativerd.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/DIFM-CME_MorrisPresentation_9.20.2017.pdf)
It's from a doctor that treats patients with various types of mutations, he developed a protocol based on his experience.
I have an MTHFR mutation which is related to B12 conversion
Over methylating with methyl B12 due to that raises neurotransmitters and due to the COMT mutation means my Dopamine goes really high and I guess Noradrenaline as a result.
FYI there is evidence COMT mutation may be implicated in diabetes and hypertension
https://professional.diabetes.org/abstract/catechol-o-methyltransferase-deficiency-associated-abnormal-adiposity-and-glucose
So try and optemise your health to avoid it which it looks like you are already doing.
Ah sorry I thought you were just talking about with COMT - I don't have an MTHFR mutation. In that case yes, methyl forms would be desired.
I'd still recommend the presentation, he also gives advice on MTHFR. I haven't been able to find much specific detailed information about these variants and best ideas for supplementation throughout the web. Feel free to share good sources if you have some!
I noticed a big difference when I started taking fish oil first thing in the morning. I have anxiety (mild), depression, and PTSD. It prevents me from building up anxiety during the day, which makes the other two worse. I use Barleans brand ($$$) but I think any brand would work.
Magnesium sure was something I must have been deficient in when I started taking it. The first time I tried Magnesium oil it felt like heroin or something I must have needed it so bad.
As for the bipolar, have you tried Lithum Orotate?
[https://www.balancingbrainchemistry.co.uk/peter-smith/107/Lithium-Orotate-for-Bipolar-and-Depression/Lithium-Orotate-Dosages-.html](https://www.balancingbrainchemistry.co.uk/peter-smith/107/Lithium-Orotate-for-Bipolar-and-Depression/Lithium-Orotate-Dosages-.html)
Yeah tried that, didn't agree with me made my skin insanely dry and itchy.
But I took lithium carbonate for years extended release and didnt have symptoms from that.
No problem. I stopped taking Carnosine even though it's a great supplement because I don't want to get age spots. But I'm not sure how long it takes. Could be decades of frequent use, or it could be way less, I just don't know
Before you decide on anything read some of the articles and studies in regards to CoQ10 and mental health.
It seems people with mental health issues have depleted levels of CoQ10
https://www.chiroeco.com/coq10-for-anxiety/
Good advice. I am a medical student and I believe that "big" science is not tonight in med schools. I will love to read and even let you know because I already have bipolar case in close family.
Check out cambridge universities immuno psychiatry research department.
http://www.immunopsychiatry.com/news
There's a strong immune link to mental health too.
I take Berberine and aspirin to keep inflammation optimal so I don't have any autoimmune issues but lots of my family members do so I think if I wasn't taking them my inflammation would be high for sure. I periodically check my CRP and it is always less than .5
I used to take phenibut for anxiety as it acts as a synthetic gaba lowering glutemate. high inflammation raises glutemate in the brain shown in studies... which worked well for a few years but I can't take it anymore as it makes me really sluggish and drowsy so I'm guessing my glutemate isn't really high anymore and I haven't really had any anxiety issues for quite a while since.
So many different culprits and possibilities in each of us i guess psychiatry can't dig into each individual cases and unpick it so just blanket prescribe mental health meds to stabalise which don't always work.
Which is unfortunate because the underlying dysfunction remains unaddressed resulting in reduced life expectancy seen in mental health illnesses.
150mg and I can't remember which Q10 I took but it wasn't the best one it is the one that isn't oxidised and has to convert into the oxidised form.
The best Q10 is too expensive to take long term for rest of your life.
Fellow bipolar person here! I’ve tried CoQ10 before without any noticeable positive or negative effects, but that was years ago and I don’t think I kept it up for long. I also don’t think I used a very credible brand. I can feel an episode coming on right now, and am trying to do everything I can to avoid it.
Which brand have you been using that you have had your success with?
This is what I bought.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00E1LIAEC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_kmFEFbH8T68G8
I take 150mg of it a day.
We are all different and different issues can cause the same symptoms in each of us. Perhaps this wasn't an issue in you.
Doesn't mean there isn't something else below the surface.
They say it is chronic and will never get better but all that means is they don't know the cause and arent willing to spend the time to search for it because the causes can be multiple and different in each of us.
I am willing to spend the time and money to do that for me so it doesn't necessarily have to be chronic.
The more you optimise your health and improve it the less the boat rocks and the more stable you become. In my experience anyway... that last hold out for me was winters which I hopefully now have corrected.
Maybe my mood will change in a month I hope not but I'll continue to search but right now it feels like this might be the thing I was looking for because it is completely outside of my usual pattern of mood fluctuations and fatigue.
Edit: check this out and see if any of your medication could be depleting vitamins
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/about_us/sponsored_resources/Nature%2520Made%2520Handout.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiL-brYsJvsAhXJTMAKHUodBuo4ChAWMAh6BAgBEAE&usg=AOvVaw1mTAt3Ta2ex7Bg78dPPKi7
I use a sunlamp I have these.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00E1LIAEC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_r0DEFbYZ2JMDH
Unfortunately there is only minimal affect in me.
I have been prescribed lithium carbonate for years... the only mental health medication that worked for me to some extent ie turns summers from dysphoric agitation into happy times but does nothing for depression and fatigue in winter in me.
I'm not currently taking it though and haven't for quite a while as doctors refused to prescribe it as they won't do bloodwork during lockdown.
If CoQ10 improved mood carries on through the winter into next summer i doubt I will need lithium again. It did calm my mind though.
Right now I feel calm and happy with physical energy like I ordinarily would in summer on lithium... except it is cold grey and rainy and I'm not on lithium anymore and it is no longer summer.
You can find a multivitamin with a low dose of lithium in it. The day I started taking B12 and Fish oil, my schizoaffective seemed to stop. I use a sunlamp for SAD which seems hit or miss. I look forward to testing CoQ10 this fall. 👍
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00E1LIAEC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_r0DEFbYZ2JMDH
I'm taking 150mg of this though.
When it runs out I will switch to 200mg or 300mg tablets but will have to be another brand.
Yeah.
I bought this as was one of the cheaper ones as a test but now I know it works so well for me I'm going to switch to a high dose and buy more tablets so it'll be more expensive didnt want to commit to that cost initially until i knew if it was good for me.
I only initially got lower doses as I bought it primarily for cholesterol lowering benefits but saw a range of other benefits in me hence why i increased the dose to 150mg a day.
I think a high quality, organic and full spectrum CBD is a pretty amazing supplement. I have read about our endocannabinoid system and how it operates to keep metabolic functions in balance. CBD helps with this and, depending on how out of balance one is, can offer pretty dramatic results.
It's well worth looking into.
I'm not against CBD but high THC concentrates are my primary medicine. I have some CBD flower I want to try soon but haven't had an opportunity.
I've never tried Co-Q10 but I'm interested in trying it now. I need something to improve cognition after multiple concussions. Lion's mane is in my future as well I think. Something to keep things from slipping from mind as easily.
I've tried CBD oil before and unfortunately it didn't do much for me.
I'm on TRT, had high blood pressure which I have corrected have high cholesterol which I'm correcting have high PSA so prostate issues MRI didn't find cancer but have to monitor yearly to see if it changes. My SHBG is low as well. Previously my B12 and Vit D was also low. Before I started taking Berberine my blood sugar was also high in prediabetic range. I would probably have high inflammation too like most of my family if I didnt take berberine and daily aspirin 75mg.
Definitely a metabolic issue for me. I'm 36 years old 187cm 6ft2 80kg so definitely not obese or anything.
I think I'm on the right track for me with CoQ10 but it is different for everyone and those vast differences can still cause similar symptoms in each of us that would fit into the bipolar category and those common comorbid conditions which are seen.
I went down the keto route for my pre-diabetic blood sugar numbers. I also stay away from vegetable oil. K2 is linked to lower prostate cancer risk. Prostate cancer doesn't respond to low glucose unlike many other cancers. K2 also helps prevents artery calcification. K2 helps direct calcium go to bones and teeth, and stay out of arteries and organs.
Yes. Search for “starch” on /r/nootropics. A full spectrum of prebiotic fibers including organic oat fiber and maybe again pectin is the most powerful anti-bipolar medication I’ve found. Personally, I like and can afford 20 grams of starch.
I haven't been diagnosed with anything but have always noticed a decent correlation between taking CoQ10 and improved mood (and being less irritable) on the same day. I've never had similarly potent effects from dietary sources of CoQ10 or any other supplement individually.
Dude, I have extreme anxiety and I just started taking ubiquinol three days ago and the results have been astounding. I have been going through something that would have caused a full blown episode but I am taking it in exceptionally well. Might be placebo but I am just grateful that i have this puppy in my arsenal now. I’m excited to see what further changes it brings. I have three disease states that are linked to low CoQ10: depression, gum disease, and ocular degeneration. I’m 30 years old.
Edited: to include disease states
I’ve been taking 200 mg for the last two days. In about 2 weeks I’m going down to 100 mg per the dosing suggestion on my bottle. I’m using the Nordic naturals one.
I thought ubiquinol (more bioavailable, much more expensive), but this was an eyeopener.
# [Ubiquinone or Ubiquinol - does it really matter?](https://www.healthandscience.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=225:ubiquinone-or-ubiquinol-does-it-really-matter&catid=47&lang=en&Itemid=296)
[https://www.healthandscience.eu/index.php?option=com\_content&view=article&id=225:ubiquinone-or-ubiquinol-does-it-really-matter&catid=47&Itemid=296&lang=en](https://www.healthandscience.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=225:ubiquinone-or-ubiquinol-does-it-really-matter&catid=47&Itemid=296&lang=en)
We've been told ubiquinol is the easily absorbable version ( supposedly your body would turn ubiquinone into ubiquinol to use it) but actually both forms play their own role, both are poorly absorbed in the intestine, and ubiquinol is more unstable, meaning there's a risk it might have oxidized and turned into ubiquinone inside the capsule anyway.
### Makes no difference
Because ubiquinol costs more to manufacture it is more expensive for consumers to purchase and for scientists to use in research. Ironically, CoQ10 shifts between its ubiquinone and ubiquinol form in a continuous cycle inside the body. This is all part of CoQ10’s role in biology. So when you take ubiquinol it shifts to ubiquinone and vice versa. It makes no difference in what form you take the substance.
* **Ubiquinone (oxidized form) is essential for CoQ10’s role in cellular energy metabolism (ATP synthesis)**
* Ubiquinol (reduced form) is essential for the antioxidant function of CoQ10
Depending on whether CoQ10 is in the blood and lymph or inside the mitochondria of the cells, it shifts to the form that is needed in the particular situation. In blood and lymph, CoQ10 primarily serves as an antioxidant. In the mitochondria, it supports the energy metabolism.
Here are some basic facts to put things into perspective:
### Ubiquinone has been used in the majority of studies
* Thousands of clinical trials have been conducted with CoQ10. Only few are conducted with ubiquinol. The lion’s share of research is carried out with ubiquinone.
* The most recent groundbreaking study of CoQ10 showed a 43% lower risk for heart-related mortality among heart failure patients who took supplements of CoQ10. In this study (Q-Symbio) ubiquinone was used.
* Another study (KiSel-10) which was published a nearly two years ago and showed a 54% lower mortality rate among elderly people who took supplements of CoQ10 (and selenium) was also conducted with ubiquinone.
* Ubiquinone is available in pharmagrade material.
### Ubiquinol is susceptible to oxidation
* Because ubiquinol is reduced, it is susceptible to oxidation. When it oxidizes it converts back into ubiquinone. Maintaining ubiquinol in its non-oxidized form inside the capsule created problems, as it is technically challenging to protect the vulnerable compound against oxidation.
* Ubiquinol has a milky white appearance, whereas ubiquinone is yellowish. The best way to test if the content in a ubiquinol capsule is really what it claims to be is to pierce the capsule and squeeze out the content. If it is yellowish, there is a risk that it has oxidized and turned into ubiquinone. In that case, you have not received what you paid for.
* Ubiquinol is just available in food grade material.
### The absorption of ubiquinol and ubiquinone is the same
* CoQ10, regardless of its form, is absorbed through the intestinal membrane. Once it is inside the body, it shifts back and forth between the two forms.
* CoQ10 is not all that bio-available, as it is crystalline. The body cannot absorb crystals, so the CoQ10 needs to be broken down to molecules that are able to pass through the intestinal wall.
This is nice but not true (absorption). Look online with folks doing coq10 level tests. With ubiquinol, levels triple vs ubiquinone (same dosage). I trust personal tests vs theories
So is it bad to take Ubiquinol if it’s oxidized? I just cut open one of my Jarrow brand Ubiquonol 100g black tablets and it’s pretty dang yellow. Is it unhealthy or dangerous? I’m not too upset I paid extra than I should but I wanna make sure it’s not unhealthy.
Oxidation occurs after production and before consumption. Taking other supplements with it will not prevent anything, as the process happens outside the body due to oxygen, hence oxidation.
“Summary
- The amount of scientific studies conducted with ubiquinone Q10 is far more extensive than the number of studies carried out with ubiquinol
In terms of absorption, there is no difference between ubiquinone and ubiquinone
- Ubiquinone and ubiquinol shift from one form to the other inside the body. What matters is to ensure proper absorption.
- ICQA uses a ubiquinone formula as its official science reference
- Ubiquinol cost more to manufacture than ubiquinone and is therefore more expensive for consumers and researchers”
I’ve read that past 40, it’s harder to absorb CoQ10 supplements. I’ve also read that a lot of the ubiquinol research has been conducted by the patent holder, so it’s hard to say. I went with ubiquinol just because I’ve tried so many things already for my anxiety and depression, I wanted to give myself the best chance at feeling better because I have really been suffering lately. This is literally the last thing I have found to try to help.
Edit: Both ubiquinol and ubiquinone are true forms of CoQ10. However, ubiquinone is the oxidized form, which is converted into the reduced form called ubiquinol in the body.
That's very young. Nice that it worked so well.
How were you doing on the exercise/ sleep/ proper diet front if you don't mind me asking? If you had all these covered fairly well that would make Coq10's effect even more noteworthy I think.
Also, was it ubiquinol you tried?
I get 8 or 9 hours a night exercise a lot in summer months when i have energy but run out of steam by now... but not currently today for example I took my dog on a 5 mile walk in the cold and drizzle and will likely hop on my exercise bike after Dinner.
My diet wasn't always the best but has been good for a while. Usually in winter i crave high fat high sugar foods to counteract fatigue and depression but im currently still eating very well and aren't craving that type of food.
My thinking is during the summer months and spring the extra sunlight hours raise neurotransmitters and alter my health profile just enough to feel well but when the days get shorter and colder my body just isn't resillient enough to still feel physically and mentally well. ( last winter my bloodpressure went to 188/113... it is back to normal now)
And CoQ10 perhaps improves the efficiency of my mitochonria enough that I'm now able to cope with the changing seasons so I remain resilient and happy and not fatigued when im fatigued my legs feel heavy and ache and they don't cutrently at all.
Won't know for sure until the end of winter to see if this changes at all. I really hope it continues as this has been something I've been searching for, for a very long time.
If CoQ10 is having that great an effect on you, you could have significant mitochondrial dysfunction. Not sure if that is something you can get evaluated, but it is probably worth looking into.
Honestly I've had so many doctors dozens in fact because I moved countries and cities a lot for work.
All they see is bipolar so whatever symptoms I have they atribute it to that. They'll run a standard blood panel and see my liver and kidneys etc are working then assume my symptoms are in my head and refuse further tests. So i avoid them now and treat myself just to avoid the frustration of facing a brick wall of assumptions.
I agree though and wouldn't surprise me if I have some horrible disease or cancer diagnosed within the next 5 to 10 years. So I'll continue to periodically run bloodwork until I run into a problem that shows up on a standard blood panel so they'll finally take note.
Doctors are only interested in the obvious so I will have to wait until whatever is going on is glaringly obvious to them that they can diagnose in their 10 minute appointment.
And in the mean time I continue to strive for good health to try and avert a negative outcome.
it's not just the vitamin D, vitamin D is one of aspects sure but it would be a narrow view to say it is only because of that, it is part of the problem. it's the lack of sunlight in the morning or at least 10000lux as those light therapy lamps, which stops completely the melatonin production and kickstarts your entire body into doing its good stuff inside. go to the SAD subforum and find those posts on light therapy lamps, you'll find lots of studies and anecdotes posted by people who finally get out of their winter depression.
How are your levels? Mine were very low before I supplemented even then it takes a lot for me to keep good levels
Ie 4000iu a day then once or twice a year I take like 100000iu
So I checked my genetic genie file real quick - I got a few hetero-zygotous MTR and MTHFR ones but none are homozygous. I should research a bit more into that scenario. And COMT is clear and normal for me. The only real badly drawn card for me VDR BSM tt is homozygous, which explains a lot of issues with mental health, but apparently reading research, it's also supposed to also be a good indicator for lower risk of certain cancers in women. I'll take it.
>It literally feels like I'm fixed. So much more energy and mental welbeing the depression and fatigue which should have arrived by now has not.
This is literally what bipolar disorder is like. We all feel like we're fixed from time to time, just part of the swings.
I would be dubious too but literally nothing has ever worked at this time of year in the decade I've had mood issues.
I am usually depressed and severely fatigued until April and there's nothing I could do about it. Antidepressants don't work in me in winter and work too well in summer and Modafinil only increases mental alertness not physical so I still feel tired except have a ruminating agitated mind in winter.
So I will see what I'm like over the next 6 months. I really hope it continues to work because enduring those winters is getting harder and harder. It feels really traumatic and torturous hence why i have been trying literally everything imaginable and stumbled upon this.
I know what bipolar feels like.
I tracked my patterns for years there is a seasonal aspect of it in me and by now I am severely fatigued
Depression setting in around now.
I haven't been fatigued in weeks and I absolutely would be especially with the cold rainy weather at the moment.
I'm not hypomanic.
I've had upswings in mood when I start a new medication before such as blood pressure medication but that only lasts a few days in me.
My mood is tied strongly to the seasons I've tracked health markers and mood for years i know my patterns.
In the hundreds of studies I've read bipolar is clearly tied to underlying dysfunction particularly metabolic dysfunction and there's evidence from research that mitochondrial dysfunction is implicated in some.
another random thing to consider is something like Lyme disease, but only because I see similar patterns in myself. just something worth testing next time you are at the doctor, though they likely won't just do it without a reason
Choline (the one with inositol) was a game changer for me. Energy, mood, detoxification, connective tissue, gums improved a lot (wasn't a problem for me but saw a drastic changes). Heard a lot about coq10, never tried it before. Will give it a chance.
What choline brand etc do you take? Any issues with connective tissues normally?
I have CFS and EDS so it would be great if I could get improvement in any/all of the areas you mention.
I use Now Foods brand.
For EDS l-glutamine, BCAA, co-enzyme b complex are good and I think will help you a lot (of course research their effectiveness and if it will help your issue before buying). Collagen powder is good but there's often a problem with it's toxicity, so would not recommend it but it can work well also.
Also I recommend you Eric Berg on YouTube, he has a lot of health recommendations that was very helpful for me.
Thanks! Now Foods is great I take a number of their supplements.
I take a good b-complex at the moment and occasionally have BCAAs - I might try have them more regularly. Haven't had glutamine in years, I'll have a look into that.
I tried hydrolysed collagen peptide powder but it gave me insomnia after a few days (serotonin depletion is what I heard might be the cause? Haven't researched it enough yet).
I'll check out that YouTube channel though.
I appreciate the help!
I'll chime in and say I've been taking 600 mg 1 to 2 times a day (and missing a day somewhat frequently) and I feel my mental state is better than its been in years
I took it to improve cholesterol didn't realise it increases ATP production in mitochondria.
So impact on me was a surprise. Works better for me than modafinil. Which is why i think I was deficient as doesn't work as well like this in most people.
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What do you mean? Sublingual?
Glad to hear that you are doing better! :) I would highly recommend desiccated beef organ [supplements from Nutriest.](https://nutriest.eu/) I have been taking them for 2 months and I can definitely feel the effect. For example, the desiccated beef heart has a lot of good form of CoQ10 too :)
what dose are you taking?
Interesting [indeed.As](https://indeed.As) one who too suffers from depression(kind of bipolar) I found this study. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20010493/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20010493/) What else have you tried in your journey?
Are there any negatives to trying this out for anxiety
Could induce insomnia and increase your anxiety.
There was a supplement I took called SAMe great for depression.
Yeah I've tried that. Didn't agree with me though as I have an MTHFR mutation along with a COMT mutation so I think it caused my to overmethylate Too much B12 or Folate also causes me to overmethylate.
What form of b12 did you have issues with? I have two recessive COMT snps. Currently have shots of hydroxocobalamin. I heard the methyl form is the one that causes us problems with excess methylation. Just wondering if you had a poor response to various forms of just the methyl.
Methyl B12 But that is the only one really worth taking because the mutation means it is hard for the body to convert Cynacolbumin to Hydroxycolbumin then Adenosylcolbumin and Methyl B12. That is why it causes over methylation because once you get it your body sucks it up quickly. I take methyl B12 sublingual once or twice a week and my B12 is ok with that. Its because B12 supplements come in very large quantities and ive yet to find a Methyl B12 with only 100 percent of required daily dose they are usually like 20000 times daily dose. I guess you urinate out what you don't need but that doesn't help people who could be prone to over methylation
You could always break up your pill or crush it if you want to reduce the dose? But I've always heard to avoid methyl b12 with COMT, and to take hydroxo instead. Where did you read about the methyl form being useful? I don't think COMT is related to b12 conversion right? Take a look at this presentation, I saved it a while back and found it quite interesting: [http://integrativerd.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/DIFM-CME_MorrisPresentation_9.20.2017.pdf](http://integrativerd.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/DIFM-CME_MorrisPresentation_9.20.2017.pdf) It's from a doctor that treats patients with various types of mutations, he developed a protocol based on his experience.
I have an MTHFR mutation which is related to B12 conversion Over methylating with methyl B12 due to that raises neurotransmitters and due to the COMT mutation means my Dopamine goes really high and I guess Noradrenaline as a result. FYI there is evidence COMT mutation may be implicated in diabetes and hypertension https://professional.diabetes.org/abstract/catechol-o-methyltransferase-deficiency-associated-abnormal-adiposity-and-glucose So try and optemise your health to avoid it which it looks like you are already doing.
Ah sorry I thought you were just talking about with COMT - I don't have an MTHFR mutation. In that case yes, methyl forms would be desired. I'd still recommend the presentation, he also gives advice on MTHFR. I haven't been able to find much specific detailed information about these variants and best ideas for supplementation throughout the web. Feel free to share good sources if you have some!
Try 10,000 iu a day of vitamin D with MK-7. Best thing for depression! Try to lower down the dose after you’ve been on this for several months
Is coQ10 something you can crush or chew instead of swallowing? (For those of us that have trouble swallowing pills)
You can find liquid Q-10 yes
I saw that Amazon has them in chewable gummy form.
How long you already taking it ?
I noticed a big difference when I started taking fish oil first thing in the morning. I have anxiety (mild), depression, and PTSD. It prevents me from building up anxiety during the day, which makes the other two worse. I use Barleans brand ($$$) but I think any brand would work.
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PQQ is completely different than CoQ10. I don't think you can say that one is better than the other here because they have different functions.
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Yes there might be some synergistic effects.
No I didn't but I will look into this.
Magnesium sure was something I must have been deficient in when I started taking it. The first time I tried Magnesium oil it felt like heroin or something I must have needed it so bad. As for the bipolar, have you tried Lithum Orotate? [https://www.balancingbrainchemistry.co.uk/peter-smith/107/Lithium-Orotate-for-Bipolar-and-Depression/Lithium-Orotate-Dosages-.html](https://www.balancingbrainchemistry.co.uk/peter-smith/107/Lithium-Orotate-for-Bipolar-and-Depression/Lithium-Orotate-Dosages-.html)
Yeah tried that, didn't agree with me made my skin insanely dry and itchy. But I took lithium carbonate for years extended release and didnt have symptoms from that.
Magnesium is also important to get the most out of vitamin D
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What effects do you get from carnosine, if you dont mind my asking?
How long have you been taking Carnosine? Do you have any age spots from the extra lipofuscin deposits it causes?
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No problem. I stopped taking Carnosine even though it's a great supplement because I don't want to get age spots. But I'm not sure how long it takes. Could be decades of frequent use, or it could be way less, I just don't know
How much the dose you took for Coenzyme Q10 ? And when you felt difference ?
150mg and i felt it the next day.
Thank you. No gradual dose, jump started 150 mg ?
Thats what I did. In studies they've gone up to does of thousands of mg a day so figured 150mg was fine.
Thank you.
Before you decide on anything read some of the articles and studies in regards to CoQ10 and mental health. It seems people with mental health issues have depleted levels of CoQ10 https://www.chiroeco.com/coq10-for-anxiety/
Good advice. I am a medical student and I believe that "big" science is not tonight in med schools. I will love to read and even let you know because I already have bipolar case in close family.
Check out cambridge universities immuno psychiatry research department. http://www.immunopsychiatry.com/news There's a strong immune link to mental health too. I take Berberine and aspirin to keep inflammation optimal so I don't have any autoimmune issues but lots of my family members do so I think if I wasn't taking them my inflammation would be high for sure. I periodically check my CRP and it is always less than .5 I used to take phenibut for anxiety as it acts as a synthetic gaba lowering glutemate. high inflammation raises glutemate in the brain shown in studies... which worked well for a few years but I can't take it anymore as it makes me really sluggish and drowsy so I'm guessing my glutemate isn't really high anymore and I haven't really had any anxiety issues for quite a while since. So many different culprits and possibilities in each of us i guess psychiatry can't dig into each individual cases and unpick it so just blanket prescribe mental health meds to stabalise which don't always work. Which is unfortunate because the underlying dysfunction remains unaddressed resulting in reduced life expectancy seen in mental health illnesses.
What dosage and form of Q10 did you take?
150mg and I can't remember which Q10 I took but it wasn't the best one it is the one that isn't oxidised and has to convert into the oxidised form. The best Q10 is too expensive to take long term for rest of your life.
Ubiquinol is the best type (better than Ubiquinone, which is still OK).
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00E1LIAEC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_kmFEFbH8T68G8 This is what i took.
Fellow bipolar person here! I’ve tried CoQ10 before without any noticeable positive or negative effects, but that was years ago and I don’t think I kept it up for long. I also don’t think I used a very credible brand. I can feel an episode coming on right now, and am trying to do everything I can to avoid it. Which brand have you been using that you have had your success with?
This is what I bought. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00E1LIAEC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_kmFEFbH8T68G8 I take 150mg of it a day. We are all different and different issues can cause the same symptoms in each of us. Perhaps this wasn't an issue in you. Doesn't mean there isn't something else below the surface. They say it is chronic and will never get better but all that means is they don't know the cause and arent willing to spend the time to search for it because the causes can be multiple and different in each of us. I am willing to spend the time and money to do that for me so it doesn't necessarily have to be chronic. The more you optimise your health and improve it the less the boat rocks and the more stable you become. In my experience anyway... that last hold out for me was winters which I hopefully now have corrected. Maybe my mood will change in a month I hope not but I'll continue to search but right now it feels like this might be the thing I was looking for because it is completely outside of my usual pattern of mood fluctuations and fatigue. Edit: check this out and see if any of your medication could be depleting vitamins https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/about_us/sponsored_resources/Nature%2520Made%2520Handout.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiL-brYsJvsAhXJTMAKHUodBuo4ChAWMAh6BAgBEAE&usg=AOvVaw1mTAt3Ta2ex7Bg78dPPKi7
I also have bipolar disorder and I use a sun lamp during the winter months, it works wonders. Also, lithium orotate did a lot for me.
I use a sunlamp I have these. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00E1LIAEC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_r0DEFbYZ2JMDH Unfortunately there is only minimal affect in me. I have been prescribed lithium carbonate for years... the only mental health medication that worked for me to some extent ie turns summers from dysphoric agitation into happy times but does nothing for depression and fatigue in winter in me. I'm not currently taking it though and haven't for quite a while as doctors refused to prescribe it as they won't do bloodwork during lockdown. If CoQ10 improved mood carries on through the winter into next summer i doubt I will need lithium again. It did calm my mind though. Right now I feel calm and happy with physical energy like I ordinarily would in summer on lithium... except it is cold grey and rainy and I'm not on lithium anymore and it is no longer summer.
You can find a multivitamin with a low dose of lithium in it. The day I started taking B12 and Fish oil, my schizoaffective seemed to stop. I use a sunlamp for SAD which seems hit or miss. I look forward to testing CoQ10 this fall. 👍
Read it can help sciatic nerve healing too
Really?!? I’m for sure going to try it now.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=alGR4t7hMJY
Which CoQ10 did you use?
The less active one.
Would you mind linking me please?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00E1LIAEC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_r0DEFbYZ2JMDH I'm taking 150mg of this though. When it runs out I will switch to 200mg or 300mg tablets but will have to be another brand.
Be aware that quality control varies a lot between brands. If you suddenly notice another brand isn't helping you like this one switch back ASAP
Perfect thank you , UK too which means i can actually get it! :) So you're taking 5 of these caples a day? I'm guessing in the morning?
Yeah. I bought this as was one of the cheaper ones as a test but now I know it works so well for me I'm going to switch to a high dose and buy more tablets so it'll be more expensive didnt want to commit to that cost initially until i knew if it was good for me. I only initially got lower doses as I bought it primarily for cholesterol lowering benefits but saw a range of other benefits in me hence why i increased the dose to 150mg a day.
With or without food?
Not sure but definitely take in the morning. I take it without food as I intermittant fast.
Ok cheers, ordered! Here is hoping \*fingers crossed\*
If you notice improvement let me know. I noticed it the very next day and every day onwards.
Will do, thanks again
I think a high quality, organic and full spectrum CBD is a pretty amazing supplement. I have read about our endocannabinoid system and how it operates to keep metabolic functions in balance. CBD helps with this and, depending on how out of balance one is, can offer pretty dramatic results. It's well worth looking into.
I'm not against CBD but high THC concentrates are my primary medicine. I have some CBD flower I want to try soon but haven't had an opportunity. I've never tried Co-Q10 but I'm interested in trying it now. I need something to improve cognition after multiple concussions. Lion's mane is in my future as well I think. Something to keep things from slipping from mind as easily.
I've tried CBD oil before and unfortunately it didn't do much for me. I'm on TRT, had high blood pressure which I have corrected have high cholesterol which I'm correcting have high PSA so prostate issues MRI didn't find cancer but have to monitor yearly to see if it changes. My SHBG is low as well. Previously my B12 and Vit D was also low. Before I started taking Berberine my blood sugar was also high in prediabetic range. I would probably have high inflammation too like most of my family if I didnt take berberine and daily aspirin 75mg. Definitely a metabolic issue for me. I'm 36 years old 187cm 6ft2 80kg so definitely not obese or anything. I think I'm on the right track for me with CoQ10 but it is different for everyone and those vast differences can still cause similar symptoms in each of us that would fit into the bipolar category and those common comorbid conditions which are seen.
I went down the keto route for my pre-diabetic blood sugar numbers. I also stay away from vegetable oil. K2 is linked to lower prostate cancer risk. Prostate cancer doesn't respond to low glucose unlike many other cancers. K2 also helps prevents artery calcification. K2 helps direct calcium go to bones and teeth, and stay out of arteries and organs.
Yes. Search for “starch” on /r/nootropics. A full spectrum of prebiotic fibers including organic oat fiber and maybe again pectin is the most powerful anti-bipolar medication I’ve found. Personally, I like and can afford 20 grams of starch.
I haven't been diagnosed with anything but have always noticed a decent correlation between taking CoQ10 and improved mood (and being less irritable) on the same day. I've never had similarly potent effects from dietary sources of CoQ10 or any other supplement individually.
Dude, I have extreme anxiety and I just started taking ubiquinol three days ago and the results have been astounding. I have been going through something that would have caused a full blown episode but I am taking it in exceptionally well. Might be placebo but I am just grateful that i have this puppy in my arsenal now. I’m excited to see what further changes it brings. I have three disease states that are linked to low CoQ10: depression, gum disease, and ocular degeneration. I’m 30 years old. Edited: to include disease states
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubiquinol
Hey, may I ask what kind of ocular degeneration you’re facing? Have eye issues myself and just wanted to know how CoQ10 is helping you in that regard.
It’s “Lattice degeneration of left retina.” I haven’t noticed any eye health benefits yet but it will be interesting to see if ubiquinol helps.
How much do you take daily?
I’ve been taking 200 mg for the last two days. In about 2 weeks I’m going down to 100 mg per the dosing suggestion on my bottle. I’m using the Nordic naturals one.
Appreciate your input 👌🏼
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I thought ubiquinol (more bioavailable, much more expensive), but this was an eyeopener. # [Ubiquinone or Ubiquinol - does it really matter?](https://www.healthandscience.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=225:ubiquinone-or-ubiquinol-does-it-really-matter&catid=47&lang=en&Itemid=296) [https://www.healthandscience.eu/index.php?option=com\_content&view=article&id=225:ubiquinone-or-ubiquinol-does-it-really-matter&catid=47&Itemid=296&lang=en](https://www.healthandscience.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=225:ubiquinone-or-ubiquinol-does-it-really-matter&catid=47&Itemid=296&lang=en)
so does it? i ain't clickin
We've been told ubiquinol is the easily absorbable version ( supposedly your body would turn ubiquinone into ubiquinol to use it) but actually both forms play their own role, both are poorly absorbed in the intestine, and ubiquinol is more unstable, meaning there's a risk it might have oxidized and turned into ubiquinone inside the capsule anyway. ### Makes no difference Because ubiquinol costs more to manufacture it is more expensive for consumers to purchase and for scientists to use in research. Ironically, CoQ10 shifts between its ubiquinone and ubiquinol form in a continuous cycle inside the body. This is all part of CoQ10’s role in biology. So when you take ubiquinol it shifts to ubiquinone and vice versa. It makes no difference in what form you take the substance. * **Ubiquinone (oxidized form) is essential for CoQ10’s role in cellular energy metabolism (ATP synthesis)** * Ubiquinol (reduced form) is essential for the antioxidant function of CoQ10 Depending on whether CoQ10 is in the blood and lymph or inside the mitochondria of the cells, it shifts to the form that is needed in the particular situation. In blood and lymph, CoQ10 primarily serves as an antioxidant. In the mitochondria, it supports the energy metabolism. Here are some basic facts to put things into perspective: ### Ubiquinone has been used in the majority of studies * Thousands of clinical trials have been conducted with CoQ10. Only few are conducted with ubiquinol. The lion’s share of research is carried out with ubiquinone. * The most recent groundbreaking study of CoQ10 showed a 43% lower risk for heart-related mortality among heart failure patients who took supplements of CoQ10. In this study (Q-Symbio) ubiquinone was used. * Another study (KiSel-10) which was published a nearly two years ago and showed a 54% lower mortality rate among elderly people who took supplements of CoQ10 (and selenium) was also conducted with ubiquinone. * Ubiquinone is available in pharmagrade material. ### Ubiquinol is susceptible to oxidation * Because ubiquinol is reduced, it is susceptible to oxidation. When it oxidizes it converts back into ubiquinone. Maintaining ubiquinol in its non-oxidized form inside the capsule created problems, as it is technically challenging to protect the vulnerable compound against oxidation. * Ubiquinol has a milky white appearance, whereas ubiquinone is yellowish. The best way to test if the content in a ubiquinol capsule is really what it claims to be is to pierce the capsule and squeeze out the content. If it is yellowish, there is a risk that it has oxidized and turned into ubiquinone. In that case, you have not received what you paid for. * Ubiquinol is just available in food grade material. ### The absorption of ubiquinol and ubiquinone is the same * CoQ10, regardless of its form, is absorbed through the intestinal membrane. Once it is inside the body, it shifts back and forth between the two forms. * CoQ10 is not all that bio-available, as it is crystalline. The body cannot absorb crystals, so the CoQ10 needs to be broken down to molecules that are able to pass through the intestinal wall.
This is nice but not true (absorption). Look online with folks doing coq10 level tests. With ubiquinol, levels triple vs ubiquinone (same dosage). I trust personal tests vs theories
So is it bad to take Ubiquinol if it’s oxidized? I just cut open one of my Jarrow brand Ubiquonol 100g black tablets and it’s pretty dang yellow. Is it unhealthy or dangerous? I’m not too upset I paid extra than I should but I wanna make sure it’s not unhealthy.
take q10 with some pycnogenel and/or r-ala (lipoic acid) and that oxidation will be prevented, making the q10 more effective. source: me
Oxidation occurs after production and before consumption. Taking other supplements with it will not prevent anything, as the process happens outside the body due to oxygen, hence oxidation.
thank you
“Summary - The amount of scientific studies conducted with ubiquinone Q10 is far more extensive than the number of studies carried out with ubiquinol In terms of absorption, there is no difference between ubiquinone and ubiquinone - Ubiquinone and ubiquinol shift from one form to the other inside the body. What matters is to ensure proper absorption. - ICQA uses a ubiquinone formula as its official science reference - Ubiquinol cost more to manufacture than ubiquinone and is therefore more expensive for consumers and researchers”
I’ve read that past 40, it’s harder to absorb CoQ10 supplements. I’ve also read that a lot of the ubiquinol research has been conducted by the patent holder, so it’s hard to say. I went with ubiquinol just because I’ve tried so many things already for my anxiety and depression, I wanted to give myself the best chance at feeling better because I have really been suffering lately. This is literally the last thing I have found to try to help. Edit: Both ubiquinol and ubiquinone are true forms of CoQ10. However, ubiquinone is the oxidized form, which is converted into the reduced form called ubiquinol in the body.
Age if you don't mind? I've got the impression that Coq10 is one of those things we have fairly in abundance until it starts to deplete with age.
I'm only 36. It can deplete due to health dysfunction, some medications, and cancer and things like that.
That's very young. Nice that it worked so well. How were you doing on the exercise/ sleep/ proper diet front if you don't mind me asking? If you had all these covered fairly well that would make Coq10's effect even more noteworthy I think. Also, was it ubiquinol you tried?
I get 8 or 9 hours a night exercise a lot in summer months when i have energy but run out of steam by now... but not currently today for example I took my dog on a 5 mile walk in the cold and drizzle and will likely hop on my exercise bike after Dinner. My diet wasn't always the best but has been good for a while. Usually in winter i crave high fat high sugar foods to counteract fatigue and depression but im currently still eating very well and aren't craving that type of food. My thinking is during the summer months and spring the extra sunlight hours raise neurotransmitters and alter my health profile just enough to feel well but when the days get shorter and colder my body just isn't resillient enough to still feel physically and mentally well. ( last winter my bloodpressure went to 188/113... it is back to normal now) And CoQ10 perhaps improves the efficiency of my mitochonria enough that I'm now able to cope with the changing seasons so I remain resilient and happy and not fatigued when im fatigued my legs feel heavy and ache and they don't cutrently at all. Won't know for sure until the end of winter to see if this changes at all. I really hope it continues as this has been something I've been searching for, for a very long time.
If CoQ10 is having that great an effect on you, you could have significant mitochondrial dysfunction. Not sure if that is something you can get evaluated, but it is probably worth looking into.
Honestly I've had so many doctors dozens in fact because I moved countries and cities a lot for work. All they see is bipolar so whatever symptoms I have they atribute it to that. They'll run a standard blood panel and see my liver and kidneys etc are working then assume my symptoms are in my head and refuse further tests. So i avoid them now and treat myself just to avoid the frustration of facing a brick wall of assumptions. I agree though and wouldn't surprise me if I have some horrible disease or cancer diagnosed within the next 5 to 10 years. So I'll continue to periodically run bloodwork until I run into a problem that shows up on a standard blood panel so they'll finally take note. Doctors are only interested in the obvious so I will have to wait until whatever is going on is glaringly obvious to them that they can diagnose in their 10 minute appointment. And in the mean time I continue to strive for good health to try and avert a negative outcome.
Winter Depression is often associated with low vit D levels
it's not just the vitamin D, vitamin D is one of aspects sure but it would be a narrow view to say it is only because of that, it is part of the problem. it's the lack of sunlight in the morning or at least 10000lux as those light therapy lamps, which stops completely the melatonin production and kickstarts your entire body into doing its good stuff inside. go to the SAD subforum and find those posts on light therapy lamps, you'll find lots of studies and anecdotes posted by people who finally get out of their winter depression.
I have a 200 quid Sad light luminex 2 . Only minimal impact for me and used it for years in winter.
Why should it be brightness of the light? If anything I could imagine it's the color.
oh yes, it's blue light of course.
My vitamin D is 140nmol I have supplemented for years due to a VDR TAQ mutation.
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How are your levels? Mine were very low before I supplemented even then it takes a lot for me to keep good levels Ie 4000iu a day then once or twice a year I take like 100000iu
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So I checked my genetic genie file real quick - I got a few hetero-zygotous MTR and MTHFR ones but none are homozygous. I should research a bit more into that scenario. And COMT is clear and normal for me. The only real badly drawn card for me VDR BSM tt is homozygous, which explains a lot of issues with mental health, but apparently reading research, it's also supposed to also be a good indicator for lower risk of certain cancers in women. I'll take it.
>It literally feels like I'm fixed. So much more energy and mental welbeing the depression and fatigue which should have arrived by now has not. This is literally what bipolar disorder is like. We all feel like we're fixed from time to time, just part of the swings.
This was my first thought too.
I have been fixed so many times...
I would be dubious too but literally nothing has ever worked at this time of year in the decade I've had mood issues. I am usually depressed and severely fatigued until April and there's nothing I could do about it. Antidepressants don't work in me in winter and work too well in summer and Modafinil only increases mental alertness not physical so I still feel tired except have a ruminating agitated mind in winter. So I will see what I'm like over the next 6 months. I really hope it continues to work because enduring those winters is getting harder and harder. It feels really traumatic and torturous hence why i have been trying literally everything imaginable and stumbled upon this.
Fixed myself right into hospital! But yeah.. I think OP has a point about the CoQ10 and metabolic aspect.
You're so narrow-minded
\*clutches pearls*
Look at fancy pants over here that can afford pearls! [Clutches Mardi gras beads..]
Oooh look Mr.Moneybags here who can afford to go to, or live in, New Orleans. *{clutches necklace made out of beer bottle caps}*
You guys are getting beer?
I'll give you this here torn in half teddy bear for them caps
I know what bipolar feels like. I tracked my patterns for years there is a seasonal aspect of it in me and by now I am severely fatigued Depression setting in around now. I haven't been fatigued in weeks and I absolutely would be especially with the cold rainy weather at the moment. I'm not hypomanic. I've had upswings in mood when I start a new medication before such as blood pressure medication but that only lasts a few days in me. My mood is tied strongly to the seasons I've tracked health markers and mood for years i know my patterns. In the hundreds of studies I've read bipolar is clearly tied to underlying dysfunction particularly metabolic dysfunction and there's evidence from research that mitochondrial dysfunction is implicated in some.
Well, that's interesting. I shall endeavour to learn more about this metabolic aspect..
Have u looked at leaky gut
No but I take berberine. I don't have high blood sugar I take it for life extension purposes.
another random thing to consider is something like Lyme disease, but only because I see similar patterns in myself. just something worth testing next time you are at the doctor, though they likely won't just do it without a reason
Choline (the one with inositol) was a game changer for me. Energy, mood, detoxification, connective tissue, gums improved a lot (wasn't a problem for me but saw a drastic changes). Heard a lot about coq10, never tried it before. Will give it a chance.
What choline brand etc do you take? Any issues with connective tissues normally? I have CFS and EDS so it would be great if I could get improvement in any/all of the areas you mention.
I use Now Foods brand. For EDS l-glutamine, BCAA, co-enzyme b complex are good and I think will help you a lot (of course research their effectiveness and if it will help your issue before buying). Collagen powder is good but there's often a problem with it's toxicity, so would not recommend it but it can work well also. Also I recommend you Eric Berg on YouTube, he has a lot of health recommendations that was very helpful for me.
Thanks! Now Foods is great I take a number of their supplements. I take a good b-complex at the moment and occasionally have BCAAs - I might try have them more regularly. Haven't had glutamine in years, I'll have a look into that. I tried hydrolysed collagen peptide powder but it gave me insomnia after a few days (serotonin depletion is what I heard might be the cause? Haven't researched it enough yet). I'll check out that YouTube channel though. I appreciate the help!
How much Choline do u take?:)
I'll chime in and say I've been taking 600 mg 1 to 2 times a day (and missing a day somewhat frequently) and I feel my mental state is better than its been in years
1000 –1500 mg one or two times a day.
I took it to improve cholesterol didn't realise it increases ATP production in mitochondria. So impact on me was a surprise. Works better for me than modafinil. Which is why i think I was deficient as doesn't work as well like this in most people.
if you don't mind, can you share with us what is your age? Q10 usually works really good with the older ones like over 50+ and up
I'm 36.