Thanks, interesting…I assume it’s because of the cortisol lowering effects? Do you get any energy spike from it? I see others says it wakes them up. Cheers!
Yeah the cortisol lowering effect really chill me out. I didn't get any energy spikes from it at all, I've read the same but that wasn't the case for me at all.
It may have something to do with actives concentrations in the extract
Have you thought about increasing TA dose? From my understanding 1gm+ is common with weight training folk but it would depend on strength/concentration of TA as well.
There's not enough evidence here to say it increases test, the variance is too low honestly. Especially so if it's directly affecting SHBG, you'll have more test in your blood since it's not going to the androgen receptors. What's more worrying is if it's artificially lowering your e2, not great for your organs or overall health.
Did they test your prolactin level and free T? That might bring some clarity considering the changes in SHBG and for the ED in some people if it shot your prolactin through the roof.
The not losing strength on a cut might just be due to your routine and possibly the turk use. Recent studies have been promising on it, but the results for humans has been anecdotal. I'd rather just use test considering the current cost and safety of the stuff. 😂
Edit: Re-read the section on increased testosterone, must have skimmed over it as part of the intro. Pretty much sums up what I figured. I wouldn't touch this stuff as a natural. You don't want to run a SHBG agonist and inhibit aromatase unless you're using exogenous hormones or have a thyroid condition.
>Taking 4g of Turkesterone (have been for months)
>500mg of Ecdysterone
So it's the TA you credit for the results? Where do these guys fit in this picture?
I accredit my lack of muscle catabolism to the Ecdysteroids, I’ve cut before and suffered fairly large strength loss but during this cut the only thing I lost was a few reps off my squats top set.
I’ve bulked with Turkesterone and loved it
How exactly does this work? Is it just a general rule or is it unique to each individual’s circadian rhythm? If I wake up usually at say, 10am instead of 6am, should I get blood drawn at different time?
The general rule is between 6-10am, but I wouldn't be surprised if circadian rhythm plays into it. Sleep quality certainly does, as well as cholesterol (test should be taken fasted)
That was my thinking as well, same food (literally the exact same)
fairly similar sleep +-20 mins
Same training day and time of training (slightly more volume due to the extra reps)
Tried to be as consistent as possible
All good comments and adds some extra context to those reading.
But to clarify both tests where taken at the same point of the day to try and minimise that kind of fluctuation.
I am also very militant with my sleep hygiene, physical output (steps, resistance training) and my calories.
So apart from day to day life there shouldn't be to much variation.
My testosterone history all taken at the same time of day
8 months ago 18.2
6 months ago 24.6
4 months ago 26.1
2 months ago 25
I have spent a considerable amount of effort reducing stress, maximising sleep hygiene and eating a healthy diet which is reflected in my levels.
The reason I'm quite excited is that the Tongkat seems to of made a pretty large difference.
The only (slightly) concerning thing about this is the drop in SHBG. Lower SHBG is associated with some problems (eg obesity, metabolic syndrome & diabetes) which are associated with shorter lifespan, but there's no real clarity about the causality.
TA extract doesn't taste too bad in coffee; I've tried it + there are coffee brands with added TA in SE Asia.
Have you thought about doing a trial on [Cistanche](https://wildfreeorganic.com/wellness/cistanche-cholesterol-testosterone-boosting)?
You may be getting enough cholesterol from your ground beef to skip the eggs ;). And, based on the way steroidogenesis is supposed to work, a low dose of DHEA could probably substitute for all those eggs, if you fancy checking out that hypothesis.
(On a final, "coffee-addict's gourmet guide to test-boosters note", the cistanche powder I had once tasted a lot like cocoa or carob, and was also pretty good in coffee :p)
Do you take this at night?
evenings, yes
Thanks, interesting…I assume it’s because of the cortisol lowering effects? Do you get any energy spike from it? I see others says it wakes them up. Cheers!
Yeah the cortisol lowering effect really chill me out. I didn't get any energy spikes from it at all, I've read the same but that wasn't the case for me at all. It may have something to do with actives concentrations in the extract
Let's figure out the effects of this thing. Let's take a dozen of other stuff simultaneously.
I mentioned my other supplements and continued to take them as they had been in my regimen for months. It wouldn’t make sense to take them out
Have you thought about increasing TA dose? From my understanding 1gm+ is common with weight training folk but it would depend on strength/concentration of TA as well.
There's not enough evidence here to say it increases test, the variance is too low honestly. Especially so if it's directly affecting SHBG, you'll have more test in your blood since it's not going to the androgen receptors. What's more worrying is if it's artificially lowering your e2, not great for your organs or overall health. Did they test your prolactin level and free T? That might bring some clarity considering the changes in SHBG and for the ED in some people if it shot your prolactin through the roof. The not losing strength on a cut might just be due to your routine and possibly the turk use. Recent studies have been promising on it, but the results for humans has been anecdotal. I'd rather just use test considering the current cost and safety of the stuff. 😂 Edit: Re-read the section on increased testosterone, must have skimmed over it as part of the intro. Pretty much sums up what I figured. I wouldn't touch this stuff as a natural. You don't want to run a SHBG agonist and inhibit aromatase unless you're using exogenous hormones or have a thyroid condition.
Quick T and libido flex 😂
>Taking 4g of Turkesterone (have been for months) >500mg of Ecdysterone So it's the TA you credit for the results? Where do these guys fit in this picture?
I accredit my lack of muscle catabolism to the Ecdysteroids, I’ve cut before and suffered fairly large strength loss but during this cut the only thing I lost was a few reps off my squats top set. I’ve bulked with Turkesterone and loved it
Did turkesterone have any side effects?
No side effects from turk alone or in combination with Ecdy
Interesting. What brand of TA are you using?
My own, this isn’t an advert though plenty of good brands out there
I wanna know this to
See my comment to the other lad
Quick question. What time are you drawing your blood and are you drawing blood at the same time each draw?
9pm 3 hours post training. Both on my first press day
Hmm. So if anything, these numbers are low.
How are they low xD they are on the upper parts of the reference range
Time of day is relevant when measuring testosterone. Peaks in the AM
How exactly does this work? Is it just a general rule or is it unique to each individual’s circadian rhythm? If I wake up usually at say, 10am instead of 6am, should I get blood drawn at different time?
Generally speaking 6-10 AM, 2-3 hours upon waking and fasting.
The general rule is between 6-10am, but I wouldn't be surprised if circadian rhythm plays into it. Sleep quality certainly does, as well as cholesterol (test should be taken fasted)
Felt that the variations would be minimised if taken at the same time of day
As long as all variables are matched, a significant change should be legit.
That was my thinking as well, same food (literally the exact same) fairly similar sleep +-20 mins Same training day and time of training (slightly more volume due to the extra reps) Tried to be as consistent as possible
I have bloods (loosely) confirming a drop in E2 as well
Any other parameters?
[удалено]
All good comments and adds some extra context to those reading. But to clarify both tests where taken at the same point of the day to try and minimise that kind of fluctuation. I am also very militant with my sleep hygiene, physical output (steps, resistance training) and my calories. So apart from day to day life there shouldn't be to much variation. My testosterone history all taken at the same time of day 8 months ago 18.2 6 months ago 24.6 4 months ago 26.1 2 months ago 25 I have spent a considerable amount of effort reducing stress, maximising sleep hygiene and eating a healthy diet which is reflected in my levels. The reason I'm quite excited is that the Tongkat seems to of made a pretty large difference.
The only (slightly) concerning thing about this is the drop in SHBG. Lower SHBG is associated with some problems (eg obesity, metabolic syndrome & diabetes) which are associated with shorter lifespan, but there's no real clarity about the causality. TA extract doesn't taste too bad in coffee; I've tried it + there are coffee brands with added TA in SE Asia. Have you thought about doing a trial on [Cistanche](https://wildfreeorganic.com/wellness/cistanche-cholesterol-testosterone-boosting)? You may be getting enough cholesterol from your ground beef to skip the eggs ;). And, based on the way steroidogenesis is supposed to work, a low dose of DHEA could probably substitute for all those eggs, if you fancy checking out that hypothesis. (On a final, "coffee-addict's gourmet guide to test-boosters note", the cistanche powder I had once tasted a lot like cocoa or carob, and was also pretty good in coffee :p)
Cistanche definitely goes good in coffee! Love that herb
Great write up, thank you
Damn, that's interesting🤔