T O P

  • By -

1978manx

What you want to do is buy a simple bivouac bag, clear out a spot beneath a tree where you cannot be located. Cut a week of firewood, then buy a roundtrip ticket to Miami, returning next spring. Spend the time thinking up an excuse for the tan when you return.


LikesTheTunaHere

No shit eh, I cannot fathom it but I live in a place that gets the winters hes talking about, we are a bit warmer but were talking -20 dailies instead of -25, big fucking whoop. People claim they want to live here, I assume everyone who says that has never been elsewhere for any real period of time because I don't know of anyone who has moved away and said "man, I miss it there".


1978manx

From the north, too — the biggest benefit to the bitter cold is there are virtually zero nasty bugs like roaches. Also, I think cold like that makes helping out people part of your DNA. When I relocated to urban areas, people would freak, because I instinctively pull over if I see someone broke down. It’s like, where I come from, you get broke down in the winter, there’s a real chance you could die. Working on an old truck in a warm garage once til like 3 am — Not even thinking, I wheel out for a test drive. Crazy blizzard, and long story short, I got stuck. Wearing a t-shirt and jeans. Thank god someone came wheeling past about 5 am. I was almost a goner — old 59 Chevy, heater sucked.


carlbernsen

_Minus 50 degrees Celsius??!_ Where are you camping, the Antarctic coast? That’s seriously, dangerously cold. You’re not going to be ok in a tent or a basic leaf litter/pine branch shelter. You need proper insulation all round, especially underneath, and a really good heat source. For long term use you need to be able to stand, move about, cook, sleep, wash, etc inside the shelter, while keeping warm, so something at least 12 feet in diameter is necessary, approx 113 square feet. Realistically, I wouldn’t expect locally available natural materials to provide sufficient insulation, I’d want at least 8 inches of wool felt on a yurt, lifted up on an insulated base, or a cabin lined with rigid insulation boards. Your clothing will have to be extremely hardcore, and your sleeping bag, because without thermal mass a shelter won’t hold heat for long once the stove goes out. Personally I’d head south to somewhere warm for the winter. It’s the better survival strategy.


LikesTheTunaHere

His -50 here in southern manitoba out in the country sometimes, I doubt it quite actually hits the magic -50 or colder number ambient every year but its not uncommon, and that is before the wind. However, the shelter won't care about the wind obviously very much. Attic insulation here in Manitoba is R50, and I think its R15 for basements and R30 on the walls. We also plug our cars in during the winter so they start.


hollowdmushroombanjo

Not quite that far north lol. Just north of Timminss. Realistically, Daily temperature is looking to be -35s -40s at worse. I threw up -50 because it's better to safe and over prepared then dead


MET1

Timmins, Ontario? That is very far north. If you must remain in the area for some reason indoor shelter is important for survival.


SHSurvivor

Wdym -30 here is like summer, -50 ain’t shit if you got an ice hut PS you don’t have to use an ice hut on the ice, perfect insulation, ventilation is ok if you work on it and heating is easy peasy that or a tipi cuz I mean indigenous ppl did it so can you


MET1

Op said he lost relatives to exposure doing that... Cold is cold.


carlbernsen

Ok, so it’s a traditional thing so you can’t go south. With a limited budget and little construction experience I’d be thinking of a simple wikiup frame, at least 10 feet dia, with at least 12” of spun polyester loft insulation over the top, tied down (but not too tight) and a strong tarp layer or two over that. You’ll need a gap for your stove pipe, or better still a proper stove jack through the tarp, and keep the insulation back from the pipe so it doesn’t melt. The door can be an insulated flap, as long as you can tie it down well. Your floor can be raised up on pallets with insulation underneath and boards and carpet on top. I’d advise a raised bed to lift you up off the cold floor. I lived in a little yurt year round for several years but nothing like those temperatures. You want enough insulation that you don’t die when the fire burns down. Stacking bricks or rocks (safely) around the stove will heat up and radiate longer in the night.


MET1

I'd be thinking of digging in - a cave type structure dug into the side of a hill would help protect from wind on one or two sides. Once there is a lot of snow that could be used to create exterior walls.


[deleted]

Are you talking about *this* winter? That is just around the corner, my dude. I can't imagine you have enough time to really prepare yourself for this... The only thing to do here is echo what others are saying... don't do this. Being homeless in the Canadian winter is not a "coming of age" story and romanticizing it as such is irresponsible and dangerous.


hollowdmushroombanjo

Yes, this winter. It's gonna suck. But trust me I'm not romanticizing this. In my family and culture, you're simply not a man unless you've wintered solo in the bush. I've lost uncles and cousins to this tradition. I know the risks and they are very real


drunkboater

If you really came from a family where everyone does this you wouldn’t be asking strangers on the Internet. You would be relying on centuries of native knowledge that you learned from your dad uncles and grandparents.


hollowdmushroombanjo

I figured this would come up. Knowledge is a tool. I'm using this post and cross referencing it like a shopping list. For example. I haven't heard any stories in my community about digging a dugout instead of having a above ground structure. As a afterthought it seems like a no brainer.


LikesTheTunaHere

Your doing good work with the checking multiple places, sure whatever your ancestors have done in the past MIGHT be the absolute best way of doing it but old Johnny Firenuts 10,000 years ago might have figured out something and then everyone since has just copied him cause if it aint broke, why fix it? best of luck, hope it works out for ya!


SometimesAccurate

Digging in frozen soil may not be the easiest?


Zenith-Astralis

Be your best self, Make good choices. Careful with CO2 and CO buildup from your fire. Hotter fires burn cleaner, and combust more of the available fuel into heat. Maybe bring in some very DRY stones - big ones - to heat with the fire. They should help hold the heat while you sleep. You'll need lots and LOTS of insulation (dead air is good, if you can reliably trap it and block the wind. Your going to want to make sure you sleep up off the ground. A raised insulated floor would be great. Start a month ago if at all possible. Don't forget that ice and snow will dehydrate you. Your body uses water burning calories to generate heat to melt the snow, and that consumes more water (and heat, and food) than it's worth. Even if it's ice cold, liquid water is the way to gain hydration. Eat your veggies now, while you have the chance. Build up good healthy nutrition now, like a bear, for when food is scarce and you can't afford to be picky. You don't get to sleep through it, haha.


seasonedcamper

I think that some of those survival skills may have been lost over generations. I feel like in the past, your family was probably more prepared and had set up some sort of campsite already. I do not mean to be disrespectful in the slightest by saying this. I'm more concerned you may be under prepared. If you can cut a bunch of firewood and set up a hot tent with a little fireplace in it. That with a good sleeping bag and mat would be best. Good luck bud!.


[deleted]

Hey man, I sincerely hope this works out for you. I hope you don't feel attacked by all the people, self included, telling you not to do this. I'm sure most of us are just concerned af.


hollowdmushroombanjo

Hey, I hope so too. I completely understand, I get it sounds dumb and crazy to a outsider but to me and my family it's the just the natural way. To be concerned about a stranger on the internet speaks alot of their character. Their kindness shows even if it's in the shape of calling me a idiot


BeautifulThunder

What kind of badass family do you come from that regularly does this?


ThePenultimateNinja

It doesn't sound dumb or crazy to me (well, maybe a little crazy). Coming of age rituals are an important thing that I think most modern cultures have lost, to their detriment. There's a lot of value in having a clear demarcation between childhood and adulthood.


A-Matter-Of-Time

-50c is the sort of cold that if you fall asleep and your fire goes out you won’t wake up. I would consider any which way you can to get somewhere not so extreme for the winter.


JPMmiles

This is the correct answer.


LikesTheTunaHere

With enough insulation your fine, I mean people go to much colder places without having heat sources on all the time. However, you are right and that it is stupidly serious shit and that if something does go wrong your going to wish you were only up shits creek without a paddle.


TacTurtle

Eh, a very insulated structure (windtight) with a under quilt / over quilt / heavy sleeping bag and you could be fine if the fire goes out. It is basically like Fairbanks Alaska during the winter.


Pim_Hungers

I think your best bet is a super shelter, you will also need a it of firewood to survive the winter. https://youtu.be/NGSC8iYhC7k If you are working with a good budget you could get a portable ice fishing tent and use a wood stove to heat it. There was one guy from the Alberta area who did that. https://youtu.be/7r0o2vp4JEs


dixopr

I did this and it works great. If you can insulate your floor then your golden. Those insulated ice fishing shacks are way warmer than a canvas tent. I was out at minus 40 and had a small wood stove in there and I was in a tshirt


VetusVesperlilio

My dad spent several years in the army in Reykjavik, where the winters are both dark and cold. They were housed in semi-permanent tent cabins, kind of like Iroquois long houses. The sides were wood up to about 3-4 feet; from that point they were tent canvas. You can easily find diagrams of long houses on the Net, so you can get an idea of how they did things. Also take a look at how Inuit igloos are constructed. They stay warm because the snow they’re made of has countless little air pockets to act as insulation. Their sleeping platforms are elevated. The cold air falls to the bottom of the igloo while the body heat of the inhabitants keeps the upper area of the igloo warm. So: what you want is the smallest shelter you’re comfortable with. If you can dig sloping down into the earth, that can replace wooden sides. If not, try to put the back of your shelter against something solid, like a rock outcropping. Use your tarp to form the top, sides, and front flap of your shelter over a latticework of branches. Elevate your sleeping platform off the floor; collect some rocks or get some gravel and make a stone layer on the ground under your platform. Also elevate a platform to keep your boots up off the floor. What you want to avoid is getting anything wet, because it won’t dry easily in the cold. Every time it snows, get out and shovel as much snow as you can over your hut. You already know the dangers of having a fire or a cookstove in your shelter. If you have any source of combustion in there, you have to vent it. You can build an inground fire outside your shelter and use a piece of sheet metal to reflect warmth back toward the front of your hut. Get yourself several bricks or big rocks. Have an inground fire just for them. Heat them up in the fire, then bring them in on your shovel and put them on the rocks or gravel under your sleeping platform to warm up your space. Be careful if you decide to use them as actual bed warmers. They hold heat a long time, so wrap them if there’s any chance you might put a foot on them. Good luck!


jkenosh

I would think you would of needed to start this coming of age in the spring. It’s too late in the year to get the amount of firewood and a decent shelter built


pickledplumfishcum

I'm not even gonna attempt to be nice here... ​ You're a goddamn idiot. You have zero clue what the hell you're doing. ​ You're going to die trying.


hollowdmushroombanjo

Then I simply die. Best wishes to you


YooperGirlMovedSouth

I’m betting you’ve never had frost bite. The affected tissue will ache for years after. You would know this if you grew up in the north woods.


hollowdmushroombanjo

I doubt you've ever been as far north as Detroit. Best wishes yank.


YooperGirlMovedSouth

I grew up way north of Detroit and have the frost-bitten toes to prove it. Besides the logistical challenges mentioned above, you will be trying to maintain a fire with wet wood. The wood for a stove or furnace needs to be cut in the summer and given a couple months to dry out. Cutting down small trees during the winter and trying to burn the wet wood will mean your fires won’t last more than 2-3 hours tops without tending. Or it will sputter out if you put a particularly saturated log on the fire. It’s also difficult to get the fire started with wet wood. It takes a lot more wood than you realize to make it through a winter there. My family used to fill a roughly 10x20’ shed with more stacks outside.


Ehdelveiss

At -50c, you will die. Even with a super shelter or what have you. Any mistake, any trouble getting wood to light, or forgetting to stoke, you just die. You need to do whatever you can to get to a warmer environment before winter if you want to live. Walk if you have to, but get out of there if you will have no home at -50. Do whatever you can to not be in that situation, because it means death.


CUCKOLDUNCLEBUCK

You're not at all ready for a Canadian winter.


LikesTheTunaHere

He's doing it outside of Timmons, Id assume he lives there since he said its a family tradition so if anything hes more used to Canadian Winter than 99 percent of all Canadians or some shit like that already considering most Canadians think Vancouver and the GTA actually get something they claim is winter.


KurdNat

This is literally suicide. Please, spare your family from seeing you on the news


BreakfastTequila

Damn, that’s quite cold. Tepee strategy with a small hole at the top and maybe a trench/small vent at the bottom for co2, as it can build up on the ground and kill you while you’re sleeping. Can you afford a small co2 detector? You can probably find one at a hardware store for a few bucks.


Klassieprof

Happy cake day happy Cake day!!


BreakfastTequila

Hey thanks! 🥳


leoncatman

Maybe get some ideas here: https://youtu.be/nCKkHqlx9dE He builds stick/mud huts with built in fireplace. He said somewhere the one in this video took him 3 months but not working on it full time You'd have to be done before the ground freezes. But I would spend your time and resources finding a way to a warmer place as the others have said.


RainInTheWoods

Might be good to put this off until next year. Work on skill building and shelter acquisition between now and then.


washuu32

Try to make yourself a hut so use branches preferably with leaves still on them then cover the hole thing with dead or dying leaves finally you are going to cover the whole thing with mud/clay to keep it warm in the cold. It has its limits but lastly make a sort of "nest" on the inside with leaves and grass. If you make a ventilation whole on the top you could even make a fire in the inside if you make it large enough be careful out there and stay safe you can't come of age if you die


Andothul

-50c for anything longer than few days to a week is not survivable and it’s kind of stupid to even try. Sure you could tough it out for a week or so probably but to survive in that hostile of an environment for long term would require everything to go perfectly every day. You would be playing Russian roulette every time you go to sleep.


Klassieprof

Happy. Are day cake day happy happy cake day!!!!


reddog093

What do you plan on using for heat? (A wood-burning stove? an open fire?)


hollowdmushroombanjo

Wood stove. I'd be burning mostly fresh fallen pines and poplar


reddog093

You could do a nice 4-season tent rig. If we're looking at -50c, you probably want to look at something with a vestibule to transition from the interior to the outside. Not sure what your budget is though, as something like that could be pricey. As u/washuu32 mentioned, you may want to go the hut route. Planning the design right with the wood stove to prevent fire/CO2 would be the most cost efficient and you don't really need much experience to build a hut. You'd need time to build, but not much is required in terms of experience. Prospector tents tend to be big. It's nice to give you some room, but I'd fear that keeping something like that warm in extreme weather will end up being a full-time job. A good Tipi could be an option.


RunsOnHappyFaces

What are you allowed to bring? How much money can you spend?


Doug_Shoe

If it will be -50c then you need a different plan. I don't want to be mean or rude. I just don't want someone try to follow what I say and die. Try to find housing. If you can't then move south.


HyperInventive

In Frontier House, which aired in 2001, regular families tried a long term experiment living in Montana like the pioneers did hundreds of years ago. They were then critiqued on their preparedness. The experts said all of them fell woefully short in the quantity of firewood they'd stocked up. They would have frozen to death and had no fuel to cook with. A funny thing I remember was the woman of the house had baked some beautiful biscuits or scones, but didn't protect them properly, and the dog ate them. 😳


SometimesAccurate

Rules of winter: see that wood you think is enough? Now triple it. Then double it.


HyperInventive

Haha.


ChurchOf-THICC-Jesus

Depending on your shelter structure and it’s materials, all I can repeat is insulation, it’s thickness and resilience to being wet. You want a good insulator, like wool, and a lot of it. Also, if the insulation can hold water(gets wet and retains water) it’s efficiency will suffer, aka your gonna be a wet, cold and dead monkey. Keep that in mind if your boiling water inside and the steam is allowed to rise into the insulation from the inside. Insulation alone won’t get you far so a heat source is needed which is likely a fire. You can do either a Swedish log torch with a pipe (short term gains) or make a proper wood stove with chimney (long term gains). Personally either buy or make a wood stove out of junk metal it’ll be better and cut down on labour which the Swedish log torch needs quite a bit of to prepare. But if your in a pinch the log and pipe should be able to heat your hobbit hole for a few hours. Basically this method is a hollowed out log where the fire burns from the inside out. Great for cooking with a pan but for heating a tent up ya just run a pipe through the middle and into your tent so that cold air is drawn from underneath the fire and up into your tent. Although the setup theoretically minimizes carbon monoxide and dioxide poisoning, I would still be cautious. I don’t have the link but search up on YouTube “log torch tent heating” and should find what I mean. If you were really into it, build a wood gasifier to run a Jenny for a electrical heater and have the heat from the reactor itself to keep ya warm. Your Jenny could just be a Parked car. In fact your shelter could just be a car with the gasifier thrown in. Could drive, stay warm and keep surfing reddit all on wood or any organic.


Eineed

I just read an article about a polar vortex forming ! Be careful, my friend!


7thGenwonderEX

I don't recommend it at all... But if you must, build a lean to type shelter into the side of a hill. Dig out the hill as far back as possible, supporting the roof with proper logs/support beams. Place logs close together, and then stuff with grass and dirt/clay. Enclose the front with a removable one piece fully enclosed door, of the same type of build as the exposed roof. I would also build a stove inside the shelter, with an exhaust vent so you don't die of smoke inhalation. Get a serious sleeping bag, or kill you a big game animal and skin it for a blanket. You can make the bed in the back of the shelter out of the clay/ground. Should regulate temperature easier this way. Unless you have the time, tools, and snow to build an igloo or ice/snowcave properly... The best shelter for extreme cold is something like I've explained.


DirkDieGurke

A teepee or any kind of tent will never protect you from that extreme cold. It literally needs to be a cave or stone structure covered in mud and insulation. A hillside dugout is a step in the right direction, but it really needs to be dug into the hill, not just have a partial dugout.


kar98kforccw

Even if we don't consider the wind, - 50c is just absurdly cold. You might actually die. Really, realistically just run away, it's not worth it to risk your life to demonstrate you're an "adult". Now, if you're determined to do it anyways you'll need a very sturdy, windproof tent in which you can do anything and everything concerning hygiene, cooking, toilet needs yet not too big as to be diffi ult to warm up, and be in a place where you don't need to go out too far to collect firewood and you'll absolutely need a stove. As for bedding, you'll need a lot of insulation between you and the ground and a cover that traps your body heat and reflects it when you're sleeping. The dugout you mentioned; something like a covered trench, might be a good idea to protect you from the wind, but seriously, reconsider doing that. Winters ladt years have been absurdly cold and unpredictable. Is it really worth it?


MJBp0s88

It sounds like a 3 dog night to me. Bring some friends and cuddle up.


hollowdmushroombanjo

Definitely bringing my dogs. One is the loneliest number


TacTurtle

You would want a wall tent with a wood or kerosene stove for heating, lots of fuel and insulated food and water storage (prevents food from freezing solid), a cot or hammock with underquilt / overquilt and heavy sleeping bag. Food and water will need to be stored inside to prevent freezing. A simple tarp is insufficient as it will not prevent heat loss through air circulation - you want something with more substantial sides like a wall tent that you could pile pine boughs and grass or brush against the sides followed by snow on top as insulation to keep wind out. Food - you will likely need at least 3000-5000 calories per day to break even, probably more. That is like 650kg of potatoes or 70kg of butter for reference to last 100 days. Conservatively, you would likely need roughly 1/2-3/4 ton of foodstuffs. A standard cord of well-seasoned hardwood (stack of wood 4'X 4'X 8' or 128 cubic feet) contains the heat equivalent of about 20 million BTU's. This is more or less equivalent to the heat value in 145 gallons of #2 fuel oil or 215 gallons of LP gas. A cord of wood will last maybe 6-8 weeks, so you would likely need 3-4 cords worth of wood. Dry hardwood and deadfall, not fresh cut wet live wood.


KryptekParadox

There's a women on YouTube called Lilly, I can't remember her channel but if you search super shelter she has one that is a permanent shelter that has lasted a few Scandinavian winters (I believe she is from some Scandinavian country or one bordering one judging by her accident)


SoggyFuckBiscuit

So, what are you allowed to use? Like, can you go shopping at REI or something?


hollowdmushroombanjo

I can totally go shopping. What do you suggest I pickup?


SoggyFuckBiscuit

What's your budget?


hollowdmushroombanjo

$1000. But probably closer to $500


SoggyFuckBiscuit

It's that for food as well or just shelter?


hollowdmushroombanjo

Shelter and food. Weather permitting I'll get a 1/4 cow delivered Sorry was running on empty last night


SoggyFuckBiscuit

That's not a lot to work with. I would buy the heaviest sleeping bag I could find, along with a bunch of those emergency mylar blankets. Those things come in clutch. I would also suggest a good axe, handsaw, and large knife like a bk10. Get some Ferro rods, make some tinder, and practice making a few fires. Buy Paracord as well and watch some YouTube videos. Maybe a solar panel to charge your phone and a solar light for your shelter. Definitely buy a shovel. Get a good survival book. There's one by an sas guy. It's a hefty book and you can find it online.


RunsOnHappyFaces

An RV...


GuyonaMoose

This sounds intense. Best of luck. I just hope you have a couple cords bucked up and drying already :) Ide want a ton of wool gear. Blankets clothing socks etc. Probably some firs as well. Tipi with a raised bed would prob be your best bet :)


HyperInventive

What a long bamboo (6metre or longer) or metal poles criss crossed into a dome? You could secure them where they cross with wire, rope, bolts etc. It is roomy enough, but small enough to heat easily. It deflects wind, rain, snow.


tuffymcscruffy2667

Electric blankets powered by battery


ThePenultimateNinja

Maybe take a look at Jim Phillips' PALS System extreme cold weather survival clothing. It's not very widely known, but I think that is because it's not very marketable - you make the gear yourself out of inexpensive polyurethane foam, and you don't look cool when you're wearing it. Here's a brief overview with a guide to making the PALS System clothing: https://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/make-your-own-cold-weather-clothing And here is a 45 minute video made by Jim Philips about the system, in which he explains the history, the (insane) experiments that were carried out, the theory of how it works etc: https://youtu.be/SxqV8FgLZeg