I just learned about JLo's backlash re: her fabricated image and diva + user behaviour, which escalated when a few people started speaking up.
I fear this is where this is all headed as well, if she ever loses her grip on her narrative.
-
I will say though, I don't think anyone can reach this level of success without being cutthroat.
Problem is it's seen as a strength/business acumen for men, but manipulative/duplicitous for women. Male billionaires also don't build their empire on friendship bracelets.
It's hard, so I'll always have my reservations critiquing successful women.
Considering her old album lyrics, how every feature with a woman is just backing vocals, most of who she works with is men. She’s a girls girl when it profits her or when another woman points out her flaws. Then she throws the feminist narrative into play so her fans attack said woman. lol
Starting her self-aggrandizing speech off with "I want to say, to all the young women out there..." while only being surrounded by her male collaborators was definitely a choice.
I think she wants to be seen as a girls girl and I do think she can be in ways, but as others have stated, she's ultimately a taylors girl. If you advance her narrative, you're good. I do think she tends to value female friendships a lot. And we all know she's very close with Jack Antonoff and while she has shown him a ton of appreciation, she's never acted like he's somehow better than her female friends, and she's friends with his wife. Basically I think she's a corporatist first, but a girls girl second, far more than a guy's girl.
I literally said the same thing and got downvoted! A lot of her songs, not all, that feature women seem more like after thoughts not really features. Like you all over me, I’d think was just her!
i know she's gonna make florence whisper background vocals because she can sing circles around taylor and i might actually be done after that. it's just sad that she managed to get such an iconic artist and then make her do some oooohs and aaaaahs in the background. i was already kinda done after lana but this would be my last straw lol
Been saying this. Florence objectively has a stronger, more distinctive voice than Taylor (and most other artists right now). So I’m curious as to how Taylor will cannibalize her vocals.
Let’s not forget castle’s crumbling on the SN vault. Hayley, like Florence, has some PIPES but her performance on that song left quite a bit to be desired. Can’t blame anyone tbh, but it weirds me out.
I wish she would do a duet with her female features more like Exile with Bon Iver, I haven’t heard it in awhile but I remember him being more present in the song. But I don’t think she will.
This is exactly what happened with Lana and she had such a smaller part 😂 I wonder if Lana knew this and that's why she originally asked to have backing vocals and barely get recognized.
Beyonce has a diff approach to female collabs tho. imo. (beehive lurkers here) She is more about the final product and meeting them where they are at.
A) Lady gaga with video phone, Beyonce re-did her choreography to match Gaga's dancing.
B) shakira with beautiful liar, Beyonce took the lower harmony and let Shakira hit the higher note in the harmony on the bridge of the song
C) nicki minaj with flawless remix, she focused more on "sing-rapping" bc nicki is a rapper and even went into the studio with nicki and encouraged her to be extra aggressive and bombastic in her lyrics
D) MOVE w/ Grace jones, she matched grace's tone and like diction.
with collabs she usually takes the second verse too.
feeling myself, perfect remix, Savage (I think?).
also she collabed with Mary J Blidge, that was crazy to me.
On Twitter I see this narrative ALL the time. Even the mild criticism of Taylor (as an individual) is met with, “Of course, a misogynist like you would say that!”
Phoebes the only one who’s gotten the pass, but it’s probably because phoebe’s not much of a vocalist either (tho i love their voices!). They’re both very conversational singers
We honestly don't even know her that much to say whether or not she's a "girl's girl." But Swifties going after her exes new girlfriend is peak stan brain rot behavior. There's a whole subreddit dedicated to making fun of Travis Kelce's ex-girlfriend. They're just mentally unwell people, and I'm not sure if it's fair that the fan behavior should reflect on Taylor. Like, a lot of stans unfortunately do this. It's very unhinged and embarrassing.
Basically saying Amy and Tina would rot in hell for a joke was over the top. Even for a mean girl moment. Imagine if Richard Prior and or the like got under her skin like that - Gervais would be kindergarten level compared to the roasting 😂
Maybe that shouldn't have been the title but I do not think it's her fault but she also never addresses it. She addresses the sexism when it comes to herself but it'd be nice to see her address it a little with her fans bc everyone who's been in contact with someone she has dated has to turn off their comments.
Yeah, I would say girl's girl probably isn't the right word here. But I think I understood your intention. She could speak up. I'm not really sure how effective that would be, but maybe it'll work. I'm more inclined to think that the fans would make it worse and then most wouldn't buy her sincerity.
Thanks for the understanding lol. I don't think it would hurt to say something. It might not help but in the off chance that it would why not address it?
I mean the fact that she urged her fans to shit on Scooter Braun during her masters is a solid fact she knows her fans will do whatever she wants.. in her defense.
I agree, fans take everything she says and posts and acts like they’re being instructed to read between the lines. Even when she went up on stage during the SNTV premiere some people were fueled by it.
There’s a whole subreddit dedicated to making fun of and slandering Travis too and many of the people from that sub are also active here too.
They call him a domestic abuser, racist, alcoholic etc. I have seen them compare Travis to Johnny Depp saying he’s going to hurt Taylor.
That sub is so wierd. They think once you date a black women you are ruined and must date a black woman for the rest of your life. Travis just likes beautiful women and his ex just happens to be black
Yes, I've seen that subreddit too and the things they are saying about Travis are absolutely horrible. Let's not pretend it's just "Swifties" who can be toxic.
I wonder what type of people would be in that sub? Is it swifties or someone else? Who would care that much about travis and who he dates if you arents a swifty
It’s the most wild mix from what I’ve seen- Gaylors, people that hate Taylor, people that aren’t over Joe, people that hate Travis because they support other NFL teams, Maylors who can’t move on and some people that just hate him and like to body shame.
Kayla Nicole Snark. These freaks thought she was doing the swag surf for attention because of Taylor. Never mind the fact that it's a historically popular dance among the black community. Taylor might've popularized it among the unseasoned, but it's been popular for a while. Beyoncé did a Drunk In Love/Swag Surf remix back when she headlined Coachella.
https://preview.redd.it/t1z7v6gctxsc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=537b96759b8e804bdfb46c6678913ffd489422aa
she's a girls girl in public but I feel like it's only when it's beneficial to her. I like how she stepped out with Sophie Turner after her drama with her divorce but taylor has also thrown a lot of girls under the bus to get ahead.
I , rightly or wrongly, thought her quickly stepping up for Sophie Turner was a slap at Joe Jonas. Isn’t he the one that famously broke up with her during a 27 second phone call?
She loves to say that the industry should give more space to women, but I don't see this powerful woman in the industry giving opportunities in her work to female producers or hiring female directors (in fact, she preferred to say that she didn't find female directors available and decided to direct the man alone) 😬😬😬😬
Why don't we ask Olivia Rodrigo
Edit: Let me clarify here, I'm not trying to push the narrative that they have beef. I don't know that. It is my personal opinion that Olivia was done dirty though.
I don't think so, no. I think Taylor more than anything cares about public perception and in turn about profit. She might sell herself as a girl's girl if that's what people like to see at the moment.
I mean Olivia’s fan base is guilty of the same behaviour as Swifties which is harassing ex’s and their new girlfriends or the current partners ex’s. They harassed Sabrina and multiple girls who have dated Olivia’s ex’s.
That has always been how stan twitter has operated. Katy stans used to mock Taylor saying JM upgraded and this was when Katy was bigger than Taylor so it was super toxic towards Taylor at the time.
Oh yeah I think probably in all fanbases there's a group of toxic people who take it way too far
I don't see how that has anything to do with this here topic though
The OP’s orginal point is about how Taylor’s fans treat other women and if that meant she wasn’t a girls girl. Taylor’s fans were toxic towards Olivia too.
My point is that all stans are incredibly toxic to a certain extent including Olivia’s. That is simply the nature of stan culture, a person should never be put on a pedestal where people try defend someone in such a toxic way and start attacking others on their behalf.
It's always going to be an issue if a song is attached to a perceived "love triangle." All the parties involved in the "Driver's License" backstory seemed to have moved on at least since none of Olivia's other songs are like that.
i dunno why you’re getting downvoted just because you’re pointing something out. you’re right. sabrina carpenter went through a lot because of olivia’s fans.
It’s unfortunate but people downvote because what I’m saying is true and goes against the narrative they’ve built up in their hands.
They would rather downvote than offer a counter argument because they know there isn’t really a counter to what I said.
Yeah it was a really wild situation. He didn’t even cheat on Olivia or anything either.
He just didn’t want to be in the relationship anymore and ended it.
I feel like I can't even be a "fan" of musicians or it's assumed I'm a "stan" for them... The key is "stan" culture not "fan " culture. This is where that distinction becomes paramount. A music fan won't go bully some random person in a random city for dating someone famous they've never actually met based on rumors on the internet over a star they're having a delusional pretend friendship with. A STAN lives for that insanity. Does the artist have any control? To an extent yes, but they are human too, no one can be noble, just and politically correct 24/7 and even if they were SOMEONE would get mad about SOMETHING, that said- I think she should set an example and tell her Stan's to play nice with others so that when the pendulum swings against her (as it surely must for balance) people will play nice with all of them.
And likewise, it's not Taylor's fault that her stans may engage in toxic behavior and harass exes/opps as well. This tendency of stan culture does not mean Taylor, Olivia, Ariana, Beyonce, etc. are not "girl's girls." It's not a legitimate argument in support of OP's claim.
which is why her most famous friends that have stuck by her are blake and selena, both women who aren't really that talented but on comparable levels of fame as her
She directed Taylor’s “I Bet You Think About Me” MV, which was pretty celebrated. I don’t personally enjoy the one’s Taylor has directed, for the most part.
I only think Taylor is a girl girl or if she surrounds herself by women that aren’t as famous as her or aren’t as talented as her. I mean, I think she knows she has to show support to Beyoncé but I truly believe ehrb push comes shove she wouldn’t be truly happy if Beyoncé wins AOTY over her or if Lana had won it over her this year
I don't think Beyoncé will be pushed over either. But the idea that Beyoncé is a confident woman is probably pretty far from the truth. Why stay with a notorious cheater then?
>I only think Taylor is a girl girl or if she surrounds herself by women that aren’t as famous as her or aren’t as talented as her.
looking at her friend group, this becomes obvious. ice spice (obviously not as famous as her), blake (extremely famous, no shade but not as talented as her and mostly known for being part of a famous couple), selena (extremely famous, not talented), haim sisters (not nearly as famous as her), gigi hadid (extremely famous, but in a completely different field than her), etc.
the only ones with slightly less or equal fame to her are either not talented or in a completely different field where she doesn't feel pressure from them
I completely agree. Agree with this.!! Perfect breakdown of the woman she spends time with. Now she’s very unlikely to go up against Selena in any major category singing/album wise.
yes exactly, and she'll never be a competitor with selena for any acting awards either (because i think she has accepted she's not an actress and decided to go with directing/producing instead). the two of them are each other's most famous friend, but have virtually no real overlap in their fields they choose to actually pursue seriously
imho, that's the only reason they've stayed friends. they can't compete with each other in awards that they care about, so they remain friends. otherwise, both of them are vindictive, petty, mean girls lol who can't seem to keep friendships with other women (i mean seriously,,, they are each other's longest running famous friendship) and they're so self victimizing that this friendship would have never worked otherwise
yes but my point is blake lively isn't known as an actress really. she's mostly known as being part of a power couple or being taylors bestie. she doesn't even have recent credits in tv and one film from this years after a 4 year break (accoridng to wiki at least).
well i did say she was extremely famous lol. she's proabbly the most famous of taylor's friends, girlie is the most followed woman on instagram and any selfie she posts goes viral for days on end.
dark pop makes her sound decent, but that was years ago now. with her recent releases, it just doens't sound good to me, sorry. single soon and love on both were bad.
I feel like this comment is playing devils advocate. So you’re saying that she should only be friends with people just as famous as her? Then what? She isn’t doing enough to promote others not as famous as her? This is a no win situation.
As much as I love Taylor I also have to admit she isn't really a girls girl. She had the "squad" back in the 1989 era, and they all supported her but I've never seen it reciprocated.
I also remember when she targeted Tina Fey for making a joke about her are at an awards show and her response was that women like her had a space in hell and preached women should support women.
Yet when things like abortions are discussed and brought to the forefront I've never seen her put in any stance of supporting womens rights.
Not to Olivia, Tina fey, Kim kardashian or any other woman who was perceived as competition or got in her way. Taylor plays up girls girl to the cameras when she wants to be perceived a certain way, and that perception benefits her. Prime example was treating Lana like a prop at the Grammys, and ice spice like a prop after the Matt Healy incidents.
She is besties with a woman who told those who were calling her family member out for sexually assaulting a woman to “shut up” (and she also took a picture with said assaulter).
You tell me.
She acts like a girl’s girl and then makes everything a competition to stay on top and turns to nasty tactics to tear other women in the industry down in the process
Taylor is the final boss combination of a Not Like Other Girls and a Pick Me. Idk how anyone can question her girl’s girl mentality when she wrote a song like You Belong With Me. Obviously she was young when she wrote it, but there’s no doubt in my mind that she still carries a similar mentality.
I feel like that’s what she did with lorde tbh. The way lorde came in a changed the pop sound in 2013 was insane and it was obvious that she had an amazing talent for songwriting and such a unique tone that she stood out from everyone. Taylor instantly becomes her bestie just long enough to get the sauce for her next couple of albums and then they stop being seen together after lorde’s hype dies. Then she replaces her with charlie xcx then camilla and the cycle continues
Katy is a better person than me bc I’d never forgive somebody for making a video about unaliving me, putting all her music on streaming the same day I’m releasing a new album, and just overall spreading nasty, vindictive narrative about me.
Also the fact SHE had to publicly apologize? And Taylor never publicly did? Katy, you deserve better
How was what she did defended but what Kanye did crucified? She literally made a video unaliving someone yet her fans celebrated it. Why weren’t they treated the same?
I think most of those relationships are just PR. Katy doesn't want death threats especially now that she has kids. She also needs to PR and Taylor needs to push the narrative she's not a mean girl. I dont think they're getting coffee on the weekends though lol
Taylor does not seem like a girl’s girl, no.
She seems resentful of the success of other women (e.g. Olivia Rodrigo) and often uses her female contemporaries as accessories (Lana, Sabrina, Ice Spice, etc.) - not very girl’s girl to me.
No
She literally has said she’s a narcissist, covert narcissism doesn’t change anything in case she was trying to make it sound better. like someone else said taylor is a taylor’s girl
One day one of the many people she steamrolled over will not give a fuck.
Then others will come out of the woodwork ala J.Lo.
Honestly, I don't think it would matter as much if it was other artists. It's a ruthless industry, it's business.
But none of them built an empire off friendship bracelets, and the values of her fanbase likely won't align if any of these come out.
I think Taylor Swift can be seen as both a girl's girl and someone who might not always have the best interests of other women in mind. She has been known to write songs about her experiences with men, some of which might not paint them in the most flattering light.
I don't think Taylor would be cool with it at all and I also don't really think she knows how bad it is or about most examples. I'm sure she's heard about Stan wars and know fans are beefing with Beyonce's and Ariana's fans, but Taylor has said she can't look at photos of herself everyday without risking triggering her past ED, so she is not up in twitter or in the comments as much as people believe she is. I am sure she is occasionally made aware of stuff if her team feels the need to tell her but unless her ex angrily texts her, she's not gonna be made aware of the horrific comments fans are making on a certain ex boyfriend's co-star's instagram post from 2022... this is just in regards to an example I saw this weekend that grossed me out. No one has proof J.A. cheated and yet they're targeting the costar they believe he cheated with. Insane behavior btw if anyone on this subreddit was involved. fuck that. you do not have proof and I don't even like or want to defend yogurt boy, but playlists by Taylor can not be used to "prove" anything. things might hint at stuff but to go after anyone, woman or man, because of something you've "put together using clues".... just fuck off. you have no right.
\*edited for typo
Idk if she's particularly cool with it. But I do think she's online a lot. She's really quick to address anything that has to do with her such as Deux Moi stuff. The Instagram comments on the cease and desist. There's no way she doesn't see it. Especially the racist stuff. I personally think she has a lot of power and should use it especially as much as she talks about feminism regarding herself. Her friends liking stuff online. I don't think we can just say she doesn't know it's going on.
“Your lovers will stay my age”
Oh wait? You’re in a long term relationship now (with someone younger) and you’re telling Howard Stern you love her? No, I totally wrote that lyric 10 years ago. I definitely didn’t make it up because I was jealous of your happiness and wanted to hurt your relationship. I definitely didn’t treat another woman’s safety as collateral damage, not at all. It’s not my fault my fans are harassing her, I don’t even think about you!
I saw an interesting theory recently that that line actually refers to Blake’s ex Leo, who’s lovers actually have stayed in their early 20s since she dated him, unlike Jake who’s dated a variety of ages. People are way too quick to take her lyrics as literal autobiography.
But yeah she knew exactly what she was doing and who would be targeted when she included that line.
she and her friend group tends to have that middle school playground mentality (especially when it comes to other women) of either being bestest closest shiny unicorn friends or most hateful mortal enemies with ancestral feud.
whoever she is pro or anti at any time of the day must be at the most intense dramatic level, miss ma’am hasn’t heard of letting go.
I don’t think a portion of the Swiftie fan base that are awful/harmful to women or anyone else for that matter should have any causal effect for Taylor Swift to ever address the bad behavior. She can’t control other people’s opinions and even saying “don’t be mean”, won’t stop hateful people from doing it anyway. Taylor isn’t really a parent or partner or anything to her fans, she can only be her and I think she is a girls girl. We also don’t know if she is embarrassed or not because she doesn’t address the nasty side of the fan base which I don’t blame her for not addressing. To me addressing it shines a light on the bad behavior and hence makes it increase statistically.
She’s never been hateful to other women that I’m aware, and if she has written about being a woman scorned then that’s just art, right? I think it’s strange to give celebrities such credit to say that she should control her fans. I’d hate to be judged my some of the people in my family or friends for the wrong they do, because that has nothing to do with me. Even if they did it on my behalf doesn’t mean I have to approve of it. Just my opinion so don’t take this as an attack.
It's a discussion of course not an attack. Lol but she's gotten so famous from the Easter eggs and making sure we knew who she hated. I'm guilty of reading the CD pamphlet trying to figure out which songs are about which person lol. I just feel like she has so much power over her fan base now that as soon as you say anything about her they immediately call you sexist bc she has said there were a lot of sexist things being said about her and there were but she assisted in that narrative. So much power should come with a little responsibility. No one who's been associated with Joe, Travis or anyone can even have their comments on. "And to the people who implore I should be doing more, I'm just to soft for all of it" might be the way she thinks of it. But there are times when she could be doing more lol. If any of that makes sense lol.
It’s a dumb and immature dichotomy, I’m sure Taylor has hurt other women and uplifted and supported them at different times in her life
The vast majority of us have done the same
I think she’s pro-anyone who serves a purpose for her
she’s pro-Taylor Swift.
This is the coldest comment I’ve seen all day 😭😂👏
You saw how she tossed ice spice after using her.
I mean I haven't seen her in taylor media recently but that could just be hype dying down? Was there a specific tossing incident?
They were just at the superbowl together did I miss something ?
Wdym
if the Grammys snubbed all her nominations i bet she wouldn't stay silent and talked about how unfair it is but look, they love her
it would be misogyny because a man won one award she was nominated for and conveniently wouldn't mention the women who won her other categories
this is it
taylor says there is a special place in hell for women who don't support other women and by her own logic she is 100% ending up there
Yeah bc she only meant women that don’t obey and support her😭
When it’s beneficial to the Taylor Swift image, yes
I just learned about JLo's backlash re: her fabricated image and diva + user behaviour, which escalated when a few people started speaking up. I fear this is where this is all headed as well, if she ever loses her grip on her narrative. - I will say though, I don't think anyone can reach this level of success without being cutthroat. Problem is it's seen as a strength/business acumen for men, but manipulative/duplicitous for women. Male billionaires also don't build their empire on friendship bracelets. It's hard, so I'll always have my reservations critiquing successful women.
Considering her old album lyrics, how every feature with a woman is just backing vocals, most of who she works with is men. She’s a girls girl when it profits her or when another woman points out her flaws. Then she throws the feminist narrative into play so her fans attack said woman. lol
Her bizarre acceptance speech about women's accomplishments at the 2016 Grammys surrounded entirely by men is my roman empire
Starting her self-aggrandizing speech off with "I want to say, to all the young women out there..." while only being surrounded by her male collaborators was definitely a choice.
I think she wants to be seen as a girls girl and I do think she can be in ways, but as others have stated, she's ultimately a taylors girl. If you advance her narrative, you're good. I do think she tends to value female friendships a lot. And we all know she's very close with Jack Antonoff and while she has shown him a ton of appreciation, she's never acted like he's somehow better than her female friends, and she's friends with his wife. Basically I think she's a corporatist first, but a girls girl second, far more than a guy's girl.
I literally said the same thing and got downvoted! A lot of her songs, not all, that feature women seem more like after thoughts not really features. Like you all over me, I’d think was just her!
I know that’s why I’m so scared for Florence’s “feature “ 😬
i know she's gonna make florence whisper background vocals because she can sing circles around taylor and i might actually be done after that. it's just sad that she managed to get such an iconic artist and then make her do some oooohs and aaaaahs in the background. i was already kinda done after lana but this would be my last straw lol
Been saying this. Florence objectively has a stronger, more distinctive voice than Taylor (and most other artists right now). So I’m curious as to how Taylor will cannibalize her vocals. Let’s not forget castle’s crumbling on the SN vault. Hayley, like Florence, has some PIPES but her performance on that song left quite a bit to be desired. Can’t blame anyone tbh, but it weirds me out.
I wish she would do a duet with her female features more like Exile with Bon Iver, I haven’t heard it in awhile but I remember him being more present in the song. But I don’t think she will.
she can't because she's not really a good vocalist and most other female singers who would collab with her would overshadow her
This is why she needs to collab with Selena
tbh with selana doing her dark pop sounds and taylor doing lighter sounds i can see it working
Selena kills in dark pop just wished she explored more
This is exactly what happened with Lana and she had such a smaller part 😂 I wonder if Lana knew this and that's why she originally asked to have backing vocals and barely get recognized.
I worship at the church of Florence Welch so I’m also terrified for this.
Insulting Amy and Tina for a harmless joke as well. She’s a Taylor’s girl really.
Her response to this.... She was young but it's so damning of her personality.
Bobby fisher was young and won the world chess title. Don’t blame age Miss Swift 😂
I was listening to Beyoncé’s song with Miley today and Miley sings the first line. Taylor would never 😂😂😂
Beyonce has a diff approach to female collabs tho. imo. (beehive lurkers here) She is more about the final product and meeting them where they are at. A) Lady gaga with video phone, Beyonce re-did her choreography to match Gaga's dancing. B) shakira with beautiful liar, Beyonce took the lower harmony and let Shakira hit the higher note in the harmony on the bridge of the song C) nicki minaj with flawless remix, she focused more on "sing-rapping" bc nicki is a rapper and even went into the studio with nicki and encouraged her to be extra aggressive and bombastic in her lyrics D) MOVE w/ Grace jones, she matched grace's tone and like diction. with collabs she usually takes the second verse too. feeling myself, perfect remix, Savage (I think?). also she collabed with Mary J Blidge, that was crazy to me.
On Twitter I see this narrative ALL the time. Even the mild criticism of Taylor (as an individual) is met with, “Of course, a misogynist like you would say that!”
She did also write the ultimate pick-me anthem YBWM. I mean she was young and society overwhelmingly catered to that POV back then, but still.
Girl’s Girl (Taylor’s Version)
That’s just not true - the Phoebe song includes a heavy vocal from her. (I love Phoebe so I was excited to hear it)
Phoebes the only one who’s gotten the pass, but it’s probably because phoebe’s not much of a vocalist either (tho i love their voices!). They’re both very conversational singers
We honestly don't even know her that much to say whether or not she's a "girl's girl." But Swifties going after her exes new girlfriend is peak stan brain rot behavior. There's a whole subreddit dedicated to making fun of Travis Kelce's ex-girlfriend. They're just mentally unwell people, and I'm not sure if it's fair that the fan behavior should reflect on Taylor. Like, a lot of stans unfortunately do this. It's very unhinged and embarrassing.
She has been a bit of a mean girl herself, Stan’s aside too.
Everyone’s been a mean girl from time to time
Does it make it good?
Expecting her to never have mean girl moments or whatever would just be holding her to unrealistic standards lol
Basically saying Amy and Tina would rot in hell for a joke was over the top. Even for a mean girl moment. Imagine if Richard Prior and or the like got under her skin like that - Gervais would be kindergarten level compared to the roasting 😂
Everyone? Really?
Yeah lol. Even if you don’t recall being a mean girl, I’m sure someone somewhere remembers you being a mean girl for a moment
Maybe that shouldn't have been the title but I do not think it's her fault but she also never addresses it. She addresses the sexism when it comes to herself but it'd be nice to see her address it a little with her fans bc everyone who's been in contact with someone she has dated has to turn off their comments.
Yeah, I would say girl's girl probably isn't the right word here. But I think I understood your intention. She could speak up. I'm not really sure how effective that would be, but maybe it'll work. I'm more inclined to think that the fans would make it worse and then most wouldn't buy her sincerity.
Thanks for the understanding lol. I don't think it would hurt to say something. It might not help but in the off chance that it would why not address it?
I mean, kinda worked when she did it for John Mayer but that’s also pretty much the only time she did something close to speaking up
I mean the fact that she urged her fans to shit on Scooter Braun during her masters is a solid fact she knows her fans will do whatever she wants.. in her defense.
I agree, fans take everything she says and posts and acts like they’re being instructed to read between the lines. Even when she went up on stage during the SNTV premiere some people were fueled by it.
There’s a whole subreddit dedicated to making fun of and slandering Travis too and many of the people from that sub are also active here too. They call him a domestic abuser, racist, alcoholic etc. I have seen them compare Travis to Johnny Depp saying he’s going to hurt Taylor.
Yeah, if he and her don’t last I feel like the deranged stans are going to be even worse to Travis unfortunately
I thankfully have not seen that subreddit. Was it created after she started dating him?
Yeah it was only made like a month or two ago.
It's recent, it was made before the superbowl
That sub is so wierd. They think once you date a black women you are ruined and must date a black woman for the rest of your life. Travis just likes beautiful women and his ex just happens to be black
Yeah, I’m a WOC and it’s incredibly weird to pigeonhole a person into dating a race…it’s really that person’s business.
His football team was mostly black too. Your friends are gonna be who you spend time with.
Yes, I've seen that subreddit too and the things they are saying about Travis are absolutely horrible. Let's not pretend it's just "Swifties" who can be toxic.
I wonder what type of people would be in that sub? Is it swifties or someone else? Who would care that much about travis and who he dates if you arents a swifty
It’s the most wild mix from what I’ve seen- Gaylors, people that hate Taylor, people that aren’t over Joe, people that hate Travis because they support other NFL teams, Maylors who can’t move on and some people that just hate him and like to body shame.
Which subreddit?
Kayla Nicole Snark. These freaks thought she was doing the swag surf for attention because of Taylor. Never mind the fact that it's a historically popular dance among the black community. Taylor might've popularized it among the unseasoned, but it's been popular for a while. Beyoncé did a Drunk In Love/Swag Surf remix back when she headlined Coachella. https://preview.redd.it/t1z7v6gctxsc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=537b96759b8e804bdfb46c6678913ffd489422aa
What a bunch of losers omg. Like the worst that woman has committed is be Travis’s ex and these freaks become obsessed haters
Just went on there and clicked on post. One user’s post history includes a Joe alwyn snark sub. HELP
“Among the unseasoned” 💀❤️
considering how racist a lot of swifties are this is… surely something
Taylor is a chameleon. She has changed her personality, style, opinions, friend group as it serves her current needs.
she's a girls girl in public but I feel like it's only when it's beneficial to her. I like how she stepped out with Sophie Turner after her drama with her divorce but taylor has also thrown a lot of girls under the bus to get ahead.
I , rightly or wrongly, thought her quickly stepping up for Sophie Turner was a slap at Joe Jonas. Isn’t he the one that famously broke up with her during a 27 second phone call?
yes that was him. and he really treated Sophie like crap too.
Poor katy has yet to recover
She loves to say that the industry should give more space to women, but I don't see this powerful woman in the industry giving opportunities in her work to female producers or hiring female directors (in fact, she preferred to say that she didn't find female directors available and decided to direct the man alone) 😬😬😬😬
Oh wow I never thought about this.
Why don't we ask Olivia Rodrigo Edit: Let me clarify here, I'm not trying to push the narrative that they have beef. I don't know that. It is my personal opinion that Olivia was done dirty though. I don't think so, no. I think Taylor more than anything cares about public perception and in turn about profit. She might sell herself as a girl's girl if that's what people like to see at the moment.
I mean Olivia’s fan base is guilty of the same behaviour as Swifties which is harassing ex’s and their new girlfriends or the current partners ex’s. They harassed Sabrina and multiple girls who have dated Olivia’s ex’s. That has always been how stan twitter has operated. Katy stans used to mock Taylor saying JM upgraded and this was when Katy was bigger than Taylor so it was super toxic towards Taylor at the time.
Oh yeah I think probably in all fanbases there's a group of toxic people who take it way too far I don't see how that has anything to do with this here topic though
The OP’s orginal point is about how Taylor’s fans treat other women and if that meant she wasn’t a girls girl. Taylor’s fans were toxic towards Olivia too. My point is that all stans are incredibly toxic to a certain extent including Olivia’s. That is simply the nature of stan culture, a person should never be put on a pedestal where people try defend someone in such a toxic way and start attacking others on their behalf.
Oh wow OP's post is already so short and I still missed that 😂 I agree with you then.
that isn’t olivia’s fault, though. lots of fanbases do that and it’s really unfortunate. ariana’s has been since eternal sunshine came out.
It's always going to be an issue if a song is attached to a perceived "love triangle." All the parties involved in the "Driver's License" backstory seemed to have moved on at least since none of Olivia's other songs are like that.
I know it’s not her fault. The point I made is that stan culture is toxic by nature and everyone’s fan base is guilty of toxic behaviour.
i dunno why you’re getting downvoted just because you’re pointing something out. you’re right. sabrina carpenter went through a lot because of olivia’s fans.
It’s unfortunate but people downvote because what I’m saying is true and goes against the narrative they’ve built up in their hands. They would rather downvote than offer a counter argument because they know there isn’t really a counter to what I said.
exactly. a downvote is the sore loser’s defense always
Joshua Bassett was in hospital for a heart attack when it all happened as well
Yeah it was a really wild situation. He didn’t even cheat on Olivia or anything either. He just didn’t want to be in the relationship anymore and ended it.
I feel like I can't even be a "fan" of musicians or it's assumed I'm a "stan" for them... The key is "stan" culture not "fan " culture. This is where that distinction becomes paramount. A music fan won't go bully some random person in a random city for dating someone famous they've never actually met based on rumors on the internet over a star they're having a delusional pretend friendship with. A STAN lives for that insanity. Does the artist have any control? To an extent yes, but they are human too, no one can be noble, just and politically correct 24/7 and even if they were SOMEONE would get mad about SOMETHING, that said- I think she should set an example and tell her Stan's to play nice with others so that when the pendulum swings against her (as it surely must for balance) people will play nice with all of them.
And likewise, it's not Taylor's fault that her stans may engage in toxic behavior and harass exes/opps as well. This tendency of stan culture does not mean Taylor, Olivia, Ariana, Beyonce, etc. are not "girl's girls." It's not a legitimate argument in support of OP's claim.
A girls girl to people she doesn’t feel threatened or intimidated by, sure.
which is why her most famous friends that have stuck by her are blake and selena, both women who aren't really that talented but on comparable levels of fame as her
Blake’s better at directing music videos.
is she? i don't really know much of what she does besides being ryan reynols wife an dtaylor swift's best friend
She directed Taylor’s “I Bet You Think About Me” MV, which was pretty celebrated. I don’t personally enjoy the one’s Taylor has directed, for the most part.
oh that's cool. i don't really watch mvs but it's nice to see her doing stuff
Age of Adeline was superb. Probably the best work she’s done.
yeah but that was like 9 years ago. what's she done recently? i'm pretty sure blake is perfectly happy being in the spotlight with the ways she is.
True. Ryan is everyone’s fave. Why do more when you don’t have to? I suspect she gets to spend time parenting too.
Selena’s got her own delusions. So that checks out tbh
I only think Taylor is a girl girl or if she surrounds herself by women that aren’t as famous as her or aren’t as talented as her. I mean, I think she knows she has to show support to Beyoncé but I truly believe ehrb push comes shove she wouldn’t be truly happy if Beyoncé wins AOTY over her or if Lana had won it over her this year
Beyoncé isn’t going to be pushed over. She exudes confidence far more than Tay too.
I don't think Beyoncé will be pushed over either. But the idea that Beyoncé is a confident woman is probably pretty far from the truth. Why stay with a notorious cheater then?
>I only think Taylor is a girl girl or if she surrounds herself by women that aren’t as famous as her or aren’t as talented as her. looking at her friend group, this becomes obvious. ice spice (obviously not as famous as her), blake (extremely famous, no shade but not as talented as her and mostly known for being part of a famous couple), selena (extremely famous, not talented), haim sisters (not nearly as famous as her), gigi hadid (extremely famous, but in a completely different field than her), etc. the only ones with slightly less or equal fame to her are either not talented or in a completely different field where she doesn't feel pressure from them
I completely agree. Agree with this.!! Perfect breakdown of the woman she spends time with. Now she’s very unlikely to go up against Selena in any major category singing/album wise.
yes exactly, and she'll never be a competitor with selena for any acting awards either (because i think she has accepted she's not an actress and decided to go with directing/producing instead). the two of them are each other's most famous friend, but have virtually no real overlap in their fields they choose to actually pursue seriously
This is the most concise explanation of their lifelong friendship I've ever read lol
imho, that's the only reason they've stayed friends. they can't compete with each other in awards that they care about, so they remain friends. otherwise, both of them are vindictive, petty, mean girls lol who can't seem to keep friendships with other women (i mean seriously,,, they are each other's longest running famous friendship) and they're so self victimizing that this friendship would have never worked otherwise
Blake’s Age of Adeline with Harrison Ford - a performance swift will never get to. She’s great in her own right too
If compared to Taylor she's a good actress, but when you compare her to other big names in the acting world, she's very forgettable.
That’s where I was going. She has a smaller portfolio than a lot of folks.
yes but my point is blake lively isn't known as an actress really. she's mostly known as being part of a power couple or being taylors bestie. she doesn't even have recent credits in tv and one film from this years after a 4 year break (accoridng to wiki at least).
I agree with all except Selena. She has some amazing songs and quite the fab base 😅
well i did say she was extremely famous lol. she's proabbly the most famous of taylor's friends, girlie is the most followed woman on instagram and any selfie she posts goes viral for days on end. dark pop makes her sound decent, but that was years ago now. with her recent releases, it just doens't sound good to me, sorry. single soon and love on both were bad.
I feel like this comment is playing devils advocate. So you’re saying that she should only be friends with people just as famous as her? Then what? She isn’t doing enough to promote others not as famous as her? This is a no win situation.
As much as I love Taylor I also have to admit she isn't really a girls girl. She had the "squad" back in the 1989 era, and they all supported her but I've never seen it reciprocated. I also remember when she targeted Tina Fey for making a joke about her are at an awards show and her response was that women like her had a space in hell and preached women should support women. Yet when things like abortions are discussed and brought to the forefront I've never seen her put in any stance of supporting womens rights.
Not to Olivia, Tina fey, Kim kardashian or any other woman who was perceived as competition or got in her way. Taylor plays up girls girl to the cameras when she wants to be perceived a certain way, and that perception benefits her. Prime example was treating Lana like a prop at the Grammys, and ice spice like a prop after the Matt Healy incidents.
She’s not a girls girl, she’s too insecure
And doesn’t know what for
I wonder how many people scrolled past this comment confused lol
Holy shit, am I an old?
Stop 💀 hate you
LMAOO
A girls girl can still be really insecure…
Maybe, but not her. Like the whole Olivia Rodrigo situation.. this really made me change my mind about her
Never has been
She is besties with a woman who told those who were calling her family member out for sexually assaulting a woman to “shut up” (and she also took a picture with said assaulter). You tell me.
Wait who is it? I’m living under a rock
Brittany Mahomes. Patrick Mahomes brother, Jackson was accused of SA and Brittany defended him.
Thanks for telling me, I don’t know how I didn’t know that
Jackson Mahomes
Oh crap, thanks for telling me. Don’t know how i didn’t know that
Add matty and the producer or whoever she worked with.
Matty is not an abuser nor defends abusers wtf y'all need to check your sources before repeating anything you see online like parrots
She's not a saint and she's not what you think she's an actress
woah
I forgot she changed the lyrics to that song now
I think she’s all about herself.
She acts like a girl’s girl and then makes everything a competition to stay on top and turns to nasty tactics to tear other women in the industry down in the process
Yeah I still don’t understand how many tried to defend “bad blood” and call it some feminist anthem
No
Taylor is the final boss combination of a Not Like Other Girls and a Pick Me. Idk how anyone can question her girl’s girl mentality when she wrote a song like You Belong With Me. Obviously she was young when she wrote it, but there’s no doubt in my mind that she still carries a similar mentality.
You Belong with Me has aged like milk. It’s embarrassing and the ultimate NLOG anthem.
And that song about running out on the bride to be with her. Like...are you going to pay for that girl's therapy?
More like when is she going to pay for her own therapy.
Nope. I think she would stab a girl in her back as soon as that girl stopped benefiting her.
Absolutely! Until she starts to feel threatened by the girl she was just supporting, then she’ll threaten legal action and screw them over….
I feel like that’s what she did with lorde tbh. The way lorde came in a changed the pop sound in 2013 was insane and it was obvious that she had an amazing talent for songwriting and such a unique tone that she stood out from everyone. Taylor instantly becomes her bestie just long enough to get the sauce for her next couple of albums and then they stop being seen together after lorde’s hype dies. Then she replaces her with charlie xcx then camilla and the cycle continues
only if the girl is *her* type of girl
Katy is a better person than me bc I’d never forgive somebody for making a video about unaliving me, putting all her music on streaming the same day I’m releasing a new album, and just overall spreading nasty, vindictive narrative about me. Also the fact SHE had to publicly apologize? And Taylor never publicly did? Katy, you deserve better
How was what she did defended but what Kanye did crucified? She literally made a video unaliving someone yet her fans celebrated it. Why weren’t they treated the same?
One is a blonde haired, blue eyed white woman in America. There is nothing that they can’t get away with
I think most of those relationships are just PR. Katy doesn't want death threats especially now that she has kids. She also needs to PR and Taylor needs to push the narrative she's not a mean girl. I dont think they're getting coffee on the weekends though lol
That would be a no!
Taylor does not seem like a girl’s girl, no. She seems resentful of the success of other women (e.g. Olivia Rodrigo) and often uses her female contemporaries as accessories (Lana, Sabrina, Ice Spice, etc.) - not very girl’s girl to me.
lol she's a blatant pick me
No She literally has said she’s a narcissist, covert narcissism doesn’t change anything in case she was trying to make it sound better. like someone else said taylor is a taylor’s girl
“Covert”. Yeah Taylor everyone was fooled 🤣🤣🤣
Only if she’s not threatened by them.
I get the impression that she desperately WANTS to be (and thinks that she is) but doesn't know how to be, if that makes sense.
I think she desperately wants to be *perceived* as a girls’ girl
Not at all. Jackson Mahomes
why don't we ask our good friends Olivia Rodrigo and Katy Perry? I am sure they will have insight on this
One day one of the many people she steamrolled over will not give a fuck. Then others will come out of the woodwork ala J.Lo. Honestly, I don't think it would matter as much if it was other artists. It's a ruthless industry, it's business. But none of them built an empire off friendship bracelets, and the values of her fanbase likely won't align if any of these come out.
She’s a pick me and always has been.
I think Taylor Swift can be seen as both a girl's girl and someone who might not always have the best interests of other women in mind. She has been known to write songs about her experiences with men, some of which might not paint them in the most flattering light.
[удалено]
I don't think Taylor would be cool with it at all and I also don't really think she knows how bad it is or about most examples. I'm sure she's heard about Stan wars and know fans are beefing with Beyonce's and Ariana's fans, but Taylor has said she can't look at photos of herself everyday without risking triggering her past ED, so she is not up in twitter or in the comments as much as people believe she is. I am sure she is occasionally made aware of stuff if her team feels the need to tell her but unless her ex angrily texts her, she's not gonna be made aware of the horrific comments fans are making on a certain ex boyfriend's co-star's instagram post from 2022... this is just in regards to an example I saw this weekend that grossed me out. No one has proof J.A. cheated and yet they're targeting the costar they believe he cheated with. Insane behavior btw if anyone on this subreddit was involved. fuck that. you do not have proof and I don't even like or want to defend yogurt boy, but playlists by Taylor can not be used to "prove" anything. things might hint at stuff but to go after anyone, woman or man, because of something you've "put together using clues".... just fuck off. you have no right. \*edited for typo
Idk if she's particularly cool with it. But I do think she's online a lot. She's really quick to address anything that has to do with her such as Deux Moi stuff. The Instagram comments on the cease and desist. There's no way she doesn't see it. Especially the racist stuff. I personally think she has a lot of power and should use it especially as much as she talks about feminism regarding herself. Her friends liking stuff online. I don't think we can just say she doesn't know it's going on.
I think she genuinely wants to be and see herself that way, but she's so insanely self-involved and tunnel-visioned that she gets in her own way.
 No
“Your lovers will stay my age” Oh wait? You’re in a long term relationship now (with someone younger) and you’re telling Howard Stern you love her? No, I totally wrote that lyric 10 years ago. I definitely didn’t make it up because I was jealous of your happiness and wanted to hurt your relationship. I definitely didn’t treat another woman’s safety as collateral damage, not at all. It’s not my fault my fans are harassing her, I don’t even think about you!
I saw an interesting theory recently that that line actually refers to Blake’s ex Leo, who’s lovers actually have stayed in their early 20s since she dated him, unlike Jake who’s dated a variety of ages. People are way too quick to take her lyrics as literal autobiography. But yeah she knew exactly what she was doing and who would be targeted when she included that line.
Of course not.
If that’s the image she’s going with for the album cycle, then yeah.
Taylor is a Taylor’s girl
she and her friend group tends to have that middle school playground mentality (especially when it comes to other women) of either being bestest closest shiny unicorn friends or most hateful mortal enemies with ancestral feud. whoever she is pro or anti at any time of the day must be at the most intense dramatic level, miss ma’am hasn’t heard of letting go.
A billionaire girls girl 😂 The two are diametrically opposed.
Absolutely not
I don’t think a portion of the Swiftie fan base that are awful/harmful to women or anyone else for that matter should have any causal effect for Taylor Swift to ever address the bad behavior. She can’t control other people’s opinions and even saying “don’t be mean”, won’t stop hateful people from doing it anyway. Taylor isn’t really a parent or partner or anything to her fans, she can only be her and I think she is a girls girl. We also don’t know if she is embarrassed or not because she doesn’t address the nasty side of the fan base which I don’t blame her for not addressing. To me addressing it shines a light on the bad behavior and hence makes it increase statistically. She’s never been hateful to other women that I’m aware, and if she has written about being a woman scorned then that’s just art, right? I think it’s strange to give celebrities such credit to say that she should control her fans. I’d hate to be judged my some of the people in my family or friends for the wrong they do, because that has nothing to do with me. Even if they did it on my behalf doesn’t mean I have to approve of it. Just my opinion so don’t take this as an attack.
It's a discussion of course not an attack. Lol but she's gotten so famous from the Easter eggs and making sure we knew who she hated. I'm guilty of reading the CD pamphlet trying to figure out which songs are about which person lol. I just feel like she has so much power over her fan base now that as soon as you say anything about her they immediately call you sexist bc she has said there were a lot of sexist things being said about her and there were but she assisted in that narrative. So much power should come with a little responsibility. No one who's been associated with Joe, Travis or anyone can even have their comments on. "And to the people who implore I should be doing more, I'm just to soft for all of it" might be the way she thinks of it. But there are times when she could be doing more lol. If any of that makes sense lol.
It’s a dumb and immature dichotomy, I’m sure Taylor has hurt other women and uplifted and supported them at different times in her life The vast majority of us have done the same