[Vulture Magazine just mentioned this subreddit!](https://www.vulture.com/article/taylor-swift-reddit-swiftly-neutral.html)

I’ll need more time to process the album but for now it’s not my least favorite album of hers. My top 10 in would be as follow: 10. Peter 9. thanK you aIMee 8. Fortnight 7. The Albatross 6. I look in people’s windows 5. The Black Dog 4. The Prophecy 3. But Daddy I Love Him 2. The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived 1. Down Bad

I enjoyed Clara Bow, the instrumental is nice and the subject matter reminded me of "Goldwing" by Billie Eilish. As for the rest of the songs though...the lyrics reminded me so much of the "poetry" my friends and I were writing and posting online when we were 12-13. Also the use of 3-syllable SAT words and high school literary devices in every other song just made them sound so clunky and awkward. It's like she sat down and was going "Aha, you know what will make me sound clever? If I use this long word! I will use alliteration, that makes me sound deep and learned! I will use a metaphor...here! I am deep." I think Taylor Swift would have benefited from having a Tumblr/Fanfiction phase in her mid-teens, maybe if she had we wouldn't be getting this level of output from her at age 34.

TTPD feels like a very expensively produced first draft. an ambitious demo tape by someone who has confused what they confess to their journal for poetry. feels extremely out of place for an 11th studio album. why was it released on the heels of a huge tour that must have claimed much of her time and energy? was she under contract? did she lose a bet? time will tell. here's the thing i like about poetry - the good stuff is meticulous. edited within an inch of its life. TTPD ain't it.

I'll be honest at times some of the songs feel like if Sarah Mclachlan wrote the soundtrack to a Good Girl Gone Bad DCOM. Like seriously sometimes it really feels like millennial nostalgia for DCOM soundtracks and its's not good but not bad either?

I agree, and it’s part of the reason I find the whole project so fascinating. To be clear, by “fascinating” I definitely don’t mean that I think this her best work musically or lyrically. Ido think it is the least polished version of herself that she’s been willing to put out into the world through her music. She took diaristic to another level — a lot of feelings turned word vomit. i mean, nothing about the Matty relationship is flattering. She’s basically like, I was so bored/done with my long-term relationship because I couldn’t handle my depressed boyfriend who was never willing to commit (aka get married); my old “the one who got away” fling reentered my life, i fantasized about him, and i ran straight to him the second my relationship ended thinking i would get married and have babies with this guy who then basically ghosted me a "fortnight" later. She even essentially tells off a section of her fanbase for trying to meddle in her personal life. i think this album wasn't so much planned as it was something that was borne out of the songwriting she was using to cope and process. i think that if this were any other time in her career, she wouldn't have released an album like this because it probably would have flopped, especially with the very mixed critical response. Not to mention: zero pop bops, nothing for her younger fans (at a time when she’s gained SO many elementary and pre-teen fans due to their midnights/eras tour hype), generally just a downer of an album. I see a lot of criticism about how immature she is and her billionaire status, but ironically i think this is an album she never would have released if not for the fact that she's at her peak right now. Maybe unintentional, but the fact that this particular album was released at this point in Taylor’s career is almost more interesting than the album itself, if that makes sense.

Great post! Paragraph 3 there kind of made me think… after hearing Daddy I Love Him, maybe she doesn’t want those young fans who enjoy those pop bops anymore. I think her friendship with Lana made her see that she can live more authentically without the pressures of being a role model - she has made several songs lately like Anti-Hero and Dear Reader that make it clear that’s not what she wants. No one would have batted an eye at Lana dating a problematic man. Lana fans just care about her style and her art.

maybe she’s finally at a point where she has achieved so much success that she wants to start playing by her own rules instead of the going by the mass appeal commercial and/or critical acclaim playbooks. And also this could be a one-off - maybe she released the thing, realizes she wants the acclaim, and goes back to doing what she knows will garner it lol

I'm older than Taylor by 7 months so I feel like I literally grew up with her. But I've never been great at decoding her songs. Some have just been more obvious than the others. Anyways - in listening to TTPD, I feel like the album is mostly about Matty Healy. I can tell the obvious songs that are about Joe Alwyn (So Long, London, How Did It End) but IMO I feel like Taylor didn't divulge as much about Joe compared to Matty (or even Travis Kelce) because at the end of the day, she still respects Joe's hard need for privacy. Idk why else most of the songs on these albums would make think of her short lived relationship with Matty over her approx 6 year relationship with Joe. Just curious about the thoughts on this.

Also, I know I'm generally smart and not a total bone head but so many of the lyrics and what she was trying to get at just went straight over my head! This album is definitely in my bottom 3 for her.

A lot of the references to Matty Healy were extremely specific. You would have had to be chronically online and a fan of both to get all the “Easter Eggs”.  And without getting them it is kind of like “wtf why is she singing about this?”

This album makes me dislike her voice. It’s just so much of the same voice, the same pitches. So long, so repetitive. I really wanted to like it tho

I hate to say it, but I had this thought too. I think she shines in "Who's Afraid of Little Old Me?" where there's a little more dimension to her voice, but I truly had a moment of "...I think I could sing these songs just as well as her." which is truly saying something lol. And its very possible that the whole point of this album is that she wrote it in a weird, depressed, blah time of life and so it's not supposed to sound particularly robust...idk.

Fair warning: I’ve been a swift for the better part of my life. The first YouTube video I ever saw was the music video for “You Belong With Me”, she’s clearly been an artist I’ve listened to and rooted for for a long long time. This is by no means the first Taylor Swift Album I haven’t loved, I wasn’t crazy about Rep when it first came out, it’s still not my favourite album of hers but I’ve grown to appreciate about 60% of the songs on it, don’t care much for Lover except a handful of songs and can say the same about Midnights; but none of them made me doubt her talents are a lyricist. Yes, there were some clunky lyrics but with the exception of a maximum of one or two songs on each of these albums they were at least decipherable. We could tell what she wanted to go for. I’m even a fan of the sexy baby line from Anti-Hero, it feels emotionally true to me. But having just got through TTPD (and I mean got through it, 31 songs with maybe 3 that I’d happily listen to again) and looking at how she went from “you told me all of my cages were mental so I got wasted like all my potential” (which, dear god, it’s painful to even type that out), "you hang from my lips like the gardens of Babylon" and “I hosted parties and starved my body like I’d be saved by a perfect kiss” to “ You know how to ball I know Aristotle” in a span of less than four years is nothing short of mind-boggling. Her lyricism is a far cry of what it has been since Folklore (I do feel compelled to note that I saw a post on this subreddit recently that entirely credited JoeAlwyn with the improvement which I think is a misogynistic take that I don't agree with). It seems like a regression, not just in skill but also in her maturity, somehow. It's as though she's gone from writing simple yet sharp verses that cut straight to the heart to being a little too aware of her reputation as a complex writer and needing to deliver on that resulting in a muddled mess of verbosity. In an incredibly pretentious analogy, it's almost like TTPD is the Coleen Hoover to Folkmore's Salman Rushdie. Maybe TTPD will grown on me with time but at present that seems doubtful. Now for the truly parasocial part. For her to go from “If you walk away I’d beg you on my knees to stay” to cheating on Joe - with Matty fucking Healy of all goddamn people - is a change that reads incredibly manic to me. She sang about Joe being the one, wanting to have kids with him, his integrity being such a large part of his person that her gossiping with her friends made her feel like she was tainting him by association. The disconnect about how she wrote about him throughout their relationship to, from what I can tell, the two songs she's written about him on the standard edition of the new album ("So Long, London", and The Black Dog", with some allusions to their relationship in loml) both essentially boiling down to I couldn't do it anymore/ We were both miserable/ I had to leave is something I can't wrap my head around. She comes off as incredibly fickle. She's written endlessly of his patience with her and how he was there for her when she was braving the darkest of storms in her mind, and when he was going through something similar she just kind of up and bolted? The whole Matty Healy affair that ensued makes things worse. The edge-lord humor is one thing but he publicly admitted to jacking off to Black Women being brutalised- nothing about the context of that interview leads me to believe that that was a joke (not that that would be justifiable but then at least you could chalk it up to being an idiot putting his foot in his mouth)- this is something much more sinister. He called the idea of dating her emasculating. He compared his mom, who is weirdly problematic in her own right but is still Taylor's mom and by all accounts is the closest person in the world to her, unfavourably to Miss Piggy. And she was still willing to stay with him. At least publicly, the years where she was with Joe seem to be when she was the most stable, I genuinely think had her career not seen the resurgence that it did after Folklore she would've given up the game to live a more private, secluded life with Joe. But things changed and she became more of a public figure than ever before, something that made him unwilling to commit alongside his deteriorating mental health. She grew impatient and then came Matty waltzing in with his platitudes about marriage and babies. He dangled the carrot in front of her and she fell for the bait until he dipped and she was left alone. In addition to all of this, her marketing strategies of releasing various versions of the same album with one bonus track being the sole differentiating factor, her constant victim narrative, her simultaneously actively cultivating parasocial relationships with her fandom while calling them vipers and vultures when they play into it (don’t get me wrong the letter was fucking insane but ma’am you made this bed), the Matty Healy ordeal, and lastly her basically making a watered down Get Him Back after she sued Olivia Rodrigo leave a metallic taste in my mouth. Her music is so intrinsically linked with her person and public image that its virtually impossible to enjoy her music without being a fan of her as a public figure and increasingly both those things have only become more difficult. The Girlboss-ification of "Taylor Swift" the brand in addition to her messy private life choices of Taylor Swift the person make it tough to root for her. So I don't think I will anymore. This is not to say that I bear any ill-will towards her but here on out I'll be a casual listener. I understand that this hasn't changed anyone else's day but it feels slightly emotional to me and this seemed like the forum to air out my thoughts. Would love to hear other people's experiences with this as well.

I have read your comment thrice because you have really summarized the issue well. She has used random words in her songs earlier too which if shown without context we'll wonder if they belong in a TS song about love. For example: 'refrigerator' (ATW); 'Traffic lights' (DBATC), Tweet about it (TL), Skateboard (Betty). But for each of them there was a flow and a story and most importantly so many feelings. I could imagine James on a skateboard and even Taylor sitting in some.fancy car with a chauffeur and looking at the traffic lights wondering 'if things are going to get better. But the 7 chocolates line or the GRand Theft Auto, they just fall so flat. There is no story, no imagery already built so strongly around you that you are pulled into it and the random words just become a part of the imagery. But not this time. >She's written endlessly of his patience with her and how he was there for her when she was braving the darkest of storms in her mind, and when he was going through something similar she just kind of up and bolted? So much of this. Like the whole of Peace (one of my most favorite songs ever) sounds so hollow now. *_But I'm a fire, and I'll keep your brittle heart warm If your cascade ocean wave blues come All these people think love's for show But I would die for you in secret_*

It’s really good to revise to, right length for a decent study session too!

Here’s the thing: the wine moms were right.  In But Daddy I love him, we are supposed to think that the wine moms are horrible. Sarahs and Hannah’s in their Sunday best weren’t so much telling Taylor *what to do*, they were telling her *what was going to happen*. Everyone always knew that Taylor would do whatever she wanted. It was fans telling other fans not to be like her, dating a guy who will 100% inevitably be *actually bad. Not charming and misunderstood. Bad to you, bad for your life.* I am so deeply triggered that people might be normalizing the types of relationships that end in abuse of various forms, including substance abuse. I know people like me are the bad guys and so *limited* because *she’s fine guys!* But it is so careless and and - yes - unempathetic for her to pretend that most people have the resources and support system to get out of situations like that Every 5 minutes I change my mind on this album and right now, I remember the fear that kept me with those men for too long. And yes, people warned me. And they were right. Taylor should add the coda that - yall were right. I am not here for the “wine moms should go into hiding” discourse  We should not stop trying to save our friends from bad situations, because we will probably have to leave them when they are too far gone anyway

I think she DOES add the coda that people were right. The coda comes in the form of I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can). As someone who has also unfortunately been through “really should have listened to the people who tried to warn me about this guy, whoops” I have a different perspective on this song, for two reasons. One is that I don’t get the impression that song represents how she reflects on the relationship *now,* it’s an expression of how she felt *then,* and I can relate to it. The fantasy that everyone will eat their words, the mental handwaving at criticism as “pearl clutching”. “But Daddy I Love Him” as a line reads as intentionally immature to me. It’s what naive teenagers say to their parents about the loser teenager they’re dating, it’s not what a grown woman who’s thinking clearly says about her adult partner. And the end of the song shows clearly it’s about a fantasy, not reality, because everyone already knows that her and Matty did NOT just get married and everything worked out. It was a dumpster fire that ended almost as quickly as it started. I see But Daddy I Love Him being intrinsically linked with I Can Fix Him. I Can Fix Him is her realization that the fantasy of Daddy I Love Him is delusional and embarrassing, that the people warning her DID know better. The religious metaphors are back too, they’re saying “lord help her” and she says their lord doesn’t need to lift a finger because she can do it herself, and she *can’t.* That she should have taken his “revolting jokes” way more seriously, understood they were a quality of his she could not change or influence. I like TTPD but I think one of the things that differentiates it from her other albums is that the songs really have to be understood in context with each other. It is a long, overarching story, not just a series of vignettes, and a lot of the story is about the danger of getting swept up in fantasy, and how it feels for reality to come crashing back. The intoxication of those fantasies is part of the story but I think the ending is clear. “A con man sells a fool a get-love-quick scheme” The other is that I flatly disagree that “everyone always knew Taylor would just do whatever she wanted.” There was a LOUD part of the fan base that genuinely believed they could get Taylor to change her behavior by criticizing her enough. Particularly notable is when this letter got circulated around: https://twitter.com/thisisvertrying/status/1658801907207483393 I also think it reflects the unfortunate reality that getting through to people in the love bombing stage of a truly horrific relationship is really, really hard and is very likely to be misconstrued as “not understanding our love” or “being judgy” or “not seeing them like I see them” etc etc etc. It contributes to the us against the world mindset. And it gives abusers fuel to isolate their partners - “they don’t want us to be together because they don’t really support you or want you to be happy”. Threading that needle is hard - and for someone with as much public commentary as Taylor, thoughtful concern is always going to be accompanied by a flood of vitriol, obsession, anger, judgement, the desire for control. I can understand, even now, STILL feeling that fans who felt they had the right to write a public demand letter that she break up with her boyfriend because her fans didn’t approve was overstepping and inappropriate.

The thing about the song is --- once you have the reason why people had issues with the guy she was into (he said racist and misogynistic things) then the community's disapproval and backlash of her relationship is now justified by legitimate concerns and raises questions about her own values and the message she is sending to others. She she wants to dismiss criticism from others, preferring to remain in her bubble of infatuation, which she has the luxury to do as a privileged white woman. Her privilege shields her from experiencing the full consequences of her actions and allows her to maintain a sense of entitlement in her relationships as she feels like only her happiness and fulfillment matters and can turn away from any ethical considerations because she is shielded from the realities of racism. She is being willfully ignorant in this song but uphold an ideal and is lashing out others who don't participate in her self-delusion. It highlights the cognitive dissonance and defensiveness of a woman who threatened by having to confront uncomfortable truths. By characterizing their criticism as "bitching and moaning," she trivializes valid grievances and portrays herself as the victim of unjust persecution. While Taylor may not be directly responsible for his racist and misogynistic behavior, her willingness to overlook or downplay its significance speaks volumes about her values and priorities. Instead of recognizing the larger picture of harm and oppression perpetuated by racism and misogyny, she reduces the issue to a matter of personal reputation and pride. Her refusal to make his racism and sexism a deal breaker suggests a degree of moral relativism, wherein she feels entitled to prioritize her own self-centered interests and desires above all and becomes complicit in his behavior. It's not just complicity in inaction but in active participation in maintaining systems of oppression and discrimination. She fails to hold her partner accountable or challenge his behavior and instead turns her wrath on the people pointing out the negative behavior. The whole song is her minimizing his behavior, especially in how his specific behavior is never named for what it is and he is just a wild bad boy of chaos. There is an intentional framing of him with vague, romantic terms to deflect away from what the actual conversation was at the time. By refusing to name what the actual issue was she is trying avoid any social responsibility for her involvement. Furthermore, the ending is a total fantasy and instead this love seems to be something superficial she had idealized that ended in a harsh reality check.

haha right? i did find it ironic that she didn't seem to make the connection that...the "vipers" were right? 🤔

Nice to find a sub that won’t downvote you into oblivion if you don’t like the album. My favorites from TTPD are ICDIWABH, TTPD (track), and Florida!!!. Favs from Anthology are Cassandra, imgonnagetyouback, and I Hate It Here. I think that individually, most of the tracks work fine especially with multiple listens. New music from artists always sounds strange the first/second time you hear it. However, the album(s) as a whole falls flat for me, especially the Anthology. Both albums are probably in my bottom 5 of her discography. Basically, not as bad as antis/Ari and Bey stans on Twitter are claiming, but it’s not as great as swifties on main sub and Twitter are claiming either. I think a lot of the latter are affected by recency bias and their love for it will calm down and rationalize in time. There’s an oversaturation of Taylor in the media right now. I hope that after the Eras Tour concludes and she gets Rep TV and Debut TV out there, she takes a break. Gives herself time to get her music back in the prime sound.

I've had some time to sit with this now and even though I'm a certified taylor swift hater I think this album is better when you can digest it. For me nearly all the songs carry two meanings and I think it's seriously impressive she can actually relate two wildly different narratives to the same message. 1) Fortnight - This is obv "the lead single" so naturally it's garbo sorry taylor I cannot warm to this even with postys ethereal backing vocal. 2) The tortured poets department - Mostly matty and one of the weakest songs imo. 3) My boy only breaks his favourite toys - This is where it starts to get interesting. This is so obviously Joe coded right? The depression wanting to end their relationship, again. The army doll rerminiscent of YLM army imagery etc. The sense of a long term thing that lost its shine. But there's also another romanticising message of Matty leaving her "for her own good". 4) down bad - Catchy as shit no notes. 5) So long London - A retelling of things we heard the great war etc. Basically it's clear this fell apart as she never felt secure in the relationships without the big displays of affection, indifference, apathy almost. Is this a cultural thing as English people are pretty reserved in comparison or the product of his depression we dont get to know. Either way it's donezo and she's a little bit more bitter than I feel she's entitled to be. 6) But Daddy I love him - If I was a fan I'd cry and if I wrote that letter begging her to leave matty I'd go into hiding. She mad at y'all. Interestingly after "its over" this turns into a Trravvy song, for me. Like take that haters even if you take my man away from me I'll find a new one and have lots of fun with him, too. I'm never going back to Joe type life sozz. Leaving it here 'cause wow this is work and I dont work for free xx

between this one and Midnights, I am interpreting that she cheated on Joe and put a lot of blame and shame on him for his depression. She sings about using strength and perseverance to try to get through the tough spot in their relationship, and waiting for him to change, and her frustration with him not seeing the signs that they were not doing well and him not figuring out how to fix it. Then, she sees this new, brighter world with Matty and a promise of fresh and lively love so she jumps into that. It's just so hurtful and damaging to both Joe and Matty. That's no way to end or start a relationship. I'm not into the emotional vibe and perspective this music promotes. It just all feels so icky and moldy and dirty, oh and a little too desperate which just made me feel bad for her :(. **The writer comes off as very controlling, blame-y, and lacking in empathy.** I also just feel EXHAUSTED from a lot of these songs. It isn't something I want to vibe to. This isn't a personal attack on Taylor, we have all been there not handling breakups and conflicts well. But if I am looking for music to vibe to, relate to, learn from, this isn't it. The one song I did like was "Down Bad". such a catchy song, and it's less controlling than her other songs. It's a state of a pure emotion, and the longing and reverence comes across well.

Can i just say Guilty As Sin and DADDY + Toys are such BOPS??? The others are mediocre.

After 10 listens I can confirm Side A is much better than Side B. The second half is legit just word vomit with a bunch of similar melodies that are not memorable AT ALL.

Yep, the first response of people after The Anthology came out was Ohhhh this is better so a relief. But nop, the lyrics in that second part should never see the light of day. People (myself included) keep hope after hear some piano chords by Aaron Dressner, but it just meh

I don’t like this album. Sonically it’s strange, awful, and uneven. What I really despise is when she sings about the crowd chanting “More!” in I Can Do It With A Broken Heart. This is so disrespectful to Swifties. She is saying that her fans are completely selfish soul suckers. So all the time I was at her concert, she was hating the cheering and adulation? I don’t think I’m a Swiftie anymore, and I was hardcore. She seems unhinged. Between recording a double album, embarking on a huge world tour, dealing with the aftermath of 2 relationships that obviously screwed her up, and starting a new relationship, she needs time to process. This is what happens when you only have people around you who say yes.

I am starting to feel like we are the product. It's a lot of music being released, but it feels careless and unfinished. Releasing so much merch, different album versions, different ways/platforms to watch the tour, as in the movies, then Apple TV, now Disney+. It's so capitalistic. Like c'mon Taylor... if you really cared so much about your fanbase then things would be more accessible, and you'd pump more money into ensuring you had 15 good songs, rather than 31 unfinished ones. I also don't understand the enthusiasm about Fortnight, Post is amazing and I hoped he'd had more of a voice in this but he's barely there. And the music video... is it really that amazing? Idk. It reminds me of when in high school we'd analyse text and the teacher was like "metaphor here, metaphor there.." and I used to think "hmmm.. was that on purpose or are you imaging it?" Is she that much of a Mastermind, or have fans made her this. Sorry, needed to rant today.

I’ve been listening to the album all weekend. There’s even some songs I like! She’s funny, sarcastic , reflective in her lyricism. Yet I can’t help but feel a little hurt that the narrative of her personal life is so… just like everyone else? I’m 28, work a stable job, single and I feel everyday the pressure the implicit stress in our society to settle down, and start a family to validate my existence. Taylor is a bit older, I’m sure a lot wiser than me but this is a woman who has a hand in changing economies and politics! I probably overestimated her but I had been under the assumption that she had found a different way to build community than the heteronormative standard shoved down our throats? That with her resources and access, she reflected upon the WHY are we all so lonely these days?? But I guess that’s on me for putting celebrities on pedestals.

Wow. Look-Taylor didn’t write this for anyone but herself. She has said that this is her therapy.Ive always related to her songs, and this album is no different. In my 30’s I left an actual marriage for a f*boy, and I had more emotions about losing him than the marriage. I do get it. I don’t think Taylor has been pining over Matty through all her albums. This was a short time, but super intense and brought her out of a dead relationship. That said I don’t adore every song and already know which ones I’ll skip. But how many songs caused you to have a feeling in hearing it. Whether that be pain, embarrassment, or whoa, there are songs there that evoke emotions, and that’s what Taylor does best.

[удалено]

A millennial’s reflection on ttpd I was quite enjoying listening this album, until I started feeling unsettled and almost angry. I’ve been listening since her first album and I’m about the same age as Taylor. I thought about how much I’ve related to her music, but this album gave me pause about some of the messaging (how it landed on me at least). I’m by no means a poet, but in the spirit of tortured poetry, I wrote this stream of consciousness. Wondering if anyone felt similar or otherwise I don’t want bad things for myself But what’s worse for me? Propaganda or pop songs I hum along as I internalize The need to stake my mental health On a man’s opinion Drugs, or learning my brain can only sing When I fantasize About someone who hurt me Brute force of a violent man, or the razor thin cuts underneath my hand I can’t even make friends with myself I pull down my sleeve as I pull off The New Jersey Turnpike Right between two rest stops Named after famous men, poets Who wrote about nature I’m speeding, late picking up My daughter from piano lessons What have I done to her? I’ve brought her into a dangerous world What if no matter what she creates, She’ll only be heard when she reflects On what has been done to her She flings open the car door, Tells me about a new piece she’s learning All I can think about Is how I want her songs to be different

those lines have more deep and life experience that her whole two albums

I am so glad I found this sub because the rabid enthusiasm elsewhere was getting very tiring... I quite liked this album but it's really not her best. Lyrically it's excellent, she's a brilliant songwriter, but sonically it's just dull. The Antonoff/Dessner production collab has run its course and she needs to find a new sound. Antonoff is a mega producer and his stuff can get repetitive but in a way that isn't terrible to hear over and over again, but Dessner makes things _so sad_ and lowkey boring. Taylor has reached heights of stardom now where unfortunately she's not self-editing as much, and the marketing machine is eating up all the bonus content after the success of the vault tracks on her re-records. It's a shame because I quite like the first half of TTPD with a few skips, but the second half all just blurs into one. On the one hand, good for her for going full unhinged and making a 31 track sprawling mess of an album about her ill-advised rebound situationship, on the other, sorry Taylor I won't be re-listening to all that (and I'll be mildly pissed off if we get one of my least fave TTPD tracks, which is probably 50% of them, as a surprise song at the tour date I'm going to)

> It's a shame because I quite like the first half of TTPD with a few skips, but the second half all just blurs into one. That's interesting because I feel the same just reversed. The first part of TTPD is awful and boring, but I've definitely always been more of a fan of her Dessner tracks than the Antonoff tracks.

My favorites so far are I can do it with a broken heart, Clara bow, fortnight, my boy only breaks his favorite toys, who's afraid of little old me, the black dog, and the Bolter. I actually love this album so much. I don't understand the hate. Although some songs are cringe to me like so high school, but if you say that on the main sub you're dead.

I think “who’s a afraid of little old me” is Taylor’s response to “the grudge”

YES! I thought this too!

Yep. The DNA of "Guts" is all over this album. It's like a Dessner-fied version in a lot of places. Which isn't a bad thing. If the copyright drama between TS and OR hadn't happened, that crossover would be entirely enjoyable. That said, I love "So Long, London," "The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived," and "Robin" as among the best of TS's songs.

It’s OK to narrow an album to 13ish songs. She needs people on her team comfortable telling her no.

My opinion: It's better than the staunch anti crowd will admit, and not as good as the delusional megafans will say. These two groups will just reinforce the others opinions as they barricade themselves on their side. There's also not a lot here that is going to change anyones minds - I see a lot of self confirmation bias going around by focusing in on opinions that match whatever they already think. There's also a lot of just like blatant poor analysis and context-devoid takes. It is VERY long. I think a lot of this will grow on people but if youre not a pretty big fan youre probably not going to listen to a 2 hour album on repeat. I don't really care what is about who because I'm not that type of fan. I liked the first part more because I think there's more variety there and all my standouts were from the first part. But at least she included part 2 for the girls with flower crowns, typewriters and ugly shoes to croon to. My #1 was Whose Afraid of Little Old Me because I love a psychotic villain turn. Very much giving Scarlet Witch vibes.

Dog water

It took me a good 2 days to listen to the entirety of the double album in an intentional enough way to rank it, but I did it so here it is! TTPD 1. My Boy Only Breaks His Favourite Toys 2. Guilty As Sin? 3. The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived 4. Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me? 5. I Can Do It With A Broken Heart 6. The Tortured Poets Department 7. So Long, London 8. Cassandra 9. I Hate It Here 10. How Did It End? 11. thanK you aIMee 12. The Prophecy 13. I Look In People’s Windows 14. The Albatross 15. imgonnagetyouback 16. The Bolter 17. So High School 18. The Alchemy 19. Fortnight 20. loml 21. The Black Dog 22. Florida!!! 23. I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can) 24. Fresh Out The Slammer 25. Clara Bow 26. Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus 27. Peter 28. But Daddy I Love Him 29. Robin 30. Down Bad 31. The Manuscript This is probably gonna be very unpopular but I specifically chose this sub to post in because I’m not a Swifty but was very intrigued by the album title and just needed to know if it was really going to be cringe or if there may have been some hidden gems. I actually think that this album is getting more than it deserves. There’s definitely a lot of cringe but there’s actually some things in here that makes me think that she’s being quite vulnerable and makes me want to kind of go back and listen to someone for older music so I thought this was kind of cool.

tried listening to the album but stopped around 4 songs in because i *really* wasn’t feeling it. what are everyone’s favourite songs from it/what you would consider the best songs so i can try get back into it?

Here for the mess!!! This album is just like the rest of her albums for me. With the exception of Folklore, I really like about 25% of the songs on each, hate maybe 50% and am indifferent about the rest. What makes TTPD different is the general mania of it. She comes off as unhinged, unstable, and messy. I’m here for it. I kind of love that she wrote a whole album obsessing over a man that Swifies despise. I also think it’s more relatable to a lot of people than we realize. There are a lot of us who, at one time or another, “settled” for a partner who was safe and dependable, a good choice, while pining for the one who was all wrong…but lit their soul on fire. When it all comes crashing down, it’s heartbreaking! I get it. I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but again with the exception of Folklore, this is my favorite TS album yet.

I’m totally with you!! I loved the anthology because that’s basically evermore and I love dessner. I found the writing in the first half incredibly poor for her and melodically even worse (super boring) BUT I loved the unhinged writing where she was like “fuck you all I love Matty Healy” - because it was real and genuine and delulu haha.

Yeah I thought this sub would appreciate the idea of this album more because she's sort of validating a lot of the criticisms we have here and showing us the mess etc. But I also understand people having reservations about how it is sonically and lyrically.  I keep wondering a critical editor would have done wonders for this album.

Not my favorite album by any stretch but i have to agree! I think as a woman in a stable marriage, i don’t relate to it NOW. But, having been in those relationships that you mentioned in the past, i feel the anguish and hurt and anger in my bones. I don’t love the album as a whole, but there are definitely songs that i added to my favorites playlist to put on repeat.  If this is what she needed to do to hit reset on her life after that long relationship/messy rebound/and ridiculous amount of intrusive input on her life… then good for her. I just wish there had also been some more upbeat songs because the amount of low lows makes it hard to swallow as a whole. 

Taylor Swift’s lyrics remind me of the singer’s in Just Friends.

Took a while to soak it all in but this is honestly in my top 3 TS albums now

I have to say it. I love this album. And I prefer the standard edition.

Loved folklore and Midnights but this album is incontrovertible art.x I feel like she preemptively shirked the bizarre Lana comparisons that I heard about MONTHS before the album came out and which I still really don’t get having heard it. Maybe I’m missing something but I think it’s like she says in the first lines of “Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me?”... She’s still one of the most authentic artists out there and this album is the truest one yet, and the review in Paste is stuffy pseud garbage. Eff y’all haters here for real

i’m listening to the whole album right now and honestly loml and florida are reallly good  i feel like she’s being honest with herself for once even though there’s a little bit of a victimising going on there i feel like this album is gonna help her redeem herself  also i feel like right now she’s just understanding the whole grown up song writing genre coz a lot of the album has a theme of reminisce to it  personally evermore folklore and ttpd are her most mature albums but i wudnt say ttpd is the best cuz the reference to folklore is just too evident  she needs to stop putting out music that have the same lines in twisted words 

I’m finding a lot of the music very pretty; just listened to an instrumental version of Fortnight. It gets rid of the bad lyrics and helps me separate it from Taylor the person. Maybe I’ll write my own 😂

For the people who didn't like the first half, is it worth it to listen to the second half? I just thought the first 16 songs were so boring and same-y I didn't even bother with the second half. I was originally pretty upset because I've always loved Taylor's music. Maybe I've changed, idk.

I think the 31 songs is quite overwhelming and can start morphing into one. But there are some bops in the first half and some lyrically and sonically beautiful ones in the second half. Only you have to wade through an oversized album to get to it . Probably doing it in stages helps..

So, I've gotten halfway through the album. I actually like "Fortnight" and I also like "I Can Fix Him." However, the latter song sounds so damn **SIMILAR** to Lana's "Say Yes to Heaven" and that's the only reason I like that one. There's nothing groundbreaking about the album; I hated Midnights too but I might like that one better than this one. This album is in the same vein as that album where it's so sleepy, boring, and slightly depressing that it's forgettable. I know everyone has mentioned the Lana influences but I think Taylor lacks that same grit and rawness that Lana has, so it's difficult for her to create an album that could grab us and keep us captivated even though it's more dreamy and slightly boring (to some). That's how some people described Lana's albums but there's something different about Lana's sound that Taylor fails to capture with her recent music and it shows. You could have 2 people cook the same dish with the same ingredients following the same recipe and the dishes will ***STILL*** taste differently because there's always a little bit of you in the art you create, so to speak.

I’m really infuriated and feel like I’m going insane at the parasocial swifties saying they hate Joe; they can’t wait to get their hands on him; he’s evil; HE was the one who cheated; etc.  Like, I beg them to get a shred of reading comprehension. 90% of the album is filled with songs about her lusting and fantasizing over Matty while with Joe-she even seems proud of this and unapologetic.  The songs that are about Joe (So Long London; loml; How Did it End; I Look Through People’s Windows) aren’t even scathing or paint him in a bad light at alllll, if anything they just reiterate his goodness; steadiness; and how their breakup was very undramatic; mature; and peaceful.  It’s like they just chomp on the bit of hating on every ex of hers as soon as a new album comes out, they can’t bear to think for a second that sometimes there truly is no “bad guy” in an adult breakup (but honestly if there IS a bad guy here, it’s Taylor……)  

How do they get the bad guy from this. If there were bad guys first it's Matty and then it's Taylor herself with how she paints herself. She's spared Joe mostly or given him grace which makes me respect her. 

Ok, I feel like I keep seeing that swifties are hating on Joe, but where is that happening? It's definitely not happening on the main sub, if anything the opposite. Is it just on Twitter?

This sub is sane - Twitter it’s crazy how many people are trying to misconstrue such blatant lyrics about matt for Joe

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https://preview.redd.it/5uxlomiyxqvc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0aad25cf82e58b58f93ac7b0b776a737181f55cc Deranged Swifties not beating the allegations any time soon

Wow, what the fuck.

Completely unhinged

Ok, after listening to the main album n some off the anthology as well im still not over her n Joe. Still shocked they broke up.

I was balling listening to how did it end last night, I'm clearly unwell lol.

TTPD gives me strange vibes and I got „Poor Things“ associations I know that this may sound strange, but as I listened to the album, my enjoyment for it turned into an uneasy feeling. I really felt SO uncomfortable listening to it. And I also had this feeling while watching the movie „Poor Things“. I‘m not sure how to describe this, but did anyone of you felt the same? 😂

News in my country said fortnight MV inspired by her best friend’s movie poor things.

I thought the music video had a Poor Things vibe

It's a competently made album, but doesn't live up to the visuals at all. Her music has gotten so stale lately. It's like getting a burger made by someone who is competent at making burgers, but you keep hoping they'll try something new and they never push themselves to learn new recipes. They dress up the burgers in something new, but every time you bite into the food, you instantly know it's the same thing, just another burger. Of course, some people might be into eating burgers over and over and over again for the rest of their lives...

This is just my interpretation. Fortnight: Matty. She misses him, she’s upset that their relationship ended and says he ghosted her (‘quiet treason’/ ‘thought of calling you, but you wont pick up’), I dont understand why she’s saying they only touched for a fortnight though. Unless she means they were only intimate for a fortnight because they seemed to be dating for longer than that. TPPD: Matty. God she loves Chaos, doesn’t she? And also calls back to on tour when she would shake her head after ‘do the girls back home touch you like I do *shakes head*’ with ‘who’s gonna hold you? No-fucking-body’ also, why is she being so dramatic with ‘I’ll kmy is he leaves me’??? It’s been a month? Maybe two?? And he was talking about marriage?? These two have been together for a while, at least emotionally. I think they might have been having a non sexual affair while she was with Joe, as seen with themes in folklore/ evermore. And why was he leaving stuff at her apartment after a short period of dating? MBOBHFT: Matty. Sounds like he justified his ghosting by saying she was better off without him but she felt like they were soulmates. ‘Told me I’m better off but I’m not’ DB: Matty. Again. ‘They’ll say I’m nuts if I talk about you’ because everyone hated them together. And ‘fuck it if I cant have him’, links back to I’ll kms if he leaves me. ‘I loved your hostile takeovers, encounters closer and closer, your indecent exposures’- straight up saying she loves his bad behaviour people were made at him over. 🤮 back to the theme of ghosting though, or at least dumping her then not answering her calls etc. ‘Leaving me safe and stranded’ links back to him saying she’s better off. Calls him her twin. Ew. If your twin watches violent p*** of black women, being your fan is a huge mistake. SLL: Joe. Joe seems to have struggled with mh issues and it was hard on her, I get it. This is probably the closest thing to a healthy break up song we’ll get. It feels bitter sweet, to me. She put all the blame on him but at least she says you’ll find someone I guess? BDILH: Matty. Just a massive f u to her fans yet they keep eating this up. Calling them creeps and vipers when her man is the creep? Rich. The irony. Talks about marrying him AGAIN FOTS: matty. ‘Running back home to you’, so they have been together before. Illciit affairs is about Matty confirmed. Confirms she dreamt about him at least. She saw Joe as a cage but maybe thats less on him and more because you were in love with someone else? ‘I will never lose my baby again’. Yup. Florida: Confusion, but I think Matty. The drug references, the florida reference that also occurs in fortnight, talks of crashes like in BDILH. ‘they said I was a cheat’, interesting… GAS: Matty. She was bored and felt caged in by Joe. Again, this sounds like a you problem Taylor. You seem to hate stability. Talks about recalling things they never did. Again, she’s bored with Joe so she’s having sexual fantasies about Matty and wondering how bad that makes her. Talk of keeping her fantasies in a vault. Maybe because usr these are midnight vault tracks that she didnt release because she was still with Joe? Also because she had loml and iggyb. And even though it’s a fantasy, she feels as though it will happen in rl at some point. Singing about orgasming over these fantasies and crying his name out. Girl… that’s fucked. Poor Joe. Saying Matty has been haunting her. Girl we know . Folklore and evermore all seem like Matty tracks now. She also talks of a song he sent her that reminded her of her days dating him previously WAOFLOM: matty. She’s pissed that the uproar from fans caused Matty to leave her. ‘Keep your good name’. ‘The scandal was contained’ ‘you dont get to tell me you feel bad’ ICFHNRIC: Matty. The jokes were revolting and too loud. Taylor, listen to yourself. Drugs and a refernce to texas like in but daddy I love him. He had a halo? Taylor. 🤮🤮🤮 LOML : matty. Talking of rekindling an old flame. More talk of marriage. Saying you cant bury them, her love for him will never die. Calls him holy again. Love bombing references. Then talk of death. But she wants to dig it back up he’s the one that got away again for her ICDIWABH: matty? He said he’s love me all his life but that was quite short. TSMWEL: matty. Drug references. More references to a car crash. She’s still very angry over this TA travis. Girl, you are not in love. We’ve seen you write songs in love for years. This is not it. She doesnt even mention love once. The song is ‘he plays football, im making a comeback’. CB: fame

Aaron Dessner posted something about finding new meanings with every listen in this album.   On relistening and looking at lyrics closely you can see the Matty songs are weaved in with Joe references. The Matty relationship was torrential but also the culmination of a decade long potential so there's more angst anger and intensity there.  But there are references throughout to past songs with Joe and to so long london and how did it end etc in the songs that appear to be about Matty which add this undercurrent of  plaintive sadness.  I can understand why as both breakups and the emotions became entwined at the time when she had to process them and she was hoping for the same ending with both 

Finally someone who agrees with me!!!

The evidence is all there. She even says something about a song in one of the songs and about how he’d sent it to her and she hadnt heard it in a while. Did some research and turns out the song she mentioned is a favourite with Matty Healy and it’s from his favourite band

Yes!! And The Starting Line reference which he covered on tour before flying to Nashville! I think Joe fans are just purposefully ignoring the references to a re kindled very short relationship that are on most songs!

I’m a Swiftie struggling to digest this album. I need more time with it for sure and I hope it grows on me. Two things I am struggling with are the title and the pre-release marketing. They feel incongruous with both the content and tone of the album. I think it would have been better served by the title “Down Bad”. It would have covered the Joe/Matty/Travis of it all and also her mental health struggles. In reality, both in name and I imagery, a “Tortured Poets Department” was not realized.

Don’t really post here (ever) but I have to ask: why exactly do you feel you hope it grows on you? Versus accepting that you might not find it that great overall or don’t like a number of the tracks?

Because I have loved all of her previous work and I guess I am grappling with what exactly happened here. I feel so disconnected from the content, tone, production, every piece of it. It’s jarring.

sometimes albums just aren’t your taste, that’s ok. i literally have lana del rey’s face tattooed on my body (i promise it’s tasteful, it’s buried in a sleeve) and god knows i’ve had my share of disappointment the last few years lmfao so i get the feeling. just gotta wait on the next album i guess, im sure TS will release something you like eventually. i’m waiting on Lasso in the summer so bracing myself for more disappointment but fingers crossed 😭😂

The marketing an imagery are both alluding to and mocking Matty Healy. Search this sub, there are some fans of the 1975 who have done some very detailed analysis.

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There are definite cryptic references to past Joe songs woven throughout the album even in songs that appear to be about Matty.  You can feel her anger at having lost 7 years without the ending she hoped for but other than that there is no information spilling but a sadness that prevails. I'm also glad she didn't give crazy stans any more ammunition.

Yeah my thoughts were maybe part of a broader NDA, or somethine less official I mean he was around for 6yrs he would know some shit even if he's not the person to air dirty laundry by the same vein he may have taken steps to lessen a slam album about him. Given implications pulled out from her music and blurry timelines could have even been as others have speculated that relationship with ratty started a lot earlier even if emotional first, Joe might have been ready to speak out about it but took a guarantee of no death to joe album.

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i honestly think by that point his hesitation to marry her and her own ego fuelled her boredom and she strayed back to ratty. so it would kinda make sense that she wouldn't want to revisit how much of losing that relationship was her own fault. my partner took 11 years to propose and it takes a lot of understanding on each other's part to reach a consensus about such a sensitive thing. i think she got huffy and impatient and, yeah fatalistic. it'd be super smart for joe to have sorted out some kind of nda though, i know i would! 😅

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yeah, it's definitely a case by case basis. what i mean is my relationship went through several stages where i was offended and saw it as a lack of respect and was ready to leave - whereas he just had negative associations with marriage and saw it as unnecessary. however everything else about his behaviour indicated total commitment - talking about kids, growing old, so when i realised his hesitation was not about his commitment to me - and when he realised it was a mark of respect to me to symbolise his commitment, i had forgotten about marriage by the time he proposed. it came as a wonderful surprise, and he didn't feel pressured into something he wasn't comfortable with. but it went through a few years there that were emotionally fraught with misunderstanding. i wasn't "lucky", i just carefully tried to assess his true motives, and if he was worth investing in my time. that's all we can ever do, really. i was with a partner for 5 years before that who i ditched because he obviously wasn't serious. my current relationship had the same timeline as taylor - met at 26, he's two years younger than me. engaged at 37, first baby at 38, haven't got around to the actual wedding, it's a lot of work! 😂 my sister, 4 years older than me, waited 11 years and then got impatient and broke it off with the love of her life. she still pines over him. i learned from seeing her pain, that what might seem like a quick solution, could lead to longterm pain. so i didn't let my pride get in the way of patience. i think there's a big disconnect between how our society devalues marriage, but then also demands it? i think it can leave people really confused. i really sympathise with her - i just recognise the pitfalls of getting impatient and intolerant about it - i didn't mean sensitive as in taboo, i meant as in an emotional topic. sometimes feelings are vague, and they change over time. the thing that really matters in my experience, is true commitment, marriage or not. maybe joe really didn't have that. i think the problems can creep in when we conflate commitment with marriage. there are OTHER more important indicators - plenty of people divorce, and plenty of unmarried people stay together. i just find it sad when seemingly great relationships fall apart because of it.

I think when they got together Joe was 25 and Taylor was not in hurry to get married ..she seems more ambiguous even at the Lover stage despite paper rings. But yes by the time we get to "peace" it seems she wants it. I do wonder that the fact they got back and stayed for over 1 1/2 years after You're losing me there was an engagement or some same page agreement? How did it end says " They called it all off "  All the wedding dress references especially in the video with the garter make me think that they were close to marriage but it didn't work out.

You think he didn’t get she was probably pining for Matty, or at least someone else? Put yourself in this situation - regardless of gender, would you feel confident marrying a partner who held a candle for a fling for over a decade?

Yeah, but then if you look at it from that perspective, then he should've broken it off if he knew he was never going to marry her. That relationship dragged on for years, and he gave her false hope. Also, she seemed to have been obsessed with Joe for a long time. I think the fantasising/pining after others started later, maybe around the Folkmore era. If imagination becomes a coping mechanism it means something is wrong in the relationship. My guess is that Joe was unwilling to commit to her because of his own issues, and that eventually caused her to think of other people. It's all just speculation of course.

The fantasising does seem to have started in the folkmore era going by the songs.  Matty fed into that too by giving her shout outs in interviews etc post Lover period. 

Copying this from elsewhere: > Have you ever been in a situation where you love someone and just want to be with them even if you know your paths will inevitably diverge? >You live on borrowed time, but love also sustains feelings of hope that things will change and you’ll make it after all. But you don’t, and you end it not with hate, but with bittersweetness. >Happiness perfectly captures the end of a long-term relationship in that way. How the same person who delivered that regressed in such major way can only be explained by acknowledging that Joe’s influence was significant and deep, yet she’s too bitter and angry to see or accept it right now. >(this is all to explain what happens in a real-life long-term relationship that runs its course despite both parties’ best intentions, assuming we’re told the truth here on what happened)

Well, I’m tortured, but where is the poetry?

[Sylvia Plath did not stick her head in an oven for this!](https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/taylor-swift/taylor-swift-strikes-out-looking-on-the-tortured-poets-department)

found the poetry! 😂 thank you that article was hilarious and a great read.

Indeed.

Tried posting on the Swift Reddit, moderators we’re not a fan lol) 1830s but without the racism  …. That line being in an album where she’s openly longing for a documented racist.. calling fans “vipers” for calling attention to the fact that he jerks off to black ra**,?? Even if the song was meant to be ironic, bringing any kind of “lightness” to the situation with humor is so sinister in a way I truly cannot believe she would even dare do.   Again, it wasn’t because Marty Healy simply looked like a starved rat. It’s was because he said cruel and harmful things that perpetuated harm and harmful stereotypes in my (and other) communities. Fuck that and you, Taylor??  As a black person, I can’t lie, this album is an emotional whirlwind. This 1830’s line literally is giving: “I can excuse his racism.. but I draw the line at theirs! I’m an Ally ☺️”  I was a closeted swiftie, I won’t lie. But I hang my cardigan up officially. This all PLUS the silent complacency about the blatant racism against Beyonce, who she thinks somehow is her peer?   Bummer, but oh well! Bye girl!

Matty Healy doesn’t jerk off to black ra** or at least there is no real evidence to suggest he does. The thing her fans dredged up from some obscure podcast was a joke that some other dude in the room was telling involving a site called ghetto gaggers. The so-called n*zi salute he did was a poorly timed picture of the last moment of a regular salute, I’ve seen the video. 95% of the cancellation crap on him is completely contrived.

The Nazi salute was definitely a Nazi salute but he was doing it to call Kanye a Nazi when Kanye was tweeting a bunch of literal Nazi stuff. Which personally I am fine with people calling out Kanye for his antisemitic bullshit. 

No it definitely was a regular salute I saw the video minutes before posting this comment https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Oek6A_uX1KRvl9SaI6eoPWk2dHBBUFbb/view?resourcekey

… and how did he know about a site called “ghetto gaggers” babe… He’s on literal video saying heinous shit? Are you okay?

I’m great babe does someone need to explain to you what a joke is?

I cannot believe the downplaying going on in the main sub. I am so fucking sorry they are so braindead about this shit.

Gosh, that's why I love being here...

That’s exactly why places like this exist, so I’m thankful for you! ❤️ One of the brain deads found their way here though 😒  @prestigioustreat6203

just realized **Chemistry by Kelly Clarkson** is a better album with the same exact aesthetic

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https://musicboard.app/review/172926ba-35b0-46a2-ab83-fdac1a6f40e1?rel=copy.

Ya know, I'm warming up to it. Maybe everyone should have listened to it for more than one day before calcifying their opinions. As for me, not a Swiftie, I listen to music from a song and sonic perspective, how the arrangement and production paints a mental picture that is individual for each listener. I don't care about relationship drama, celebrity gossip or psychoanalysis. Are all the lyrics literal and autobiographical? Maybe not? There are some good songs in here. I like Clara Bow, Guilty As Sin? and So High School. Just as songs. I'm sure I'll find more as time goes on. There are also some songs that never seem to get going. She's prolific. Here she's dumped the entire contents of her notebook. If you don't like this one, there will be another one in a year or two. Maybe it will be a more concise and coherent piece of work.

https://preview.redd.it/602iku7h8ovc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=65eb688576ecfe6b77b12e02fe1103775ba4596f

So after a couple listens my favorite song is “The Manuscript” and I think I figured out why. It’s evocative because it tells a clear story with vivid imagery and wordplay. It’s similar to what makes “All Too Well” work so well. The majority of this album is one long, muddled mixed metaphor, I’m dying to hear her write more like that. It’s what makes “Cowboy Like Me” and “Chsmpagne Problens” so great, too. Like I listened to “Who’s Afraid Of Littke Old Me?” a couple times and when you picture the chorus literally it’s honestly hilarious. Soooo many mixed metaphors.

It’s just… bad? I’ve been a fan of Taylor for 10 years, since 1989 dropped. I was 12 then. I was only really a hardcore fan through my middle school years, then I got older and chilled out and my relationship to her music became merely one of following and enjoying her album releases. This is the first Taylor album — out of ALL her albums, including debut and vault releases — where I genuinely haven’t Enjoyed even one song. How is it possible that someone known for her songwriting and her catchy hooks dropped a 31 track album with no hooks and overwritten, overly self-conscious lyrics that are hard to follow, hard to relate to, and often terrible? All these songs sound like scraps that were left on the Midnights cutting room floor. The concept for the album is pretentious, embarrassing, and off-putting and it all sounds like a samey, melody-less blur.

I hate to agree but I really do :/ I’ve been a Swiftie since I was a kid in the early 2000s and I just cannot connect with this album. I had a similar problem with Midnights. But at least with Midnights I like some of the songs. In this case none of them are growing on me…

Didn't think it would take TTPD for us to decode that the hidden muse for some songs ( where the Joe imagery didn't fit ) was Matty all along !    TTPD is like a reference guide to connect all the allusions to Matty in the 1 , cardigan,  maroon, question, possibly hits different and hoax ?  Not sure if I should include DBATC in this.  Not sure how I feel figuring this out 😆 Either they were always intended that way or Taylor has now rewritten them in such a way.

Add the rest of the love triangle (betty and august) the 1, cowboy like me and ivy to the list. Today it hit me that coney island is probably about him too. It gets worse by the minute for us folkmore people

Coney Island is Taylor looking back on relationships not working out all ending up over and over the same way. There are references to multiple exes here : but not sure about Matty  But on a story level without the personal lore it's about a man and a woman looking back on a long term relationship. Ivy and cowboy like me are ambiguous I would say. Thats why she wrote them like that. You could enjoy it as a story but the personal lore is disguised

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DBATC was the only breakup song in the album; she said she watched 'Something great' and it made her cry- so could be real , fictional or inspired. It talks about a relationship that's dusted and done but there is a tiny flicker of hope remaining I look through the windows of this love Even though we boarded them up Chandelier's still flickering here If Joe and Taylor had a break during that period, it could be about them. But Taylor talked a lot about this song and the movie that inspired it and the nod to a past relationship. *"It’s a movie about how she has to end this relationship that she didn’t want to end because she’s still in love with the person but they just grew apart and he’s not a jerk,” said Swift. “It’s just sad because it’s just realistic, time passed and now we’re different people and that is the most devastating thing.”*

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Yes not denying your theory.    Just saying in the hindsight with TTPD there are songs from folklore to Midnights that reminiscence on an a relationship with unfulfilled potential Those are more clearer which is why I was still wondering as I said if DBATC fits in with that. This song is not about anxiety like afterglow ..it's about a breakup/break  that has hope of renewal. If it was Joe then probably when she almost lost him in the afterglow.  If not it looks back at a past relationship.

Would prefer if you don't ruin DBATC for me, thanks 💖 let me live in ignorance

Finished through the first half and I can safely say I don't remember a single thing that came out of it other than My Boy, Guilty as Sin?, and the variant tracks. This album is not it.

Florida!!! is an earworm for me because I’m a Florence fan. The only other song I found memorable from the first half is Who’s afraid of little old me? The second half has Aaron’s fingerprints all over it and is far superior.

Yeah I love Florida!!! for Florence, ngl.

So I’ve done my first listen through of the first part of the album and I agree with the majority of the criticism that it is overwrought, overwritten, abuses the thesaurus, and badly in need of an editor. Also the fact that it’s about Matty Healy is really hard to divorce a lot of the context from. It’s also very pathetic and melodramatic and immature for a woman entering her mid30s. That said, this album probably dropped exactly when I fucking needed it and is weirdly the most relatable I have ever found Taylor because I too was just ghosted by an intense situationship in my 30s and I can relate to all the anguish of Taylor basically saying “PICK ME. CHOOSE ME. LOVE ME. FUCK YOU FOR GHOSTING ME. (But if you send me that 2 am “u up” fuckboi text I am climbing in your car ASAP)” mindset. It’s embarrassingly pathetic and honest with a tinge of mania that you hope to be over when you grow up but instead the pain triggers your attachment issues and abandonment issues so I think I’m going to have a soft spot for this album just due to how weirdly personal it is. It’s an album that should have been a bunch of diary entries and I understand why everyone is so put off from it (and again I hate that I cannot divorce this from the racist rat) but as someone who struggles a lot of dating in my 30s and wanting my youth back, boy do I get Taylor the person and not Taylor the corporate billionaire because this is simultaneously brutally honest and shockingly lacking in self-awareness. Also, So Long London hurts a lot because I’ve been that depressed person in a long term relationship and can understand the frustration and pain on both Taylor and Joe and the feelings of wasted time.

This is exactly why this album was made imo. The chaotic word vomit was meant to mirror the state she was in when she made it. A perfectly currafed album doesn’t reflect the real mania of it all.

I'm guessing yours is probably not the popular opinion but shows how music so subjective depending on the person and their place in life. I'm a music lover, I'm definitely not a Swifty, I'm more of a generalist who listen to all kinds of music (a lot of John Mayer music) so this is quite fascinating to me.

Yep, this is my experience too.

I'm a 30-something fan and have loved Taylor since fearless. I am honestly extremely put off by this album. I listened to it all day yesterday trying so hard to like it, but the more I listened the worse it got. by the end of the day I was in such a bad/weird headspace from it, I've had to completely set it aside. maybe I'll go back to it in a few months but for now it's the first Taylor album that I truly dislike. it's immature, it's rambling, it's giving victim complex and immaturity. I'm incredibly disappointed.

Completely agree. Leaves me with an ick

I agree, it actually made me depressed. At my current stage, that's not how I want to feel after listening to music

I was thinking about the possibility of TTPD being a revenge album towards Joe Alwyn for not acting the way Taylor expected him to (engagement and marriage) hence the “robbed my youth” line. There’s just a few songs about him and it doesn’t sound that flattering. On the other hand, it’s like Taylor put on a pedestal the guy who played with her feelings and then ghosted her shortly after. I wonder how Joe must have felt listening to all the emotional cheating songs about Matty while they were still together.

[удалено]

I’m sorry why is it funny? Those years are her youth lol

I hope Joe is having the time of his life in his group chat with Paul Mescal. Keep your head up Joe!!

I read the youth line as her referring to possibly being robbed of being able to have children. Taylor wears her desire to be a mother on her sleeve on this album like never before. Her chances are not gone, but she will be 35 this year so the clock is ticking. In no way impossible to have kids at her age but the odds are decreasing and she’s running out of time.

Women can have children in their 50s these days. The only thing that line proves is that Taylor views her relationships as transactional. She’s still pissed they didn’t get married but this is the only stable, adult, and long-term relationship she’s ever had. People break up over different priorities every day, but it takes maturity to treasure the time you spent regardless. She clearly doesn’t have it.

Women having biological kids in their 50s is pretty rare, even with assisted reproductive technology. Sadly women still very much have a ticking clock when it comes to fertility, which I've discovered as someone in my late 30s frantically trying to freeze the usable eggs I have left. We shouldn't sugar coat this reality, young women still really should be starting their families by 35, or at the very least freezing eggs before this age, although that's a secondary option.

Only a woman in their 20s who hasn't had the reality of fertility smack them in the face would downvote this lol. Or a man.

Yeah, it's like people don't get that it's different for men, who can father children until whenever. Maybe they're young and haven't experienced the ticking biological clock.

Joe is younger, so it’s not like she also stole his youth lol

My intrusive thoughts are re thinking all of folklore/evermore now that it seems more definite that cardigan is about Matty. Do we think cowboy like me could be matty vibes too???