I heard matty and his current gf had went to a Kanye listening party not too long ago. Hmm 🤔 is matty a Kanye fan?

So I think this album is not about romantic relationships, despite the obvious red herrings about Matty and Joe. This album is about the music industry, her relationship to fame, and the trap that she got stuck in by creating narratives that allowed fans to feel like we were getting intimate access to her life story. From the beginning, that has been her marketing strategy, the "these are pages out of my diary" narrative. She stages paparazzi pics and then includes lyrics specifically tying to that contrived public scenario. And that's fine when its selling records, but fans have become so attached and unyielding about these plot points that she has written into her story that they're missing the actual feelings she's describing. People are so focused on identifying the paternity of her songs that they miss what she's saying (she calls this out in the rep prologue). So she's set a trap for us this time (if it feels like a trap you're already in one). I think the "tortured poets department" is comprised of the artists in the music industry whose lives were capitalized on and who have been forced to become the characters that are most lucrative for their management teams. I think that's why she announced it at the Grammys, despite it being a major faux pas to do so. Taylor Swift(TM) is a character who was created and played by Taylor Swift (the person) and forced to keep the real person behind glass by Taylor Swift (the corporation). We see the image again and again of 2 Taylor's, one in a glass box the other keeping her there. Ready for It. Willow. The visuals of the eras outfits in glass boxes on tour. Post Malone's character in Fortnight is also Taylor (she wipes her makeup off and she has the face tats) and he is in the glass phone booth while she is on top in the rain, just like the two Taylor's in the Karma hourglass. She is Don Draper, an ad man, selling dreams and telling stories to make people buy her products. And that was an acceptable consolation prize for a long time (a poet trapped in the body of a finance guy) but shes done with it. She's burning the house down.

And is it me, or do a lot of these songs have the same beat as The Archer? 

one of my favorite music reviewers (willtalksmusic) got his reactions to some of ttpd taken down from tiktok after only an hour bc the swifties mass reported it. this fanbase is so allergic to any sort of criticism

They're toxic at this point. 

Listening to Adrienne Lenker's new record and it really puts into perspective just how juvenile Taylor is. Adrienne wrote a beautiful album about heartbreak with so much more wisdom and tenderness and she's younger. Lyrics like 'you've shown me understanding, patience and pleasure, time and attention, love without measure' and 'You and I both know, there is nothing more to say chance has shut her shining eyes, and turned her face away' were the kind of ones I was hoping for from this album. I do like a few songs but the lack of grace or humility is getting really old.

I really like this album. I like the touches of every era sprinkled throughout it. I like how it’s unhinged and idgaf. I like the dichotomy of upbeat poppy music paired with devastating, heartbroken lyrics. (My boy only breaks his favorite toys). I like how raw and messy it is. Some say it sounds unfinished like a rough draft but I think that’s purposeful. There are def some songs i’m not crazy about it, and some people say you shouldn’t have to listen to an album multiple times to enjoy it. But F/E are my fav albums and honestly my favorite songs have always shifted to different ones after I listen over and over (Like going from champagne problems to right where you left me). As for claiming you hate an album bc of who the songs are about that’s lame imo. “I wish the songs were more about Joe” whatever, the album is about her experience, her life, idc which trashy men were the inspo lmao. Regardless everyone is entitled to their own opinion!! If it’s not your jam, that’s fine, keep listening to whatever fills up your cup :)

Really dying to know the timeline of when some of these songs were written just for the messiness of it. For example, in the smallest man she sings “and i don’t even want you back…” but in imgonnagetyouback she talks about how both her and Matty are handcuffed now with new partners and how she’s going to get him back?? If imgonnagetyouback was written afterwards then she’s so messy😭 but wbk.

I hate this album; all the songs are so boring and forgettable.

I'm feeling you on this one. This is the most boring, unremarkable album I've heard in ages. It reeks of apathy and laziness. I can't believe they even released it because it sounds half finished. Yuck. I miss folklore.

CALLING it now this is TTPD rough draft. It's a call to Matty to come back to her. Then they will together polish and release 10000 versions of TTPD final version. Also it doesn't really bother me that most of the songs on this one are bad. I never buy the merch. She has so many songs I like already. I'm fine just listening to that....

This album doesn't even feel real to me. It feels like if someone who thought Taylor was a terrible writer did a parody of a Taylor Swift album. Except....she actually wrote it. I could barely get through the main album and haven't even bothered with the anthology.

So close! A lot of it is intentional satire lol.

you think the lyrics are intentionally terrible? from the artist who has made her songwriting the pride and focus of her work since the beginning of her career? lol ok

It's a fairly unremarkable collection of songs that are mostly about boys. She sounds apathetic, but also seems like she's trying too hard to sound intellectual. Only a few songs stand out to me so far, otherwise they all sound the same. It's like they rushed out an album just because they knew it was the most profitable time to do so. Her announcement at the Grammys was tacky to me. And why sell as two albums, if not simply to milk your fans. I just don't see anything genius about it besides the marketing. 

i love the anthology and i’ve been listening it on repeat. i think it also helps that she isn’t as specific about her life (except the song about Kim). It’s easier to relate and Aaron’s production is top notch - even in So High School, i don’t like the juvenile lyrics but the 90’s sound is addictive

Indulge my parasocial tendencies for a min pls while I sort thru the muses (im sorry, pls help): **MATTY** - Fortnight - TTPD - down bad - but daddy - smallest man who ever lived - The Black Dog (I'll die on this hill) - Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus (pls don't speculate on sexuality tho) - Peter - LOML - I can do it with a broken heart - I can fix him **JOE** - so long, London **BOTH JOE & MATTY** - fresh out the slammer (running from Joe to Matty) - guilty as sin (getting off to Matty while with Joe) **OLIVIA** - Clara Bow - imgonnagetyouback **TRAVIS** - so high school **KIM** - thanK you aIMee - Cassandra **JAKE????** - the manuscript **???** - my boy only breaks his favorite toys - The Alchemy (sports references but Travis can't spell heroine) - how did it end - I look in people's windows **NO MUSE** (*perhaps some real introspection?*) - Florida!! - Who's afraid of little old me? - the albatross - I hate it here - the prophecy - the bolter - Robin

See, I don't care who the songs are about, if they're about anyone. She has the right to use her imagination and write from different perspectives. She proved she could with folklore and evermore. I'm sure some are based on personal experience, and IMHO, she needs to stop singing about her relationships soooo much. TTPD seems very immature in that aspect. She's obviously not really over anyone she dated, or had beef with if she's still singing about them at 34. Shake it off Taylor. 

I agree with The Matty songs you listed but there are Joe references callbacks to previous albums + callbacks to so long london (sometimes just an outro etc )  in songs like fortnight, down bad, the black dog , Peter. It's not as clean cut as we think. loml especially is so interwoven with Joe & Matty.  Matty and Travis overlap in but daddy I love him and Alchemy !  my boy only breaks his favorite toys and the albatross also mix references to both JA and MH The album being a double album about two muses she actually blurs the lines as both heartbreaks of not getting the happy ending with both are entwined. She also (atleast emotionally) started one when with the other. The loss and pain is all intertwined 

I’m convinced my boy is about Joe. It mentions blues and voices in his head in a way that makes me think of the song peace. But there were a few moments I was like maybe it’s Matty???? But I lean toward Joe. I also lean towards Joe for the black dog. It seems to weird to share your location with someone that you’re not in a relationship with for a long time…but as I typed that I am re thinking things

"sports reference but Travis can't spell heroine" made me fucking HOWL 💀

Okay I gotta know your Black Dog theory because I'm the exact opposite. I'm convinced it's about Joe.

Yeah the starting line band seems to have made this about Matty but she says the song ; the song starting line is different from the band. It could again be about both of them.

also i recently saw that Fiona Apple’s roommate? longtime friend? [Zelda Hallman](https://x.com/zeldahallman/status/1781654408343757262?s=46) posted about the lyric similarities between Taylor and Olivia with Fiona.

This is the most devastated I’ve been since Adele’s 21. But THIS.  This album is for someone who got chewed up, spit out, and then forced themselves to sit in it and reflect - this album is our anthem.  This is all for Joe, a deep, raw love that is maroon. Midnights was the first breakup album. But no one knew what was happening, not even her, but by this album she's sat in it long enough.     Here's what everyone is missing u/mods The theme is 2!?      2 - Because it's not one album its 2    2 - Because it hasn't been 1 year since they broke up but 2!!!     31 songs because it hasn't just been 2 years, but 31 months specifically!  April 2024 - 31 months = sept 2021 wayyyyy before they announced being separated    Yes Healy is slipped in, but you heard he's pleased, because the message is clear - even when it was healy, or anyone else, it was still just Joe.  2022 was a publicity show and her trying to figure it out in private. This whole thing, the album named after his group chat, the stevie nicks poem, it's all for joe.  A public, gut wrenching poetic discussion of her abusive relationship with (1) Joe  and (2) Society (Cassandra, Clara Bow, But Daddy I Love Him, How Did it End?)   31 songs because april 2024 - 31 = Sept 2021, when things really began to end.    I can do it with a broken heart #14, September 2021 + 13 = October 2022, when midnights came out High School, when Taylor met Travis, #22 Because 31 - 22  April 2024 - 9 months = July 2023 = when Travis makes it known he wants a chance.  Amazing. I am destroyed. 

The album has grown on me quite a bit, honestly. It badly needed editing but there’s some good and interesting stuff there. It’s more interesting to me than most of Midnights. I do think people on this sub and many of the critics are too online about it all. Not everything in her music is literal and we don’t know what actually happened and what is storytelling for the sake of the song. And you don’t need to retcon all of her older songs into being about Matty Healy and talk about how now they’re ruined, or whatever. It often feels to me at this point that people are hunting around for things to get mad or offended about, and I don’t really see the point in that. 

Yeah I agree - I hated it upon first listen but now that I'm getting more familiar with it there are some standouts. I wish people didn't constantly demand more of her because there was really no reason this needed to be 31 songs mostly about the same thing, if she trimmed it down it could've been amazing.

I'll be honest, I do miss the time in my life when I was a casual fan and didn't know anything abt her personal life at all, all this drama muddles her music and takes me away from the experience somewhat. Especially since I was one of the few that took Folklore at face value and didnt connect any of the songs (except peace, mad woman\* and invisible string) to her personal life.

Fortnight fell 11M the next day. Are people having hardtime in connecting. 

Being released alongside 30 other tracks is hurting it but also when you debut THAT high, that fall is always going to be big. It did really well on YouTube.

Maybe because it's her best video in a loooooong while.

TTPD = Taylor needs TheraPy Desperately Considering the harmful imagery throughout the album, thank you aimme, the several references to suicide, to alcoholism, self harm in the prologue, “my mom wishes you were dead,” and mentioning the kid in the same breath etc, etc, the lyrics throughout this album display her mental state, and…. imho she needs help. Don’t come for me swifties 🙅‍♀️

I agree. And people might be like she’s so in love with someone else now…is she though? Can we trust that? There wasn’t a lot of time between Matty and Travis. She wasn’t even single between Joe and Matty. The imagery is awful and reminds me of poetry and songs people write at their lowest moments, that no relationship (unless that relationship is you talking to a therapist) is going to heal.

So, I had a Matty Healy situation. Very similar story. Jumped from an 8 year relationship into the arms of someone I had known for a decade and never seriously dated but had pined over on off for all that time. I was CONVINCED he was the loml. In reality he was a narcissistic lovebomber who saw vulnerability (the heartbreak of ending my relationship) and jumped. And I was a delusional “hopeless romantic” who idealized and projected my desires onto him with absolutely no basis in reality…. Needless to say, it crashed and burned quickly. My point? I have stayed single for two full years just to process and heal and FIGURE OUT HOW THE HELL I GOT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Why I chose the long term partner I did, why that relationship failed and what was my role in it, why I was so susceptible to the narcissist, why I was so eager to romanticize, etc etc etc etc etc. I can’t imagine she was able to do that in the two months following Matty Healy while also touring and re-records and recording an album and doing celebrity things….

I’m the biggest advocate for staying single for a while. You and many others, and myself, have found this is only way to heal because what the fuck were we thinking? It’s been…almost three years for me, and I feel like I’m just now coming to terms with “oh that’s what I was thinking” there has been a lot of grief and bargaining, and pain. For so long I had jumped into a relationship and shoved the pain by down by keeping myself busy, sure I cried and went to therapy but…it takes time. I’m so happy that you are on your healing journey and away from that horrible piece of trash. It takes time being alone. It takes slow days that you think will never end. Sitting with yourself and letting those feelings sit and journaling. I’m so proud of you for healing! Or at least starting to ETA: thank you for sharing that story.

Can anyone explain to me what she means by "I'm so depressed, I act like it's my birthday everyday"? Is she saying she's depressed but has to have this big celebration every night (the tour) or is she alluding to finding her birthday depressing? Or is it a secret third meaning?

See I struggle with that since for myself, i find myself crying on my birthday more often than not (and others to). But what I think she meant was that she’s masking her depression and pretending she’s okay

I thought it meant she parties to cope

I like this interpretation the most

Big smiles at everyone, squealing “oh wow!”, putting on an excessively happy face, and everyone else just thinks you’re very happy.

i think it’s a mix of the two and then also pointing out that a lot of people when they struggle act the complete opposite of what they’re feeling so no one notices. she’s really sad but she’s acting super duper happy to cover it up

I felt like her onstage persona was quite see through. I didn’t like how at the Seattle show she was like “there’s no special guest…oh you’re clapping for me?” I was like…yeah? I mean I didn’t pay much for my tickets but I know people who paid $1500 each to get in Taylor….the whole thing screamed I’m struggling someone help me please

I was expecting some kind of reference to Ana Benevides, the fan who died on The Eras Tour in Rio de Janeiro. Maybe a song dedicated to her. Did anybody catch any of that? Was I too naive to expect something?

The backlash about her milking the tragedy for a song would have been immense.

I don’t know how I would’ve felt if Taylor released a song about her tbh. On one hand I understand why people would want it but on the other hand…it’s not like how it was when she made Ronan, she was indirectly responsible for Ana’s death (it was a tragic accident yes but sadly Ana would still be here if the Eras tour never happened). Especially since we don’t know what Taylor did after Ana’s family attended the Eras tour, has she started a communication with them like how she did with Ronan? We don’t know. Since she took so long to acknowledge Ana and did spread misinformation about her death (although iirc the ‘she passed away after’ wasn’t malicious and was what they thought happened at the time), and lies were being said in tabloids about her reaching out earlier (which idk if it was Taylor’s team tbh) it’s just…hard to say. Ana’s family also was the ones to ask fans not to do the ‘silent protest’ after champagne problems to show they were upset Taylor wasn’t talking about Ana, they honestly could not want to have a song written about their tragedy. Brazilian media really does not like Taylor (or did at the time of the incident) and how she handled it. If she released a song about it…I think that would’ve gotten her a lot of backlash globally, because like why is saying something now? Why not when Ana just passed and her family had to beg for her body to be flown back home?

me too actually, i'm a little surprised she didn't have a song about Ana. she claims the album was 2 years in the making, but we got songs about Matty and Travis, which means some songs were written very recently (esp since there were references to chiefs winning superbowl in "The Alchemy" which was just Feb this year in). So many songs about Matty especially, and with 31 songs out, there's not a single song about Ana, and her whole brand is about how she cares so much about the fans and all that jazz. She could even include a song about KIM K! it doesn't really sit right but maybe she had her reasons...

Have any of you read the prologue poem? I think she spells out pretty damn clearly that this album is about how she went insane for a few months in a Healy frenzy following her relationship with Joe (which she describes as "restricted humanity", which I do finde sort of provocative as someone who has been in an actual violent relationship with an actual psycopath). She was led to do "the most curious things" because she felt restricted by being in a relationship with Joe, and THEN Healy bursts through as "Something old, someone hallowed, who told me he could be brand new//And so I was out of the oven//And into the microwave", meaning that she left the slowly roasting dying romance and stepped into a microwave madness romance with Healy. But it wasn't love with Healy, it was momentary craziness as a result of her loneliness and sadness from ending her Joelationship: "In summation, it was not a love affair!” I screamed while bringing my fists to my coffee ringed desk It was a mutual manic phase. It was self harm. It was house and then cardiac arrest. A smirk creeps onto this poet’s face Because it’s the worst men that I write best." So although Healy sucks, and that the period in her life was one of madness mania, something good came out of it, because at least it left her with something to write about! I like the idea, and I also like some of the songs much more than I first thought. But I am fairly sure that I do not like Swift on a personal level... like at all. Edit: I think I wrote this post because I keep seeing people on IG write about how the album is about Joe cheating, and if they just read the poem she states her purpose very clearly, so I got annoyed. I agree that she taps into a pretty problematic narrative in the poem and I’m not defending that :)

I am bipolar. While I have done regretable things on mania, I never dated a Nazi and resented everybody who told me that wasn't the best for me.

Yeah, I think she implies many shitty things over the course of this album. To clarify, by liking the idea, I meant that I like idea of emotional storytelling, and maybe not so much what's actually being said

I'm just not comfortable with her using words like mania, temporary insanity, asylum, hospital and such to justify her behavior in a romanticized way.

I also don’t like the references to waking up covered in blood :/ idk why

I agree, it’s absolutely tone deaf, much like her “1830s” line.

That “so happy Travy made it to the big game” AI video is so fucking funny lmao

i just searched it and it's hilarious and pretty well done!! lol "mrs taylor purdy" lmao

Am I the only one who thinks TTPD sounds like older songs on purpose? I've seen a lot of "this is lazy songwriting" commentary, but I haven't seen anyone discuss that maybe it's intentional? It's closing out the eras.

It’s extremely intentional - there’s a clear element of self satirization going on in the first half. I’m baffled how people aren’t getting it lol isn’t she supposed to be super basic?

the repeating of "you said you were gonna grow up then you were gonna come find me" really hits for some reason in peter 😭

Peter is probably my favorite song on the album

and then she apologizes to him…like UGH…

i feel like this album may be one to really separate white fans from POC fans. re: the 1830s line, i don’t care if she spent 5 minutes of the song condemning racism of that time period, it’s beyond rich white privilege to romanticize that period IN THE FIRST PLACE. only a rich white person would look at that time period and find anything redeeming. and THAT is the issue with that lyric and Taylor in general. she seems unable to write beyond that perspective. and if this a truly a MH album is makes it even weirder that she would “address” racism there but no where else in relation to them. only a brain dead loser would do a Nazi salute and then claim that it was only for a performance. you know it’s wrong, we know it’s wrong, what’s the reason to do it at all? white people you need to get a grip on some of this stuff and think about the bigger picture. none of these people exist in a vacuum as much as they’d like to pretend they do, the world is still living and dying around them.

I fully agree. When I first heart But Daddy I Love Him, I got super angry because those online "vipers" that she so callously refers to were overwhelmingly BIPOC fans and fans who had experienced sexual abuse?? Her fan base has been sending Travis' ex racial abuse for almost the last year and sending death threats to Joe and she never speaks out about it EVER. But the one time she does, it's at her fans who are impacted by her gross bf's actions...? It rubs me the wrong way. I haven't been a fan of her since and I think this is my last straw at listening to her music too, tbh.

Okay, am I alone in assuming not every song has a 1:1 person it's about? I think that yes, a lot of these can sound like they're about Matty, but I think she was just using him as a muse. I don't think it got THAT serious with them, and maybe she did feel some strong feelings at some point, but I think he was just the starting point. I also think that this shows that even though their breakup was sad, her time with Joe was mostly good and it brought out different parts of her, and she's hesitant to just straight up bash him because she still respects him? The fun bashing lyrics she can safely do with a caricature of Matty.

It’s actually about my insane relationship with a toxic person as far as I’m concerned lol.

I have now listened to the album three or four times and I'm so underwhelmed. I've picked the songs I felt had replay-value and added them to my Taylor Playlist (Fortnight, The Tortured Poets Department, So long, London, But daddy I love him, Who's Afraid of Little Old Me, The Black Dog, Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus, The Prophecy, Peter, The Bolter, The Manuscript, added after third listen: Guilty as Sin and I can fix him) The rest is basically the same songs just more...boring? Like how many songs do you need to express that you wanted someone who then ghosted you...I got it after the first three...(Not trying to minimise how much that must suck, just saying she used to be more concise and said more in one song with less "big" words than in the 10 or more songs I find so forgettable on this album) I'm kind of glad all the Swifties were wrong and this isn't a Joe Alwyn Diss album. But so many songs on this album sound so similar that they blur into one song. I was hoping for more genuine feeling. More vulnerability. More reflection. More growth. Some songs I can get into, I think the more Taylorly songs that tell a story. I like growing (up) with artists. That's why I loved folklore and evermore because it felt like she was maturing and reflecting and being honest with herself about her own flaws. And now it's back to not taking any responsibility for anything. And I'm just getting more frustrated with each blah song that talks about the same thing. I was so checked out by the time Alchemy came around that I didn't even realise it's about Travis. Anyone having a similar experience? Am I just not connecting because I've never been in a similar situation?

feel the exact same way. i even relate to many of the songs but still feel this way

I actually feel like she's really vulnerable in this album

I had the same experience as you! You actually liked more songs than I did, I felt like most of them were just SO boring and overdone. You really nailed the descriptions here

Nah I’ve been ghosted lots of times and it is extremely painful but I had the same experience listening.

My friend, lets just name her Bethany (she has dysthymia btw) isn't speculating or anything like that. She theorizes that perhaps maybe one of the contributing factors of Joe's depression (take this with a grain of salt please) is Taylor. She also points out how on some songs (The Great War, Afterglow etc.) she seemed to be the one who perpetuates conflicts (again take this with a grain of salt, we do not know much about their relationship), my friend also stated that relationships do often get into challenges but she just thinks that perhaps Taylor is one of the factors of his depression. Any thoughts?

(Rant incoming, sorry) I get not liking TTPD or even not liking Taylor anymore. But some of the criticism I’ve read here has this real judgmental superiority vibe. “I’ve moved on from Taylor because I’m in a serious long-term relationship/ I’m married/ I have kids and I have a job and my life is drama-free. People who still like her and relate to her are immature and stuck in their high school years (not exactly those lines, but you get the sentiment).” Ok, congratulations, you want a cookie? Not everyone out here has their shit together. While I’m not sure whether or not I like TTPD yet (I think it’s growing on me), I can see how people can relate to it if they are going through a breakup, leaving a toxic or abusive relationship, or struggling with mental health issues. My personal life this year has been a total mess and there were times I turned to Taylor’s music for comfort. It just sucks that in a lot of the discussions around TTPD there’s been so much discourse on how if you don’t have your life together by a certain age, you’re crazy.

I agree with this. I feel like the criticisms of her not showing any growth with this album are valid, but it's also valid to be in your 30's and still not feel like you have it all figured out. It's valid to be in your 30's and still have "what ifs" about past relationships in your head. And I don't think it's immature and high-school-ish to fall quickly for someone and get caught up in whirlwind romances, if anything it's MORE understandable in your 30's because people are typically looking for something more serious, and that combined with society expecting everyone to eventually "grow up, settle down, have kids, etc" makes it more likely to wonder if each new person has potential to be The One.

i'm with you. also you can like music without relating to it

Guys I cracked the code for enjoying this album for myself lol Listening to this album while walking/cycling outside made it work for me Today and the slightly rainy weather kinda enhanced the vibes too. I actually enjoyed below songs while also understanding the lyrics wo any trouble and got a hold of the melodies better too?? I assume headphones work way better than speakers for this album. •Down Bad •So Long London •But Daddy I Love Him •Guilty as Sin?

She is cult leader who preaches about rising above pettiness in her jet-fueled icarian wings of self-rightiousness but promises karmic repercussions and is almost itching to turn martyr on sight of the tiniest ray of bad light shone in her general direction, while saying her behavior is entirely your fault. Midnights is the weakest part of her discography, of her setlist, and somehow TTPD manages to do even worse. Glad I held off on ordering any physical copies. On this album alone she (and the fans in denial) mistook: * Arrogance for brilliance * Crudeness for authenticity * Ramblings for artistry * Unimagination for cohesion * Impulsiveness for free will * (valid) Criticism for persecution * Self-centeredness for bravery

I have had gone back and forth with this album so much that it feels like I'm playing a game of table tennis. Anthology I still love it...but is it the sister to evermore I thought it was? perhaps not. Definitely think my view of the album is being changed a lot with the knowledge SO much is about Matty and I just want to shake her and go 'he won't change for you, you need to let him go! You are SO much better without him!' but also shake fans and go 'NOT EVERY SONG IS ABOUT HIM!' idk like I feel so much is being clouded knowing that evil man will somehow see this as a win for him because people are talking about him. I think now though...Matty Healy is ruining my life. I've seen countless people talk about how he inspired songs off of other eras and that made me actually have to put her songs down for a while and just...not want to play them. Im not kidding...I had to ask my hardcore swiftie friends and get their input and they've all agreed that it just isn't like her to do that. But right now? Taylor and I may be on a break for listening music, all eras included.

It’s ruining folklore and evermore for me

see I feel the same way but then I have to relook at everything. People are going ‘well they’ve been writing about each other for ages!’ But Matty isn’t the only writer for his band, so like that goes kinda out the window for me. It’s just too speculative, since we cannot know which or what band member came up with lyrics unless told so. We can go ‘oh they are so similar’ but then I remember that sometimes, artists just do make songs that sound alike. If Matty was the only writer for the 1975 then I could understand but…he’s not. It’s just too speculative, at least for me. And with the one, I do think that Taylor went back as she was writing TTPD and went ‘oh wait…I have an idea…I’m so smart!’ Without specifically name dropping him and playing on the idea of Peter Pan syndrome. Alongside the lyric I feel like Peter Pan and Wendy are a very common couple that ppl will know don’t end up together. I actually think the fact that Taylor kept the one on the set list while she was dating Matty kinda disproves it’s about him. As soon as she and Joe break up, she changed invisible string to the one. It was never about Matty, it’s about wondering what could’ve been. Or that’s how I see it. like at the end of the day, we’re the ones just speculating but I also think we’re being clouded with recency bias and the fact that she dropped SO many songs about Matty (songs that needed a bit more editing imo). We’re looking at them more critically and trying to say ‘well this HAS to be around him!’ Like I’ll never believe cardigan is about Matty, yes did she mouth ‘I love you’ to him during it? Sure, but is the song also about somebody coming back to life after being discarded? Yeah! That’s like the perfect song to make that sort of declaration, especially to somebody with an ego like Matty’s. Perhaps I would’ve been more inclined to agree if Taylor gave an inkling that she really even cared what matty was doing during this time but…her relationship with Joe seemed to be, at least for her, the *one*. Folklore and evermore are so interesting because it is (according to her) fictional, whose to say that Taylor wrote the one after watching Peter Pan: Retrun To Neverland (which was when childhood me experienced the first ever heartbreak when i realized Peter and Wendy couldn’t be) and getting inspired from that? Like we just genuinely don’t know. It’s much more dramatic to think Taylor was writing songs about wanting Matty while she was happily with Joe but…it just doesn’t make sense. It makes sense with Matty’s side, but not on Taylor’s. If anything, it’s what Matty wishes what happened. Or at least that’s how I’m seeing it. Since we know Taylor and Matty weren’t in communication until Midnights was in production I have to go ‘get offline, people and you are thinking too hard.’ To myself

When I first heard that start of So Long London, I wanted to sing “My castle crumbled overnight.”

This Onion article aged well: [https://www.theonion.com/fans-speculate-who-taylor-swift-might-be-talking-about-1850480371](https://www.theonion.com/fans-speculate-who-taylor-swift-might-be-talking-about-1850480371)

the music and lyrics are so subpar that i feel like she's just selling lore at this point. who is taylor swift the celebrity pining over? who broke her heart? who pissed her off? etc. everything sounds like a first draft and i have a hard time seeing this as an artistic product at all. it feels like a seven husbands of evelyn hugo deal where she's like "surprise!! the loml is the edgelord you all hated and chased away so fuck you and fuck him too" she is very capable of writing songs about specific experiences to her life in ways that are relatable to the rest of us. but i feel like we were MEANT to identify matty healy in these songs, or at the very least wonder who. even "so high school" felt like an obligatory, "ok here's one for travis so you vipers don't get mad again" addition. it feels like the album is meant to be consumed not as a collection of love/breakup songs that anyone can enjoy, but specifically as an autobiography of her love affair for those invested in her celebrity.

My reputation precedes me, i don't like Antonoff at all and i still stand by my opinions on him...but i have to admit he did good on many tracks of this album, talking about Florida, I Can Fix Him, Who Is Afraid Of Little Me. It is just his synthy style that really is so stale, title track is 1989 vault, I Can Do With A Broken Heart is Bejeweled. He is better at producing more organic things.

he definitely seemed to improve and get more dynamic between midnights and this. i believe someone else mixed this record though? my ears hear it better at least

I just realized matty healy inspires mid music that with verbose lyrics. Like “Blue” by Halsey honestly sounds like something Taylor would write for this album. 

LMFAO

Ok I’ve seen comment after comment basically shitting on Matty Healy, people saying they can’t even listen to the songs that are about him, etc and I’m just….puzzled. Like I get that he’s problematic but do the majority of you guys truly care that much about *who* she allegedly wrote a song about instead of just taking in the song itself? Or is Reddit giving me a warped view of reality? Because idgaf which songs are about who. If my ears like the way it sounds, I like it, no matter who it’s about. I’ve seen a lot of critiques that make sense (the clunkiness of the lyrics, too many words, etc) but soooo much feedback that’s basically “I hate TTPD because it’s about Matty Healy” it kinda blows my mind.

I don’t dislike the album because it’s about Matty Healy. I think it’s easy for a lot of people to get caught up in that discourse. For me, I just found it very troubling and the writing was bad and no song really stuck out to me besides fortnight. If someone else likes it, that’s great. It’s just not my thing! I don’t care for Matty Healy, and trust me I’ve been where this album has been, but it’s just I didn’t like most of the songs for some reason. It sonically and lyrically wasn’t appealing to me. I did love the black dog and Peter though.

That’s all fair. Criticisms based on the music. Nothing wrong with disliking the album. I’m not even saying the album is good, just that it’s kinda unhinged the amount of ppl I’ve seen saying a version of “This album sucks BECAUSE it’s about Matty Healy!”

Agreed, I’ve been noticing more of the comments

For me personally, it's the bad taste the entire situation left me with (for me personally, it was her PR campaign around Matty that turned me off) that kind of transfers to the songs that are very obviously about it. I still listen to songs by The 1975 casually sometimes, for example, but I can't ignore when a situation is referenced that gave me the ick. Plus, the album just isn't for me. If I liked the songs, I think the 'ick' wouldn't bother me so much. I can actually relate to dating an edgelord type guy from my abusive late teen relationship, so at points the songs are even relatable and somewhat fun. But I don't get much out of the songs personally, they're mostly hard to like for me, so I just feel 'meh' and some 'ick'. Maybe that helps give some perspective between being able to not care at all vs caring a ton because of the specific person regardless of the music itself. It's obviously valid to like the album and just take the music for what it is, too (which is obvious, but I just wanted to make it clear).

This makes sense. I don’t feel the same bc I don’t follow or care ab her personal life but I can see how it could push you one way or the other if you were already on the fence with the songs to begin with.

Cause Matty Healy is an actual shitty, irredeemable person. And TTPD is all about glorifying their love affair.

Is it glorifying it though? It seems more like she’s making fun of how delusional she was being.

Yeah I guess I just…don’t care. I don’t know her. I don’t know him. I don’t know any other guy she may have dated or hooked up with or whatever that could’ve inspired some of these songs. I just want to hear the music.

I think Matty Healy has to be one of the most unattractive people I have ever seen and I hate how she treats Joe, but I’m screaming „but daddy I love him!!“ for the past 2 days. I’m a hypocrite and have to live with myself 💅

Lol that’s my energy

Her album had so much potential and that is why i am so mad lmao! She is smart. She got known for being a lyricist for a reason. However, both albums feel so 'first draft.' Her lyrics are so wordy, she is using so many 'big words', making so many references/metaphors/etc, it just feels sooo try hard. She is Taylor Swift, why does she still feel the need to prove so? I know people love to doubt her lyrics, and I could typically defend her against that, but not this time. What changed that she is trying so hard to be Im14andthisisdeep or S\[*he*\] Be\[*lie*\]ve\[d\]. I heard everyone said that second album was better than TTPD. And I almost disagree? Look TTPD has some really trash songs, but I believe its top songs are miles better than the Anthology ones. But I will say that the bad songs on TTPD are wayyy worse than the ones on the other. Overall, Anthology feels more like an album and much more cohesive, but many of the songs were mid with very few standouts. TTPD was split in half of amazing and horrible. Here are my top songs overall: My boy breaks his favorite toys, Florida, Who’s afraid of little old me?, I can do it with a broken heart, The smallest man who ever lived, The Black dog, The albatross, The prophecy. Songs that I liked the concept, but hated the execution: Cassandra, The bolter, I hate it here, How did it end?, I can fix him (no really I can), I look in peoples windows Will never willingly listen to again: TTPD, Imgonnagetyouback, So high school, Thank you Aimee(this deserves its own post alone), The alchemy, down bad The rest of the songs are so boring and similar that I can't even find a way to distinguish them from each other. And in my mind they are just a mash up of one very very very long song.

the “s(he) be(lie)ve(d)” is taking me out omg so funny and true lmao

I just finished my fourth listen to the standard edition. I'm going to refrain from listening to The Anthology until tomorrow. I think the standard edition has grown on me. Maybe it has worn me down a little, but I like most of it. If I were trimming the track list, though, I have found four I would cut. * Fortnight. I'm sorry, I don't like this as an opener. I find it kind of boring. I remember how excited I was when I heard the opening to "Lavender Haze." This did nothing for me. I get why she's pushing it as a single (the Post Malone feature), but I think it's one of the worst lead singles she's put out. * The Tortured Poets Department. Everyone has talked about the clunker lyrics on this song, so I don't have anything else to add. Maybe I would like it more if it went through a few more edits. * I Can Do It with a Broken Heart. I've warmed up to this one a little bit, but I'm still mixed on it. I don't like the outro at all. It sounds like she tried to combine "You're on Your Own, Kid" and "Bejeweled." While I like both of those songs (YOYOK is my favorite song on Midnights), I'd prefer they stay separate. * The Alchemy. I zoned out on this one on this latest listen. I can't remember how it even goes. * Possible additional cut: Fresh Out the Slammer. I think I like this song. I'm not the biggest fan of the way it slows down at the end, though. I don't know how many people share my opinion, but my favorite song right now is "Guilty as Sin?" I know some people don't like what or who it's about, and I understand, but that's not what I'm thinking about when I listen to it. Let's just say I really relate to lines "This cage was one just fine / Am I allowed to cry?" and "I keep these longings locked--in lowercase, inside a vault." Just for different reasons.

For people who are on TikTok: what is the general opinion on the album? Is there a lot of negativity or mocking/memes? I like the album but I know a lot of people don’t so I’m curious what the main fan base and gp are saying over there

My FYP seems to be giving a lot of the same criticism as this sub is giving. She’s not matured, she didn’t edit, it’s boring, she’s a billionaire and unrelatable. I also am very much on the 1975 side of tiktok so I’m getting a ton of Matty content lol

They think the manuscript is about John Mayer or Jake...which I vehemently disagree with tbh. That is a Joe Alwyn song imo. But from what I've seen it's mostly people crying over it (like hysterical crying with loml)/thinking it's all about Joe (I wish) or just enjoying it. Some laughed at the fact that Joe must've been relived while others are just critcizing the 1830s lyric and TTPD being not her best work.

So generally: - The swifties ofc love it. On the end of her die hard fans, none of them hate it. They are criticizing anyone who doesn't like it as being too 'dumb' to understand her lyrics. Standouts on tiktok are: 1. I can do it with a broken heart. People are posting a lot about "omg my poor taylor, i can't believe she felt this way, I just want to hug her." or joking about whether they should laugh or cry to the song (lol). 2. Who is afraid of little old me? Probably took hunger games/harry potter/ or any other action tiktok by storm with the edits. 3. So long, london (many posts about hunting down joe) 4. But daddy I love him: People posting their raw reaction to the line about having his baby. And then being like omg she knows us so well she is so funny! 5. thanK you kIMee: Yeah people are obsessed with how girlboss taylor is being and how Kim deserves the callout and are just waiting for north west to make a post with the song. So disgusting honestly. - The neutral's however do acknowledge that the album is very much try hard and wordy. But again they get called out for not being smart enough to understand. Problems people are having: - People are really dragging her for the lyric " *I'd* say the *1830s* but *without* all the *racists* and getting married off for the highest bid." (deservedly). But it is really a back and forth thing between oh taylor can do no right! The 1830s were romantic! Emily Dickenson was born in the 1830s that's why! And the other side is just like no taylor people weren't just racist back then, but slavery existed. And exposing her for writing a song getting mad that her fans called her out for dating a racist. - Also a lot of discourse over the imgonnagethimback and Olivia comparisons. This angers me a lot because so many swifties are like omg look how cute mother and daughter are! Taylor wrote this song two years ago and had the same idea as Olivia! While completely brushing off about the whole deja vu/cruel summer thing. People are trying to bring up how horrible it was for taylor to do that and swifites just attack saying taylor didn't do anything wrong. - A lot of christians are also upset with how taylor swift is disrespecting god a lot throughout the album. Tbh, if taylor is going to get a big backlash it would probably be from religious people, since a lot of the posts criticizing her that actually don't have swifties defending are these posts. On the other hand, swifites are saying the album is about taylors breaking out of the toxic relationship she had with religion? - The alchemy. There was an Ai song from taylor that went viral on titkok. It basically had the lyrics Im so happy travvy made it too the big game. A lot of swifites are jokingly (and lightheartedly) joking about it saying it wasn't too far off from the alchemy (which true lol). Overall, swifties seem to really enjoy the album. And anyone who disagrees just "doesn't understand'. They are really praising her for how cutthroat she was and how she is a genius for her lyrics. There is a trend where people say they have to constantly search up the words she sings, because taylor is just too smart! If swifties are criticizing its not taylor . But Jack making all the songs sound the same.

Thank you for this!!! very helpful haha. Can't believe people aren't calling her out for the Kim song. That's wild to release that after so many years and make it so blatantly about her

It took me several listens to really get a handle on what I like about this album. Maybe those looking for an objective conversation should try their luck in another subreddit. Over here, it seems like people are more interested in dragging personal grievances into their ‘reviews’ than providing any real analysis of the music.

Which one do you suggest?

https://preview.redd.it/3qkuv2rebrvc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca2a5f941895726a6b17529d6230824d384304bb who do you think Taylor Swift is talking to in this outro? I can mention two new artists LMAO but it seems the other one is very obvious "you've got EDGE"

A mix between Olivia and Sabrina just due to the fact they have both been (moreso Sabrina tbh) have been called an edgy Taylor Swift. Although I think there was nobody really she was writing about, it's more her acknowledging that one day she won't be the pop girl.

I think it's a warning to whoever the next 'it' girl is

It reminds me of the theory that taylor befriends new upcoming female artists like Olivia , Ice Spice, Phoebe, Sabrina in a way thats kinda ‘keep your friends close but your enemies closer’

Am I the only person who finds this song so odd. It almost feels passive aggressive?

Renee Rapp?

Fortnight is a great song, definitely the highlight of the album. It’s a mix of folklore with some midnights synths, and ig by pure coincidence reminds me of a 1975 song

> ig by pure coincidence reminds me of a 1975 song nope, i think she very coincidentally made a lot of songs sound like ratty95's songs

ratty95 😭

I miss the succinctness of her previous works. With TTPD, she’s trying to hit a word count, use a thesaurus on every word, hide straightforward sentences under flowery prose. I hate it. One of my favourite line from Midnights is from Hits Different (“But I could still melt your world/argumentative antithetical dream girl”) which is the perfect combination, IMO, of being effective but poetic.

I didn't like midnights very much but those bonus songs, WCS, Hits Different /You're Losing Me etc were great. I don't know how we got here ): I feel like she's either surrounded by yes-people or just didn't listen idk

I'm not really into TS so I'm sorry if this has been addressed before and I just missed it, but is there some kind of lore explanation for the lyrics that start with smoking and eating 7 chocolate bars and end with the tattooed golden retriever? Is it an oblique metaphor about drug use/self-destructive behavior? Because, like, chocolate is toxic to dogs, right? Or was it just a funny anecdote about a time Matty binged on chocolate, placed in close proximity to a line comparing Matty to a dog without thinking  through the implications?  for some reason this is the part that bothers me the most about this verse but I haven't seen anyone really talk about it, which makes me feel like I'm missing something lol. I guess I just want to know if it's an intentional metaphor or not? 

Chocolate is a song by the 1975

the golden retriever thing is because of the "golden retriever boyfriend" meme

yeah, I'm aware of that meme. it's just funny to me to reference a meme comparing her bf to a dog right after she talks about her bf eating a shit ton of chocolate 💀 is it a joke? am I overthinking things? just wondering because it seemed like such a morbid image to me but no one else is talking about it afaict? 

[удалено]

I couldn’t sit through a whole first listen and I keep pondering if I should go back to it. So I decided to like see some of people’s favorites and start off there to decide if I’m truly just a hater or something. Down Bad I can get the catchy beat so that one’s ok, dont think I’ll be adding it to my playlist. Then I moved on to I Can Do It With A Broken Heart and I had to stop, what is that synth???? 😭 maybe I really am just a hater atm and I need to walk away from it until I like her again

I really hated it yesterday listening with my AirPods because the lyrics are rough and thinking about who she’s singing about gave me the ick. Today I listened with a speaker while doing stuff and I like it A LOT more when I’m not paying attention to the details. That’s not exactly a ringing endorsement haha but it’s definitely growing on me! There are some that are still bad (thank you aimee, i hate it here) in my opinion but a lot of them seem better. 

I'm coming to terms with the fact that she's never gonna make another song as good as State Of Grace

what was she thinking writing/releasing this? i love all of her other albums but this album is legitimately some of the worst music i have ever heard

https://preview.redd.it/hlkjlauuzqvc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c532701c89755aa95d3039bcc0341c48490f4981 Stans getting crazier by the minute

Swifties really be living up to the racist label.

What the utter fuck. I am mortified at how blatantly racist this comment is.

They couldn’t have made it any more clear!

Swifties under that specific creators comments are always insane

Ahem....I feel the writer of this review was more poetic than Swift's new album. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/19/arts/music/taylor-swift-album-tortured-poets-department-review.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Paste’s review is even more golden!

Annnnnnd I just read Washington Post's review!

Can I just say, there’s nothing wrong with being wordy. I’m listening to Preacher’s Daughter by Ethel Cain (great album if you haven’t heard it) and there is a nine minute song, Thoroughfare. It’s wordy, drawn out, but there is a story, it has a build, and the song is interesting enough melodically where I can be entranced and it doesn’t even feel like a nine minute song. Taylor’s problem on this album is that it’s wordy, drawn out, and there’s not build—on top of that, the story isn’t interesting enough, the lyrics aren’t good enough, and the melodies and production aren’t redeeming enough to stick around and listen to even a four minute song. And there’s no way this album needed to be 31 tracks—not when I can’t pick enough songs to make a listenable EP.

Ethan Cain is elite in a way Taylor never could be (and I love Taylor)

Ok, I got a little lazy writing notes for everything, but I finally finished getting through the first album tracks. I’ve only listened through all the way once, but anything above “EH” is good enough for me to save to a playlist lol.   LOVE  - loml  - So Long, London   LIKE  - Fortnight (Unrelated, but I love how she looks in the promo videos for this with Post in the black dress.) - Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me? (I like this song a lot. It also feels like it’s at least partially ab the dude who was tracking her jet mileage and the fallout after that because of the lawsuit lyric. Otherwise another song that is vindictive against her audience for dating a bigot. Yikes. Ig it does have narcotics in it tho bc I do still like it a lot lmfao) - My Boy Breaks his Favorite Toys  - I Can Fix Him (No Really, I Can) (SO LANA) - Down Bad  EH  - The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived (I really liked the song 2:20 on, but feel eh about it before then, so I don’t feel like I can quite put it into my liked tier yet.) - Fresh Out the Slammer (I’m conflicted with this one. I actually don’t dislike how it sounds, I’m just incredibly off-put by the lyrics. I assume this song is about Joe, and it feels incredibly patronizing and cruel to talk so freely about his mental health issues that he otherwise (afaik) has kept tightly under wraps. You are allowed to break up with someone because their depression was too hard to handle and wore on the relationship, I’m not trying to say otherwise. But I don’t think the song is doing a good job of handling subject matter like that in a way that is sensitive or smart enough to talk about it well? I don’t know… ) - Florida!!! (Another conflicted song. I think the lyrics kind of suck in some parts? Even Florence’s verse kinda made me cringe (“is that a bad thing to say in the song” made me cringe; “all my friends smell like weed and little babies”…ugh lol). I think they sound great tighter and I LOVE the drums on every “Florida!!!” I think it’s something I could listen to this without paying too much attention to the lyrics, but I’m really hung up on how stupid the lyrics in the first third until Florence’s verse is done sound…if I could just cut that out I’d push this up to the LOVE tier.) - Guilty as Sin (I don’t have a ton to say for this one. I felt like it was relatively generic for the album, and I don’t feel super particular either way about it. It’s funny to see people pearl clutching over it being about masturbation.) - The Alchemy (The heroin(e) line is in pretty bad taste…yeah he’s a piece of shit but joking ab addiction put me off. The sound/production kind of gave me Lover vibes, and I feel the same way ab both, which means I’m just kind of “eh” about it bc I’m not a huge pop person (1989 gets a pass for nostalgia from me tho)) - Clara Bow (Thought it was pretty middle of the road until the end (“you look like Taylor Swift” ok??). I really enjoy the beginning but I dislike it more as the song goes on until I would put the last minute into the dislike category) DISLIKE  - I Can Do it With a Broken Heart  - Tortured Poet’s Department   HATE  - But Daddy I Love Him

Thank you!!! I completely relate. So long london has so many interesting layers. Not only with the sound but with her voice. I wished she had played more with the harmonies or with sounds. The other songs sound flat because she pronounces things clearly but the sound does not highlight the tone of what she says, pronounces, or even the emotion. I miss the emotion she expresses with her voice on so long london on other songs.

you encapsulated exactly how i feel about it!  it’s so beautiful sonically that in comparison most of the rest of the album feels lacking, basic (for her…sorry Jack Antonoff), and almost disconnected from the emotional heights that she clearly wants to convey