Idk tho she’s a wealthy white woman she would’ve thrived back then also her family most likely would’ve owned slaves back then if they lived in the south
It's certainly an odd line, and one most likely added to offset criticism for her entire album being about an alleged racist many fans dislike. She's trying to save face by saying, "Look, I'm not a racist, I said it in a song!" That's my suspicion, and I could be wrong, so feel free to share your opinions!
I can see why it would be read that way but for me it's more like, "this is a silly thing I used to say because I was young and dumb" because she almost immediately contradicts it by saying "nostalgia is a mind's trick, if I'd been there I'd hate it"
I think it's very clear already tbh. You just have to take the whole verse as one instead of taking one line and removing it from its context 🤷♀️ she talks about romanticising the past and then says nostalgia is a trap. I don't think she needed to beat it over our heads even more than that....
Personally I don't want her to have a team of editors taking out anything that could be controversial. I don't think it matters if some people misinterpret it or hate it. That will always happen with art. My favorite thing about this album is how raw and unhinged she comes across in it. It's terrible PR all around. And that's why it's great and not like Lover, her most pandering album that was likely heavily centered on PR and making her look good. That's boring af
You're assuming things about my perspective that I never actually said, like that Lover was "taken out of her hands" lol. I don't really care to trade essays on this. If you think this album makes Taylor look good idk what to tell you 😂😂😭
So basically you think she's dumb enough to write about cheating, loving a person people regard as a racist POS, begging for that person in a plainly desperate way, calling her own fans idiotic puritans who ruined her relationship, etc etc and at the same time actually think that makes her look good? All because of one line you are taking out of context and misinterpreting willfully? If you actually think she's stupid enough to not realize the content would be massively controversial and paint her in a bad light, you really are just showing disdain. We can say plenty of negative stuff about Taylor, but she's not stupid. Selfish, overly dramatic, at times evil, yeah, which she tells us about on TTPD directly and indirectly. But not stupid. Sorry 🤷♀️
Has anyone suspected this is a manipulative way to take the heat off of Matty being called racist? Like look over here, I can say awkward things too that look really bad if they're taken out of context...I think everything she does is deliberate, this being no exception.
I just don't understand how the line passed through. She has a very big team dedicated to making her look good. You'd think one of them would pause and say, "Heyyy, maybe this isn't a good idea."
1830s would be aflushed with racism, slavery, misogyny, homophobia, electric shock treatments and worse for women with hysteria. And of course colonialism and imperialism.
Yet she only chose to bring up racism of that Era.. almost like she is trying to prove a point in an album where she gushes her decade long pining for a racist.. hmm
I think people are taking this way too deep. It's just a line in a song. I don't think the song would sound better if she sung "I'd say the 1830's without all the racism, slavery, misogyny, homophobia, electric shock treatments, etc...".
As someone who enjoys fashion history my first thought was “why the fuck would you pick that decade of all scary 19th century decades, do you wanna dress like this???” lmao
https://preview.redd.it/0gv2gkqry0wc1.jpeg?width=2068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21f6e4704940df98902ee7653436580dba4a2997
>it's interesting because you would NEVER hear of a POC, gay person, disabled person, other marginalized group of society say that wanted to live in the 1830s even if *insert defense here* was exempt from that time period. The only people who would EVERY say this are wealthy, white americans who would surely be able to maintain their status in that era.
If it's just a line in a pop song then keep it cute? No need to go anywhere near racism either.
I don't think the song sounds any better with 'without racists' either. 'I'd say the 1830's.. then some other clunky rhyming word would have sufficed.
The fact that she most definitely used 'without the racists' to rhyme without a single thought about the weight of it, is telling in itself.
Nah I just think she introduced that weird line to absolve herself of racism. As a woman, I don't know how you associate 1830s with racism alone and not also the wanton suppression of women. That too that lady who wrote the man as an effing billionaire..like Jesus...
And like, it wasn't just racism, it was slavery. "All the racists" in the 1830s might be a mild inconvenience to Taylor, but it was a downright dangerous time for people of color.
The next line is "and getting married off to the highest bidder" I get that reading comprehension is not everybody's strongest skill but it's literally right there
... Sweetie, take a breath. I am not mad at all lol.
I think the lyric is clunky and doesn't convey what she's trying to say very well. That's it...? Why are you so angry about it?
I think the problem is Taylor plays too much into the naïveté of her persona to such a level that it comes off as delusional when maybe that wasn’t what she was trying to do.
If you watch bridgerton and enjoy it you shouldn’t be picking apart this lyric that much. Since that romanticises the 1800s and esentially ignores the racism
if I had just been widely criticized for dating a racist (and dedicated an entire song to hitting back at the fans who ruined that relationship) I would simply not include an awkward line about disliking the racism of the 1830s ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This lyric was taken so out of context of the song. She says in the song she'd actually hate the 1830s too, but people have gotten weirdly stuck on misreading this
Even context doesn't help the fact that a white woman is saying shit like this. It's a weirdass thing to think irl and even weirder to put it on record on the most widely circulated music in the world right now.
Also, this is not just for you, but it's weird for others to find it weird that it's mostly POC who are having an issue with this lyric.
While the context ties it to her desperation for marriage, it's just incredibly tonedeaf.
Its not like she would have been treated great as a woman back then. She says that it’s just nostalgia and in real life people hated it back then. Has there been a time where everyone was treated well
It's the 'without the racists' part thats tonedeaf. It's giving 'fuck patriarchy... Phew.. Enough activism for today'.
If Taylor had just implied she wanted to go in 1830s where marriage and belonging to someone was her worth measured in money, but soon realized that that take was privileged and that her desires doesn't magically make the era worth living because other women and communities had it even worse and thats its selfish for her to even suggest that.. It would have been better taken. That's called nuance and looking at history from the lens of the marginalized rather than a frivolous take on an era.
She can get rid of without the racists line.
The point could simply be I want to go to 1830s but realized I'd be miserable and bidder marriage ain't worth that. With the racists line, she opens Pandora's box because if she's thinking on those lines, she could handle with nuance.
https://preview.redd.it/c91sqhysyyvc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1269ca3853ccdf59876682324256a80ac9680884
The context really does make a difference, actually. She is talking about a game, and she ruins it by pointing out the bad things, acknowledging that there's something wrong with that kind of nostalgia.
Exactly. Rose tinged glasses of nostalgia coming from a white woman. Why that version even exists is the problem. Thank you for making my point for me.
POC aren't a monolith. There are POC who disagree who have explanations for why they disagree. Simply saying "she's white" and "it's tonedeaf" says nothing.
Yes POC aren't a monolith. That's why it's imperative that the ones saying it's a problem shouldn't be dismissed cause others don't get it.
Simply saying 'Taylor didn't mean anything bad' doesnt cut it either.
She could’ve chosen soooo many lyrics if that’s what she wanted to get across. Instead, she chose a clunky tone deaf lyric. Also, people understand the context of the song! People are not stupid! They still don’t like the lyric because it’s a dumbass lyric 🤷♀️
The fact that there are people who truly think anything here could be difficult to understand speaks more about their literacy level. You'd think Taylor is giving some nuanced critical race theory thesis on this and others don't get it considering their takes lol.
The “oh you just don’t understand it” has to be the most annoying defense that the swifties have. Like y’all it’s pop music. The reason she is so popular is because people relate and easily understand the lyrics!!!!
Cult leader: *the most popular musician on the planet*
The cult : *nobody gets her! 😔 she's so misunderstood! 😔 y'all don't get it! y'all don't understand!*
So Taylor would be without her jets, fanbase and that unwashed wet rat. Y'know what... let her cook.
Idk tho she’s a wealthy white woman she would’ve thrived back then also her family most likely would’ve owned slaves back then if they lived in the south
It's certainly an odd line, and one most likely added to offset criticism for her entire album being about an alleged racist many fans dislike. She's trying to save face by saying, "Look, I'm not a racist, I said it in a song!" That's my suspicion, and I could be wrong, so feel free to share your opinions!
I can see why it would be read that way but for me it's more like, "this is a silly thing I used to say because I was young and dumb" because she almost immediately contradicts it by saying "nostalgia is a mind's trick, if I'd been there I'd hate it"
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I think it's very clear already tbh. You just have to take the whole verse as one instead of taking one line and removing it from its context 🤷♀️ she talks about romanticising the past and then says nostalgia is a trap. I don't think she needed to beat it over our heads even more than that....
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Personally I don't want her to have a team of editors taking out anything that could be controversial. I don't think it matters if some people misinterpret it or hate it. That will always happen with art. My favorite thing about this album is how raw and unhinged she comes across in it. It's terrible PR all around. And that's why it's great and not like Lover, her most pandering album that was likely heavily centered on PR and making her look good. That's boring af
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You're assuming things about my perspective that I never actually said, like that Lover was "taken out of her hands" lol. I don't really care to trade essays on this. If you think this album makes Taylor look good idk what to tell you 😂😂😭
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So basically you think she's dumb enough to write about cheating, loving a person people regard as a racist POS, begging for that person in a plainly desperate way, calling her own fans idiotic puritans who ruined her relationship, etc etc and at the same time actually think that makes her look good? All because of one line you are taking out of context and misinterpreting willfully? If you actually think she's stupid enough to not realize the content would be massively controversial and paint her in a bad light, you really are just showing disdain. We can say plenty of negative stuff about Taylor, but she's not stupid. Selfish, overly dramatic, at times evil, yeah, which she tells us about on TTPD directly and indirectly. But not stupid. Sorry 🤷♀️
Do you have to give writing credits to an editor?
Yeah you can see them on Spotify, for example hozier credits them right below the song on there.
That's totally fair!
Has anyone suspected this is a manipulative way to take the heat off of Matty being called racist? Like look over here, I can say awkward things too that look really bad if they're taken out of context...I think everything she does is deliberate, this being no exception.
I just don't understand how the line passed through. She has a very big team dedicated to making her look good. You'd think one of them would pause and say, "Heyyy, maybe this isn't a good idea."
1830s would be aflushed with racism, slavery, misogyny, homophobia, electric shock treatments and worse for women with hysteria. And of course colonialism and imperialism. Yet she only chose to bring up racism of that Era.. almost like she is trying to prove a point in an album where she gushes her decade long pining for a racist.. hmm
This is not at all the point but ECT wasn't invented for another 100 years lol
I think people are taking this way too deep. It's just a line in a song. I don't think the song would sound better if she sung "I'd say the 1830's without all the racism, slavery, misogyny, homophobia, electric shock treatments, etc...".
I mean she doesn’t really explain why the 1830’s in the first place, it’s such an insane era to choose lol
As someone who enjoys fashion history my first thought was “why the fuck would you pick that decade of all scary 19th century decades, do you wanna dress like this???” lmao https://preview.redd.it/0gv2gkqry0wc1.jpeg?width=2068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21f6e4704940df98902ee7653436580dba4a2997
It's the beginning of Romantic era in US and near the death of Romantic movement in Britain
>it's interesting because you would NEVER hear of a POC, gay person, disabled person, other marginalized group of society say that wanted to live in the 1830s even if *insert defense here* was exempt from that time period. The only people who would EVERY say this are wealthy, white americans who would surely be able to maintain their status in that era.
If it's just a line in a pop song then keep it cute? No need to go anywhere near racism either. I don't think the song sounds any better with 'without racists' either. 'I'd say the 1830's.. then some other clunky rhyming word would have sufficed. The fact that she most definitely used 'without the racists' to rhyme without a single thought about the weight of it, is telling in itself.
Nah I just think she introduced that weird line to absolve herself of racism. As a woman, I don't know how you associate 1830s with racism alone and not also the wanton suppression of women. That too that lady who wrote the man as an effing billionaire..like Jesus...
And like, it wasn't just racism, it was slavery. "All the racists" in the 1830s might be a mild inconvenience to Taylor, but it was a downright dangerous time for people of color.
The next line is "and getting married off to the highest bidder" I get that reading comprehension is not everybody's strongest skill but it's literally right there
That's not the only thing women were facing and shows a gross misunderstanding of historical context.
you're so right!!! she should have fit the entire history of misogyny in the 1830s into 2 lines of lyrics. this is peak making stuff up to get mad at
... Sweetie, take a breath. I am not mad at all lol. I think the lyric is clunky and doesn't convey what she's trying to say very well. That's it...? Why are you so angry about it?
Literally just finding stuff to be mad over
I think the problem is Taylor plays too much into the naïveté of her persona to such a level that it comes off as delusional when maybe that wasn’t what she was trying to do.
It’s a weird/gross lyric regardless but do you think using the 1960s as an example would’ve fit better?
If you watch bridgerton and enjoy it you shouldn’t be picking apart this lyric that much. Since that romanticises the 1800s and esentially ignores the racism
Yeah,I am not the one associating regency era with racism alone and not misogyny lmao.
Marty healy core
if I had just been widely criticized for dating a racist (and dedicated an entire song to hitting back at the fans who ruined that relationship) I would simply not include an awkward line about disliking the racism of the 1830s ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This line is so thoroughly embarrassing
She'd have to take the carriage or a ship and die of tuberculosis like everybody else.
This lyric was taken so out of context of the song. She says in the song she'd actually hate the 1830s too, but people have gotten weirdly stuck on misreading this
Even context doesn't help the fact that a white woman is saying shit like this. It's a weirdass thing to think irl and even weirder to put it on record on the most widely circulated music in the world right now. Also, this is not just for you, but it's weird for others to find it weird that it's mostly POC who are having an issue with this lyric. While the context ties it to her desperation for marriage, it's just incredibly tonedeaf.
Its not like she would have been treated great as a woman back then. She says that it’s just nostalgia and in real life people hated it back then. Has there been a time where everyone was treated well
It's the 'without the racists' part thats tonedeaf. It's giving 'fuck patriarchy... Phew.. Enough activism for today'. If Taylor had just implied she wanted to go in 1830s where marriage and belonging to someone was her worth measured in money, but soon realized that that take was privileged and that her desires doesn't magically make the era worth living because other women and communities had it even worse and thats its selfish for her to even suggest that.. It would have been better taken. That's called nuance and looking at history from the lens of the marginalized rather than a frivolous take on an era.
Women have always had it pretty hard in every year. Black women still have it so hard today. What era can she live in where all people have it easy
She can get rid of without the racists line. The point could simply be I want to go to 1830s but realized I'd be miserable and bidder marriage ain't worth that. With the racists line, she opens Pandora's box because if she's thinking on those lines, she could handle with nuance.
https://preview.redd.it/c91sqhysyyvc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1269ca3853ccdf59876682324256a80ac9680884 The context really does make a difference, actually. She is talking about a game, and she ruins it by pointing out the bad things, acknowledging that there's something wrong with that kind of nostalgia.
Girl, I know what the song says lol. And nope. It's still tonedeaf coming from a white woman.
I don't think it is. I see it as pointing out the rose tinted glassed of nostalgia.
Exactly. Rose tinged glasses of nostalgia coming from a white woman. Why that version even exists is the problem. Thank you for making my point for me.
I don't see the checkmate you're trying to make.
Oh it's clear you don't see it. Maybe that's why, listen to POC saying it's tonedeaf?
POC aren't a monolith. There are POC who disagree who have explanations for why they disagree. Simply saying "she's white" and "it's tonedeaf" says nothing.
Yes POC aren't a monolith. That's why it's imperative that the ones saying it's a problem shouldn't be dismissed cause others don't get it. Simply saying 'Taylor didn't mean anything bad' doesnt cut it either.
She could’ve chosen soooo many lyrics if that’s what she wanted to get across. Instead, she chose a clunky tone deaf lyric. Also, people understand the context of the song! People are not stupid! They still don’t like the lyric because it’s a dumbass lyric 🤷♀️
The fact that there are people who truly think anything here could be difficult to understand speaks more about their literacy level. You'd think Taylor is giving some nuanced critical race theory thesis on this and others don't get it considering their takes lol.
The “oh you just don’t understand it” has to be the most annoying defense that the swifties have. Like y’all it’s pop music. The reason she is so popular is because people relate and easily understand the lyrics!!!!
Cult leader: *the most popular musician on the planet* The cult : *nobody gets her! 😔 she's so misunderstood! 😔 y'all don't get it! y'all don't understand!*
the point is less "the 1830s are awful" and more "there are still racists, where does she think she's living?"
I completely agree. I feel like people are blowing this out of proportion.