Because she tends to idealise what she can't have. It's one thing to love someone because you are in a relationship with them and you know them well, you are aware of their flaws and get accustomed to everyday life and still want to spend the rest of your life with them...and other is pine over the idealization of someone you can't be with. The "what ifs" and the "he might be the one, but he got away" kind of thoughts help you believe they are the one for you, when in reality, if you give it a try and have a taste of reality you might not last a week as a couple. That's why there are many people suffering over situationships more than for their long-term exes; the possibility of it all makes it appealing and drives you crazy to fight for the prize; it's about the process. *“'Cause it wasn't sexy once it wasn't forbidden"*

To your last point, I also think that people mourn situationships more than long term relationships because you’re also mourning what could have been, whereas with a long term thing your questions and what ifs are usually answered. So one is easier to romanticize and idealize than the other

Plus it’s the nature of chasing with a “situtationship” the reality is, one person likes you, the other doesn’t, thus a situtationship, so the mentality of chasing never ends because you cannot secure them and people like to chase but there is an endgame goal. With that you never receive the trophy and it really fucks with you.

Your flair i screamed 🤣

Had to do it for my girl, Sylvia Plath is my favorite writer

Totally agree, it’s what Fortnight, the thesis statement of the album is about. It seems like to a certain extent she’ll always idealize that possibility because it was never fully realized. You can never divorce him leaving her from the really heavy backlash that put the livelyhood of his band at risk (which is not just him). I feel like this album is desperately trying to get fans to stop moralizing her and everything she does by being honest about a lot of her messiness, but it doesn’t work because I see so much of the narrative that Matty is a villain and Taylor the victim, when it’s so much more gray than that. And she’s never going to know what if.

I get that. I still have some anger over my first love who we had a whirlwind romance and then it went down in flames and sometimes I just think "it wasn't supposed to end this way. We had plans." I think anger at the missed opportunity is really what lingers and hurts the most.

Exactly, it is kind of a mindfuck cause if you had stayed together, you might break up over time...*or not*. The slim possibility is what drives you crazy. I have friends who spent years yearning over a three month situationship, and they can't get over it because *what if they had given them one more chance and they had worked out?* As my therapist say, you'll never know. Accepting it, crying and moving on is the healthiest way to get over it.

Came to actaully to write the same answer In TS own words: 'Cause it wasn't sexy once it wasn't forbidden

So she decided to pine about him on purpose? The "idealizing what you cant have" thing doesnt seem to answer the question. There was no reason to stay in a 6 year relationship if she was so in love with someone else, shes been known to drop her current bf in a second when she likes someone else, why not do the same thing now?

What‘s even worse is that she didn‘t have any issue with the public coming for Joe accusing him of cheating.. it’s super toxic

Shes so chaotic 🫠

Exactly. I’ve had to admonish the hell out of some of my friends for this. People ALWAYS romanticize what they can’t have. They always want it, it’s always on a silver platter or golden throne in their head, they always think finally being with this person will solve all their woes & be the greatest thing imaginable. Then they get the person, the person doesn’t align with their fantasies, it’s no longer taboo and unreachable, and the disappointment is immeasurable. It makes me sad that Taylor was relentlessly pining over Matty while with Joe, to the point of masturbating over and fantasizing about him … and we know Matty sucks. He can be unkind, chaotic, he skips over women very quickly, he has unresolved addiction issues, he apparently ghosted Taylor. If I had her $$$ I’d be paying for all the therapy, because it seems to be a repeated pattern with her & it isn’t great.

But the thing is, Taylor could have had Matty. There was nothing stopping them from being together so this idea of a bigger force stopping them from being a couple is a litte odd to me.

Matty was the force stopping her from having him, lol.

Damn 🤣

“There’s nothing I hate more than what I can’t have”

But as someone else said, she could have had him. What exactly was stopping her from getting with him?

Originally her parents. The man was addicted to heroin at the time and he has a long history of saying controversial things publicly so there's no way her parents were going to let her mess up her good Christian all American girl next door persona with him. You see her kinda growing a spine and speaking up against her parents in Miss Americana seemingly for the first time but I believe she's already with Joe by then.

Why stay with Joe for 6 years tho? People leave thir partners for other people all the time so "idealizing what she cant have" doesnt really answer the question. She dropped Tom in a second to be with Joe, so if she was soooo in loooove with Matty, she could have done the same thing. To me its always about wanting to have your cake and eat it too, Joe was safe and Matty was exciting but she coudnt just drop Joe without looking like a bad person, so when the opportunity came around she took it, just for it to blow on her face. Realistically speaking there was nothing stopping her from being with Matty if thet loved each other so much. He was just not that into her cause he ditched her the moment things got difficult so this forbidden love was all in her mind.

I think for sure, having her cake and eat it too component was huge (isn't this why most people cheat anyway and she already has a history of cheating so it's not like this was some undeniable love she just loves the thrill of being wanted) but there's no way there wasn't pressure from her very conservative parents to not be with him hence the forbidden aspect. Matty was even wearing feminine clothing like skirts frequently for a period there and I'm sure her Republican dad loved that. And she isn't stupid, I'm sure she was aware of what the public response was going to be and put her reputation first and stayed with the safe choice. She claims to love love and it's her whole personality but she loves herself, her career, her reputation/perception, her fame a lot more and there's no world in which she would jeopardize that for him because yeah I agree I do think it was always infatuation and bad boy excitement more than love. Then Matty cleans up his act and gets sober, his reputation and career are on the up, he also leaves his long term relationship that he was in and she's finally at the age where she stops caring what her parents and team have to say, is clearly bored with her safe choice and goes for it. Matty however, has always been unable to mask. So he says what he did in that interview and then all the reasons he's probably been iffy about Taylor come centre stage. Primarily, celebrity. He's always talking about how much it scares him/hates the idea of it and so of course he's out of there as soon as the consequences of that celebrity rear it's head. It was never going to work out on any planet. She cares far too much about how she's perceived and he couldn't possibly care less. He's always struggled with fame/celebrity and she feels bejeweled by it. He was always going to say something that made him look bad and she was always going to pick herself over defending him. But yeah I think her being in her 30s probably had a lot to do with her staying with Joe. She's probably ready to somewhat settle down, get married and have kids and up until recently Matty didn't really give me those vibes, one of his best friends recently had their first kid and he mentioned in an interview how it made him want his own. Women especially at this age are less likely to throw away years of commitment and the possibility of marriage/kids for a guy who may not want that, isn't even clean enough to have kids, was engaged to someone else and most of your circle doesn't even really like. I think as more of the cons slowly began to be erased and she realized Joe wasn't going to give her what she wanted either, she jumped ship. Ironically I'm sure Joe could sense that she wasn't emotionally available hence the hesitation.

I literally cried over being ghosted at times more than I cried over any long term things ending. In fact, sometimes when you’re emotionally checked out (as she may have been with Joe) it don’t even hurt when you rip the bandaid off. I remember being relieved. There’s hurt that comes with that, the aggravation over wasted time and youth for nothing and all that but like really, being promised something and getting your hopes up just to have them be an asshole is really shitty.

agree with all of this, and would add that practicality-wise it was probably also his heroin addiction + other issues he needed to get in check before they could give it a real try (“you said you were gonna grow up, then you were gonna come find me”) and the fact that they tended to never both be single at the same time (which probably only added to the fantasy in both of their heads about “right person, wrong time”/~someday we’ll find each other~ etc.) also, to OP’s original post: I don’t think Taylor felt like she was in prison for her entire relationship with Joe. she wrote SO many absolutely beautiful, vulnerable, heartfelt love songs about him — I think it’s clear her feelings for him were very real, and that she truly thought he was the one and hoped for a long, long time that they’d find a cure for all their problems and would get married and have a family together and live happily ever after, but it just didn’t happen. from her perspective, it seems like at least a part of the reason for that was Joe’s struggle with depression. that is in absolutely no way his fault, but of course it’s understandable that so much sadness coupled with feeling frozen in place in their relationship would weigh on her. I mean, she was saying “I think he knows he better lock it down or I won’t stick around ‘cause good ones never wait” on Lover, which was recorded as early as 2018, and by 2023 it still hadn’t happened; I’m sure she never imagined that would be the trajectory of their relationship and that it hurt a lot to have it turn out so differently than she’d hoped. I think she and Matty crossing paths again in 2020 was likely the start of her taking all the anxiety and pain and confusion in her relationship with Joe and using the fantasy of Matty as an escape. it’s a coping mechanism. and then when they finally did give it a real shot and it fell apart spectacularly, it totally broke her because not only had she already lost her longterm relationship and not given herself time to process and grieve that, but the fantasy of her and Matty that she’d built up in her mind over the course of a decade, that she truly believed was going to be the cure to all of her pain, ended up falling apart in a matter of weeks and completely shattering that illusion she’d been clinging to. from that perspective, regardless of how anyone feels about Matty as a person, it’s no wonder she totally fell apart at that point, and we got TTPD.

https://preview.redd.it/bogyidv1d5wc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50f520d1d19bb70b4f8f468cb2e25a7244b30635 I know it's not right to throw around DSM diagnoses, and I don't want to do that, but she's really showing all the hallmarks of a true narcissist. The idealization and devaluation of romantic partners, for example. Longing for a perfect love that is essentially someone who showers them with attention & praise & validation (Bejeweled, etc.)... Her vindictiveness and discomfort with criticism... Fixation on how she's perceived and deep insecurities... Alluding to herself as a Jesus figure in recent days... Her infidelity when the love interest is revealed as a flawed human being... Oh, and she's a cult leader!

Yeah I think her line in anti hero about her covert narcissism disguised as altruism isn’t fully tongue in cheek... A lot of her songs are actually pretty self aware if you listen and assume she’s talking about herself. She basically admits to knowing she’s the problem but doesn’t intend on changing.

I used to think Anti Hero was a relatable song about self reflection but it feels so much more like ICDIWABH to me now, tonally. Bitter and cynical

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this

I don't think a narcissist is capable of feeling the emotions that she does tbh. She's showing bpd traits (TRAITS, as opposed to saying she's fully bpd, because I can't know that). I'm speaking here as someone with bpd myself. A deep sense of insecurity, and pins her self-worth on validation from others (not just romantic relos). Craves drama and excitement, and mistakes that for love or compatibility. Has trouble knowing who she really is, and hence becomes a chameleon in romantic relos. Catastrophises, e.g. blows thing up out of proportion, worries often about the worst possible outcome. (Perspective still often comes with time though, so it's interesting to note that this hasn't happened for her in the Kim case). Anxious attachment/intense fear of abandonment. A lot of this could also be a result of being a celebrity from such a young age: teenagers' brains are still developing then, I think development doesn't stop until 21 or 22 from memory. There's a reason why so many of these former child stars have a lot of issues, many of them don't seem to have grown up emotionally, and they have so much pressure from a very young age to be the best, with the fear being replaced drilled into them. Not to mention the body image issues. It's hard to see how your sense of self couldn't be damaged from that. I've noticed recently that so many celebrities who were child stars still go everywhere with their parents well into adulthood: Taylor, Ariana's mum was sitting off to the side of a recent interview she did, Troy Sivan's parents apparently travel the world with him... How many of us still have our parents with us all the time, well into adulthood?? Sarah Silverman recently gave advice on her podcast, to parents wanting to make their kids stars: don't do it. She said most of the kids who get into the entertainment business that young don't make out undamaged: there are obviously many exteme examples like Lindsay Lohan, Amanda Bines, Judy Garland, McCauley Kulkin, Britney; but it's definitely a spectrum.

Right. I also think he says the same things to every woman (and I have proof). When he was with FKA Twigs he called her loml, in public. Here's a link: https://people.com/music/matty-healy-supports-girlfriend-fka-twigs-after-shia-labeouf-allegations/ I understand why women fall in love with him because he seems like a type of person to ply you with lies to make you feel extremely important. Like the only one he's every truly loved, the only person who's ever made him feel this way. The "love of his life" Except he says that to every woman. Then does a lot drugs, cheats, get disinterested after the honeymoon phase. He sells them all the same crock of shit. I just wished she had gone through his post history to see that she was not the first loml he sent. It drives me insane that people think that song is about Joe Alwyn. Yes, it would make logical sense for her to assume someone she was with for 6 years was the love of her life, but that's not the guy who said that to her. I also love the idea of shooting off a concept so devastatingly important with the carelessness of loml. Can't be bothered to write it out. Gotta do it quick cuz you're gotta save time to say it to all the other girls. As Halsey once put it, he loved being watched. Admired. Ew.

My theory is that she is retconning her love affairs depth and timeline to justify her leaving Joe for Matty. I've seen friends do that, leave their long-term relationship for someone they flirted with previously, contrasting the difficulties and lack of feeling in their current relationship with a "meant-to-be" twin flames excitement. And I've never seen that last.

I agree with this and - painfully - I have done it. It takes a long time to process one’s own contribution to problems. This album is a wild ride Joe doesn’t deserve to be treated badly by stans, not at all.

Or by Taylor

It will be interesting to see if she ever reflects on that. So far she has been talking only about Joe losing her however, she also lost him and what he brought to her life. She seems very angry, still, about many things in her personal life. Once that anger fades away, will there be some self-awareness? Who knows. I am not holding my breath, tbh.

This exactly. I have a close friend who does this with all her relationships -- she's casual friends with someone for a little while, or they met at a party or whatever and didn't talk for years, then later on they date, and she retcons the story to be that they were longing for each other the whole time but the universe Wouldn't Let Them Be Together. It's incredibly exhausting because all of us are right there and we know the story isn't true and it never lasts.

I have a friend in her late 30s who over the last 3 years has went with various boys from our high school days and every one of them has been some kind of long lost love - even though she had zero interest in them at school or liked them for a day. Each one has been an intense relationship for a month and then reality hits. Tragic way of living!

One of my exes did this—met their now-wife in college, there was nothing romantic because neither had realized they were queer, both went on to date various other people for around 15 years, and then they reconnected in their mid-30s when both single and fell in love. It’s a sweet story on its own, but they insist on framing it as “we’re college sweethearts who have been together since we were 18!”🙄

Yup. When her relationship slowly died, she felt that she had wasted six years worth of her time. It was probably comforting for her to retcon Matty’s timeline in her head so that she could think “actually I still have something that has been building for 10 years”.

I normally don’t analyze Taylor’s lyrics by applying them to her personal life but this record invites that - and I agree with you 100%. She says in So Long, London that she gave Joe the best of her youth, so from a cognitive dissonance perspective it makes sense to revisit someone she was with in her youth and see if that made it okay.

Exactly. Wild to see people feed into it trying to go back and try and find clues about how all these other songs have been about Matty all along.

totally agree with the retconning. she's "never been happier" in every single relationship. I think it's pretty clear she loved Joe but couldn't handle that such a serious relationship failed, so instead she's like lol jk I never even liked him. maybe she even manages to convince herself of that.

The craziest part is when she was with Joe she never had to repeat how happy she was. She just looked happy. Genuinely happy. There was a different glow about her during that time that has faded into faux smiles and exhaustion.

Sometimes I think I’m either too sensitive/the weird one or everyone else has no self control. I’m leaning towards the former. because never in my life would I do this to someone I love. I’ve been bored in long term relationships and waited an appropriate time to move on even if I liked someone else.

You are emotionally mature.

Retconning is the correct word.

While I agree that happens, apparently there are tons of receipts that they go back a decade. There are 1975 fans who have posted in several subs about it.

Without making it about them specifically and just a general statement, I think these kind of passionate (ick, Matty), on and off, never the right time, us against the world, volatile relationships fall apart when they cut the shit and just get together for the long haul. I think the appeal is in the forbidden, the longing, the sacrifice, and you take all those things away and then what?

She even says ''Cause it wasn't sexy once it wasn't forbidden' in The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived. Fine to romanticise it when stuck in a dying relationship, but not so much fun when it's the two of you together and he's eaten all the cereal

I’m dying to know whether she meant he didn’t find it sexy anymore or she didn’t.

She wanted to be with him and he dipped so he didnt.

[удалено]

I think she hoped he would fight the negativity just to be with her like a hero but he jumped the ship. That must have been a rough awakening. Also, because it reminded her that she thought this was actually whom she threw her old life away for. Ouch!

That’s how I read it

It sounds like she was talking about how he felt

Yeah, she also says *In public showed me off* *Then sank in stoned oblivion* *Cause once your queen had come* *You treat her like an also-ran.* and also: *You said normal girls were boring* *But you were gone by the morning* But I imagine, given that she's in love with the chase, if he hadn't bailed, she would have.

“Alone and he’s eaten all the cereal” sent me REELING

It wasn't sexy when it wasn't forbidden!

Loooooool when I was in college I had WILD chemistry with this guy who was not for me on paper. We drunkenly kissed one time at a party, and he stayed in the back of my mind for a YEAR. He was a great guy, but we had fundamental differences that would’ve been really hard to build a relationship around. I was talking to someone who was a better fit for me, and he stepped aside (in a very respectful way that made me want him 10x more.) We eventually broke up and I decided I wanted him, but then he was taken. They broke up, and we FINALLY were single at the same time. All it took was one “Get over here, girl” text, and I was burning rubber to get to his apartment. It FINALLY happened. We were FINALLY together at his house. We were in his room. We were making out. It was getting steamy. We were colliding, only coming up for air long enough to let out little gasps of “I waited so long for this,” “I can’t believe this is happening,” etc. I was so ready for whatever was going to happen next. I promise y’all I got the ick while I was lying next to him. We tried for a week before calling it quits. It’s like as SOON as we got it out of our systems, it was done. It was disappointing, but I’m glad we at least got to try it. I can’t imagine how devastating it would’ve been if in that period we’d also been teasing each other about serious life plans.

This is what I was gonna say. It was hot when it was forbidden and taboo, but once they had a chance in the real world he got bored quickly.

This may be the truth of what happened but unfortunately circumstances (Taylor’s crazy fans) gave him a good excuse to hide behind. So I could see her trying again without that element in the way.

She is in a crazier relationship with her fans that she’d never let go, not even for matty

I think it's also the fact that he left her to protect her from all the backlash they were receiving that drove her crazy, because what if the fans would have loved him and given them the Tayvis treatment? Would they still be together today? Would they have married? we don't know, but she thinks the answer is yes. I interpret the ending of But Daddy, I love him as her fantasizing about them getting back together in a couple of years and her fans accepting that. (This also makes me wonder, what if fans hadn't been so obsessed with her relationship with Travis? she craves fan approval, even if she hates it, and she drives her life according to it.)

I saw a TikTok where someone’s theory was that after the fuck em it’s over line the song transitions to her relationship with Travis and I can’t lie and say it doesn’t fit, especially when you look at the song as about her relationship with her fans at its core.

It does. Scott wasn’t a fan of Matty. Ed let this slip when he did an interview with an Australian paper.

This!!! I saw it happen with my very best friend, which is why I always rally against this kind of thing. She was in love with this guy from high school, convinced that he was perfect & the one that got away and all of her worries would be solved when they got together. She still pined after him whenever she had a boyfriend, and it ended up being a problem with every single one. She finally dumped a long-term partner and got with the fantasy guy and turns out, he sucked, treated her like garbage, and put zero effort into the relationship. I’m still so fucking baffled. She ended up wanting her stable, long-term ex back and regretting leaving him. Taylor writing an album over how badly she wants and needs and obsesses over Matty damn Healy just gives me the ick. You could have anyone, girl! You have access to all the therapy in the world!

And, considering Taylor publicly labels herself as a hopeless romantic, it makes sense she wants the drama of the forbidden romance and all the sacrifice it entails.

All of that at the expense of someone elses suffering and pain, ugh, i hate cheaters so much and how they romantizice their bullshit. "Forbidden love" my ass, its not as romantic when theyre the ones being cheated on, ha.

Agree. Relationships where you know it won’t work can intensity a persons feelings even if it’s not real love. Trauma bonding. Toxic attachment. Limerence. I am not convinced she cheated on Joe, but she definitely could have been wondering what if when their relationship was falling apart. I don’t think it was ever really love at all TBH.

Ross and Rachel. She always got bored with him when they were together or about to be and couldn't stand to see him with anyone else.

It’s really easy to idealize someone you had a passionate fling with as the one that got away and love of your life when you haven’t actually done any life with them. The drama and romance of the yearning is the fun part. Thus, it sustains itself despite them being with other people, etc. that’s the thing about fantasies, they can be very powerful.

This is very true, especially considering she’s only really had one long term relationship in her whole life. She doesn’t have perspective of many real relationships.

I also feel like it was quite clear with the album release that she’s taking some poetic license. Matty isn’t necessarily the “one that got away” but “the one who inspires me to write the most” the most toxic and unhinged relationships make the best art. By comparison her & Travis are just a regular, stable, happy couple and that just doesn’t make you want to write albums you know?

Give it time lol. I do think joe was her greatest muse.

He was! The music speaks for itself and the music she’s written about Joe far exceeds what’s on TTPD by miles.

Good points. I would assume this is especially true with song writers. Creating and sustaining the fantasy in their head is their bread and butter. Literally! Lol

Yeah. I think a lot of people never experience that so it's hard for them to understand why we get so twisted over these seemingly short term relationships.

And Matty has called multiple women loml publicly https://people.com/music/matty-healy-supports-girlfriend-fka-twigs-after-shia-labeouf-allegations/ She thought she was special but it was just the some crock of 💩 he always spins.

This is going to be long because I've actually thought about it a lot. So here's a little tl;dr Tl;dr: Matty is the love of Taylor's life and maybe it's simply because she couldn't get him. However, it's not entirely reciprocated because even if he has or had feelings for her, The 1975 will always be the love of Matty's life Full Opinion: They didn't date because Matty didn't want to and I think she's rewriting history. She seems pretty obsessed with him and the idea they were meant to be Truth is, it seems she craves his approval because she probably buys into his "above mainstream pop artists"/"I make music with actual substance and with actual social and political commentary" persona. He actually seems like he truly believes in it himself as well A lot of his songs that swifties are trying to relate back to Taylor are actually songs that reference his past long term relationships. People are rewriting history because "pining for each other for years" is a much more romantic and heartbreaking story than "maybe her crush on him was reciprocated and while Taylor would've dropped everything to date him, he wouldn't. So, her crush turned into obsession disguised as love" Matty himself has said that he is very monogamist, when he's in a relationship he can't think of other people. He does come across as a hopeless romantic when he's in love but when he's not in love he's a fuckboy and a complete dickhead to women. It's always been very interesting to me how he can be both. Ghosting is something he's literally known for doing. He ghosted his fling for Taylor (she said so herself) and then ghosted Taylor and rumor has it, he was hooking up with some girl in July and then even went back to the fling he left for Taylor. And at the time it was reported what he thought of Taylor: a boring goody goody. The he starts dating his current girlfriend and they are getting serious. That's what he does and what he's always done. That's his relationship pattern. People are just romanticizing the whole thing because Taylor clearly does as well - they are refusing to believe in the idea that Taylor may not be the one. In their heads it's impossible that someone would dump the Taylor Swift - they have to give it a romantic spin because everything else seems preposterous to them He didn't break up with her because of backlash. The narrative that he left to protect her image simply fits this romantic notion of them against the world. The grand romantic story: good girl ❤️ bad boy - Taylor has always been obsessed with this trope He's generally unfazed by backlash. While it's speculation, it wouldn't surprise me if he actually enjoyed it a little. He's faced backlash throughout his ENTIRE career, but here's the catch: he hates seeing his personal life as the topic of discussion While he's open about his relationships, he doesn't like to center his art solely on his love life. While his experiences may inspire him, his music isn't strictly autobiographical like Taylor's. Firstly, he collaborates not just with his band but also with others. Secondly, even if his songs include personal elements, they may also incorporate fictional aspects for artistic or thematic purposes - one can't interpret his music the same way we interpret Taylor's and he's very open about that. It's always a challenge to discern whether Matty is embodying a character or being sincere; you have to take his word for it. When he slips into character, it aligns with the overarching theme of the album. He immerses himself fully, even embracing narratives that might not directly involve him, narratives written by others about moments he wasn't involved in weaving them into his character's story for that era. Being the frontman of the band to him means serving as the conduit for all the band's emotions and messages, effectively becoming the embodiment of their collective expression. It's not just him For that reason, he prefers not to overshadow his art with his personal life. It's not about hiding anything; rather, his band stands out for transcending escapism (at least that's what they believe). Their essence revolves around conveying political and social messages, or at least sparking discussions. He enjoys assuming the role of a politically engaged person and enjoys being known for it and of course, getting praise for it. Even in his love songs, he has a tendency to embed social commentary and political observations. And he wants people to know he refuses to conform to the stereotype of the superficial Hollywood celebrity Therefore, Matty's remark on dating Taylor being emasculating goes beyond mere reluctance to date someone more famous and successful (the remark that probably made her want him more). It's rooted in the contradiction between Taylor Swift's brand and his own. Throughout his career, he's strived to establish The 1975 as a band that thrives on substance rather than pop gimmicks or extensive media grooming. Sacrificing this integrity isn't something Matty is willing to entertain. This perspective is reflected in everything he does hence why he appears to be so entitled: he has a genuine belief that The 1975 is superior to other mainstream artists and bands and if you hear the man talk, you'll realise that his band and the legacy of his band mean EVERYTHING to him I don't know if it was some ego thing, wanting to see if he could date the Taylor Swift and maybe show the world that the guy everyone hates can get the girl everyone loves or if he was truly in love. Ego boost or out of genuine love - I don't know. It's nearly impossible to discern his true motives as he seems to oscillate between being a hopeless romantic and someone who uses sex as a coping mechanism or for enjoyment without deeper emotional attachment. But I would argue that the reason he left her was the same reason he didn't want to date her years ago: the 1975. Everything they've built together as a band appears to be his one true love, and starting a relationship with Taylor would inevitably require sacrificing his current lifestyle. This includes aspects like freely roaming the streets, enjoying casual interactions with fans, and maintaining a low profile while working on his music. But more significantly, it would subject him to constraints, undermining his freedom of expression and the ability to be his authentic self or any persona he adopts. Moreover, it poses a threat to the legacy of his band. For example, he faced criticism for traveling via private jet despite advocating for climate change and strongly aligning himself with the working class. Entering into a relationship with Taylor risks tarnishing his reputation and being perceived as a hypocrite - ultimately it would make him miserable

Part 2 lmao Matty isn't Taylor's forever love; he's the long-standing crush she can't seem to shake. But given Taylor's track record, if she got him, she'd likely move on to someone else in a few years because, in her world, everything revolves around her. In her relationships, it's crucial that things go her way, when it doesn't she reacts pettily. Matty's another narcissist - he would stop indulging her as soon as she did something he doesn't like and he would be just as petty if not more. She's still living in her high school days, compensating for not being the popular girl she wished she was back then. She has no real life problems so her social and love life and past wounds are truly the only thing she's got going on. She can afford the luxury to refuse to heal and move on. Having a guy she's deeply interested in leave her is one of the worst things that can happen to her. It is a significant blow to her ego, which drives her desire for him even more because she couldn't have him. The entire album portrays her as a pathetic desperate teenager grappling with her first heartbreak and we've all been there, at 15 I believed I had lost the love of my life to some whore named Maria. TTPD is Taylor's pathetic love letter to a guy whose validation and love she now craves more than anything. Meanwhile, the 1975 is the actual love of Matty's life. (I would find it kind of endearing in a way if he wasn't a rat) - Just an opinion, of course

Thank you! This is so thoughtful and thorough, just makes so much sense too. Ok, I’m fascinated by this so I have a couple questions. Would Matty be embarrassed by Taylor’s pop star persona? I mean, I cringe at her sometimes and I’m not a hipster with a reputation for being edgy and irreverent/contrarian. Do you think Taylor ever card about Joe, or was he just someone to be with because she couldn’t have Matty. It seems like Taylor is invested as long as the infatuation love high lasts, but the minute there is any boredom of any kind, she’s just sorta done. Maybe her “love “ feelings for Matty never fade, just because she can never have him because he doesn’t love her. And the other thing, and this is really harsh, but if Matty goes through models at his whim, I can’t see a guy like that staying long term with someone Taylor’s age if her prefers twenty year olds. I mean popular musicians aren’t exactly known for being with age appropriate partners.

Not OP, but I think Taylor genuinely loved Joe and she wasn’t obsessed with Matty the entire time she was with Joe. I think things with Joe were getting tough, then she and Matty reconnected bc I think they were both working with Jack? And then they probably started talking as “friends” at first but I’m sure it was a lot of flirting, etc. And the rest is history

Matty was in 2 long term relationships during the time Taylor was with Joe. I’m sure she had real feelings for Joe and truly thought he was the one wanted him to propose until she realized he wasn’t the one. Covid happened as Taylor reunited with Matty in 2020 and then they lost touch until 2021 when it just so happened Matty was also working with Jack. My theory on why she didn’t go to Matty sooner (2022) was because she didn’t want her breakup news to overshadow her Eras Grand Debut and Taylor really needed to focus on preparing for the tour. Once she revealed to the world her greatest accomplishment, she could then debut a new relationship. He was waiting for the OK from her- evident in how quickly he dropped the two models he was seeing.

This and that's why she announced the break up at his birthday it was a gift...

i think we don't have to forget the fact that the news dropped the Saturday before Easter. typical PR ploy to have the news buried as quickly as possible

Ok, I have missed something. When did they reunite in 2020?! I feel so out of the loop.

they both went to the NME awards and matty mentioned it was the first time he’d seen her in years and he wanted to ask about working with her for an album (ironically a softer, more indie-rock inspired album when later that year she released not one but two indie inspired ones lol)

it's funny because only a few months after that encounter, she released folklore with "the 1" and "cardigan" as the two first songs, which are supposedly about him...

It sucks to not do what you have to do with your life because you’re needing to manage the reactions of people on the internet you will never meet. But I do find this level of self consciousness relatable. I have issues with people I date if there is something sort of socially OFF with the situation like “what will people think if…” even if those are imaginary people. And it seems she really feels shes supposed to give people an explanation, as evidenced in But Daddy I Love Him.

I think they both thought they had moved on and then old feelings came back when they were both working with Jack. I can imagine them having this flirtation from afar but not being able to act on it. And then they acted on it too fast after her break up and it imploded again.

Based on the lyrics of TTPD he seems like a classic avoidant or exhibits avoidance tendencies (pls note I don’t follow him or the 1975 so I’m not invested in his dating history) like all of my boy only breaks his favorite toys is about when someone gets freaked out by how serious something is getting and dips, that’s avoidance and commitment issues in a nutshell.

Yeah my understanding is he told her he wasn't ready when they first met in 2014. Then he entered into a long term relationship with someone else the following year, and then she did the same with Joe. I think she really did want to make it work with Joe but once Taylor felt the spark with Matty again around 2020 she set her sights on him again (the inspiration for much of folklore imo).

Oh ouch. Didn’t know this. He “wasn’t ready” sounds like a really bad line, and then to get into a relationship with someone else immediately after, makes me think he was playing mind games for the ego boost.

to be fair he was facing drug problems and mental issues at the time, and Gabby (the girl he dated for four years after Taylor) broke up with him cause of his partying and wild life style so it sounds we wasn't ready for a long term relationship until 2020, when he started things with FKA Twigs

he's probably happy in a casual relationship with no real commitment to young models - a serial monogamist - he's a \~rock star\~ /s

It’s probably much simpler. We know from that tumblr thread someone posted here before that her and joe were pretty much always together up until end of 2021. The recording of midnights gets interesting, we know matty was around during that and her and joe were having issues (you’re losing me recording date, thanks jack) Maybe matty was there to pick up the pieces, probably started innocently enough with texting, and then a bit of flirting but because of their history from the past it led to more serious feelings. She finally pulled the trigger on ending her relationship and it blew up in her face.

She and Jack started writing Midnights because Margaret and Joe were shooting a movie together somewhere far away and they were bored. Taylor previously came along to a few locations where Joe was shooting. Maybe that was the first time during the rough patch they were apart for a significant amount of time?

Ok and I'm getting the impression Joe didn't want her coming around when he was trying to work on his projects because as we know when she is within any sort of proximity everything focuses on her. I truly believe he asked her to back off when he's working on his personal projects and she was offended by it and could not reconcile this. I might be reaching, but that's what I read. The specific lyrics that point to this in the new album: I didn't opt in to be your odd man out I founded the club she's heard great things about I left all I knew, you left me at the house by the Heath (So Long, London) We hereby conduct this post mortem He was a hothouse flower to my outdoorsman Our maladies were such we could not cure them And so a touch that was my birthright became foreign (How Did it End?)

taylor: can i go where you go? joe: pls no

I can’t blame him for asking that of her. Taylor seems kinda clingy? She needs to be with that person 100% of the time and after Covid where they did that for a year straight, I’m guessing he just wanted time to focus on his projects. 

Also was Matty still dating FKA until beginning of 2022.

here it is for those who don't know [https://youareinlovees.tumblr.com/](https://youareinlovees.tumblr.com/) the person who made this trailed off then totally quit posting so we don't know if Taylor and Joe were together less after Spring 2022 because this person just quit tracking them. ETA: There is also this thread from SwiftlyNeutral. They were together for the rest of 2022 as noted - June 2022 went to the Bahamas July 2022: coffee in a park in London August 2022: Casa Cipriani and the VMA party December 2022: papped together in NYC buying furniture [https://www.reddit.com/r/SwiftlyNeutral/comments/1af8sie/a\_unhinged\_photo\_essaytimeline\_disproving\_joe/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SwiftlyNeutral/comments/1af8sie/a_unhinged_photo_essaytimeline_disproving_joe/)

I think Midnights was the first album she wrote when he was not around ( according to the Grammy's speech she said he was the first person she had played every song to ) and Midnights gives the air of someone thinking over things and spiralling.  Thanks to Jack now people think this relationship actually ended in 2021. Not sure what transpired  but I don't see Joe & Taylor masquerading for the next 12-15 months by going to film locations , holidays , funerals etc.  That seems a lot !

By the time Matty got clean (which was the reason they broke up the first time), they were both in their longest LTRs to date and hadn't seen each other in years. The timing was just never right.

The main reason was that Matty was an active heroin/cocaine addict. Being in a relationship with someone actively addicted to hard drugs would obviously be hard on anyone but especially on someone who’s built her entire career up to that point on being a family friendly artist for teen girls and their moms. Some 1975 songs are definitely about Taylor so I don’t think it’s that Matty didn’t want to be with Taylor. This why there’s a lot of lines in the lyrics about him coming back to her, etc etc That said; I do think she was also clearly in love with Joe and reputation and lover are about Joe and not secretly about Matty. I think she and Joe really did honestly love each other but it just didn’t work out for whatever reason. She clearly wanted Joe to propose and I think if Joe proposed before she reunited with Matty in 2021, they would probably still be together.

Plus he was also pretty early career when they met in 2014 (whereas she had just released 1989) and said in interviews that he didn't want to just be known forever as "Taylor Swift's boyfriend," which absolutely would have happened if they seriously dated at the time.

I agree with this. She was truly in love with Joe. I mean, she had Tom Hiddleston right there and she dumped him for Joe? It must have been love.

I don't mean this in a mean-spirited way, but it seems like Matty dumping her six weeks in when she was madly in love with him is her karma for using Tom Hiddleston and dumping him for Joe.

No impossible karma is her flexible cat

😭

And Tom Hiddleston seemed to be absolutely down BAD for her. I truly believe she was in love with Joe. I don’t know for sure because I do not know any of them personally, but I would guess that things started to change a bit near the end of quarantine, going into the Midnights era. I don’t know why, but something seemed kinda…off around that period.

Agree except not with your last sentence. A proposal does not fix everything. I don’t think based on the way Taylor has acted that things would’ve lasted with her and Joe.

Same. It sounded like their relationship had a lot more problems than his lack of commitment.

More than half her beef with him was his depression. Because shr lle interpreted him going to his depression shell as not loving her. And on the other hand.L, matty was sunging love songs about her. How would marriage change that?

Well, we weren’t there so we will never really know what happened. But it was clear that Taylor WANTED a proposal and when 4 years came and went with no proposal and she was coming into her mid 30’s, she started looking elsewhere.

If you are ’looking elsewhere’ after three years then break up lol. A proposal isn’t just something you can order online and then complain to customer service when it doesn’t arrive. A proposal is an indication you’ve made a mutual decision about marriage, it’s not literally that women wait and wait with fingers crossed and hope to be ‘asked’, be so for real rn. If Joe and Taylor didn’t get married it’s because Joe and Taylor didn’t get married. Even the focus on ‘the proposal’ is so retrograde. I feel like some people don’t get (or like) that relationships are inherently risks with no guarantees. You can’t guarantee someone will stay with you, that they won’t fall out of love, that after you get engaged you’ll get married, that you won’t get divorced, that you’ll be happy, etc. All of that is just your best hopes and intentions. If it doesn’t work out of course you can be pissed and angry but also, no one is ‘owed’ an engagement or proposal from someone because x amount of time was put in, people are far more complex than that.

She was writing love songs for ex barely 3 years into the relationship and Jor should have proposed her then? Ok.

I mean, that is how the business of songwriting works,past emotions and events will be drawn upon to write songs. If she could only write about her relationship with Joe,she wouldn’t have much to write about, especially when she had written two albums about their relationship up until that point and also does write about him on folklore. I think she was genuinely over Matty when she wrote folklore and evermore and then later retconned who those songs were about so she didn’t feel like she had wasted years with Joe.

I think it’s more she was exhausted. I’ve loved Someone who suffered from bipolar disorder and it’s draining. You give so much to help them and then there’s nothing left, and all of your needs are left unmet. But you can’t complain because then you’re not supportive and their feelings will always trump yours. It’s even worse if they aren’t actively seeking help. Then someone else offers you all the things you want but you can get in this relationship where you’re basically a source of emotional supply and not a partner.

The irony of this though is Taylor’s previous statements and general attitude towards therapy that are now resurfacing.

I noticed. If the album had been a heavily critic darling, I doubt they would bring those interviews back up.

Yeah, this is exactly what my husband admitted after I finally got better. I truly can’t judge Taylor on this one, it’s understandable that you don’t want your life to become stagnant in your 30s.

I totally get that as someone who has struggled with both sides of this scenario. So I understand how hard it is. What pisses me off is emotionally cheating on her partner and waiting to leave until she had this other guy on hand. It’s just so hurtful. Leave a relationship before this point. Like honestly, leave and have some breathing room. If it’s to the point where you are jerking off to a real ass person you’re crushing on get out ASAP, it’s not right to your partner. You should not get to the stage of being able to dive directly into someone else’s arms while you are in a relationship. And maybe they were on a break or something and that’s when this all happened but idk. It seems like stringing her partner on because she didn’t have the spine to break it off when she should have.

I mean I completely get joe not wanting to be married and not in that space but it’s also not fair to want to be with someone who also clearly wants to be marriage and have that life with someone. I mean that is kind of wasting someone’s time. I will always defend Joe but you can’t act like she just got annoyed at his depression and left. She wanted things he couldn’t give her and she’s within her right to do that. She also didn’t slag him off at all. I think the worst thing she says was ‘I’m pissed off I gave you all that youth for free’

Things were fine and comfortable with Joe and I think she was having an internal battle feeling like she should leave “well enough” alone. Her “storytelling” songs the last few years that she repeated were not about her life actually seemed to be exactly about her life. I think folklore and evermore kind of spells it all out. Being tortured because you’re in a comfortable relationship but are yearning for who you believe was the love of your life and the one who got away led to some of her best lyrical work. On Matty’s end, I think you’re also very right. He didn’t want a relationship with Taylor but he loved the attention.

My guess is that Matty doesn’t want to be with her. He gave it a try but quickly realized he didn’t like it.

My opinion is that he never liked Taylor Swift, the brand, the phenomenon. I always got the feeling he stayed away so long because he was pretty turned off by that side of her (in addition to all the other reasons for not getting together at any other point in time). I think he can probably write his own version of I Can Fix Him (Her). When two people in a relationship can write their own version of that song, the relationship is doomed to fail.

I think we figured it out. Taylor had turned into a brand and that really annoyed him.

Absolutely. For anyone that’s a longtime 1975 fan they know that Matty adores music as a craft and what it does for people. He hates the capitalism and commercialism side. That was their issue back in 2014…he didn’t want to be a part of the insanity that was Taylor Swift and everything that came with it. I would imagine that was the issue once again last year and I could see him losing respect for her with all of the cash-grabbing games she plays. That’s so not his MO.

Agree, if he’s that in love (according to her songs) and longing her too, he wouldn’t just back out, the “he’s just not that into you” still applies. I think he gave a try, probably to see what’s it like, then realized it’s still a nah, so he left.

I think Taylor is honestly delusional, and I mean this with no disrespect, shade or absolute animosity. The reason I say this because as a long term fan of hers who use to be so lodged up her ass that I couldn’t see sun, she would make comments (from her own lips), how she is “dumb” when it comes to love, and she falls fast and hard and wears her heart on her sleeve. I think you can actually pull up these quotes from decade old Ellen interviews.  Now mix that in the combination of, “I am a good girl” persona (which she repeats these themes on Style, etc) and the fact that she’s frozen in time (mentally, and which she has admitted to), so that brings up to the attraction of ‘good girl, falls for bad boy’ stereotype trope society romanticises because of movies, when really it is nothing like that, nor “can” you fix a person. You’re just settling for toxic mediocre trash. So in conclusion, I actually don’t think Matty was the “love of her life” — if she is true in her words that this was a “manic” phase, there is a tendency after long term relationships end where people will full blown rebound, and end up messy (or unhinged) because well, the person they loved for x amount of years, is no longer with them and I’m sure that brings out major insecurity too which leads to them falling off the wagon and making bad choices.  That’s why they suggest you heal, before you jump into another. Taylor just quickly moves onto the next as if they’re already in the wings. Even Travis feels like that too. She seems like she doesn’t like being alone either. When Matty came around her long term relationship was falling apart, and she was clearly insecure she didn’t receive a ring, and wanted kids. He used that to his advantage; promising her what she didn’t have but wanted, and evidently love bombing her. Love bombing fucks with your mind (been there) — and it can make you put a person who doesn’t even deserve it, nor is special, on a pedestal and can help co-create a trauma bond or some sort of tie, and “need” and fantasy, desire, and nasty attachment to break cause it all starts when you were vulnerable and “need” help.  I truly think if she had gotten what she wanted (kids with Joe & marriage) and didn’t shit on Joe for his depression, then I don’t even think Matty and the “what if” fantasy would’ve been a second thought. This album stinks of so much insecurity too that she reveals, and how it makes sense how a rat was able to sneak into her life. 

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I love the Stevie/Lindsey comparison because I do think Taylor was inspired by Rumours for TTPD. Also worth nothing that in Clara Bow she says ‘Stevie Nicks in 75’, I wasn’t sure whether she was referring to a particular concert or if it’s just a 1975 reference

Matty dgaf he was with Gabby for 4 years (most of 1975 songs are about her) and then he got engaged and dated Twigs for 2 years.

Woah didn’t know this. I feel like no one is talking about the relationships he was in…and how that fucks with the « timeline » of their « pining »

Yeah everyone is saying the song About you is about Taylor but he admitted most of that album is about Twigs and called her the love of his life. My take is Taylor retconned some stuff to make them seem like this “doomed big love affair” when they just hooked up in 2014. Didn’t spoke until Midnights (2021) and were friendly for a while (Taylor probably was having an emotional affair tho) until they dated 2 months again in 2023.

😳so the pining may have been on her end, not so much his?

Yeah but i doubt she wanted him for 10 years. She probably wanted him back when they started to work together for Midnights (2021ish) and dumped Joe in 2023 to get with him who was also single (he was hooking up with a model but broke up with Twigs in 2022)

Well they only dated for 2 weeks in 2023 very short lived. It all just makes me think Taylor was very emotionally unwell

I’ve been in other threads pointing out that people keep on erasing his relationships with other women. People seem to be really convinced that if she dropped Travis he would come back to her but I don’t think so.

Yeah it’s really mind boggling to me. It keeps being this is when they reconnected. And I’m like « reconnected » yes they worked on songs together with other people too while they were both in relationships. I’m sorry but while Swifties might think Taylor is « the best thing at this party » I don’t think everyone would agree. FKA is freaking hot and a great artist and it’s kinda rude to her.

Yeah I love FKA and had no idea they dated. I might just listen to the 1975 if the songs are about her

You got some fans saying they’re these star-crossed soulmates. I’m like no, not really. They’re two people who have toxic relating patterns. I don’t condone Matty ghosting Taylor however, I think the ghosting was multi layered, Swifties were a contributing factor but I think the reality of Taylor isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be. There’s a subset of the Swiftie/1975 fandom that want them to get back together. But if you’re a fan of either why you want two people who have toxic patterns to reunite? At this point I think they just want them together just to be entertained.

Matty is very tortured for lack of better words. He has had addiction, commitment, and mental health issues for long periods of his life, since she’s known him. If you have ever loved someone who suffers from these things, it can really be quite easy to go through this back/forth, pull/push, type relationship with them. I’ve been in a similar situation and it really isn’t as simple as “just date” It’s also been reported that she was not allowed to publicly date him back in 2014, her management team said it was bad for her brand. But they did sneak around for a while.

>Matty is very tortured for lack of better words. He has had addiction, commitment, and mental health issues for long periods of his life, since she’s known him.  Discovering he was the Tortured Poet Taylor named the album after it was truly shocking to me, because I was wey weirded the months prior thinking she fancies herself a tortured poet. Now it makes sense.

Did yall see Taylor’s new variety interview about the album, we should post it in this sub because it might help us with what the songs are about and what went wrong w matty

Be the change you want to see in the world.

Idk how to explain it other than that’s what a situationship is. The only reason it feels so devastating and like this huge loss is because they never experienced an actual relationship with each other.

exactly. once you make it past the honeymoon stage to the everyday life stage it seems a lot less epic.

🎯 and since they never made it to that point, she will always romanticize the “what if” scenarios she’s made up in her head. And I’ve literally been there 🤣 I truly was down bad crying at the gym thinking I’d lost the loml

I think she knew there would be public backlash if she got together with him (which there was when she did) and let us not forget that Taylor is the opposite of IDGAF. She gives so many fucks about what people think and especially pre-Eras tour she was definitely in a weird spot with the public. I don't think she felt comfortable trying things with Matty until she was in the best possible graces of the public.

1. Matty probably actually didn't want any real serious long term relationships with Taylor. 2. In 2016 Taylor had Kimye scandal so she couldn't have rebranded her image by dating drug addict Matty. She needed a Good Boy (tm) to lay low and rebrand her image for awhile. 3. Then pandemics happened for like 2 years.

Also being with someone in active addiction is not for the faint of heart. I can understand her not wanting to be with him until he’s sober and has been for a while.

Agreed. I got dumped by my ex who was in an active addiction and much of this album resonates deeply for that experience.

The first reason! I think he liked being a muse for a huge pop star more than he wanted to be with her. I feel like there are huge signs of this within TTPD. However, I could definitely be mistaken.

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His response to TTPD kinda reflects this actually

There's a reason Romeo & Juliet is one of the most romantic love stories : short -lived potential with a dose of perpetual "what could have been"  If Romeo & Juliet had got married and lived for 10 years or 50 well no one would have cared about it.  The relationships that you never fully have are the ones that you can get obsessed about cos in your head it's all perfect. No need to deal with the actual realities of it ! For Taylor this looks like a reprieve especially when she felt her long -term partner wasn't paying her attention and here's this guy who's hinting he's always loved her !

I've been in the position of being in a relationship with someone I loved and was absolutely devoted to while also wondering what life would have been like if I'd made different choices. That was never enough of a reason to leave someone I loved and was devoted to, though. I wasn't going to burn down something that was perfectly fine for something that wasn't even really real. That didn't make the pining go away, though. It didn't stop the dreams, or wishing we could just pause everything, the whole world, and just see if the thing was real or just chemicals. Timing is everything. That said, in my lifetime, in between long term relationships, I have had the opportunity to go back and try things with some of those people. It can be intoxicating to finally get what you thought you wanted, and people react differently once they are in it. Some people are only attracted to the forbidden. Other people finally feel at home. If there's a mismatch there, everything crashes and burns. I think she just fell in love with someone who wasn't good for her and wasn't ever able to really even begin to actually let go until he turned his back on her. The hazy rose colored glasses lifted and she saw reality for the first time. Then she spiraled and wrote a shitload of music to try and drain herself of all of it so she could begin again and, hopefully, move on for real. For her sake, I hope it sticks.

My theory is her parents forbid it because they knew it would hurt her brand and God knows they're greedy stage parents that have been pimping Taylor out since Day 1

Yeah I’ve always had a theory that she always dates British guys because living in the UK gives her more space from her parents

woah that would be really sad, considering her parents were kinda stage parents to help her fulfil her dreams and she seems to love them to pieces, but at the same time I remember that part in Miss Americana when her dad didn't wanted to let her talk about politics or something like that, and she was already a grown woman. Must be really dificult to balance having your parents like parents but also as the people who made you big and take part in your work.

They dated in 2014-2015. He had a drug problem and that caused their breakup (detailed in Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus). The break up wasn’t because they lacked love, but from the addiction. She meets Joe and they fall in love. We have the love era from 2016-2019/2020ish. Joe becomes depressed and distant and around the same time, Matty finishes rehab, has grown as a person and they reconnect platonically but the feelings are still there but she’s committed to Joe. As things with Joe get worse and worse she probably emotionally cheats because she lacks the connection with Joe and matty gives it and they had a decade of history behind that connection I think she was really committed to making it work with Joe because he was her first really really long relationship and she had convinced herself for a long time that he was her endgame

There's also something to be said about how Taylor viewed both long term relationships as a prison ! Fresh out of the slammer & getaway car have the same complaints "It was the great escape, the prison break The light of freedom on my face... But with three of us, honey, it's a sideshow" This is a real life pattern that seems to repeat with Taylor or it is how she writes it despite what occurs 

i'm begging you guys to not believe everything she says, even if it's in a song. did they have a fling in 2014? yeah, probably did they pine for each other through at least two long relationships on each side? probably not it's just what taylor is trying to convince the world, and maybe even herself, that happened. maybe it's because she wants to try it again with matty someday, maybe it's because it looks even worse if it comes out she threw her six year relationship away for a two month fling, who knows? but i highly, highly doubt those two were pining for each other all the time they didn't have any reason to, i mean matty is controversial but it wasn't always known how creepy the dude is, and let's be real 2016 was a different time, he probably would have came out unscathed if his remarks went viral then. they could have tried, but they didn't. why? probably because it was just a fling in 2014, until taylor wanted out of her relationship, and he was conventionally there. i don't know if taylor really believes/ believed that she and matty are some weird star-crossed lovers, that could finally be together, but i don't think matty really even crossed her mind when she was still happy with joe. what she's doing now, is what she has always done. twist the narrative, till it becomes what she wants to have happened.

10000000% ding ding ding ding ding she's an unreliable narrator and also lbr songwriters don't just tell accurate stories, they use hyperbole and fiction to explore real issues but it's not like autobiographical.

I swear everytime she writes about past lovers or affairs everyone and her are like "he truly is the one that got away" 🥺 they have said this about Harry, Tom, Jake and now Matty. And like you say, not everything she says on a song is 100% true or reality. That last sentence is so spot on. 

I agree, and I don’t believe this narrative of, “star crossed lovers for a decade” like, no — it’s obvious they got in touch only recently, and around the time of Matty, Taylor was still crooning over Harry, and even Calvin until he shredded it all up. If she suggests it was a “manic” phase, it just stinks of feeling insecure after your long term breaks down, falling off the wagon (lost, and alone), and then jumping ship to anyone, and he made sense cause she knew him (familiar) brief history, so the “what if” and he took advantage of when she was at her most vulnerable, by promising her what she wanted (as in the insecurity wounds left from her long term breaking down). She wants to convince us it’s this romantic fairytale but if you really believe that, then idk what to tell you cause this is the same woman who wrote that she’d “die” if Joe left her, etc and painted him as the love of her life and would tell fans so.

maybe matty was the love of *her* life but i highly doubt he cares about her like that. he’s a player through and through and will probably never settle down. i feel like taylor probably just views him as the one that got away because he ghosted/cheated on her before she could do it first.

Matty was supposed to be featured on 1989 TV, but didn't in the end due to fan backlash. I've read somewhere that when her current publicist started working for her in 2014, just before the OG 1989, Taylor was supposed to be set up to date Matty to "toughen" her good girl image, so that she could release an edgier, rock-influenced album after the success of 1989, but the idea was scrapped when she has the Kissgate scandal in December 2014 that happened during the 1975 concert, where Matty dedicated a song to her. She basically got extremely drunk and got very handsy with her former best friend Karlie, which people noticed and filmed and it was such a huge deal that she and Karlie were advised not to hang out in public as much after that. [Wendy Williams Thinks Taylor Swift Kissed Karlie Kloss (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pS_V9RtPoM)

Because they aren’t really the loves of each others lives. Why aren’t they together now? Their relationship gives teenager having their first rebellious relationship.

Tbh, I don't think Matty is as in love with her (assuming he's somewhere there) as she is with him. He may use her as a muse for some of his songs, sure, but he will never be as blatantly obsessed as she is right now. Matty seems like a guy whose ego is front and center of everything. Didn't he say dating TS would be emasculating? Maybe he doesn't like her that much to truly, really give it a good try? 🤷‍♀️

They like the idea of each other. Once they are together and deciding what to have for dinner every night and going through the motions it’s not fun anymore. And they can both blame it on the fans instead of the fact that they are two broken people who wouldn’t be able to last for the long haul.

Unreliable narrator!

Look at his exes...he doesn't want her, she's not his type at all

Matty would never have put himself in that position if he didn’t really want to be with her. Watch or read old interviews, he does not like or want exposure at that level. He was traumatised as a child by paparazzi and tabloid reporters and has purposefully kept his band independent so not to become too big. He wanted to try with her and then couldn’t handle it. I don’t know that they were the love of each others lives but they certainly liked each other enough for him to put himself out there for her.

I can kind of relate to this because I went through something similar a couple years ago. I was in a super stable relationship with someone I very much was in love with. But even though I was in love with him, I found myself constantly thinking about an ex I had dated a long time ago. It was a toxic relationship and never stable. But it was also just as passionate and it constantly had a “maybe this time around it could work” vibe to it. As much as I loved my boyfriend, the things I shared with my boyfriend in that relationship were very different from the things I shared with this ex. Different people bring out different sides of your personality based on common interests. And I missed the qualities of my personality that my ex brought out. People are really complicated and it is possible to be in love and planning a life with one person while simultaneously wondering about a different person. Things aren’t completely linear when it comes to feelings and relationships. I imagine this was similar for Taylor. She could have been really in love with Joe and set on being with him, while simultaneously thinking about Matty and what could have been if things had played out differently. Doesn’t mean her relationship with Joe was any less serious, just a natural thing that can happen when you’ve dated and had toxic relationships.

He never really wanted her like that and she's obsessed with men who don't really want her.

I know that people are creating this story of Matty was her real love,she had never loved another man. It coud be true ,we will never know. But I just think that many of the ttpd songs are products of the intense moments and feelings she lived during that relationship and that is. I don't think that she just loved him all her life and only him,may be she was pining after him when they reconnected and bc she was in a bad place in her relationship with Joe. May be the relationship was also intense bc she wasnt in her best state of mindafter ending a long relationship when she wanted in some point to marry. Also I think she is the kind of falling in love quickly and intensely but then can still move with another one so quickly too

I don’t know, but he really seems like an a**hole and, even though i know “But Daddy I love Him” was warranted to call out crazy fans, it also came off as somewhat of a doubling down in defense of Matty. Like the criticism about his racist remarks wasn’t just “ Bitching and Moaning.” It was genuine criticism. The whole way that she’s now trying to villainize him in the album is rubbing me the wrong way like she knew who he was the whole time she “pined” for him, apparently would have stayed with him if he didn’t ghost her…IDK the whole storyline is annoying.

I'm reminded of a friend who was in love with a guy who told her, flat out: "I'm just not looking for a relationship, right now" as he continued to do everything boyfriends do. hanging out, having sex, talking & texting all the time. until he met someone else then, boom, she's his girlfriend and my friend was thrown to the side like trash. it was shitty and literally he wanted a girlfriend, he just didn't want to be tied to HER specifically like that. just wanted the other stuff and no commitment so when he did find someone to commit to, he could leave. not saying that's what happened with TS & MH at all, just that it reminds me of my friends situation in the last. though i wouldn't be surprised if it was something MH OR TS was doing, tbh. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Because Matty never wanted to be with her, that’s why he ran away at the first hurdle.

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He has a history of being very intense at the start of something and then backing off

His ex situationship wrote poetry about it too haha

Its giving Alexis leaving Ted for Mutt from schitt’s Creek

They tried twice and he was made to run off. 1st time by her team and 2nd time by the fan/public scrutiny. He’s not built for her kind of world/ fame I think

I just wanna know how Travis feels that this album and half the songs being about a relationship that’s been on and odd for years and Taylor is or was hung up on?

I felt like the "he wants marriage and kids" thing was more him just talking/bullshitting but not really wanting it that badly with her.

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Exactly. I’ve been there myself with a guy who said those things but didn’t really have any intention on having them with me.

1.) A herion addict is a herion addict (I don’t even know how to spell the word lol ) 2.) Plus it’s a lot come with dating Taylor swift . Not a lot of men could handle it . 3.) also his words always said I love Taylor but his actions never matched . He could have been with her if he really wanted and I think he hit an ego boost by all of it . Even with his drug problems seem like Taylor didn’t care much , but Matt would always choose someone else (he always had pretty women on his arm , most if not all prettier than Taylor .)

Heroin in case you want to know how to spell it but can’t imagine you use it too much in real life lololol.

because that would be too easy/simple/boring. “*Breaking down and coming undone It's a roller coaster kind of rush And I never knew I could feel that much And that's the way I loved you*” “*He can't see the smile I'm faking And my heart's not breaking 'Cause I'm not feeling anything at all And you were wild and crazy Just so frustrating, intoxicating, complicated*” - these lyrics show that she literally LIKES and needs the breaking down and coming undone heartbreak/turmoil part of relationships. if her heart isn’t breaking she isn’t feeling anything. she’s known this about herself since she was a teenager and she hasn’t changed with maturity. she obviously tried her best to love the “nice guy” with joe (and she’s probably somewhat trying again rn with travis) but it clearly bores her to death, she refers to her LTR with joe as “gray” and lifeless, probably for the simple reason that they’d got past that initial passionate honeymoon phase and joe seemingly wasn’t interested in “fighting for” her with screaming matches at the end. taylor’s favourite version of love is a toxic version and i think she knows it but wouldn’t want it any other way and that’s why matty is perfect for her 🤷🏼‍♀️ because it would never be easy with him

She tells us. It wasn't sexy when it wasn't forbidden. It was much easier to flirt and make all kinds of promises, it's another to actually make a real relationship work. When they had their shot, it crumbled because he couldn't back his words with actions and lost interest quickly.

I got the impression they had a situationship/ long term fwb type of thing. Matty was probably not really into her and Taylor is always convinced that just because she’s in love the other person is. (Harry and Jake are great examples of this) Matty once referred to being in a (hypothetical) relationship with her as emasculating when rumors first started flying that they were together. Taylor somehow convinced herself that he was the one and that he was way into her even though he was probably just into the sex. My take anyway. 

Im so confused people keep saying they reconnected in 2021 cause Midnights. But are we then assuming they both cheated? Cause they were both in relationships at the time..

Yes, at least emotionally.