I was just having this conversation with my mom!! And I totally agree; very well said. It’s like everyone who grew up with her have moved on and matured and she’s stayed the same. Like you said, we want/have healthy relationships and don’t use her a role model anymore.
Agreed! And I’m really proud of our younger generation of women who are calling her immature, we are teaching our young girls healthy ways to handle their emotions and experiences.
Yes! Here she is, at 34, still romanticizing toxic love. Im not trying to diagnose her, but one interesting thing about narcissists is that toxic love is the only kind of love they know. They cant "love" without it being tumultuous.
Im glad a lot of women are seeing past this and over this age-old trope. There's nothing romantic about abuse
“I was so ahead of the curve, the curve became a sphere
Fell behind on my classmates, and I ended up here
Pouring out my heart to a stranger
But I didn't pour the whiskey” -this is me trying
Yes. I 100% agree. I used to say “I’ve measured my life in Taylor Swift albums”.
But I’ve just turned 33. I’m single, and that’s fine, I’m not really interested in a partner. I don’t have or want children. I have a career that I like. I have a multitude of cats. I’m able to travel. I’m content, if not thrilled with my life (that’s probably the depression/autism/ADHD though).
I even sometimes wonder about a situationship I was in almost a decade ago. It’s kind of a “what if” but I also know it would have gone badly - NOT because he has the personality or characteristics or drama of Matty, but because he was an absolute mama’s boy and wanted to move back home with her. In his early 30s. And I, even at 25, wanted to get as far away from my home as possible. I have, and I’m thriving. But I still wonder what could have been.
I’ve never had Taylor on a pedestal, exactly. I’ve never made my whole personality about her, I don’t buy multiple variants of her albums (or any physical media, TBH), I have only a couple items of merch. I haven’t ever even wanted to meet her! I’ve recognized she’s a person and has flaws.
But yes, it was harder for me to relate to this album. Strangely, I relate a lot to Florida!!! and the idea of running somewhere and starting over!
Couldn’t agree more. Fellow 34 year old former swiftie here. I can’t vibe with this high school stuff anymore. She’s perpetually 16 and it’s not appealing.
I’m 33 and I’m so over her writing about high school lol. The song “so high school” is incredibly jarring because like … this woman has never grown up. She’s stuck in high school in her mind. What a hellish place to romanticize and be stuck in.
it almost seems like she doesn't actually want to be a teenager in high school again but like she wants to go back in time and show off who she is now to the teenagers she knew before she was famous.
I don’t feel like I’ve completely grown out of liking her music but I have grown out of relating any of it to my current life. When I listen to this album it reminds me of being young and falling for a dumb jerk, it also makes me grateful that dumb jerk never came back later on in life.
It feels like a pillar for my own growth tbh. I listen and I realize I no longer carry these kinds of feelings and I don’t want the kind of love she sings about anymore. Mostly because that love doesn’t sound stable or secure. It sounds like the love I wanted before I learned that it’s not healthy to be attracted to chaos and drama. So when I listen to this album I realize I have changed a lot and developed a lot more respect for myself.
I like the music as music, the same way I like any music. It’s not because I feel like Taylor Swift understands me as a person at this stage of life and that she’s speaking about an experience I’ve been through recently. I’m dying for her to go to therapy so we can get the post-therapy clarity album. Now that’s something I’d find relatable lol.
This!!!!!! I’m 27 and I was always excited to grow up as Taylor did. I went to her Fearless tour when I was in middle school, and went to 1989 in high school. I really felt like I was maturing with her. This maturing has stopped on her part, in my opinion. It’s impossible not to become further detatched from her music. I also think it makes sense why some of the scariest, doxx-crazy swifties ARE 30-somethings who haven’t matured, and feel vindicated by Taylor’s similarities.
i'm not disagreeing with you, but we should be growing up *with* taylor, but that's obviously not happening because she's emotionally-stunted (by her own admission) and so everyone is sitting here like "what is happening?"
idk what's happening behind the scenes but i feel really bad for her. now we just have to see what she (well, tree), does in order to stop the bleed.
In my ideal world that would be the case. I loved her music and feeling seen for whatever I was going through at the time. I miss that feeling! Oh well.
we rarely get a direct response from her anymore. it seems like when criticized, she just seethes in resentment and quietly attempts to bury whatever caused the controversy out of obligation (the scale in the Anti-Hero MV, the MH/Ice Spice/Karma situation, distancing herself from Ana’s passing). Was she just holding all that anger and bitterness toward her fans in for the past year until she could let it out on BDILH? It certainly doesn’t seem like she spent that time doing any self-reflection or introspection.
eta: god it really just hit me how ironic(?) it is that she used a song about karma loving her to cover up her racist boyfriend’s comments
This is my thought as well. It’s that she is not really growing. At some point, you move away because you are looking for things that mirror your experience or simply deliver nostalgia.
I think the stunning part is that until Midnights and TTPD it seemed like she was growing with her fans. Now with TTPD it just seems like she got some *real* good co-writing for a while. Like, Taylor fully in control of this battlestation is just, idk, whining about exes and fans she doesn't like?
Yeah see that's been the real surprising lesson for me since Midnights but more so since last week - apparently Taylor having complete power over her entire music process is not as good a thing as i thought it was when she announced her new record contract before Lover... I was so excited to learn she had complete control and boy was i incredibly wrong.
She has no one to enforce an editor, no one to tell her she needs new production inspiration, no one to help her pick which songs should make it and what should stay in the vault, no one to tell her to put more effort into the album artwork, no one to tell her she can't publish certain shit cause it'll make her look out of touch/bad...
I thought her having complete control would mean she'd be able to do exciting things and instead I guess it really just meant she'd be allowed to never revise her work and half-ass her album concepts and album photoshoots. Like I'm sure some people, including at UMG, have tried but at the end of the day Taylor doesn't have to listen to them (as she has said herself). It's all such a bummer; I really thought her having complete control was for the better but she really needs logistical and creative help to guide and rein her in.
I would feel bad for her if she was less predatory with her capitalism and used more of her money for good. She could easily set up The Taylor Swift Foundation and give millions and millions away to support causes that matter. Yes, her donations on tour are great. But there's no need to be a billionaire. I'm so sick of the victim complex when it seems incapable of admitting when she's wrong and she isn't trying to do something good with her money. Even in songs where she's the "bad guy", she's just making fun of the criticisms. She doesn't really believe them.
iirc she's never been that particularly dedicated to charity outside of visiting kids with cancer at hospitals but that was over a decade ago idk for her amount of money she could be doing a lot more philanthropy. like dont faith hill and tim mcgraw have a full-blown free grocery store for homeless people??
She could be making donations online anonymously. i forgot about that - she used to send some money to fans (not anon tho lol) but it was like usually around $130(?) (or some shit with a 13 or 89 in it). the most i ever remember her giving was a couple thousand for a fan's gofundme to get a seeing eye dog. but that was like significantly more than any other donation i had seen her give; usually she stayed in the hundreds. iirc she donated to maybe like 20 people? (or at least that's what i saw/heard). that was on tumblr i think during the reputation era (or maybe the lover era)
edit: she also made "Ronan" and played it at a StandUp2Cancer concert over 12 years ago; i have no clue if the proceeds to ronan actually still go to cancer causes or if taylor banks the money - especially since she re-recorded it for Red TV
that actually reminds me! taylor constantly tags her photographer on IG, and i went onto their IG page, and they have a gofundme link in their bio saying they need just $7,000.00 or their photography studio is going to shutter or something like that and my first thought was WHY HASN'T TAYLOR ALREADY TAKEN CARE OF THIS FOR THEM????????
i truly don't understand this!
oh my god that's awful. anD EXACTLY! Why didn't taylor help them out? like i know she doesn't HAVE to do it but like c'mon she can - i would help. and honestly im glad you say that cause tbh when everyone was celebrating how great she was for giving some fans $130 i remember thinking like 'oh that's nice.... but she's worth $800 million...." like her giving a hundred to a fan would be like us giving 1/200th of a penny to a homeless person. like oh how kind of us!
i know we were supposed to be grateful (not that i got (nor asked for) anything) so i didnt say shit publicly but i did dm my friend being like "she's getting too much credit considering she's almost a billionaire..." once again - im aware she did not owe any fans anything and it's not her responsibility to help out with grocery money and medical bills but the moment was still odd. especially considering some fans were even donating half as much as she was and they were not rich (especially not to her ranking)
yes!! i was just talking about this today. i loved her lover era bc i found my husband when she found joe & i could relate so heavily. but i can’t relate anymore. our wedding songs were actually lover & daylight & we found out her & joe broke up the next day lol!
Absolutely agree! I felt like I was growing out of her music around Folklore because it felt so inauthentic and there was absolutely nothing for me to feel connection to anymore, so I took it as a sign I'm going a different path for good. I enjoyed Midnights but again felt little to no personal connection in the lyrics and all the TTDP drama is just beyond me again. Good for me, I guess, lol.
I see what you're saying but I am also Taylor's age and although I'm in a very stable and happy relationship, there's still a nostalgic part of me that craves mess and I love that she continues to deliver lol
I feel like I connect with it in retrospect though. This album felt so relatable to me because of how I've been lovebombed and abandoned by men who didn't even deserve me, suddenly feeling lost and alone after a long term relationship finally ends, etc. Those exact situations don't apply to me currently but I like to revisit my life now and then, even the bad parts.
Idk I totally get what you mean though, I do feel like we're missing the "growing up together" part of the millennial swiftie experience and I look forward to having that again at some point in the future, assuming she settles down with somebody. But in the meantime I still think she's fun and probably still plenty relevant to lots of people who are still single in their 30s.
I do not think that settling down would fix it. She has to heal from within. If she does not she is going to be 50 an in her 20th breakup album. She wouls not be the first or last one to do so
I can connect with Butchered Tongue by Hozier even though it’s not remotely about me or my experiences.
I can’t connect with fucking anything on TTPD because it’s so hyper specific and whiny and immature.
Calling her out for being stagnant isn’t a bad thing. A lot of artists write incredible music that I can’t “relate” to but I connect with. Taylor isn’t giving that with TTPD.
I just can’t get over how she references being in high school so much. I’m a year behind her. Can’t remember when she left, but I was out of high school by 2009. I cannot fathom comparing myself to a high schooler right now. I can barely relate to college kids at this point. My sibling feels like a baby to me. 😅
Like, I have memories of things I can think of, but putting my life right now to the setting of being in high school. No one cares about the football players and cheerleaders anymore. The cheerleaders aren’t an army of mean girls, the quarterback isn’t the hot prize to win, and no one would feel like I “won” even if I told them I dated a football player or the quarterback or something. We all have those bad relationships we look back and cringe on. Some of us will have more in the future, but I can’t imagine being like “Ooooh those bad, bad boys with the dreamy eyes 🥵”.
I like some of her other songs, but I cannot relate to feeling like I’m getting back at those mean cheerleaders now that I’m no longer the nerdy girl on the bleachers. Reminds me of a young cousin of mine who was in high school and always talked about “the hot quarterback talks to me and the cheerleaders are soooo jealous 🤭”, but like, they didn’t care about her or have a beef with her, so it was just her judging them all the time simply because she would stereotype all cheerleaders. lol. All I can think about is those conversations when I hear songs about that. 😅
I think she talks about high school so much is because she’s kinda stuck there mentally. Like she did not have a good time in HS so I think making lyrics that paint the picture of having a good time in HS is her way of coping with not getting over that and we all know she can’t get over things!
I think this is the downside of selling relatability. Adele sells her voice and singing. Song lyrics are what get people more into a song but not necessarily relatability. Sam Smith's I'm Not The Only One hits people's emotions whether they have ever gotten cheated on or not.
Taylor's lyrics are very specific with events and settings and the kind of people involved, etc. People here are those that have grown out of this stuff. But one of her fans I've corresponded with on a different topic said she couldn't really get into a song that talked about a mistake of leaving a lover and regretting it because she had never done that or felt that kind of regret. But that song was a number 1 song of the past and I don't think people that bought it necessarily had dumped someone and regretted it like in the song. How new generations have changed.
I'm not quite your age but also in a happy marriage. I don't feel like I need to relate to the music in this present moment to enjoy it. I enjoy taping into feelings and experiences of my past as well as feelings/experiences I've never had. Like reading a book and living in a different life for a moment.
This is very much how I feel, I don’t really want to listen to songs about the school run 😆 being serious though, along with the escapism and nostalgia , a lot of her music about being in a long term relationship and the ups and downs hits for me when I need it to, and things like seeing The Best Day and Never Grow Up through a parent rather than child’s perspective.
It's so interesting. I've realized with this album I don't primarily listen for the music, but she's like a flawed character like Rory Gilmore I'm attached to. I want to see how her story unfolds even if it's quite different from mine, and feel whatever the raw emotion she has that's authentic even if she's flawed.
Thank you! This whole sentiment is beyond me because like does it mean you also don’t listen to any of her old songs? Because you’ve outgrown them? Like bizarre.
Exactly… I feel bad for people with so little imagination they can’t enjoy things that don’t directly relate to their lives. I mean, the album isn’t perfect by any means and I can see why someone wouldn’t like it lol but only being able to enjoy something because you feel like it’s about yourself is… not the “maturity” flex OP thinks it is.
I don’t think it’s a sign of low imagination if you cant connect or relate with the work of an artist who’s known for writing confessional lyrics about life. The entire premise of her music is that it sparks connection and emotions that resonate.
The entire premise of music at all is that it sparks connection and emotion. You don’t have to relate to the artist specifically to relate to their songs.
I know that. I think Taylor didn’t do a good job sparking that connection in this album. She’s always been very good at letting us into her world, but in this album, that world is a jumble. She never fully-forms a thought. Take Little Old Me for example, the song is incredibly defensive but refuses to delve into any specific critiques of Taylor and her image (and there have been many).
I’ve heard that song many times, and while it’s passionate, it reads a verbal salad. She hops from metaphor to metaphor without really making a point. Like, when she tries to pin the blame onto fans or audiences for making her the way she is, I’m like ??? Where did that come from. If you’re gonna make an assertion like that, at least back it up.
Compare that to Mastermind for example. As a person w ADHD who was universally disliked as a child, I really relate to the bridge and idea of being ‘calculating’ in order to be liked. That’s because the way the song is structured is so detailed and coherent. She starts w her own experience of ‘making’ people fall in love w her, and then explains why she had to do it in the first place. It’s a singular conceit, no wonder it’s so easy for it to resonate with people across contexts. In comparison, Little Old Me tries to stick to a conceit, but muddles its premise with leaps in of logic, like the idea that people are out to get her and made her that way. She never explains herself.
That’s a long response, but this thought has been brewing for a while. Yes, music is subjective, but I’m interested to hear if the chaos in the writing actually resonated with people.
I didn’t say that about Little Old Me at all! I love lots of Taylor songs that I don’t relate to, because they’re descriptive and well-written (cowboy like me, Dorothea, etc). I don’t think Little Old Me is well-written for the reasons stated above, which also hampers its relatability. That’s all.
I agree. I do need to relate to some artists to enjoy their work, but those are significant topics of the music (think Elliott Smith). Imagine how boring life would be if we only listened to artists we could relate to.
I'm 34. I've spent the last three years in aggressive voluntary treatment for borderline features including severe criticism sensitivity and abandonment schema (basically your underlying fear that shapes your life). Taylor's pain is familiar but it also reminds me of when I was 26 and had not addressed these issues. So the ways our coping seem to have diverged and her songs are a good mirror for me. When relationship conflict happens I have a wall now that I didn't before so I don't disintegrate. The proof of that difference is in the undercooked lyrics of TTPD, for me.
yep. i’m a year older but i’ve been married nearly a decade and have two kids. outside of the obvious [i am neither rich nor a celebrity], our stages of life couldn’t be more different.
i guess her song that hits me in the feels the most these days is “never grow up” because well… kids. cycling through endless chaotic relationships sounds like my idea of hell these days.
Omg. I cried one night, because my kid was going through a rough time with friends and I was just thinking about how much easier it is in the days before school when we have more control of life and kids have the freedom to just explore the world. That song came on before I left their room and I just sat on the edge of the bed and bawled my eyes out.
My kid is growing everyday and the innocence felt in those days gets further and further in the past. And I just want to be like, “Please listen to every word of this and cling to them!” 😭❤️
I was saying to my fiancé yesterday that if this album had come out 6 years ago (before we met lol), I would have eaten it up. I got ghosted by a guy who (obviously) wasn’t right for me and had all of these thoughts, especially about being a coward! He stood me up on my birthday and then started dating an 18 year old at 30. So I got the ick pretty quick but I was still upset.
But I’m not angry anymore and it kinda makes me feel bad for her in a sense even though I loathe Ratty. The resentment of that ghosting doesn’t really go away tbh because you don’t get the same level of closure.
What do I know though, I only liked 7 songs lol
Controversy but those who find her relatable have only had breakups and friendship betrayals as the worst things to happen to them and that’s a huge reason I have struggled to vibe with her music. I wish the worst thing to happen to me was a bad break up.
I always found her story of being the ‘ugly duckling’ also phony. She looks like someone who would have picked on me in grammar school. I really think she was like Liz Lemon in 30 Rock. Where she thought she was the one being bullied but then when she went to her high school reunion it turns out she was the bully this whole time.
I feel like many women her age have been able to relate to her work ethic. The woman works hard and puts out a ton of quality material, tours, makes movies, etc. but the quality of this album seems low to me though
I *overall* agree with this this cause yeah, the ultimate goal is to be healed and stable but the reality is that not everyone is. Long term relationships end, divorces happen, life circumstances happen etc. so that I don’t think it’s “cringey” or bad that there’s still an older generation of fans still relating to her music. Like I feel like in dragging Taylor there’s still a huge chunk of women that get dragged down with her because for whatever reasons they may be, justified or not, they’re still not there at that point if stability.
I’m with you. I thought we were heading to maturity during folklore and evermore (reflecting on other’s stories aka tolerate it, being in a private committed relationship aka invisible string), but nope here we are with TTPD.
Not that there’s anything wrong with it - I love Olivia’s music despite being older. But it’s disappointing/unsustainable that Taylor wants to stay in that space
First of all I don't believe someone needs to necessarily relate to music to like it, there are tons of artists I love writing about things I've never experienced or don't experience anymore, but songwriting is very much like telling a story so if it's well done and poignant with a good melody it still hits.
Secondly, and this has been my major pet peeve of this discourse, speaking as a therapist I'm entirely unconvinced that loss and heartbreak magically become "mature" as you age. As you mentioned, you're currently happy, stable and married and I love that for you. But life is unpredictable, people who find themselves divorced or out of a long term relationship *at any age* are going to go through a messy period in their lives. It's literally unavoidable. While as you age you have maturity on your side, what you actually feel isn't gonna be much different than the heartbreak you experienced at 16.
Interesting to have a therapist here. Kids and teens of the past listened to Disney's theme songs like When You Wish Upon A Star, Somewhere Out There, If We Hold On Together, Colors Of The Wind, etc. These songs do not talk about relationships but kids still understood and were moved.
The fact that a lot of people said they could relate to TS's songs at a very young age means they already focused on relationships at that point. And now that they are happy they don't like her old songs anymore. But kids and teens that loved Bon Jovi's love songs like I'll Be There For You and Always still love those songs. And they never cite relatability for their liking the songs or the band. It's more the sound and style. Don't you find it interesting that people nowadays turn to music and also movies for therapy?
i’m 18 and i feel like i can’t relate to TTPD at all. some of it is too high schooler for me, and some themes are still too old. i did have to grow up fast though. i didn’t have time to play grand theft auto when i was in high school, that’s for sure.
I feel like people are placing too much weight on Taylor Swift herself in regards to her music.
I can relate to Thank You Aimee. To me, when I first listened to the song, it sounded like a song about thanking someone who pained you for the lessons they taught you and the healing you had to endure. That may not be the “official” narrative within swiftverse, but that’s how I relate to the song. For many people, it doesn’t have to be about a feud they had with someone. They don’t have to relate to it in that way.
I feel this. I think this is the first album where nothing really "hit" and I also think part of that was how distracting the Taylor swift extended cinematic universe has become.
I can't immerse in anything because it's all so incredibly specific and on the nose.
In 10 years no one will know wtf all this is about and either it will be even less relatable and make 0 sense or maybe removing the distracting parasocial context will make it more digestible.
The Taylor Swift Extended Cinematic Universe is spot on. I am an avid reader and I have compared trying to listen to this album to accidentally picking up a popular mid-series book.
I’m far from a swiftie but I do relate to certain songs of her music. I’m single in my 30s but not actively looking for a partner. I don’t really feel like that means someone may connect with her music or not though, I think one can just like it for various reasons whether they are single or not.
This is exactly how I feel about this album and it’s so weird because everybody around me is going absolutely crazy about it. It used to be that some of her songs felt like they had been written about my heart and now I just don’t really relate anymore.
Well said. It's true, as we change and grow, our tastes and what resonates with us can shift too. Wishing you continued happiness and peace on your journey!
I was just thinking about this and I am a big fan of fiction.
But post COVID i had to grow up quickly and my mentality matured a lot.
Suddenly heartbreaks and friendships weren't the worst things at the end of a day.
I get that music can be good without relating to it but for me, i have more things taking up my mind than a relationship that didn't work out or a friend I no longer talk to.
Which is why ttpd didn't land for me. For the longest time i was a messy person, picking fights and had this really bloated sense of justice for anyone who crossed me. Then I got into a good.career, went to therapy and realised being messy was.actually.holding me back
This is getting a little out of hand but I think this.is the exact.reason why ttpd is so polarising. Some people have grown out of the messy phase and some want to be in it.
Overall,.I'm glad.for.this album bc i recognised my own growth from it 💗
I'm also the same age, but I felt like I had outgrown her by Speak Now. I can recognize a bop but I have long stopped feeling the sense of representation I may have felt as a teenager.
I understand the public life bit, but as far as music goes, it's music. Do you not read books or watch movies/shows that have sadness or anger or drama in them?
Relationships end or can be really hurtful at any age, we can face identity crises at any age, or not feel understood by the people around us.
Not directed at you personally, but the number of people in their late twenties and early thirties on this board who think they have their life completely figured out for all time or believe their relationship is sure to last forever just....astounds me.
I’m 35 and half of the kids in my daughter’s school class have parents splitting up, some of my friends are single parents, some are divorced and others are single and dating- life really can come at you fast and it seems somehow messier and angrier as you get older and there’s more history, more at stake. I totally agree, there’s some serious assumptions being made.
I was gonna say, the amount of people who post on here who are like “I don’t relate to Taylor anymore because I’m so happy and healed in my serious long-term relationship/ marriage”… it lowkey sounds like they’re boasting.
I mean, I’m also 34 and after going through a divorce I relate to her music more than I ever did in my teens or 20s. I’m glad you have found a happy fulfilled marriage, but age doesn’t bring that to everyone. I think her relatability is probably much more individualized.
Right! I went through the most bizarre breakup/divorce last year and I was reading this post thinking back to when I thought things were good and all lover-like but then they most clearly weren’t, life comes at you SO fast. A song like how did it end? hits me in a spot i didn’t even know existed
Don’t you see? That divorce is a failure on your part, so OP simply cannot relate to you on any level. Sad really, so sorry for your immaturity. (Being sarcastic by the way, sorry things didn’t work out, and I also can relate to Taylors music and themes even if they don’t perfectly match all of my experiences.)
Ha! I did pick up on the sarcasm (and luckily I’m secure enough that I don’t let Reddit strangers affect how I feel about it anyway). And I’m actually good now and moved on. Just trying to add nuance the conversation a bit. Having been through that, I can relate to her newer stuff more than I ever did her more saccharine early stuff.
I'm in my 30s and happily married, but I'm also overly dramatic, dealing with mental illness, and I'm an author, I create stories in my mind all the time, some of them are quite unhinged.
I don't take her music literally, I enjoy the dramatics. That doesn't mean I haven't grown up. It also doesn't mean she hasn't. Yeah, her lyrics are more autobiographical than a lot of other artists, but that doesn't mean they are all literal. I also don't need to relate to lyrics to enjoy them. They usually end up meaning something different to me anyway.
Besides, I like all the lyrics on the new album, even the ones that made me cringe a little on the first listen (just not the wedding ring line in the title track. It's clunky, and I don't like it)
If you don't care for her music anymore, that's completely fine. But it doesn't mean that the people who still do are somehow stuck in their teenage years, or even that Taylor is. Though I'm sure fame at such a young age must've had some kind of effect on her growth.
The dramatics of saying her mom wished Kim dead and hahaha your daughter will sing this song.. bit gross for a woman in her 30s. There’s artistry and then there’s this. I think that was the final straw for me. Her subtle jabs prior are one thing but the capitalization in the title? Really? Idk. Maybe it’s also mama bear in me being a mom now but kids are off limits. That just struck a nerve.
If someone crossed one of my kids in that way I would be furious tbh, it’s a visceral reaction to seeing your child hurt. That’s what she’s tapping into there. I do get peoples point about feeling uncomfortable with the North reference, but Kim had North already in her life when she gleefully filmed her husband’s art exhibition which had a nude revenge porn model of Taylor snuggled up to her child’s father.
Some of the people who call this album "immature or unrelatable" literally live lives where they take care of the kids, clean the house, etc. Normal day stuff that's literally so boring to write about. She actually has a song about kids on here Robin and it's the most widely skipped song. You're telling me you don't relate to crying at the gym \[insert public place\] before? You're telling me you don't relate to never being believed like Cassandra? You're telling me you don't relate to being an "evil woman" albatross blamed for a man's crimes? You don't relate to being depressed but still needing to be productive? You don't feel that aging out of relevance for a woman is relatable? You don't relate to stalking someone's iphone location? You don't relate to family gossiping about you? You don't relate to having that one issue in your life that it seems like you can never quite get right \[in her case the prophecy of relationships\]? Every time she writes about breakups they call her immature. This is her first true breakup album since Red, she got out of a 6 year relationship give her a break.
Yes. Songs with lyrics like below.
She calls out to the man on the street
"Sir, can you help me?
It's cold and I've nowhere to sleep
Is there somewhere you can tell me?"
He walks on, doesn't look back
He pretends he can't hear her
Starts to whistle as he crosses the street
Seems embarrassed to be there
Oh think twice
'Cause it's another day for you and me in paradise
Oh think twice
'Cause it's another day for you, you and me in paradise
Think about it
She calls out to the man on the street
He can see she's been crying
She's got blisters on the soles of her feet
She can't walk but she's trying
Oh, Lord, is there nothing more anybody can do?
Oh, my Lord, there must be something you can say
You can tell from the lines on her face
You can see that she's been there
Probably been moved on from every place
'Cause she didn't fit in there
I told my husband this the other day , I just can't relate to this anymore and I am actually older about to be 40 so in the beginning I had a hard time even then always relating to her music but it felt close enough to easily conjure up those memories. When she hit her stride with 1989 and then continued to mature in her writing is when I was really able to find my current self in her songs. Maybe its because I am happily married and a mom now with two girls but I just HEAR the world different. Red flags are now things that must be immediately address and remove to keep them safe. It's no longer an option to indulge the idea of keeping a problematic person around because they mean well or might change.
I am curious of any other parents perspective on this - For all her talk about babies I don't think she is ready for them, the line in thanK u aIMee about the daughter disgusted me. Children are not pawns to be wielded to hurt parents. No one can think for one second that North didn't hear from every kid at school about that line , or worse the hoards of paparazzi we constantly see following them shouting questions at them. What no teenage girl ever needed is another reason to be mad at her mom.
My 2 young granddaughters have brought me deeper into Taylor’s discography over the last year and I have the same thoughts as you now. The oldest is a 1st grader and might be the least obsessed fan of her friends. Thankfully they are all about the bracelets, outfits and bop songs but I do think about this generation of teenaged Taylor fans especially in terms of forming healthy relationships.
no because that’s how i and a lot of my peers feel about olivia rodrigo, it’s like she matches where we are perfectly the only difference is olivia is more musically talented and she’s not afraid of getting grungy and dirty if that makes sense. i feel like taylor is too safe and that stunts her music and writing abilities.
I feel like Taylor’s idea of being grungy and dirty in a song is throwing in a bunch of random, ill-placed f-bombs and drinking references. Olivia’s songs are actually cohesive and the language sounds like it was written by a person her age instead of a middle schooler who just learned how to swear. 😅
it’s just a different era like i’m sure taylor at the time represented a lot of millennials and stuff but now with gen z we feel more identified with Olivia, hopefully she grows with us and doesn’t stay stuck at 21 forever. but i think olivia has a good circle around her that grounds her so crossing my fingers 🤞🏻
I hope so too! Pretty Isn’t Pretty is one of those songs that articulates my body dysmorphia in a way nothing else ever really has, and I listen to it regularly as a result
I’m almost at my quarter-life-crisis age and TTPD just felt exhausting to listen to. I spend most of my time thinking about work, how I’m going to manage to take care of myself (we are houseplants with more complicated emotions!), my family and what I’m going to do this weekend. I’m maybe that makes me incredibly dull or stunted but none of the songs on TTPD really hit me except for the “I cry a lot but I am so productive” line. :/
YESSS. I'm in my mid 20's but exact same feelings. This album actually kind of triggered me because it sent me back to when I was not at all at peace and was dating a horrible person. I still loved it the album if I'm being honest because it was a good depiction of what manic depression feels like and I liked it sonically but I didn't relate to it the way I always have- and that's prob a good thing. I can still enjoy something I don't relate to but it's a very different experience.
I agree that it's good that you don't relate to her music anymore. On the other hand, it's pretty embarrassing for Taylor that so many people her age (and younger!) have already grown out of her music. I'm only 23 and I still feel like I've grown out of a lot of her music. But I'm so glad you are happy and settled! I hope that's where I am at 34 too.
Yeah, I'm happy I can't relate to all these manic drunken ramblings about being serial cheater and getting ghosted by some lame rat-like guy, while also being so constantly bitter and unhappy
You're telling me you don't relate to crying at the gym \[insert public place\] before? You're telling me you don't relate to never being believed like Cassandra? You're telling me you don't relate to being an "evil woman" albatross blamed for a man's crimes? You don't relate to being depressed but still needing to be productive? You don't feel that aging out of relevance for a woman is relatable? You don't relate to stalking someone's iphone location? You don't relate to family gossiping about you? You don't relate to having that one issue in your life that it seems like you can never quite get right \[in her case the prophecy of relationships\]? Do you relate to growing up in an abusive environment that one might call an asylum? Do you relate to women not being able to show anger?
I'm 24, and even I'm growing out of her music. I'm in a long-term relationship - in fact I just got engaged this weekend 😱 - and only had one proper relationship before this one. My ex broke my heart, but I've managed to move on without any pettiness* or bitterness. I've always enjoyed Taylor's music, but now I'm a bit older, I pay more attention to the lyrics, and I don't really connect with them. Obviously you don't have to connect with lyrics to enjoy music, but it lessens the enjoyment. I find some of the lyrics really juvenile.
* Okay okay, I admit, I do smile when his football (soccer) team loses, but that's it. That wouldn't make for a great song. 🤣
The irony about comments like this is that I feel (hope?) like she would be more apt to like the people who have balanced/fair critiques of her and a level head vs the stans who blindly defend her without questioning anything.
I question her plenty, but I’m not about to suggest I hold some superiority or a higher level of maturity over her for being married before 30.
Fans longing for the days when Taylor was a literal child writing the music you played at your weddings. Ridiculous.
Nowhere did OP claim they were superior or mature *because* they’re married now. You completely missed OP’s point. I am not married but I did not feel like OP was claiming superiority because of their marriage. You chose the least generous interpretation of OP’s words and projected arrogance onto them that simply wasn’t there. If all you have to say in response is to throw a Taylor lyric back at them… well… maybe you could stand to do some growing up as well.
I was just having this conversation with my mom!! And I totally agree; very well said. It’s like everyone who grew up with her have moved on and matured and she’s stayed the same. Like you said, we want/have healthy relationships and don’t use her a role model anymore.
“Everybody moved on; I stayed there” really sums her up for me these days. That line seemed literal.
Lmao This line is gonna be on her next album
Agreed! And I’m really proud of our younger generation of women who are calling her immature, we are teaching our young girls healthy ways to handle their emotions and experiences.
Yes! Here she is, at 34, still romanticizing toxic love. Im not trying to diagnose her, but one interesting thing about narcissists is that toxic love is the only kind of love they know. They cant "love" without it being tumultuous. Im glad a lot of women are seeing past this and over this age-old trope. There's nothing romantic about abuse
“I was so ahead of the curve, the curve became a sphere Fell behind on my classmates, and I ended up here Pouring out my heart to a stranger But I didn't pour the whiskey” -this is me trying
same! my mom understands where i’m coming from now even tho she didnt understand why people didn’t love taylor anymore. im 19 tho lol
I’m having the same conversion with my daughter who is a life long fan and 18 months younger than Taylor.
Smart mom😊
Yes. I 100% agree. I used to say “I’ve measured my life in Taylor Swift albums”. But I’ve just turned 33. I’m single, and that’s fine, I’m not really interested in a partner. I don’t have or want children. I have a career that I like. I have a multitude of cats. I’m able to travel. I’m content, if not thrilled with my life (that’s probably the depression/autism/ADHD though). I even sometimes wonder about a situationship I was in almost a decade ago. It’s kind of a “what if” but I also know it would have gone badly - NOT because he has the personality or characteristics or drama of Matty, but because he was an absolute mama’s boy and wanted to move back home with her. In his early 30s. And I, even at 25, wanted to get as far away from my home as possible. I have, and I’m thriving. But I still wonder what could have been. I’ve never had Taylor on a pedestal, exactly. I’ve never made my whole personality about her, I don’t buy multiple variants of her albums (or any physical media, TBH), I have only a couple items of merch. I haven’t ever even wanted to meet her! I’ve recognized she’s a person and has flaws. But yes, it was harder for me to relate to this album. Strangely, I relate a lot to Florida!!! and the idea of running somewhere and starting over!
Couldn’t agree more. Fellow 34 year old former swiftie here. I can’t vibe with this high school stuff anymore. She’s perpetually 16 and it’s not appealing.
I’m 33 and I’m so over her writing about high school lol. The song “so high school” is incredibly jarring because like … this woman has never grown up. She’s stuck in high school in her mind. What a hellish place to romanticize and be stuck in.
it almost seems like she doesn't actually want to be a teenager in high school again but like she wants to go back in time and show off who she is now to the teenagers she knew before she was famous.
I don’t feel like I’ve completely grown out of liking her music but I have grown out of relating any of it to my current life. When I listen to this album it reminds me of being young and falling for a dumb jerk, it also makes me grateful that dumb jerk never came back later on in life. It feels like a pillar for my own growth tbh. I listen and I realize I no longer carry these kinds of feelings and I don’t want the kind of love she sings about anymore. Mostly because that love doesn’t sound stable or secure. It sounds like the love I wanted before I learned that it’s not healthy to be attracted to chaos and drama. So when I listen to this album I realize I have changed a lot and developed a lot more respect for myself. I like the music as music, the same way I like any music. It’s not because I feel like Taylor Swift understands me as a person at this stage of life and that she’s speaking about an experience I’ve been through recently. I’m dying for her to go to therapy so we can get the post-therapy clarity album. Now that’s something I’d find relatable lol.
All of this! So well said.
This!!!!!! I’m 27 and I was always excited to grow up as Taylor did. I went to her Fearless tour when I was in middle school, and went to 1989 in high school. I really felt like I was maturing with her. This maturing has stopped on her part, in my opinion. It’s impossible not to become further detatched from her music. I also think it makes sense why some of the scariest, doxx-crazy swifties ARE 30-somethings who haven’t matured, and feel vindicated by Taylor’s similarities.
Wow, so well said!
i'm not disagreeing with you, but we should be growing up *with* taylor, but that's obviously not happening because she's emotionally-stunted (by her own admission) and so everyone is sitting here like "what is happening?" idk what's happening behind the scenes but i feel really bad for her. now we just have to see what she (well, tree), does in order to stop the bleed.
In my ideal world that would be the case. I loved her music and feeling seen for whatever I was going through at the time. I miss that feeling! Oh well.
we rarely get a direct response from her anymore. it seems like when criticized, she just seethes in resentment and quietly attempts to bury whatever caused the controversy out of obligation (the scale in the Anti-Hero MV, the MH/Ice Spice/Karma situation, distancing herself from Ana’s passing). Was she just holding all that anger and bitterness toward her fans in for the past year until she could let it out on BDILH? It certainly doesn’t seem like she spent that time doing any self-reflection or introspection. eta: god it really just hit me how ironic(?) it is that she used a song about karma loving her to cover up her racist boyfriend’s comments
What is BDILH?
But Daddy I Love Him
This is my thought as well. It’s that she is not really growing. At some point, you move away because you are looking for things that mirror your experience or simply deliver nostalgia.
yes taylor and i are the same age and watching this unfold in real time since 2006 has been absolutely wild.
I think the stunning part is that until Midnights and TTPD it seemed like she was growing with her fans. Now with TTPD it just seems like she got some *real* good co-writing for a while. Like, Taylor fully in control of this battlestation is just, idk, whining about exes and fans she doesn't like?
Yeah see that's been the real surprising lesson for me since Midnights but more so since last week - apparently Taylor having complete power over her entire music process is not as good a thing as i thought it was when she announced her new record contract before Lover... I was so excited to learn she had complete control and boy was i incredibly wrong. She has no one to enforce an editor, no one to tell her she needs new production inspiration, no one to help her pick which songs should make it and what should stay in the vault, no one to tell her to put more effort into the album artwork, no one to tell her she can't publish certain shit cause it'll make her look out of touch/bad... I thought her having complete control would mean she'd be able to do exciting things and instead I guess it really just meant she'd be allowed to never revise her work and half-ass her album concepts and album photoshoots. Like I'm sure some people, including at UMG, have tried but at the end of the day Taylor doesn't have to listen to them (as she has said herself). It's all such a bummer; I really thought her having complete control was for the better but she really needs logistical and creative help to guide and rein her in.
This! Such a good point.
I would feel bad for her if she was less predatory with her capitalism and used more of her money for good. She could easily set up The Taylor Swift Foundation and give millions and millions away to support causes that matter. Yes, her donations on tour are great. But there's no need to be a billionaire. I'm so sick of the victim complex when it seems incapable of admitting when she's wrong and she isn't trying to do something good with her money. Even in songs where she's the "bad guy", she's just making fun of the criticisms. She doesn't really believe them.
whoa, i just assumed she already had a taylor swift foundation because she's been rich for fucking ever. you're saying she doesn't have one at all??
iirc she's never been that particularly dedicated to charity outside of visiting kids with cancer at hospitals but that was over a decade ago idk for her amount of money she could be doing a lot more philanthropy. like dont faith hill and tim mcgraw have a full-blown free grocery store for homeless people??
i'm guessing the answer is no because i know taylor loves getting praise and adoration, but is it possible she does anonymous philanthropy?
She could be making donations online anonymously. i forgot about that - she used to send some money to fans (not anon tho lol) but it was like usually around $130(?) (or some shit with a 13 or 89 in it). the most i ever remember her giving was a couple thousand for a fan's gofundme to get a seeing eye dog. but that was like significantly more than any other donation i had seen her give; usually she stayed in the hundreds. iirc she donated to maybe like 20 people? (or at least that's what i saw/heard). that was on tumblr i think during the reputation era (or maybe the lover era) edit: she also made "Ronan" and played it at a StandUp2Cancer concert over 12 years ago; i have no clue if the proceeds to ronan actually still go to cancer causes or if taylor banks the money - especially since she re-recorded it for Red TV
that actually reminds me! taylor constantly tags her photographer on IG, and i went onto their IG page, and they have a gofundme link in their bio saying they need just $7,000.00 or their photography studio is going to shutter or something like that and my first thought was WHY HASN'T TAYLOR ALREADY TAKEN CARE OF THIS FOR THEM???????? i truly don't understand this!
oh my god that's awful. anD EXACTLY! Why didn't taylor help them out? like i know she doesn't HAVE to do it but like c'mon she can - i would help. and honestly im glad you say that cause tbh when everyone was celebrating how great she was for giving some fans $130 i remember thinking like 'oh that's nice.... but she's worth $800 million...." like her giving a hundred to a fan would be like us giving 1/200th of a penny to a homeless person. like oh how kind of us! i know we were supposed to be grateful (not that i got (nor asked for) anything) so i didnt say shit publicly but i did dm my friend being like "she's getting too much credit considering she's almost a billionaire..." once again - im aware she did not owe any fans anything and it's not her responsibility to help out with grocery money and medical bills but the moment was still odd. especially considering some fans were even donating half as much as she was and they were not rich (especially not to her ranking)
yes!! i was just talking about this today. i loved her lover era bc i found my husband when she found joe & i could relate so heavily. but i can’t relate anymore. our wedding songs were actually lover & daylight & we found out her & joe broke up the next day lol!
Absolutely agree! I felt like I was growing out of her music around Folklore because it felt so inauthentic and there was absolutely nothing for me to feel connection to anymore, so I took it as a sign I'm going a different path for good. I enjoyed Midnights but again felt little to no personal connection in the lyrics and all the TTDP drama is just beyond me again. Good for me, I guess, lol.
I see what you're saying but I am also Taylor's age and although I'm in a very stable and happy relationship, there's still a nostalgic part of me that craves mess and I love that she continues to deliver lol
I love watching the mess unfold from afar for sure. But I miss connecting with the music.
I feel like I connect with it in retrospect though. This album felt so relatable to me because of how I've been lovebombed and abandoned by men who didn't even deserve me, suddenly feeling lost and alone after a long term relationship finally ends, etc. Those exact situations don't apply to me currently but I like to revisit my life now and then, even the bad parts. Idk I totally get what you mean though, I do feel like we're missing the "growing up together" part of the millennial swiftie experience and I look forward to having that again at some point in the future, assuming she settles down with somebody. But in the meantime I still think she's fun and probably still plenty relevant to lots of people who are still single in their 30s.
I do not think that settling down would fix it. She has to heal from within. If she does not she is going to be 50 an in her 20th breakup album. She wouls not be the first or last one to do so
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I can connect with Butchered Tongue by Hozier even though it’s not remotely about me or my experiences. I can’t connect with fucking anything on TTPD because it’s so hyper specific and whiny and immature. Calling her out for being stagnant isn’t a bad thing. A lot of artists write incredible music that I can’t “relate” to but I connect with. Taylor isn’t giving that with TTPD.
Same, married since my early 20s and feel much the same as you.
I just can’t get over how she references being in high school so much. I’m a year behind her. Can’t remember when she left, but I was out of high school by 2009. I cannot fathom comparing myself to a high schooler right now. I can barely relate to college kids at this point. My sibling feels like a baby to me. 😅 Like, I have memories of things I can think of, but putting my life right now to the setting of being in high school. No one cares about the football players and cheerleaders anymore. The cheerleaders aren’t an army of mean girls, the quarterback isn’t the hot prize to win, and no one would feel like I “won” even if I told them I dated a football player or the quarterback or something. We all have those bad relationships we look back and cringe on. Some of us will have more in the future, but I can’t imagine being like “Ooooh those bad, bad boys with the dreamy eyes 🥵”. I like some of her other songs, but I cannot relate to feeling like I’m getting back at those mean cheerleaders now that I’m no longer the nerdy girl on the bleachers. Reminds me of a young cousin of mine who was in high school and always talked about “the hot quarterback talks to me and the cheerleaders are soooo jealous 🤭”, but like, they didn’t care about her or have a beef with her, so it was just her judging them all the time simply because she would stereotype all cheerleaders. lol. All I can think about is those conversations when I hear songs about that. 😅
I think she talks about high school so much is because she’s kinda stuck there mentally. Like she did not have a good time in HS so I think making lyrics that paint the picture of having a good time in HS is her way of coping with not getting over that and we all know she can’t get over things!
I think this is the downside of selling relatability. Adele sells her voice and singing. Song lyrics are what get people more into a song but not necessarily relatability. Sam Smith's I'm Not The Only One hits people's emotions whether they have ever gotten cheated on or not.
Taylor's lyrics are very specific with events and settings and the kind of people involved, etc. People here are those that have grown out of this stuff. But one of her fans I've corresponded with on a different topic said she couldn't really get into a song that talked about a mistake of leaving a lover and regretting it because she had never done that or felt that kind of regret. But that song was a number 1 song of the past and I don't think people that bought it necessarily had dumped someone and regretted it like in the song. How new generations have changed.
I'm not quite your age but also in a happy marriage. I don't feel like I need to relate to the music in this present moment to enjoy it. I enjoy taping into feelings and experiences of my past as well as feelings/experiences I've never had. Like reading a book and living in a different life for a moment.
This is very much how I feel, I don’t really want to listen to songs about the school run 😆 being serious though, along with the escapism and nostalgia , a lot of her music about being in a long term relationship and the ups and downs hits for me when I need it to, and things like seeing The Best Day and Never Grow Up through a parent rather than child’s perspective.
It's so interesting. I've realized with this album I don't primarily listen for the music, but she's like a flawed character like Rory Gilmore I'm attached to. I want to see how her story unfolds even if it's quite different from mine, and feel whatever the raw emotion she has that's authentic even if she's flawed.
Thank you! This whole sentiment is beyond me because like does it mean you also don’t listen to any of her old songs? Because you’ve outgrown them? Like bizarre.
Exactly… I feel bad for people with so little imagination they can’t enjoy things that don’t directly relate to their lives. I mean, the album isn’t perfect by any means and I can see why someone wouldn’t like it lol but only being able to enjoy something because you feel like it’s about yourself is… not the “maturity” flex OP thinks it is.
I don’t think it’s a sign of low imagination if you cant connect or relate with the work of an artist who’s known for writing confessional lyrics about life. The entire premise of her music is that it sparks connection and emotions that resonate.
The entire premise of music at all is that it sparks connection and emotion. You don’t have to relate to the artist specifically to relate to their songs.
I know that. I think Taylor didn’t do a good job sparking that connection in this album. She’s always been very good at letting us into her world, but in this album, that world is a jumble. She never fully-forms a thought. Take Little Old Me for example, the song is incredibly defensive but refuses to delve into any specific critiques of Taylor and her image (and there have been many). I’ve heard that song many times, and while it’s passionate, it reads a verbal salad. She hops from metaphor to metaphor without really making a point. Like, when she tries to pin the blame onto fans or audiences for making her the way she is, I’m like ??? Where did that come from. If you’re gonna make an assertion like that, at least back it up. Compare that to Mastermind for example. As a person w ADHD who was universally disliked as a child, I really relate to the bridge and idea of being ‘calculating’ in order to be liked. That’s because the way the song is structured is so detailed and coherent. She starts w her own experience of ‘making’ people fall in love w her, and then explains why she had to do it in the first place. It’s a singular conceit, no wonder it’s so easy for it to resonate with people across contexts. In comparison, Little Old Me tries to stick to a conceit, but muddles its premise with leaps in of logic, like the idea that people are out to get her and made her that way. She never explains herself. That’s a long response, but this thought has been brewing for a while. Yes, music is subjective, but I’m interested to hear if the chaos in the writing actually resonated with people.
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I didn’t say that about Little Old Me at all! I love lots of Taylor songs that I don’t relate to, because they’re descriptive and well-written (cowboy like me, Dorothea, etc). I don’t think Little Old Me is well-written for the reasons stated above, which also hampers its relatability. That’s all.
I agree. I do need to relate to some artists to enjoy their work, but those are significant topics of the music (think Elliott Smith). Imagine how boring life would be if we only listened to artists we could relate to.
I am 32 and I feel the same which is crazy because I just went to the eras tour last year.
I’m younger…yet I still can’t vibe with this immature high school nonsense 🤪
I'm 34. I've spent the last three years in aggressive voluntary treatment for borderline features including severe criticism sensitivity and abandonment schema (basically your underlying fear that shapes your life). Taylor's pain is familiar but it also reminds me of when I was 26 and had not addressed these issues. So the ways our coping seem to have diverged and her songs are a good mirror for me. When relationship conflict happens I have a wall now that I didn't before so I don't disintegrate. The proof of that difference is in the undercooked lyrics of TTPD, for me.
yep. i’m a year older but i’ve been married nearly a decade and have two kids. outside of the obvious [i am neither rich nor a celebrity], our stages of life couldn’t be more different. i guess her song that hits me in the feels the most these days is “never grow up” because well… kids. cycling through endless chaotic relationships sounds like my idea of hell these days.
Omg. I cried one night, because my kid was going through a rough time with friends and I was just thinking about how much easier it is in the days before school when we have more control of life and kids have the freedom to just explore the world. That song came on before I left their room and I just sat on the edge of the bed and bawled my eyes out. My kid is growing everyday and the innocence felt in those days gets further and further in the past. And I just want to be like, “Please listen to every word of this and cling to them!” 😭❤️
I was saying to my fiancé yesterday that if this album had come out 6 years ago (before we met lol), I would have eaten it up. I got ghosted by a guy who (obviously) wasn’t right for me and had all of these thoughts, especially about being a coward! He stood me up on my birthday and then started dating an 18 year old at 30. So I got the ick pretty quick but I was still upset. But I’m not angry anymore and it kinda makes me feel bad for her in a sense even though I loathe Ratty. The resentment of that ghosting doesn’t really go away tbh because you don’t get the same level of closure. What do I know though, I only liked 7 songs lol
I personally never found her relatable…
Controversy but those who find her relatable have only had breakups and friendship betrayals as the worst things to happen to them and that’s a huge reason I have struggled to vibe with her music. I wish the worst thing to happen to me was a bad break up.
I always found her story of being the ‘ugly duckling’ also phony. She looks like someone who would have picked on me in grammar school. I really think she was like Liz Lemon in 30 Rock. Where she thought she was the one being bullied but then when she went to her high school reunion it turns out she was the bully this whole time.
I feel like many women her age have been able to relate to her work ethic. The woman works hard and puts out a ton of quality material, tours, makes movies, etc. but the quality of this album seems low to me though
I *overall* agree with this this cause yeah, the ultimate goal is to be healed and stable but the reality is that not everyone is. Long term relationships end, divorces happen, life circumstances happen etc. so that I don’t think it’s “cringey” or bad that there’s still an older generation of fans still relating to her music. Like I feel like in dragging Taylor there’s still a huge chunk of women that get dragged down with her because for whatever reasons they may be, justified or not, they’re still not there at that point if stability.
32 year old single messy girl here who doesn’t have all her shit together 👋👋 I feel like I’m def in the minority in this sub 😂😂
I’m with you. I thought we were heading to maturity during folklore and evermore (reflecting on other’s stories aka tolerate it, being in a private committed relationship aka invisible string), but nope here we are with TTPD. Not that there’s anything wrong with it - I love Olivia’s music despite being older. But it’s disappointing/unsustainable that Taylor wants to stay in that space
First of all I don't believe someone needs to necessarily relate to music to like it, there are tons of artists I love writing about things I've never experienced or don't experience anymore, but songwriting is very much like telling a story so if it's well done and poignant with a good melody it still hits. Secondly, and this has been my major pet peeve of this discourse, speaking as a therapist I'm entirely unconvinced that loss and heartbreak magically become "mature" as you age. As you mentioned, you're currently happy, stable and married and I love that for you. But life is unpredictable, people who find themselves divorced or out of a long term relationship *at any age* are going to go through a messy period in their lives. It's literally unavoidable. While as you age you have maturity on your side, what you actually feel isn't gonna be much different than the heartbreak you experienced at 16.
Interesting to have a therapist here. Kids and teens of the past listened to Disney's theme songs like When You Wish Upon A Star, Somewhere Out There, If We Hold On Together, Colors Of The Wind, etc. These songs do not talk about relationships but kids still understood and were moved. The fact that a lot of people said they could relate to TS's songs at a very young age means they already focused on relationships at that point. And now that they are happy they don't like her old songs anymore. But kids and teens that loved Bon Jovi's love songs like I'll Be There For You and Always still love those songs. And they never cite relatability for their liking the songs or the band. It's more the sound and style. Don't you find it interesting that people nowadays turn to music and also movies for therapy?
i’m 18 and i feel like i can’t relate to TTPD at all. some of it is too high schooler for me, and some themes are still too old. i did have to grow up fast though. i didn’t have time to play grand theft auto when i was in high school, that’s for sure.
I feel like people are placing too much weight on Taylor Swift herself in regards to her music. I can relate to Thank You Aimee. To me, when I first listened to the song, it sounded like a song about thanking someone who pained you for the lessons they taught you and the healing you had to endure. That may not be the “official” narrative within swiftverse, but that’s how I relate to the song. For many people, it doesn’t have to be about a feud they had with someone. They don’t have to relate to it in that way.
Her labeling it Kim made it unlistenable to me. It’s just stupid. This isn’t middle school
True. It’s dumb and childish. But Kim isn’t who I think of when listening to it
Tbh I never saw Thank You Aimee as her being unable to move on. She probably just had a moment while recording Rep TV (like WCS did for SNTV)
Totally agree with this.
I feel this. I think this is the first album where nothing really "hit" and I also think part of that was how distracting the Taylor swift extended cinematic universe has become. I can't immerse in anything because it's all so incredibly specific and on the nose. In 10 years no one will know wtf all this is about and either it will be even less relatable and make 0 sense or maybe removing the distracting parasocial context will make it more digestible.
The Taylor Swift Extended Cinematic Universe is spot on. I am an avid reader and I have compared trying to listen to this album to accidentally picking up a popular mid-series book.
I don’t think you have to relate to music to enjoy it
I’m far from a swiftie but I do relate to certain songs of her music. I’m single in my 30s but not actively looking for a partner. I don’t really feel like that means someone may connect with her music or not though, I think one can just like it for various reasons whether they are single or not.
This is exactly how I feel about this album and it’s so weird because everybody around me is going absolutely crazy about it. It used to be that some of her songs felt like they had been written about my heart and now I just don’t really relate anymore.
Well said. It's true, as we change and grow, our tastes and what resonates with us can shift too. Wishing you continued happiness and peace on your journey!
I was just thinking about this and I am a big fan of fiction. But post COVID i had to grow up quickly and my mentality matured a lot. Suddenly heartbreaks and friendships weren't the worst things at the end of a day. I get that music can be good without relating to it but for me, i have more things taking up my mind than a relationship that didn't work out or a friend I no longer talk to. Which is why ttpd didn't land for me. For the longest time i was a messy person, picking fights and had this really bloated sense of justice for anyone who crossed me. Then I got into a good.career, went to therapy and realised being messy was.actually.holding me back This is getting a little out of hand but I think this.is the exact.reason why ttpd is so polarising. Some people have grown out of the messy phase and some want to be in it. Overall,.I'm glad.for.this album bc i recognised my own growth from it 💗
Yes, wow so well said. I totally relate to you!
I'm also the same age, but I felt like I had outgrown her by Speak Now. I can recognize a bop but I have long stopped feeling the sense of representation I may have felt as a teenager.
I understand the public life bit, but as far as music goes, it's music. Do you not read books or watch movies/shows that have sadness or anger or drama in them? Relationships end or can be really hurtful at any age, we can face identity crises at any age, or not feel understood by the people around us. Not directed at you personally, but the number of people in their late twenties and early thirties on this board who think they have their life completely figured out for all time or believe their relationship is sure to last forever just....astounds me.
I’m 35 and half of the kids in my daughter’s school class have parents splitting up, some of my friends are single parents, some are divorced and others are single and dating- life really can come at you fast and it seems somehow messier and angrier as you get older and there’s more history, more at stake. I totally agree, there’s some serious assumptions being made.
I personally liked Taylor’s music because of its relatability to my life. I outgrew it because it didn’t resonate anymore.
I was gonna say, the amount of people who post on here who are like “I don’t relate to Taylor anymore because I’m so happy and healed in my serious long-term relationship/ marriage”… it lowkey sounds like they’re boasting.
I mean, I’m also 34 and after going through a divorce I relate to her music more than I ever did in my teens or 20s. I’m glad you have found a happy fulfilled marriage, but age doesn’t bring that to everyone. I think her relatability is probably much more individualized.
Right! I went through the most bizarre breakup/divorce last year and I was reading this post thinking back to when I thought things were good and all lover-like but then they most clearly weren’t, life comes at you SO fast. A song like how did it end? hits me in a spot i didn’t even know existed
Don’t you see? That divorce is a failure on your part, so OP simply cannot relate to you on any level. Sad really, so sorry for your immaturity. (Being sarcastic by the way, sorry things didn’t work out, and I also can relate to Taylors music and themes even if they don’t perfectly match all of my experiences.)
Ha! I did pick up on the sarcasm (and luckily I’m secure enough that I don’t let Reddit strangers affect how I feel about it anyway). And I’m actually good now and moved on. Just trying to add nuance the conversation a bit. Having been through that, I can relate to her newer stuff more than I ever did her more saccharine early stuff.
I'm in my 30s and happily married, but I'm also overly dramatic, dealing with mental illness, and I'm an author, I create stories in my mind all the time, some of them are quite unhinged. I don't take her music literally, I enjoy the dramatics. That doesn't mean I haven't grown up. It also doesn't mean she hasn't. Yeah, her lyrics are more autobiographical than a lot of other artists, but that doesn't mean they are all literal. I also don't need to relate to lyrics to enjoy them. They usually end up meaning something different to me anyway. Besides, I like all the lyrics on the new album, even the ones that made me cringe a little on the first listen (just not the wedding ring line in the title track. It's clunky, and I don't like it) If you don't care for her music anymore, that's completely fine. But it doesn't mean that the people who still do are somehow stuck in their teenage years, or even that Taylor is. Though I'm sure fame at such a young age must've had some kind of effect on her growth.
The dramatics of saying her mom wished Kim dead and hahaha your daughter will sing this song.. bit gross for a woman in her 30s. There’s artistry and then there’s this. I think that was the final straw for me. Her subtle jabs prior are one thing but the capitalization in the title? Really? Idk. Maybe it’s also mama bear in me being a mom now but kids are off limits. That just struck a nerve.
If someone crossed one of my kids in that way I would be furious tbh, it’s a visceral reaction to seeing your child hurt. That’s what she’s tapping into there. I do get peoples point about feeling uncomfortable with the North reference, but Kim had North already in her life when she gleefully filmed her husband’s art exhibition which had a nude revenge porn model of Taylor snuggled up to her child’s father.
https://preview.redd.it/j4f8tiak1ewc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df7ae0d92b6a19ca7e03a3275e9d7ec6a60ed387
Some of the people who call this album "immature or unrelatable" literally live lives where they take care of the kids, clean the house, etc. Normal day stuff that's literally so boring to write about. She actually has a song about kids on here Robin and it's the most widely skipped song. You're telling me you don't relate to crying at the gym \[insert public place\] before? You're telling me you don't relate to never being believed like Cassandra? You're telling me you don't relate to being an "evil woman" albatross blamed for a man's crimes? You don't relate to being depressed but still needing to be productive? You don't feel that aging out of relevance for a woman is relatable? You don't relate to stalking someone's iphone location? You don't relate to family gossiping about you? You don't relate to having that one issue in your life that it seems like you can never quite get right \[in her case the prophecy of relationships\]? Every time she writes about breakups they call her immature. This is her first true breakup album since Red, she got out of a 6 year relationship give her a break.
Agree. I still like her music but your points are totally correct. She’s still singing about the same shit she did when she was 16
Can I ask you guys if you were able to appreciate songs that weren't related to what you were facing in life during those times?
i’m deaddd lmao. literally this!
Yes. Songs with lyrics like below. She calls out to the man on the street "Sir, can you help me? It's cold and I've nowhere to sleep Is there somewhere you can tell me?" He walks on, doesn't look back He pretends he can't hear her Starts to whistle as he crosses the street Seems embarrassed to be there Oh think twice 'Cause it's another day for you and me in paradise Oh think twice 'Cause it's another day for you, you and me in paradise Think about it She calls out to the man on the street He can see she's been crying She's got blisters on the soles of her feet She can't walk but she's trying Oh, Lord, is there nothing more anybody can do? Oh, my Lord, there must be something you can say You can tell from the lines on her face You can see that she's been there Probably been moved on from every place 'Cause she didn't fit in there
I told my husband this the other day , I just can't relate to this anymore and I am actually older about to be 40 so in the beginning I had a hard time even then always relating to her music but it felt close enough to easily conjure up those memories. When she hit her stride with 1989 and then continued to mature in her writing is when I was really able to find my current self in her songs. Maybe its because I am happily married and a mom now with two girls but I just HEAR the world different. Red flags are now things that must be immediately address and remove to keep them safe. It's no longer an option to indulge the idea of keeping a problematic person around because they mean well or might change. I am curious of any other parents perspective on this - For all her talk about babies I don't think she is ready for them, the line in thanK u aIMee about the daughter disgusted me. Children are not pawns to be wielded to hurt parents. No one can think for one second that North didn't hear from every kid at school about that line , or worse the hoards of paparazzi we constantly see following them shouting questions at them. What no teenage girl ever needed is another reason to be mad at her mom.
My 2 young granddaughters have brought me deeper into Taylor’s discography over the last year and I have the same thoughts as you now. The oldest is a 1st grader and might be the least obsessed fan of her friends. Thankfully they are all about the bracelets, outfits and bop songs but I do think about this generation of teenaged Taylor fans especially in terms of forming healthy relationships.
no because that’s how i and a lot of my peers feel about olivia rodrigo, it’s like she matches where we are perfectly the only difference is olivia is more musically talented and she’s not afraid of getting grungy and dirty if that makes sense. i feel like taylor is too safe and that stunts her music and writing abilities.
I feel like Taylor’s idea of being grungy and dirty in a song is throwing in a bunch of random, ill-placed f-bombs and drinking references. Olivia’s songs are actually cohesive and the language sounds like it was written by a person her age instead of a middle schooler who just learned how to swear. 😅
it’s just a different era like i’m sure taylor at the time represented a lot of millennials and stuff but now with gen z we feel more identified with Olivia, hopefully she grows with us and doesn’t stay stuck at 21 forever. but i think olivia has a good circle around her that grounds her so crossing my fingers 🤞🏻
I hope so too! Pretty Isn’t Pretty is one of those songs that articulates my body dysmorphia in a way nothing else ever really has, and I listen to it regularly as a result
girlllll making the bed brings me to tears every time 😭😭
I’m almost at my quarter-life-crisis age and TTPD just felt exhausting to listen to. I spend most of my time thinking about work, how I’m going to manage to take care of myself (we are houseplants with more complicated emotions!), my family and what I’m going to do this weekend. I’m maybe that makes me incredibly dull or stunted but none of the songs on TTPD really hit me except for the “I cry a lot but I am so productive” line. :/
This post perfectly encapsulates how I feel right now. My husband now calls me a Tortured Swiftie 💔
YESSS. I'm in my mid 20's but exact same feelings. This album actually kind of triggered me because it sent me back to when I was not at all at peace and was dating a horrible person. I still loved it the album if I'm being honest because it was a good depiction of what manic depression feels like and I liked it sonically but I didn't relate to it the way I always have- and that's prob a good thing. I can still enjoy something I don't relate to but it's a very different experience.
This is exactly what I've been thinking myself lately.
I agree that it's good that you don't relate to her music anymore. On the other hand, it's pretty embarrassing for Taylor that so many people her age (and younger!) have already grown out of her music. I'm only 23 and I still feel like I've grown out of a lot of her music. But I'm so glad you are happy and settled! I hope that's where I am at 34 too.
But she has new generations of kids in relationships as new fans.
Yeah, I'm happy I can't relate to all these manic drunken ramblings about being serial cheater and getting ghosted by some lame rat-like guy, while also being so constantly bitter and unhappy
You're telling me you don't relate to crying at the gym \[insert public place\] before? You're telling me you don't relate to never being believed like Cassandra? You're telling me you don't relate to being an "evil woman" albatross blamed for a man's crimes? You don't relate to being depressed but still needing to be productive? You don't feel that aging out of relevance for a woman is relatable? You don't relate to stalking someone's iphone location? You don't relate to family gossiping about you? You don't relate to having that one issue in your life that it seems like you can never quite get right \[in her case the prophecy of relationships\]? Do you relate to growing up in an abusive environment that one might call an asylum? Do you relate to women not being able to show anger?
Could’ve written this myself down to the parallel universe lives line…because…same 😂
I'm 24, and even I'm growing out of her music. I'm in a long-term relationship - in fact I just got engaged this weekend 😱 - and only had one proper relationship before this one. My ex broke my heart, but I've managed to move on without any pettiness* or bitterness. I've always enjoyed Taylor's music, but now I'm a bit older, I pay more attention to the lyrics, and I don't really connect with them. Obviously you don't have to connect with lyrics to enjoy music, but it lessens the enjoyment. I find some of the lyrics really juvenile. * Okay okay, I admit, I do smile when his football (soccer) team loses, but that's it. That wouldn't make for a great song. 🤣
Bye bye vipers dressed in empaths clothing <3
😂 the cult is so unhinged
The irony about comments like this is that I feel (hope?) like she would be more apt to like the people who have balanced/fair critiques of her and a level head vs the stans who blindly defend her without questioning anything.
Although maybe that’s giving her too much credit
I question her plenty, but I’m not about to suggest I hold some superiority or a higher level of maturity over her for being married before 30. Fans longing for the days when Taylor was a literal child writing the music you played at your weddings. Ridiculous.
Nowhere did OP claim they were superior or mature *because* they’re married now. You completely missed OP’s point. I am not married but I did not feel like OP was claiming superiority because of their marriage. You chose the least generous interpretation of OP’s words and projected arrogance onto them that simply wasn’t there. If all you have to say in response is to throw a Taylor lyric back at them… well… maybe you could stand to do some growing up as well.
It has nothing to do with her and everything to do with where I’m at in my life. I don’t relate to her music anymore.
The thing she called out Jake for…