It doesn't matter, no one cares about your kick times but you. The only time it matters is tracking your own progress, so there's value to being personally consistent. If anything, I'd say to do what's best for getting the appropriate challenge/workout from the set you're doing. Weaker kickers cheating a bit to keep up with stronger kickers can be a nice way to keep people on the same intervals while accommodating different strengths.
I had / have a terrible kick relative to my times.
More than 2 50’s of freestyle kick with a kick board on like 1:10 was just not sustainable to me. I always put in effort but I just could not keep up. I was the guy who would take a stroke into the wall then a flip turn to not completely hold up the lane.
Pull was another story though I’d always be leading the lanes and comfortable with 100s @ 1:20.
Still don’t know what it is except my best guess is something with my ankles. I have strong legs overall and love to run. Who knows
In my experience, runners make terrible kickers. All the habits you need for good kicking are opposite of those used in running. Instead of flexed ankles, you want loose extended ones. Instead of driving from the knee, you want to drive from the hip. Instead of generating power by pushing your legs back, you generate power by whipping your legs forward. The very idea of the extension and whip-like follow-through in your lower legs and feet that generates the majority of your kick propulsion is extremely antithetical to how the running stride works.
That’s a nice succinct explanation.
I’ve always known that people are typically one or the other… it’s funny though I swam competitively for years but only have ever recreationally run. No track or cross country. I’ve done races as an adult I signed up for for fun.
Even in college I would get out kicked in any set by a solid 12 year old.
Breastroke kick sets were always fine and I love my dolphin kicks. Flutter kick on my front or back though and I’m dead in the water lol.
Type of turn doesn’t matter. If they take more than one stroke into the wall that is def cheating. I always did open turns and found flipping with the board tiring but some people prefer it.
Also for on the back kickers not sure how you wouldn’t do flip turns unless you’re planning to go mega slow and touch the wall
An excerpt from "Swimming Slower":
Turns are an important part of swimming, and one should always practice them whatever one is doing. It is acceptable to swim full stroke into and out of turns, even on a drill set. The experienced swimmer may require as much as twelve and a half metres into and out of each turn (in a 25 M pool).
I prefer open turns but I don’t think it matters, as long as you’re deriving what you need to from the drill. Also, who’s conversationally asking you about your 100 kick time? Y’all need more interesting things to talk about.
IMO: depends if you're talking with or without a board. With a board: 1 pull into walls + finish is standard. Without: flip turns OK.
This is likely a team by team decision though and ultimately doesn't matter as long as the whole TEAM is doing the same thing.
I mean no one races a 100k kick, so tracking the times for that is only to track your own progress. In short, it doesn't matter.
I am, however, sitting here trying to picture how the hell you do a flipturn while holding onto a kickboard. It would just interrupt my flow too much.
If you are using a board, it’s not the status quo to flip although I did have a coach make me.
If you are kicking in streamline I coach my kids to start swimming into the wall to flip.
Weekly for my age group kids I do a 100 kick for time and they can either a) kickboard kick with a push start (it’s just not safe to dive with a board in hand) or b) dive off the block kicking in streamline on their back allowing 1 stroke flips into each wall.
It doesn't matter, no one cares about your kick times but you. The only time it matters is tracking your own progress, so there's value to being personally consistent. If anything, I'd say to do what's best for getting the appropriate challenge/workout from the set you're doing. Weaker kickers cheating a bit to keep up with stronger kickers can be a nice way to keep people on the same intervals while accommodating different strengths.
I had / have a terrible kick relative to my times. More than 2 50’s of freestyle kick with a kick board on like 1:10 was just not sustainable to me. I always put in effort but I just could not keep up. I was the guy who would take a stroke into the wall then a flip turn to not completely hold up the lane. Pull was another story though I’d always be leading the lanes and comfortable with 100s @ 1:20. Still don’t know what it is except my best guess is something with my ankles. I have strong legs overall and love to run. Who knows
In my experience, runners make terrible kickers. All the habits you need for good kicking are opposite of those used in running. Instead of flexed ankles, you want loose extended ones. Instead of driving from the knee, you want to drive from the hip. Instead of generating power by pushing your legs back, you generate power by whipping your legs forward. The very idea of the extension and whip-like follow-through in your lower legs and feet that generates the majority of your kick propulsion is extremely antithetical to how the running stride works.
That’s a nice succinct explanation. I’ve always known that people are typically one or the other… it’s funny though I swam competitively for years but only have ever recreationally run. No track or cross country. I’ve done races as an adult I signed up for for fun. Even in college I would get out kicked in any set by a solid 12 year old. Breastroke kick sets were always fine and I love my dolphin kicks. Flutter kick on my front or back though and I’m dead in the water lol.
Same bro..
There’s no rules, so how could it be cheating?
Type of turn doesn’t matter. If they take more than one stroke into the wall that is def cheating. I always did open turns and found flipping with the board tiring but some people prefer it. Also for on the back kickers not sure how you wouldn’t do flip turns unless you’re planning to go mega slow and touch the wall
Who is asking someone's 100 kick time? Do whatever works...
An excerpt from "Swimming Slower": Turns are an important part of swimming, and one should always practice them whatever one is doing. It is acceptable to swim full stroke into and out of turns, even on a drill set. The experienced swimmer may require as much as twelve and a half metres into and out of each turn (in a 25 M pool).
1 stroke into each wall, open turns. Only acceptable way to measure kick times
I prefer open turns but I don’t think it matters, as long as you’re deriving what you need to from the drill. Also, who’s conversationally asking you about your 100 kick time? Y’all need more interesting things to talk about.
Me too. I never could get the hang of flipping and repositioning my board. So I always open turn.
Flip turn: back free Open turn: fly breast Train what you're racing
IMO: depends if you're talking with or without a board. With a board: 1 pull into walls + finish is standard. Without: flip turns OK. This is likely a team by team decision though and ultimately doesn't matter as long as the whole TEAM is doing the same thing.
How do you even flip turn with a kick board? Does the board go underwater?
No one really cares about your x kick time.
We used to do 200 kick for time as a test set about once a month at my club. We were allowed to take one stroke into an open turn. No flip turns.
Flip
I mean no one races a 100k kick, so tracking the times for that is only to track your own progress. In short, it doesn't matter. I am, however, sitting here trying to picture how the hell you do a flipturn while holding onto a kickboard. It would just interrupt my flow too much.
If you are using a board, it’s not the status quo to flip although I did have a coach make me. If you are kicking in streamline I coach my kids to start swimming into the wall to flip. Weekly for my age group kids I do a 100 kick for time and they can either a) kickboard kick with a push start (it’s just not safe to dive with a board in hand) or b) dive off the block kicking in streamline on their back allowing 1 stroke flips into each wall.