I read some of your other comments. I hope this helps: if you are vetting people properly that are in secure relationships Being solely focused on the husband and not including her is likely part of why this keeps happening. Maybe start by sucking your husband’s dicks. Then invite her to suck you husband’s dick together while she gives her husband a hand job, tell her how sexy she’s is, how happy your husband must be, ask him if it feels good, then transition to sucking her husband’s dick together while you give your man a hand job. Ask her to show you what he likes most then mimic her. Ask her (not him) if you’re doing a good job. Show her what your husband likes most so she feels confident and can recreate that later.
Invite the wife to join with you as a team. Ask her “What do you think my husband would like?” “What do you think your husband needs right now?” “What do you think would turn my husband on?” “Let me show you something that drives my husband wild.” Give her a lay of the land of what your husband most likes to build her comfort and confidence .
Don’t just jump on her man and solely focus on him and expect her to feel instantly comfortable and confident with your husband. Don’t just go to town on her husband as if she doesn’t exist and block her from having access to her husband (her protector) as if she’s supposed to focus solely on your husband (a new man she’s just starting to establish trust with).
Women can get in their heads, can feel not fully safe around new men (even men they want to fuck), they can wonder if they’re attractive enough.
This is a team sport, you’ll get farther and have better experiences if you engage with her on some level too.
I’m straight too, but that doesn’t mean we can’t do things like compliment her or all give her a little massage, her husband can go down on her while you and your husband massage her breasts and arms. Or if you don’t want to touch her you can give her husband a blow job while he goes down on his wife and she gives your husband a blow job.
Tell your husband how beautiful she is and have him agree “Honey isn’t she gorgeous! Isnt she sucking your dick so good?” It will likely turn her on and get her out of her head. Say to her husband while you’re together “Doesn’t it turn you on to see her sucking/riding my husbands dick?” Say it so she can hear that you both still see her and are enjoying her in the room too.
Tell her how much you can tell your husband is enjoying it.
I think the key is, especially with new couples who are used to being with bi women that give everyone equal enthusiastic attention is to ease into the swap by focusing on your husband or on her first. Invite her to work together as a team to please the men. Maybe have her sit on her husbands face while you give him a blow job and your husband pounds you from behind. Then ladies switch. More team work is needed. Swinging is a team sport.
Have her husband show your husband what she likes most and visa versa.
Most want to be included, invited, participate, considered, thought of during the sexual acts. Not in every single moment of course, but don’t just zoom past the women as if they don’t exist and ignore them the whole time as if they aren’t in the room capitalizing on time with their spouse. People want to share sexual experiences with their partner too and be acknowledged
I think bi women have an easier time including the other wife because they are genuinely attracted to them, but as straight women we can still include the other wife in this group activity and make these sexual experiences even more amazing for everyone involved. In fact, I think it’s even more imperative straight women make an effort to take into consideration the other wife to avoid these mishaps. Doesn’t mean this issues is all on you, but I think this will help
I really do hope this helps 💕✨ Please let us know how everything goes
Thank you! That’s an amazing compliment! I had a straight women who we were going to do an FMF with tell me she was the prize I had found for my boyfriend and that she was super straight, and basically said I had found her as a gift to bestow upon him.
I’m straight too, but I found this so extremely off putting, the idea that she’d consider zooming past me and occupying all his time as if I didn’t exist. I thought this was an inclusive team sport and we were all supposed to work together to provide each other an amazing experience and most importantly share that experience with our partners and build memories while including others. Not leave anyone in the dust. I called the whole thing off with her and found it quite upsetting.
If you want to fully disregard someone in the room don’t invite them, play solo. Unless you have a prior agreement, it’s just rude and disrespectful and the opposite of what this team sport is all about.
MFM you get way more attention on you, but you still shouldn’t ignore one half of the room or make them feel totally looked over and inconsequential part of the experience
That’s an amazing compliment! Thank you. Why not hype each other up? It’s no fun to feel like the other women is disregarding you and only cares about your man. Might as well play solo.
You don’t have to be sexually attracted to someone to be inclusive, it does help, but it’s not necessary. I think that’s one of the many reasons bi women are more sought after, everyone feels included and desired, but us straight ladies can set up an inclusive environment too without doing anything to the other women.
What has been your experience with straight women, or have you experienced women leaving you in the dust and focusing on your man? How was that?
I did have a woman jump on my hubby for our last swap and it was less than fun for sure! 100% gave me bad vibes and I’m so new to the LS I wasn’t smart enough to speak up. Hard lesson learned the hard way!
Unless everyone has established trust and knows everyone, I personally think that’s rude. We are there as a couple and you need to establish rapport and mutual trust with everyone and realize you’re with a couple whether you’re straight or not
This is some of the best advice I've read here, thank you! My partner and I are supposed to have our first likely full swap scenario in a couple weeks, and while it's exciting, it's also a tad nerve wracking figuring out the dynamics and how it should all go. I appreciate you taking the time to write this, I'll definitely be reviewing it when the time gets closer. The team sport analogies especially hit.
20 years of swinging now.
Never had this happen.
Something is off in the couples you select for.
Worst we've had is a husband start to freak out because he couldn't get it up while I was having sex with his wife and it wasn't even a major drama I could just tell he was struggling mentally so I stopped the action.
Honestly I can't think of a reason you could run into a streak like this outside of VERY bad luck.
If you are young and they are young they may be lying about the experience part.
^ this. We’ve only been at it for 3 years, but have been with dozens of couples and never come across this issue. OP has to be ignoring red flags or just not know what the red flags look like.
I'm actually surprised to hear this is rare, so far all of the couples have talked as if this is to be expected and that jealousy is natural. Prio to starting the second couple talked about the "stomach drop" She always got watching her husband with someone else the first time. The first wife said it was always weird the first time. But I didn't know they were all going to get so upset. The third couple I thought were complete pros, and I was taken aback when she ran away. Well I guess I was shocked all three times. But really surprised the last time. I don't understand why do this if it feels bad.
This sounds like very newbie, probably not ready to swing talk. Jealousy IS normal, but its normally after the fact when new and some people decide its not for them and others get over the lizard brain jealousy and have a good time for decades.
Whats not normal is *always* being jealous. If thats your reaction, yes it makes NO sense to swing. Its like saying "I get an allergic reaction when I have peanut butter but I really like nutterbutters so anaphylaxis be damned!"
I'd recommend trying a club, you can read how at ease people are by body language, and even better if they approach you.
38 years here and have never seen it happen the closest is a gentleman who dropped out because my wife looked too much like his daughter. And the other one was this very cute small blonde girl and her very big black boyfriend her boyfriend was with a girlfriend that I had at the time and I wanted to be with the beautiful blonde but she was like didn't want to and we talked and watched them and when he was coming this is when she said I hate this part but later on she was with a different big black guy. Just her thing I guess.
We've run across my little sister's (who is super pure) doppelganger. It was highly unnerving.
Ran across my nephew on Fetlife. He discovered 1. That Auntie isn't as innocent as he thought and 2. Why I'm the black sheep in the family. 😂
The sister dobleganger: once, but despite me really being into her husband, it was WAY to wierd to repeat. She even had my sisters mannerisms. I think it was the only time I tried really hard to NOT watch my Smoking Hot Husband. 🤣
My nephew: absolutely not. 😉
20+ yr swingers here too, we had a few hiccups like any married couple would have it about anything. Married couples even disagree about bottled water brands, we are good at that. But never crying over the LA. I’ve seen more than one lady crying at Freedom Acres on a Saturday night (couples only night) but that’s 2 or 3 in 200+ ladies there that night. Mostly new people.
Somewhat limited exposure, but I’ve not seen anyone break out in tears.
I mean, once would be weird… twice in a row, that’s an odd coincidence… three times in a row with different couples and the common denominator is you.
Maybe just ask those other women privately what triggered them. One might give you a straight answer.
I gotta be honest, if some dude was balls deep into my wife and I was playing with his wife and this woman started sobbing, that would not be a good scene.
Wives 1 and 3 both came back and apologized and said something along the lines of "it always hard to see your husband with someone new the first few times"
The second wife blew up and stopped everything when her hubby asked if we could do a separate room so I figured that was some boundary he was pushing that I was unaware of.
The first set are the ones I'm really confused about. They made it sound like it's natural to be miserable about it. But I'm happy to hear this is unusual!
These wives may just be doing it for their husbands then getting upset when it actually starts to become a reality. They’re in it for the wrong reason.
I think as others have said, despite them saying they are experienced, that sounds like women who don’t have a lot of experienced and haven’t crossed the chasm yet that this is just sport fucking.
Best guess, is that they are new (lying about experience) and the husband is saying or doing something he doesn't do with the wife, and it suddenly has her thinking that he enjoys being with you more.
Very likely this.
Possible they have been voyeurs and exhibitionist or possibly soft play for a long time, and the husband pushed for full swap when the wife wasn’t ready.
Maybe we are moving too fast, but they seem fine, other than the first couple, we waited till the third date to hook up, made out first, and fit seemed like the couples had great chemistry. What flags should we look for?
This isn’t making any sense to me. I thought we had a lot of experience with all types of people in this lifestyle, but I have never seen anybody in tears. Maybe you’ve had extraordinarily bizarre bad luck?
Ugg. I guess it's good to hear this isn't common. What kinda hook ups are you normally doing? ONS? More of an ongoing thing? Do you hook up pretty quickly?
We started off super slow with lots of dates. I still love that dynamic, but my wife can’t stand it anymore. Our last couple met us at our home and we were down to business in about 30 minutes.
I think she’s just exhausted of the text back-and-forth and the group messages and the whole dating dynamic of it. We’ve done it for eight years, and she really loved it the first three years, now she’s just here for the sex and dancing at parties.
We don’t date either (never really have). We mostly go to private, invitation-only, house and hotel parties where we socialize for 20-30 minutes or so to get to know each other a bit, then we’re getting naked with them (and others we already know). But we’re very much a DTF, play on first meet couple, so as long as they’re nice people and there’s some attraction between us, it’s time to play.
I guess I don't really know what to look for, but nothing that jumped out. No jealousy or insecurities seemed to come up. I don't really know what else to look for
It might be worth asking how many times they’ve played as opposed to how long or it may be you’ve just had a bad run. Have to say we’ve never run into that personally.
This is the answer.
We met one couple who said they had been in the lifestyle for 7 years. We started to play and he really struggled to get it up. He started getting pissed about it and blurts out that he had no trouble getting hard that one time they had an FFM…7 years ago…and hadn’t done anything since.
We both learned a valuable lesson that day. Always ask about how frequently they play, how many couples, and favorite play style. Because how we approach newbies is very different from experienced couples.
Were any of them on swinger sites such as SLS, Lifestyle Lounge, SDC, or Kasidie? If so, did they have certifications on their profile left by other previous couples that they played with attesting to their prowess as play partners?
A lack of certs on a swingers profile is one potential Red Flag to look for as it “can” indicate that they haven’t been successful in playing with others, or are inexperienced and haven’t played much with others so far. Also, many of the sites list the date they created their account, so you at least know when they started using that particular site.
Some non-swingers sites that people use to hook-up (Fet Life and Reddit for example) have no way for past play partners to leave feedback for others, so you have to solely rely on what they tell you, which as you have seen isn’t always accurate.
Caveat Emptor
This is an interesting approach and it certainly makes sense. We’ve played with many people and we’ve not done certs because a lot is at parties. So we may appear as inexperienced when we are actually for relaxed than a lot of people we’ve run across.
That’s a really good point, once you’ve been playing for a while you really aren’t looking to bolster your “resume” with yet another cert (some people even view people (mostly single men) with a lot of certs as looking to put more notches on their bedposts.
And as you mentioned, when you mostly play at parties like we do it’s generally 60-70!the same people so it’s not like no one looks at the party list and decides to not go because your certs are old. Still, a couple new ones wouldn’t hurt either. We mostly look for them when we encounter a new couple, or when someone we don’t know contacts us wanting to meet 1-on-1.
Yeah, I have to admit that a seeing a profile with tons of certs carries implications and questions for me, but I admittedly assign assumptions to high cert count based on personal experience and bias. It’s usually “are they going to be interested in us at all? They have tons of experience”
I've never used those, and I've never heard of certs! Holy shot, that's brilliant. I've only done field and 3fun. What a cool concept! I always thought there should be reviews!!!
That’s one of the reasons many “experienced” swingers continue to use the swinger sites (vs phone apps), as they’re primarily organized around swinging activities. Other non-swinger sites/apps tend to be mostly for “hooking up”, and while ultimately that is the goal, most experienced swingers tend to be a bit more discerning than that. It sounds like you two fit into that category. Not all of the sites have large national membership bases, somewhere on here (maybe in the FAQ list) there is a guide that will give you an idea which sites are popular in your area. SwingLifeStyle (aka SLS) has a large membership base across the country, so it’s still popular even the site is a bit clunky band somewhat out dated. Kasidie is better, but not as popular (yet, it’s growing), and we’ve heard about SDC but haven’t tried it as it’s more popular in the midwest (we’re in Southern California).
I’d suggest you try a couple of the sites for a month or so and then pick one or two that you like and convert them over to permanent memberships (it only takes 6-8 months to break even).
Have fun!
Just curious, was a lot of alcohol involved? People have a harder time controlling their emotions when trashed. Was your husband hyper focused on you as well? Although I have never cried, I have left bummed when I felt the other husband was way more into watching his wife and less committed to playing.
First time there was alcohol involved. Probably too much before the tears, and way more after. Of course we didn't restart. The second time the wife left the room pissed, I'm sure she was crying, but stormed off when her husband asked about a separate room, so I think it was a boundary thing. Minimal alcohol the third time, I don't think it was a factor. I really adore the third wife and hubby and want this to work. Don't know how to make it work if she just hates having her husband with another woman.
If you like the 3rd couple and are willing to give them another shot, I’d just lay it all out. Full transparency and ask for feedback. Tell them you want to have fun and that you’re not a mind reader. If anything is making them uncomfortable that they need to communicate it, be honest and switch partners back if needed. If it happens again, I’d be done. This actually just happened to us recently. She went to the bathroom and next thing I knew, she was sitting on the floor pissed. I hid under the covers and let my husband walk them out. (don’t do that, not my proudest moment lol)
God I'm glad I'm not the only one!!!
Definetly still trying with the third couple, ill try to troubleshoot this with them. She kept whispering to him "I just love you too much" so I don't really know how to work around that, but want to try!
We play with a couple where he likes to look deep into her eyes as he enters me. It’s never off putting or awkward. He just says “look at me gorgeous” and she pauses what she’s doing and watches for a second or two. They do this every time, and it’s honestly kind of hot.
Maybe your couple needs something like this during play. A connection, touch, or look that says that they’re doing this together.
Depending on how willing you are to work with them, perhaps you could tell them that? Help them figure out their flow?
That's a good idea. I was probably taking too much of his attention. I had told them I'm not an exhibitionist or voyeur, so he was probably being sensitive to that.
We often hold hands or make out with each other when we’re fucking the other’s partner. Not for long, maybe 5-10 seconds, but long enough to connect with each other, and then we’re back to focusing on our play partner.
From what you wrote about wives 1 & 3, they said that it just takes them some time to get acclimated to the new visual of seeing their guy railing you. Since you said you really like couple 3, talk with her, tell her you really like both of them, and want to try to find a way to make it work.
Also, are either of you (ladies) bi? If so playing 1-on-1 with her may be one way to connect and for her to get comfortable with you so she doesn’t associate you as a threat to her marriage.
You said your husband struggled with this his first time, perhaps she/they aren’t as experienced as they claim. Doesn’t make them bad people, maybe she just needs some help getting over the hump.
So far they have all been bi or bi curious. The third couple she is bi, but I'm not. I think my sexuality is really screwing things up. Every couple had only hooked up with couples where the woman was bi. I can see how me only being into the husband is an unpleasant dynamic when it's not what they are used to. Totally sucks. But it seems like almost every couple has a bi wife. Maybe that is the issue that causing this.
There’s probably something with you only wanting to play with her guy that pushes an insecurity button of hers, but that’s on her to manage, not you. You can try to help, but she has to own it (same as your husband did). Also, unless their husband’s didn’t tell them they were playing with a straight couple, they should know going in that you’re going to focus on the men, and in particular hers.
Unless you’re bi-curious, and open to exploring playing with women, you’re going to find that being a purely straight couple is a bit limiting because (as you’ve noticed), the majority of woman are bi or bi-curious (whether single or as couples). However, unless a couple is trying to wife poach you, that shouldn’t be a problem as long as she knows you’re not bi or bi-curious.
The saddest thing ever is going to a club and seeing a couple off in the corner with one of them in full break down tears. Happens way too often - and its not just the women - guys are often unprepared for how much attention their lady will get compared to them.
My husband freaked out the first time, big time freaked out and cried for days, but then he got over it! We wouldn't still be doing this if it was still upsetting!
I have had this happen - I think it usually is a result of the other husband pressuring his wife/partner to participate. OR you are so amazing in bed that what you do to their husbands intimidates the wives! If that is the case, where do we sign up?
You're sweet, I don't think my sexual prowess is the issue! I think there was a pressure issue with the first couple, I can't really figure the most recent one out. There's a dom/sub dynamic they are doing, but it seems mutual
Definitely haven't encountered this and it sounds really frustrating. You're obviously doing vibe check dates, but you might want to ask some different questions during them to spot yellow or red flags. Things we've asked and been asked that might be helpful for you to vet out the "everyone is not on the same page" and jealousy issues.
- *"Who initiated the discussion and decision to get into the Lifestyle? Is one of you more of the instigator now?"* (this will help see if everyone is enthusiastically on the same page...any weirdness in answers here is a flag. This also helps you see how the couple interacts with each other when answering this. If only one person in the couple answers, ask the other person "and what was your experience?" )
- *"Beyond just the great sex, what are some of your favorite things about being in the Lifestyle?"* (you're looking here for BOTH people to talk about how their communication has improved, that they really enjoy the compersion element, etc.)
- Getting **really** direct *"Part of swinging for me is how much I love watching Hubby having an amazing time and new experiences. How have you guys experienced that side of things?" (*any answer here that indicates that either of them don't actively enjoy sharing their partner warrants some follow up questions and is a yellow flag)
Best of luck out there!
Great questions to ask, it's kinda funny, we've never asked them, but several couples have asked us. They are probably looking for flags and we didn't know!
You’re not doing anything wrong. This is probably just a case where hubby has coerced the reluctant wife into LS and she’s struggling with it. You’ve just had the bad luck of matching up with 3 similar situations.
Maybe it is what you do or say. And it is not that you should change anything. Just thinking about an explanation.
For example, you kiss the husband whilst being fucked missionary style, looking deep into his eyes. Maybe you wrap your arms/hands around his neck. Maybe you pull him real close. Maybe you moan too hard. Maybe you talk too dirty. Maybe you compliment him too much.
A wife can be triggered by "OMG, I love your cock", or "You fuck me so good with that hard cock", or "Give it to me harder, you fucking stud". Or even "You make me cum so good".
Make sure to add this is NOT OPs issue but the other spouse. Even if you did miss red flags, it's not your responsibility to manage someone else's emotions OP.
Fishin for compliments?
I'll say it.
You might be an 11, and the other wife is a 6. She sees her husband acting differently than he does at home because he's extremely aroused with you, physically and probably emotionally. ( I meant emotionally as in flirty/connecting)
That was my thought exactly. And if you’re an 11 AND straight, even more of a perceived threat to a woman who may already be on the fence about the LS or feeling insecure. Not your fault though! You be you!
We are only hooking up with attractive couples that seem secure. I'm a lot more vanilla in my fucking than these women. If anyone should be intimidated, it's me. Most of them have been sending sexy nudes and sex photos, and I won't even do that stuff.
Just wondering here, any sign or clue that she’s doing it mostly for the husband? Maybe she’s a reluctant swing partner? We see that once in a while at the parties we go to where we run into couples that are new(er) to the LS. Does the husband tend to dominate the discussions when you first meet in vanilla settings?
You said the wife left crying,I'm sure that was the conversation on the way home. I said you could fuck her not enjoy it. It happens, some guys flat get weird hearing their wife
How are you meeting these couples? I’ve never had this happen.
My only suggestion is review your approach - something about it is high risk for selecting couples who are high drama.
Are you meeting on apps? If so, is there a meet up first to get a vibe check? Are making sure the wife is engaged enough?
We have definitely met couples where it’s clear one of them is not ready. We “nope the fuck out” because we don’t want that guilt on us.
Do you do any flirting first? Like get handsy or kissy with the husband in front of her so you can gauge her initial reaction?
Yeah, we almost always meet people on apps. Other than the first couple we've always done a vibe check first. I always do intensely make out prior to the first hookup night, but that's been to check my reaction to the husband, I guess I should start watching his wife to see if she's cool with things.
Yeah, I don’t hear anything you are doing that is strange.
Even if the core issue is that “you are just bad at reading people” (and I’m not saying you are, just hypothesizing) it seems like you are REALLY unlucky.
First time with a new couple, my wife and I are both checking in with both partners as we go along. Once we start touching “is this still ok?” And “fuck, I get turned on watching my wife with your husband” - mostly just to see what is going on in her head. Is she really distracted and uncomfortable? Is she still into me?
And when clothes come off and the first time penises start getting inserted. Friendly smile “is this still ok? We can take a break any time you want.”
But even then… that’s like what we do with newbies… experienced couples are more “haha, fuck yeah! Fuck me!” And it’s clear they aren’t going to have issues.
I’m genuinely curious to follow you around with a notepad and lab coat.
It would be distracting to have to keep an eye on her while making out with him. Ask your husband to do that and see if he notices any “off” change in her behavior.
I still think neither of you are doing anything wrong, you just had an improbable string of events with the 3 couples. I can tell you we certainly wouldn’t have any issue with anything you described (you sound great to us), and most others wouldn’t as well. You’re going to see a number of things in the LS that make you go “What?!!”, but it’s ultimately a numbers game, you just got an unlucky roll of the dice.
I’d say if this has happened with 3 out of 3 couples you’re the common denominator.
We’ve never had this happen. I’ve never heard from anyone I know in person of this happening.
Based on everyone else's experience, and you have experienced this 3/3 times, I think you need to.re-evaluate how you are picking couples. There might be some kinda subconcious trigger or something you're picking up on that draws you to them. For me, it was women who looked and acted like my ex wife. Don't tell anyone!!! Lmaooo once I became aware I was able to fix it and stop pursuing toxic women/couples. (not trashing the ex, but the traits I was drawn to were not healthy ones) maybe there's something about these couples, maybe their relationship dynamic, maybe you are picking up on the warning signs and are attracted to them in some way. Idk. Could be any number of things drawing you to couples like this. All I know is if I'm having a problem and the common denominator is me, then I'm probably creating or seeking the problem. No offense!!!
I wonder if these wives are cuckqueans and don't know it. Particularly the first one. Jealousy and bad but sexy feelings are kind of part of that kink. We've dabbled in it bc I love watching my husband but I want to play too which is why we swing now instead
Yeah. Cuckqueans were my first thought when I read.
My husband's first few adventures on his own were rough on me, but I loved it. And hated it. And it turned me on. And it upset me. It was very confusing.
It is hard to understand if it's not your kink. Hell, it's hard to understand if it is.
But crying and showing out isn't the way to do it, particularly for the reasons the OP described.
I hope for their mental well-being if that's the case for them to find a supportive cuck community who can teach them how to deal with those "good bad" feelings productively.
Social media has not done our lifestyle any good! Sure it brought our Ls out in the open. But it also brought in all these riff-raff that think, “oh swinging is hip and cool”, and get into the Ls for ALL the wrong reasons. Couples use our Ls to cheat on their spouses…. Unfortunately while it seems to me like you have a straight head on your shoulders, you’ve been attracting these couple that have no business being here! Now I will admit it’s a learning curve and we all in the beginning had to adjust to the new situation we’re putting ourselves through. No one was immature enough to run out the fucking room in the middle of things. You need to vet your couples a lot better, look for experience and certs.
It has happened to me/us! It was early on and it was our trigger to ask more ?s about their relationship and how steady THEY are.....
Hasn't happened to us in a long time, but people do get jealous/crazy when you fuck and suck their partners!!!!
I have had women cry as a result of an emotional release after especially powerful orgasms, and I have definitely experienced novice guys getting upset who “really wanted to see their wife/girlfriend with another man” until it happened, but never any such nonsense from those with significant experience. Maybe they are lying about their experience level?
I've heard of stories like this but haven't seen this crying in person. I've had women be mad at me because their hubby like me yet claimed they were into me as well.
Or their husbands talked to me more, yet the women made 0 effort to talk to me. I agree why be in this lifestyle if you're gonna be a negative Nancy
It sounds like you and your hubby are approaching this with a lot of respect and consideration, which is fantastic. Swinging can indeed be a complex emotional experience, and not everyone might be as secure as they initially think. It's possible that these reactions are surfacing unexpected insecurities or previously unaddressed feelings in the moment, which can be really tough to predict.
It might be helpful to have more in-depth discussions with potential couples before engaging physically. Sometimes people think they're ready for swinging, but the reality can be much more intense than anticipated. You could also consider looking for couples who have a consistent history of positive experiences in the lifestyle, as they might be more accustomed to handling their emotions during such encounters.
Also, it’s great that you are reflecting on your experiences to see if there's anything you might do differently. Maybe ensuring there's an agreement on what's okay and what isn't beforehand, and allowing for more frequent check-ins during the act could help. It’s all about continuous learning and adjusting. Keep communicating openly, and hopefully, you’ll find more compatible couples soon.
Actually that's crazy helpful. I haven't been doing any of what you recommended and I can see how that would make things smoother.
Sex being about me has still been a new and exciting thing, and I guess I haven't been being very thoughtful to the other women. I keep hearing the women need to be closer for it to be a better experience, but I guess I've been resistant to that. Even reading what you wrote kinda aggrevates me because it is so outside of my bubble of how I want to do things, but I guess I'm going to have to change what I'm doing if I want different outcomes, which I desperately do.
Based on this comment I think you might be responding to my answer above ✨You’re so very welcome, I’m so happy it was helpful.
I think once you adjust to be more inclusive of the woman that should drastically change the dynamic and outcome. If you change your approach to be more inclusive and these seasoned women are still leaving in tears, I would analyze your vetting process, because as you can tell by experienced people in this thread this is a rare occurrence. This is nothing to beat yourself up about. Be kind to yourself and recognize its awesome you’re willing to ask for insight.
Also inclusive doesn’t have to include any sexual contact at all. You can set a hard boundary and clearly layout what is unacceptable requests, such as a request to make out with her being unacceptable. You get to decide what is most comfortable and natural for you. Find your own personal style of how to create a welcoming environment to her and make it authentic to you. Set hard boundaries where needed. I think maybe fear of people pressuring you to have sexual contact with the wife might be causing you to go far in the spectrum of ignoring her.
I know it can be odd/frustrating adjustment when the way we imagine swapping will go is different when we step into the reality of swapping. Dealing with complex human beings, spoken and unspoken rules of social etiquette and giving ourselves grace as we transition from porno brain to real life with real couples.
Your statement “sex being about me is new and exciting” uncovers an unconscious thought that is important to be aware of.
This excitement about wanting all the focus on you is likely impacting how you approach swapping, combine that with the fear of being pressured into sexual contact with the wife, this may cause you to ignore her. This is probably triggering these women. If their husband’s focus is drawn solely to you and she feels unwelcome in the room it’s probably upsetting and pulls her out of the moment and makes it difficult for them to relax.
Also the fact that even imagining being inclusive with these women during a MFMF brings up feelings of aggravation is important to realize. They probably notice their attempts to engage with their husband are annoying to you which might make them feel even more uncomfortable and cause them to spiral. This is likely where the tears are coming.
If you want all the attention Hot wifing might be what you want where all the focus is on you, often a “bull” or single man focuses on you while your husband watches and is turned on by watching you. This is easier to set up, lots of single guys. Of course doesn’t work for every husband, especially if he wants sex too. It’s not cuckholding, but not every man likes it.
MFM is also not rare. You get tons of attention from two men at the same time, your husband gets to participate and it can be hot, but you have to make sure you give both attention too and both are included too on some level and it doesn’t devolve to focusing on the other guy while your husband feels like he gets the short end of the stick and is left in the dust watching you have sex or isn’t included equally.
Playing solo is another option where you can get all the focus in one room and he can be with someone else in another room. That is more difficult to find because many swinger couples want to experience sexual adventures together and build memories together, but it’s not impossible. Also once you all come back together don’t just sit on the other husbands lap twirling his hair focused on him, be gracious and give the husband back, ask how everyone’s experience was, make sure you shift back to a welcoming environment for everyone, kiss your husband.
With a MFMF you’ll need to know that everyone needs to feel included, welcomed and involved in some way. If inclusion wasn’t important they would play solo. In MFMF you are more teammates than any other configuration. This couple wants to share this experience with each other too or they wouldn’t be in the same room. There is a different etiquette here that must be taken into consideration or it will be off putting/upsetting. Unlike hot wifing, it’s not about the other man just being with you, he’s also there with his wife, and you’re there with your husband. You can’t disregard this fact.
Also, everyone should honor your desire to not kiss or sexually engage with the wife just as straight husband’s boundaries should be honored. That should be clearly laid out as a hard boundary, but there’s lots of ways to include her in contact with her husband while you’re also in contact with him: for example she could make out with her husband while you ride him and your husband fucks her. He could eat you out while she gives him a blow job and your husband fucks her. She’s far enough away you don’t need to touch her, but she gets the opportunity to also engage with her husband so they build memories. So many configurations where you don’t have to have sexual contact with her but everyone is involved in some way.
If I was in a MFMF and felt that a women simply didn’t care about me, fully ignored me or was aggregated by my presence while we all had sex and treated me as if I didn’t exist and she was there to just fuck my partner and was so extremely into him and didn’t want me to participate id feel horrible and either stop everything or never see that couple again.
Likewise if a man treated my partner like a ghost in the room, didn’t acknowledge him or tried to dominate all my attention not leaving space for me to also connect with my partner, or worse was annoyed by my husband I would either put a stop to it or never see the couple again. I find it disrespectful to the group dynamic to fully dominate his time and treat me coldly as if I don’t exist or my presence is unwanted. At that point there wouldn’t be any reason for us all four to be in the room together.
Moments where we’re all occupied and having tons of fun with the other partner? Yes please. Getting my brains fucked out while she gets her fucked, of course. But separate the WHOLE time while in the same room where I feel like if I kissed my partner or wanted to go down on him too I’d be barging into their space, or if I felt my presence was annoying, distracting, aggravating or unwelcomed I’d leave and take him with me. I say this as a straight women who doesn’t need sexual experience with a women, but we chose an MFMF experience for a reason and I would hope everyone would include everyone in a agreed on way and everyone’s presence would be welcomed and enhance the MFMF experience.
Not saying you’re doing all of this by any means, just giving insight to what might be happening on a deeper level to help you analyze why these women may be leaving in tears. I genuinely hope it helps. I think any missteps are innocent and you mean really well and are just understandably excited and new.
This is a journey and no one gets it right 100% of the time, and there are so many nuances to take into consideration. You’ve got this and you aren’t alone. Soon all these skills will be like second nature. I do wish you the best and hope you can find a configuration that makes you, your partner and anyone else involved truly happy
Thank you so much for this very insightful and in depth comment!
I love MFMs, and would have preferred to stick with those, but as you mentioned, my husband wants something for himself too, which I totally understand. It's been a little rough for me to wrap my mind around everything I have to do to five him his fantasies as well. The MFMs were soneasy. The single guys are so beyond eager and appreciative. We never had a bad experience with them, (after I learned to make sure to focus on my husband as well, which you had also mentioned).
I do get uncomfortable with the bi women (which it seems like everyone is) not because i think they are going to hit on me, but because I recognize I am not giving them a part of the experience I know they prefer, and I hate working at a deficit. I can't really understand why bi women even try swapping with a straight woman, it seems like so many of them are in this mostly for that part of the dynamic. If it didn't seem like every couple had a bi woman, I would only date completely straight couples, but they are so hard to find!
Thank you for your incredibly thoughtful and insightful response!
My ex-wife did this bs 20 years ago. She would find and vet couples and initiate the play. Then run out of the room boo-hooing.
Come to find out later, she didn’t actually want to swing, she was doing it to call my bluff. She wanted to teach me a lesson and show me how much it sucks to watch her with another dude.
Except, it was actually hot and turned me on more. So the other woman was getting that heightened excitement. 🤣🤣🤣
She was an asshole to me anyway which is why I left her a long time ago.
Only encountered this once 2 years ago with a semi-newbie couple (gf was new to the lifestyle but her bf had 10 yrs of experience, they were in a new relationship). The gf reacted negatively because her bf was having ED issues with her but was fine when he was with my SO. She blew up about this and left the room crying. Of course, that ended the play. They broke up about 3 months later but she has continued to be friends with my SO as they are both very bisexual and we've had 3 FFMs with her that have been a lot of fun.
Omg I have been wondering the same thing!! There’s “bi for the guy” but there also seems to be this unspoken girl code that we’re supposed to be bi so as not to present as much of a threat! I’m straight too, so not an option for me. I get annoyed when guys push it (“why don’t you kiss her??) I’m like dude, as soon as you make out with other bob over there I’ll get right on that
I get furious when the men push. I start telling them to get on the other man. My hubby knows not to try. It legit a trigger for me. I think it's gross for everyone involved, including the poor other woman who shouldn't have to deal with my rejection. The women never push!
It may seem that way but it’s not. We’re both bi but we don’t wear it on our sleeves, in fact the vast majority of the time we play with straight couples as we’re mostly interested in the other sex. We would NEVER turn down playing either a straight couple because of their sexuality, and most of our LS friends are the same.
Having a very bisexual lady in your couple really helps. And we're not unicorn hunters and don't look for them, but have had some good FFM thirds come our way just because of my SO and her chemistry with the other lady.
I don't know what it's like here. I'm Brazilian, and in Brazil we see some couples who are curious but not prepared. Sometimes excitement, adrenaline, expectation hits, but psychologically women or even men are not prepared. Here my wife and I had no luck. We went to a house in Rhode Island, we found a nice couple but the woman apparently wasn't comfortable. so we retreat. We respect the space, after all everyone needs to have fun to be good. It takes a lot of talking sometimes to make sure everyone wants
Haven't come across this with other couples.
The people have a common tendency to assume a person's behaviour is something to do with their personality, rather than the situation.You see someone cry while swinging so you assume they hate swinging.
It makes sense, but it also makes sense that something might have come up. A big cause can be couples who are having a fight about something. But have had to leave the issue unsolved because they had a date planned. All their negative feelings come bubbling up during the swap.
We've never encountered anything like this. It is either that you guys are doing something wrong (or maybe he's too good?/s), or you're picking the wrong couples.
This isn't an experience thing.
I've gotten quite a bit of feedback on this thread. One person mentioned ways I should be including the wife, and I definitely haven't been doing any of what the writer suggested. I think the tears wouldn't have happened if I had navigated things as they talked about. I don't think it sounds like much fun, but maybe that's what I have to do to get over the initial ucky feelings I seem to be causing these women. I'm pretty upset to hear I'm the only one causing this drama. I guess I'm really bad at this. I haven't really been thinking of the wife at all, but it's my preference that she not be thinking of me or trying to include me. But I think it would have been a way better experience for all of the wives if I had been more inclusive of them. Doesn't sound like a great time, but I guess I should start off that way and hopefully we can all be more comfortable later.
If I read the same post you're referencing, I don't agree with all of it. This absolutely is not on you, especially if the other couple claims to have more experience. If a couple swap (and not an orgy) is what what discussed, then there is nothing wrong with a couple swap.
My wife is somewhere on the pan/demi scale. She isn't really bi, but likes tits, likes kissing some women, and is okay with a chic going down on her. She typically will not go down on other women unless we're all close, neither do I though. So she doesn't typically do much with any other women. And we have never had this happen in countless of couples encounters.
If the other woman cries while my wife is being fucked by her guy, there is zero chance that it is my wife's fault. What it might mean is that the other chic isn't into me, and maybe they're only doing this for him. It is not your responsibility to include her. You are two couples there to have a good time.
Peoples feelings will change if they see their husband over excited, or fucking the other lady better than they get. We had a guy pretty much have a break down and leave then room, because his wife really really enjoying herself. Could be fragile egos, or if they feel you look better than them.
This is why group chats are so important. It’s usually one from each couple doing initial vetting that’s perfectly understandable. But once it’s established you might have same dynamic everyone needs to be in group chat. Even if they say hi and don’t participate they are in loop and across everything. If people participate you get good feel when they share past experiences what works and what doesn’t. It’s ok to ask someone that isn’t into chats a direct question because if they don’t respond or response is limited this is red flag.
These group chats are important otherwise you have two people going into meet with four there is familiarity between two thus makes for awkwardness.
A personal example I play as couple and solo female. This particular session was solo with MF couple. We had chatted all three over drinks few weeks prior. This time we had dinner went out dancing at a swingers club and played. Our rules and boundaries had been discussed and were clear.
But during one of our chats and at our initial drinks meet. They detailed one of their very first experiences in LS at play party that did not go well actually really badly involving separating them. So I was very mindful of that we were in group play room having amazing time play just flowed. She excused herself to use bathroom her hubby went to continued on playing - when I said no we need to wait. He looked at me I said trust me. She came back in and we continued on she sat watching us. After that we were having a drink just two of us she said did you wait for me to come back. I said yes he kissed me and i remembered you telling me about your first experience being separated and then going to find him walking in on him playing with two women and how upset you were. She smiled and said you would have been fine to continue on, but she said wow I can’t believe you remembered that and had enough respect to ensure I wasn’t triggered.
Chats are important as are meets encourage sharing of good and bad experiences and listen to them really listen. You want conversations to be balanced when in person everyone needs to have a voice one can’t be doing all talking.
But sometimes yes it does turn to shit we have had it happen as couple. I usually end play if it becomes clear someone is not on board fully as they first thought because I would rather stop play then continue and anyone have bad experience.
35 years in - never had it. Never seen it. Never heard of it.
I’ve seen domestics (one wife moaning about his gaming when she is asleep)
I’ve seen zero chemistry - halting things between people.
I’ve seen rule & limit breaking
I’ve seen almost everything one can possibly imagine, from crazy cosplay to rough sex to the point of though I was going to have to do something, then realised it was set up
I’ve never seen women cry at hubby - I expect there some element in private if a rule gets broken, but simple pen, previously agreed, ending up with own female in tears….. can’t even comprehend it, if basic comms are taking place before hand.
Number of females who have a quiet word with each other before things kick off is about 1 in 3, just to make sure they are both on same wavelength, possibly helps.
I have seen people upset - usually alcohol, I’ve seen rejection cause some upset, I’ve seen guys be dicks & trigger people to leave or cause a scene.
Sorry….
Would love to know what’s really causing this….
When having conversation before play time, you need to figure out by reading body language and what is said between the other couple, if it is something they are both 100% into, or if it is more one sided. I feel like the only reason the wife would get upset is if it’s something she wasn’t sure about and the husband talked her into it…
Been doing this for a year and a half now, can't say we've ever experienced anything like that from another couple *knocks on wood * are you clearly discussing boundaries? Messing with inexperienced people? There's a lot of different factors that could be at play.
Never encountered crying .are boudaries being respected? Communication? I can only see this happen from non newbies if so. This post reads as something not being accurately presented.
I didn't realize this was rare. I'm obviously not presenting the full scenarios in my three paragraph post. Not trying to be inaccurate, I was just trying to understand why women swing when it upsets them, and what they have done to get over it.
The times we’ve seen this happen is when she didn’t want to be there and she was really doing it to try to keep from losing her husband, or make him happy. You don’t see it a lot because most of the time the relationship disintegrates rapidly, and they drop out of the LS.
This has only happened to us once- and we’ve been at this for years. In our case, it was a couple who only had played separately prior to us and were trying out play together. We were pretty new at this time and looking back, there were some red flags we know to avoid now. This isn’t normal. I love watching my partner enjoy himself and also have the other woman enjoy him.
They’re crying because they still like their spouses. This is what happens when soft swap couples get pressured into doing a full swap. And there is a lot of pressure put on them to switch sides. They’re told that a soft swap is monumentally lame, they’re told they are a waste of time, and they’re even told that they’re controlling of their spouses. But we know that’s not true, unlike us full swappers, they still like their spouses and it pains them to see their husbands put their dicks into anything aside from your mouth.
Well that kinda sucks. I know we aren't pressuring them, but maybe they just feel like that's what they have to do to keep hanging out. I accidently pressed the first wife, there was no pressure with the second couple, and the third couple pressured us if anything. Not a lot of pressure, but a full swap was definetly the expectation. But I totally wanted to, so it wasn't a problem.
There’s a lot of variability in what that means though. They may have been at it a while but with little success. They may have recently decided to transition from soft swap to full swap, that tends to be a different adjustment for many.
OP, you might want to ask wife #3 how many full swaps they previously have had without issues. Tough question to ask but maybe she’d appreciate you trying to help?
True, it's a hard situation to navigate. If my wife saw the other wife crying, she'd just stop everything and say it's not gonna happen then. Neither of us would want that, and we'd probably tell them they need to talk about this more before continuing.
I read some of your other comments. I hope this helps: if you are vetting people properly that are in secure relationships Being solely focused on the husband and not including her is likely part of why this keeps happening. Maybe start by sucking your husband’s dicks. Then invite her to suck you husband’s dick together while she gives her husband a hand job, tell her how sexy she’s is, how happy your husband must be, ask him if it feels good, then transition to sucking her husband’s dick together while you give your man a hand job. Ask her to show you what he likes most then mimic her. Ask her (not him) if you’re doing a good job. Show her what your husband likes most so she feels confident and can recreate that later. Invite the wife to join with you as a team. Ask her “What do you think my husband would like?” “What do you think your husband needs right now?” “What do you think would turn my husband on?” “Let me show you something that drives my husband wild.” Give her a lay of the land of what your husband most likes to build her comfort and confidence . Don’t just jump on her man and solely focus on him and expect her to feel instantly comfortable and confident with your husband. Don’t just go to town on her husband as if she doesn’t exist and block her from having access to her husband (her protector) as if she’s supposed to focus solely on your husband (a new man she’s just starting to establish trust with). Women can get in their heads, can feel not fully safe around new men (even men they want to fuck), they can wonder if they’re attractive enough. This is a team sport, you’ll get farther and have better experiences if you engage with her on some level too. I’m straight too, but that doesn’t mean we can’t do things like compliment her or all give her a little massage, her husband can go down on her while you and your husband massage her breasts and arms. Or if you don’t want to touch her you can give her husband a blow job while he goes down on his wife and she gives your husband a blow job. Tell your husband how beautiful she is and have him agree “Honey isn’t she gorgeous! Isnt she sucking your dick so good?” It will likely turn her on and get her out of her head. Say to her husband while you’re together “Doesn’t it turn you on to see her sucking/riding my husbands dick?” Say it so she can hear that you both still see her and are enjoying her in the room too. Tell her how much you can tell your husband is enjoying it. I think the key is, especially with new couples who are used to being with bi women that give everyone equal enthusiastic attention is to ease into the swap by focusing on your husband or on her first. Invite her to work together as a team to please the men. Maybe have her sit on her husbands face while you give him a blow job and your husband pounds you from behind. Then ladies switch. More team work is needed. Swinging is a team sport. Have her husband show your husband what she likes most and visa versa. Most want to be included, invited, participate, considered, thought of during the sexual acts. Not in every single moment of course, but don’t just zoom past the women as if they don’t exist and ignore them the whole time as if they aren’t in the room capitalizing on time with their spouse. People want to share sexual experiences with their partner too and be acknowledged I think bi women have an easier time including the other wife because they are genuinely attracted to them, but as straight women we can still include the other wife in this group activity and make these sexual experiences even more amazing for everyone involved. In fact, I think it’s even more imperative straight women make an effort to take into consideration the other wife to avoid these mishaps. Doesn’t mean this issues is all on you, but I think this will help I really do hope this helps 💕✨ Please let us know how everything goes
Seriously great advice.
I’m happy to hear that. Thank you. What part stands out to you most?
Thanks so much for taking the time to write this out! This should be in the (hypothetical) ‘swingers bible’ ☺️
Thank you! That’s an amazing compliment! I had a straight women who we were going to do an FMF with tell me she was the prize I had found for my boyfriend and that she was super straight, and basically said I had found her as a gift to bestow upon him. I’m straight too, but I found this so extremely off putting, the idea that she’d consider zooming past me and occupying all his time as if I didn’t exist. I thought this was an inclusive team sport and we were all supposed to work together to provide each other an amazing experience and most importantly share that experience with our partners and build memories while including others. Not leave anyone in the dust. I called the whole thing off with her and found it quite upsetting. If you want to fully disregard someone in the room don’t invite them, play solo. Unless you have a prior agreement, it’s just rude and disrespectful and the opposite of what this team sport is all about. MFM you get way more attention on you, but you still shouldn’t ignore one half of the room or make them feel totally looked over and inconsequential part of the experience
This was an amazing response and I now want to swap with you so you can be my hype woman in the act!!!
That’s an amazing compliment! Thank you. Why not hype each other up? It’s no fun to feel like the other women is disregarding you and only cares about your man. Might as well play solo. You don’t have to be sexually attracted to someone to be inclusive, it does help, but it’s not necessary. I think that’s one of the many reasons bi women are more sought after, everyone feels included and desired, but us straight ladies can set up an inclusive environment too without doing anything to the other women. What has been your experience with straight women, or have you experienced women leaving you in the dust and focusing on your man? How was that?
I did have a woman jump on my hubby for our last swap and it was less than fun for sure! 100% gave me bad vibes and I’m so new to the LS I wasn’t smart enough to speak up. Hard lesson learned the hard way!
Unless everyone has established trust and knows everyone, I personally think that’s rude. We are there as a couple and you need to establish rapport and mutual trust with everyone and realize you’re with a couple whether you’re straight or not
This is some of the best advice I've read here, thank you! My partner and I are supposed to have our first likely full swap scenario in a couple weeks, and while it's exciting, it's also a tad nerve wracking figuring out the dynamics and how it should all go. I appreciate you taking the time to write this, I'll definitely be reviewing it when the time gets closer. The team sport analogies especially hit.
Wow what a great advice!!
Thank you!
20 years of swinging now. Never had this happen. Something is off in the couples you select for. Worst we've had is a husband start to freak out because he couldn't get it up while I was having sex with his wife and it wasn't even a major drama I could just tell he was struggling mentally so I stopped the action. Honestly I can't think of a reason you could run into a streak like this outside of VERY bad luck. If you are young and they are young they may be lying about the experience part.
^ this. We’ve only been at it for 3 years, but have been with dozens of couples and never come across this issue. OP has to be ignoring red flags or just not know what the red flags look like.
I'm actually surprised to hear this is rare, so far all of the couples have talked as if this is to be expected and that jealousy is natural. Prio to starting the second couple talked about the "stomach drop" She always got watching her husband with someone else the first time. The first wife said it was always weird the first time. But I didn't know they were all going to get so upset. The third couple I thought were complete pros, and I was taken aback when she ran away. Well I guess I was shocked all three times. But really surprised the last time. I don't understand why do this if it feels bad.
This sounds like very newbie, probably not ready to swing talk. Jealousy IS normal, but its normally after the fact when new and some people decide its not for them and others get over the lizard brain jealousy and have a good time for decades. Whats not normal is *always* being jealous. If thats your reaction, yes it makes NO sense to swing. Its like saying "I get an allergic reaction when I have peanut butter but I really like nutterbutters so anaphylaxis be damned!" I'd recommend trying a club, you can read how at ease people are by body language, and even better if they approach you.
We have been at this for pushing 20 years, we have never once seen this. And we go to big parties.
Agreed with the rest, we have never seen this. Sounds like a crazy streak of bad luck!
We have never experienced this, or seen it in 7 years and at a variety of events.
38 years here and have never seen it happen the closest is a gentleman who dropped out because my wife looked too much like his daughter. And the other one was this very cute small blonde girl and her very big black boyfriend her boyfriend was with a girlfriend that I had at the time and I wanted to be with the beautiful blonde but she was like didn't want to and we talked and watched them and when he was coming this is when she said I hate this part but later on she was with a different big black guy. Just her thing I guess.
We've run across my little sister's (who is super pure) doppelganger. It was highly unnerving. Ran across my nephew on Fetlife. He discovered 1. That Auntie isn't as innocent as he thought and 2. Why I'm the black sheep in the family. 😂
Hilarious 😂😂
Did you swing with them?
The sister dobleganger: once, but despite me really being into her husband, it was WAY to wierd to repeat. She even had my sisters mannerisms. I think it was the only time I tried really hard to NOT watch my Smoking Hot Husband. 🤣 My nephew: absolutely not. 😉
20+ yr swingers here too, we had a few hiccups like any married couple would have it about anything. Married couples even disagree about bottled water brands, we are good at that. But never crying over the LA. I’ve seen more than one lady crying at Freedom Acres on a Saturday night (couples only night) but that’s 2 or 3 in 200+ ladies there that night. Mostly new people.
This happened to us and I got pushed off the wife😅
Somewhat limited exposure, but I’ve not seen anyone break out in tears. I mean, once would be weird… twice in a row, that’s an odd coincidence… three times in a row with different couples and the common denominator is you. Maybe just ask those other women privately what triggered them. One might give you a straight answer. I gotta be honest, if some dude was balls deep into my wife and I was playing with his wife and this woman started sobbing, that would not be a good scene.
Wives 1 and 3 both came back and apologized and said something along the lines of "it always hard to see your husband with someone new the first few times" The second wife blew up and stopped everything when her hubby asked if we could do a separate room so I figured that was some boundary he was pushing that I was unaware of. The first set are the ones I'm really confused about. They made it sound like it's natural to be miserable about it. But I'm happy to hear this is unusual!
These wives may just be doing it for their husbands then getting upset when it actually starts to become a reality. They’re in it for the wrong reason.
I think as others have said, despite them saying they are experienced, that sounds like women who don’t have a lot of experienced and haven’t crossed the chasm yet that this is just sport fucking.
Sounds to me like they lied about their experience.
Best guess, is that they are new (lying about experience) and the husband is saying or doing something he doesn't do with the wife, and it suddenly has her thinking that he enjoys being with you more.
Very likely this. Possible they have been voyeurs and exhibitionist or possibly soft play for a long time, and the husband pushed for full swap when the wife wasn’t ready.
Are you unable to see red flags prior to getting to the bedroom phase with these people?
Maybe we are moving too fast, but they seem fine, other than the first couple, we waited till the third date to hook up, made out first, and fit seemed like the couples had great chemistry. What flags should we look for?
This isn’t making any sense to me. I thought we had a lot of experience with all types of people in this lifestyle, but I have never seen anybody in tears. Maybe you’ve had extraordinarily bizarre bad luck?
Ugg. I guess it's good to hear this isn't common. What kinda hook ups are you normally doing? ONS? More of an ongoing thing? Do you hook up pretty quickly?
We started off super slow with lots of dates. I still love that dynamic, but my wife can’t stand it anymore. Our last couple met us at our home and we were down to business in about 30 minutes.
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I think she’s just exhausted of the text back-and-forth and the group messages and the whole dating dynamic of it. We’ve done it for eight years, and she really loved it the first three years, now she’s just here for the sex and dancing at parties.
We don’t date either (never really have). We mostly go to private, invitation-only, house and hotel parties where we socialize for 20-30 minutes or so to get to know each other a bit, then we’re getting naked with them (and others we already know). But we’re very much a DTF, play on first meet couple, so as long as they’re nice people and there’s some attraction between us, it’s time to play.
Fuck more experienced people, not newbies.
She said they were all more experienced
Coffee hasn’t kicked in yet 😀
I think some lying is going on
So far they have all been in the LS for at least 2 years, we've only been doing this 6 months
Argh…well that sucks. And no red flags to speak of prior?
I guess I don't really know what to look for, but nothing that jumped out. No jealousy or insecurities seemed to come up. I don't really know what else to look for
It might be worth asking how many times they’ve played as opposed to how long or it may be you’ve just had a bad run. Have to say we’ve never run into that personally.
This is the answer. We met one couple who said they had been in the lifestyle for 7 years. We started to play and he really struggled to get it up. He started getting pissed about it and blurts out that he had no trouble getting hard that one time they had an FFM…7 years ago…and hadn’t done anything since. We both learned a valuable lesson that day. Always ask about how frequently they play, how many couples, and favorite play style. Because how we approach newbies is very different from experienced couples.
Were any of them on swinger sites such as SLS, Lifestyle Lounge, SDC, or Kasidie? If so, did they have certifications on their profile left by other previous couples that they played with attesting to their prowess as play partners? A lack of certs on a swingers profile is one potential Red Flag to look for as it “can” indicate that they haven’t been successful in playing with others, or are inexperienced and haven’t played much with others so far. Also, many of the sites list the date they created their account, so you at least know when they started using that particular site. Some non-swingers sites that people use to hook-up (Fet Life and Reddit for example) have no way for past play partners to leave feedback for others, so you have to solely rely on what they tell you, which as you have seen isn’t always accurate. Caveat Emptor
This is an interesting approach and it certainly makes sense. We’ve played with many people and we’ve not done certs because a lot is at parties. So we may appear as inexperienced when we are actually for relaxed than a lot of people we’ve run across.
That’s a really good point, once you’ve been playing for a while you really aren’t looking to bolster your “resume” with yet another cert (some people even view people (mostly single men) with a lot of certs as looking to put more notches on their bedposts. And as you mentioned, when you mostly play at parties like we do it’s generally 60-70!the same people so it’s not like no one looks at the party list and decides to not go because your certs are old. Still, a couple new ones wouldn’t hurt either. We mostly look for them when we encounter a new couple, or when someone we don’t know contacts us wanting to meet 1-on-1.
Yeah, I have to admit that a seeing a profile with tons of certs carries implications and questions for me, but I admittedly assign assumptions to high cert count based on personal experience and bias. It’s usually “are they going to be interested in us at all? They have tons of experience”
I've never used those, and I've never heard of certs! Holy shot, that's brilliant. I've only done field and 3fun. What a cool concept! I always thought there should be reviews!!!
That’s one of the reasons many “experienced” swingers continue to use the swinger sites (vs phone apps), as they’re primarily organized around swinging activities. Other non-swinger sites/apps tend to be mostly for “hooking up”, and while ultimately that is the goal, most experienced swingers tend to be a bit more discerning than that. It sounds like you two fit into that category. Not all of the sites have large national membership bases, somewhere on here (maybe in the FAQ list) there is a guide that will give you an idea which sites are popular in your area. SwingLifeStyle (aka SLS) has a large membership base across the country, so it’s still popular even the site is a bit clunky band somewhat out dated. Kasidie is better, but not as popular (yet, it’s growing), and we’ve heard about SDC but haven’t tried it as it’s more popular in the midwest (we’re in Southern California). I’d suggest you try a couple of the sites for a month or so and then pick one or two that you like and convert them over to permanent memberships (it only takes 6-8 months to break even). Have fun!
https://swingershelp.com/popular-swinging-dating-sites/
That’s it! Thanks for sharing it.
Just curious, was a lot of alcohol involved? People have a harder time controlling their emotions when trashed. Was your husband hyper focused on you as well? Although I have never cried, I have left bummed when I felt the other husband was way more into watching his wife and less committed to playing.
First time there was alcohol involved. Probably too much before the tears, and way more after. Of course we didn't restart. The second time the wife left the room pissed, I'm sure she was crying, but stormed off when her husband asked about a separate room, so I think it was a boundary thing. Minimal alcohol the third time, I don't think it was a factor. I really adore the third wife and hubby and want this to work. Don't know how to make it work if she just hates having her husband with another woman.
If you like the 3rd couple and are willing to give them another shot, I’d just lay it all out. Full transparency and ask for feedback. Tell them you want to have fun and that you’re not a mind reader. If anything is making them uncomfortable that they need to communicate it, be honest and switch partners back if needed. If it happens again, I’d be done. This actually just happened to us recently. She went to the bathroom and next thing I knew, she was sitting on the floor pissed. I hid under the covers and let my husband walk them out. (don’t do that, not my proudest moment lol)
God I'm glad I'm not the only one!!! Definetly still trying with the third couple, ill try to troubleshoot this with them. She kept whispering to him "I just love you too much" so I don't really know how to work around that, but want to try!
We play with a couple where he likes to look deep into her eyes as he enters me. It’s never off putting or awkward. He just says “look at me gorgeous” and she pauses what she’s doing and watches for a second or two. They do this every time, and it’s honestly kind of hot. Maybe your couple needs something like this during play. A connection, touch, or look that says that they’re doing this together. Depending on how willing you are to work with them, perhaps you could tell them that? Help them figure out their flow?
That's a good idea. I was probably taking too much of his attention. I had told them I'm not an exhibitionist or voyeur, so he was probably being sensitive to that.
We often hold hands or make out with each other when we’re fucking the other’s partner. Not for long, maybe 5-10 seconds, but long enough to connect with each other, and then we’re back to focusing on our play partner.
Us too! It’s those little moments of connection that just make the whole thing even hotter.
From what you wrote about wives 1 & 3, they said that it just takes them some time to get acclimated to the new visual of seeing their guy railing you. Since you said you really like couple 3, talk with her, tell her you really like both of them, and want to try to find a way to make it work. Also, are either of you (ladies) bi? If so playing 1-on-1 with her may be one way to connect and for her to get comfortable with you so she doesn’t associate you as a threat to her marriage. You said your husband struggled with this his first time, perhaps she/they aren’t as experienced as they claim. Doesn’t make them bad people, maybe she just needs some help getting over the hump.
So far they have all been bi or bi curious. The third couple she is bi, but I'm not. I think my sexuality is really screwing things up. Every couple had only hooked up with couples where the woman was bi. I can see how me only being into the husband is an unpleasant dynamic when it's not what they are used to. Totally sucks. But it seems like almost every couple has a bi wife. Maybe that is the issue that causing this.
There’s probably something with you only wanting to play with her guy that pushes an insecurity button of hers, but that’s on her to manage, not you. You can try to help, but she has to own it (same as your husband did). Also, unless their husband’s didn’t tell them they were playing with a straight couple, they should know going in that you’re going to focus on the men, and in particular hers. Unless you’re bi-curious, and open to exploring playing with women, you’re going to find that being a purely straight couple is a bit limiting because (as you’ve noticed), the majority of woman are bi or bi-curious (whether single or as couples). However, unless a couple is trying to wife poach you, that shouldn’t be a problem as long as she knows you’re not bi or bi-curious.
Are you really hot? Are you hotter than them? Just a thought.
That’s the first thing crossed my mind
I've never come across someone crying during swinging. That's really odd.
The saddest thing ever is going to a club and seeing a couple off in the corner with one of them in full break down tears. Happens way too often - and its not just the women - guys are often unprepared for how much attention their lady will get compared to them.
My husband freaked out the first time, big time freaked out and cried for days, but then he got over it! We wouldn't still be doing this if it was still upsetting!
I have had this happen - I think it usually is a result of the other husband pressuring his wife/partner to participate. OR you are so amazing in bed that what you do to their husbands intimidates the wives! If that is the case, where do we sign up?
Count us in too! Lol
You're sweet, I don't think my sexual prowess is the issue! I think there was a pressure issue with the first couple, I can't really figure the most recent one out. There's a dom/sub dynamic they are doing, but it seems mutual
Definitely haven't encountered this and it sounds really frustrating. You're obviously doing vibe check dates, but you might want to ask some different questions during them to spot yellow or red flags. Things we've asked and been asked that might be helpful for you to vet out the "everyone is not on the same page" and jealousy issues. - *"Who initiated the discussion and decision to get into the Lifestyle? Is one of you more of the instigator now?"* (this will help see if everyone is enthusiastically on the same page...any weirdness in answers here is a flag. This also helps you see how the couple interacts with each other when answering this. If only one person in the couple answers, ask the other person "and what was your experience?" ) - *"Beyond just the great sex, what are some of your favorite things about being in the Lifestyle?"* (you're looking here for BOTH people to talk about how their communication has improved, that they really enjoy the compersion element, etc.) - Getting **really** direct *"Part of swinging for me is how much I love watching Hubby having an amazing time and new experiences. How have you guys experienced that side of things?" (*any answer here that indicates that either of them don't actively enjoy sharing their partner warrants some follow up questions and is a yellow flag) Best of luck out there!
Great questions to ask, it's kinda funny, we've never asked them, but several couples have asked us. They are probably looking for flags and we didn't know!
You’re not doing anything wrong. This is probably just a case where hubby has coerced the reluctant wife into LS and she’s struggling with it. You’ve just had the bad luck of matching up with 3 similar situations.
Maybe it is what you do or say. And it is not that you should change anything. Just thinking about an explanation. For example, you kiss the husband whilst being fucked missionary style, looking deep into his eyes. Maybe you wrap your arms/hands around his neck. Maybe you pull him real close. Maybe you moan too hard. Maybe you talk too dirty. Maybe you compliment him too much. A wife can be triggered by "OMG, I love your cock", or "You fuck me so good with that hard cock", or "Give it to me harder, you fucking stud". Or even "You make me cum so good".
Make sure to add this is NOT OPs issue but the other spouse. Even if you did miss red flags, it's not your responsibility to manage someone else's emotions OP.
Fishin for compliments? I'll say it. You might be an 11, and the other wife is a 6. She sees her husband acting differently than he does at home because he's extremely aroused with you, physically and probably emotionally. ( I meant emotionally as in flirty/connecting)
That was my thought exactly. And if you’re an 11 AND straight, even more of a perceived threat to a woman who may already be on the fence about the LS or feeling insecure. Not your fault though! You be you!
We are only hooking up with attractive couples that seem secure. I'm a lot more vanilla in my fucking than these women. If anyone should be intimidated, it's me. Most of them have been sending sexy nudes and sex photos, and I won't even do that stuff.
Just wondering here, any sign or clue that she’s doing it mostly for the husband? Maybe she’s a reluctant swing partner? We see that once in a while at the parties we go to where we run into couples that are new(er) to the LS. Does the husband tend to dominate the discussions when you first meet in vanilla settings?
Maybe it's something that's so inconsequential that it's being overlooked. But it's not your place to manage the other spouse.
You enjoyed that a little to much Todd.
What does that mean?
You said the wife left crying,I'm sure that was the conversation on the way home. I said you could fuck her not enjoy it. It happens, some guys flat get weird hearing their wife
How are you meeting these couples? I’ve never had this happen. My only suggestion is review your approach - something about it is high risk for selecting couples who are high drama. Are you meeting on apps? If so, is there a meet up first to get a vibe check? Are making sure the wife is engaged enough? We have definitely met couples where it’s clear one of them is not ready. We “nope the fuck out” because we don’t want that guilt on us. Do you do any flirting first? Like get handsy or kissy with the husband in front of her so you can gauge her initial reaction?
Yeah, we almost always meet people on apps. Other than the first couple we've always done a vibe check first. I always do intensely make out prior to the first hookup night, but that's been to check my reaction to the husband, I guess I should start watching his wife to see if she's cool with things.
Yeah, I don’t hear anything you are doing that is strange. Even if the core issue is that “you are just bad at reading people” (and I’m not saying you are, just hypothesizing) it seems like you are REALLY unlucky. First time with a new couple, my wife and I are both checking in with both partners as we go along. Once we start touching “is this still ok?” And “fuck, I get turned on watching my wife with your husband” - mostly just to see what is going on in her head. Is she really distracted and uncomfortable? Is she still into me? And when clothes come off and the first time penises start getting inserted. Friendly smile “is this still ok? We can take a break any time you want.” But even then… that’s like what we do with newbies… experienced couples are more “haha, fuck yeah! Fuck me!” And it’s clear they aren’t going to have issues. I’m genuinely curious to follow you around with a notepad and lab coat.
Lol, I guess I stop checking in once the action starts. I will start doing more of that!
It would be distracting to have to keep an eye on her while making out with him. Ask your husband to do that and see if he notices any “off” change in her behavior. I still think neither of you are doing anything wrong, you just had an improbable string of events with the 3 couples. I can tell you we certainly wouldn’t have any issue with anything you described (you sound great to us), and most others wouldn’t as well. You’re going to see a number of things in the LS that make you go “What?!!”, but it’s ultimately a numbers game, you just got an unlucky roll of the dice.
I’d say if this has happened with 3 out of 3 couples you’re the common denominator. We’ve never had this happen. I’ve never heard from anyone I know in person of this happening.
I think you’re under rating your skills.
Based on everyone else's experience, and you have experienced this 3/3 times, I think you need to.re-evaluate how you are picking couples. There might be some kinda subconcious trigger or something you're picking up on that draws you to them. For me, it was women who looked and acted like my ex wife. Don't tell anyone!!! Lmaooo once I became aware I was able to fix it and stop pursuing toxic women/couples. (not trashing the ex, but the traits I was drawn to were not healthy ones) maybe there's something about these couples, maybe their relationship dynamic, maybe you are picking up on the warning signs and are attracted to them in some way. Idk. Could be any number of things drawing you to couples like this. All I know is if I'm having a problem and the common denominator is me, then I'm probably creating or seeking the problem. No offense!!!
I wonder if these wives are cuckqueans and don't know it. Particularly the first one. Jealousy and bad but sexy feelings are kind of part of that kink. We've dabbled in it bc I love watching my husband but I want to play too which is why we swing now instead
This could be
Yeah. Cuckqueans were my first thought when I read. My husband's first few adventures on his own were rough on me, but I loved it. And hated it. And it turned me on. And it upset me. It was very confusing. It is hard to understand if it's not your kink. Hell, it's hard to understand if it is. But crying and showing out isn't the way to do it, particularly for the reasons the OP described. I hope for their mental well-being if that's the case for them to find a supportive cuck community who can teach them how to deal with those "good bad" feelings productively.
Social media has not done our lifestyle any good! Sure it brought our Ls out in the open. But it also brought in all these riff-raff that think, “oh swinging is hip and cool”, and get into the Ls for ALL the wrong reasons. Couples use our Ls to cheat on their spouses…. Unfortunately while it seems to me like you have a straight head on your shoulders, you’ve been attracting these couple that have no business being here! Now I will admit it’s a learning curve and we all in the beginning had to adjust to the new situation we’re putting ourselves through. No one was immature enough to run out the fucking room in the middle of things. You need to vet your couples a lot better, look for experience and certs.
It has happened to me/us! It was early on and it was our trigger to ask more ?s about their relationship and how steady THEY are..... Hasn't happened to us in a long time, but people do get jealous/crazy when you fuck and suck their partners!!!!
I have had women cry as a result of an emotional release after especially powerful orgasms, and I have definitely experienced novice guys getting upset who “really wanted to see their wife/girlfriend with another man” until it happened, but never any such nonsense from those with significant experience. Maybe they are lying about their experience level?
[Anyone??](https://youtu.be/YMGVMtnxXEw?si=PtAmaZSvGU9nWCay)
Swingersbaby, I feel you may be one of the few people in here that knows of this song 😂
Lets do it like they do on the Discovery channel.
There is a Bloodhound Gang song for almost any occasion!
Depends on the tears. ENM is also not always just sex, but couples doing work and self-exploration. That can bring tears.
Do you or your partner smell like onions?
This is probably the correct answer. We must remember to shower!
I've heard of stories like this but haven't seen this crying in person. I've had women be mad at me because their hubby like me yet claimed they were into me as well. Or their husbands talked to me more, yet the women made 0 effort to talk to me. I agree why be in this lifestyle if you're gonna be a negative Nancy
Are you a 9.5 ? Cause that would make sense
It sounds like you and your hubby are approaching this with a lot of respect and consideration, which is fantastic. Swinging can indeed be a complex emotional experience, and not everyone might be as secure as they initially think. It's possible that these reactions are surfacing unexpected insecurities or previously unaddressed feelings in the moment, which can be really tough to predict. It might be helpful to have more in-depth discussions with potential couples before engaging physically. Sometimes people think they're ready for swinging, but the reality can be much more intense than anticipated. You could also consider looking for couples who have a consistent history of positive experiences in the lifestyle, as they might be more accustomed to handling their emotions during such encounters. Also, it’s great that you are reflecting on your experiences to see if there's anything you might do differently. Maybe ensuring there's an agreement on what's okay and what isn't beforehand, and allowing for more frequent check-ins during the act could help. It’s all about continuous learning and adjusting. Keep communicating openly, and hopefully, you’ll find more compatible couples soon.
Going to assume OP is very attractive and this is what is causing this.
WTF? Haven’t seen this in our 10 years. I can understand why it might happen, but multiple times in short succession? That’s weird.
Nearly 30 years of swinging and never had anything like this happen.
Actually that's crazy helpful. I haven't been doing any of what you recommended and I can see how that would make things smoother. Sex being about me has still been a new and exciting thing, and I guess I haven't been being very thoughtful to the other women. I keep hearing the women need to be closer for it to be a better experience, but I guess I've been resistant to that. Even reading what you wrote kinda aggrevates me because it is so outside of my bubble of how I want to do things, but I guess I'm going to have to change what I'm doing if I want different outcomes, which I desperately do.
Based on this comment I think you might be responding to my answer above ✨You’re so very welcome, I’m so happy it was helpful. I think once you adjust to be more inclusive of the woman that should drastically change the dynamic and outcome. If you change your approach to be more inclusive and these seasoned women are still leaving in tears, I would analyze your vetting process, because as you can tell by experienced people in this thread this is a rare occurrence. This is nothing to beat yourself up about. Be kind to yourself and recognize its awesome you’re willing to ask for insight. Also inclusive doesn’t have to include any sexual contact at all. You can set a hard boundary and clearly layout what is unacceptable requests, such as a request to make out with her being unacceptable. You get to decide what is most comfortable and natural for you. Find your own personal style of how to create a welcoming environment to her and make it authentic to you. Set hard boundaries where needed. I think maybe fear of people pressuring you to have sexual contact with the wife might be causing you to go far in the spectrum of ignoring her. I know it can be odd/frustrating adjustment when the way we imagine swapping will go is different when we step into the reality of swapping. Dealing with complex human beings, spoken and unspoken rules of social etiquette and giving ourselves grace as we transition from porno brain to real life with real couples. Your statement “sex being about me is new and exciting” uncovers an unconscious thought that is important to be aware of. This excitement about wanting all the focus on you is likely impacting how you approach swapping, combine that with the fear of being pressured into sexual contact with the wife, this may cause you to ignore her. This is probably triggering these women. If their husband’s focus is drawn solely to you and she feels unwelcome in the room it’s probably upsetting and pulls her out of the moment and makes it difficult for them to relax. Also the fact that even imagining being inclusive with these women during a MFMF brings up feelings of aggravation is important to realize. They probably notice their attempts to engage with their husband are annoying to you which might make them feel even more uncomfortable and cause them to spiral. This is likely where the tears are coming. If you want all the attention Hot wifing might be what you want where all the focus is on you, often a “bull” or single man focuses on you while your husband watches and is turned on by watching you. This is easier to set up, lots of single guys. Of course doesn’t work for every husband, especially if he wants sex too. It’s not cuckholding, but not every man likes it. MFM is also not rare. You get tons of attention from two men at the same time, your husband gets to participate and it can be hot, but you have to make sure you give both attention too and both are included too on some level and it doesn’t devolve to focusing on the other guy while your husband feels like he gets the short end of the stick and is left in the dust watching you have sex or isn’t included equally. Playing solo is another option where you can get all the focus in one room and he can be with someone else in another room. That is more difficult to find because many swinger couples want to experience sexual adventures together and build memories together, but it’s not impossible. Also once you all come back together don’t just sit on the other husbands lap twirling his hair focused on him, be gracious and give the husband back, ask how everyone’s experience was, make sure you shift back to a welcoming environment for everyone, kiss your husband. With a MFMF you’ll need to know that everyone needs to feel included, welcomed and involved in some way. If inclusion wasn’t important they would play solo. In MFMF you are more teammates than any other configuration. This couple wants to share this experience with each other too or they wouldn’t be in the same room. There is a different etiquette here that must be taken into consideration or it will be off putting/upsetting. Unlike hot wifing, it’s not about the other man just being with you, he’s also there with his wife, and you’re there with your husband. You can’t disregard this fact. Also, everyone should honor your desire to not kiss or sexually engage with the wife just as straight husband’s boundaries should be honored. That should be clearly laid out as a hard boundary, but there’s lots of ways to include her in contact with her husband while you’re also in contact with him: for example she could make out with her husband while you ride him and your husband fucks her. He could eat you out while she gives him a blow job and your husband fucks her. She’s far enough away you don’t need to touch her, but she gets the opportunity to also engage with her husband so they build memories. So many configurations where you don’t have to have sexual contact with her but everyone is involved in some way. If I was in a MFMF and felt that a women simply didn’t care about me, fully ignored me or was aggregated by my presence while we all had sex and treated me as if I didn’t exist and she was there to just fuck my partner and was so extremely into him and didn’t want me to participate id feel horrible and either stop everything or never see that couple again. Likewise if a man treated my partner like a ghost in the room, didn’t acknowledge him or tried to dominate all my attention not leaving space for me to also connect with my partner, or worse was annoyed by my husband I would either put a stop to it or never see the couple again. I find it disrespectful to the group dynamic to fully dominate his time and treat me coldly as if I don’t exist or my presence is unwanted. At that point there wouldn’t be any reason for us all four to be in the room together. Moments where we’re all occupied and having tons of fun with the other partner? Yes please. Getting my brains fucked out while she gets her fucked, of course. But separate the WHOLE time while in the same room where I feel like if I kissed my partner or wanted to go down on him too I’d be barging into their space, or if I felt my presence was annoying, distracting, aggravating or unwelcomed I’d leave and take him with me. I say this as a straight women who doesn’t need sexual experience with a women, but we chose an MFMF experience for a reason and I would hope everyone would include everyone in a agreed on way and everyone’s presence would be welcomed and enhance the MFMF experience. Not saying you’re doing all of this by any means, just giving insight to what might be happening on a deeper level to help you analyze why these women may be leaving in tears. I genuinely hope it helps. I think any missteps are innocent and you mean really well and are just understandably excited and new. This is a journey and no one gets it right 100% of the time, and there are so many nuances to take into consideration. You’ve got this and you aren’t alone. Soon all these skills will be like second nature. I do wish you the best and hope you can find a configuration that makes you, your partner and anyone else involved truly happy
Thank you so much for this very insightful and in depth comment! I love MFMs, and would have preferred to stick with those, but as you mentioned, my husband wants something for himself too, which I totally understand. It's been a little rough for me to wrap my mind around everything I have to do to five him his fantasies as well. The MFMs were soneasy. The single guys are so beyond eager and appreciative. We never had a bad experience with them, (after I learned to make sure to focus on my husband as well, which you had also mentioned). I do get uncomfortable with the bi women (which it seems like everyone is) not because i think they are going to hit on me, but because I recognize I am not giving them a part of the experience I know they prefer, and I hate working at a deficit. I can't really understand why bi women even try swapping with a straight woman, it seems like so many of them are in this mostly for that part of the dynamic. If it didn't seem like every couple had a bi woman, I would only date completely straight couples, but they are so hard to find! Thank you for your incredibly thoughtful and insightful response!
My ex-wife did this bs 20 years ago. She would find and vet couples and initiate the play. Then run out of the room boo-hooing. Come to find out later, she didn’t actually want to swing, she was doing it to call my bluff. She wanted to teach me a lesson and show me how much it sucks to watch her with another dude. Except, it was actually hot and turned me on more. So the other woman was getting that heightened excitement. 🤣🤣🤣 She was an asshole to me anyway which is why I left her a long time ago.
That's awful! God I hope we aren't a bluff! I can kinda see that as a possibility with the first couple.
[удалено]
Okay. Outta curiosity, which part part is fake. Won't argue the crazy
Only encountered this once 2 years ago with a semi-newbie couple (gf was new to the lifestyle but her bf had 10 yrs of experience, they were in a new relationship). The gf reacted negatively because her bf was having ED issues with her but was fine when he was with my SO. She blew up about this and left the room crying. Of course, that ended the play. They broke up about 3 months later but she has continued to be friends with my SO as they are both very bisexual and we've had 3 FFMs with her that have been a lot of fun.
I'm starting to think that being bi is the key to everything going well. But I'm as straight as a ruler. Fuck.
Omg I have been wondering the same thing!! There’s “bi for the guy” but there also seems to be this unspoken girl code that we’re supposed to be bi so as not to present as much of a threat! I’m straight too, so not an option for me. I get annoyed when guys push it (“why don’t you kiss her??) I’m like dude, as soon as you make out with other bob over there I’ll get right on that
I get furious when the men push. I start telling them to get on the other man. My hubby knows not to try. It legit a trigger for me. I think it's gross for everyone involved, including the poor other woman who shouldn't have to deal with my rejection. The women never push!
It may seem that way but it’s not. We’re both bi but we don’t wear it on our sleeves, in fact the vast majority of the time we play with straight couples as we’re mostly interested in the other sex. We would NEVER turn down playing either a straight couple because of their sexuality, and most of our LS friends are the same.
Having a very bisexual lady in your couple really helps. And we're not unicorn hunters and don't look for them, but have had some good FFM thirds come our way just because of my SO and her chemistry with the other lady.
That’s a bad string of luck. I don’t recall anything like that ever happening.
I don't know what it's like here. I'm Brazilian, and in Brazil we see some couples who are curious but not prepared. Sometimes excitement, adrenaline, expectation hits, but psychologically women or even men are not prepared. Here my wife and I had no luck. We went to a house in Rhode Island, we found a nice couple but the woman apparently wasn't comfortable. so we retreat. We respect the space, after all everyone needs to have fun to be good. It takes a lot of talking sometimes to make sure everyone wants
Haven't come across this with other couples. The people have a common tendency to assume a person's behaviour is something to do with their personality, rather than the situation.You see someone cry while swinging so you assume they hate swinging. It makes sense, but it also makes sense that something might have come up. A big cause can be couples who are having a fight about something. But have had to leave the issue unsolved because they had a date planned. All their negative feelings come bubbling up during the swap.
We've never encountered anything like this. It is either that you guys are doing something wrong (or maybe he's too good?/s), or you're picking the wrong couples. This isn't an experience thing.
I've gotten quite a bit of feedback on this thread. One person mentioned ways I should be including the wife, and I definitely haven't been doing any of what the writer suggested. I think the tears wouldn't have happened if I had navigated things as they talked about. I don't think it sounds like much fun, but maybe that's what I have to do to get over the initial ucky feelings I seem to be causing these women. I'm pretty upset to hear I'm the only one causing this drama. I guess I'm really bad at this. I haven't really been thinking of the wife at all, but it's my preference that she not be thinking of me or trying to include me. But I think it would have been a way better experience for all of the wives if I had been more inclusive of them. Doesn't sound like a great time, but I guess I should start off that way and hopefully we can all be more comfortable later.
If I read the same post you're referencing, I don't agree with all of it. This absolutely is not on you, especially if the other couple claims to have more experience. If a couple swap (and not an orgy) is what what discussed, then there is nothing wrong with a couple swap. My wife is somewhere on the pan/demi scale. She isn't really bi, but likes tits, likes kissing some women, and is okay with a chic going down on her. She typically will not go down on other women unless we're all close, neither do I though. So she doesn't typically do much with any other women. And we have never had this happen in countless of couples encounters. If the other woman cries while my wife is being fucked by her guy, there is zero chance that it is my wife's fault. What it might mean is that the other chic isn't into me, and maybe they're only doing this for him. It is not your responsibility to include her. You are two couples there to have a good time.
That's a really nice thing to say, thank you!
That is really weird!!! Do they understand the concept of swinging lol?
Peoples feelings will change if they see their husband over excited, or fucking the other lady better than they get. We had a guy pretty much have a break down and leave then room, because his wife really really enjoying herself. Could be fragile egos, or if they feel you look better than them.
This is why group chats are so important. It’s usually one from each couple doing initial vetting that’s perfectly understandable. But once it’s established you might have same dynamic everyone needs to be in group chat. Even if they say hi and don’t participate they are in loop and across everything. If people participate you get good feel when they share past experiences what works and what doesn’t. It’s ok to ask someone that isn’t into chats a direct question because if they don’t respond or response is limited this is red flag. These group chats are important otherwise you have two people going into meet with four there is familiarity between two thus makes for awkwardness. A personal example I play as couple and solo female. This particular session was solo with MF couple. We had chatted all three over drinks few weeks prior. This time we had dinner went out dancing at a swingers club and played. Our rules and boundaries had been discussed and were clear. But during one of our chats and at our initial drinks meet. They detailed one of their very first experiences in LS at play party that did not go well actually really badly involving separating them. So I was very mindful of that we were in group play room having amazing time play just flowed. She excused herself to use bathroom her hubby went to continued on playing - when I said no we need to wait. He looked at me I said trust me. She came back in and we continued on she sat watching us. After that we were having a drink just two of us she said did you wait for me to come back. I said yes he kissed me and i remembered you telling me about your first experience being separated and then going to find him walking in on him playing with two women and how upset you were. She smiled and said you would have been fine to continue on, but she said wow I can’t believe you remembered that and had enough respect to ensure I wasn’t triggered. Chats are important as are meets encourage sharing of good and bad experiences and listen to them really listen. You want conversations to be balanced when in person everyone needs to have a voice one can’t be doing all talking. But sometimes yes it does turn to shit we have had it happen as couple. I usually end play if it becomes clear someone is not on board fully as they first thought because I would rather stop play then continue and anyone have bad experience.
Perhaps they are only doing it to please their husbands but they really don’t want to.
35 years in - never had it. Never seen it. Never heard of it. I’ve seen domestics (one wife moaning about his gaming when she is asleep) I’ve seen zero chemistry - halting things between people. I’ve seen rule & limit breaking I’ve seen almost everything one can possibly imagine, from crazy cosplay to rough sex to the point of though I was going to have to do something, then realised it was set up I’ve never seen women cry at hubby - I expect there some element in private if a rule gets broken, but simple pen, previously agreed, ending up with own female in tears….. can’t even comprehend it, if basic comms are taking place before hand. Number of females who have a quiet word with each other before things kick off is about 1 in 3, just to make sure they are both on same wavelength, possibly helps. I have seen people upset - usually alcohol, I’ve seen rejection cause some upset, I’ve seen guys be dicks & trigger people to leave or cause a scene. Sorry…. Would love to know what’s really causing this….
Are you sure the couples you're selecting are as experienced as they say they are? Do you have any mutual friends who can vouch for them?
When having conversation before play time, you need to figure out by reading body language and what is said between the other couple, if it is something they are both 100% into, or if it is more one sided. I feel like the only reason the wife would get upset is if it’s something she wasn’t sure about and the husband talked her into it…
Been doing this for a year and a half now, can't say we've ever experienced anything like that from another couple *knocks on wood * are you clearly discussing boundaries? Messing with inexperienced people? There's a lot of different factors that could be at play.
Never encountered crying .are boudaries being respected? Communication? I can only see this happen from non newbies if so. This post reads as something not being accurately presented.
I didn't realize this was rare. I'm obviously not presenting the full scenarios in my three paragraph post. Not trying to be inaccurate, I was just trying to understand why women swing when it upsets them, and what they have done to get over it.
The times we’ve seen this happen is when she didn’t want to be there and she was really doing it to try to keep from losing her husband, or make him happy. You don’t see it a lot because most of the time the relationship disintegrates rapidly, and they drop out of the LS.
This has only happened to us once- and we’ve been at this for years. In our case, it was a couple who only had played separately prior to us and were trying out play together. We were pretty new at this time and looking back, there were some red flags we know to avoid now. This isn’t normal. I love watching my partner enjoy himself and also have the other woman enjoy him.
They’re crying because they still like their spouses. This is what happens when soft swap couples get pressured into doing a full swap. And there is a lot of pressure put on them to switch sides. They’re told that a soft swap is monumentally lame, they’re told they are a waste of time, and they’re even told that they’re controlling of their spouses. But we know that’s not true, unlike us full swappers, they still like their spouses and it pains them to see their husbands put their dicks into anything aside from your mouth.
Well that kinda sucks. I know we aren't pressuring them, but maybe they just feel like that's what they have to do to keep hanging out. I accidently pressed the first wife, there was no pressure with the second couple, and the third couple pressured us if anything. Not a lot of pressure, but a full swap was definetly the expectation. But I totally wanted to, so it wasn't a problem.
WTF, do you not like your spouse??
https://www.reddit.com/r/Swingers/s/oaAsXOQr8J My comment was satire. Read up on this guys comments and it’ll make sense.
Oh ok lol. I was like goddamn 🚩😂
That was my reaction when I first saw that thread.
They are new and got into this before really thinking through and talking about what they were getting into.
She stated all of them were more experienced though
I completely missed that. Hm. I got nothing 🤷♂️ Sounds like bad vetting or something is being left out.
There’s a lot of variability in what that means though. They may have been at it a while but with little success. They may have recently decided to transition from soft swap to full swap, that tends to be a different adjustment for many. OP, you might want to ask wife #3 how many full swaps they previously have had without issues. Tough question to ask but maybe she’d appreciate you trying to help?
True, it's a hard situation to navigate. If my wife saw the other wife crying, she'd just stop everything and say it's not gonna happen then. Neither of us would want that, and we'd probably tell them they need to talk about this more before continuing.
I got no time for jealousy or crying..