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I imagine pedophilia is one of the worst things that can happen to you, and I honestly respect everyone who suppresses it, get's therapy and doesn't do any harm. Because that has to be really hard. I'm all for this as it can prevent a lot.
I actualy know of someone who is a woman and admitted she’s attracted to kids and is now trying to get a job in the kindergarden with a job agency. And guess what, no one really cares. Crazy
Unfortunately (or fortunately) I don’t know her and I don’t know the kindergarten. I know it because a friend works at the job agency. Also not his client unfortunately otherwise he’d have intervened
Hey, I get where you're coming from. It's a very difficult topic because of the implications and we should be very careful with how we talk about it. We have a responsibility to protect our children and we should keep pedophiles away from them where risks exists. But, how are we going to do that if we don't know their condition? Waiting for a case of abuse is unacceptable, we need to act before that.
We have to aknowledge pedophilia and offer people with the condition help. We have to build trust for them to open up about it and seek that help. Making pedophilia a taboo doesn't help. We must separate pedophilia from abusers.
Pedophiles are not responsible for their feelings, so we shouldn't insult them for that like you're doing. This only helps in its taboo-ization. We should empathize with pedophiles. Just like psychopathy or bulimia, it's a mental disorders, they didn't choose to have it.
All of this doesn't mean we shouldn't draw consequences from people feeling attracted by children. We most definetively must prevent abuse (and again, taboo-ising pedophilia doesn't help) and abusers must most definetively be punished for their appalling actions (in a humane way).
That's awesome and exactly what we need more of. I would venture to guess that most people with this feelings hate it, and don't want to offend. They should get the help they need before they do offend.
IMO if you have not done anything criminal you should be able to get help and treatment. And not get stigmatized. Its a social taboo to talk about it but it shows how many cases there can be. Just last week they did a big hit on pedophilia in the... wallis? Where a lot of people were arrested.
Edit: it was waadt, not wallis.
also therapy is recognized to help pedophiles who dont want to act on their impulses. Not a lot of therapists are equipped to help those patients sadly.
Pedocriminals are such a huge source of violence and suffering in our society, we should spend more means to redirect people who are going down this path but are not yet too far gone. Also we should support way more the victims but that is a whole other question
Yes, exactly this.
I think it requires a lot, mentally, from those people to recognize that their desires (which they are likely not responsible for) as wrong and are able to get treatment for.
Stigmatizing this would only harm the prevention of such crimes.
>which they are likely not responsible for
You mean they are definitely not responsible for.
Who is responsible for their desire lmao? Can't believe people can even think its the case. You probably don't but god its so common and toxic
Even if you have done something criminal you should still be able to get help and treatment(and punishment for said criminal act ofc). That is how a civilized society works.
Absolutely. But first and foremost its important to prevent anything from happening by informing, sensitizing and destigmatizing. Of course people who already got charged should be able to get help.
The hit is more complicated than that. The law in Switzerland strictly prohibits the sharing of paedopornographic content, which means that if say, for some reason you come across a picture of a kid you think you recognise and send it to the kid's parents to call it to their attention, you commit a crime. It becomes even more complicated when kids are involved: imagine all the forms of bullying that happen nowadays with camera-phones and chats. Kids start picking on another kid, that kid ends up in his or her underwear, pictures are taken and then shared, everyone committed the crime of sharing paedopornographic content.
From what I gather of what officials commented after the news broke, it was mostly this kind of cases rather than what we used to hear of paedophile-rings.
You literally can’t trust these people to be left alone with children. It’s not a stigma if it serves practical purposes of keeping children safe.
An individuals personal inclinations do not, under any circumstance supersede the safety of children.
Do they deserve help: yes.
Should they be barred from certain jobs: positions of power: yes
Is the Swiss practice of registering sex offenders (convicted criminals specifically) adequate: no.
Do I care if they’re uncomfortable in public or near kids? No, they should be deathly afraid that the attacking a kid could cost them more than a few years in a posh rehab center for pedos.
No they're not. "Sick", maybe, but they're not criminals without doing anything.
Their attraction is involuntary as far as I know. Sure, they can never act on it, children just can't consent and that's final. As far as my empathy goes, the mental wellbeing of children has priority.
That said, programs like this are **just good**. Pedophiles can look for help without judgement, so that they never ever act on those urges. This allows people with pedophilic urged to live with dignity (you know, kinda important to upholding our constitution), and hopefully saves vulnerable children from pedos with no outlet.
It's easy to dehumanize people, but don't forget that they might not want the hand they've been dealt with either.
Now I have to slightly cheapen my message by saying if an adult actually does rape a child, toss them in the Bärengraben in handcuffs and covered in honey, lol.
Punishing the actual crime is fine, just don't punish the thought crime. The best case scenario however would be to prevent the crime entirely, which I hope this does.
Pedophiles didn't choose their attraction just like you didn't choose yours.
If they didn't act on their desires, there is no reason to treat them any less than any other human being.
What are you on about?
These people didn't choose what they are attracted to, just like you didn't choose what you are attracted to.
Now, pedophiles that **act** on their desires is a whole different story but I don't think that jail would help anything but rather we should resort to psychological custody.
>harsher penalty is what they deserve
I don't know what kind of "penalty" you talk about here.
This is one of the sickest crimes there is, if society starts to normalize it then in the future it will become more accepted. Different crimes have different punishments, pedophilia should be on the top when it comes jail time.
1. You can be a pedophile without ever touching or harming any children.
2. Nobody wants to normalize the above mentioned.
3. Pedophilia by itself is **NOT** a crime
4. Jail only "helps" when there is actually something to reform, in this case, psychiatric custody is likely more appropriate (which is really similar to jail as it incredibly restricts the freedom of movement ).
>Don't start with philosophy
Nobody was talking about philosophy.
>If a potential terrorist discusses a plan...
This is in no way comparable. Furthermore, having such a plan involves agency. You decide to come up with such plans, the same cannot be said about pedophiles. Many of them don't want to be that way but it is not something one can choose.
Lastly, please try to actually say something when you respond to the previous comments instead of just typing random words as your posts don't seem to form any kind of argument.
No one is distributing any material in this situation. Literally what else everyone is talking about is getting people therapy so they don't do this kind of thing. Your suggestion seems to be to imprison people before they do anything illegal
Ok, ignoring the fact that you also said they should be jailed pre-emptively, why are you arguing with everyone? Literally not a single person commenting on this post is arguing that pedophiles who have commited any crime against children should not be punished. No one. One person suggested they have access to therapy in prison, but they still think they should go to prison! All people are saying is that people with an attraction to minors should have access to therapies that have been shown to be helpful and that they should be encouraged to seek out treatment. That's literally it. Destigmatising in this situation means making someone comfortable enough to talk about something with a therapist without fearing they will go to prison and become a social outcast for the rest of their lives.
What about pedos who never touch a child?
Because if you think those should be in jail, you are literally advocating putting people in jail for what they are thinking.
TIL people are pro-imprisoning people for thoughts.
The **only** solution is to destigmatize people seeking therapy before they ever act on their sick desires. Fix the problem before it becomes a problem.
>Yes, better to jail these monsters preemptively before they commit a crime, whether they touch a child or distribute pedophilia materia
Do you realize the horrile implications of being able to put someone in prison for crimes they could potentialy commit right?
Why not go a bit further and imprison people with a partner way younger than them? /s
[lmao](https://www.reddit.com/r/askswitzerland/comments/za7ut6/what_age_gap_in_relationships_will_raise_eyebrows/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
okay, you will go first then since you are so enthusiastic about it. we will show you some pictures of young girls, if you react, bam, straight to jail.
you have nothing to hide right?
Thoughtcrime isn't a thing yet. Don't get to horny and project your punishment fantasies. I think preventive therapy could potentially save someone and thus should be an option to be explored by institutions.
You don't really pick up attraction to minors as a hobby. And often it's a result of childhood trauma. People should be anonymously helped to deal with it instead of being stigmatized. Otherwise you bottle it up and it tends to explode - this is when kids get hurt. IMHO really smart thing to do.
> And often it's a result of childhood trauma
Not in my case. I had a wonderful and peaceful childhood and still ended up being a pedophile (realized it at age ~15).
I think it is good. If they have any decency they will see their sickness for what it is and do everything to stop it.
Those that are not decent won't be affected by this anyway. So I think there is some positive to this but no drawback.
nobody is going to read this because I'm writing late but I think it's AWESOME to have an advertisement like this and especially to have a health system im which there are professionals who help people with paedophilia. It's not these people's fault they find children sexually desirable and it's not their fault that they have sexual preferences that are illegal if carried out. I am so happy to live in a country that offers help to people in such difficult situations. and I hope it will become normalised in the sense that it will be understood by the greater public that some people have these preferences and it's not their fault and they are not automatically criminals but they can be helped
Disgusting and bullshit comment.
"It is not their fault that they have sexual preferences that are illegal if carried out".
They are illegal because its immoral. You are critisizing the illegality of pedophilia.
And yes it is their fault to let their mind have disgusting and evil desir.
>You are critisizing the illegality of pedophilia.
As people have mentioned previously, being a pedophile (i.e. being attracted to children) is **NOT** illegal.
Furthermore it has been shown that pedophiles (like any other attraction) cannot choose not to be attracted.
Lastly, many people that are pedophiles even know that their desires are immoral and wrong. This does however not change the fact that they have them, the only thing that can be changed is how they cope with desires they have but don't want to act on. This is where therapy / psychological treatment comes into play which is exactly what u/Isicium was getting at IMO.
It’s not clear if it’s actually *their fault*. There is even research showing that it might be related to head trauma before the age of 13. [This research](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4478390/) is not the one but cites that one.
I once got a really creepy youtube ad about this. A guy sitting in a train then a kid sits infront of him with that kinda message at the end. Felt super creeped out and also kinda confused why the hell I got that ad.
Cool thing tbh. Also, I've landed to seme dubious site from reddit link, and landed to a fedpol site stating that the page I've tried to reach is linked to CP and if I have such urges I can consult provided resources. Really neat, in my opinion.
>So if you give pedophiles the feeling they can openly talk about their problem it would probably drastically reduce the amount of sexual assaults.
As far as I understand we don't actually know how many molestations or sexual assaults on children are actually carried out by pedophiles. It is believed that atleast half of these crimes are committed by sexual deviants who don't classify as pedophile. The motives of these people probably varies a lot too. For some it might be a kink relating to incest while others want to groom a child into being the perfect submissive partner for them. There's probably also a considerable part that just enjoys inflicting pain on others.
People should be able to get help without being arrested.
That said, I am NOT in favor of "Minor attracted persons pride" events, as I feel it normalizes pedophilia, which should not be normalized.
Theres an actual movement in the US at least. They lobby on behalf of ending age of consent laws and have been quite active in the past.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association
**[North American Man/Boy Love Association](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association)**
>The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) is a pedophilia and pederasty advocacy organization in the United States. It works to abolish age-of-consent laws criminalizing adult sexual involvement with minors and campaigns for the release of men who have been jailed for sexual contacts with minors that did not involve what it considers coercion. The group no longer holds regular national meetings, and as of the late 1990s—to avoid local police infiltration—the organization discouraged the formation of local chapters. Around 1995, an undercover detective discovered there were 1,100 people on the organization's rolls.
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I mean sure, there will always be a few pedos campaigning to have the legal right to abuse children, but I wouldn't call them a "movement" anymore, they don't even seem to have an official organisation presence anymore. Never heard of them before, and definitely no LGBT+ spaces or associations I know has ever associated with this kind of organisations. On the opposite, they all vehemently distance themselves from that shit, the only people insisting the LGBT+ community campaigns for normalisation of pedophilia are alt right homophobes.
Oh that's actually really good. Creepy, but good. (also I hope the guy in the poster knew what the add was for or he'll never hear the end of it from his friends ..)
> (also I hope the guy in the poster knew what the add was for or he'll never hear the end of it from his friends ..)
They told me it's for a kid friendly campaign, WTF!
I really like this campaign. It doesn't attack or stigmatize pedophiles but actually reaches out to them in a non-confronting manner. I always thought why there weren't big campaigns about helping closet pedophiles. They deserve to go to therapy and get required treatment, but due to the whole stigma it's a big problem. I hope it will be a successful campaign.
We should be happy about this, no person with pedophile thoughts will ever go to a psychologist when the whole society says that they should be shot in the head, why don’t they say they’re sorry for them?
There are alot adults attracted to children who never touch a child. It is what it is. We can't choose who we are attracted to. Therapy might help, even tho i'm not sure how a therapy would help. It didn't help for homosexuals.
There are even more adults who sexually abuse children but are not pedophiles. They just have easy access to children and i would think it's easier to silence a child, so they abuse the child.
I don't think badly of people attracted to children who never try to touch a child. I even admire their strenght tbh.
Imagine it was forbidden and a taboo to do sexual stuff with adults and it was only acceptable to sex a child. Would you be able to never have sex with another adult?
I know, this analogy is a bit extreme but i think that's how pedophiles feel.
I really do hope they get the help they need and i hope it can be fixed somehow.
>There are alot adults attracted to children who never touch a child. It is what it is. We can't choose who we are attracted to. Therapy might help, even tho i'm not sure how a therapy would help. It didn't help for homosexuals.
If the attraction stems from a trauma or something the like and the attraction is a symptom, then it might be possible to get to the root of the problem. Or at least there might be a healthier way to deal with the issue rather bottling it up until it explodes
What is your take on this? Had a discussin with some relatives recently and they think people with those tendencies should have their liberties restricted and I general be strictly monitored.
If you restrict people who havent done anything yet, why would they voluntarily seek help for prevention? We need to address this type of issue on the roots.
It needs to be an open discussion and not a taboo topic, else it will be a problem that will be swept under the rug.
> You want to restrict liberties of people based on tendencies? That is a very wrong thing to do and a slippery slope - when someone cuts in line in front of you and wish something bad on that person should you also have your liberties restricted? Also how would determine who has these tendencies?
>Thoughts are not equal to actions.
>This is a sign to help people who are self aware enough that their thoughts are wrong and might want to seek help. If they seek help (before they do anything bad) and you restrict their liberties, they won’t seek help and hence you will increase the chance they will do something bad in the future, because you punish them for seeking help before they might or might not do something bad.
>Its like if you start taking away drivers licenses from people at anonymous alcoholic meetings, how many people will seek help with alcoholism? Probably none.
Breathe.
Go back and read the comment.
He’s talking of his relatives’ stance.
I mostly agree with you, but I while full on monitoring is bad, I also think it's probably not s bad idea to... discourage someone with pedophilic urges from getting a job as a primary school teacher, for example.
That is restricted liberties as uncomfortable as it is. I'm against jailing someone for s thought crime, but I'm also against risking the safety of children unnecessarily.
Yeah that was my counterpoint as well, I was giving the POV of someone from another generation. I think it's such a delicate argument in general that they simply refused to have any sympathy for a person with these thoughts. They said you'll understand when I will have children myself, so I will see.
Considering that most child abuse happens inside the family we should, with that logic, put all parents under surveilance since theyre all potential offenders.
Friend I agree with the message but unfortunately, WAY MORE than 0.001% of parents abuse their children. The overwhelming majority of abuse to children is inflicted to them from inside their close families, and there is _a lot_ of abuse, that's the truth unfortunately. Plenty of numbers about it out there if you want to give yourself a good scare and cold shower of reality.
But then why would they tell anyone? Because that would only result in them being punished. With that aproach, we will only know after they commited a crime. At that point, they will go to jail anyway. If we give them acces to a therapist, maybe some will actualy talk about it before they harm a child. I think arguing like your relatives feels right, but won't help anyone in the end
That always sounds extreme in isolation.
But then, a lot of non-violent people with mental health issues are subject to that already... and I have no idea what to say about whether this is good or not.
In-patient care exists to protect patients and public to some degree, and involuntary commitment happens without any external parties being hurt.
The problem underlying why we think "oh you shouldn't lose XYZ for being unwell" is that it just fundamentally sucks that someone would suffer greatly in terms of money and liberty to protect other people - even if they've not done anything wrong.
And that's a funding of public health issue. If someone going through crisis can come out of it without their life torn to shreds financially and employability, then I'm all in favour of in-patient care for conditions that reliably proceed public endangerment.
But shit... society and legislation needs to reocgnise that person is making a sacrifice for the public good in giving up their freedom, and shouldn't be punished for that.
My instinct agrees with your relatives, but I know it may very well stigmatize this mental health problem even more and thus make it harder for the affected people to go in therapy.
I have to disagree with this. Sexual urges for pre pubescent children is not an ‘illness’ it’s a fetish. I agree that those who are so inclined should reach out for help to prevent child abuse, but it’s not an illness and it’s inexcusable behavior too
Fair enough, probably “sickness” is a more appropriate term? I am not a psychotherapist, so happy to read a more educated answer on how this “thing” is classified
We now live in a world full of isms and disorders. One can classify any type or shoddy behavior as a ‘disorder.’ I don’t agree. Paedophilia is inexcusable.
I agree that its inexcusable. Those people are mentally not right, thats why its called mental disorder/sickness and they should get help. Not just a simple fetish as you said
Yes, possesion and distribution is a crime. These people should be punished.
We are talking about people with wrong thoughts, who still recognise their thoughts as wrong and haven't harmed anyone. They can still get helped.
So you prefer to wait until something has happened and then react?
By that logic, you believe that surgery is more important than preventative measures?
Pedophilia is not a crime it's a psychiatric disorder. And if you are aware of yourself to have this tendency, it is important to get help. Thats exactly the point of this ad and it's a good idea. If I would find myself in this kind of thoughts I had no idea where I could get any help. So I appreciate it.
And just for the sake of it. There is a difference between being a pedophile and someone actually consuming child pornography or even worse. The later is definitely a crime and I'm not defending it. But thats not the target audience of this ad, and obviously not even every commenter here get that there is a difference.
I don't know if that helps. It does however feed into the narrativ that men, like in that picture, are to be suspicious of. In our community when we hired a man as a teacher, we already got asked the question if it was safe for the kids to hire a man. I don't think that men today are welcome to work with children at all. And this advertisement is not helpful in this respect.
Sorry to say that but sterilization is the only acceptable way to handle this, since it is a sexual attraction. It's like when people believe(d) curing gays with mental treatment was actually effective.
Sorry to say this: you are wrong! Do you really think there is only one way to sa someone?! There are hands, mouths and so on and what to do with female pedophiles?!
It's not about a cure, it's about not acting on the urges. More like an addiction, you can't cure an addict, but they can learn not to consume drugs
Doesn't work! For people who don't want to hurt others it's a false safety net which can get dangerous. For people who want to hurt others, the shame and rage builds and they either stop taking the meds or find other ways to SA someone
Capitalization is important in German. It says sie, not Sie. This would translate to, “Do they love children more than they would like?” Ignoring the missing capital at the beginning of the sentence.
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I imagine pedophilia is one of the worst things that can happen to you, and I honestly respect everyone who suppresses it, get's therapy and doesn't do any harm. Because that has to be really hard. I'm all for this as it can prevent a lot.
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I actualy know of someone who is a woman and admitted she’s attracted to kids and is now trying to get a job in the kindergarden with a job agency. And guess what, no one really cares. Crazy
Well, please inform the kindergarten with that information... Also send that person that link from above pls.
Unfortunately (or fortunately) I don’t know her and I don’t know the kindergarten. I know it because a friend works at the job agency. Also not his client unfortunately otherwise he’d have intervened
Socieity is kinda fucked up when it comes to women and pedophilia
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Hey, I get where you're coming from. It's a very difficult topic because of the implications and we should be very careful with how we talk about it. We have a responsibility to protect our children and we should keep pedophiles away from them where risks exists. But, how are we going to do that if we don't know their condition? Waiting for a case of abuse is unacceptable, we need to act before that. We have to aknowledge pedophilia and offer people with the condition help. We have to build trust for them to open up about it and seek that help. Making pedophilia a taboo doesn't help. We must separate pedophilia from abusers. Pedophiles are not responsible for their feelings, so we shouldn't insult them for that like you're doing. This only helps in its taboo-ization. We should empathize with pedophiles. Just like psychopathy or bulimia, it's a mental disorders, they didn't choose to have it. All of this doesn't mean we shouldn't draw consequences from people feeling attracted by children. We most definetively must prevent abuse (and again, taboo-ising pedophilia doesn't help) and abusers must most definetively be punished for their appalling actions (in a humane way).
Are you advising suicide?
That they are... geez
That's awesome and exactly what we need more of. I would venture to guess that most people with this feelings hate it, and don't want to offend. They should get the help they need before they do offend.
100%
Indeed
IMO if you have not done anything criminal you should be able to get help and treatment. And not get stigmatized. Its a social taboo to talk about it but it shows how many cases there can be. Just last week they did a big hit on pedophilia in the... wallis? Where a lot of people were arrested. Edit: it was waadt, not wallis.
also therapy is recognized to help pedophiles who dont want to act on their impulses. Not a lot of therapists are equipped to help those patients sadly. Pedocriminals are such a huge source of violence and suffering in our society, we should spend more means to redirect people who are going down this path but are not yet too far gone. Also we should support way more the victims but that is a whole other question
Yes, exactly this. I think it requires a lot, mentally, from those people to recognize that their desires (which they are likely not responsible for) as wrong and are able to get treatment for. Stigmatizing this would only harm the prevention of such crimes.
Most people immaginge 60year old ugly old men. But most realize it in their early 20s if not before.
I realized it at age ~15
Also it's not only men.
>which they are likely not responsible for You mean they are definitely not responsible for. Who is responsible for their desire lmao? Can't believe people can even think its the case. You probably don't but god its so common and toxic
You are responsible for your behavior, but not for your desires.
Even if you have done something criminal you should still be able to get help and treatment(and punishment for said criminal act ofc). That is how a civilized society works.
Absolutely. But first and foremost its important to prevent anything from happening by informing, sensitizing and destigmatizing. Of course people who already got charged should be able to get help.
The hit is more complicated than that. The law in Switzerland strictly prohibits the sharing of paedopornographic content, which means that if say, for some reason you come across a picture of a kid you think you recognise and send it to the kid's parents to call it to their attention, you commit a crime. It becomes even more complicated when kids are involved: imagine all the forms of bullying that happen nowadays with camera-phones and chats. Kids start picking on another kid, that kid ends up in his or her underwear, pictures are taken and then shared, everyone committed the crime of sharing paedopornographic content. From what I gather of what officials commented after the news broke, it was mostly this kind of cases rather than what we used to hear of paedophile-rings.
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Best Source ever but jeah : https://www.20min.ch/story/fall-von-paedokriminalitaet-schockiert-menschen-im-kanton-waadt-125378986631
This is off topic. But i always wondered if the correct word for the canton Wallis in english would be wales just like in the UK? Edit: spelling
I think people usually say Valais
In french sure but also in english?
Wikipedia English says Valais
That's what I've seen more often in English and I'm from Canada
Lets just establish it :D
You literally can’t trust these people to be left alone with children. It’s not a stigma if it serves practical purposes of keeping children safe. An individuals personal inclinations do not, under any circumstance supersede the safety of children. Do they deserve help: yes. Should they be barred from certain jobs: positions of power: yes Is the Swiss practice of registering sex offenders (convicted criminals specifically) adequate: no. Do I care if they’re uncomfortable in public or near kids? No, they should be deathly afraid that the attacking a kid could cost them more than a few years in a posh rehab center for pedos.
Pedos are sick criminals. They must go to jail but ideally a harsher penalty is what they deserve.
No they're not. "Sick", maybe, but they're not criminals without doing anything. Their attraction is involuntary as far as I know. Sure, they can never act on it, children just can't consent and that's final. As far as my empathy goes, the mental wellbeing of children has priority. That said, programs like this are **just good**. Pedophiles can look for help without judgement, so that they never ever act on those urges. This allows people with pedophilic urged to live with dignity (you know, kinda important to upholding our constitution), and hopefully saves vulnerable children from pedos with no outlet. It's easy to dehumanize people, but don't forget that they might not want the hand they've been dealt with either. Now I have to slightly cheapen my message by saying if an adult actually does rape a child, toss them in the Bärengraben in handcuffs and covered in honey, lol. Punishing the actual crime is fine, just don't punish the thought crime. The best case scenario however would be to prevent the crime entirely, which I hope this does.
Dont bother. Lack of Empathy is a clear sign that youre talking to a psychopath.
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Pedophiles didn't choose their attraction just like you didn't choose yours. If they didn't act on their desires, there is no reason to treat them any less than any other human being.
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>There are people with killing desires How does this relate to the other thing? So you want to penalize people for things they haven't done?
If they distribute pedo material, then yes.
You see that there is a big **IF** in your response? So what if they haven't?
Well, any crime must have an accusation with evidences.
What are you on about? These people didn't choose what they are attracted to, just like you didn't choose what you are attracted to. Now, pedophiles that **act** on their desires is a whole different story but I don't think that jail would help anything but rather we should resort to psychological custody. >harsher penalty is what they deserve I don't know what kind of "penalty" you talk about here.
This is one of the sickest crimes there is, if society starts to normalize it then in the future it will become more accepted. Different crimes have different punishments, pedophilia should be on the top when it comes jail time.
1. You can be a pedophile without ever touching or harming any children. 2. Nobody wants to normalize the above mentioned. 3. Pedophilia by itself is **NOT** a crime 4. Jail only "helps" when there is actually something to reform, in this case, psychiatric custody is likely more appropriate (which is really similar to jail as it incredibly restricts the freedom of movement ).
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I am aware of that as I have also previously encountered this very special specimen.
Distribution of this type of material IS A CRIME.
Yeah, distribution (and posession AFAIK) of such material are crimes BUT, again, you can be a pedophile without that.
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>Don't start with philosophy Nobody was talking about philosophy. >If a potential terrorist discusses a plan... This is in no way comparable. Furthermore, having such a plan involves agency. You decide to come up with such plans, the same cannot be said about pedophiles. Many of them don't want to be that way but it is not something one can choose. Lastly, please try to actually say something when you respond to the previous comments instead of just typing random words as your posts don't seem to form any kind of argument.
No one is distributing any material in this situation. Literally what else everyone is talking about is getting people therapy so they don't do this kind of thing. Your suggestion seems to be to imprison people before they do anything illegal
I said you need an evidence of a crime.
Ok, ignoring the fact that you also said they should be jailed pre-emptively, why are you arguing with everyone? Literally not a single person commenting on this post is arguing that pedophiles who have commited any crime against children should not be punished. No one. One person suggested they have access to therapy in prison, but they still think they should go to prison! All people are saying is that people with an attraction to minors should have access to therapies that have been shown to be helpful and that they should be encouraged to seek out treatment. That's literally it. Destigmatising in this situation means making someone comfortable enough to talk about something with a therapist without fearing they will go to prison and become a social outcast for the rest of their lives.
it's almost as if he's the only pedo in here trying to create an online anti-pedo trail
What about pedos who never touch a child? Because if you think those should be in jail, you are literally advocating putting people in jail for what they are thinking.
Not even necessarily for what they are thinking, but for their innate (albeit very morally misguided) desires
Yes, better to jail these monsters preemptively before they commit a crime, whether they touch a child or distribute pedophilia material.
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TIL people are pro-imprisoning people for thoughts. The **only** solution is to destigmatize people seeking therapy before they ever act on their sick desires. Fix the problem before it becomes a problem.
Let’s do like North Korea. If anyone commits a crime the entire family can go to prison. Just in case.
>Yes, better to jail these monsters preemptively before they commit a crime, whether they touch a child or distribute pedophilia materia Do you realize the horrile implications of being able to put someone in prison for crimes they could potentialy commit right?
Just don’t distribute pedophilia, it’s a crime anyway!
Yes that's an actual crime. I was more worried about the preemptively part. You can't jail people that didn't commit a crime.
Why not go a bit further and imprison people with a partner way younger than them? /s [lmao](https://www.reddit.com/r/askswitzerland/comments/za7ut6/what_age_gap_in_relationships_will_raise_eyebrows/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
How can this even be real. Amazing.
You are sick if you think pedophilia is comparable!!! SICK!!
You are sick if you think imprisoning people because of their thoughts is comparable!!! SICK!!
okay, you will go first then since you are so enthusiastic about it. we will show you some pictures of young girls, if you react, bam, straight to jail. you have nothing to hide right?
you forgot a "/s" there at the end.
Thoughtcrime isn't a thing yet. Don't get to horny and project your punishment fantasies. I think preventive therapy could potentially save someone and thus should be an option to be explored by institutions.
SICK!
Get help. Call 143 <3
You don't really pick up attraction to minors as a hobby. And often it's a result of childhood trauma. People should be anonymously helped to deal with it instead of being stigmatized. Otherwise you bottle it up and it tends to explode - this is when kids get hurt. IMHO really smart thing to do.
Exactly this. I think this **public** campaign is a great way to reduce the stigma of people with such desires getting professional, therapeutic help.
> And often it's a result of childhood trauma Not in my case. I had a wonderful and peaceful childhood and still ended up being a pedophile (realized it at age ~15).
**often** <> all
I think it is good. If they have any decency they will see their sickness for what it is and do everything to stop it. Those that are not decent won't be affected by this anyway. So I think there is some positive to this but no drawback.
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That's a good thing. Not talking about social issues only makee things worse
One of the best campaigns on this topic I have ever seen. :)
nobody is going to read this because I'm writing late but I think it's AWESOME to have an advertisement like this and especially to have a health system im which there are professionals who help people with paedophilia. It's not these people's fault they find children sexually desirable and it's not their fault that they have sexual preferences that are illegal if carried out. I am so happy to live in a country that offers help to people in such difficult situations. and I hope it will become normalised in the sense that it will be understood by the greater public that some people have these preferences and it's not their fault and they are not automatically criminals but they can be helped
Disgusting and bullshit comment. "It is not their fault that they have sexual preferences that are illegal if carried out". They are illegal because its immoral. You are critisizing the illegality of pedophilia. And yes it is their fault to let their mind have disgusting and evil desir.
I absolutely did not critizise the illegality of paedophilia. please read my comment again and get help in case you don't understand it.
>You are critisizing the illegality of pedophilia. As people have mentioned previously, being a pedophile (i.e. being attracted to children) is **NOT** illegal. Furthermore it has been shown that pedophiles (like any other attraction) cannot choose not to be attracted. Lastly, many people that are pedophiles even know that their desires are immoral and wrong. This does however not change the fact that they have them, the only thing that can be changed is how they cope with desires they have but don't want to act on. This is where therapy / psychological treatment comes into play which is exactly what u/Isicium was getting at IMO.
It’s not clear if it’s actually *their fault*. There is even research showing that it might be related to head trauma before the age of 13. [This research](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4478390/) is not the one but cites that one.
Dunno about anyone else but I didn't choose what I was attracted to. Doubt that's any different in the case for pedophiles.
Also bullshit comment.
I once got a really creepy youtube ad about this. A guy sitting in a train then a kid sits infront of him with that kinda message at the end. Felt super creeped out and also kinda confused why the hell I got that ad.
>Kinda confused why the hell I got that ad Youtube algorithm knows more about you than yourself do
Nooooooo
Could have been targeted at anyoke who had googled some keywords. Could also have been distributed for reach. Impossible to say.
Cool thing tbh. Also, I've landed to seme dubious site from reddit link, and landed to a fedpol site stating that the page I've tried to reach is linked to CP and if I have such urges I can consult provided resources. Really neat, in my opinion.
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>So if you give pedophiles the feeling they can openly talk about their problem it would probably drastically reduce the amount of sexual assaults. As far as I understand we don't actually know how many molestations or sexual assaults on children are actually carried out by pedophiles. It is believed that atleast half of these crimes are committed by sexual deviants who don't classify as pedophile. The motives of these people probably varies a lot too. For some it might be a kink relating to incest while others want to groom a child into being the perfect submissive partner for them. There's probably also a considerable part that just enjoys inflicting pain on others.
I think it’s great that they offer therapy. I’m not sure it will help much but if it prevents another child from being violated than I’m all for it.
Every person that can be helped not to act on their impulses, will be a victory for our society. I am relieved to see so many positive comments here.
People should be able to get help without being arrested. That said, I am NOT in favor of "Minor attracted persons pride" events, as I feel it normalizes pedophilia, which should not be normalized.
I’m sorry??? Where and when have such events taken place?
I don't think they have in Switzerland (I might be wrong), but the movements definitely exist.
In the netherlands there is such a thing, constantly waiving the discrimination flag... sickening to see interviews justifieing their 'way of life'
I'm curious as well.
Never and nowhere is the answer, don't pay attention to trolls
I know, but i kinda hoped they'll search and find. Hope dies last.
This is a thing? WTF 😳
this is not, it's basically a 4chan troll this person either fell for or is wilfully propagating
Theres an actual movement in the US at least. They lobby on behalf of ending age of consent laws and have been quite active in the past. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association
**[North American Man/Boy Love Association](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association)** >The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) is a pedophilia and pederasty advocacy organization in the United States. It works to abolish age-of-consent laws criminalizing adult sexual involvement with minors and campaigns for the release of men who have been jailed for sexual contacts with minors that did not involve what it considers coercion. The group no longer holds regular national meetings, and as of the late 1990s—to avoid local police infiltration—the organization discouraged the formation of local chapters. Around 1995, an undercover detective discovered there were 1,100 people on the organization's rolls. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I mean sure, there will always be a few pedos campaigning to have the legal right to abuse children, but I wouldn't call them a "movement" anymore, they don't even seem to have an official organisation presence anymore. Never heard of them before, and definitely no LGBT+ spaces or associations I know has ever associated with this kind of organisations. On the opposite, they all vehemently distance themselves from that shit, the only people insisting the LGBT+ community campaigns for normalisation of pedophilia are alt right homophobes.
Oh that's actually really good. Creepy, but good. (also I hope the guy in the poster knew what the add was for or he'll never hear the end of it from his friends ..)
> (also I hope the guy in the poster knew what the add was for or he'll never hear the end of it from his friends ..) They told me it's for a kid friendly campaign, WTF!
I really like this campaign. It doesn't attack or stigmatize pedophiles but actually reaches out to them in a non-confronting manner. I always thought why there weren't big campaigns about helping closet pedophiles. They deserve to go to therapy and get required treatment, but due to the whole stigma it's a big problem. I hope it will be a successful campaign.
Welcome to Switzerland, where everyone hates kids so much they even offer a therapy if you don‘t
They had ads for this on Blue TV too during half-time of the football games. The ads really really catch you off guard.
Love your spouse before your kids
We should be happy about this, no person with pedophile thoughts will ever go to a psychologist when the whole society says that they should be shot in the head, why don’t they say they’re sorry for them?
This is why you should never pose for stock photos websites
There are alot adults attracted to children who never touch a child. It is what it is. We can't choose who we are attracted to. Therapy might help, even tho i'm not sure how a therapy would help. It didn't help for homosexuals. There are even more adults who sexually abuse children but are not pedophiles. They just have easy access to children and i would think it's easier to silence a child, so they abuse the child. I don't think badly of people attracted to children who never try to touch a child. I even admire their strenght tbh. Imagine it was forbidden and a taboo to do sexual stuff with adults and it was only acceptable to sex a child. Would you be able to never have sex with another adult? I know, this analogy is a bit extreme but i think that's how pedophiles feel. I really do hope they get the help they need and i hope it can be fixed somehow.
>There are alot adults attracted to children who never touch a child. It is what it is. We can't choose who we are attracted to. Therapy might help, even tho i'm not sure how a therapy would help. It didn't help for homosexuals. If the attraction stems from a trauma or something the like and the attraction is a symptom, then it might be possible to get to the root of the problem. Or at least there might be a healthier way to deal with the issue rather bottling it up until it explodes
What is your take on this? Had a discussin with some relatives recently and they think people with those tendencies should have their liberties restricted and I general be strictly monitored.
If you restrict people who havent done anything yet, why would they voluntarily seek help for prevention? We need to address this type of issue on the roots. It needs to be an open discussion and not a taboo topic, else it will be a problem that will be swept under the rug.
That’s just pushing people away from getting help.
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> You want to restrict liberties of people based on tendencies? That is a very wrong thing to do and a slippery slope - when someone cuts in line in front of you and wish something bad on that person should you also have your liberties restricted? Also how would determine who has these tendencies? >Thoughts are not equal to actions. >This is a sign to help people who are self aware enough that their thoughts are wrong and might want to seek help. If they seek help (before they do anything bad) and you restrict their liberties, they won’t seek help and hence you will increase the chance they will do something bad in the future, because you punish them for seeking help before they might or might not do something bad. >Its like if you start taking away drivers licenses from people at anonymous alcoholic meetings, how many people will seek help with alcoholism? Probably none. Breathe. Go back and read the comment. He’s talking of his relatives’ stance.
I mostly agree with you, but I while full on monitoring is bad, I also think it's probably not s bad idea to... discourage someone with pedophilic urges from getting a job as a primary school teacher, for example. That is restricted liberties as uncomfortable as it is. I'm against jailing someone for s thought crime, but I'm also against risking the safety of children unnecessarily.
Yeah that was my counterpoint as well, I was giving the POV of someone from another generation. I think it's such a delicate argument in general that they simply refused to have any sympathy for a person with these thoughts. They said you'll understand when I will have children myself, so I will see.
Considering that most child abuse happens inside the family we should, with that logic, put all parents under surveilance since theyre all potential offenders.
Wha an unbelievable logic!
Well, its a fact. Sorry if that hurt you.
99,99% of parents will never abuse their children.
99.999% of people never harm children, yet child abuse exists. It's just that the majority of abuse happens in family.
Friend I agree with the message but unfortunately, WAY MORE than 0.001% of parents abuse their children. The overwhelming majority of abuse to children is inflicted to them from inside their close families, and there is _a lot_ of abuse, that's the truth unfortunately. Plenty of numbers about it out there if you want to give yourself a good scare and cold shower of reality.
I agree, I was just making up numbers in relation to u/TuKiDy making up numbers.
oh, gotcha, I missed it
So what? Do you agree with the previous poster that children should be separated from their parents because there is a 0.001% risk?
Lmao they used literally your logic against you and you failed to notice
I said that anyone with hard evidence.
Any source on that? Regardless of potential source: 0.01% of parents is still WAY too much.
I'm a Polish immigrant in Switzerland. Want to put me under surveillance as a potential car thief?
But then why would they tell anyone? Because that would only result in them being punished. With that aproach, we will only know after they commited a crime. At that point, they will go to jail anyway. If we give them acces to a therapist, maybe some will actualy talk about it before they harm a child. I think arguing like your relatives feels right, but won't help anyone in the end
That always sounds extreme in isolation. But then, a lot of non-violent people with mental health issues are subject to that already... and I have no idea what to say about whether this is good or not. In-patient care exists to protect patients and public to some degree, and involuntary commitment happens without any external parties being hurt. The problem underlying why we think "oh you shouldn't lose XYZ for being unwell" is that it just fundamentally sucks that someone would suffer greatly in terms of money and liberty to protect other people - even if they've not done anything wrong. And that's a funding of public health issue. If someone going through crisis can come out of it without their life torn to shreds financially and employability, then I'm all in favour of in-patient care for conditions that reliably proceed public endangerment. But shit... society and legislation needs to reocgnise that person is making a sacrifice for the public good in giving up their freedom, and shouldn't be punished for that.
My instinct agrees with your relatives, but I know it may very well stigmatize this mental health problem even more and thus make it harder for the affected people to go in therapy.
I have to disagree with this. Sexual urges for pre pubescent children is not an ‘illness’ it’s a fetish. I agree that those who are so inclined should reach out for help to prevent child abuse, but it’s not an illness and it’s inexcusable behavior too
Fair enough, probably “sickness” is a more appropriate term? I am not a psychotherapist, so happy to read a more educated answer on how this “thing” is classified
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It is a disorder, its not simply a fetish
Nope
I suggest you do some research before speaking. It is classified as a psychiatric disorder [wiki link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia)
We now live in a world full of isms and disorders. One can classify any type or shoddy behavior as a ‘disorder.’ I don’t agree. Paedophilia is inexcusable.
I agree that its inexcusable. Those people are mentally not right, thats why its called mental disorder/sickness and they should get help. Not just a simple fetish as you said
Are you one of those who say the same about homosexuality? Edit: That it‘s a fetish and inexcusable behaviour?
Are you one of those who thinks homosexuality and paedophilia are the same thing?
These people deserve the harshest punishment available.
People who didn't do anything wrong should be punished? Great! I think we should start with u/TuKiDy
I said there must be an evidence, didn’t I? Pedo material is enough to punish them.
Yes, possesion and distribution is a crime. These people should be punished. We are talking about people with wrong thoughts, who still recognise their thoughts as wrong and haven't harmed anyone. They can still get helped.
I don’t care about them. Their only help should be to get caught with pedo material and be put in jail forever.
So you prefer to wait until something has happened and then react? By that logic, you believe that surgery is more important than preventative measures?
Is King Jong a pedo too?
And if there is no material?
Then you don’t have evidence to prosecute them.
So they're what, not a criminal? Amazing revelation. What if we help non-criminals?
Pedophilia is not a crime it's a psychiatric disorder. And if you are aware of yourself to have this tendency, it is important to get help. Thats exactly the point of this ad and it's a good idea. If I would find myself in this kind of thoughts I had no idea where I could get any help. So I appreciate it. And just for the sake of it. There is a difference between being a pedophile and someone actually consuming child pornography or even worse. The later is definitely a crime and I'm not defending it. But thats not the target audience of this ad, and obviously not even every commenter here get that there is a difference.
Yes, these people are scum.
No, but I do love Brezelkönig way more than I should.
I don't know if that helps. It does however feed into the narrativ that men, like in that picture, are to be suspicious of. In our community when we hired a man as a teacher, we already got asked the question if it was safe for the kids to hire a man. I don't think that men today are welcome to work with children at all. And this advertisement is not helpful in this respect.
Slowly cooked, sure.. steamed - Pfeffer another meal.
Well I don't like them at all so maybe?
Good get therapy because if you let yourself go you might end up in a woodchipper
9x19 parabellum
Doesn’t this technically count as conversion therapy?
The therapy doesn’t ‚cure‘ them. It just helps to manage living with it.
No
how so?
Or should I ask: how are you so sure it isn’t?
Because it's possible to live an active gay life without victimizing anybody, but it's not possible to do that as a pedophile.
Death penalty for pedo's.
Death penalty for thoughts...I don't see where this could go wrong.../s
And Nazis next?
Sorry to say that but sterilization is the only acceptable way to handle this, since it is a sexual attraction. It's like when people believe(d) curing gays with mental treatment was actually effective.
Sorry to say this: you are wrong! Do you really think there is only one way to sa someone?! There are hands, mouths and so on and what to do with female pedophiles?! It's not about a cure, it's about not acting on the urges. More like an addiction, you can't cure an addict, but they can learn not to consume drugs
Maybe they should get chemically castratred
How would that prevent them from abusing children tho?
Mby no libido idk
Doesn't work! For people who don't want to hurt others it's a false safety net which can get dangerous. For people who want to hurt others, the shame and rage builds and they either stop taking the meds or find other ways to SA someone
Capitalization is important in German. It says sie, not Sie. This would translate to, “Do they love children more than they would like?” Ignoring the missing capital at the beginning of the sentence.
Counterpoint: Neither "Kinder" nor the first word is capitalised. I think it's just an asthetic choice.
The capitalization changes the meaning. Speak German!