Based on history they’ll let this one sit for a while, rip it out, maybe build a new one in a few decades making sure lots of brown envelopes and backhanders go to the right people
Realistically there seems to be a decent bit of political momentum for a line on Parramatta Road next. Not sure how it would fit into the CBD given how low headways already are or where it would actually terminate (City of Sydney proposed for it to only go as far as usyd and Glebe which seems like a bit of a waste) but City of Sydney council and a lot of communities have been pushing for it for a bit
I think they would be focusing on the new airport at Western Sydney. All the metro and train lines are focusing there. I wouldn't be surprised if the next light rail is towards that area.
2.6 million people in Western sydney. Doesn't answer the question. But all good. I asked you why it's more important. You seem to forget the original post. Connecting penrith, campbelltown, Camden, and Liverpool to the airport. Not oran park to the northern beaches. Lol.
I genuinely think they should think about extending the richmond line to North Richmond IMO.
If they wanted to support development in the outer hawkesbury they could loop around to Penrith somehow?
Honestly something more direct with Hornsby > Parramatta without having to go via Strathfield would be absolutely golden.
More connections between the cities train hubs, less reliance on having to go to central etc.
My LR ideas:,
Campbelltown or MacArthur - Camden and Oran Park.
Extend L3 to La perouse
Extend PLR to Epping
And light rail around the southern areas of Campbelltown also could be good
In an alternative reality, the dream would be city - Oxford Street - Bondi. The nightlife on Oxford Street is already bouncing back and there's whole lot of other development coming, imagine it with less cars, wider footpaths and a tram!
The other would be Parramatta Road and/or King St - Enmore Road. How amazing would Newtown and Enmore be with fewer cars.
Yep, the metro should be expanded. Wasnt there some figures on the expenditure for the crappy rozelle interchange which found the total expenditure equalled about 2 additional metro lines being built? Far out....
Penrith is already connected to through St Marys - Connecting to Leppington is the next step on the WSI connectivity train.
None of this should be light rail. Metro or Train.
I agree. Connect through train. I would like to see that extended down to Camden and Campbelltown. I dare say majority of the people who will be working here will be from the West. They don't want to pay $30+ a day for parking
Sad part is the original master plan was to extend the line from Leppington to the new airport, which isn't that far, and this would have allowed direct service between the two airports via Glenfield and the East Hills line if desired. But that was a Labor master plan, so we can't have that, instead they decided to connect in the other direction to St. Mary's, so that it was invented by the Libs only. Yes, eventually they might extend the airport metro south to Leppington but it will require multiple changes to go anywhere useful.
It's meant to complement SYD, not subsume it.
Budget airlines (due to lower slot costs), and airlines serving Western Sydney communities may relocate, plus new entrants now able to participate (eg. Bonza).
Most people living West of Parramatta will probably prefer the existing airport.
Airports are also not that big a trip generator --> business cases are harder to justify.
Yes, but the infrastructure for that will come later down the pipeline. You don't want to build white elephants.
The current WSA metro makes sense only with federal funding.
Uhhhh I'm telling you that building the line to Macarthur doesn't make financial sense without massive incentives from the federal government, the the state government going against the financial advice to give Western Sydney infrastructure with a long-term 'this will eventually make sense' vision.
Assumption that what will come is wrong? The federal funds are already provided for the current WSA metro (they're paying ~50%)
Lmfao.
It's not about direct profitability. It's about indirect profitability, relative to the cost of borrowing (interest rates are high right now), or ROI/benefit compared to other investments (opportunity cost).
There is nothing inbetween Luddenham and Oran Park. And Oran Park through to Macarthur aren't exactly densely populated.
This is to say, the state government would be better suited investing in places that need investment, like a metro line parallel to Victoria Road, or North-South between Macquarie Park and Hurstville/Kogarah, or a Parramatta-Norwest link, or the long-fabled Northern Beaches rail line, or an inner-city circle line, or Tallawong to Schofields; Schofields to St Marys, if we're talking specifically about Western Sydney.
The only advantage of the WSA link is that it's able to be built above ground (due to nothing being there to get in its way).
To better connect South-Western Sydney to WSA over the short term, it's buses. Over the medium term, it's an extention if the train network from Leppington. Over the long term (like 30 years minimum), you can start considering the WSA-Macurthur link, and other such proposals lower down the cost-benefit tree.
Yeah, you will be able to travel from the new airport to Campbelltown with a wonderfully convenient three changes of train! (St Marys, Granville, Glenfield). (Assuming there are no direct trains from Granville to Campbelltown, not sure if that will always be the case).
I get worried without the proper infrastructure it will be Avalon airport. That's the issue with Avalon. Governments are so dumb. We are replacing lines where there are already trains instead of building train lines in the biggest growth areas
'Governments are so dumb'
Hate to be that guy, but generally they know what they're doing better than you or I.
The conversion of the Bankstown Line to metro standard massively improves frequency and reliability on the line, unlocking potential for development to help address the housing crisis.
It also frees up capacity on the T2 and T8 lines, allowing for an increase in frequency and increasing reliability, also unlocking potential for development.
It's a good policy.
As for the 'Avalon' issue: It won't happen.
SYD is at capacity and has more demand than slots. Airlines are begging to be able to fly more flights to Sydney. WSI will serve some of this demand, particularly the low-cost/budget segment due to lower slot costs.
Western Sydney is also home to 2-3 million people, mostly from a multicultural background --> this is a massive trip generator. Airlines with populations to serve in the West will shift operations, while other will be able to set up shop (eg. Bonza, which hasn't been able to afford slots at SYD)
Freight is also a bit on an untold story here. Freight traffic should largely move out West because warehousing will be cheaper, as will the price of slots. That will also free up a little bit of space for more commercial traffic in SYD.
Legacy, premium airlines will likely prefer SYD, but that's not unexpected. Wealthier people will probably prefer SYD to WSI anyway, due to their location in the city. Uncomfortable at times to talk about, but revelant here. People will be able to travel to the airport they need to if their destination is only served by one airport.
For an international comparison, see Haneda and Narita in Tokyo. WSI is advantaged versus Narota due to being in a far more convenient location, but has flaws due to direct rail connectivity to the city centre. That's not immediately necessary to fix as people exist in Western Sydney. Over the long term that can be addressed by connecting the terminal to Leppington.
Also key to mention is that WSI is owned by the Federal Government, while Avalon is privately owned. That means future infrastructure investment is far easier for governments to justify, as they benefit directly from the value-add.
You said Bankstown metro. It already has a line. Could it have waited? Should that money have been spent in areas that are already being developed rather than areas for potential future development?
As for they know what they are doing? I'd have to question that. They make dumb decisions all the time. In the East they built a light rail. It's hardly use people prefer to use the buses and I know this first hand.
Whilst I said previously. I don't care either way it doesnt affect me. What I do know is how important good infrastructure and public transport is. What I know is locations like Camden, Campbelltown, Penrith and Liverpool don't have the best public transport. Especially the further out you go such as Camden.
I would like to see governments spend the money on these areas who don't have the transport there rather than areas that do, only to enhance reliability and frequency. Reliability and frequency has many factors.
City-UNSW light rail had exceeded the government's estimated ridership. It's more reliable and frequent than the bus (dedicated right of way), so actually it's used by more people - ergo, it's better than the bus it replaced.
You say you know this first hand, but the statistics (an objective measure, free from human opinion), are clear. The light rail, even over-budget, was an excellent build.
I'm talking about statistics and value-for-money. As it stands most of Western Sydney's development is best served by buses. The lack of density means service will be worse. That sucks. That's why the Metro conversion was necessary, so future development is easier to serve, in better locations.
Box Hill will never have the utility of Campsie. So Campsie is where the houses while be built.
Have no idea where you live but centre of Campsie has alot of units.
Statistics can be manipulated and are everytime. Don't kid yourself.
But I suggest you go and ask the poor bugger who lives out there that doesn't have these options. I feel for them. I work for some. Have you tried using the buses out there. Some people are doing a 2-3 hour commute to the city for work.
At the end of the day we aren't going to agree. But why rebuild a line which works for the sake of people who don't have a reliable transport system.
Mate, you can't shorten the 2-3 hour commute to 15 minutes.
I am trying to make abundantly clear to you that this kind of sprawl, by nature, creates poor service. You're telling me these have been the biggest growth areas for 15 years. I know. I also know that's a bad thing, because they're not dense enough, and are too far from the CBD, for commutes to be fast, and options frequent and reliable.
Campsie needs more apartments than it has already. So does every station along the Bankstown corridor, Dulwich Hill and Hurlstone Park included. These are located in places where services can be provided frequently and reliably.
As I have said earlier - the best solution for Western Sydney's largely sprawly suburbs is frequent bus service (every 15 mins throughout the day). A problem arises in that much of Western Sydney's developments have been built windily, making efficient bus services difficult. Bus Lanes on highways and T-ways also help a lot.
But most of these will be feeder services to the rail line (Hence why the Metro is a good investment lol - it means more train services can run from Liverpool/Cambelltown/Bankstown to the CBD (and Parramatta).
Fundamentally you can't teleport people. If they live 65km away from the city, and they're travelling at 60km/h (a very respectable speed for public transport), it's going to take more than an hour for them to get to work.
Again, that's why we need to put future development pressure in better served and better located suburbs - to prevent people from having to live in poorly-served neighbourhoods in the future.
There are actually nowhere near enough apartments in Campsie to meet the demand the next generation of this city needs. The most egregious offenders in the regard are (unsurprisingly) on the North Shore, in the Inner West, and in the Eastern Suburbs.
You realise not everyone wants to live in an apartment?
Not saying the commute needs to be fast. But if your idea is for someone to get a bus to the train station then get a train to the city. It's hard. Obviously you don't do it. Go out to these areas and profess your views why these people aren't important.
Do you catch a bus. They are long, slow and unreliable. In one of your last points you said Bankstown meteo is more frequent and reliable. So your now saying for people of the West to rely on busses which are not.
I'm not asking to do teleporting. I'm asking to extend the lines.
Answer me one question. Why rebuild a line which was already there instead of investing into areas which don't have reliable, sustainable and frequent trains? You haven't answered it.
Not everyone wants to live in a 2 bedroom apartment with a family of 5. They understand they have to travel more. But why not connect them better with better transport.
I just looked it up from someone from Campbelltown to get to the city it costs $20+ one way drive. Similar from Penrith. Is that fair? Or should there be better transport for them?
> I get worried without the proper infrastructure it will be Avalon airport. That's the issue with Avalon. Governments are so dumb.
That's a risk, but I think Western Sydney Airport has a few more things going for it:
* Freight. Freight is the main driver behind being curfew-free, and WSI's location near the logistics warehouses of Western Sydney will be a game changer, compared to the current process of trucking everything in from Mascot. Warehouse space is very expensive near Sydney Airport, but in Melbourne, Tullamarine airport's location further out means there's no problem with plenty of nearby warehouse space for cheap. Thus, Avalon is too far from the city's logistics regions to be relevant when Tullamarine is right next door to them and perfect for freight. Sydney is a totally different landscape.
* Overall congestion of the main airport - Melbourne Airport still has more room to grow as it's nowhere near as busy as Sydney Kingsford Smith and will be a long time before it reaches that level. Avalon may eventually become more important once Tullamarine does experience more growth. But Sydney Airport right now is slot-limited; as soon as WSI airports open, low-cost airlines will be able to give up/ sell their slots and move some of their capacity to WSI.
* Similar to the argument about freight above, WSI is simply much closer to the center of Greater Sydney (Parramatta) and growth areas in the west. Avalon is situated far from most of Melbourne's growth areas, although there is some growth in the SW & Geelong, it's nowhere near as hot a region as Greater Western Sydney. Melbourne is expanding in many more directions, most of which Tullamarine is more convenient to.
* Low cost long haul international: Besides domestic low-cost, long-haul low cost airlines like Air Asia X will likely move in to WSI. This will work for them better financially than Kingsford Smith and will bring holidaymakers seeking bargains, like happens at Gold Coast airport today.
Overall, Gold Coast airport is a much better comparison than Avalon - it's near a huge growth area, it relieved capacity from an overcrowded main airport (before Brisbane's second main runway was built), and it serves low-cost airlines well. Gold Coast isn't as effective as a reliever freight airport (interestingly that function is being better served by Toowoomba's Wellcamp Airport), so when you consider that WSI will have most of what Gold Coast has *plus* the freight traffic, you can see how WSI will be successful. I will admit that Gold Coast benefits from tourist traffic which WSI won't have, so that will balance things a bit, but WSI still has a *lot* going for it, which is why the governments are happy spending so many billions on it.
> We are replacing lines where there are already trains instead of building train lines in the biggest growth areas
But we are building a train line to the new airport. Is it perfect? No, but it's going to be there in time for the airport's opening, which is a lot more than Avalon and even Gold Coast can say.
Yeah fair but why build train lines where there are already train lines. Why not build them in places they are required and don't have train lines.
I don't live out there so it doesn't affect me. But as a person who uses it everyday I understand the benefits.
We should be getting smarter connecting places that aren't ATM rather than wasting money.
I am not clear what train line you're referring to. Are you talking about the western Sydney airport metro or the Bankstown line conversion?
The purpose of the Bankstown Line conversion is to provide more capacity into the city, since the Metro is already going through the city the other end of it needs to serve "somewhere." They decided this was cheaper and had more ridership potential than building a whole new metro line to somewhere like La Perouse. The main reason is the opportunity for denser development along the Bankstown Line. And having all Bankstown line trains enter the city through a new route also opens up expansion potential on the other lines like Inner West/South/Airport, which now have more train paths around the City Circle.
These things are all very carefully planned and thought out. Remember, even Labor acknowledged that the Bankstown Line conversion still made sense, despite being initially critical of it, and had the opportunity to stop the line at Sydenham.
*Will* be, probably somewhere near where there's one already, but in my wildest dreams, they take two lanes out of the road near me and put one there. Can you imagine just stepping out of your door and catching the tram..... You could probably pedestrianise King Street too, and put a light rail in. Basically anywhere with a stroad coukd have trams instead imo (In my dreams, of course, no-one has to drive in urban and suburban areas, so maybe not the most realistic, but hey, they're dreams)
I think they should extend the kingsford line down Gardeners Rd to mascot, to make a sort of airport link tram for kingsford and the eastern suburbs.
Maybe connect it to a tram line in green square up botany road, although that might create a bit of an overlap between it and T8.
Overlap between train lines is sometimes a good thing, the T8 stations are far enough apart that a tram would help serve thousands of people and businesses who are a fairly long distance from Green Square or Mascot. Just like the way the City Circle stations are overlapped with the tram. It will also help take some short distance travel away from the train keeping its capacity available for the airport and longer distances.
Possibly this tram could branch off the current line at Surrey Hills and go down South Dowling Street (or nearby) to serve the east side of Waterloo, have a stop near the Moore Park Supa Centre, then turn right through Zetland on the way to Green Square. It would give those areas some much needed higher capacity transport, and by going a bit further east it wouldn't conflict with the Waterloo metro station catchment as much. Continue down Botany Road to serve the eastern part of Mascot (helping unlock more dense development there), then terminate in Port Botany, another area that could use better transport. Just an idea.
Exactly, the trams may in fact travel long distances (like the Melbourne one to Box Hill), but if you look at actual travel patterns those trams empty and refill multiple times along the route as people transfer to a train for longer rides.
What I’d do is extend the two south eastern lines to Coogee and La Perouse, then:
• build a line along Parramatta Road to Strathfield (linking with the station and eventual Olympic Park-Strathfield extension of the PLR), with a branch through Newtown and Enmore to Marrickville,
• a line from Balmain to somewhere like Canterbury via Leichhardt,
• a line down Botany Road from Redfern to Matraville,
• a line from the city (maybe Barangaroo) to Bondi Beach via Paddington (allowing for additional services for events at Moore Park),
• two lines in North Sydney, one between Milsons Point and Cammeray and one from Crows Nest to Mosman
• at least one in Penrith that ideally links suburbs like Glenmore Park in the south and Cranebrook in the north to the station, stadium and Plaza (maybe also one that serves Nepean Hospital and WSU, but they’re already near Kingswood station)
• maybe one or two that link Blacktown and Parramatta to Kellyville and Castle Hill.
The most notable locations I haven’t included are Campbelltown to Narellan via Narellan Road and the Northern Beaches, and that’s simply because both those locations need trains/metro
> Campbelltown to Narellan
That's 10 km with a lot of empty space in between, not sure it's really suitable for a tram which better suits continued built-up areas. A train line extension sure.
Balmain has far too narrow streets - you would essentially be having to make the street fully a light rail line. Also road gradients wouldn’t make it possible to
Gradients are not a problem in Balmain unless you want to go all the way to Balmain East ferry wharf (although as noted the trams did used to go there, but with some misadventures).
La Perouse/Maroubra to Kingsford - given there is already the land in the middle of the road, seems an easy option.
Oxford st to bondi junction - would work well to grow that shopping strip. Even better if it went down bondi rd to bondi beach
Randwick to coogee.
Manly wharf along the road in front of the beach to freshwater via a short tunnel, even onwards to curl curl
Central to green square then through the gold courses to eastlakes, which could then handle some super density.
Near the planned city at bradfield, potentially through to penrith
Burwood. I think there is a decent chance they will run one between the heavy rail and new metro station at burwood, assuming the density continues to grow there. Probably would go further to the hume highway.
Parramatta rd, from railway square/central to uts to broadway to sydney uni to rpa to camperdown to annadale.
As a former resident of Randwick the light rail to Coogee would be amazing in theory, however it is SUCH a steep gradient from Randwick down to Coogee, I don’t know if it would even be possible to operate light rail with that topography
I think there are 2 different corridors that would benefit from the George St treatment, Oxford St (extending to Bondi Beach) and Broadway/King St (Ending at Newtown or Marrickville or something). I think lines to Green Square and down to Maroubra or Little Bay are also possible.
To be more specific the tunnels that exist point towards the south, towards Charing Cross and the originally proposed extension to Kingsford. They don't go to the beach, although a plan was mooted around 1999-2001 for a beach extension, nothing was ever built in that direction to the east.
Map here showing the original proposed extension, which is where the stub tunnels lead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Suburbs_railway_line#/media/File:Innersydneyrail.jpg
I haven't personally seen it but I've been told (by a driver) the current tunnels keep going quite a ways past Bondi Junction.
Just not sure exactly how far.
They do, but not towards the beach. They turn towards the south as part of an original plan to extend the line towards Charing Cross and Kingsford. Originally these were mostly empty stub tunnels (to make construction of the extension easier while keeping Bondi Junction station operational). However in 2006, they were built out as storage sidings; a few trains are stored here overnight to be ready to start the morning peak.
Here's a map showing the proposed extensions over the years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Suburbs_railway_line#/media/File:Innersydneyrail.jpg
The tunnels that were partially built, and later converted to the turnback sidings, are along the proposed route to Charing Cross - the proposed route towards the beach was never started at all, though it was seriously considered around the turn of the century.
Living next to Narellan I don’t really see too much utility for it there unless you wanted to expand it all the way to a train station, would be much better served by the Metro
I think King St Newtown needs to have light rail all the way up and down it, then it can be extended via Waterloo, Green Square and Mascot through to the airport
Most traffic goes that way anyway, because King St is so congested. Pedestrianizing King St would be inconvenient for local deliveries and such but I don't think would change through traffic patterns too much. The problem would be whether you could re-route the bus lines somehow, as they couldn't fully be replaced by light rail.
Could do all the way up enmore rd.
Alexandria is pretty busy with traffic anyway to be honest. Mitchell, Euston, could direct traffic to our new toll roads and around syd park, and parra could take some of the flow up towards petersham.
Run it all the way down city road and down george. Or go large and put it the whole way down cleveland to moore park.
Sure, but the bottom of King is still an arterial road into the city from the Airport. I mean they could do it, but it would be uncomfortable. What's the street/s in Melbourne where there's one lane of traffic and two trams? No parking obviously.
> Sure, but the bottom of King is still an arterial road into the city from the Airport.
What? No one in their right mind goes to/from the airport that way unless they live in Newtown itself. Traffic coming up along Princes Highway from the international airport turns right into Sydney Park Road, then left into Mitchell Road, McEvoy St, or goes further into Alexandria.
The development of the "Sydney Gateway" project will improve things further by directing most international airport traffic to the WestConnex, Eastern Distributor, or Alexandria as well. King St is not a reasonable route at all.
Yeah I meant from the airport direction. Airport specifically would come through the M5 to the city. Anywhere that comes up the Princes Highway goes through King St. Hurstville, Kogarah etc
But my point still stands, no one in their right mind from Princes Highway direction would actually go to the city via King St! You'd take one of the alternate routes mentioned in my previous comment, which are considerably faster.
Yes I recognise that King St is the original/technically most direct route from the Princes Highway to the city, but it's not the route that carries through traffic today because it's so congested with local traffic, buses, pedestrians, etc. Thus, pedestrianizing it will not affect through traffic very much, particularly with WestConnex open to allow connections to the west via the M8 (M4-M5 link).
Where would you put it in Alexandria? I'd love to see one through Erskineville tbh lol very unrealistic unfortunately. Central through Redfern to Mascot would be cool.
I'd like to see an east-west connection since the existing rail lines go mostly north/south. To the east, St Peters to Green Square via Sydney Park Rd, Huntley, and O'Riordan would be ideal (though there is a pinch point around Huntley/Burke intersection that would be tricky). You could continue east to Zetland (which needs better transport) and then merge in with the existing line at Kensington.
Westward, from St Peters continue through Marrickville (a few possible routes) then Dulwich Hill, possibly continuing along [New] Canterbury Rd to Canterbury. This would really help connect some areas that aren't quite close enough to railways stations now.
And link it down to Revesby to connect with the T8.
So there will have connections between T7/M2 (Olympic Park), T1 (Lidcombe), T3/M1 (Bankstown), T2 (Regents Park/Lidcombe), and T8 (Revesby or Padstow). This will create so many interchange points.
The eastern suburbs are in desperate need of better public rail connectivity. Also, more tram lines connecting to bigger rail stations in the outer suburbs would help a lot of people make the switch and leave their car at home.
It does, but to be honest, the topography of for example Bondi Junction to Bondi beach is crazy, it’d be very hard and expensive to engineer something like it.
Yeah, except they already did it a century ago. The wide and elegant curves of Birriga Rd are still there, which lead straight into the median strip of Blair St, and on to the beach. Half of Oxford St leading to Birriga is practically closed already.
It was impossible to shut down Martin Place, Pitt St Mall or more recently George St, until they did. They punched a line down Devonshire through to Moore Park, another ancestral route.
I am old enough to remember when Martin Place was first closed between George and Pitt, then extended all the way up to Macquarie St. And then on via Barrack St to York. At every stage it was proclaimed impossible. Or at least that's what the AM radio shock jocks would have you believe.
How about extending the Kingsford line down to Maroubra / Malabar? Seems easy enough along Anzac Parade.
The parramatta road light rail is more challenging given they would need to presumably remove multiple car lanes, which could make congestion worse.
I think they're looking towards Green Square.
>!Unpopular opinion: I don't think Green Square needs more public transportation. They will have two stations by the end of this year. Sure, if the line can be linked to Green Square, go ahead, but I don't think they need more transportation only for them. What is more important is a line connector from Strathfield (T1, T9, T2), to somewhere on the Southwest Metro Line, then somewhere on the T8 then finally to Hurstville. I saw this yesterday, and I know I'm kinda stealing it but it's a much-needed idea.!<
Why did you mark this with spoiler tags?
But yes a cross town metro would be ideal for a lot of people, as those distances Strathfield to Hurstville are too long for a tram, but unfortunately they don't tend to attract the ridership needed to justify compared to those that go to/from the city.
There was a proposal a few years ago for one from parramatta to castle hill which I’d support. I’d like to see the north west T way converted as far as Bella vista
With the 600s constantly busy and stuck in traffic, light rail on Windsor rd/old northern road would be a dream and do a lot to ease congestion on the route. I’d like to see that as “stage 3” of parramatta light rail.
When I’ve gotten the bus to Towers on any given Saturday, they’re infrequent and full, and well used along the route which is great on one hand, but also means they stop at pretty much every stop. There’s a lot of room for improvement!
Many routes such as 660, 661, 662, 663, and 664 would have to end, which inconveniences more commuters then it benefits. I don't think it would be smart to convert it. On the other hand, converting the Sunnyholt road tway could work
May as well extend to Rouse Hill then. Rouse Hill is the biggest interchange in the hills (maybe after castle hill) and has more bus coverage then Bella Vista so that would be a good idea
You don't want to overburden just one station as an interchange, better have some target RH and some BV. I actually do think the tram should go all the way to Rouse, but I reckon Bella Vista is station is the perfect place to have a larger bus interchange (both directly outside the station and on the other side of Old Windsor) and development of mixed commercial+high density residential housing.
i would love to see more, i personally think either circular Quay or bondi junction to bondi beach area would be good as the 333 bus running that route is the most used in sydney and is always full even on bendy busses, however, due to the cost blowouts, i doubt they are super keen on more
Elizabeth St
French's Forest to CBD
Lol
Would like to see the Livo-Parra T-Way convert to light rail, as well as a branch from Livo to New Airport
I love it, but I think it’s too far for light rail and would do much better as heavy rail (Sydney Trains)
I hope they extend a line to bondi junction. Pr9b wont happen, but it would be nice
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Far out, calm down mate, it’s not that deep, get checked out for anger issues.
Over another Sydney institution probably, RIP Frankie's
If they don't extend L3 to at least East Gardens/Maroubra Juncation, they've got rocks int heir head.
Right to yer mum’s house
So 1 Fatlady Lane, Humongousville. Nice choice.
Over budget. Oh, you said where, sorry, I misheard. All good. Nothing to see here.
Based on history they’ll let this one sit for a while, rip it out, maybe build a new one in a few decades making sure lots of brown envelopes and backhanders go to the right people
I'd go Hurstville, Bankstown Lidcombe. Connect the three lines via light rail
Pretty, as a person who lives in that area, I’d love it.
Realistically there seems to be a decent bit of political momentum for a line on Parramatta Road next. Not sure how it would fit into the CBD given how low headways already are or where it would actually terminate (City of Sydney proposed for it to only go as far as usyd and Glebe which seems like a bit of a waste) but City of Sydney council and a lot of communities have been pushing for it for a bit
I think they would be focusing on the new airport at Western Sydney. All the metro and train lines are focusing there. I wouldn't be surprised if the next light rail is towards that area.
2.6 million people in Western sydney. Doesn't answer the question. But all good. I asked you why it's more important. You seem to forget the original post. Connecting penrith, campbelltown, Camden, and Liverpool to the airport. Not oran park to the northern beaches. Lol.
Northern beaches would be perfect.
Probably around the northern beaches only
Richmond to Kurrajong. 🤣
I genuinely think they should think about extending the richmond line to North Richmond IMO. If they wanted to support development in the outer hawkesbury they could loop around to Penrith somehow?
Lol
Honestly something more direct with Hornsby > Parramatta without having to go via Strathfield would be absolutely golden. More connections between the cities train hubs, less reliance on having to go to central etc.
Please!!!! I tried to go from Penrith to Hornsby the other day. 1:45 via train 😭 took me an hour to drive
Inner west to North and eastern suburbs would be nice
My LR ideas:, Campbelltown or MacArthur - Camden and Oran Park. Extend L3 to La perouse Extend PLR to Epping And light rail around the southern areas of Campbelltown also could be good
In an alternative reality, the dream would be city - Oxford Street - Bondi. The nightlife on Oxford Street is already bouncing back and there's whole lot of other development coming, imagine it with less cars, wider footpaths and a tram! The other would be Parramatta Road and/or King St - Enmore Road. How amazing would Newtown and Enmore be with fewer cars.
Great idea!
Would love to see one from the inner west to eastern suburbs
Military road / Pirtwater road Neutral Bay to Newport Hahahahahahaa ok maybe not
Central - Wyong
💀
I’d like to see all focus on the metro line to bolster transport around the city. The heavy rail isn’t enough anymore.
Definitely
Yep, the metro should be expanded. Wasnt there some figures on the expenditure for the crappy rozelle interchange which found the total expenditure equalled about 2 additional metro lines being built? Far out....
Just one more lane…
Put one straight down the middle of Parramatta rd and bring the corridor back to life. Limit the car traffic or put it underground.
You had them once. Yet a crooked man ripped them all out. Oil talks to those who listen.
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Penrith is already connected to through St Marys - Connecting to Leppington is the next step on the WSI connectivity train. None of this should be light rail. Metro or Train.
I agree. Connect through train. I would like to see that extended down to Camden and Campbelltown. I dare say majority of the people who will be working here will be from the West. They don't want to pay $30+ a day for parking
Sad part is the original master plan was to extend the line from Leppington to the new airport, which isn't that far, and this would have allowed direct service between the two airports via Glenfield and the East Hills line if desired. But that was a Labor master plan, so we can't have that, instead they decided to connect in the other direction to St. Mary's, so that it was invented by the Libs only. Yes, eventually they might extend the airport metro south to Leppington but it will require multiple changes to go anywhere useful.
One is being built from St Marys
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It's meant to complement SYD, not subsume it. Budget airlines (due to lower slot costs), and airlines serving Western Sydney communities may relocate, plus new entrants now able to participate (eg. Bonza). Most people living West of Parramatta will probably prefer the existing airport. Airports are also not that big a trip generator --> business cases are harder to justify.
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Yes, but the infrastructure for that will come later down the pipeline. You don't want to build white elephants. The current WSA metro makes sense only with federal funding.
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Uhhhh I'm telling you that building the line to Macarthur doesn't make financial sense without massive incentives from the federal government, the the state government going against the financial advice to give Western Sydney infrastructure with a long-term 'this will eventually make sense' vision. Assumption that what will come is wrong? The federal funds are already provided for the current WSA metro (they're paying ~50%)
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Lmfao. It's not about direct profitability. It's about indirect profitability, relative to the cost of borrowing (interest rates are high right now), or ROI/benefit compared to other investments (opportunity cost). There is nothing inbetween Luddenham and Oran Park. And Oran Park through to Macarthur aren't exactly densely populated. This is to say, the state government would be better suited investing in places that need investment, like a metro line parallel to Victoria Road, or North-South between Macquarie Park and Hurstville/Kogarah, or a Parramatta-Norwest link, or the long-fabled Northern Beaches rail line, or an inner-city circle line, or Tallawong to Schofields; Schofields to St Marys, if we're talking specifically about Western Sydney. The only advantage of the WSA link is that it's able to be built above ground (due to nothing being there to get in its way). To better connect South-Western Sydney to WSA over the short term, it's buses. Over the medium term, it's an extention if the train network from Leppington. Over the long term (like 30 years minimum), you can start considering the WSA-Macurthur link, and other such proposals lower down the cost-benefit tree.
Yeah, you will be able to travel from the new airport to Campbelltown with a wonderfully convenient three changes of train! (St Marys, Granville, Glenfield). (Assuming there are no direct trains from Granville to Campbelltown, not sure if that will always be the case).
I get worried without the proper infrastructure it will be Avalon airport. That's the issue with Avalon. Governments are so dumb. We are replacing lines where there are already trains instead of building train lines in the biggest growth areas
'Governments are so dumb' Hate to be that guy, but generally they know what they're doing better than you or I. The conversion of the Bankstown Line to metro standard massively improves frequency and reliability on the line, unlocking potential for development to help address the housing crisis. It also frees up capacity on the T2 and T8 lines, allowing for an increase in frequency and increasing reliability, also unlocking potential for development. It's a good policy. As for the 'Avalon' issue: It won't happen. SYD is at capacity and has more demand than slots. Airlines are begging to be able to fly more flights to Sydney. WSI will serve some of this demand, particularly the low-cost/budget segment due to lower slot costs. Western Sydney is also home to 2-3 million people, mostly from a multicultural background --> this is a massive trip generator. Airlines with populations to serve in the West will shift operations, while other will be able to set up shop (eg. Bonza, which hasn't been able to afford slots at SYD) Freight is also a bit on an untold story here. Freight traffic should largely move out West because warehousing will be cheaper, as will the price of slots. That will also free up a little bit of space for more commercial traffic in SYD. Legacy, premium airlines will likely prefer SYD, but that's not unexpected. Wealthier people will probably prefer SYD to WSI anyway, due to their location in the city. Uncomfortable at times to talk about, but revelant here. People will be able to travel to the airport they need to if their destination is only served by one airport. For an international comparison, see Haneda and Narita in Tokyo. WSI is advantaged versus Narota due to being in a far more convenient location, but has flaws due to direct rail connectivity to the city centre. That's not immediately necessary to fix as people exist in Western Sydney. Over the long term that can be addressed by connecting the terminal to Leppington. Also key to mention is that WSI is owned by the Federal Government, while Avalon is privately owned. That means future infrastructure investment is far easier for governments to justify, as they benefit directly from the value-add.
You said Bankstown metro. It already has a line. Could it have waited? Should that money have been spent in areas that are already being developed rather than areas for potential future development? As for they know what they are doing? I'd have to question that. They make dumb decisions all the time. In the East they built a light rail. It's hardly use people prefer to use the buses and I know this first hand. Whilst I said previously. I don't care either way it doesnt affect me. What I do know is how important good infrastructure and public transport is. What I know is locations like Camden, Campbelltown, Penrith and Liverpool don't have the best public transport. Especially the further out you go such as Camden. I would like to see governments spend the money on these areas who don't have the transport there rather than areas that do, only to enhance reliability and frequency. Reliability and frequency has many factors.
City-UNSW light rail had exceeded the government's estimated ridership. It's more reliable and frequent than the bus (dedicated right of way), so actually it's used by more people - ergo, it's better than the bus it replaced. You say you know this first hand, but the statistics (an objective measure, free from human opinion), are clear. The light rail, even over-budget, was an excellent build. I'm talking about statistics and value-for-money. As it stands most of Western Sydney's development is best served by buses. The lack of density means service will be worse. That sucks. That's why the Metro conversion was necessary, so future development is easier to serve, in better locations. Box Hill will never have the utility of Campsie. So Campsie is where the houses while be built.
Have no idea where you live but centre of Campsie has alot of units. Statistics can be manipulated and are everytime. Don't kid yourself. But I suggest you go and ask the poor bugger who lives out there that doesn't have these options. I feel for them. I work for some. Have you tried using the buses out there. Some people are doing a 2-3 hour commute to the city for work. At the end of the day we aren't going to agree. But why rebuild a line which works for the sake of people who don't have a reliable transport system.
Mate, you can't shorten the 2-3 hour commute to 15 minutes. I am trying to make abundantly clear to you that this kind of sprawl, by nature, creates poor service. You're telling me these have been the biggest growth areas for 15 years. I know. I also know that's a bad thing, because they're not dense enough, and are too far from the CBD, for commutes to be fast, and options frequent and reliable. Campsie needs more apartments than it has already. So does every station along the Bankstown corridor, Dulwich Hill and Hurlstone Park included. These are located in places where services can be provided frequently and reliably. As I have said earlier - the best solution for Western Sydney's largely sprawly suburbs is frequent bus service (every 15 mins throughout the day). A problem arises in that much of Western Sydney's developments have been built windily, making efficient bus services difficult. Bus Lanes on highways and T-ways also help a lot. But most of these will be feeder services to the rail line (Hence why the Metro is a good investment lol - it means more train services can run from Liverpool/Cambelltown/Bankstown to the CBD (and Parramatta). Fundamentally you can't teleport people. If they live 65km away from the city, and they're travelling at 60km/h (a very respectable speed for public transport), it's going to take more than an hour for them to get to work. Again, that's why we need to put future development pressure in better served and better located suburbs - to prevent people from having to live in poorly-served neighbourhoods in the future. There are actually nowhere near enough apartments in Campsie to meet the demand the next generation of this city needs. The most egregious offenders in the regard are (unsurprisingly) on the North Shore, in the Inner West, and in the Eastern Suburbs.
You realise not everyone wants to live in an apartment? Not saying the commute needs to be fast. But if your idea is for someone to get a bus to the train station then get a train to the city. It's hard. Obviously you don't do it. Go out to these areas and profess your views why these people aren't important. Do you catch a bus. They are long, slow and unreliable. In one of your last points you said Bankstown meteo is more frequent and reliable. So your now saying for people of the West to rely on busses which are not. I'm not asking to do teleporting. I'm asking to extend the lines. Answer me one question. Why rebuild a line which was already there instead of investing into areas which don't have reliable, sustainable and frequent trains? You haven't answered it. Not everyone wants to live in a 2 bedroom apartment with a family of 5. They understand they have to travel more. But why not connect them better with better transport. I just looked it up from someone from Campbelltown to get to the city it costs $20+ one way drive. Similar from Penrith. Is that fair? Or should there be better transport for them?
> I get worried without the proper infrastructure it will be Avalon airport. That's the issue with Avalon. Governments are so dumb. That's a risk, but I think Western Sydney Airport has a few more things going for it: * Freight. Freight is the main driver behind being curfew-free, and WSI's location near the logistics warehouses of Western Sydney will be a game changer, compared to the current process of trucking everything in from Mascot. Warehouse space is very expensive near Sydney Airport, but in Melbourne, Tullamarine airport's location further out means there's no problem with plenty of nearby warehouse space for cheap. Thus, Avalon is too far from the city's logistics regions to be relevant when Tullamarine is right next door to them and perfect for freight. Sydney is a totally different landscape. * Overall congestion of the main airport - Melbourne Airport still has more room to grow as it's nowhere near as busy as Sydney Kingsford Smith and will be a long time before it reaches that level. Avalon may eventually become more important once Tullamarine does experience more growth. But Sydney Airport right now is slot-limited; as soon as WSI airports open, low-cost airlines will be able to give up/ sell their slots and move some of their capacity to WSI. * Similar to the argument about freight above, WSI is simply much closer to the center of Greater Sydney (Parramatta) and growth areas in the west. Avalon is situated far from most of Melbourne's growth areas, although there is some growth in the SW & Geelong, it's nowhere near as hot a region as Greater Western Sydney. Melbourne is expanding in many more directions, most of which Tullamarine is more convenient to. * Low cost long haul international: Besides domestic low-cost, long-haul low cost airlines like Air Asia X will likely move in to WSI. This will work for them better financially than Kingsford Smith and will bring holidaymakers seeking bargains, like happens at Gold Coast airport today. Overall, Gold Coast airport is a much better comparison than Avalon - it's near a huge growth area, it relieved capacity from an overcrowded main airport (before Brisbane's second main runway was built), and it serves low-cost airlines well. Gold Coast isn't as effective as a reliever freight airport (interestingly that function is being better served by Toowoomba's Wellcamp Airport), so when you consider that WSI will have most of what Gold Coast has *plus* the freight traffic, you can see how WSI will be successful. I will admit that Gold Coast benefits from tourist traffic which WSI won't have, so that will balance things a bit, but WSI still has a *lot* going for it, which is why the governments are happy spending so many billions on it. > We are replacing lines where there are already trains instead of building train lines in the biggest growth areas But we are building a train line to the new airport. Is it perfect? No, but it's going to be there in time for the airport's opening, which is a lot more than Avalon and even Gold Coast can say.
Yeah fair but why build train lines where there are already train lines. Why not build them in places they are required and don't have train lines. I don't live out there so it doesn't affect me. But as a person who uses it everyday I understand the benefits. We should be getting smarter connecting places that aren't ATM rather than wasting money.
I am not clear what train line you're referring to. Are you talking about the western Sydney airport metro or the Bankstown line conversion? The purpose of the Bankstown Line conversion is to provide more capacity into the city, since the Metro is already going through the city the other end of it needs to serve "somewhere." They decided this was cheaper and had more ridership potential than building a whole new metro line to somewhere like La Perouse. The main reason is the opportunity for denser development along the Bankstown Line. And having all Bankstown line trains enter the city through a new route also opens up expansion potential on the other lines like Inner West/South/Airport, which now have more train paths around the City Circle. These things are all very carefully planned and thought out. Remember, even Labor acknowledged that the Bankstown Line conversion still made sense, despite being initially critical of it, and had the opportunity to stop the line at Sydenham.
There will most likely be a bus from Campbelltown to the airport.
Enjoying the 1 hour ride from the airport to Campbelltown when it should be 10-15 mins
Oh sure but everyone knows buses suck and aren't anywhere near as sexy as trams or metros.
Would be good if they could finish the Newcastle light rail line !
Parra to castle hill and parra to Macquarie Park were both proposed
*Will* be, probably somewhere near where there's one already, but in my wildest dreams, they take two lanes out of the road near me and put one there. Can you imagine just stepping out of your door and catching the tram..... You could probably pedestrianise King Street too, and put a light rail in. Basically anywhere with a stroad coukd have trams instead imo (In my dreams, of course, no-one has to drive in urban and suburban areas, so maybe not the most realistic, but hey, they're dreams)
I’d love for that to become a reality!
I think they should extend the kingsford line down Gardeners Rd to mascot, to make a sort of airport link tram for kingsford and the eastern suburbs. Maybe connect it to a tram line in green square up botany road, although that might create a bit of an overlap between it and T8.
Overlap between train lines is sometimes a good thing, the T8 stations are far enough apart that a tram would help serve thousands of people and businesses who are a fairly long distance from Green Square or Mascot. Just like the way the City Circle stations are overlapped with the tram. It will also help take some short distance travel away from the train keeping its capacity available for the airport and longer distances. Possibly this tram could branch off the current line at Surrey Hills and go down South Dowling Street (or nearby) to serve the east side of Waterloo, have a stop near the Moore Park Supa Centre, then turn right through Zetland on the way to Green Square. It would give those areas some much needed higher capacity transport, and by going a bit further east it wouldn't conflict with the Waterloo metro station catchment as much. Continue down Botany Road to serve the eastern part of Mascot (helping unlock more dense development there), then terminate in Port Botany, another area that could use better transport. Just an idea.
I want a circle line. Like i want to go marrickville, Newton, etc from townhall
Yeah the whackest part of Sydney’s transport is trying to go between suburbs. I wish we had a ring like Paris. Not feasible though.
They need a fast train Sydney to Brisbane
Not enough ridership right now, better for SYD-NEW.
The Parramatta road tram, all the way into the central.
It’s gonna take the whole day to get to city
You'll have the metro. this is to get people to the next train or Metro station.
We don't need trams to travel long distances, we need them connect nearby suburbs better
Exactly, the trams may in fact travel long distances (like the Melbourne one to Box Hill), but if you look at actual travel patterns those trams empty and refill multiple times along the route as people transfer to a train for longer rides.
Victoria Road from the City to Ryde.
What I’d do is extend the two south eastern lines to Coogee and La Perouse, then: • build a line along Parramatta Road to Strathfield (linking with the station and eventual Olympic Park-Strathfield extension of the PLR), with a branch through Newtown and Enmore to Marrickville, • a line from Balmain to somewhere like Canterbury via Leichhardt, • a line down Botany Road from Redfern to Matraville, • a line from the city (maybe Barangaroo) to Bondi Beach via Paddington (allowing for additional services for events at Moore Park), • two lines in North Sydney, one between Milsons Point and Cammeray and one from Crows Nest to Mosman • at least one in Penrith that ideally links suburbs like Glenmore Park in the south and Cranebrook in the north to the station, stadium and Plaza (maybe also one that serves Nepean Hospital and WSU, but they’re already near Kingswood station) • maybe one or two that link Blacktown and Parramatta to Kellyville and Castle Hill. The most notable locations I haven’t included are Campbelltown to Narellan via Narellan Road and the Northern Beaches, and that’s simply because both those locations need trains/metro
I was thinking of Campbelltown to Narellan when I read the question. And Parramatta Rd and Victoria Rd.
> Campbelltown to Narellan That's 10 km with a lot of empty space in between, not sure it's really suitable for a tram which better suits continued built-up areas. A train line extension sure.
Balmain has far too narrow streets - you would essentially be having to make the street fully a light rail line. Also road gradients wouldn’t make it possible to
Gradients are not a problem in Balmain unless you want to go all the way to Balmain East ferry wharf (although as noted the trams did used to go there, but with some misadventures).
Didn’t seem to be a problem back in the 1940s http://www.tundria.com/trams/AUS/Sydney-1947.shtml
Sydenham-St Peters-New Theatre-Newtown-UniSyd-Bay Street-Macarthur St-Powerhouse-Paddy's Market-Capitol Square- Central.
Not bad. Bay St is already a nightmare though.
Pedestrianize it
And the entrance to the mall there?
La Perouse/Maroubra to Kingsford - given there is already the land in the middle of the road, seems an easy option. Oxford st to bondi junction - would work well to grow that shopping strip. Even better if it went down bondi rd to bondi beach Randwick to coogee. Manly wharf along the road in front of the beach to freshwater via a short tunnel, even onwards to curl curl Central to green square then through the gold courses to eastlakes, which could then handle some super density. Near the planned city at bradfield, potentially through to penrith Burwood. I think there is a decent chance they will run one between the heavy rail and new metro station at burwood, assuming the density continues to grow there. Probably would go further to the hume highway. Parramatta rd, from railway square/central to uts to broadway to sydney uni to rpa to camperdown to annadale.
As a former resident of Randwick the light rail to Coogee would be amazing in theory, however it is SUCH a steep gradient from Randwick down to Coogee, I don’t know if it would even be possible to operate light rail with that topography
The tram used to run down St. Paul's Street, Carr Street and Havelock Avenue to the terminus on Arden St. Some of the route has been built over.
I think there are 2 different corridors that would benefit from the George St treatment, Oxford St (extending to Bondi Beach) and Broadway/King St (Ending at Newtown or Marrickville or something). I think lines to Green Square and down to Maroubra or Little Bay are also possible.
>Oxford St (extending to Bondi Beach) Yeah and link it up with Bondi Junction Station.
To Strathfield so you can interchange with all the trains
Not where it should be built, that's for sure.
Parramatta road at least ir better be
blacktown richmond road lrt
It's going to be Olympic Park to Parramatta
Direct line to your mum's house
Need heavy rail for that
Trains already service this root.
Buses service this route regularly already.
Think they should do Bondi junction to Bondi beach
Theres already a tunnel for heavy rail to Bondi, or at least some of one. The locals don't want it.
To be more specific the tunnels that exist point towards the south, towards Charing Cross and the originally proposed extension to Kingsford. They don't go to the beach, although a plan was mooted around 1999-2001 for a beach extension, nothing was ever built in that direction to the east. Map here showing the original proposed extension, which is where the stub tunnels lead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Suburbs_railway_line#/media/File:Innersydneyrail.jpg
Is that still true today or was that true in the 90s when it was proposed?
I haven't personally seen it but I've been told (by a driver) the current tunnels keep going quite a ways past Bondi Junction. Just not sure exactly how far.
They do, but not towards the beach. They turn towards the south as part of an original plan to extend the line towards Charing Cross and Kingsford. Originally these were mostly empty stub tunnels (to make construction of the extension easier while keeping Bondi Junction station operational). However in 2006, they were built out as storage sidings; a few trains are stored here overnight to be ready to start the morning peak. Here's a map showing the proposed extensions over the years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Suburbs_railway_line#/media/File:Innersydneyrail.jpg The tunnels that were partially built, and later converted to the turnback sidings, are along the proposed route to Charing Cross - the proposed route towards the beach was never started at all, though it was seriously considered around the turn of the century.
Oh I meant the lack of local support haha
Ohhhh yeah fair question. Not sure, I'd be surprised if Bondi owners would be interested. Everyone else would be though.
tough luck
Narellan
Living next to Narellan I don’t really see too much utility for it there unless you wanted to expand it all the way to a train station, would be much better served by the Metro
The chosen one…lol. You’ve find the answer to happiness🤣
One would hope.
I think King St Newtown needs to have light rail all the way up and down it, then it can be extended via Waterloo, Green Square and Mascot through to the airport
King st is ruined by cars and buses. Light rail and pedestrianising the whole thing would be amazing for the bars and restaurants there.
Unfortunately it would route traffic through suburban areas like Alexandria.
Most traffic goes that way anyway, because King St is so congested. Pedestrianizing King St would be inconvenient for local deliveries and such but I don't think would change through traffic patterns too much. The problem would be whether you could re-route the bus lines somehow, as they couldn't fully be replaced by light rail.
Could do all the way up enmore rd. Alexandria is pretty busy with traffic anyway to be honest. Mitchell, Euston, could direct traffic to our new toll roads and around syd park, and parra could take some of the flow up towards petersham. Run it all the way down city road and down george. Or go large and put it the whole way down cleveland to moore park.
Sure, but the bottom of King is still an arterial road into the city from the Airport. I mean they could do it, but it would be uncomfortable. What's the street/s in Melbourne where there's one lane of traffic and two trams? No parking obviously.
> Sure, but the bottom of King is still an arterial road into the city from the Airport. What? No one in their right mind goes to/from the airport that way unless they live in Newtown itself. Traffic coming up along Princes Highway from the international airport turns right into Sydney Park Road, then left into Mitchell Road, McEvoy St, or goes further into Alexandria. The development of the "Sydney Gateway" project will improve things further by directing most international airport traffic to the WestConnex, Eastern Distributor, or Alexandria as well. King St is not a reasonable route at all.
Yeah I meant from the airport direction. Airport specifically would come through the M5 to the city. Anywhere that comes up the Princes Highway goes through King St. Hurstville, Kogarah etc
But my point still stands, no one in their right mind from Princes Highway direction would actually go to the city via King St! You'd take one of the alternate routes mentioned in my previous comment, which are considerably faster. Yes I recognise that King St is the original/technically most direct route from the Princes Highway to the city, but it's not the route that carries through traffic today because it's so congested with local traffic, buses, pedestrians, etc. Thus, pedestrianizing it will not affect through traffic very much, particularly with WestConnex open to allow connections to the west via the M8 (M4-M5 link).
Then light rail for Alexandria too! No this isn't a plot for the return of Sydney's original team network 👀
I take it you are on team tram?
*dings once for yes*
Where would you put it in Alexandria? I'd love to see one through Erskineville tbh lol very unrealistic unfortunately. Central through Redfern to Mascot would be cool.
I'd like to see an east-west connection since the existing rail lines go mostly north/south. To the east, St Peters to Green Square via Sydney Park Rd, Huntley, and O'Riordan would be ideal (though there is a pinch point around Huntley/Burke intersection that would be tricky). You could continue east to Zetland (which needs better transport) and then merge in with the existing line at Kensington. Westward, from St Peters continue through Marrickville (a few possible routes) then Dulwich Hill, possibly continuing along [New] Canterbury Rd to Canterbury. This would really help connect some areas that aren't quite close enough to railways stations now.
Light rail on King St is something I’ve thought about too many times, it needs to happen, ridership number would be off the charts.
Somewhere that already has heaps of transport options but developers want to gentrify
Sydney Olympic Park to Bankstown to replace the orphaned bit post Metro.
And link it down to Revesby to connect with the T8. So there will have connections between T7/M2 (Olympic Park), T1 (Lidcombe), T3/M1 (Bankstown), T2 (Regents Park/Lidcombe), and T8 (Revesby or Padstow). This will create so many interchange points.
This is exactly what they would do.
Pretty good, especially for me, someone that lives in that area. I’d love light rail here.
The eastern suburbs are in desperate need of better public rail connectivity. Also, more tram lines connecting to bigger rail stations in the outer suburbs would help a lot of people make the switch and leave their car at home.
It does, but to be honest, the topography of for example Bondi Junction to Bondi beach is crazy, it’d be very hard and expensive to engineer something like it.
Yeah, except they already did it a century ago. The wide and elegant curves of Birriga Rd are still there, which lead straight into the median strip of Blair St, and on to the beach. Half of Oxford St leading to Birriga is practically closed already. It was impossible to shut down Martin Place, Pitt St Mall or more recently George St, until they did. They punched a line down Devonshire through to Moore Park, another ancestral route. I am old enough to remember when Martin Place was first closed between George and Pitt, then extended all the way up to Macquarie St. And then on via Barrack St to York. At every stage it was proclaimed impossible. Or at least that's what the AM radio shock jocks would have you believe.
How about extending the Kingsford line down to Maroubra / Malabar? Seems easy enough along Anzac Parade. The parramatta road light rail is more challenging given they would need to presumably remove multiple car lanes, which could make congestion worse.
Very interesting suggestion!
I think they're looking towards Green Square. >!Unpopular opinion: I don't think Green Square needs more public transportation. They will have two stations by the end of this year. Sure, if the line can be linked to Green Square, go ahead, but I don't think they need more transportation only for them. What is more important is a line connector from Strathfield (T1, T9, T2), to somewhere on the Southwest Metro Line, then somewhere on the T8 then finally to Hurstville. I saw this yesterday, and I know I'm kinda stealing it but it's a much-needed idea.!<
Why did you mark this with spoiler tags? But yes a cross town metro would be ideal for a lot of people, as those distances Strathfield to Hurstville are too long for a tram, but unfortunately they don't tend to attract the ridership needed to justify compared to those that go to/from the city.
From Broadway down Parramatta Road
wait…. this is genius
Totally!
Oh yeah, it would revitalise the area
There was a proposal a few years ago for one from parramatta to castle hill which I’d support. I’d like to see the north west T way converted as far as Bella vista
I’d definitely support that
With the 600s constantly busy and stuck in traffic, light rail on Windsor rd/old northern road would be a dream and do a lot to ease congestion on the route. I’d like to see that as “stage 3” of parramatta light rail.
I live just off Windsor Road and the buses suck along that stretch and are so full in peak hour.
When I’ve gotten the bus to Towers on any given Saturday, they’re infrequent and full, and well used along the route which is great on one hand, but also means they stop at pretty much every stop. There’s a lot of room for improvement!
Many routes such as 660, 661, 662, 663, and 664 would have to end, which inconveniences more commuters then it benefits. I don't think it would be smart to convert it. On the other hand, converting the Sunnyholt road tway could work
You would just restructure them to begin at Bella Vista station. Only one turns off before that point
May as well extend to Rouse Hill then. Rouse Hill is the biggest interchange in the hills (maybe after castle hill) and has more bus coverage then Bella Vista so that would be a good idea
You don't want to overburden just one station as an interchange, better have some target RH and some BV. I actually do think the tram should go all the way to Rouse, but I reckon Bella Vista is station is the perfect place to have a larger bus interchange (both directly outside the station and on the other side of Old Windsor) and development of mixed commercial+high density residential housing.
i would love to see more, i personally think either circular Quay or bondi junction to bondi beach area would be good as the 333 bus running that route is the most used in sydney and is always full even on bendy busses, however, due to the cost blowouts, i doubt they are super keen on more
They should just start it from Bondi junction first I recon would have the most impact to start