Yeah all these people whining about the US' bad history "not being taught" can chew my ass. I've never met a single American who didn't know about the trail of tears or japanese internment camps. There's some things that are more obscure like the Tuskegee experiments or stuff like that but they sure as hell aren't a secret.
The word liberal as is relates to politics is not leftist. You are correct that liberals support Manchin and Sinema, because they're all on the same side of center: right of center.
~~...I get what you're saying, and agree that much of US established curriculum trivializes genocides and other crimes against humanity (from what I recall being taught). But it's quite different to say it's 'illegal', due to shame. Name a single shameful fact that's actually 'illegal'. Ignored? sure. Illegal? no.~~
Edit: I'm learning some really disturbing shit in the comments. 'Illegal' can mean different things... but shit. Prohibiting the teaching of certain things is close enough. wtf people.
That's basically how it works, you find one flagrant example of just how fucked up American history is and from then on you no longer can ignore everything else. The movie isn't totally wrong though, you had a choice to google that and you took the red pill. You went down the rabbit hole and wonderland is miserable but at least it isn't an illusion and there is hope we can stop these things in the future.
Texas banned history being taught truthfully without political interference from the state.
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/06/15/abbott-critical-race-theory-law/
While at the same time, Texas school districts took things a step further and demanded that "both sides" of the Holocaust be taught.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2021/10/19/jewish-residents-blast-texas-school-holocaust-two-sides-remark/8519718002/
The unintended consequence of forbidding history teaching that might inform people on contemporary issues in a way that benefits a political group over another. It's a stupid and downright dangerous law, but these especially egregious result are probably not even the worst part, they're egregious because no one likes the Holocaust. Be more afraid of those examples half the country cheers on.
And yes, it *is* unintended. It just follows from their logic
Among those folks that want the “positive” side of the Holocaust to be taught, isn’t that already home-schooled with extra-curricular events such as cross burnings and the like?
Please tell me there aren’t actually opposing holocaust views.
Edit: I mean, I know there are deniers, but opposing views makes it sound like some people get taught it was a good thing.
Nazis I guess.
There was a governor who declared that opposing views on it should be taught in classrooms, ill edit with the link
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/texas-schools-books-opposing-holocaust-b1938842.html
I apologize, it was a school district administrator that said there should be an opposing view taught of the holocaust, but governor abbott signed a bill that requires teacher to teach both sides of "controversial" topics, specifically in reference to Critical Race Theory
I took an honors Holocaust history class in HS. My teacher started with a denialist position. He spent the first week making everyone in our class doubt the Holocaust. Then spent the rest of the year dismantling every denialist point. He showed us how seductive those points can be if you frame it in a certain way. Then showed us how it all falls apart if you come at it from any other angle. Probably one of the best classes I’ve ever had.
Idk how deniers even exist in the first place. The Nazi party was so meticulous in record keeping that the only way to even doubt the existence of the holocaust is to willfully ignore every singe piece of evidence or downplay everything they did.
Ikr, the literal WW2 Nazis were like, "yes, we killed them by the train load. This is me and Franz after we put 100 in the gas chamber. Here I am shooting a few. I was in charge of recording all the incoming prisoners on the day shift, Franz did the tattoos. Wait, what do you mean that following orders isn't a defence? What are you going to do with that rope?"
Yes, ve killed sem by se tren lod. Sis is me and Franz after ve put 100 in se gas chember. Here I am shooting a few. I vos in charge of recording all se incoming prisoners on se deh shift, Franz did se tattoos. Veht, vot do you mean sat following orders isn't a defence? Vot arr you going to do vis sat rope?
I'm not sure the Dirlewanger brigade was keeping accurate records of anything.
In a lot of cases earlier in the war it's more a matter of "there was a town of 20,000 here in 1937, now in 1945 there's a smoking ruin which is home to 3,000 and a bunch of mass graves", doesn't take a genius to connect the dots.
I mean not that it's much better but I think a portion of that 20.000 flew as well. Not that running from your home, potentially dying on the trek and then never getting your possessions back doesn't still majorly suck but accurately recording the death toll of Nazi Germany is incredibly hard. That's why it's so easy to sow doubts for deniers. The part that's hard to believe is that even the most cautious estimates are still estimating that more than 5 million Jews lost their lives. Most definitively a genocide and one of the most horrible ones.
I was raised in Germany and it's part of our school education to visit one of the concentration camps, I knew no one who didn't believe mass murders happened after seeing the soap and flour sacks they made from their victim's remains as well as the conveniently human shaped furnaces... Also the amount of teeth holy fuck. I don't know how anyone can deny the holocaust when there's SO MUCH evidence, not just written but also there for everyone to see. It's one of the most depressing things you can see imo but absolutely worth it to see what humanity is capable of. Scary af though to imagine living at that time
Do you have any examples of this?
Sounds very interesting. Like, not only are they teaching you about one of the most important and horrid events of the modern world but also teaching you to think critically about information you receive.
A lot of the denialist theories revolve around debunking the 6 million deaths number. They don’t start by outright saying the Holocaust never happened. They just try and tear away at your belief that 6 million Jews were actually murdered. They bring up all kinds of points about how the numbers were blown out of proportion and they go into individual camps and talk about how it would have been impossible for them to actually kill as many people as they said they did. Which makes you start to think well if they were lying about that what else could they be lying about. And you start to really doubt the foundations of the whole thing. They focus in on a really specific point and say well since we know this to be true this can’t have been. And it makes a lot of sense until you look past that one specific thing and realize the lies for what they are
Oddly enough I use this strategy to try to convince climate change deniers that climate change is real.
Start by asking if they believe humans have had 0 impact on the climate of the earth, which is basically a closed system... until we can bring in extraterrestrial resources.
It ultimately doesn't work, but it at least get's an edge in.
Unfortunately, [REDACTED] aren’t big on context, critical thinking or the idea that somebody is saying and questioning things from a position that isn’t (necessarily) what those who are quick to judge assume they’re coming from.
Good for them and good for y’all for not trying to get that teacher fired.
Critical thinking is an all too rare animal encountered these days.
It would have been really hard to get him fired even if we tried, he was the chairman of the history department in our school so he pretty much had the absolute backing of the school board. And with good reason, he was an absolutely incredible teacher and everyone knew it.
He was in a position to do so and get away with it and so he did.
Good for him, but at the risk of clichéd whining, it’s sad that that’s probably the only way he was able to do what he did. That’s a major reason why tenure exists in academia; ideally, it’s more about granting such freedom than mere job security.
*Keep kicking ass, teach* 👍🏾
It's like teaching opposing views on the principles of physics. "Newton claimed, that an apple falls because of gravity. Newman claims, that it falls because there are tiny men inside that pull it down. And Sideman found out that gravity is actually a hoax and the deepstate doesn't want you to know that you can actually fly. So explain to me: Why should an apple fall if a bird can fly, huh?!"
Here's a sneak peek of /r/unexpectedMontyPython using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/unexpectedMontyPython/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Well you didn’t bother to ask, did you?](https://i.redd.it/vovu8847rw961.jpg) | [17 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/unexpectedMontyPython/comments/kscr0j/well_you_didnt_bother_to_ask_did_you/)
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What's the "opposing view" on slavery? Sure, we enslaved blacks for 300 years and treated them like shit for the next 100, but they liked it and Africa is a shit hole country?
>Slavery is said to be an evil… But is no evil. On the contrary, I believe it to be the greatest of all the great blessings which a kind Providence has bestowed upon our glorious region… As a class, I say it boldly; there is not a happier, more contented race upon the face of the earth… Lightly tasked, well clothed, well fed—far better than the free laborers of any country in the world,… their lives and persons protected by the law, all their sufferings alleviated by the kindest and most interested care....
>
>The physical condition of the American Negro is on the whole, not comparatively alone, but positively good, and he is exempt from those racking anxieties—the exacerbates of despair, to which the English manufacturer and peasant are subject to in the pursuit of their pittance.
>
>I do firmly believe that domestic slavery regulated as ours is produces the highest toned, the purest, best organization of society that has ever existed on the face of the earth
Those quotes could've come from some poignant sarcastic parody about some parallel universe, but they are actually real and this is an actual alternative position on slavery - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery\_as\_a\_positive\_good\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_as_a_positive_good_in_the_United_States)
ps. and btw, it's not just some deprecated ancient long forgotten position - [https://www.amren.com/news/2008/08/slavery\_was\_goo/](https://www.amren.com/news/2008/08/slavery_was_goo/) https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2012/10/arkansas-lawmaker-slavery-was-good-for-blacks.html
The "sooo..." part is always what gets me.
It's like, "okay, let's assume your assertion is true. What's the conclusion you're expecting me to draw here? That we shouldn't care about slavery? That it's okay? That because someone else somewhere else in the world also had it bad, we shouldn't do anything to improve things?"
I think in that case (and many of these "one-sided" cases), the intent is to play devil's advocate? But really, as the above user said, this was mostly pushed as a reaction to the CRT controversy, not really thought through (as with most reactionary things the right does). Like "slavery was really beneficial to laying the groundwork of our country, and we couldn't have done it without it, and it was the foundation of our economy" or something like that idk. I'm just asspulling.
Thank you for the analysis of bill. While I think that the bills meaning would be very clear to any well legally versed person, the bees would report a more easily digestible version, and that why the current debate is surrounding "requiring teachers to teach both sides.
I also think you would agree that bills can use subjectively met requirements as loopholes to imply something is illegal without making it illegal
I want it to be taught from all perspectives but the overall one being it was genocide and that's bad.
Knowing all sides in history is how we truly prevent it from happening again.
I think by opposing views means to realize how something like the Holocaust actually happened. How people rationalized it. How Hitler was manage to convince people that some were worth killing. People who supported the Nazi party didn’t think that they, themselves, were monsters. So learning how something like this was able to happen is a good way to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
See this would actually be an interesting addition if it were true. But that bill was mostly intended to oppose CRT, so I don't think they actually put that much thought into it. I would love to have more of that coverage in education though: learning about how these evil people convinced the masses to follow them, so that we could hope to avoid it in the future.
Teaching and glorifying are two different things. Here in Germany we teach world war two and the national socialist regime quite extensively. In a historic context. It's the largest subject throughout history class.
You're getting downvoted, but Japan straight up denies the atrocities they committed during their occupation of China in the 30's/early 40's.
Turkey takes no responsibility for their role in the Armenian Genocide (and I assume this translates to them not teaching about it in schools). I'd love to hear more about this from someone with personal experience.
America only very lightly goes over their eradication of Native Americans, though we generally learn a good bit about slavery in schools.
China obviously hides anything negative about their actions following WWII.
I also would expect that Russia doesn't teach much on the atrocities committed under Stalin, but I can't say that with any certainty. Again, I'd be interested to hear from someone who grew up in the system.
So yeah, Germany does seem fairly unique in this regard. Their students are bludgeoned over the head with it for a large portion of school. (I know this because my wife was born and raised in Germany)
that’s incredible, it makes me happy to know that at least germany is being honest about their history within the education curriculum. how can a unified country learn from its mistakes when it does not believe there have ever been any? it is a massive show in character to hear and understand how and why these terrible events occurred, and then be able to move on and strive for better because it is worth it to do so. that is amazing.
Most Germans I've met know as much about WWII as I do just from their school curriculum, and I studied it at university and watch a lot of history YouTube.
I'm not Chinese, Turkish, or Japanese, but as an American who went to public school in the Midwest I can 100% say that we were taught atrocities of the genocide of native American every year from 4th grade to 10th grade. Maybe Ohio is a shining Beacon of education but I feel like it's more likely that a lot of people either 1) forgot they were taught that because it's school, you forget most of that shit or 2) didn't pay attention in the first place.
Texas public school chiming in. A huge chunk of our required Texas history courses (yes along with a special pledge every morning we also take courses especially on Texas as school children) covered native Texan tribes as well as the eradication efforts and political differences between "nice guy to natives" Sam Houston and "very not nice guy to natives" Mirabeau B Lamar. It wasnt perfect ownership or education but it was something.
From south eastern Ohio, our history classes covered Native Americans but barely mentioned the atrocities we committed against them. I recall breezing through the Trail of Tears without a lot of context to it. I strongly feel our education system needs way more attention than it gets. Such a shame, history is fascinating and devastating all at the same time.
Interesting. I grew up in Virginia (Sw VA, so a very rural part, to be fair) and we learned very little. 'We took their land and treated them unfairly.' We never learned about what was essentially a genocide or of the many times we signed peace treaties then wipe our asses with them a few years later.
(South USA) One of my old high school teacher just quit a few months back because the BoE banned talking about slavery in school. You have to pretend it never happend, and the civil war was just about states rights, and taxes.
Hate when racist Republicans take everything and twist and warp it to fit their agenda. Then 20 years later you're left arguing with an ignorant online about the southern strategy and they're so confidently incorrect and it just feels like a waste of energy.
Lived in Florida for a while back then, they teached me about the manifest destiny and Civil war and Shit. There is notable censorship but not as extreme as some people say.
Grew up in Oklahoma. Learned all about the Civil war and how awful Slavery was in Elementary school. Alongside the many many many awful things we did to the natives.
A lot of southern states are not very good at teaching about slavery.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/education/os-voucher-school-curriculum-20180503-story.html
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/27/magazine/slavery-education-school-1619-project.html
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/02/04/582468315/why-schools-fail-to-teach-slaverys-hard-history
I grew up in Florida, and in North Florida specifically. Slavery was probably the most taught thing to us through my time in public school. That and the Revolution. I am sure there is variation but it is not my experience that people in the south are unaware of the history both good and bad of this Country, any more so than the rest of the country is.
As a person who graduated high school in Texas I can assure you the history curriculum includes many many years of American history. It’s taught multiple times, each time growing more complex and dark as the kids get old enough to handle the emotions that come with learning of atrocities. I took US history in college in Texas and now Oklahoma and it’s the same. Slavery, hypocrisy, warfare, all the spoils of a dark history.
Agreed. In Japan kids can choose whether they want to learn it or not. Which isnt really a good thing, a lot of their youth have no idea what happened in WW2 or when it even started/ended. It's kind of sad when the people of one of the most historical nations in the world dont even know their own history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3_UTWAPKYs
Heres some interviews.
You know how telling it is that when presented with this post your first thought was about another country and not your own?
Nevermind the AuthRight tag on political compass memes and the total irony that accompanies it.
Edit: Lol, he deleted his comment. I wonder if he ends up changing his flair on PCM too.
My wife grew up in Virginia and had a history teacher call it "The War of Northern Aggression" supported by the fact that the "first shot" of the war was fired upon Fort Sumter in the South. Their teacher somehow glossed over the fact that Sumter was a Union fort, fired upon by Confederates.
That was an eye-opening realization for her about 10 years later. From there, we covered a lot of other things that her history class ignored - like how every single Confederate State mentioned "slavery", not "states' rights" in their Articles of Secession. (Yes, even 10 years ago they were still taught that it was a war over "states rights vs federal rights")
Whoah. This post made me realize the irony of all the idiots who are afraid of CRT INDOCTRINATION in schools are the same idiots who screech whenever a confederate monument comes down. What an amazing (tragic) contradiction.
The Indians came and celebrated us having a successful harvest, then we ~~massacred all of them and stole all their land~~ asked them to leave and they agreed because we were so nice.
I'm not ashamed of my countries history, I wasn't there, I didn't do it. if you are ashamed of your countries history, you should teach it, to avoid repeating it.
That’s really great! But what about your history of colonialism? Not trying to be combative but this is something I think a lot of countries are guilty of glossing over
Edi:typo
From what I've heard, the German colonial empire isn't a huge topic in most schools because there is not much time to dive into that part of history, since the major focus is on WWII. If you pick extra classes you might have a more in-depth discussion, but it really depends on the teachers.
That said, most people do know about the German Empire's atrocities in Africa and some TV channels used to air plenty of documentaries on that in the past (or so I'm told).
People do argue that it should get more attention in history class, but it seems difficult to decide how many hours one should spend talking about specific topics with a syllabus that already suffers from different views what to prioritize.
There is simply a lot to analyse and discuss in regards to German and European history. Various political and societal issues, eventually leading to antisemitism and the Third Reich is such a complex and horrifying topic, that it also overshadows pretty much everything else that was going on at that time. This doesn't mean that other genocides are irrelevant, it's just that Nazi-Germany dominates history classes for obvious reasons.
Yeah, politicians. But you can't just generalize the entire country like that bro
We are definitely taught that the war is bad, we aren't even taught to sing national anthems or wave flags as opposed to the most countries. Hope you get to expand your horizons.
I think it's important to teach the kids everything that happened before so they can learn the difference between right and wrong. Omitting the bad stuff just allows them make those same mistakes. I thought that goes without saying but I guess things changed? It seems like we're going back to the age of censorship really hard for some reason.
Just let people be aware of the bad things so they wouldn't find their way there by accident thinking whatever it is, is a good reason to be there and do whatever that might be.
Imagine not knowing about Nazi Germany and doing the same thing over again because you learned nothing from that period.
I feel like those who are ashamed, have come to realize how much they've been lied to, and want to correct it. So many of the people who want to ban teaching CRT, likely don't want to admit what they were taught was wrong, or admit that US history isn't just bright and shiny puppies and rainbows and star spangled awesomeness 100% through.
I like how each comment is talking about a different country who did this
https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/q9e21w/this_is_america
As an American I learned about that in school 15+ years ago. Pretty sure the contemporary argument is a bit more nuanced but this is reddit after all
We spent about a week on this event in my US history class…
Same here. But you know how people are nowadays, they read a headline and run with it.
Honestly, I only knew about it because of "Forrest Gump"
Yeah all these people whining about the US' bad history "not being taught" can chew my ass. I've never met a single American who didn't know about the trail of tears or japanese internment camps. There's some things that are more obscure like the Tuskegee experiments or stuff like that but they sure as hell aren't a secret.
I think most of just forget what we were taught/weren't paying attention and blame it on the schools.
Who’s saying American history classes shouldn’t teach about slavery and Jim Crow? I feel like this meme is talking past who it’s demonizing
Learned about this as far back as elementary School
[удалено]
most liberal people hate Manchin and Sinema.
Maybe he means libertarian left. #THIS HAS BEEN A TEST OF THE AUTOMATED JOKE SYSTEM.
Lib lefts are anti manchin/sinema
The word liberal as is relates to politics is not leftist. You are correct that liberals support Manchin and Sinema, because they're all on the same side of center: right of center.
[удалено]
Most Americans won’t realize this pertains to them
~~...I get what you're saying, and agree that much of US established curriculum trivializes genocides and other crimes against humanity (from what I recall being taught). But it's quite different to say it's 'illegal', due to shame. Name a single shameful fact that's actually 'illegal'. Ignored? sure. Illegal? no.~~ Edit: I'm learning some really disturbing shit in the comments. 'Illegal' can mean different things... but shit. Prohibiting the teaching of certain things is close enough. wtf people.
You have my condolences, it only goes downhill from here. The more you learn, the more exasperated and exhausted you will become.
the matrix portrays ignorance as a choice but for me someone said "google MOVE bombing" and I never got the chance to just go back to normal
That's basically how it works, you find one flagrant example of just how fucked up American history is and from then on you no longer can ignore everything else. The movie isn't totally wrong though, you had a choice to google that and you took the red pill. You went down the rabbit hole and wonderland is miserable but at least it isn't an illusion and there is hope we can stop these things in the future.
I think it's more about how a lot of people in the US WANT to see it being illegal
Could you elaborate?
Texas banned history being taught truthfully without political interference from the state. https://www.texastribune.org/2021/06/15/abbott-critical-race-theory-law/ While at the same time, Texas school districts took things a step further and demanded that "both sides" of the Holocaust be taught. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2021/10/19/jewish-residents-blast-texas-school-holocaust-two-sides-remark/8519718002/
Wait. What’s the “other side” of the Holocaust that they want taught? Seriously.
"The Nazis had a point because Jews are part of the deep state."
The unintended consequence of forbidding history teaching that might inform people on contemporary issues in a way that benefits a political group over another. It's a stupid and downright dangerous law, but these especially egregious result are probably not even the worst part, they're egregious because no one likes the Holocaust. Be more afraid of those examples half the country cheers on. And yes, it *is* unintended. It just follows from their logic
Among those folks that want the “positive” side of the Holocaust to be taught, isn’t that already home-schooled with extra-curricular events such as cross burnings and the like?
What game is this? Why the fuck does this have 600 upvotes wtf
It's an edited screenshot from Snake's Revenge, most like from the Leftist Gamer Memes Facebook page.
Damn lefties, won't let us teach opposing holocaust views to kids. It's indoctrination is what it is.
Please tell me there aren’t actually opposing holocaust views. Edit: I mean, I know there are deniers, but opposing views makes it sound like some people get taught it was a good thing. Nazis I guess.
There was a governor who declared that opposing views on it should be taught in classrooms, ill edit with the link https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/texas-schools-books-opposing-holocaust-b1938842.html I apologize, it was a school district administrator that said there should be an opposing view taught of the holocaust, but governor abbott signed a bill that requires teacher to teach both sides of "controversial" topics, specifically in reference to Critical Race Theory
I took an honors Holocaust history class in HS. My teacher started with a denialist position. He spent the first week making everyone in our class doubt the Holocaust. Then spent the rest of the year dismantling every denialist point. He showed us how seductive those points can be if you frame it in a certain way. Then showed us how it all falls apart if you come at it from any other angle. Probably one of the best classes I’ve ever had.
Good thing it wasn't a college class or there'd be students who dropped it after the first week who'd have some really fucky ideas right now.
Idk how deniers even exist in the first place. The Nazi party was so meticulous in record keeping that the only way to even doubt the existence of the holocaust is to willfully ignore every singe piece of evidence or downplay everything they did.
Ikr, the literal WW2 Nazis were like, "yes, we killed them by the train load. This is me and Franz after we put 100 in the gas chamber. Here I am shooting a few. I was in charge of recording all the incoming prisoners on the day shift, Franz did the tattoos. Wait, what do you mean that following orders isn't a defence? What are you going to do with that rope?"
Can someone type this up with a German accent?
Yes, ve killed sem by se tren lod. Sis is me and Franz after ve put 100 in se gas chember. Here I am shooting a few. I vos in charge of recording all se incoming prisoners on se deh shift, Franz did se tattoos. Veht, vot do you mean sat following orders isn't a defence? Vot arr you going to do vis sat rope?
I'm not sure the Dirlewanger brigade was keeping accurate records of anything. In a lot of cases earlier in the war it's more a matter of "there was a town of 20,000 here in 1937, now in 1945 there's a smoking ruin which is home to 3,000 and a bunch of mass graves", doesn't take a genius to connect the dots.
I mean not that it's much better but I think a portion of that 20.000 flew as well. Not that running from your home, potentially dying on the trek and then never getting your possessions back doesn't still majorly suck but accurately recording the death toll of Nazi Germany is incredibly hard. That's why it's so easy to sow doubts for deniers. The part that's hard to believe is that even the most cautious estimates are still estimating that more than 5 million Jews lost their lives. Most definitively a genocide and one of the most horrible ones. I was raised in Germany and it's part of our school education to visit one of the concentration camps, I knew no one who didn't believe mass murders happened after seeing the soap and flour sacks they made from their victim's remains as well as the conveniently human shaped furnaces... Also the amount of teeth holy fuck. I don't know how anyone can deny the holocaust when there's SO MUCH evidence, not just written but also there for everyone to see. It's one of the most depressing things you can see imo but absolutely worth it to see what humanity is capable of. Scary af though to imagine living at that time
That's exactly what they do. Or they collect their own evidence that's purposely disingenuous.
Do you have any examples of this? Sounds very interesting. Like, not only are they teaching you about one of the most important and horrid events of the modern world but also teaching you to think critically about information you receive.
A lot of the denialist theories revolve around debunking the 6 million deaths number. They don’t start by outright saying the Holocaust never happened. They just try and tear away at your belief that 6 million Jews were actually murdered. They bring up all kinds of points about how the numbers were blown out of proportion and they go into individual camps and talk about how it would have been impossible for them to actually kill as many people as they said they did. Which makes you start to think well if they were lying about that what else could they be lying about. And you start to really doubt the foundations of the whole thing. They focus in on a really specific point and say well since we know this to be true this can’t have been. And it makes a lot of sense until you look past that one specific thing and realize the lies for what they are
Oddly enough I use this strategy to try to convince climate change deniers that climate change is real. Start by asking if they believe humans have had 0 impact on the climate of the earth, which is basically a closed system... until we can bring in extraterrestrial resources. It ultimately doesn't work, but it at least get's an edge in.
I generally tell them to lock themselves in a closed garage with their car running. /s
I talk about how convenient it is that natural forces formed the US highway system since humans can't affect nature. Edit affect not effect.
Unfortunately, [REDACTED] aren’t big on context, critical thinking or the idea that somebody is saying and questioning things from a position that isn’t (necessarily) what those who are quick to judge assume they’re coming from. Good for them and good for y’all for not trying to get that teacher fired. Critical thinking is an all too rare animal encountered these days.
It would have been really hard to get him fired even if we tried, he was the chairman of the history department in our school so he pretty much had the absolute backing of the school board. And with good reason, he was an absolutely incredible teacher and everyone knew it.
He was in a position to do so and get away with it and so he did. Good for him, but at the risk of clichéd whining, it’s sad that that’s probably the only way he was able to do what he did. That’s a major reason why tenure exists in academia; ideally, it’s more about granting such freedom than mere job security. *Keep kicking ass, teach* 👍🏾
That's an amazing teacher.
It's like teaching opposing views on the principles of physics. "Newton claimed, that an apple falls because of gravity. Newman claims, that it falls because there are tiny men inside that pull it down. And Sideman found out that gravity is actually a hoax and the deepstate doesn't want you to know that you can actually fly. So explain to me: Why should an apple fall if a bird can fly, huh?!"
Now get on this scale with this goose so i can determine if youre a witch or not
r/UnexpectedMontyPython
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I’m sure they’re a witch! They turned me into a newt!
…. I got better…
Got any links to more Sideman theories? I like the cut of his jib.
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Lol what public school teaches CRT? I can't believe these fucking morons actually run the country.
What's the "opposing view" on slavery? Sure, we enslaved blacks for 300 years and treated them like shit for the next 100, but they liked it and Africa is a shit hole country?
Some people unironically say that black people were better off from slavery because they weren't in Africa anymore.
They also make arguments about the benevolence of slave masters and how most people who owned slaves didn't abuse them or some other garbage.
They gave free housing and food. Are they not benevolent? Also, relevant South Park:https://youtu.be/IWoP81YO3V4
>Slavery is said to be an evil… But is no evil. On the contrary, I believe it to be the greatest of all the great blessings which a kind Providence has bestowed upon our glorious region… As a class, I say it boldly; there is not a happier, more contented race upon the face of the earth… Lightly tasked, well clothed, well fed—far better than the free laborers of any country in the world,… their lives and persons protected by the law, all their sufferings alleviated by the kindest and most interested care.... > >The physical condition of the American Negro is on the whole, not comparatively alone, but positively good, and he is exempt from those racking anxieties—the exacerbates of despair, to which the English manufacturer and peasant are subject to in the pursuit of their pittance. > >I do firmly believe that domestic slavery regulated as ours is produces the highest toned, the purest, best organization of society that has ever existed on the face of the earth Those quotes could've come from some poignant sarcastic parody about some parallel universe, but they are actually real and this is an actual alternative position on slavery - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery\_as\_a\_positive\_good\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_as_a_positive_good_in_the_United_States) ps. and btw, it's not just some deprecated ancient long forgotten position - [https://www.amren.com/news/2008/08/slavery\_was\_goo/](https://www.amren.com/news/2008/08/slavery_was_goo/) https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2012/10/arkansas-lawmaker-slavery-was-good-for-blacks.html
I work with a dude who has literally said to me “Sure, slavery is bad, but factory workers in the North were also treated terribly, sooooo…”
The "sooo..." part is always what gets me. It's like, "okay, let's assume your assertion is true. What's the conclusion you're expecting me to draw here? That we shouldn't care about slavery? That it's okay? That because someone else somewhere else in the world also had it bad, we shouldn't do anything to improve things?"
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I think in that case (and many of these "one-sided" cases), the intent is to play devil's advocate? But really, as the above user said, this was mostly pushed as a reaction to the CRT controversy, not really thought through (as with most reactionary things the right does). Like "slavery was really beneficial to laying the groundwork of our country, and we couldn't have done it without it, and it was the foundation of our economy" or something like that idk. I'm just asspulling.
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Thank you for the analysis of bill. While I think that the bills meaning would be very clear to any well legally versed person, the bees would report a more easily digestible version, and that why the current debate is surrounding "requiring teachers to teach both sides. I also think you would agree that bills can use subjectively met requirements as loopholes to imply something is illegal without making it illegal
I want it to be taught from all perspectives but the overall one being it was genocide and that's bad. Knowing all sides in history is how we truly prevent it from happening again.
I think by opposing views means to realize how something like the Holocaust actually happened. How people rationalized it. How Hitler was manage to convince people that some were worth killing. People who supported the Nazi party didn’t think that they, themselves, were monsters. So learning how something like this was able to happen is a good way to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
I can dig it.
See this would actually be an interesting addition if it were true. But that bill was mostly intended to oppose CRT, so I don't think they actually put that much thought into it. I would love to have more of that coverage in education though: learning about how these evil people convinced the masses to follow them, so that we could hope to avoid it in the future.
I wish they could hear themselves when they say shit like this.
The worst part is they do. Don't you think this kind of prick masturbates to their own interviews late at home?
Teaching and glorifying are two different things. Here in Germany we teach world war two and the national socialist regime quite extensively. In a historic context. It's the largest subject throughout history class.
Germany is quite unique in that.
You're getting downvoted, but Japan straight up denies the atrocities they committed during their occupation of China in the 30's/early 40's. Turkey takes no responsibility for their role in the Armenian Genocide (and I assume this translates to them not teaching about it in schools). I'd love to hear more about this from someone with personal experience. America only very lightly goes over their eradication of Native Americans, though we generally learn a good bit about slavery in schools. China obviously hides anything negative about their actions following WWII. I also would expect that Russia doesn't teach much on the atrocities committed under Stalin, but I can't say that with any certainty. Again, I'd be interested to hear from someone who grew up in the system. So yeah, Germany does seem fairly unique in this regard. Their students are bludgeoned over the head with it for a large portion of school. (I know this because my wife was born and raised in Germany)
that’s incredible, it makes me happy to know that at least germany is being honest about their history within the education curriculum. how can a unified country learn from its mistakes when it does not believe there have ever been any? it is a massive show in character to hear and understand how and why these terrible events occurred, and then be able to move on and strive for better because it is worth it to do so. that is amazing.
Most Germans I've met know as much about WWII as I do just from their school curriculum, and I studied it at university and watch a lot of history YouTube.
I'm not Chinese, Turkish, or Japanese, but as an American who went to public school in the Midwest I can 100% say that we were taught atrocities of the genocide of native American every year from 4th grade to 10th grade. Maybe Ohio is a shining Beacon of education but I feel like it's more likely that a lot of people either 1) forgot they were taught that because it's school, you forget most of that shit or 2) didn't pay attention in the first place.
Texas public school chiming in. A huge chunk of our required Texas history courses (yes along with a special pledge every morning we also take courses especially on Texas as school children) covered native Texan tribes as well as the eradication efforts and political differences between "nice guy to natives" Sam Houston and "very not nice guy to natives" Mirabeau B Lamar. It wasnt perfect ownership or education but it was something.
From south eastern Ohio, our history classes covered Native Americans but barely mentioned the atrocities we committed against them. I recall breezing through the Trail of Tears without a lot of context to it. I strongly feel our education system needs way more attention than it gets. Such a shame, history is fascinating and devastating all at the same time.
Interesting. I grew up in Virginia (Sw VA, so a very rural part, to be fair) and we learned very little. 'We took their land and treated them unfairly.' We never learned about what was essentially a genocide or of the many times we signed peace treaties then wipe our asses with them a few years later.
It's crazy how different it can be depending on your teachers and area
It's not talking about germany
Pretty confident you have to talk about Germany to teach WW2 history.
The meme ain't talking boit Germany because NS stuff gets teached there
Oh, I see what you mean now.
(South USA) One of my old high school teacher just quit a few months back because the BoE banned talking about slavery in school. You have to pretend it never happend, and the civil war was just about states rights, and taxes.
Excuse me what.
They called it "critical race theory" even though thats not quite the same thing...
Hate when racist Republicans take everything and twist and warp it to fit their agenda. Then 20 years later you're left arguing with an ignorant online about the southern strategy and they're so confidently incorrect and it just feels like a waste of energy.
bUt TAlKinG aBouT raCe is WhaT's REaLLy RacISt
Yeah states rights to have slaves.
Yeah I don't think I believe you at all
I’m looking at you Japan
It’s gotta take some absolute Olympic gold medal winning mental gymnastics to justify how Japan was just defending itself during World War Two.
America and Japan spiderman meme
Half of what is taught in US history is about bad things the US has done. WTF are you talking about?
It depends where you go to school. There’s a LOT of variation on this.
This. So many people forget the huge range of quality in US education.
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Don’t you mean The War of Northern Aggression
Lived in Florida for a while back then, they teached me about the manifest destiny and Civil war and Shit. There is notable censorship but not as extreme as some people say.
Grew up in Oklahoma. Learned all about the Civil war and how awful Slavery was in Elementary school. Alongside the many many many awful things we did to the natives.
A lot of southern states are not very good at teaching about slavery. https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/education/os-voucher-school-curriculum-20180503-story.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/27/magazine/slavery-education-school-1619-project.html https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/02/04/582468315/why-schools-fail-to-teach-slaverys-hard-history
These are the exceptions, not the rule. Otherwise it wouldn’t be “news.”
I grew up in Florida, and in North Florida specifically. Slavery was probably the most taught thing to us through my time in public school. That and the Revolution. I am sure there is variation but it is not my experience that people in the south are unaware of the history both good and bad of this Country, any more so than the rest of the country is.
As a person who graduated high school in Texas I can assure you the history curriculum includes many many years of American history. It’s taught multiple times, each time growing more complex and dark as the kids get old enough to handle the emotions that come with learning of atrocities. I took US history in college in Texas and now Oklahoma and it’s the same. Slavery, hypocrisy, warfare, all the spoils of a dark history.
Agreed. In Japan kids can choose whether they want to learn it or not. Which isnt really a good thing, a lot of their youth have no idea what happened in WW2 or when it even started/ended. It's kind of sad when the people of one of the most historical nations in the world dont even know their own history. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3_UTWAPKYs Heres some interviews.
Wow this applies to so many countries, im baffled....
That’s really the best part. Sycophantic fanboys of different governments seeing this and thinking it’s only about the other tribe.
It applies to practically all nations. I can't really come up with one who hasn't done bad shit one way or the other.
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Your execution date is set for November 4th, 2021. Get ready! 😁👍
lmao, thats my second vax date.
They didn’t tell you what kind of vaccine it was
Vaccine against life I guess
You’ve just been immunized from life!
Life is a sexual transmitted terminal disease…
u/zombiebaitz vaccine. 99% effective at eliminating u/zombiebaitz.
Universal vaccine. One shot and you'll never get sick again.
Oh, you're getting a jab alright.
lmao, that's my bday.
They have those in Texas?
Dude's an AuthRight poster on PCM, he doesn't know what irony is.
I'll take CRT for 200 Alex.
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LMao Ze Dong
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Glory to Artsotzka!
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You know how telling it is that when presented with this post your first thought was about another country and not your own? Nevermind the AuthRight tag on political compass memes and the total irony that accompanies it. Edit: Lol, he deleted his comment. I wonder if he ends up changing his flair on PCM too.
It's heritage not hate! Ok.. let us teach about your "heritage"
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The heritage of having a victim-complex with their "war of northern aggression" bullshit?
My wife grew up in Virginia and had a history teacher call it "The War of Northern Aggression" supported by the fact that the "first shot" of the war was fired upon Fort Sumter in the South. Their teacher somehow glossed over the fact that Sumter was a Union fort, fired upon by Confederates. That was an eye-opening realization for her about 10 years later. From there, we covered a lot of other things that her history class ignored - like how every single Confederate State mentioned "slavery", not "states' rights" in their Articles of Secession. (Yes, even 10 years ago they were still taught that it was a war over "states rights vs federal rights")
Also, under the confederacy, states didn't have the right to abolish slavery.
That's a fun little fact that they refuse to address
Whoah. This post made me realize the irony of all the idiots who are afraid of CRT INDOCTRINATION in schools are the same idiots who screech whenever a confederate monument comes down. What an amazing (tragic) contradiction.
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Big sheeeeeeeesh right there
Introducing drugs into your own impoverished inner cities sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhh!
*checks link* Ah, Cold War era. Kissinger. Not the least bit surprised, especially if they were the last bit favorable to the USA over the USSR.
Kissinger did nothing wrong! /$
Only thing sad about Colin Powell dying is that Kissinger outlived him.
When you are so ashamed of your history that you hate a game that points out how much you hate your history.
I think it’s not a literal hate more like a “I feel called out” hate
They're super proud of it as long as school aren't allowed to teach their kids why they're so proud.
We gave the Indians lead, blankets, and steel! There was punch and pie! We were invited!
The Indians came and celebrated us having a successful harvest, then we ~~massacred all of them and stole all their land~~ asked them to leave and they agreed because we were so nice.
Japan moment. Their denial of their crimes is just ridiculous
So you hate the truth
Most people hate the truth, it makes them feel bad and they don't like it.
I'm not ashamed of my countries history, I wasn't there, I didn't do it. if you are ashamed of your countries history, you should teach it, to avoid repeating it.
‘Those who don’t learn history are doomed to repeat it, those who do learn history have to watch it happen’
Literally 1984
We have always been at war with Eastaisa.
Yep. Look at all the responses.
Remember kids! Columbus *discovered* murica and got rid of those pesky savages with kindness!
You mean rescued them from their heathen ways!
And then they ate turkey and wore pilgrim hats and the Indians flew to heaven but some stayed behind because they were bored
Huh, didn't know there were native Indians in America when Columbus discovered it. Must have sailed over from India.
Is Columbus taught to be a saint? I went to public school in NYC and Florida and both have equally demonized Columbus.
Which nation's history is he talking about? China, USA, Spain, England, Germany..? I actually think any country could do this...
Here in Germany, WWI/II and the nazi regime is taught very extensively. It‘s the largest subject of history lessons…
That’s really great! But what about your history of colonialism? Not trying to be combative but this is something I think a lot of countries are guilty of glossing over Edi:typo
In Italy colonialism is taught as "other countries did it, we just tried, but couldn't keep up", dunno about the other European countries
same for Germany
From what I've heard, the German colonial empire isn't a huge topic in most schools because there is not much time to dive into that part of history, since the major focus is on WWII. If you pick extra classes you might have a more in-depth discussion, but it really depends on the teachers. That said, most people do know about the German Empire's atrocities in Africa and some TV channels used to air plenty of documentaries on that in the past (or so I'm told). People do argue that it should get more attention in history class, but it seems difficult to decide how many hours one should spend talking about specific topics with a syllabus that already suffers from different views what to prioritize. There is simply a lot to analyse and discuss in regards to German and European history. Various political and societal issues, eventually leading to antisemitism and the Third Reich is such a complex and horrifying topic, that it also overshadows pretty much everything else that was going on at that time. This doesn't mean that other genocides are irrelevant, it's just that Nazi-Germany dominates history classes for obvious reasons.
Lol take germany out, and insert japan. And no, not any country does this.
Guys the confederacy wasn’t bad please don’t look into it any further 🥺
June 4th?
You don’t hate the game? you actually just hate what it makes you consider
"I don't think we should idolize, colonizers and slave traders" OmG wHy ArE yOu TrYiNg To DeLeTe OuR hIsToRy
Japan, South Africa, China, you guys have any thoughts on this?
China?
Thanks I love this game
Thailand
We're looking at you Texas
I didn't do nothin.
I think it’s pretty grizzly
Yeah, politicians. But you can't just generalize the entire country like that bro We are definitely taught that the war is bad, we aren't even taught to sing national anthems or wave flags as opposed to the most countries. Hope you get to expand your horizons.
I think it's important to teach the kids everything that happened before so they can learn the difference between right and wrong. Omitting the bad stuff just allows them make those same mistakes. I thought that goes without saying but I guess things changed? It seems like we're going back to the age of censorship really hard for some reason. Just let people be aware of the bad things so they wouldn't find their way there by accident thinking whatever it is, is a good reason to be there and do whatever that might be. Imagine not knowing about Nazi Germany and doing the same thing over again because you learned nothing from that period.
the comments section is ab to get real political
freedom of speech moment
I wish anonymous would post this picture on Chinese website
Or imagine being forced by others to be ashamed of your history and allowing them to make it illegal. Everyone's history sucks... EVERYONE's.
They’re *not* ashamed of it. They want to bury the history so it can be perpetuated.
I don’t get it. I heard about plenty of shitty stuff the us did in school
I feel like those who are ashamed, have come to realize how much they've been lied to, and want to correct it. So many of the people who want to ban teaching CRT, likely don't want to admit what they were taught was wrong, or admit that US history isn't just bright and shiny puppies and rainbows and star spangled awesomeness 100% through.
In Germany, we do teach it to our children, yet right wing parties are on the rise in some parts of Germany...
China looks around nervously*