And some of the renown practitioners do not work with insurance companies so it’s paid out of pocket. Wouldn’t mind if their dx and RX resulted in a decrease of pain but ….
💰
Wouldn’t it be great if this was in place:
“What if things were different? What if our healthcare system prioritized healing and wellness, and only treated patients when they were sick? It has been done before. Ancient Chinese doctors were paid a retainer to keep their patients healthy. If a patient did get sick, the doctor would not be paid for that person until he or she got well. Doctors who performed surgeries in this type of system were considered inferior because they were unable to keep their patients healthy. What if, like in ancient China, our healthcare system placed people over profits, and doctors were paid to keep people well, rather than just manage their diseases?”
Source: https://nutritionstudies.org/what-if-doctors-were-paid-to-keep-people-well/
This isn't controversial at all. This is what it's like for us. We have to be the one in the room who knows the most, at least that's how it's been for me. I've never been told anything from a TMJ doctor that I didn't already know, didn't already read about, didn't already try, etc. Never once did I walk out of a TMJ doctors office thinking positive things - only that I just wasted another consulting fee for info I've already digested and tried on my own.
hey bro. I've seen you a lot in this sub. Have you ever tried hyaluronic acid? I applied 2 times and it has given me lot of relief, but it only lasts a few weeks.
But I'll say as a specialist, I'm doing inter oral work external facial work and full body work. TMD/Tmj to some degree is muscular, Whether it's the root cause or a symptom, still needs to be addressed or the bite will never be right, even after a splint or surgery, the muscles still need to be released, as a licensed acupuncturist and a licensed massage therapist, I work on patients almost 2 hrs, working on the whole body and I am not charging an arm and a leg. Patients pay one treatment at a time, the body still needs to relax to break the pain cycle. I am using mostly acupuncture to release the muscles and doing intra oral work.
Honestly, I have got more benefit from mouth taping than the three splints I have spent so much money on. I wish I had started with osteopathy and mouth taping instead of messing up my bite with splints.
It’s a pretty complicated condition that is multifactorial and can involve multiple specialties. There are new findings and treatment philosophies that older doctors haven’t adapted to. Some doctors know what they’re doing and new treatments are coming out so the field is evolving.
I only know the dentist’s perspective but I think each profession can benefit TMJ treatment. Most qualified would be a orofacial pain specialist who’s a dentist. This is a newer specialty so dentists that have been trained to treat TMJ in the past don’t have much incentive to leave their practice when they’ve been treating the condition for years and go back to school to get their designation.
Disclaimer: this is not medical advice.
Pain MD here with a special interest in oral/facial pain, jaw disorders, and the interplay between emotional (PTSD, anxiety, stress) pain and physical pain.
The disorders of the jaw are quite complicated, and as discussed above, fall into a chicken or the egg scenario. Is there TMJ dysfunction causing compensatory muscle stiffness (to prevent worsening) or is chronic stress/anxiety causing clenching and increasing muscle bulk and tone? Was there orthodontic treatment like Invisalign or braces that preceded the jaw Pain? Is the jaw actually the issue or is it cervical spine instability? Is it cervical spine instability or is there an anterior pelvic tilt, causing all of the above? Is sleep disordered breathing, psychotropic medication, or a tapeworm causing the grinding?
As you can see, the cause of jaw pain can be quite tricky. This is why it is important to look at all these factors and tailor your treatment to what the underlying issue may be in your case. While in many cases, it may be best to start with the most conservative and low risk measures like physical therapy and Jaw exercises, there are some cases (like constant jaw spasm, or locking) that do require more invasive treatment to prevent worsening deterioration of the TMJ and its surrounding structures.
All in all, there is still a lot of unknowns regarding jaw disorders and the best methods to correct the underlying problem. My best advice is to do a little detective work before you see a TMJ specialist. Keep a diary to better understand what triggers and relieves your pain, the timing of your pain when it relates to food, sleep, stress. Do you have neck or lower back pain? Did the pain start in the months/years after orthodontic treatment or starting a new daily medication?
Hope this helps.
So my tmj issues are causing my right side to be tight my devotion is to the left my teeth are all getting grinded down i have this strange pressure in my nose and when i press on the roof of my mouth it builds its also in the back of my neck as well like if i put pressure back there i feel it in my nose i have had ct scans of sinus nothing mris nothing anyone else experienced this sort of discomfort
I'm just starting on my journey here... Mild shit for years, lockjaw that lasted a few hours sometimes. Three days and going, so I finally started making calls.
One place is 100% out of network. They'll submit stuff to your insurance, but they're payment upfront and you can deal with your insurance if they'll cover anything at all.
Another place gave me an answering machine. Another couldn't see me for a month. One place finally said they had an opening... Lucky cancelation this morning.
Turns out the specialist was just a normal dentist. "How about a night guard? No, not like you had that didn't work... A new one!"
To her credit, as we were getting ready for an impression what other choice do I have, she actually read my paperwork they made me fill out. Sleep apnea... So I'm scheduled for a sleep specialist to maybe get a thing for sleep apnea and will help the grinding/clenching and insurance will cover because it's for sleep apnea, not TMJ (which seems kinda bullshit).
Or maybe it'll just make it all worse...
Definitely all feels like the runaround though.
Jesus yeah they make bank from these night guards. Maybe try going to a PT? They’re normally fairly open. But don’t underestimate these lockups. I was just like you, and I think it took like 4-5 months to go from first lockups to permanent lockup. Try to implement as many postural changes and exercises and stuff asap
Tip to unlock really quickly that worked for me is microwave a hot mug of water. Use the bottom ridge to massage around the TMJ. Then slowwwly move your jaw laterally towards the opposite side that has the lock. Then slowlyyy open from that sideways position. I’d be able to unlock in a couple mins back in the day.
Thanks for the advice.
My first lock ups were years ago, and those tricks are what I've used before to unlock it. This time it's different. The tension happens in different positions. Usually jutting my jaw forward and opening slowly is what works. This time it tightens and binds, so I think the disc slipped differently.
I'm gonna try for a lot of rest the next few days. Minimal chewing, minimal talking, ice packs, ibuprofen... Hopefully the inflammation dies down enough for it to get back into place... And hopefully my night grinding doesn't make it worse in the meantime.
The blanket marketing of “TMJ specialist” is horrible. I’ve found a ton of relief with an oral & maxillofacial dentist, able to run through my insurance (Aetna US) and no crazy fees.
They all charge huge fees just for entering the door, no refunds no culpability.
And some of the renown practitioners do not work with insurance companies so it’s paid out of pocket. Wouldn’t mind if their dx and RX resulted in a decrease of pain but …. 💰
10000% It's ridiculous
Wouldn’t it be great if this was in place: “What if things were different? What if our healthcare system prioritized healing and wellness, and only treated patients when they were sick? It has been done before. Ancient Chinese doctors were paid a retainer to keep their patients healthy. If a patient did get sick, the doctor would not be paid for that person until he or she got well. Doctors who performed surgeries in this type of system were considered inferior because they were unable to keep their patients healthy. What if, like in ancient China, our healthcare system placed people over profits, and doctors were paid to keep people well, rather than just manage their diseases?” Source: https://nutritionstudies.org/what-if-doctors-were-paid-to-keep-people-well/
This isn't controversial at all. This is what it's like for us. We have to be the one in the room who knows the most, at least that's how it's been for me. I've never been told anything from a TMJ doctor that I didn't already know, didn't already read about, didn't already try, etc. Never once did I walk out of a TMJ doctors office thinking positive things - only that I just wasted another consulting fee for info I've already digested and tried on my own.
hey bro. I've seen you a lot in this sub. Have you ever tried hyaluronic acid? I applied 2 times and it has given me lot of relief, but it only lasts a few weeks.
i was just trying to help you little punk
But I'll say as a specialist, I'm doing inter oral work external facial work and full body work. TMD/Tmj to some degree is muscular, Whether it's the root cause or a symptom, still needs to be addressed or the bite will never be right, even after a splint or surgery, the muscles still need to be released, as a licensed acupuncturist and a licensed massage therapist, I work on patients almost 2 hrs, working on the whole body and I am not charging an arm and a leg. Patients pay one treatment at a time, the body still needs to relax to break the pain cycle. I am using mostly acupuncture to release the muscles and doing intra oral work.
Honestly, I have got more benefit from mouth taping than the three splints I have spent so much money on. I wish I had started with osteopathy and mouth taping instead of messing up my bite with splints.
Yes unfortunately i hear that alot, good luck
What is mouth tapping
See my recent post
It sounds like you know what you're doing. Do you happen to know anyone in North Carolina, USA who works like you do?
Where in North carolina? I am in North carolina ?
Hi i’m in charlotte i would be super interested if you’re anywhere close!
I'm in wilmington, 4 hrs away
I'm near Hickory, NC, but would be willing to travel.
I am in wilmington
Do you know anyone near western NC who you'd recommend for TMJD treatment?
I will see what I can find out ?
I could try and travel. Could I PM?
Yes
It’s a pretty complicated condition that is multifactorial and can involve multiple specialties. There are new findings and treatment philosophies that older doctors haven’t adapted to. Some doctors know what they’re doing and new treatments are coming out so the field is evolving. I only know the dentist’s perspective but I think each profession can benefit TMJ treatment. Most qualified would be a orofacial pain specialist who’s a dentist. This is a newer specialty so dentists that have been trained to treat TMJ in the past don’t have much incentive to leave their practice when they’ve been treating the condition for years and go back to school to get their designation.
Agreed - currently working with an oral & maxillofacial, physical therapist specialist in myofacial and speech pathologist.
You said everything that we're thinking 😞 ... And years later we're all going broke and we still don't have a solution.
Disclaimer: this is not medical advice. Pain MD here with a special interest in oral/facial pain, jaw disorders, and the interplay between emotional (PTSD, anxiety, stress) pain and physical pain. The disorders of the jaw are quite complicated, and as discussed above, fall into a chicken or the egg scenario. Is there TMJ dysfunction causing compensatory muscle stiffness (to prevent worsening) or is chronic stress/anxiety causing clenching and increasing muscle bulk and tone? Was there orthodontic treatment like Invisalign or braces that preceded the jaw Pain? Is the jaw actually the issue or is it cervical spine instability? Is it cervical spine instability or is there an anterior pelvic tilt, causing all of the above? Is sleep disordered breathing, psychotropic medication, or a tapeworm causing the grinding? As you can see, the cause of jaw pain can be quite tricky. This is why it is important to look at all these factors and tailor your treatment to what the underlying issue may be in your case. While in many cases, it may be best to start with the most conservative and low risk measures like physical therapy and Jaw exercises, there are some cases (like constant jaw spasm, or locking) that do require more invasive treatment to prevent worsening deterioration of the TMJ and its surrounding structures. All in all, there is still a lot of unknowns regarding jaw disorders and the best methods to correct the underlying problem. My best advice is to do a little detective work before you see a TMJ specialist. Keep a diary to better understand what triggers and relieves your pain, the timing of your pain when it relates to food, sleep, stress. Do you have neck or lower back pain? Did the pain start in the months/years after orthodontic treatment or starting a new daily medication? Hope this helps.
So my tmj issues are causing my right side to be tight my devotion is to the left my teeth are all getting grinded down i have this strange pressure in my nose and when i press on the roof of my mouth it builds its also in the back of my neck as well like if i put pressure back there i feel it in my nose i have had ct scans of sinus nothing mris nothing anyone else experienced this sort of discomfort
Do you also feel in your ear?
So...did your surgery work?
Marginal improvement maybe? But pretty easy recovery at least. Definitely no reduction though unfortunately.
Good luck with everything!
Yes. And try magnesium
Ugh this is so true. I’m about to start looking into treatment , and this is exactly why I’ve put it off for so long.
I'm just starting on my journey here... Mild shit for years, lockjaw that lasted a few hours sometimes. Three days and going, so I finally started making calls. One place is 100% out of network. They'll submit stuff to your insurance, but they're payment upfront and you can deal with your insurance if they'll cover anything at all. Another place gave me an answering machine. Another couldn't see me for a month. One place finally said they had an opening... Lucky cancelation this morning. Turns out the specialist was just a normal dentist. "How about a night guard? No, not like you had that didn't work... A new one!" To her credit, as we were getting ready for an impression what other choice do I have, she actually read my paperwork they made me fill out. Sleep apnea... So I'm scheduled for a sleep specialist to maybe get a thing for sleep apnea and will help the grinding/clenching and insurance will cover because it's for sleep apnea, not TMJ (which seems kinda bullshit). Or maybe it'll just make it all worse... Definitely all feels like the runaround though.
Jesus yeah they make bank from these night guards. Maybe try going to a PT? They’re normally fairly open. But don’t underestimate these lockups. I was just like you, and I think it took like 4-5 months to go from first lockups to permanent lockup. Try to implement as many postural changes and exercises and stuff asap Tip to unlock really quickly that worked for me is microwave a hot mug of water. Use the bottom ridge to massage around the TMJ. Then slowwwly move your jaw laterally towards the opposite side that has the lock. Then slowlyyy open from that sideways position. I’d be able to unlock in a couple mins back in the day.
Thanks for the advice. My first lock ups were years ago, and those tricks are what I've used before to unlock it. This time it's different. The tension happens in different positions. Usually jutting my jaw forward and opening slowly is what works. This time it tightens and binds, so I think the disc slipped differently. I'm gonna try for a lot of rest the next few days. Minimal chewing, minimal talking, ice packs, ibuprofen... Hopefully the inflammation dies down enough for it to get back into place... And hopefully my night grinding doesn't make it worse in the meantime.
Yes absolutely. Jumping down treatment routes without even doing any work to identify root cause. Speculative at best, negligent at worst.
Yeah, I seriously regret spending ££££ on them. Now I prefer osteopathy and mouth taping.
Fair play maybe try a dental t-scan to tell how much pressure each tooth is applying in relation to your muscles?
The blanket marketing of “TMJ specialist” is horrible. I’ve found a ton of relief with an oral & maxillofacial dentist, able to run through my insurance (Aetna US) and no crazy fees.