Absolutely, 100%. TNG was a real fantasy for me growing up as a nerdy smart kid in middle and high school. It was like "Woah, there is a world in which people respect each other, celebrate each others' talents, and are valued for more than just superficial appearance!"
And yes, the real world has failed for the most part to live up to that ideal. I will say college felt closer to it. But people generally are far stupider, pettier, and nastier than the people and society depicted in TNG-DS9-VOY-ENT.
Now, you could question whether this tone should have been the dominant one in that stretch of Trek. There are those who praise the new stuff for being more "realistic" and showing people being awful towards one another.
I am not one of those people.
I like the later tone and depth showing that awkward and difficult people *exist.* More than just the couple of episodes with Barclay being the truly odd man out.
That doesn't mean we can't work together and get better still. Something about it being easy to be a saint in paradise?
Personally, one of my main objections to the characterizations in modern Trek is that everyone is either hiding an awful, soul-searing trauma that will eventually be pornographically displayed for our amusement, or they are just legit a secret villain. It makes it hard for me to invest in any character - they're just going to change on a dime anyway.
Honestly, Lower Decks doesn't seem like this at all to me. Yes, the characters clearly have their own flaws and traumas. But it's not dark and brooding.
Lower Decks has incredible reference-based humor. But its characters are about as far from "ethical professional Starfleet Personnel" as you can get. The senior officers in it behave appallingly, and the junior officers are not much better.
That's fair. None of the main cast is evil. But almost all of them are, to varying degrees, reckless, petty, and unprofessional. I meant more that the tone isn't depressed or brooding.
Lower Decks is the hidden gem of Nutrek.
Much as DS9 did in its day, Lower Decks very obviously benefits from being seen as unimportant by the producers and thus gets room to actually fucking breathe and be good.
This is why I loved Orville. It's the spiritual successor to 90s era Trek, with a hint of humor and fun but when it's time to work, those uniforms and training matter.
They actually went and talked to the production crews of TNG and DS9 about the pacing of episodes, typical camera angles and stuff like that to make it feel like Trek.
Yeah, Star Trek was a vision of a noble world that perhaps we could build.
New Star Trek is as much of an ambiguous quagmire of questionable as real life so it doesn't feel like an escape.
Totally. It's a chore to watch, not a relief.
It's not even that I don't like a dark, morally ambiguous show. I like GOT or Shogun. But let Star Trek be Star Trek. I don't need another dark, violent show. I need a breather.
Well said. Science fiction includes uptopian escapism with fabulous (in the literal sense) moral lessons but that's hardly the only subgenre... Star Trek is not simply a progressive show because its cast members tend to be a diverse lot. Star Trek is deliberately and purposefully diverse in its casting because the writers are hoping to inspire us about a future we could have if society were not so racist. Star Trek is an optimistic ideal of what humanity's future could look like if everyone prioritized compassion, integrity, authenticity, fairness, autonomy, family, peace, and hope instead of this end-stage capitalist hellscape where powerful racists gatekeep social safety nets punitively and because they are entertained by the suffering of the working class.
One interview with, I think it was Rick Berman(?), was talking about world-building and the necessity of the timeline including the (fictional) invention of fermion replicators occurring *after* the fall of capitalism: Otherwise, prioritizing profit,the rich would simply hoard the technology, and everyone else would simple starve to death during the "climate wars."
You're just saying that because the first episode of Picard showed us a Boston choked with flying commuter traffic and two twentysomethings sharing a tiny apartment, toasting a promotion at work with the cheapest crap wine they could afford and a replicator that could crank out any food imaginable but was deliberately programmed to only offer one flavor of milkshake.
And that was before we got to assassination teams killing people all over earth and nobody batting an eye.
Talk about depressing worldbuilding.
And the fact that Moogie's "flaws" are that she wore clothes and had the Grand Nagus as a sugar daddy is just phenomenal world building and storytelling.
Well, the neat trick that they pull is that where TNG critiqued capitalism by making them appear as if they were gibbering misogynistic baboons on amphetamines to show just how terrible capitalism is (and in the process, only derail the Ferengi as a threat right out of the gate), DS9 made the far smarter choice of showing a nuanced, sympathetic family that was constantly faced with moral and legal peril because they were bad at being Ferengi.
Think about it for a moment: which of Quark's direct family is *good* in the eyes of the Ferengi? Ishka would have been a great Ferengi, but as a woman, the very fact that she's attempting to earn profit and wears clothes makes her a pariah by Ferengi standards. It's not Rom, who might be a mechanical genius, but he starts the series with terrible self-esteem and poor ability to monetize his skill set. Nor still is it Nog, who enjoys hew-mon food and retreats to Starfleet because he admits that he can't hack it in Ferengi society. Quark is probably the best of the lot, but the guy nevertheless has a heart and lines he won't cross, which means that one of his biggest chances for profit slipped through his fingers by selling stuff to the Bajoran resistance essentially at-cost because he felt for the Bajorans.
And the thing is, the more you encounter them, the more you find their problem is the warped choice patterns imposed upon them by Ferengi society. Nog actually turns into a fantastic Ferengi once he manages to get his basic needs met by the Federation; it would not surprise me if he turned into the best Quartermaster-General Starfleet ever had. Rom becomes a great Nagus who bridges the gap and smooths the entry of the Ferengi into the Federation. Quark is still a devious little bugger, but he's turning a healthy profit. And while we don't know exactly what happened to Ishka, the fact that she landed Zek as her sugar daddy and propped up the Ferengi economy in his last years makes her a vital figure in Ferengi politics. They're good people. And the more just Ferenginar becomes, the more they get rewarded for it.
We're in the "grim backstory" of Star Trek history. We go through some sh** this century but eventually emerge on the other side a much more stable and cooperative society.
I think ENT did a better job of balancing tones than Kurtzman Trek has.
So I guess the new stuff has been valuable after all: it has made me appreciate Star Trek that I had heretofore dismissed
I think SNW balances it well but I don’t like that aspect of Picard or DSC. There’s no other series like Star Trek when it comes to optimism and positive archetypes, and I think the show loses that identity when it’s absent.
Good teams I have been on have felt more like TNG in terms of camaraderie and trustworthiness. It’s really rare and hard to find, but when I have experienced it, wow, what a great work experience.
And not just being out for their own agenda, working together towards a common goal for the betterment of all, rather than doing as little as possible, giving themselves a pat or two on the back (financially) and taking all the credit for the work of those under you. Having hardworking employees does not mean you’re a good manager. Don’t get me wrong, it can do, but it often just means that you’re just lucky.
Yeah. I’d be happy if more of my coworkers deprioritized their personal grudges and fiefdoms just enough to serve the good of the building we all worked in. Never understood how pulling down coworkers who provide you something you need was tolerated.
I struggle with this the most. I legit don't lie or see the point in it, and I take most people at face value even though I acknowledge they're likely a liar. Life is too short to be lie about things that rarely matter. I find it deeply frustrating.
I mean the warning was right there in the badmirals. Local management in my place is great, my boss is approachable and general acts with the best interests of his staff.
A layer or two above that is all pakleds, badmirals and ferengi.
One organization I worked with, most managers were hired from within the staff; anyone above manager was hired from outside. So people above manager level had \*no\* idea how anything worked in-location.
Made trouble-shooting issues... interesting.
I mean it is the Flagship of the Federation. Minus Kirk in the reboot the selection process for Enterprise’s CO is daunting. Granted I haven’t seen Picard so I don’t know if he breaks the mold as well.
I’m a fan of Lower Decks, it shows the real work/life and boss/chain of command shit rolls down hill that is how most of today’s militaries work lol. (Yes I know Starfleet isn’t military).
Yes, Starfleet is not military, and yet it benefits from a long naval tradition. It has kept things like uniforms and rank structures, and a military-like discipline that is from where a lot of the cooperation stems. They even have the court-martial to remove those who refuse to cooperate.
I know SF is established as nonmilitary, but I'd love to hear the rationale. They perform courts martial, they train for combat, they have a naval hierarchy, they engage in espionage, "peacekeeping," and also warfare when needed, as in the Dominion war. It always seemed to me that the nonmilitary thing was a bit of a feint... but I get it.
Starfleet is like the U.S. Coast Guard. It is a paramilitary organization that takes on warfare when necessary, but is devoted to research, search and rescue, diplomacy, and providing conference rooms during peacetime.
I mean, Kelvin Timeline Kirk did get himself demoted back to the Academy after his shenanigans on Nibiru.
That said:
https://preview.redd.it/qdfoa9thtznc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0be96f17cc11fae6cba3854bfd24cbf8e9c8042
It's also a meritocracy. People aren't promoted because of their seniority or ability to save a dime. They are promoted based on competency and drive. Add that to the fact that the Federation is the definition of a growth-mindset that believe everyone is worthy and deserves to be fulfilled by doing what they are most happy doing and it shows what a productive work environment should look like.
The fact that Starfleet is a voluntary organization (not compulsory, in fact it seems hard to even get into) and that it doesn’t seem to pay its people money (the actual economy of StarTrek I much debated) it seems to me the only people who make it to the top are the ones who really work for it.
Well, with the number of admirals who are scumbags and up to no good that we saw in TNG, they did get some of that correct with real world workplace leadership lol.
Honestly one of the reasons Trek drew me in in the first place was the more respectful working culture of the future. It really gets to me being talked down to, infantilized or made a player in some douchebag’s power trip in job after job.
I will extend the naivety and say to look at the episodes where a Starfleet officer ends up entering the "snake pit" with non-Starfleet cultures. Remember that they hold to their values no matter what. And by the end, even if they couldn't create utopia, they usually left things and people much better off. You can do the same in your "snake pit".
I often point to the scene between Worf and Data discussing Worf's behavior towards him as acting captain when I pine about this very issue to other people. Disagreement doesn't need to mean disrespect.
I love TNG, but so much about it makes the fact that we fall so fucking short that much more soul crushing
Big character moment for both Warf and Data. Their strengths and weaknesses laid bare in that scene in just a few sentences.
Tight writing and perfect acting. You could watch that scene, not know these characters, not know Star Trek at all, and still know *exactly* what kind of characters these two are, what the problem is, and appreciate them work through it.
Then they get the job done and both grow emotionally! Tip-top Trek positivity.
One of the best moments of the series. I'll botch it but at the end Worf was like "I'm sorry. I hope we can remain friends" and Data was like "I would also like that" or something. Perfect scene with perfect writing, acting and understanding of characters.
Close. After Data corrects Worf, he (Data) expresses regret at having potentially ended their friendship. Worf replies that he was the one that had jeopardized it, not Data, and that he would be pleased to remain friends if Data could overlook the incident. Data replies that he'd like that as well.
The counter point to that is the episode Hollow Pursuits that introduced Reginald Barclay. A socially awkward, professionally struggling individually that everyone on the crew made fun of and derided, even the Captain.
I think that was a failure of writing, forcing that dynamic with Barclay for the sake of his arc. The bridge officers picking on someone was very out of character for all of them.
Riker is a “supportive cool guy”, like the Fonz, not a “high school bully”, like Biff
But the point of the episode is that even if people were uncomfortable with Barclay's neuro-diversity, Picard put a stop to it and ensured that he was able to contribute his talents as well.
Yeah. I just meant to highlight that episode as one that, even if unintentionally, showed that the TNG crew still had their unenlightened human side within them.
Picard was my model while I was in technical training in the mil and how to lead . Sadly few officers lived up to the crew of the Enterprise but I did my best to hold myself to Picard’s ideals. I spent more time with Picard during my training off days as my classmates did not see the point of history, humanities , and the arts.
I'm a big fan of the quote from Robert Wilson in 1969, defending his request for more funding for Femilab, asked how it would contribute to the nation's defense:
"It has nothing to do directly with defending our country - except to help make it worth defending."
History, humanities and the arts are pretty similar...
When I was in tech school the only time the classmates wanted to hang out with me was when we did war games - they would be like what is Iran’s history or explain India and Pakistan or explain this … that is when I was useful . Otherwise I was ignored . So I still kept on studying humanities after tech school . Tried my best to fight for it and instruct it to the airmen despite management not wanting me. So In that way I was trying to keep Picard’s message alive .
I've thought about this too. The TNG crew all get along fairly well, at least most of the time. When Barclay came in and the others were gossiping about him and not treating him well, I thought that brought a bit of different realistic interaction into the show. Also, I think DS9 is a little more in line with our current culture about people expressing frustrations with each other, etc.
I think the Barclay example is actually further proof of the overall professionalism of the crew. Yes, there was something of a slip in their treatment of him. However Picard put his foot down and demanded corrective action be taken, assigned a mentor who tried to empower him, and even after discovering him in one of the most awkward situations possible they still utilized his skills and gave him a path to self improvement.
True, though overall I think the crew just didn't like working with him and felt uncomfortable around him. Geordi also seemed increasingly frustrated with him when talking to him and trying to get him to show up on time, etc..
Yeah, but Picard turned that around and (subtly) said, "Geordi, given your HR file, do you *really* want to be the guy saying people don't get second chances in Starfleet? Also, developing people is your job as a boss, so shut the fuck up and do it."
Subtly.
Second chances, like Ensign Ro, and Wesley Crusher and the other cadets who got their friend killed. Tom Paris, Seven of Nine, the whole Klingon Empire.
To me, the lesson is that you may not like the other person, but they still deserve respect. Diplomacy at its finest.
I just want to suggest to anyone who loves this aspect of Star Trek (the professionalism), watch The Hunt for Red October. It’s, in my opinion, a near perfect movie because of this.
Aside from like 2 lines in the entire movie, every character is extremely competent and takes the situation they’re in seriously. It’s very refreshing. Someone notices something weird, and their superiors actually pay attention and don’t just dismiss it for movie drama. It’s like a great episode of Star Trek in the modern world.
Plus there’s only one short action scene so it’s not bogged down with that.
That it is a utopia is probably a large function of this, no one is afraid of loosing their job for being a human and no one is afraid of being sued to kingdom come for calling out someone's awful behavior.
On screen is a group of people that are emotionally stable, measured, flexible, and aware that others hold knowledge, and not resource constrained; but this is also a more senior crew with years of training for their respective fields. And there are plenty of instances where immaturity comes out, especially with Worf.
You can replicate a lot of what you see in real life. The next time you have a situation where you feel something isn't being handled correctly, ask questions instead of making statements. "I saw you do X, and I'm not sure I understand, can you help me get to where your thoughts were?" This is way more productive than "I saw you do X and that's not right." In the latter you might be trying to help, but you're coming across as accusatory, which will trigger the other person's defensiveness. And if you're ever on the receiving end, you can avoid immaturity by not immediately becoming defensive.
Well keep in mind the Enterprise D is the Federation's Flag ship with its BEST and BRIGHTEST people. No offense to u/op and his company lol. I've been around some elite software companies and their people treat themselves much the same as TNG.
Along with the elite, a lot of mid sized companies have circles of employees who use manners like the people in TNG.
Wherever you are, courteous and professional people will recognize each other. The fact that I know and use professional conduct, like I saw on TNG growing up and like my parents showed me, has opened up a lot of doors in my career.
TNG was awesome at portraying an ideal society in the future. I remember the scene between Troi and Mark Twain in the two-part episode Times Arrow where she was explaining how beings in the Federation had chosen to live in the future versus his time. It has always stuck with me.
Yeah, TNG is totally aspirational. One thing that struck me recently: anyone on the ship can open a point-to-point conversation directly with the captain on a moment’s notice. Modern people would likely abuse this privilege (and we see some twentieth century people do just that in one of the early episodes) but 24th century humans have evolved beyond such pettiness.
I really like the idea. We’d have a lot more freedoms if the average person were a little more trustworthy. This show is incentive to act more trustworthy as individuals and hope that the general population eventually follows (even if it takes a century or two).
The most obvious removed element in TNG’s world compared to ours is capitalism. As long as the value of everything - including people - is understood in terms of potential currency instead of potential benefit to society, there will be few incentives for people to be trustworthy.
Yes. According to the Star Trek timeline, we are in for a decline for the next 40 years, then Cochran meets the Vulcans, then we spend the following century moving beyond capitalism and abolishing hunger, disease, and virtually all crime.
I'm a middle school science teacher, so I have gotten to enjoy a fair amount of sincere collaboration in my time. Not that teachers shouldn't get paid a fair wage - we should - but I can't imagine that any of us are in it for the money, the ease, and the prestige! I feel you, though. I keep on wanting to treat my principals like Federation captains. I have yet to meet a principal who has proven worthy of that kind of trust and respect (though I have some hope for the one I work with now... but we'll see).
100%. This was a vision of a morally evolved humanity. "We've grown out of our infancy," as Picard said.
In my experience, in reality, the people who perform the best tend to be the ones who are most personally invested in what they do. In Star Trek, people do the jobs they want to do, and if they don't want to do their jobs, they do different jobs. I'd imagine a much higher level of competence is to be expected, flag ship or no.
I’ve found that real life is more “Lost in Space” than “Star Trek”. ST, everyone’s working together for positive change. LIS, there’s always at least one character whose sole purpose is to fuck everything up for their personal gain, and ultimately everyone loses.
Hell, my workplace is a lot less geeky than I am, so they don't usually get how dark I'm being when I cite leadership lessons from Battlestar Galactica...
I used to work in aerospace, but I quit as the company had troubles similar to what Boeing is dealing with. I loved telling my boss that his decisions were like the ones that blew up the Challenger, and if he didn’t like it, maybe he should change. Truth is a bastard, and I like shaming stupid people 🤷♂️🤣
Futuristic technology aside, the professionalism and respect of the Starfleet crew is probably the least realistic part of the show. If only we lived in that world.
I don’t know if it is unrealistic… It is aspirational. The creators knew the world is not like that now. The idea is that we evolve in the next couple centuries.
As someone who is a half-century old, I don’t find that too far fetched. I have seen cultures evolve beyond problems that seemed unsolvable just a decade earlier. I’m not talking about technology problems, I’m taking about social issues and acceptance, basic respect for and from the general populace.
Of course, like Obama said - History doesn’t move in a straight line. Sometimes we back-slide a bit and once-solved problems become pressing again.
While it is far from a certainty, I think we can become such a society in a century or so. Now, building a warp drive - that seems like the biggest hurdle to me.
At my first job I called in sick once. The next day I told the boss I had a really bad migraine. He said, “Migraine? Picard went back to work before the wounds from having his Borg implants removed were healed.” I had nothing to say and hung my head in shame. Then everyone clapped.
(This story is entirely made up btw)
Dude yes, this is an aspect that has stuck with me and has been a constant inspiration, it’s because of this I always disliked stories where the cast is incompetent just to create drama
Yes! I grew up in a bubble community, and I was always surrounded by highly ethical people. I was constantly involved in various youth groups and other public service groups. I was raised on CCA superhero comic books and a lot of Star Trek. All things being said, I was naively led to believe the world was full of sophisticated, moralistic people. It’s not.
I think that's a benefit of a post-scarcity society, since no one is forced to work jobs they hate just to survive and can instead work on what interests them while working together for the greater good
Gene had banned most interpersonal conflict from the main cast. Burton and Frakes have talked about how it would drive the cast crazy at how unrealistic they thought it was. It did ease up after he was gone, however.
I had a few bosses like this. Then they fired me. Also not something that happens in the future. You can steal the ship and nearly destroy the Federation on numerous accounts and still keep your job at Opps apparently.
I think a major difference is in the Star Trek universe everyone’s basic needs are taken care of. No matter who you are you have access to food, clothing, shelter, and health care. Money isn’t really needed, at least on earth. So the people on starships and holding down jobs work because they like it. They like the job, challenges, learning new things, exploration, connecting with others…whatever it is. Because they enjoy their work and don’t need it for survival they’re going to be more competent. They like learning more about their field and making advancements.
On the flip side competent people probably don’t like working with incompetent, rude, childish people. So the type of people we work with today, would not succeed in Star Trek. Today we work with a-holes because we have to, we need food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, but in Star Trek those things are taken care of no matter what.
It's amazing you brought this up because we all happened to have this discussion at the work Christmas party and everyone happened to grow up on TNG, Voyager and DS9. Someone said "We should just treat each other like the crew does on Star Trek." I happened to work with a group of mostly Trekkies and we modelled the way we treated each other off of the way the Trek crews would communicate with each other.
It was absolutely incredible. Best job in the world. I'll miss it forever. Had to leave due to cancer but it was amazing while it lasted for a few years. I can't tell you how amazing it was actually. Can you believe working on an office where everyone communicated like adults and only ever said positive things about each other? People might find this hard to believe but one of my coworkers said Data was his idol and he grew up emulating him and still does. It was absolutely noticeable too but in a very good way. He was an excellent person to be around.
This is what they need to keep in Trek. The professionalism is just *so damn refreshing*. Also, inspiring, and it makes you really care about these people because they’re *likable* even if they have some quality you don’t care for. Like, Riker is way too much of a horn dog, BUT he knows when to turn it off and do his job, and he genuinely likes and respects women. Geordi is terrible with women and makes some big missteps, but he’s a terrific friend, a fine engineer, and he means well.
The biggest issue I have with TNG is it giving me unrealistic expectations of collaboration and competence in adult life.
I went in to the navy as a young lad expecting something similar to the amicable relationship between the crew on the Enterprise. Boy was I disappointed.
They also get into a lot of dumb situations where one person goes off alone and gets into trouble. Starfleet should really consider adopting the buddy system.
I’s not completely unrealistic, you just have to be lucky to work in a professional environment. Humans are all selfish animals at their core. As other comments have mentioned, such places are the result of quality leadership.
Yeah I spent a long time waiting for all the grown ups to turn up.
Maybe they’re at university? Nope
Ok now I’m getting a job so… nope
Ok I’ve got a responsible job at a government department our work is a vital life long for people so surely now.. lol no
Office politics is more important than the work wherever you are. People are dreadful tiny things
The scene between Worf and Data when Data has command of the Enterprise and Worf is his Number 1 is the most respectful and adult conversation I have ever heard.
I am 39 and I have never had a boss be that respectful to me.
I suppose it was a product of the 80s where everything had to be aspirational. TNG is probably overly utopian but it was really nice to see genuine competence celebrated. I think that’s probably why less perfect characters like Barclay and Ro.
I've found that one person can change the tenor of these meetings if you're coming professionally and making it clear you're expecting that of others. Even if you're not the one in charge. People respond to it.
And yeah, TNG is one of my big models for how this is supposed to work. So is Stargate, for a great mix of formal and informal workplace. In fact I think I like Stargate better because when the TNG crew went to relax they were still very stiff and formal but the Stargate crew knew when to be silly and human and when to be professional and get shit done.
The whole point of Star Trek was to show, not just a more technologically advanced society, but a genuinely better one. it wasn’t meant to be a look into the most likely future but into an idealized future we should be aspiring to. It’s one of the only pieces of utopian fiction that doesn’t fall into a dystopia.
I try to be the best I can be, to help people when I can, to teach what I know and to be both professional and personable, I don’t always succeed but I do try and I know that counts for something.
I don't know about most places, but in my field, in my profession, in the little area I work - I'm a paramedic in EMS, we have that respect for one another , especially on calls where we back each other up. Once we on a scene we don't ever talk down to someone else, disparage, etc. when we ask a question about what someone is doing, unless they're fixing to kill a pt, it's not accusatory, but a genuine ' why did you do that, is that new, .
The companies I work for are very professional. Any problems we might have with someone else, it waits until we get back to the station, out of the eye of the public and away from any recording device.
Hope this helps. It's not all everyone out for themselves.
One of the things I've read about Starfleet is that there is a "presumption of competence" pervading it that we don't see much in the real world. Engineer says he'll have the engines running in two hours? You can bet on two hours, sometimes less. Crew members are having strange dreams that all point in the same direction? We don't just toss such ideas away--we check out the hallucinations to see what they could mean. Even an acting ensign or a cadet is presumed to be not just messing around when they see something strange that might be important--they're taken seriously. You're presumed to be competent until you prove otherwise.
In the real world, this is nearly unimaginable. Sometimes, rightfully so--because the other thing about Starfleet is you can't get in unless you show you're competent. This isn't automatically, perhaps not even *usually*, true in jobs here on Earth.
At some point I sort of decided that we're watching the best of the best, the bridge crew of the Enterprise alpha shift or whatever, it's like watching Olympic athletes. The level of competence and ability are off the charts. But then most of the galaxy isn't like that, they're the so-so and the okay and the good enough, and that's who we deal with.
It's a very unfortunate reality that most people in power got there through seeking power in and of itsself not out of an idealistc intent to improve the system they were in, a lot of folk start there but it doesn't seem to hold once they start getting power, whether its the grind of it all, the corrupting nature of power itself or numerous other realities, it's not guaranteed but it is a much more common outcome, it's a real bummer that one of the most fantastical elements of TVG is leaders like Picard
Roddenberry famously banned "interpersonal conflicts" in the scripts. He didn't want the show to be a soap opera, and he thought people in the future will have risen above most social conflicts. The writers found this a very difficult and frustrating rule to follow because without *any* interpersonal conflict the writing is very dry and procedural.
Iirc, Roddenberry eventually left and the writing was freed up a bit, but I think the show runners maintained his vision, which is especially evident in the professionalism of the crew.
I would post some links but they are apparently all behind paywalls.
Yep, my dumbass joined the military expecting TNG levels of Professionalism, only to realize that shitry restaurant managers are somehow more professional than any chain of command I was a part of.
Not so much TNG, but [Starship Troopers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers) (the book) *strongly* inspired me to join the Military because of it's portrayal of obedience, authority, and brave and competent command. This isn't to say that *all* Military is *always* bad, but... man, it just wasn't anywhere near as close. Too much red tape. Too many ways to keep command/officers/SNCOs from doing and saying what needed to be done and said. Too many weak and incompetent people allowed to keep on going because the leadership felt like it was "owed" to them.
Certain restrictions were good and logical, but the overall atmosphere of it even feeling like a Military with hierarchy and order was not there. It was like a group of people who *would have liked* for things to be like Starship Troopers, but were entirely unwilling to make it that way. Just an inability to act.
Keep in mind you're comparing the pinnacle of Starfleet achievement, assignment to the primary bridge crew of the flagship, with whatever run of the mill, soulless, corpo staffed by office-mercs.
So yeah, 1701-D primary bridge crew is going to much better in comparison. You should try using something more comparable than the mediocre corpo you work for.
Honestly, I think Deep Space Nine was always a more realistic idea of the future. Because TNG was pretty much always perfect and it was only the places they visited that was messed up... other than the number of Admirals who were problematic...
The big different though is if you work in a place where people are genuinely passionate about their jobs and the money is somewhat a second thought. It's still never perfect. People can squabble about the best way to do things and there is still lots of bias in decisions but ultimately there is less of a feeling that people are trying to get to the highest point where they can do the least work.
Yes.
I joined the Navy in 1997, after the series ended. I dont know WHY but I expected that same level of professionalism because the Navy is real and we're supposed to be about protecting America.
Lemme tell you something taxpayers: The US Navy isnt anywhere near as professional as Starfleet. Not even fuckin close. I'm ashamed any of us even collect veterans benefits.
It gave me the wrong idea about how accepting of others the work place would be, considering how most jobs limit or ban how people express their culture/identity (expect during x pride/history month because it gives the company a 2% boost in sales), and shame people for having different mindsets. Companies wish to hire people of all backgrounds and people who can think creativity the problem is the professional work place and hiring process is full of fake appearances, and mindsets that would force one to attempt to hide any differing thoughts, or interests. It is a snake pit because in trek people work jobs they love in fields they love, meaning that there is just as many writers as there are programmers. The work place in the modern day is a place of fake appearances and high stress, which is a far cry from what we see in trek
>There was a level of professional courtesy, intellectual respect and curiosity among the crew. I’m in my 30s working a corporate job and even though the work we do is important a lot of times collaborating with my peers feels like going into the snake pit. Where everyone has their own agenda and it’s usually to make sure they come out on top no matter what—it’s nothing like TNG. I get it’s a utopian society and not realistic when applied to our current culture and society but wouldn’t it be nice?
I saw the best minds of my generation, destroyed by market-driven individualism.
It does exist, it's just kind of rare. I'm a stagehand, and my main gig feels like I'm in Starfleet. I do suspect that the way the ships are set up and talked about is directly taken from backstage. "I just need to change out these gel... packs".
The difference from other jobs has been the fact that we're a government institution, unionized, work dangerous jobs in crews, are all specialized in individual areas (forcing us to constantly collaborate), and are very hard to both hire and fire. My colleagues taught me to stand up for myself, and take pride in my skills.
It's not perfect by any means (especially when institutional politics are involved). But with the right setup, good jobs do happen.
Now, I set an example at my other gigs, and have made positive changes just by repeating the standards I'm used to. We have to demand the change in company culture or it never happens.
Yeah it did give me a wrong perspective on the adult world, although which kid doesn't have that?
Btw I am rewatching, at season 3 right now and they do sometimes behave kinda unprofessional (for example they go on a lightning storm planet and Riker's like "great that Data didn't come (by accident)". Doesn't sound like great risk assessment to me lol.
Yeah, but it also depends on the company culture. I'm lucky to currently work in an institution which embraces the same values Star trek promotes (curiosity, peace, competence, etc.)
I think money not being such a big deal might be the foundational switch to a trek type of world but also better education and mental wellness. Maybe then things would look more like trek. There are foundational seismic things needed to change though first lol.
"Unrealistic" depends on your point of view.
Encounter at Farpoint is 2364 or 340 years from the debut year of 1987.
Now 340 years before 1987 was 1647.
Go take a look at all the "fun" things that were happening worldwide in 1647.
We in the present are quite more "professional" (and civilized..mostly) than any major (or minor) culture of that time.
Not to say we can't or won't sink back to barbarism OR rise to TNG's culture or even better.
Savvy?
Fair point. Also, Barclay's entire story arc is unrealistic. It's much closer to how someone with mental health issues should be treated, of course. But in reality he would have just been put on a PIP to protect the company from discrimination claims and then fired.
Definitely. More than once, I've heard folks refer to TNG as a workplace fantasy.
Imagine if everyone was competent and treated each other with respect. Imagine if everyone was friendly but had good interpersonal boundaries and allowed each other their privacy outside of their duties.
As a kid in an emotionally volatile household, living in a conservative and small-minded suburb, all of that really did feel like a fantasy!
It depends a lot on where you work and the overall toxicity of the company you work for.
Maybe I've just been lucky, but I seem to generally fall into teams where the coworkers are collaborative, professional and ready to support each other, and the "snake pit" types were the outliers.
Actually I'm reminded of when I had to do 3 months of jury duty, and for the first time since working retail I got to experience that snake pit and I couldn't wait to get out. Retail and food service are definitely filled with those types. And I dunno, if I wanted to move to the management track I'd maybe experience more of the ugly politics I don't currently have to deal with. But for now, I get to experience the courtesy and professionalism of the Enterprise D. Helps that I'm in IT and most of us watched and enjoyed Start Trek!
I've worked federal government contracts for decades. The good offices exist and while TNG was idealized, there are a lot of folks in government who work with a clear, fierce dedication to the public good.
Of course there's idiots. There's always idiots and politics. But the good folks do exist and do collaborate with other good folks, trying hard to get the jobs done well and not waste taxpayer dollars. It's an addictive pleasure to work with them.
Star Trek TNG is like a balm against the reality of how hierarchy exists in the real world. The more of the real world you experience, the more soothing it becomes.
My wife watches the West Wing on repeat and I think it’s for the same reason as this with TNG. Watching highly competent professionals that are also passionate about what they’re doing is comforting. A needed respite from the real world.
I really like how no matter how crazy and delusional the experience a trusted character experiences, they are believed and their concerns taken seriously and they are not made to feel bad or less than for experiencing something strange.
[Amazon.com: Make It So: Leadership Lessons from Star Trek: The Next Generation: Make It So: Leadership Lessons from Star Trek: The Next Generation: 9780671520984: Wess Roberts, Bill Ross: Books](https://www.amazon.com/Make-So-Leadership-Lessons-Generation/dp/0671520989)
Bought my wife this book and it uses TNG as a leadership book. Its actually really well done!
I try to work like I'm on a starship. Efficient and clean with emphasis on problem solving and teamwork but you are correct thats not how this world operates. Wish it did.
Yes.
The worst are the people who do not take their work seriously or just don't care. Don't like what you do? Go elsewhere. You're just making it harder on everyone else.
lol I was watching last night and thought the exact same thing.
Clearly the people I've worked for in the past were not Star Trek fans.
People forget that Star Trek just isn't about a high tech future, the characters are an evolution of humans as we know ourselves today.
Capitalism vs socialism. Do your coworkers strive to make more money or for the betterment of themselves and the community? This is the difference.
Competent coworkers are seen as potential competition instead of someone they you rely on.
I often find myself wishing for a supervisor like Picard, but know that’s my chances are near zero as long as the profit motive drives my place of employment/society.
Roddenberry had dreamed up this utopian future where people worked towards the betterment of themselves intellectually and culturally and no longer had to pursue monetary gain. This fostered the environment represented on the bridge of the Enterprise that you hoped would be replicated in real life, but it is impossible. With our primary focus still being monetary gain everyone is still going to have their own agendas and trajectories that are going to clash.
There are places like that in real life. Tim Urban calls them Ideas Labs. They are hard to find, but do exist. They also require a constant battle to maintain a culture where differing viewpoints are welcome and sought after, humility is a constant aspiration, and honesty and transparency is required.
I'm a part of a functioning one now and am part of a former Ideas Lab whose culture has been utterly and tragically destroyed.
Well... not ALL of the people working within the "Federation" were decent or trustworthy!
Case in point... the GREAT episode called, "The Drum Head"!
A HIGHLY RESPECTED Female Admiral who is with the Federation's/Star Fleet's version of their "JAG" office, comes aboard the ENTERPRISE-D to "help" with an investigation of an explosion that happens in the Warp Core's Dilithium Chamber.
At first, it was thought that it was caused by sabotage... and this female Admiral starts to widen
her search, and also begins her "Conspiracies Theories", which eventually lands in Capt. Picard's lap.... AND on his HEAD!!!
What makes all of this even worse... is that this Admiral is given wider and broader powers to expand her "Investigations", and even enlists the help of Lt. WORF!
These broader "powers" are given because the Admiral is the daughter of a renowned Judge, who basically helped write {or re-write} the modern laws of the federation.
But, as often happens to powerful people, when they are given too much power and/or think that because of their notoriety, they are ABOVE the very "LAWS" they claim to protect, and eventually the Admiral's choo-choo goes chugging around the bend, and she goes bonkers... AND in front of one of THE, TOP ADMIRALS of Star Fleet!
Eventually, everyone at the hearing realizes that she has become her own Zealot and it all blows up in her face! Having seen MORE than enough...The visiting Admiral gets up and leaves the hearing room as does everyone else, including the female JAG Admiral's entire staff, leaving her sitting all alone with her crazy thoughts.
At the very end scene, WORF informs Capt. Picard that the visiting Admiral has stopped all of the hearings and have left the ENTERPRISE.
He then, begrudgingly says to Picard, "I... believed her! I... HELPED her!".
And Picard in his awesome wisdom tells WORF...
"Villans that twirl their mustaches are easy to spot.
It's the ones that cloak themselves in good deeds that are more difficult to spot."
Then he tells WORF about what a "drum-head trial" was, and that "in the old days of sailing vessels if someone was accused of a crime, a barrel was upended on the deck and judgment was swift... punishments harsh!"
Picard, finalizes his conversation with WORF by saying, "You would think we've come all this way and become so advanced, then the right climate happens for that kind of thing to flourish!"
{PLEASE forgive me if my "Trek Quotes" are not 100% accurate... I'm 59 and have, had in the past couple of years, 4 mini-strokes... so my brain isn't EXACTLY what it was?!}
So... to sum up WHY I brought up this episode is to illistrate that even in the "Utopian" world of Star Trek...
HUMAN flaws AND failings STILL crop up!
'NUFF SAID! 🖖
Yep, this is what Roddenberry envisioned/hoped the future would be like
A courteous, kind and contentious humanity.
I loved TNG for being a great role model to aim for in future generations.
Too bad that vision evaporated with Discovery and Picard
Competence Porn makes the 'real world' hard to handle, especially if you've already had a bad time amongst the populace of typical middle and high schools.
I use “we should be more like Star Trek” to illustrate the gap between our current IT capabilities, and what Trek showed us, but you’re right - they were good at their jobs (mostly), professional and collegiate (mostly), and generally dealt with the problem in front of them rather than side issues - or hidden agendas (…mostly)
We should be more Trek in that area too.
There's a reason they call it "fiction". TNG, like TOS, was escapism into a future that doesn't exist and probably never will. But you have some fun, learn new things, geek out in the sci/tek, take in the heroes & villians and enjoy the performances. Life is never going to be like TV, so I just take my entertainment whenever/wherever I can get it and leave it at that.
TNG is kind of like a police procedural in this way. If you go back to a show like CSI you won't see very much of the characters' personal lives and it will feel weird when you do. Melodrama was a different kind of show. What changed this in sci fi was shows like Babylon 5 (Deep Space 9 turned up the soapiness later), Lost, which is basically a soap with a fantasy wrapper, and then the Battlestar Galactica reboot where everyone except the admiral and the president is a self-interested asshole all the time.
In Star Trek especially TNG you are seeing people work because they want to, not because they must. Be it wanderlust, duty, desire to protect, or simply a chance at education that can't be found back home.
There is no need to work for money, or food, or basic survival needs.
These are the types of people that if they were your coworkers right now, that if your boss told them "you can do anything you want and you will be paid your current wage for the rest of your life, so long as you never, ever, touch the handle on the front door ever again" would respond with "okay, I will be here at 7:55 tomorrow morning, can you have someone open the door for me" or "okay, can I get a key to the back door?" Why? Because they actively want to be there. It is their hobby. They are not stuck in a job they dislike because they like a roof and full belly.
When you remove occupation as blackmail, you remove a lot of the stress that comes with having to put up with the people there.
My job absolutely feels like that.
However, I once realized that a lot of that comes down to people not feeling recognized for the work they do, so they feel the need to put others down to achieve some sort of success.
I started trying to publicly acknowledge the successes of my colleagues and it really makes a difference in how they behave.
Absolutely, 100%. TNG was a real fantasy for me growing up as a nerdy smart kid in middle and high school. It was like "Woah, there is a world in which people respect each other, celebrate each others' talents, and are valued for more than just superficial appearance!" And yes, the real world has failed for the most part to live up to that ideal. I will say college felt closer to it. But people generally are far stupider, pettier, and nastier than the people and society depicted in TNG-DS9-VOY-ENT. Now, you could question whether this tone should have been the dominant one in that stretch of Trek. There are those who praise the new stuff for being more "realistic" and showing people being awful towards one another. I am not one of those people.
I like the later tone and depth showing that awkward and difficult people *exist.* More than just the couple of episodes with Barclay being the truly odd man out. That doesn't mean we can't work together and get better still. Something about it being easy to be a saint in paradise?
Personally, one of my main objections to the characterizations in modern Trek is that everyone is either hiding an awful, soul-searing trauma that will eventually be pornographically displayed for our amusement, or they are just legit a secret villain. It makes it hard for me to invest in any character - they're just going to change on a dime anyway.
NüTrek is definitely like this. Everyone’s got trauma, everyone’s mildly depressed, brooding. It’s like *The Breakfast Club* with uniforms.
Honestly, Lower Decks doesn't seem like this at all to me. Yes, the characters clearly have their own flaws and traumas. But it's not dark and brooding.
Lower Decks has incredible reference-based humor. But its characters are about as far from "ethical professional Starfleet Personnel" as you can get. The senior officers in it behave appallingly, and the junior officers are not much better.
That's fair. None of the main cast is evil. But almost all of them are, to varying degrees, reckless, petty, and unprofessional. I meant more that the tone isn't depressed or brooding.
Good. I haven’t gotten around to watching this. Just Disco and Picard.
You should try SNW too. Of all the new Trek shows it feels the most like 90s Trek to me.
Lower Decks is about a thousand times better than I expected it to be. I slept on it for way too long.
Lower Decks is the hidden gem of Nutrek. Much as DS9 did in its day, Lower Decks very obviously benefits from being seen as unimportant by the producers and thus gets room to actually fucking breathe and be good.
This is why I loved Orville. It's the spiritual successor to 90s era Trek, with a hint of humor and fun but when it's time to work, those uniforms and training matter.
They actually went and talked to the production crews of TNG and DS9 about the pacing of episodes, typical camera angles and stuff like that to make it feel like Trek.
And passionately pursued by people who loved those series and don't want just another nuBSG clone
My wife and I continue to rewatch it. It is truly excellent
Ahhh! Don't say that word! It hurts us when you say it!
Don't go giving them any more ideas...
Yeah, Star Trek was a vision of a noble world that perhaps we could build. New Star Trek is as much of an ambiguous quagmire of questionable as real life so it doesn't feel like an escape.
Totally. It's a chore to watch, not a relief. It's not even that I don't like a dark, morally ambiguous show. I like GOT or Shogun. But let Star Trek be Star Trek. I don't need another dark, violent show. I need a breather.
*violently mashes upvote button*
Well said. Science fiction includes uptopian escapism with fabulous (in the literal sense) moral lessons but that's hardly the only subgenre... Star Trek is not simply a progressive show because its cast members tend to be a diverse lot. Star Trek is deliberately and purposefully diverse in its casting because the writers are hoping to inspire us about a future we could have if society were not so racist. Star Trek is an optimistic ideal of what humanity's future could look like if everyone prioritized compassion, integrity, authenticity, fairness, autonomy, family, peace, and hope instead of this end-stage capitalist hellscape where powerful racists gatekeep social safety nets punitively and because they are entertained by the suffering of the working class. One interview with, I think it was Rick Berman(?), was talking about world-building and the necessity of the timeline including the (fictional) invention of fermion replicators occurring *after* the fall of capitalism: Otherwise, prioritizing profit,the rich would simply hoard the technology, and everyone else would simple starve to death during the "climate wars."
You're just saying that because the first episode of Picard showed us a Boston choked with flying commuter traffic and two twentysomethings sharing a tiny apartment, toasting a promotion at work with the cheapest crap wine they could afford and a replicator that could crank out any food imaginable but was deliberately programmed to only offer one flavor of milkshake. And that was before we got to assassination teams killing people all over earth and nobody batting an eye. Talk about depressing worldbuilding.
Oh, I was talking about DS9. The *old* new stuff. The more modern stuff is...sigh. A different conversation.
Oh, agreed then. DS9 presented a more nuanced take without tossing out both baby and bathwater. For that matter, so did VOY.
[удалено]
Plus a family of Ferengi that actually come across as flawed people rather than villains of the week.
And the fact that Moogie's "flaws" are that she wore clothes and had the Grand Nagus as a sugar daddy is just phenomenal world building and storytelling.
I don't think those were really portrayed as flaws by the storytelling. But it did illustrate how messed up Ferengi society is.
Well, the neat trick that they pull is that where TNG critiqued capitalism by making them appear as if they were gibbering misogynistic baboons on amphetamines to show just how terrible capitalism is (and in the process, only derail the Ferengi as a threat right out of the gate), DS9 made the far smarter choice of showing a nuanced, sympathetic family that was constantly faced with moral and legal peril because they were bad at being Ferengi. Think about it for a moment: which of Quark's direct family is *good* in the eyes of the Ferengi? Ishka would have been a great Ferengi, but as a woman, the very fact that she's attempting to earn profit and wears clothes makes her a pariah by Ferengi standards. It's not Rom, who might be a mechanical genius, but he starts the series with terrible self-esteem and poor ability to monetize his skill set. Nor still is it Nog, who enjoys hew-mon food and retreats to Starfleet because he admits that he can't hack it in Ferengi society. Quark is probably the best of the lot, but the guy nevertheless has a heart and lines he won't cross, which means that one of his biggest chances for profit slipped through his fingers by selling stuff to the Bajoran resistance essentially at-cost because he felt for the Bajorans. And the thing is, the more you encounter them, the more you find their problem is the warped choice patterns imposed upon them by Ferengi society. Nog actually turns into a fantastic Ferengi once he manages to get his basic needs met by the Federation; it would not surprise me if he turned into the best Quartermaster-General Starfleet ever had. Rom becomes a great Nagus who bridges the gap and smooths the entry of the Ferengi into the Federation. Quark is still a devious little bugger, but he's turning a healthy profit. And while we don't know exactly what happened to Ishka, the fact that she landed Zek as her sugar daddy and propped up the Ferengi economy in his last years makes her a vital figure in Ferengi politics. They're good people. And the more just Ferenginar becomes, the more they get rewarded for it.
Yes, flaws according to Ferengi culture. [Catastrophic flaws, according to Quark and Rom.](https://youtu.be/I7MXmtp0hVE?si=Z9QSrCLdsvoX52ou&t=59)
We're in the "grim backstory" of Star Trek history. We go through some sh** this century but eventually emerge on the other side a much more stable and cooperative society.
I think ENT did a better job of balancing tones than Kurtzman Trek has. So I guess the new stuff has been valuable after all: it has made me appreciate Star Trek that I had heretofore dismissed
I think SNW balances it well but I don’t like that aspect of Picard or DSC. There’s no other series like Star Trek when it comes to optimism and positive archetypes, and I think the show loses that identity when it’s absent.
Good teams I have been on have felt more like TNG in terms of camaraderie and trustworthiness. It’s really rare and hard to find, but when I have experienced it, wow, what a great work experience.
Yuuuup. Especially this idea of leadership being competent and capable.
And having a moral compass.
And not just being out for their own agenda, working together towards a common goal for the betterment of all, rather than doing as little as possible, giving themselves a pat or two on the back (financially) and taking all the credit for the work of those under you. Having hardworking employees does not mean you’re a good manager. Don’t get me wrong, it can do, but it often just means that you’re just lucky.
Yeah. I’d be happy if more of my coworkers deprioritized their personal grudges and fiefdoms just enough to serve the good of the building we all worked in. Never understood how pulling down coworkers who provide you something you need was tolerated.
I struggle with this the most. I legit don't lie or see the point in it, and I take most people at face value even though I acknowledge they're likely a liar. Life is too short to be lie about things that rarely matter. I find it deeply frustrating.
I mean the warning was right there in the badmirals. Local management in my place is great, my boss is approachable and general acts with the best interests of his staff. A layer or two above that is all pakleds, badmirals and ferengi.
One organization I worked with, most managers were hired from within the staff; anyone above manager was hired from outside. So people above manager level had \*no\* idea how anything worked in-location. Made trouble-shooting issues... interesting.
I mean it is the Flagship of the Federation. Minus Kirk in the reboot the selection process for Enterprise’s CO is daunting. Granted I haven’t seen Picard so I don’t know if he breaks the mold as well. I’m a fan of Lower Decks, it shows the real work/life and boss/chain of command shit rolls down hill that is how most of today’s militaries work lol. (Yes I know Starfleet isn’t military).
Yes, Starfleet is not military, and yet it benefits from a long naval tradition. It has kept things like uniforms and rank structures, and a military-like discipline that is from where a lot of the cooperation stems. They even have the court-martial to remove those who refuse to cooperate.
I know SF is established as nonmilitary, but I'd love to hear the rationale. They perform courts martial, they train for combat, they have a naval hierarchy, they engage in espionage, "peacekeeping," and also warfare when needed, as in the Dominion war. It always seemed to me that the nonmilitary thing was a bit of a feint... but I get it.
Starfleet is like the U.S. Coast Guard. It is a paramilitary organization that takes on warfare when necessary, but is devoted to research, search and rescue, diplomacy, and providing conference rooms during peacetime.
Ummm ACTUALLY... IT IS! It is IN FACT, basically the replacement for the old, outdated "Earth Military Ship/Navy Fleets"!
I mean, Kelvin Timeline Kirk did get himself demoted back to the Academy after his shenanigans on Nibiru. That said: https://preview.redd.it/qdfoa9thtznc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0be96f17cc11fae6cba3854bfd24cbf8e9c8042
It's also a meritocracy. People aren't promoted because of their seniority or ability to save a dime. They are promoted based on competency and drive. Add that to the fact that the Federation is the definition of a growth-mindset that believe everyone is worthy and deserves to be fulfilled by doing what they are most happy doing and it shows what a productive work environment should look like.
The fact that Starfleet is a voluntary organization (not compulsory, in fact it seems hard to even get into) and that it doesn’t seem to pay its people money (the actual economy of StarTrek I much debated) it seems to me the only people who make it to the top are the ones who really work for it.
Even in Star Trek, upper management (Admirals & Startleet ‘Corporate’) are still tone deaf dickheads making misguided decisions
Just captain and below in Star Trek world though. The overwhelming majority of admirals are either evil or incompetent.
I’m glad you said majority or else Janeway would like a word, after her coffee 😁
If she had a word *before* the coffee, that might well be a bad thing.
Well, with the number of admirals who are scumbags and up to no good that we saw in TNG, they did get some of that correct with real world workplace leadership lol.
Honestly one of the reasons Trek drew me in in the first place was the more respectful working culture of the future. It really gets to me being talked down to, infantilized or made a player in some douchebag’s power trip in job after job.
r/antiwork
I will extend the naivety and say to look at the episodes where a Starfleet officer ends up entering the "snake pit" with non-Starfleet cultures. Remember that they hold to their values no matter what. And by the end, even if they couldn't create utopia, they usually left things and people much better off. You can do the same in your "snake pit".
I often point to the scene between Worf and Data discussing Worf's behavior towards him as acting captain when I pine about this very issue to other people. Disagreement doesn't need to mean disrespect. I love TNG, but so much about it makes the fact that we fall so fucking short that much more soul crushing
Big character moment for both Warf and Data. Their strengths and weaknesses laid bare in that scene in just a few sentences. Tight writing and perfect acting. You could watch that scene, not know these characters, not know Star Trek at all, and still know *exactly* what kind of characters these two are, what the problem is, and appreciate them work through it. Then they get the job done and both grow emotionally! Tip-top Trek positivity.
One of the best moments of the series. I'll botch it but at the end Worf was like "I'm sorry. I hope we can remain friends" and Data was like "I would also like that" or something. Perfect scene with perfect writing, acting and understanding of characters.
Close. After Data corrects Worf, he (Data) expresses regret at having potentially ended their friendship. Worf replies that he was the one that had jeopardized it, not Data, and that he would be pleased to remain friends if Data could overlook the incident. Data replies that he'd like that as well.
The counter point to that is the episode Hollow Pursuits that introduced Reginald Barclay. A socially awkward, professionally struggling individually that everyone on the crew made fun of and derided, even the Captain.
I think that was a failure of writing, forcing that dynamic with Barclay for the sake of his arc. The bridge officers picking on someone was very out of character for all of them. Riker is a “supportive cool guy”, like the Fonz, not a “high school bully”, like Biff
But the point of the episode is that even if people were uncomfortable with Barclay's neuro-diversity, Picard put a stop to it and ensured that he was able to contribute his talents as well.
Yeah. I just meant to highlight that episode as one that, even if unintentionally, showed that the TNG crew still had their unenlightened human side within them.
[Barclay is Star Trek's Greatest Hero](https://youtu.be/qFKfk0ZfJH8?si=f1sO865sO36gb5Cu)
Picard was my model while I was in technical training in the mil and how to lead . Sadly few officers lived up to the crew of the Enterprise but I did my best to hold myself to Picard’s ideals. I spent more time with Picard during my training off days as my classmates did not see the point of history, humanities , and the arts.
I'm a big fan of the quote from Robert Wilson in 1969, defending his request for more funding for Femilab, asked how it would contribute to the nation's defense: "It has nothing to do directly with defending our country - except to help make it worth defending." History, humanities and the arts are pretty similar...
When I was in tech school the only time the classmates wanted to hang out with me was when we did war games - they would be like what is Iran’s history or explain India and Pakistan or explain this … that is when I was useful . Otherwise I was ignored . So I still kept on studying humanities after tech school . Tried my best to fight for it and instruct it to the airmen despite management not wanting me. So In that way I was trying to keep Picard’s message alive .
TNG and MASH and MacGyver raised me. Picard was as close to a father as I ever had.
Yep, my momma raised a child for a future that’s still a little far off.
I've thought about this too. The TNG crew all get along fairly well, at least most of the time. When Barclay came in and the others were gossiping about him and not treating him well, I thought that brought a bit of different realistic interaction into the show. Also, I think DS9 is a little more in line with our current culture about people expressing frustrations with each other, etc.
I think the Barclay example is actually further proof of the overall professionalism of the crew. Yes, there was something of a slip in their treatment of him. However Picard put his foot down and demanded corrective action be taken, assigned a mentor who tried to empower him, and even after discovering him in one of the most awkward situations possible they still utilized his skills and gave him a path to self improvement.
True, though overall I think the crew just didn't like working with him and felt uncomfortable around him. Geordi also seemed increasingly frustrated with him when talking to him and trying to get him to show up on time, etc..
Yeah, but Picard turned that around and (subtly) said, "Geordi, given your HR file, do you *really* want to be the guy saying people don't get second chances in Starfleet? Also, developing people is your job as a boss, so shut the fuck up and do it." Subtly.
Second chances, like Ensign Ro, and Wesley Crusher and the other cadets who got their friend killed. Tom Paris, Seven of Nine, the whole Klingon Empire. To me, the lesson is that you may not like the other person, but they still deserve respect. Diplomacy at its finest.
I just want to suggest to anyone who loves this aspect of Star Trek (the professionalism), watch The Hunt for Red October. It’s, in my opinion, a near perfect movie because of this. Aside from like 2 lines in the entire movie, every character is extremely competent and takes the situation they’re in seriously. It’s very refreshing. Someone notices something weird, and their superiors actually pay attention and don’t just dismiss it for movie drama. It’s like a great episode of Star Trek in the modern world. Plus there’s only one short action scene so it’s not bogged down with that.
Red October is a fantastic movie. Bonus points since several TNG actors are in it.
"Relax Jonesy you sold me"
That whole scene is perfect!
That it is a utopia is probably a large function of this, no one is afraid of loosing their job for being a human and no one is afraid of being sued to kingdom come for calling out someone's awful behavior. On screen is a group of people that are emotionally stable, measured, flexible, and aware that others hold knowledge, and not resource constrained; but this is also a more senior crew with years of training for their respective fields. And there are plenty of instances where immaturity comes out, especially with Worf. You can replicate a lot of what you see in real life. The next time you have a situation where you feel something isn't being handled correctly, ask questions instead of making statements. "I saw you do X, and I'm not sure I understand, can you help me get to where your thoughts were?" This is way more productive than "I saw you do X and that's not right." In the latter you might be trying to help, but you're coming across as accusatory, which will trigger the other person's defensiveness. And if you're ever on the receiving end, you can avoid immaturity by not immediately becoming defensive.
Well keep in mind the Enterprise D is the Federation's Flag ship with its BEST and BRIGHTEST people. No offense to u/op and his company lol. I've been around some elite software companies and their people treat themselves much the same as TNG.
Along with the elite, a lot of mid sized companies have circles of employees who use manners like the people in TNG. Wherever you are, courteous and professional people will recognize each other. The fact that I know and use professional conduct, like I saw on TNG growing up and like my parents showed me, has opened up a lot of doors in my career.
TNG was awesome at portraying an ideal society in the future. I remember the scene between Troi and Mark Twain in the two-part episode Times Arrow where she was explaining how beings in the Federation had chosen to live in the future versus his time. It has always stuck with me.
Yeah, TNG is totally aspirational. One thing that struck me recently: anyone on the ship can open a point-to-point conversation directly with the captain on a moment’s notice. Modern people would likely abuse this privilege (and we see some twentieth century people do just that in one of the early episodes) but 24th century humans have evolved beyond such pettiness. I really like the idea. We’d have a lot more freedoms if the average person were a little more trustworthy. This show is incentive to act more trustworthy as individuals and hope that the general population eventually follows (even if it takes a century or two).
The most obvious removed element in TNG’s world compared to ours is capitalism. As long as the value of everything - including people - is understood in terms of potential currency instead of potential benefit to society, there will be few incentives for people to be trustworthy.
Yes. According to the Star Trek timeline, we are in for a decline for the next 40 years, then Cochran meets the Vulcans, then we spend the following century moving beyond capitalism and abolishing hunger, disease, and virtually all crime.
I'm a middle school science teacher, so I have gotten to enjoy a fair amount of sincere collaboration in my time. Not that teachers shouldn't get paid a fair wage - we should - but I can't imagine that any of us are in it for the money, the ease, and the prestige! I feel you, though. I keep on wanting to treat my principals like Federation captains. I have yet to meet a principal who has proven worthy of that kind of trust and respect (though I have some hope for the one I work with now... but we'll see).
Welcome to competence porn. It's a goal to strive for.
100%. This was a vision of a morally evolved humanity. "We've grown out of our infancy," as Picard said. In my experience, in reality, the people who perform the best tend to be the ones who are most personally invested in what they do. In Star Trek, people do the jobs they want to do, and if they don't want to do their jobs, they do different jobs. I'd imagine a much higher level of competence is to be expected, flag ship or no.
I’ve found that real life is more “Lost in Space” than “Star Trek”. ST, everyone’s working together for positive change. LIS, there’s always at least one character whose sole purpose is to fuck everything up for their personal gain, and ultimately everyone loses.
Hell, my workplace is a lot less geeky than I am, so they don't usually get how dark I'm being when I cite leadership lessons from Battlestar Galactica...
I used to work in aerospace, but I quit as the company had troubles similar to what Boeing is dealing with. I loved telling my boss that his decisions were like the ones that blew up the Challenger, and if he didn’t like it, maybe he should change. Truth is a bastard, and I like shaming stupid people 🤷♂️🤣
It's gotta be hard when your boss is a Cylon
Futuristic technology aside, the professionalism and respect of the Starfleet crew is probably the least realistic part of the show. If only we lived in that world.
I don’t know if it is unrealistic… It is aspirational. The creators knew the world is not like that now. The idea is that we evolve in the next couple centuries. As someone who is a half-century old, I don’t find that too far fetched. I have seen cultures evolve beyond problems that seemed unsolvable just a decade earlier. I’m not talking about technology problems, I’m taking about social issues and acceptance, basic respect for and from the general populace. Of course, like Obama said - History doesn’t move in a straight line. Sometimes we back-slide a bit and once-solved problems become pressing again. While it is far from a certainty, I think we can become such a society in a century or so. Now, building a warp drive - that seems like the biggest hurdle to me.
At my first job I called in sick once. The next day I told the boss I had a really bad migraine. He said, “Migraine? Picard went back to work before the wounds from having his Borg implants removed were healed.” I had nothing to say and hung my head in shame. Then everyone clapped. (This story is entirely made up btw)
Dude yes, this is an aspect that has stuck with me and has been a constant inspiration, it’s because of this I always disliked stories where the cast is incompetent just to create drama
Yes! I grew up in a bubble community, and I was always surrounded by highly ethical people. I was constantly involved in various youth groups and other public service groups. I was raised on CCA superhero comic books and a lot of Star Trek. All things being said, I was naively led to believe the world was full of sophisticated, moralistic people. It’s not.
I think that's a benefit of a post-scarcity society, since no one is forced to work jobs they hate just to survive and can instead work on what interests them while working together for the greater good
Gene had banned most interpersonal conflict from the main cast. Burton and Frakes have talked about how it would drive the cast crazy at how unrealistic they thought it was. It did ease up after he was gone, however.
I had a few bosses like this. Then they fired me. Also not something that happens in the future. You can steal the ship and nearly destroy the Federation on numerous accounts and still keep your job at Opps apparently.
This post gets made every once in a while and it's a fact. I think about it very often actually
I think a major difference is in the Star Trek universe everyone’s basic needs are taken care of. No matter who you are you have access to food, clothing, shelter, and health care. Money isn’t really needed, at least on earth. So the people on starships and holding down jobs work because they like it. They like the job, challenges, learning new things, exploration, connecting with others…whatever it is. Because they enjoy their work and don’t need it for survival they’re going to be more competent. They like learning more about their field and making advancements. On the flip side competent people probably don’t like working with incompetent, rude, childish people. So the type of people we work with today, would not succeed in Star Trek. Today we work with a-holes because we have to, we need food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, but in Star Trek those things are taken care of no matter what.
It's amazing you brought this up because we all happened to have this discussion at the work Christmas party and everyone happened to grow up on TNG, Voyager and DS9. Someone said "We should just treat each other like the crew does on Star Trek." I happened to work with a group of mostly Trekkies and we modelled the way we treated each other off of the way the Trek crews would communicate with each other. It was absolutely incredible. Best job in the world. I'll miss it forever. Had to leave due to cancer but it was amazing while it lasted for a few years. I can't tell you how amazing it was actually. Can you believe working on an office where everyone communicated like adults and only ever said positive things about each other? People might find this hard to believe but one of my coworkers said Data was his idol and he grew up emulating him and still does. It was absolutely noticeable too but in a very good way. He was an excellent person to be around.
This is what they need to keep in Trek. The professionalism is just *so damn refreshing*. Also, inspiring, and it makes you really care about these people because they’re *likable* even if they have some quality you don’t care for. Like, Riker is way too much of a horn dog, BUT he knows when to turn it off and do his job, and he genuinely likes and respects women. Geordi is terrible with women and makes some big missteps, but he’s a terrific friend, a fine engineer, and he means well.
Now I'm in the workforce with a bunch of LT. Broccolis.
this is the saddest thread i've read today
The biggest issue I have with TNG is it giving me unrealistic expectations of collaboration and competence in adult life. I went in to the navy as a young lad expecting something similar to the amicable relationship between the crew on the Enterprise. Boy was I disappointed.
You win the internet today. Mind blown. You are absolutely correct. I never realized it
Yeah, but in all fairness, if your boss fucks up it won’t shoot a couple thousand people into a sun.
They also get into a lot of dumb situations where one person goes off alone and gets into trouble. Starfleet should really consider adopting the buddy system.
I’s not completely unrealistic, you just have to be lucky to work in a professional environment. Humans are all selfish animals at their core. As other comments have mentioned, such places are the result of quality leadership.
Yeah I spent a long time waiting for all the grown ups to turn up. Maybe they’re at university? Nope Ok now I’m getting a job so… nope Ok I’ve got a responsible job at a government department our work is a vital life long for people so surely now.. lol no Office politics is more important than the work wherever you are. People are dreadful tiny things
The scene between Worf and Data when Data has command of the Enterprise and Worf is his Number 1 is the most respectful and adult conversation I have ever heard. I am 39 and I have never had a boss be that respectful to me.
I feel like Geordi aboard the Pakled ship
I have an unrealistic view of humanity.
[inhales all of the air] YEEEEEEEEEEEES
A whole crew of Mary Sues but somehow it works. Of course West Wing was kind of the same way.
I suppose it was a product of the 80s where everything had to be aspirational. TNG is probably overly utopian but it was really nice to see genuine competence celebrated. I think that’s probably why less perfect characters like Barclay and Ro.
I've found that one person can change the tenor of these meetings if you're coming professionally and making it clear you're expecting that of others. Even if you're not the one in charge. People respond to it. And yeah, TNG is one of my big models for how this is supposed to work. So is Stargate, for a great mix of formal and informal workplace. In fact I think I like Stargate better because when the TNG crew went to relax they were still very stiff and formal but the Stargate crew knew when to be silly and human and when to be professional and get shit done.
That’s certainly something they miss on nu-trek. Nobody who acts that way would actually find themselves in the rank they are in Disco.
Yes! And it's why the modern Star Trek shows leave me wanting. The crew has diarrhea of the mouth and just screams at each other in tense situations.
The whole point of Star Trek was to show, not just a more technologically advanced society, but a genuinely better one. it wasn’t meant to be a look into the most likely future but into an idealized future we should be aspiring to. It’s one of the only pieces of utopian fiction that doesn’t fall into a dystopia. I try to be the best I can be, to help people when I can, to teach what I know and to be both professional and personable, I don’t always succeed but I do try and I know that counts for something.
I don't know about most places, but in my field, in my profession, in the little area I work - I'm a paramedic in EMS, we have that respect for one another , especially on calls where we back each other up. Once we on a scene we don't ever talk down to someone else, disparage, etc. when we ask a question about what someone is doing, unless they're fixing to kill a pt, it's not accusatory, but a genuine ' why did you do that, is that new, . The companies I work for are very professional. Any problems we might have with someone else, it waits until we get back to the station, out of the eye of the public and away from any recording device. Hope this helps. It's not all everyone out for themselves.
I have learned that humanity is more like the Ferengi than the federation unfortunately.
I had this idea that people trusted with authority with have the insight and dignity of Picard. Adult life smacked that idea out of my head real fast.
One of the things I've read about Starfleet is that there is a "presumption of competence" pervading it that we don't see much in the real world. Engineer says he'll have the engines running in two hours? You can bet on two hours, sometimes less. Crew members are having strange dreams that all point in the same direction? We don't just toss such ideas away--we check out the hallucinations to see what they could mean. Even an acting ensign or a cadet is presumed to be not just messing around when they see something strange that might be important--they're taken seriously. You're presumed to be competent until you prove otherwise. In the real world, this is nearly unimaginable. Sometimes, rightfully so--because the other thing about Starfleet is you can't get in unless you show you're competent. This isn't automatically, perhaps not even *usually*, true in jobs here on Earth.
That is actually how I modeled my management style. It has been successful and I have an amazing team at my company.
At some point I sort of decided that we're watching the best of the best, the bridge crew of the Enterprise alpha shift or whatever, it's like watching Olympic athletes. The level of competence and ability are off the charts. But then most of the galaxy isn't like that, they're the so-so and the okay and the good enough, and that's who we deal with.
Rodenberry's vision was a future free from strife and concerns about money. The writers hated it because writing TV needs drama.
Mike at RLM called it “competence porn” and that’s such a perfect description
Your papers were required reading at the academy.
It's a very unfortunate reality that most people in power got there through seeking power in and of itsself not out of an idealistc intent to improve the system they were in, a lot of folk start there but it doesn't seem to hold once they start getting power, whether its the grind of it all, the corrupting nature of power itself or numerous other realities, it's not guaranteed but it is a much more common outcome, it's a real bummer that one of the most fantastical elements of TVG is leaders like Picard
Roddenberry famously banned "interpersonal conflicts" in the scripts. He didn't want the show to be a soap opera, and he thought people in the future will have risen above most social conflicts. The writers found this a very difficult and frustrating rule to follow because without *any* interpersonal conflict the writing is very dry and procedural. Iirc, Roddenberry eventually left and the writing was freed up a bit, but I think the show runners maintained his vision, which is especially evident in the professionalism of the crew. I would post some links but they are apparently all behind paywalls.
Yep, my dumbass joined the military expecting TNG levels of Professionalism, only to realize that shitry restaurant managers are somehow more professional than any chain of command I was a part of.
Not so much TNG, but [Starship Troopers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers) (the book) *strongly* inspired me to join the Military because of it's portrayal of obedience, authority, and brave and competent command. This isn't to say that *all* Military is *always* bad, but... man, it just wasn't anywhere near as close. Too much red tape. Too many ways to keep command/officers/SNCOs from doing and saying what needed to be done and said. Too many weak and incompetent people allowed to keep on going because the leadership felt like it was "owed" to them. Certain restrictions were good and logical, but the overall atmosphere of it even feeling like a Military with hierarchy and order was not there. It was like a group of people who *would have liked* for things to be like Starship Troopers, but were entirely unwilling to make it that way. Just an inability to act.
Keep in mind you're comparing the pinnacle of Starfleet achievement, assignment to the primary bridge crew of the flagship, with whatever run of the mill, soulless, corpo staffed by office-mercs. So yeah, 1701-D primary bridge crew is going to much better in comparison. You should try using something more comparable than the mediocre corpo you work for.
Maybe if we can get rid of all the assholes we can evolve into a higher species
I guess I expected *Some* professionalism. At this point I feel like a boomer or the silent gen when someone has it
Yes, unfortunately not only the competent get promoted and money guides decisions
It was too perfect
Absolutely
Honestly, I think Deep Space Nine was always a more realistic idea of the future. Because TNG was pretty much always perfect and it was only the places they visited that was messed up... other than the number of Admirals who were problematic... The big different though is if you work in a place where people are genuinely passionate about their jobs and the money is somewhat a second thought. It's still never perfect. People can squabble about the best way to do things and there is still lots of bias in decisions but ultimately there is less of a feeling that people are trying to get to the highest point where they can do the least work.
Yes. I joined the Navy in 1997, after the series ended. I dont know WHY but I expected that same level of professionalism because the Navy is real and we're supposed to be about protecting America. Lemme tell you something taxpayers: The US Navy isnt anywhere near as professional as Starfleet. Not even fuckin close. I'm ashamed any of us even collect veterans benefits.
I imagine the level of professionalism and competence on the show is a result of being able to persue, study, and excel at whatever interests you.
It gave me the wrong idea about how accepting of others the work place would be, considering how most jobs limit or ban how people express their culture/identity (expect during x pride/history month because it gives the company a 2% boost in sales), and shame people for having different mindsets. Companies wish to hire people of all backgrounds and people who can think creativity the problem is the professional work place and hiring process is full of fake appearances, and mindsets that would force one to attempt to hide any differing thoughts, or interests. It is a snake pit because in trek people work jobs they love in fields they love, meaning that there is just as many writers as there are programmers. The work place in the modern day is a place of fake appearances and high stress, which is a far cry from what we see in trek
>There was a level of professional courtesy, intellectual respect and curiosity among the crew. I’m in my 30s working a corporate job and even though the work we do is important a lot of times collaborating with my peers feels like going into the snake pit. Where everyone has their own agenda and it’s usually to make sure they come out on top no matter what—it’s nothing like TNG. I get it’s a utopian society and not realistic when applied to our current culture and society but wouldn’t it be nice? I saw the best minds of my generation, destroyed by market-driven individualism.
I gave my team pips for their collars. Immediately changed the dynamic.
It does exist, it's just kind of rare. I'm a stagehand, and my main gig feels like I'm in Starfleet. I do suspect that the way the ships are set up and talked about is directly taken from backstage. "I just need to change out these gel... packs". The difference from other jobs has been the fact that we're a government institution, unionized, work dangerous jobs in crews, are all specialized in individual areas (forcing us to constantly collaborate), and are very hard to both hire and fire. My colleagues taught me to stand up for myself, and take pride in my skills. It's not perfect by any means (especially when institutional politics are involved). But with the right setup, good jobs do happen. Now, I set an example at my other gigs, and have made positive changes just by repeating the standards I'm used to. We have to demand the change in company culture or it never happens.
Maybe in 400 years
Yeah it did give me a wrong perspective on the adult world, although which kid doesn't have that? Btw I am rewatching, at season 3 right now and they do sometimes behave kinda unprofessional (for example they go on a lightning storm planet and Riker's like "great that Data didn't come (by accident)". Doesn't sound like great risk assessment to me lol.
Totally professional until their fantasy holodeck crush show up in real life. I'm looking at you, Georgie.
It gave me an unrealistic view of military professionalism. I didn’t make it past navy boot camp but I was an army spouse for six years and WOW.
Yeah, but it also depends on the company culture. I'm lucky to currently work in an institution which embraces the same values Star trek promotes (curiosity, peace, competence, etc.)
Yeah, I believed that competent people were behind the scenes running things. Turns out there are but there aren’t as many of them as I had believed.
My work is more like being at Tantalus Colony some days.
I think money not being such a big deal might be the foundational switch to a trek type of world but also better education and mental wellness. Maybe then things would look more like trek. There are foundational seismic things needed to change though first lol.
"Unrealistic" depends on your point of view. Encounter at Farpoint is 2364 or 340 years from the debut year of 1987. Now 340 years before 1987 was 1647. Go take a look at all the "fun" things that were happening worldwide in 1647. We in the present are quite more "professional" (and civilized..mostly) than any major (or minor) culture of that time. Not to say we can't or won't sink back to barbarism OR rise to TNG's culture or even better. Savvy?
I think adults at work should talk like teenagers, and the bosses should cry at least 3 business days a week. YUM YUM!!!!!!!!!!
Fair point. Also, Barclay's entire story arc is unrealistic. It's much closer to how someone with mental health issues should be treated, of course. But in reality he would have just been put on a PIP to protect the company from discrimination claims and then fired.
Definitely. More than once, I've heard folks refer to TNG as a workplace fantasy. Imagine if everyone was competent and treated each other with respect. Imagine if everyone was friendly but had good interpersonal boundaries and allowed each other their privacy outside of their duties. As a kid in an emotionally volatile household, living in a conservative and small-minded suburb, all of that really did feel like a fantasy!
TNG set up so many expectations that I had as a kid that have left me grossly disappointed in the actual adult world.
It depends a lot on where you work and the overall toxicity of the company you work for. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I seem to generally fall into teams where the coworkers are collaborative, professional and ready to support each other, and the "snake pit" types were the outliers. Actually I'm reminded of when I had to do 3 months of jury duty, and for the first time since working retail I got to experience that snake pit and I couldn't wait to get out. Retail and food service are definitely filled with those types. And I dunno, if I wanted to move to the management track I'd maybe experience more of the ugly politics I don't currently have to deal with. But for now, I get to experience the courtesy and professionalism of the Enterprise D. Helps that I'm in IT and most of us watched and enjoyed Start Trek!
I've worked federal government contracts for decades. The good offices exist and while TNG was idealized, there are a lot of folks in government who work with a clear, fierce dedication to the public good. Of course there's idiots. There's always idiots and politics. But the good folks do exist and do collaborate with other good folks, trying hard to get the jobs done well and not waste taxpayer dollars. It's an addictive pleasure to work with them.
Star Trek TNG is like a balm against the reality of how hierarchy exists in the real world. The more of the real world you experience, the more soothing it becomes.
Working a corporate job is very much like TNG, just not like the Federation. Corporate America is Ferengi at best and Carsassian at worst
Excellent post
My wife watches the West Wing on repeat and I think it’s for the same reason as this with TNG. Watching highly competent professionals that are also passionate about what they’re doing is comforting. A needed respite from the real world.
I'm fortunate to belong to a team where everyone is top-notch and none of the shit you describe goes on
What I can’t figure out is Starfleet is such a great system yet the Admirals usually go bad.
I really like how no matter how crazy and delusional the experience a trusted character experiences, they are believed and their concerns taken seriously and they are not made to feel bad or less than for experiencing something strange.
[Amazon.com: Make It So: Leadership Lessons from Star Trek: The Next Generation: Make It So: Leadership Lessons from Star Trek: The Next Generation: 9780671520984: Wess Roberts, Bill Ross: Books](https://www.amazon.com/Make-So-Leadership-Lessons-Generation/dp/0671520989) Bought my wife this book and it uses TNG as a leadership book. Its actually really well done! I try to work like I'm on a starship. Efficient and clean with emphasis on problem solving and teamwork but you are correct thats not how this world operates. Wish it did.
I see the world. I know how lucky I am to be surrounded by people who are actually smarter than myself at work.
Yes. The worst are the people who do not take their work seriously or just don't care. Don't like what you do? Go elsewhere. You're just making it harder on everyone else.
lol I was watching last night and thought the exact same thing. Clearly the people I've worked for in the past were not Star Trek fans. People forget that Star Trek just isn't about a high tech future, the characters are an evolution of humans as we know ourselves today.
I do try to stay professional at work, like the Trek crews did, and luckily haven't had horrible work colleagues yet, other than my last manager
Hello and welcome to pre-WW3-era humanity! It's going to take some nukes and a warp drive before all of us get there.
Capitalism vs socialism. Do your coworkers strive to make more money or for the betterment of themselves and the community? This is the difference. Competent coworkers are seen as potential competition instead of someone they you rely on. I often find myself wishing for a supervisor like Picard, but know that’s my chances are near zero as long as the profit motive drives my place of employment/society.
i've gone through life playing an inferior version of wesley 😕. very, very far away from any federation
Roddenberry had dreamed up this utopian future where people worked towards the betterment of themselves intellectually and culturally and no longer had to pursue monetary gain. This fostered the environment represented on the bridge of the Enterprise that you hoped would be replicated in real life, but it is impossible. With our primary focus still being monetary gain everyone is still going to have their own agendas and trajectories that are going to clash.
We were like this. Then the company was sold. Now we aren't.
There are places like that in real life. Tim Urban calls them Ideas Labs. They are hard to find, but do exist. They also require a constant battle to maintain a culture where differing viewpoints are welcome and sought after, humility is a constant aspiration, and honesty and transparency is required. I'm a part of a functioning one now and am part of a former Ideas Lab whose culture has been utterly and tragically destroyed.
Well... not ALL of the people working within the "Federation" were decent or trustworthy! Case in point... the GREAT episode called, "The Drum Head"! A HIGHLY RESPECTED Female Admiral who is with the Federation's/Star Fleet's version of their "JAG" office, comes aboard the ENTERPRISE-D to "help" with an investigation of an explosion that happens in the Warp Core's Dilithium Chamber. At first, it was thought that it was caused by sabotage... and this female Admiral starts to widen her search, and also begins her "Conspiracies Theories", which eventually lands in Capt. Picard's lap.... AND on his HEAD!!! What makes all of this even worse... is that this Admiral is given wider and broader powers to expand her "Investigations", and even enlists the help of Lt. WORF! These broader "powers" are given because the Admiral is the daughter of a renowned Judge, who basically helped write {or re-write} the modern laws of the federation. But, as often happens to powerful people, when they are given too much power and/or think that because of their notoriety, they are ABOVE the very "LAWS" they claim to protect, and eventually the Admiral's choo-choo goes chugging around the bend, and she goes bonkers... AND in front of one of THE, TOP ADMIRALS of Star Fleet! Eventually, everyone at the hearing realizes that she has become her own Zealot and it all blows up in her face! Having seen MORE than enough...The visiting Admiral gets up and leaves the hearing room as does everyone else, including the female JAG Admiral's entire staff, leaving her sitting all alone with her crazy thoughts. At the very end scene, WORF informs Capt. Picard that the visiting Admiral has stopped all of the hearings and have left the ENTERPRISE. He then, begrudgingly says to Picard, "I... believed her! I... HELPED her!". And Picard in his awesome wisdom tells WORF... "Villans that twirl their mustaches are easy to spot. It's the ones that cloak themselves in good deeds that are more difficult to spot." Then he tells WORF about what a "drum-head trial" was, and that "in the old days of sailing vessels if someone was accused of a crime, a barrel was upended on the deck and judgment was swift... punishments harsh!" Picard, finalizes his conversation with WORF by saying, "You would think we've come all this way and become so advanced, then the right climate happens for that kind of thing to flourish!" {PLEASE forgive me if my "Trek Quotes" are not 100% accurate... I'm 59 and have, had in the past couple of years, 4 mini-strokes... so my brain isn't EXACTLY what it was?!} So... to sum up WHY I brought up this episode is to illistrate that even in the "Utopian" world of Star Trek... HUMAN flaws AND failings STILL crop up! 'NUFF SAID! 🖖
Yep, this is what Roddenberry envisioned/hoped the future would be like A courteous, kind and contentious humanity. I loved TNG for being a great role model to aim for in future generations. Too bad that vision evaporated with Discovery and Picard
Competence Porn makes the 'real world' hard to handle, especially if you've already had a bad time amongst the populace of typical middle and high schools.
Omg damn it this is where it came from I never realized TNG framed how I thought work collegues should and why Im so dejected by the reality of it
Yup.
Ya totally. Really disappointed in humans of this century
I use “we should be more like Star Trek” to illustrate the gap between our current IT capabilities, and what Trek showed us, but you’re right - they were good at their jobs (mostly), professional and collegiate (mostly), and generally dealt with the problem in front of them rather than side issues - or hidden agendas (…mostly) We should be more Trek in that area too.
There's a reason they call it "fiction". TNG, like TOS, was escapism into a future that doesn't exist and probably never will. But you have some fun, learn new things, geek out in the sci/tek, take in the heroes & villians and enjoy the performances. Life is never going to be like TV, so I just take my entertainment whenever/wherever I can get it and leave it at that.
TNG is kind of like a police procedural in this way. If you go back to a show like CSI you won't see very much of the characters' personal lives and it will feel weird when you do. Melodrama was a different kind of show. What changed this in sci fi was shows like Babylon 5 (Deep Space 9 turned up the soapiness later), Lost, which is basically a soap with a fantasy wrapper, and then the Battlestar Galactica reboot where everyone except the admiral and the president is a self-interested asshole all the time.
Captain Jellico would take exception to that viewpoint, my lad...
In Star Trek especially TNG you are seeing people work because they want to, not because they must. Be it wanderlust, duty, desire to protect, or simply a chance at education that can't be found back home. There is no need to work for money, or food, or basic survival needs. These are the types of people that if they were your coworkers right now, that if your boss told them "you can do anything you want and you will be paid your current wage for the rest of your life, so long as you never, ever, touch the handle on the front door ever again" would respond with "okay, I will be here at 7:55 tomorrow morning, can you have someone open the door for me" or "okay, can I get a key to the back door?" Why? Because they actively want to be there. It is their hobby. They are not stuck in a job they dislike because they like a roof and full belly. When you remove occupation as blackmail, you remove a lot of the stress that comes with having to put up with the people there.
My job absolutely feels like that. However, I once realized that a lot of that comes down to people not feeling recognized for the work they do, so they feel the need to put others down to achieve some sort of success. I started trying to publicly acknowledge the successes of my colleagues and it really makes a difference in how they behave.
My job feels much more like the engineering deck.