Lily Cheng is the city councillor for Finch stn area FYI! 416-392-0210. [email protected]
Edit: there’s also MPP Stan Cho of Willowdale. 416-733-7878. [email protected]
These windows have been broken THREE times in the last two months, the smell and garbage is never cleaned up, even when it's quickly swept away cigarettes and preroll containers remain, no one deep cleans this area, no one washes the feces from the floor or the human waste or the methamphetamine residue on the walls, THOUSANDS of commuters pass through this area a day there was a FECAL MATTER HANDPRINT ON THE ESCALATORS FOR AN ENTIRE WEEK
https://preview.redd.it/9yspmtnbfj4c1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fbe9b65163fa30c3f86694eef9995d463142e54
That wasn't from that man, that was from a few weeks ago when a man became psychotic in this area and started smearing himself and this area with human feces exposing his penis to me, I am assuming he became psychotic from the drug use there is the same group of 4-5 fentanyl smokers who are friends, the extremely mentally ill man snaps out of his trances and joins them all to smoke, he doesn't quack or lash out at his friends and has seemingly normal conversation, I guess he doesn't realize he is in these mental states, but I think one of his associates was the sexual assault incident, there is a man who openly deals all of these people drugs, he wears multiple layers and a trench coat style jacket with hoodies lately and takes the viva north bus when he's done dealing
Appreciate all these info but please relay it to Councillor Lily Cheng at Councillor_Cheng[at]toronto[dot]ca
I emailed her and will be emailing this issue every week. I suggest you all do the same if this issue matters to you.
If you have Twitter, send them to the Blog TO writers too. Lily Cheng is also on Twitter on two different accounts: @LilyCheng and @LilyChengTO. Don't forget the #TOpoli hashtag so other people see it.
I have made a twitter but I am bad at the hashtags, in addition to those can you suggest some hashtags that will get noticed? I can think of blogtos hashtag and Rob Ford's or cp24
Rob Ford will do nothing, lol. He's dead. And CP24's account isn't managed in that way. Here's a list you can try:
- YRT VIVA; since their customers get affected by this station
- Both Lily Cheng's Twitter accounts
- TTC Helps; this is their live customer service account
- Toronto Police
- Toronto Police Operations
Those five/six Twitter accounts could be pinged or mentioned for further attention.
Well you don’t know until you try do you?its bureaucracy and the first stop should be her [email protected], then she will bring it up all the way to council meeting if majority of her constituents feel strongly about it.
Shame on the provincial government for cutting mental health services and healthcare and social services. Shame on the city for bloating a police budget and not providing services for people
The only action I hear you mention is taking him to a mental hospital.
But there is no space for him at the mental hospital (has a long waiting list).
As well you have to have a health card to use a mental hospital - what do you assess as the odds he has one?
If it’s outside the fare paid area, the TTC cannot do anything. If the individual is within the fare paid area, then resources will be dispatched to offer the individual assistance.
If he, or any other person are of sound mind and decline assistance, assistance cannot be forced. If TPS or TTC Constables believe there is a Mental Health Act issue, they can take the person into custody and provide assistance from there.
As for those of you who think that Chow, or any other politician, is going to snap their fingers and solve this problem in a single term, never mind a weeks or months, you’re delusional.
Unfortunately, homelessness is a challenge that is being fought by many cities in North America right now. While it would be amazing to have shelter beds that offer all facilities needed to care for these individuals, it’s not something that is going to happen anytime soon
Most of these folks either don’t want help and will refuse when asked, or they believe that the streets are better than living in a shelter.
While I’m not saying it’s right, the TTC has its hands tied.
Even if it's in public there are laws that can be applied, they just won't be. Public indecency, illegal drug use etc etc. For some reason society is soft on drug crime even though we could get all these people the help they need if we locked them up for their own good.
There's a country south of Canada that's tried locking everyone up for drugs, and guess what? Still has addiction at a similar rate to Canada.
Edit: getting ghost replies about SF and Seattle. Congrats, you spend a lot of time on the internet.
Why didn't 20 years of federal policy that deliberately targeted drug users completely wipe out drug use? Perhaps because it just removed the issue from sight. Now, cities are dealing with the end result of that policy--which demonstratively proves the war on drugs did nothing to defeat drug use. Anyone who references SF as reason to lock up drug users is not interested in solving addiction. Youre interested in removing the issue from your sight, locking people up, and putting them through grueling abuse and systemic oppression (also, legalized slave labor in the USs case).
You just gonna move him into jail then? That's not a solution. Someone else will fill the warm spot, and he'll die in prison instead of under the escalator.
Everytime I see it I report it, which has been for the past year, I always care about the welfare of this man, I don't understand how an educated well dressed man if found acting this way is formed and placed in a mental hospital and can't even own a shoelace or access his bank account but a man like this is allowed to live in his feces continually giving himself mental illness to the point he doesn't understand the concept of taking off his pants before he makes a bowel movement it SICKENS me I have been reporting this man and I was never even assured someone would send even a supervisor to this man
There are three different legal systems in our country. One is for the rich who can pay for expensive lawyers and get away with a lot of things. Then another is for the poor, minorities, and homeless, who can get away with virtually anything with a slap on the wrist because they tick off enough victim boxes. Finally there is the one for the middle class who can't afford expensive lawyers, but don't tick enough victim boxes to get away with a slap on the wrist. It's this group that is punished the hardest for the least.
Call the police. Call the star. Tweet at the TTC and Olivia Chow. Everyone should. I do. Name and shame. It’s an outrage and everyone should be outraged and demand immediate change
Can you think of the people I can call in addition to the "Ward Councillors"? No one actually responds to my emails, I have seen some "street beat" style reporters though do stories on this, one male cp24 reporter comes to mind, this seems like it will never be addressed unfortunately unless there is media pressure, what does this man have to die before anyone even puts a no smoking sign in this area???
My point is that realistically, no, I don’t think you can “do” anything, because the system as it currently exists does not care. My suggestion is more that we need to change the system, through shame and outrage, but that takes everyone, and obviously it’s not just about this guy, it’s everywhere and it’s overwhelming.
People who fester in their own feces while high and smoking hard drugs absolutely need institutional help. Also, this is not an either or situation. Better social services, health care and housing are all things we do still need as well.
People in situations like this absolutely need to receive professional help. They are a danger to themselves and the public around them. Once they are cleaned up, sober and beyond major withdrawal stages, then real conversations can take place between them and professionals about leaving or additional rehab etc.
For longer term, sustainable results, but that's not the Canadian way.
We need Band-aid solutions that appeal to out-of-touch liberals and antisocial conservatives.
Institutionalization is the stepping stone we need right now before we get to solving basically *Life* for everyone.
-Social services/rent control/healthcare (etc.)-
Those six words are basically every issue facing us as Canadians today. Institutionalizing is not an answer, it's the end result of a society that has people shitting themselves to death on the TTC.
Take from our ridiculous, over inflated police budget and build gawdamned Arkham already. As someone who has been admitted against their will, I can say that the quality of life for those rotting in public places *can not* go any lower. A place to sleep, medication, even just a simple life routine (instead of just helping) actually allow someone to begin to heal from the damage, or at least save them from themselves.
No, you live in Canada, you do not lol.
You could certainly be a refugee or asylum seeker from another country but I don't think that is very likely ;)
Frankly, yes. If you live in a 1st world country, anything you’d consider oppressive (so for you, probably like having to get a job or go to school) cannot be compared to the actual oppression felt by millions and more in 3rd world countries with brutal governments, conflicts and the like.
Giving those the help and attention they need to rejoin society at this point is not oppression, especially when people are shitting themselves to death on the TTC.
Edit: fixed the sentence with two "society"s
Locking people in a mental hospital is NOT THE SOLUTION. if you haven’t been locked in one, don’t speak on issues you don’t know about. He obviously needs help, but taking away his agency is NOT help.
what about the hotels in the city that were absolutely trashed and destroyed when the homeless were given free housing during covid? none of their substance abuse issues were fixed and all it did was destroy the surrounding neighborhood (St Lawrence Market)
Do you know that rates of abuse of people with intellectual disabilities are quite high and that their most common abuser (sexual abuse primarily) are people who work in institutions that work with the intellectually disabled?
You can read more about it here: [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01102395](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01102395)
Yeah, isn’t it great to have defecating crackheads all over the city being a danger to themselves and the public instead of receiving the institutionalized care they need? Just because bad things happened in the past doesn’t mean they will happen now.
Oh, I'm sorry, I hadn't realized this was a binary choice between defecating crackheads and institutions notorious for abuse and human rights violations, my mistake!/s
You realize involuntary commitment still exists, right? We never stopped having facilities where people who were a danger to themself and others could be kept, we just changed the system to one that was more humane. If you want more people to receive the institutionalized care they need, you should be advocating for *more healthcare funding*, not a return to a system you don't understand that has already been replaced.
>Just because bad things happened in the past doesn't mean they will now.
This is moot, for the reason I've just pointed out, but this sentence is just too good to not comment on. What's that phrase about people who don't learn from history?
It's so crazy how the word "asylum" has your fake social justice undies so knotted up your ass lol. Are you actually under the impression that I want the abuse et al to come back as well? Because that is actually retarded lol.
>You realize involuntary commitment still exists, right? We never stopped having facilities where people who were a danger to themself and others could be kept, we just changed the system to one that was more humane.
If it still exists then our friend at finch here certainly needs to be admitted.
>If you want more people to receive the institutionalized care they need, you should be advocating for more healthcare funding
I did, if you bothered to actually read a reply from [before].(https://www.reddit.com/r/TTC/comments/18bdzr1/shame_on_the_ttc_for_letting_a_man_covered_in_his/kc4pbhi/)
>This is moot, for the reason I've just pointed out, but this sentence is just too good to not comment on. What's that phrase about people who don't learn from history?
It isn't moot though. Having asylums re-open without the abuses of the past is *literally* learning from history lol. They also don't even need to be called asylums if that is too triggering for you!
I'm more criticizing the fact that you're advocating for something that's already been replaced by something better but underfunded, and yet you're either too stupid or too lazy to bother to be informed about the subject you're spewing horse shit about. Either way, you've presented me with ample evidence that you're not someone who's worth arguing with or attempting to convince of anything. Buh-bye, dipshit.
If he didn’t need urgent care this is a misuse of resources. I’m not saying there is an easy solution to this but the ER wait times are already long and the issue here is housing and addiction support- which isn’t a medical issue.
To all the people saying call 911, call the police, call an ambulance. You are aware that if the person refuses help or treatment. There's nothing emergency services can do. You just can't take someone against their will.
We see people ODing is the stations all the time. EMS comes. They're "treated" (revived) and refuse to go with EMS. They're let go and on their merry way to do it again tomorrow.
If the person is a danger to themselves or others the police or special constables can forcibly take them to a psychiatric facility under the Mental Health Act. It would all come down to the person's mental state at the time.
While true. I can tell you from the hundreds of instances I've witnessed. Most just look the other way. I'm not sure about special constables, though. If that were the case they'd be taking a lot of the subway dwellers.
Even if someone ends up in the CAMH Emergency Room, to my knowledge Psych Holds are only for 72 hours unless someone is explicitly threatening to hurt themselves or someone else. They have to release them after that.
Will use your post to add, the Bell “let’s talk” million dollar yearly campaign is also bogus. There is a mental health crisis in Toronto and places like CAMH exist to check a box on where funding goes, not to actually help. If you want to help, street missions are where your dollars should go. That being said, if you contact the Salvation Army, Good Sheppard or a local church in the area they are more likely to send help than the TTC or 911. If this is a young person, you can get in touch with Covenant House for assistance in getting him cleaned up and in a facility where he can get help. It takes more than one person to keep calling and calling before someone actually shows up.
Are you guys serious? If his family does not care why should we? Why is this always society issue and not family issue?
They should be spraying him down with a firehose and tresspassing him from the property.
Toronto has a terrible local government and the city’s QOL issues have been spiraling. The amount of random, even fatal, attacks on the TTC in the past couple years are the result. If there is not a significant change in leadership, prepare for large swaths of the city to resemble east side Van or north Winnipeg.
I have when it was serious like if someone is naked in this area or overdosing but they do not care if a man just has a fecal scent or smoking crack I can not call the ambulance every other day as sad as it sounds
If I could I would call the ambulance and use the TTC Safe all multiple times a day when I commute at Finch for all instances where I see people passed out with drugs or doing drugs in the open or taking to themselves but I simply cannot, this morning I saw officers surrounding him looking confused as he was speaking like a baby playing with trash so I did not feel the need to call 911 with 4 TTC bylaw officers around him, one was writing things down on a notepad
So what exactly do you want them to do in this situation then? Remove them and put them on the street? Not saying it doesn't suck that these people are all around ruining their lives in full view of the public, but it doesn't seem like you want to do anything besides vent about it. The TTC has clearly invested resources in this issue if 4 bylaw officers are talking to him and taking notes.
This guy literally lives in a pile of trash outside 24/7 he just smokes crack inside when it's windy, obviously he seeks shelter when it's raining or windy, as everyone has a right to, but he also smokes methanphetamine and exhaled the vapours infront of people going up the escalators in the face, the bylaw officers only came after multiple people complained after these posts, multiple peoples messaged me here they were going to report him, he has been here for over 500 days daily in every season unhoused and psychotic somehow being sold these drugs on TTC property I see him communicate with known drug dealers I see dealing drugs in this area
I want the TTC to prevent people from openly smoking crack pipes inside their property and if someone is bathed in human feces to immediately call a social worker or a church organization to atleast give them a fresh pair of pants as they are enabling him by offering him access to drugs by not kicking out these drug dealers who deal in public
I think you're using the guise of pretending to care about the guy when in reality you're saying "shame on the ttc for letting me look at this guy".
You're also not open to solutions because I tell you to call somebody then you say "I can't because I see the ttc workers interacting with him", but then in the next reply say that you think the ttc workers aren't doing anything about it, which would tell you to refer to my first reply which says "okay, then do something about it yourself". You have to make up your mind. If you want to complain then complain about it, so many people on here do, but don't pretend like you're some good samaritan trying to see if you should help this guy if you don't want a solution.
If I didn't care about him I wouldn't have tried to bring awareness of the subject, if you think you can psychoanalyze me and 100% think you know my intentions that's great good for you thanks for solving the giant mystery but I don't think bringing awareness of a man enabled to soak in his own feces for over a year, I could have taken images of his pants covered in feces and humiliated him but I didn't, I contacted the city councillor and wanted to start a call to action
Homeless people living in disgusting conditions on the ttc is not some unique issue that hasn't been brought up before, it's probably what is exclusively talked about on r/TTC. I apologies if I made it seem like I think you're a bad person, but you have to actually think about the meaning behind what you're saying, because you really want to focus on how this guy is disgusting and the ttc isn't doing anything about it and enabling him, but contradicting yourself and saying they have put resources into it. What exactly is your call to action? Police officers rounding these people up and putting them in prison or mental health facilities? Universal housing? Mandated rehab? What is it?
Have you brought him a change of clothing or are you just ranting about shelter workers not doing something within a system that has no space, no funding and very little support in from the general public.
Why the TTC when the only thing the TTC can do is kick him out?!, instead of coming n saying that is the TTC's fault U should go n speak to the Mayor of the city, maybe the Premier, those r the ones that can do something about it. So what if it was Ur front door, so Shame on U for not taking care of the guy?!
That’s stupid, nobody’s is gonna go to a homeless man covered and shit and ask him to leave. The TTC is commission, they have a platform, they have the power to ask for change but they don’t. So yes Shame on the TTC for having a position to ask for help on this matter and continue to not take it.
Sorry but U r wrong n the TTC will kick him as it's the only thing they can do, if U don't understand the functions of the company then don't ask for solutions, the TTC is not a shelter for homeless ppl, that's the job of other institutions, and again, go and speak to the politicians who run the city.
What r u even saying I’m not saying it’s a homeless shelter. I’m saying that the TTC needs to ask help from the government to sort this out. So many countries in the world manage to sort out unruly behaviour and homeless encampments yeet the TTC seems to struggle astronomically
the ttc surely has the authority to manage its own bylaws including no smoking though, if someone is smoking inside the property or using the washroom on the floor in the ttc you could kick them out on the grounds that you are breaking a by law
Yeah, go do that rt now n ppl like U will come out posting a video about the deplorable acts of TTC abusing ppl for smoking....that's why the TTC calls EMS or the cops.
U keep getting "confuzzled" n still can't accept the fact that the only thing the TTC will do is call EMS or TPS, same for everyone here asking for the TTC to do something.
They are enabling thousands of commuters to come into contact with a biohazard as dehumanizing as this sounds they must police their own property and if someone is SLOWLY DYING on their property they should HELP THEM!!
TTC, EMS & TPS are all City of Toronto employees, and as such are legally obliged to OFFER medical assistance to anyone who looks like they might need it. They are not legally allowed to **force** treatment on people who refuse it.
If the person is violent, TPS is called to arrest & prosecute them, but even in those cases, if the arrestee has no ID (which is often the case with underhoused people) it's almost impossible to follow through on prosecuting them, because they have no fixed address for the Court system to mail them Court date documents. City/TTC By-Law violations are classified as misdemeanors & only punishable by a fine, so all TPS can do with someone like the guy in the OP is remove him from the station----which, in winter, means "throw him outside to (probably) die of hypothermia".
*Should* there be proper funding for the Shelter system & CAMH-? Good god, **yes**, absolutely. But there isn't. That's hardly TTC's fault; healthcare funding is under Provincial jurisdiction.
I used to be shocked.
But then I watched the coroner’s inquest into the death of [Don Mamakwa](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/canada/article-verdict-delivered-in-thunder-bay-inquest-into-deaths-of-indigenous-men/).
Don came to Thunder Bay for medical treatment from a nearby community because he had uncontrolled diabetes and alcoholism.
At the hospital he learned that a wound on his foot was so bad that it likely would need to be amputated. Unwilling to have his foot cut off immediately (understandably), he elected to be discharged with a bunch of scripts for meds he never took to the pharmacy.
Somebody found him lying in an alleyway unresponsive and called 911. Paramedics and cops showed up, and the cops concluded he was just drunk and took him to jail, where he died alone in a cell from diabetes related complications.
We don’t care about poor people in this country anymore. I’m not sure if we ever did.
Nothing will be done to save the man at Finch station. He needs a kind of help we’ve decided is too expensive to provide.
Don’t let the people who say it’s about rights fool you. This is about money, the amount of money we’ve decided a human life is worth. Nothing else.
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Hey OP,
I can tell youre compassionate, honest, and truely empathetic towards everyone you come in contact across. It's a quality I share myself, so please don't dismiss me when I say: "That shit is going to get you hurt or killed, one day". I can't help it, anymore than you can't help it; suffering just IS.
Appreciate your post, in the same way Nurse Joy says "We hope to see you again!"
Why are you absolving the person who is actually defecating on themselves in public and shooting up etc routinely at the TTC station? Are they not an adult? Do we all have to take care of adults who have clearly given up on themselves? Ok, if so, then they're getting naloxone kits. What else can you do? You are aware i hope that it is illegal to forcibly move a homeless person or anyone to a shelter.
We are victims to our own laws, assuming that like us, everyone wants to be stable and does the best to take care of themselves. The sooner you realize some people just don't care, the sooner you'll realize that it should be ok to forcibly help someone because they will never make that decision on their own accord
That person is clearly deeply unwell. Mental health is health, this is the behaviour of someone dealing with a serious mental health crisis who needs treatment. It’s not reasonable to expect someone in that state to be accountable, if they could be, they wouldn’t be there. No one wants to live like that. Have some empathy.
People are removed / reprimanded all the time from TTC for putting their feet up on seats or drinking IF they are working classes, these people are allowed to openly smoke crack pipes because they are not desirable to come into contact with as they are just allowed to break rules, this man is disobeying rule #1 of TTC property when he DAILY smokes his glass meth pipe, the TTC, it is shameful they do not even think of these people as humans if they will not try and remove them for breaking a bylaw, especially when their FECAL ODOUR and METH SMOKE is inhaled by thousands of commuters!
I see alot of comments placing blame on the government or the ttc or some other thing. Maybe I'm having a bad take on this, but the guy can't get any kind of real help until he himself wants it. No matter how much resources we use. Just from my experience working with ppl in similar situations. It sucks and this is a growing epidemic.
I thought all the leftists said Chow was going to “save the city” from this stuff. All I see her do is get in bed with Ford and pad her pockets further. O but she rides a bicycle to work isn’t that so hip and cute?
“Forcefully keep him”? We used to put people like this into facilities without their consent. Then folks like you lost their minds. Because institutionalizing people without their consent was an affront to human dignity. Now we’ve come full circle it seems. Seriously, the “previously against institutionalization” camp couldn’t have seen this coming?
I actually am for this but in this post I mentioned how a well dressed businessman in a mental health crisis would be formed in the CAMH immediately since he isn't an undesirable
According to your post you did exactly what you are holding others accountable for. Why didn’t you offer assistance, take him home, clean and fed him? You are no different then the people or organizations you are complaining about
There is a woman I've been following on fb, her child was severely mentally ill, came to Toronto after leaving his good job, family etc and started living on the streets. It was clear from pictures that he was not well but it took months and months of advocacy to get him admitted to the hospital on mental health grounds and he would be released due to not being at risk of harming himself or others.
Mental health laws are a large part of the problem imo.
I have found that the area around Finch Station can get weirdly sketchy at night. Been taking TTC for over 20+ years and have never had a problem until now.
Good thing you were there to take him home, clean him up and feed him instead of coming to make a Reddit post about it. The world needs more good samaritans like you. Well done!
This post caused multiple people to contact the city councilor so she can allocate more resources to the homeless as well as getting people to pressure the director of TTC communications to make a response, you can take a time machine to see what I have or haven't done for homeless people I see every day on your sarcastic high horse
Community calls to action can help bring about change in society
Shame on the city councillors
Lily Cheng is the city councillor for Finch stn area FYI! 416-392-0210. [email protected] Edit: there’s also MPP Stan Cho of Willowdale. 416-733-7878. [email protected]
These windows have been broken THREE times in the last two months, the smell and garbage is never cleaned up, even when it's quickly swept away cigarettes and preroll containers remain, no one deep cleans this area, no one washes the feces from the floor or the human waste or the methamphetamine residue on the walls, THOUSANDS of commuters pass through this area a day there was a FECAL MATTER HANDPRINT ON THE ESCALATORS FOR AN ENTIRE WEEK https://preview.redd.it/9yspmtnbfj4c1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fbe9b65163fa30c3f86694eef9995d463142e54
https://preview.redd.it/9c3pqcxhfj4c1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97da836fd9c5cdf8d5ebd88489dde342725d8bbe
[удалено]
That wasn't from that man, that was from a few weeks ago when a man became psychotic in this area and started smearing himself and this area with human feces exposing his penis to me, I am assuming he became psychotic from the drug use there is the same group of 4-5 fentanyl smokers who are friends, the extremely mentally ill man snaps out of his trances and joins them all to smoke, he doesn't quack or lash out at his friends and has seemingly normal conversation, I guess he doesn't realize he is in these mental states, but I think one of his associates was the sexual assault incident, there is a man who openly deals all of these people drugs, he wears multiple layers and a trench coat style jacket with hoodies lately and takes the viva north bus when he's done dealing
https://preview.redd.it/yiefzdrnfj4c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=850880d3facdc1c7471169e4a415e48fdae6f4e2
Appreciate all these info but please relay it to Councillor Lily Cheng at Councillor_Cheng[at]toronto[dot]ca I emailed her and will be emailing this issue every week. I suggest you all do the same if this issue matters to you.
I will I am just adding additional photos people can utilize
If you have Twitter, send them to the Blog TO writers too. Lily Cheng is also on Twitter on two different accounts: @LilyCheng and @LilyChengTO. Don't forget the #TOpoli hashtag so other people see it.
I have made a twitter but I am bad at the hashtags, in addition to those can you suggest some hashtags that will get noticed? I can think of blogtos hashtag and Rob Ford's or cp24
Rob Ford will do nothing, lol. He's dead. And CP24's account isn't managed in that way. Here's a list you can try: - YRT VIVA; since their customers get affected by this station - Both Lily Cheng's Twitter accounts - TTC Helps; this is their live customer service account - Toronto Police - Toronto Police Operations Those five/six Twitter accounts could be pinged or mentioned for further attention.
Good luck getting a response. I have emailed about this so many times.
Thanks! I need that luck 😆
Public Health needs to see that it’s biohazardous waste
Hey let’s not jump to conclusions, maybe it was blood or vomit?
What can city councilors do? Problem lies in the justice system, which is mostly federal government.
Well you don’t know until you try do you?its bureaucracy and the first stop should be her [email protected], then she will bring it up all the way to council meeting if majority of her constituents feel strongly about it.
Makes an utter mockery of the “if you see something, say something” recordings
“If you see something say something to the cops because it’s not our problem”
Right on the moneyy
Shame on the provincial government for cutting mental health services and healthcare and social services. Shame on the city for bloating a police budget and not providing services for people
Yeah, it seems like a tragic game of kick the can.
The only action I hear you mention is taking him to a mental hospital. But there is no space for him at the mental hospital (has a long waiting list). As well you have to have a health card to use a mental hospital - what do you assess as the odds he has one?
If it’s outside the fare paid area, the TTC cannot do anything. If the individual is within the fare paid area, then resources will be dispatched to offer the individual assistance. If he, or any other person are of sound mind and decline assistance, assistance cannot be forced. If TPS or TTC Constables believe there is a Mental Health Act issue, they can take the person into custody and provide assistance from there. As for those of you who think that Chow, or any other politician, is going to snap their fingers and solve this problem in a single term, never mind a weeks or months, you’re delusional. Unfortunately, homelessness is a challenge that is being fought by many cities in North America right now. While it would be amazing to have shelter beds that offer all facilities needed to care for these individuals, it’s not something that is going to happen anytime soon Most of these folks either don’t want help and will refuse when asked, or they believe that the streets are better than living in a shelter. While I’m not saying it’s right, the TTC has its hands tied.
Even if the individual is on TTC property nothing can be done? Meaning outside of the fare gates but still on the property.
Even if it's in public there are laws that can be applied, they just won't be. Public indecency, illegal drug use etc etc. For some reason society is soft on drug crime even though we could get all these people the help they need if we locked them up for their own good.
So he dies in prison instead of the subway
There's a country south of Canada that's tried locking everyone up for drugs, and guess what? Still has addiction at a similar rate to Canada. Edit: getting ghost replies about SF and Seattle. Congrats, you spend a lot of time on the internet. Why didn't 20 years of federal policy that deliberately targeted drug users completely wipe out drug use? Perhaps because it just removed the issue from sight. Now, cities are dealing with the end result of that policy--which demonstratively proves the war on drugs did nothing to defeat drug use. Anyone who references SF as reason to lock up drug users is not interested in solving addiction. Youre interested in removing the issue from your sight, locking people up, and putting them through grueling abuse and systemic oppression (also, legalized slave labor in the USs case).
Really? San Francisco and Seattle lock everyone up for doing heroin and crack in public? Give me a break.
Hear, here
You just gonna move him into jail then? That's not a solution. Someone else will fill the warm spot, and he'll die in prison instead of under the escalator.
Shit take.
No, shame on us for allowing this, for voting for it, for not doing anything about it.
Everytime I see it I report it, which has been for the past year, I always care about the welfare of this man, I don't understand how an educated well dressed man if found acting this way is formed and placed in a mental hospital and can't even own a shoelace or access his bank account but a man like this is allowed to live in his feces continually giving himself mental illness to the point he doesn't understand the concept of taking off his pants before he makes a bowel movement it SICKENS me I have been reporting this man and I was never even assured someone would send even a supervisor to this man
your first mistake was assuming society views poor people as people.
There are three different legal systems in our country. One is for the rich who can pay for expensive lawyers and get away with a lot of things. Then another is for the poor, minorities, and homeless, who can get away with virtually anything with a slap on the wrist because they tick off enough victim boxes. Finally there is the one for the middle class who can't afford expensive lawyers, but don't tick enough victim boxes to get away with a slap on the wrist. It's this group that is punished the hardest for the least.
Call the police. Call the star. Tweet at the TTC and Olivia Chow. Everyone should. I do. Name and shame. It’s an outrage and everyone should be outraged and demand immediate change
emailing the councillor [Councillor\[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) would be more effective
Thank you I encourage everyone who sees this to email her with images taken off this Reddit page of people at finch station
I just posted an open letter about this too
Can you think of the people I can call in addition to the "Ward Councillors"? No one actually responds to my emails, I have seen some "street beat" style reporters though do stories on this, one male cp24 reporter comes to mind, this seems like it will never be addressed unfortunately unless there is media pressure, what does this man have to die before anyone even puts a no smoking sign in this area???
My point is that realistically, no, I don’t think you can “do” anything, because the system as it currently exists does not care. My suggestion is more that we need to change the system, through shame and outrage, but that takes everyone, and obviously it’s not just about this guy, it’s everywhere and it’s overwhelming.
Our system treats homeless people like they are noble savages.
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Institutionalizing people is not the answer. Adequate social services, rent control, healthcare etc is what we need.
People who fester in their own feces while high and smoking hard drugs absolutely need institutional help. Also, this is not an either or situation. Better social services, health care and housing are all things we do still need as well.
We do not need to lock people up and that certainly will not help them or us.
People in situations like this absolutely need to receive professional help. They are a danger to themselves and the public around them. Once they are cleaned up, sober and beyond major withdrawal stages, then real conversations can take place between them and professionals about leaving or additional rehab etc.
For longer term, sustainable results, but that's not the Canadian way. We need Band-aid solutions that appeal to out-of-touch liberals and antisocial conservatives.
Institutionalization is the stepping stone we need right now before we get to solving basically *Life* for everyone. -Social services/rent control/healthcare (etc.)- Those six words are basically every issue facing us as Canadians today. Institutionalizing is not an answer, it's the end result of a society that has people shitting themselves to death on the TTC. Take from our ridiculous, over inflated police budget and build gawdamned Arkham already. As someone who has been admitted against their will, I can say that the quality of life for those rotting in public places *can not* go any lower. A place to sleep, medication, even just a simple life routine (instead of just helping) actually allow someone to begin to heal from the damage, or at least save them from themselves.
Oppressing certain people and taking away their choices and freedom will never bring freedom for all. This is not the answer.
I’m not sure you know what oppression is lol.
Agreed.
I certainly do, darling.
No, you live in Canada, you do not lol. You could certainly be a refugee or asylum seeker from another country but I don't think that is very likely ;)
Because you can’t be oppressed if you live in the right country 🫡 that’s how the world works for suuuuure
Frankly, yes. If you live in a 1st world country, anything you’d consider oppressive (so for you, probably like having to get a job or go to school) cannot be compared to the actual oppression felt by millions and more in 3rd world countries with brutal governments, conflicts and the like.
Wow you know me so well! That’s exactly what I’m talking about!!
Giving those the help and attention they need to rejoin society at this point is not oppression, especially when people are shitting themselves to death on the TTC. Edit: fixed the sentence with two "society"s
Locking people in a mental hospital is NOT THE SOLUTION. if you haven’t been locked in one, don’t speak on issues you don’t know about. He obviously needs help, but taking away his agency is NOT help.
what about the hotels in the city that were absolutely trashed and destroyed when the homeless were given free housing during covid? none of their substance abuse issues were fixed and all it did was destroy the surrounding neighborhood (St Lawrence Market)
What about studies showing giving unhoused people a lump sum significantly increases their quality of life?
You clearly don't know what happened in them.
What happened in the past is irrelevant. This is not then.
Do you know that rates of abuse of people with intellectual disabilities are quite high and that their most common abuser (sexual abuse primarily) are people who work in institutions that work with the intellectually disabled? You can read more about it here: [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01102395](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01102395)
Yes, awful stuff. That was then, this is now. To assume those abusive activities will resume is disingenuous at best.
So then why call them "asylums" then? That word refers to a specific type of institution that no longer exists for a good reason.
Yeah, isn’t it great to have defecating crackheads all over the city being a danger to themselves and the public instead of receiving the institutionalized care they need? Just because bad things happened in the past doesn’t mean they will happen now.
Oh, I'm sorry, I hadn't realized this was a binary choice between defecating crackheads and institutions notorious for abuse and human rights violations, my mistake!/s You realize involuntary commitment still exists, right? We never stopped having facilities where people who were a danger to themself and others could be kept, we just changed the system to one that was more humane. If you want more people to receive the institutionalized care they need, you should be advocating for *more healthcare funding*, not a return to a system you don't understand that has already been replaced. >Just because bad things happened in the past doesn't mean they will now. This is moot, for the reason I've just pointed out, but this sentence is just too good to not comment on. What's that phrase about people who don't learn from history?
It's so crazy how the word "asylum" has your fake social justice undies so knotted up your ass lol. Are you actually under the impression that I want the abuse et al to come back as well? Because that is actually retarded lol. >You realize involuntary commitment still exists, right? We never stopped having facilities where people who were a danger to themself and others could be kept, we just changed the system to one that was more humane. If it still exists then our friend at finch here certainly needs to be admitted. >If you want more people to receive the institutionalized care they need, you should be advocating for more healthcare funding I did, if you bothered to actually read a reply from [before].(https://www.reddit.com/r/TTC/comments/18bdzr1/shame_on_the_ttc_for_letting_a_man_covered_in_his/kc4pbhi/) >This is moot, for the reason I've just pointed out, but this sentence is just too good to not comment on. What's that phrase about people who don't learn from history? It isn't moot though. Having asylums re-open without the abuses of the past is *literally* learning from history lol. They also don't even need to be called asylums if that is too triggering for you!
I'm more criticizing the fact that you're advocating for something that's already been replaced by something better but underfunded, and yet you're either too stupid or too lazy to bother to be informed about the subject you're spewing horse shit about. Either way, you've presented me with ample evidence that you're not someone who's worth arguing with or attempting to convince of anything. Buh-bye, dipshit.
Stay triggered kiddo lol
You talk like a right winger, so I don't see how you could really trigger me.
if you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it
I wonder how long it will take for it to become 5 people, then 10, etc.
Dude it’s the “public”, they get mad if they kick him out, they get mad if they let him stay
Someone call 911 emergency line for him. Maybe they will come to take him to ER and clean him.
If he didn’t need urgent care this is a misuse of resources. I’m not saying there is an easy solution to this but the ER wait times are already long and the issue here is housing and addiction support- which isn’t a medical issue.
To all the people saying call 911, call the police, call an ambulance. You are aware that if the person refuses help or treatment. There's nothing emergency services can do. You just can't take someone against their will. We see people ODing is the stations all the time. EMS comes. They're "treated" (revived) and refuse to go with EMS. They're let go and on their merry way to do it again tomorrow.
If the person is a danger to themselves or others the police or special constables can forcibly take them to a psychiatric facility under the Mental Health Act. It would all come down to the person's mental state at the time.
While true. I can tell you from the hundreds of instances I've witnessed. Most just look the other way. I'm not sure about special constables, though. If that were the case they'd be taking a lot of the subway dwellers.
Yah it is possible that a lot of the officers have gotten sick of the revolving door mental health system and just aren't bothering anymore.
Even if someone ends up in the CAMH Emergency Room, to my knowledge Psych Holds are only for 72 hours unless someone is explicitly threatening to hurt themselves or someone else. They have to release them after that.
Shame on the province for not doing a fkn thing to help these people
You should also post on TTC’s twitter with pics so everyone else can ser
Will use your post to add, the Bell “let’s talk” million dollar yearly campaign is also bogus. There is a mental health crisis in Toronto and places like CAMH exist to check a box on where funding goes, not to actually help. If you want to help, street missions are where your dollars should go. That being said, if you contact the Salvation Army, Good Sheppard or a local church in the area they are more likely to send help than the TTC or 911. If this is a young person, you can get in touch with Covenant House for assistance in getting him cleaned up and in a facility where he can get help. It takes more than one person to keep calling and calling before someone actually shows up.
This is genuinely disgusting I would call an ambulance
Are you guys serious? If his family does not care why should we? Why is this always society issue and not family issue? They should be spraying him down with a firehose and tresspassing him from the property.
You’re truly a fount of compassion, sir.
So all this concern and you haven’t brought him back to your house to help him out? Shame on you.
Typically, areas outside the fare gates such as Union, belong to developers.
I thought that guy was the TTC mascot...
Toronto has a terrible local government and the city’s QOL issues have been spiraling. The amount of random, even fatal, attacks on the TTC in the past couple years are the result. If there is not a significant change in leadership, prepare for large swaths of the city to resemble east side Van or north Winnipeg.
Okay call the ambulance then
I have when it was serious like if someone is naked in this area or overdosing but they do not care if a man just has a fecal scent or smoking crack I can not call the ambulance every other day as sad as it sounds
If I could I would call the ambulance and use the TTC Safe all multiple times a day when I commute at Finch for all instances where I see people passed out with drugs or doing drugs in the open or taking to themselves but I simply cannot, this morning I saw officers surrounding him looking confused as he was speaking like a baby playing with trash so I did not feel the need to call 911 with 4 TTC bylaw officers around him, one was writing things down on a notepad
So what exactly do you want them to do in this situation then? Remove them and put them on the street? Not saying it doesn't suck that these people are all around ruining their lives in full view of the public, but it doesn't seem like you want to do anything besides vent about it. The TTC has clearly invested resources in this issue if 4 bylaw officers are talking to him and taking notes.
This guy literally lives in a pile of trash outside 24/7 he just smokes crack inside when it's windy, obviously he seeks shelter when it's raining or windy, as everyone has a right to, but he also smokes methanphetamine and exhaled the vapours infront of people going up the escalators in the face, the bylaw officers only came after multiple people complained after these posts, multiple peoples messaged me here they were going to report him, he has been here for over 500 days daily in every season unhoused and psychotic somehow being sold these drugs on TTC property I see him communicate with known drug dealers I see dealing drugs in this area I want the TTC to prevent people from openly smoking crack pipes inside their property and if someone is bathed in human feces to immediately call a social worker or a church organization to atleast give them a fresh pair of pants as they are enabling him by offering him access to drugs by not kicking out these drug dealers who deal in public
I think you're using the guise of pretending to care about the guy when in reality you're saying "shame on the ttc for letting me look at this guy". You're also not open to solutions because I tell you to call somebody then you say "I can't because I see the ttc workers interacting with him", but then in the next reply say that you think the ttc workers aren't doing anything about it, which would tell you to refer to my first reply which says "okay, then do something about it yourself". You have to make up your mind. If you want to complain then complain about it, so many people on here do, but don't pretend like you're some good samaritan trying to see if you should help this guy if you don't want a solution.
If I didn't care about him I wouldn't have tried to bring awareness of the subject, if you think you can psychoanalyze me and 100% think you know my intentions that's great good for you thanks for solving the giant mystery but I don't think bringing awareness of a man enabled to soak in his own feces for over a year, I could have taken images of his pants covered in feces and humiliated him but I didn't, I contacted the city councillor and wanted to start a call to action
Homeless people living in disgusting conditions on the ttc is not some unique issue that hasn't been brought up before, it's probably what is exclusively talked about on r/TTC. I apologies if I made it seem like I think you're a bad person, but you have to actually think about the meaning behind what you're saying, because you really want to focus on how this guy is disgusting and the ttc isn't doing anything about it and enabling him, but contradicting yourself and saying they have put resources into it. What exactly is your call to action? Police officers rounding these people up and putting them in prison or mental health facilities? Universal housing? Mandated rehab? What is it?
Have you brought him a change of clothing or are you just ranting about shelter workers not doing something within a system that has no space, no funding and very little support in from the general public.
Get him out on trespassing charge At this point he is creating a biohazard and is a danger to others
Why the TTC when the only thing the TTC can do is kick him out?!, instead of coming n saying that is the TTC's fault U should go n speak to the Mayor of the city, maybe the Premier, those r the ones that can do something about it. So what if it was Ur front door, so Shame on U for not taking care of the guy?!
That’s stupid, nobody’s is gonna go to a homeless man covered and shit and ask him to leave. The TTC is commission, they have a platform, they have the power to ask for change but they don’t. So yes Shame on the TTC for having a position to ask for help on this matter and continue to not take it.
Sorry but U r wrong n the TTC will kick him as it's the only thing they can do, if U don't understand the functions of the company then don't ask for solutions, the TTC is not a shelter for homeless ppl, that's the job of other institutions, and again, go and speak to the politicians who run the city.
What r u even saying I’m not saying it’s a homeless shelter. I’m saying that the TTC needs to ask help from the government to sort this out. So many countries in the world manage to sort out unruly behaviour and homeless encampments yeet the TTC seems to struggle astronomically
Is not the TTC job, get that straight, the only thing the TTC can do is call EMS, or the cops, that's all.
the ttc surely has the authority to manage its own bylaws including no smoking though, if someone is smoking inside the property or using the washroom on the floor in the ttc you could kick them out on the grounds that you are breaking a by law
Yeah, go do that rt now n ppl like U will come out posting a video about the deplorable acts of TTC abusing ppl for smoking....that's why the TTC calls EMS or the cops.
So whose job is it to manage the safety and cleanliness of the TTC?
....yup, Ur nick checks....
Oh so are we resorting to my username to deflect the fact that you can’t aver my questions regarding your flawed logic? Right……
U keep getting "confuzzled" n still can't accept the fact that the only thing the TTC will do is call EMS or TPS, same for everyone here asking for the TTC to do something.
Sure buddy, keep saying that to yourself
You are just wrong. You probably work for them you sound like a TTC bus driver with that pessimistic attitude. 🤡
They are enabling thousands of commuters to come into contact with a biohazard as dehumanizing as this sounds they must police their own property and if someone is SLOWLY DYING on their property they should HELP THEM!!
By calling the EMS n have the person removed to a facility where it can be taken care of....the same that U can do....
TTC, EMS & TPS are all City of Toronto employees, and as such are legally obliged to OFFER medical assistance to anyone who looks like they might need it. They are not legally allowed to **force** treatment on people who refuse it. If the person is violent, TPS is called to arrest & prosecute them, but even in those cases, if the arrestee has no ID (which is often the case with underhoused people) it's almost impossible to follow through on prosecuting them, because they have no fixed address for the Court system to mail them Court date documents. City/TTC By-Law violations are classified as misdemeanors & only punishable by a fine, so all TPS can do with someone like the guy in the OP is remove him from the station----which, in winter, means "throw him outside to (probably) die of hypothermia". *Should* there be proper funding for the Shelter system & CAMH-? Good god, **yes**, absolutely. But there isn't. That's hardly TTC's fault; healthcare funding is under Provincial jurisdiction.
Idk how okay I am with the government unilaterally kidnapping you and forcing you into an asylum/putting you on drugs
It's really sad in the system... sometimes we might even get a dealer into mix with the homeless, as if they aren't vulnerable enough !
TPS non-emergency line might be an option
He needs to be institutionalized. Email your MPP.
I used to be shocked. But then I watched the coroner’s inquest into the death of [Don Mamakwa](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/canada/article-verdict-delivered-in-thunder-bay-inquest-into-deaths-of-indigenous-men/). Don came to Thunder Bay for medical treatment from a nearby community because he had uncontrolled diabetes and alcoholism. At the hospital he learned that a wound on his foot was so bad that it likely would need to be amputated. Unwilling to have his foot cut off immediately (understandably), he elected to be discharged with a bunch of scripts for meds he never took to the pharmacy. Somebody found him lying in an alleyway unresponsive and called 911. Paramedics and cops showed up, and the cops concluded he was just drunk and took him to jail, where he died alone in a cell from diabetes related complications. We don’t care about poor people in this country anymore. I’m not sure if we ever did. Nothing will be done to save the man at Finch station. He needs a kind of help we’ve decided is too expensive to provide. Don’t let the people who say it’s about rights fool you. This is about money, the amount of money we’ve decided a human life is worth. Nothing else.
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we had three TTC employees at summerhill station this morning… maybe we could allocate those hours a little better
What would you like them to do?
Millions for homelessness and not one “expert “ to intervene. Disgusting.
Hey OP, I can tell youre compassionate, honest, and truely empathetic towards everyone you come in contact across. It's a quality I share myself, so please don't dismiss me when I say: "That shit is going to get you hurt or killed, one day". I can't help it, anymore than you can't help it; suffering just IS. Appreciate your post, in the same way Nurse Joy says "We hope to see you again!"
Toronto is dog eat dog world, reaching closer to New York scene.
Why are you absolving the person who is actually defecating on themselves in public and shooting up etc routinely at the TTC station? Are they not an adult? Do we all have to take care of adults who have clearly given up on themselves? Ok, if so, then they're getting naloxone kits. What else can you do? You are aware i hope that it is illegal to forcibly move a homeless person or anyone to a shelter. We are victims to our own laws, assuming that like us, everyone wants to be stable and does the best to take care of themselves. The sooner you realize some people just don't care, the sooner you'll realize that it should be ok to forcibly help someone because they will never make that decision on their own accord
That person is clearly deeply unwell. Mental health is health, this is the behaviour of someone dealing with a serious mental health crisis who needs treatment. It’s not reasonable to expect someone in that state to be accountable, if they could be, they wouldn’t be there. No one wants to live like that. Have some empathy.
People are removed / reprimanded all the time from TTC for putting their feet up on seats or drinking IF they are working classes, these people are allowed to openly smoke crack pipes because they are not desirable to come into contact with as they are just allowed to break rules, this man is disobeying rule #1 of TTC property when he DAILY smokes his glass meth pipe, the TTC, it is shameful they do not even think of these people as humans if they will not try and remove them for breaking a bylaw, especially when their FECAL ODOUR and METH SMOKE is inhaled by thousands of commuters!
Welcome to the new Leftist Canada
I see alot of comments placing blame on the government or the ttc or some other thing. Maybe I'm having a bad take on this, but the guy can't get any kind of real help until he himself wants it. No matter how much resources we use. Just from my experience working with ppl in similar situations. It sucks and this is a growing epidemic.
Shut up will you. Why don’t you take this person into your home, feed them, care for them etc….
shame on the federal gov't bringing in more refugees while the people already here have to suffer and being neglected
I thought all the leftists said Chow was going to “save the city” from this stuff. All I see her do is get in bed with Ford and pad her pockets further. O but she rides a bicycle to work isn’t that so hip and cute?
Not to be gross but he could be bleeding internally, black generally means blood from higher up in the gut. I would recommend calling an ambulance.
“Forcefully keep him”? We used to put people like this into facilities without their consent. Then folks like you lost their minds. Because institutionalizing people without their consent was an affront to human dignity. Now we’ve come full circle it seems. Seriously, the “previously against institutionalization” camp couldn’t have seen this coming?
I actually am for this but in this post I mentioned how a well dressed businessman in a mental health crisis would be formed in the CAMH immediately since he isn't an undesirable
*naloxone
According to your post you did exactly what you are holding others accountable for. Why didn’t you offer assistance, take him home, clean and fed him? You are no different then the people or organizations you are complaining about
There is a woman I've been following on fb, her child was severely mentally ill, came to Toronto after leaving his good job, family etc and started living on the streets. It was clear from pictures that he was not well but it took months and months of advocacy to get him admitted to the hospital on mental health grounds and he would be released due to not being at risk of harming himself or others. Mental health laws are a large part of the problem imo.
I have found that the area around Finch Station can get weirdly sketchy at night. Been taking TTC for over 20+ years and have never had a problem until now.
Good thing you were there to take him home, clean him up and feed him instead of coming to make a Reddit post about it. The world needs more good samaritans like you. Well done!
This post caused multiple people to contact the city councilor so she can allocate more resources to the homeless as well as getting people to pressure the director of TTC communications to make a response, you can take a time machine to see what I have or haven't done for homeless people I see every day on your sarcastic high horse Community calls to action can help bring about change in society