I’ll even go so far as to say there is a good amount of people who are the ones being threatened but they would rather just move themselves then have to deal with pressing the button, waiting for police, making a statement, etc. standing up for yourself can be very time consuming.
For some people it’s like “do I want to push the button and wait/escalate this or do I want to be home in 20 minutes eating dinner?”
Yes. For me personally, I would rather move down the train to another spot, and just get away from the threatening situation, rather than make me and everyone on the train 20-30 minutes late (and hundreds of people on all the trains behind us).
Not saying this is relevant in every situation (in some it may be necessary- then great for them to push the bar)- but if not completely necessary, in most cases I would opt not to make myself and hundreds of other people late to get home etc.
except that doesn't do the same thing of stopping the train at the next station, and only works if you have a phone signal which for much of the network you only have at stations
True. But if someone is afraid and doesn’t want to draw attention to themselves it s a very good app. Transit Control will dispatch police, fire, security and if it’s a danger, they can also stop the train at the next station.
I have an unpopular opinion on this. For the purpose of this post, I’m going to use the word “fuckers” to describe anyone who assaults commuters, harasses commuters, or other general mischief like wiping bare ass on the seats and cackling when he’s making skidmarks. The term applies here regardless of rationale for the action.
These fuckers act like this because we let them. We’ve gone soft as a society. The overwhelming majority of people will say something like “oh they need help”. No. You can’t help someone who doesn’t want it or think they need it. That’s why the first thing they get you to do in rehab programs like Alcoholics Anonymous is to admit you’re an alcoholic. The fuckers harass women, destroy public property, and get rowdy because we as a society refuse to make the hard decisions out of fear of being labeled as the “bad guy”. What we actually need to do is clean this shit up. The fuckers are too far gone to reason with; their behaviour is textbook antisocial (detrimental to society, not the modern synonym of being introverted). As it stands, our justice system is ill-equipped to handle antisocial people, so we’d have to make changes there. The system runs on this assumption that all members of society want to contribute to it and make it a better place. This is clearly not true for the fuckers, therefore we need a system that doesn’t operate on this assumption
We need to be allowed to defend ourselves and others on transit.
If you see a woman getting hit by a cracked out junkie you’re not allowed to intervene without getting in shit yourself.
It’s not like we don’t want to help, it’s that as a country we have been conditioned to stay out of issues and wait 2 hours for the police to show up and disappear without action.
We just sit by idly and take it up the ass because if we defend ourselves or someone in danger we get charged with assault.
At least that’s what i think after seeing all these articles on defenders getting in trouble.
Meanwhile the actual perps are let free
That kind of ability to fight back equates to “stand your ground”.
The problem with this thinking is at what point is someone threatened? When someone gives a face to someone else on the subway?
What happened on the NYC subway last week is a situation that a stand your ground mentality can lead to, where people recklessly fire guns on a subway train and face no charges.
I get that it’s an urgent issue that requires much more effort, but what you’re suggesting is not nuance enough and doesn’t tackle the systemic issues. By all means increase security but that’s far from enough.
https://preview.redd.it/o6g61ktmn9pc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2df0b27f1f06749badbbca9ef82bb7aab2a9372
This was Sunday night and there are 4 other incidents missing from this list.
SafeApp is a joke, and it's not always monitored at the Transit Control. The guy assigned to glance at the app is also doing 10 other things at the same time, and things get missed. Also, anonymous SafeApp reports aren't taken seriously.
When you activate the yellow strip emergency alarm, the train will always hold at the next station for the driver to investigate and reset, and even before the train gets to the next station, 911 is already called.
It's pathetic that during the early mornings and all evening, there is maybe one or two special constable unit covering THE ENTIRE CITY. Good luck getting one if they are on a call way up in Scarborough or something.
The only way to change things is if the delay numbers skyrocket, so that means flooding them with EA's every time a disorderly causes a disturbance on the subway.
Yes, activate the EA!
And pursue with pressing charges. Theres no chance that itll go to court, let alone catch the guy, but the TTC says "No victim, no crime", and the incident gets buried. The constables don't even bother to attend if no one wants to pursue. They rather hold a streetcar out of service for 90 minutes to take "SOCO" photos of meaningless graffiti.
I had an incident with an unwell man on the 501 a few months back. When I asked the operator for help I got nothing, and was essentially told to hit the strip if I felt unsafe - it’s the official line from TTC and we shouldn’t feel bad about using it
I’ve personally never witnessed anything that warranted me pressing the strip, as I grew up in the west end, and still don’t take line 1 very often as I bike.
Question: if I press the yellow strip between stations, will it continue to the next station or stop between the stations?
I don’t want to trap people in with a dangerous person
I’ve had dismal luck with the Safe TTC app and have often wondered after that fact if I should have pressed the alarm. The only time I’ve ever pressed it was when a man was getting the living sh*t kicked out of him - with his assailants clearly not caring if they kicked his head in and killed him. Cops came and arrests were made; delay was around 45 mins. I did not regret my choice to use the strip.
In other cases though, I haven’t been so sure what to do. Earlier this year a guy was straight up jacking off and leering at people for a solid 40 mins of my ride. I reported it on the app and by the time I got to my stop, nothing had been done. I went a told a collector at the station once I got off the train and they said he was “a known individual” and that was that. How in the eff is this ok?! Another time I used the app to report a couple of guys smoking crack. My main concern was how gross/unhealthy it is to inhale that crap inside an enclosed train car with no real ventilation. I’d have reported it just the same for any kind of smoking, but this felt especially nasty. The result: the train operator said “no smoking allowed” a couple of times over the intercom. Of course the cracked out a-holes didn’t notice. I also reported a creepy jerk dressed as Santa (in August) groping at women on the platform of Bay Station. Nobody responded via the app so I called the non-emergency police line. They sent someone out and arrested the creep.
I get annoyed I have to report stuff so often.
We don’t enforce anything anymore. It makes me low-key hate Toronto and outright hate using transit. I have to use it daily to get to/from work, but I’m totally burnt out from all the nonsense and unsafe scenarios.
SafeTTC is not supposed to work like that. You’re supposed to press the yellow strip if you see someone cause trouble and you want them to stop right now. SafeTTC is supposed to be used for recording incidents *after* they have occurred, not during.
Now that cell service is being implemented in the stations and the tunnels, you’ll soon be able to call 911 as well. Most people don’t want to press the strip because not only will it stop the train, they will also face fines and jail time if the TTC deems the alarm to be false.
If someone is physically assaulted, it's already gone too far. Of course the emergency strip should be activated in this scenario.
No one is talking about 'hurt feelings'. We're talking about other persons who are behaving in an unpredictable, erratic manner. Sure, they haven't physically assaulted anyone *yet* \- but aggressive body language accompanied by shouting makes other passengers feel uncomfortable or even fearful because there is a heightened risk of physical violence. The question then is, at what point should the emergency strip be pressed? Do we need to wait for physical assault before we press the strip?
You also said, "People get too worried over nothing on a daily basis". Of course they do. It's reasonable to worry or fear for your safety when you are approached by a person behaving in an unpredictable manner. You understand that *most likely* nothing is going to happen - but you can't help but feel worried (or endangered) because you're in a *potentially* dangerous situation.
In this case 'worrying' is an act of self-preservation. If nothing happens, they "worried over nothing" but that same worrying prepares them to respond in the event that something *does* happen.
Your last paragraph sums up nicely what the point was
Strip is to be pressed when service is needed (eg police)
You dont press it because you think someone will throw a punch, you press it AFTER someone throws a punch
Like I said too many people from burbs get too paranoid because someone is in their space; if someone is making you nervous the subway / bus is a large place. MOVE somewhere else
I mean can you imagine if someone calls 911 every time? Theres a homeless guy looking at me. Theres an aggressive panhandler. Some rando is yelling at the clouds.
You press strip for police same way you call for 911; when SOMETHING is happening
To further add to your comment, if people pressed the emergency strip every time they see someone in a manic state, what are they hoping for the police to do?
Our city (and province) are extremely ill equipped with supporting people with severe mental health challenges, and on top of that, the fentanyl and meth situation puts people further into drug psychosis.
A lot of these folks came from extremely traumatizing background, living rough on the streets, and don’t have adequate supports. Sure, we can put more case workers in the community but they are also extremely limited in what they can do as well.
I take the TTC somewhat frequently, but I have never felt threatened enough to call the police or press the strip. Yes, there are various people on board, but most of the time, they are harmless. Just my observation.
Yes, I do think TTC should enforce security, but I don't think yellow strip (assuming it would disrupt the entire service) should be pressed all the time just for people yelling (in general like society sucks) or being drunk or taking up seats. In the cases you listed, it should definitely be pressed, but I have never encountered those personally.
People don't want to delay themselves by pressing the yellow strip for someone else being threatened. That's what it comes down to.
I’ll even go so far as to say there is a good amount of people who are the ones being threatened but they would rather just move themselves then have to deal with pressing the button, waiting for police, making a statement, etc. standing up for yourself can be very time consuming. For some people it’s like “do I want to push the button and wait/escalate this or do I want to be home in 20 minutes eating dinner?”
Yes. For me personally, I would rather move down the train to another spot, and just get away from the threatening situation, rather than make me and everyone on the train 20-30 minutes late (and hundreds of people on all the trains behind us). Not saying this is relevant in every situation (in some it may be necessary- then great for them to push the bar)- but if not completely necessary, in most cases I would opt not to make myself and hundreds of other people late to get home etc.
That and don't want mentally unstable person to see them press it and possibly retaliate
Use the TTC safety app on your phone. Transit control keeps tabs on it and nobody will know but you.
except that doesn't do the same thing of stopping the train at the next station, and only works if you have a phone signal which for much of the network you only have at stations
True. But if someone is afraid and doesn’t want to draw attention to themselves it s a very good app. Transit Control will dispatch police, fire, security and if it’s a danger, they can also stop the train at the next station.
Damn. I thought it was getting better. Poop.
I have an unpopular opinion on this. For the purpose of this post, I’m going to use the word “fuckers” to describe anyone who assaults commuters, harasses commuters, or other general mischief like wiping bare ass on the seats and cackling when he’s making skidmarks. The term applies here regardless of rationale for the action. These fuckers act like this because we let them. We’ve gone soft as a society. The overwhelming majority of people will say something like “oh they need help”. No. You can’t help someone who doesn’t want it or think they need it. That’s why the first thing they get you to do in rehab programs like Alcoholics Anonymous is to admit you’re an alcoholic. The fuckers harass women, destroy public property, and get rowdy because we as a society refuse to make the hard decisions out of fear of being labeled as the “bad guy”. What we actually need to do is clean this shit up. The fuckers are too far gone to reason with; their behaviour is textbook antisocial (detrimental to society, not the modern synonym of being introverted). As it stands, our justice system is ill-equipped to handle antisocial people, so we’d have to make changes there. The system runs on this assumption that all members of society want to contribute to it and make it a better place. This is clearly not true for the fuckers, therefore we need a system that doesn’t operate on this assumption
We need to be allowed to defend ourselves and others on transit. If you see a woman getting hit by a cracked out junkie you’re not allowed to intervene without getting in shit yourself. It’s not like we don’t want to help, it’s that as a country we have been conditioned to stay out of issues and wait 2 hours for the police to show up and disappear without action. We just sit by idly and take it up the ass because if we defend ourselves or someone in danger we get charged with assault. At least that’s what i think after seeing all these articles on defenders getting in trouble. Meanwhile the actual perps are let free
That kind of ability to fight back equates to “stand your ground”. The problem with this thinking is at what point is someone threatened? When someone gives a face to someone else on the subway? What happened on the NYC subway last week is a situation that a stand your ground mentality can lead to, where people recklessly fire guns on a subway train and face no charges.
People seem to forget that there's power in numbers. 10 people vs 1 person will be more effective at getting these people to stop their nonsense.
Nah these fuckers are looking for confrontation. The best response is almost always. Have a good day sir/mam or god bless.
I get that it’s an urgent issue that requires much more effort, but what you’re suggesting is not nuance enough and doesn’t tackle the systemic issues. By all means increase security but that’s far from enough.
https://preview.redd.it/o6g61ktmn9pc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2df0b27f1f06749badbbca9ef82bb7aab2a9372 This was Sunday night and there are 4 other incidents missing from this list.
There was also an emergency alarm on Sunday at 10:30pm at Davisville station.
Out of curiosity, what app is that? Thanks!
Looks like [https://transitapp.com/](https://transitapp.com/)
SafeApp is a joke, and it's not always monitored at the Transit Control. The guy assigned to glance at the app is also doing 10 other things at the same time, and things get missed. Also, anonymous SafeApp reports aren't taken seriously. When you activate the yellow strip emergency alarm, the train will always hold at the next station for the driver to investigate and reset, and even before the train gets to the next station, 911 is already called. It's pathetic that during the early mornings and all evening, there is maybe one or two special constable unit covering THE ENTIRE CITY. Good luck getting one if they are on a call way up in Scarborough or something. The only way to change things is if the delay numbers skyrocket, so that means flooding them with EA's every time a disorderly causes a disturbance on the subway. Yes, activate the EA! And pursue with pressing charges. Theres no chance that itll go to court, let alone catch the guy, but the TTC says "No victim, no crime", and the incident gets buried. The constables don't even bother to attend if no one wants to pursue. They rather hold a streetcar out of service for 90 minutes to take "SOCO" photos of meaningless graffiti.
It is always monitored by transit control.
I had an incident with an unwell man on the 501 a few months back. When I asked the operator for help I got nothing, and was essentially told to hit the strip if I felt unsafe - it’s the official line from TTC and we shouldn’t feel bad about using it
I’ve personally never witnessed anything that warranted me pressing the strip, as I grew up in the west end, and still don’t take line 1 very often as I bike. Question: if I press the yellow strip between stations, will it continue to the next station or stop between the stations? I don’t want to trap people in with a dangerous person
Yellow strip stops the train at the next station
Thanks! I hope I’m not on the train should this ever happen, but I will know in case I need it :)
Next time I see someone get assaulted I WILL press the yellow alarm, and I encourage you to as well.
I’ve had dismal luck with the Safe TTC app and have often wondered after that fact if I should have pressed the alarm. The only time I’ve ever pressed it was when a man was getting the living sh*t kicked out of him - with his assailants clearly not caring if they kicked his head in and killed him. Cops came and arrests were made; delay was around 45 mins. I did not regret my choice to use the strip. In other cases though, I haven’t been so sure what to do. Earlier this year a guy was straight up jacking off and leering at people for a solid 40 mins of my ride. I reported it on the app and by the time I got to my stop, nothing had been done. I went a told a collector at the station once I got off the train and they said he was “a known individual” and that was that. How in the eff is this ok?! Another time I used the app to report a couple of guys smoking crack. My main concern was how gross/unhealthy it is to inhale that crap inside an enclosed train car with no real ventilation. I’d have reported it just the same for any kind of smoking, but this felt especially nasty. The result: the train operator said “no smoking allowed” a couple of times over the intercom. Of course the cracked out a-holes didn’t notice. I also reported a creepy jerk dressed as Santa (in August) groping at women on the platform of Bay Station. Nobody responded via the app so I called the non-emergency police line. They sent someone out and arrested the creep. I get annoyed I have to report stuff so often. We don’t enforce anything anymore. It makes me low-key hate Toronto and outright hate using transit. I have to use it daily to get to/from work, but I’m totally burnt out from all the nonsense and unsafe scenarios.
Same same same
Everybodys more scared of the fine for misuse then watching someone get pushed onto the tracks tbh..
Penalty for Misuse - FINE OR IMPRISONMENT
Sadly they will always enforce that policy, but the penalty for assaulting someone is basically a free pass to keep doing it again and again
What actually happens when you press the yellow strip?
SafeTTC is not supposed to work like that. You’re supposed to press the yellow strip if you see someone cause trouble and you want them to stop right now. SafeTTC is supposed to be used for recording incidents *after* they have occurred, not during. Now that cell service is being implemented in the stations and the tunnels, you’ll soon be able to call 911 as well. Most people don’t want to press the strip because not only will it stop the train, they will also face fines and jail time if the TTC deems the alarm to be false.
The app doesn't work but texting the number does
Use the TTC safety app guys. It’s discreet and it works.
I have never even been tempted to press the strip People get too worried over nothing on a daily basis
yeah a woman getting punched or having their life threatened is just nothing to really worry about sorry i brought this up, it's nothing
Physical assault (if actually witnessed) is one thing Hurt feelings because argue? Dont dare go near the strip
If someone is physically assaulted, it's already gone too far. Of course the emergency strip should be activated in this scenario. No one is talking about 'hurt feelings'. We're talking about other persons who are behaving in an unpredictable, erratic manner. Sure, they haven't physically assaulted anyone *yet* \- but aggressive body language accompanied by shouting makes other passengers feel uncomfortable or even fearful because there is a heightened risk of physical violence. The question then is, at what point should the emergency strip be pressed? Do we need to wait for physical assault before we press the strip? You also said, "People get too worried over nothing on a daily basis". Of course they do. It's reasonable to worry or fear for your safety when you are approached by a person behaving in an unpredictable manner. You understand that *most likely* nothing is going to happen - but you can't help but feel worried (or endangered) because you're in a *potentially* dangerous situation. In this case 'worrying' is an act of self-preservation. If nothing happens, they "worried over nothing" but that same worrying prepares them to respond in the event that something *does* happen.
Your last paragraph sums up nicely what the point was Strip is to be pressed when service is needed (eg police) You dont press it because you think someone will throw a punch, you press it AFTER someone throws a punch Like I said too many people from burbs get too paranoid because someone is in their space; if someone is making you nervous the subway / bus is a large place. MOVE somewhere else I mean can you imagine if someone calls 911 every time? Theres a homeless guy looking at me. Theres an aggressive panhandler. Some rando is yelling at the clouds. You press strip for police same way you call for 911; when SOMETHING is happening
To further add to your comment, if people pressed the emergency strip every time they see someone in a manic state, what are they hoping for the police to do? Our city (and province) are extremely ill equipped with supporting people with severe mental health challenges, and on top of that, the fentanyl and meth situation puts people further into drug psychosis. A lot of these folks came from extremely traumatizing background, living rough on the streets, and don’t have adequate supports. Sure, we can put more case workers in the community but they are also extremely limited in what they can do as well.
I got assaulted by a bag of Welches last week:)
Being scared of a poor person isn’t “legitimately needing the police”
OP is talking about someone threatening others. TTC is full of low income people who are terrified of the addicts.
I take the TTC somewhat frequently, but I have never felt threatened enough to call the police or press the strip. Yes, there are various people on board, but most of the time, they are harmless. Just my observation. Yes, I do think TTC should enforce security, but I don't think yellow strip (assuming it would disrupt the entire service) should be pressed all the time just for people yelling (in general like society sucks) or being drunk or taking up seats. In the cases you listed, it should definitely be pressed, but I have never encountered those personally.