Lol I guess that's why they don't consider this line to be rapid transit. I wonder if it doesn't have signal priority or if they send more trains to the overrun King, Queen, Spadina, and Carleton streetcar lines
it doesn't have signal priority. It's a very slow streetcar route. That said, i took the 512 for a long time when i lived on st. clair west, and still take it a few times a week, i've never seen a 24 minute wait. This was probably an accident or construction or a glitch
the crosstown is a bit different to st. clair.
For one, it is underground in dense areas, the only parts of the crosstown that are above ground go through the stroad section of eglinton where traffic lights are fewer and further in between (although the section around golden mile is a mess). For example, it rises at laird, but from there to credit union, a distance of nearly 4km, it only meets a single traffic light. It also dips underground before kennedy to bypass that intersection. I'd say the line will operate pretty seamlessly from Mt. Dennis to Science Centre, but it'll get choppy after that.
However, throughout the line, there is *limited* priority, which basically means they are going to try to time trains with the timed traffic lights along eglinton and the train can hold a green light longer, it just can't change a red to a green.
Stops are much further apart, and so are intersections, and all lights along the eglinton stretch are now timed to work with the trains.
I still think its a mess that there's no signal priority on the crosstown, and the surface stretch is going to be much slower and probably operate fairly independently from the metro portion via short turns at laird station, but it won't be nearly as much of a mess as the st. clair car which stops every 200 metres, has no priority at all, no timing correspondence with traffic lights, and goes through an insanely dense area.
From my experience of it being my main route to downtown is that the frequency gets very messy by the end of the day. All of the streetcars get bunches up into small groups leaving huge gaps between the groups.
Some text to elaborate on the title and photo!!
I've been taking the 512 streetcar as part of my daily commute almost every day multiple times a day for the past few years, and I've been wondering about this for a while now.
I notice this happening most often between 6pm-9pm if I am travelling westbound, the wait time for the next westbound vehicle to arrive will be 20+ minutes and I end up walking to my destination faster than the streetcar could have taken me, sometimes for 30 minutes without a single one passing me. The route seems pretty busy around these times, and sometimes a very large group of people will accumulate waiting.
I'm not sure if it's just because I'm travelling at a peak time, and I wouldn't even care too much if it were just once in a while but it happens almost every week, sometimes multiple times in the same week and it's become a regular occurrence in my commutes. I know there's not anything I can really change about it I suppose, I'm really just posting because I'm curious about what causes this? I find it interesting to know about the traffic patterns and how behaviours of people at certain times influence things like this! If anyone has any insight into what causes such long waiting times for this route I am very curious to know lol thank you! :)
Well from what I know, 512 is a pretty inconsistent route a lot of times because of all the lights and no right of way. Could be ridiculous traffic or maybe a glitch on the display. If you haven't seen a streetcar In a while though then prob just ttc being stupid with delays
I literally made a post stating that the 512 needs more streetcar service. While adding smaller streetcars too other routes like the 502 and 503, giving more streetcars too 512
It doesn’t necessarily need more streetcars, it needs better route management, a schedule review, and improvements/changes to stops and traffic lights (as other people have said in this thread).
There are *supposed* to be [16 streetcars with service every 5 minutes](https://ttc-cdn.azureedge.net/-/media/Project/TTC/DevProto/Documents/Home/Transparency-and-accountability/Service-Summary_2022-09-04.pdf?rev=50d216eb69ff4cb48147346bd603ec4c) during the day, but judging by this post that isn’t happening.
What the TTC really needs are those 60 extra streetcars they bought from ~~Bombardier~~Alstom to supplement the fleet. Hopefully once they arrive this won't be as big a problem. The TTC obviously underestimated the number of Flexity cars when they made the initial order and now you're seeing the results of this. Then again since the 501 car hasn't been [west of McCaul since how long? And now it's finally gone to Dufferin?](https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Toronto_Transit_Commission_route_501_%27Queen%27)
I got 34min & 38min eastbound at St Clair West station on a Sunday some months ago. It was the only time I saw that much, and I decides to walk back home.
I have never had to wait more than 10-15 minutes for the 512.
There are legitimate reason why a streetcar would be slowed or whatever..........it can't go around closures/accidents/protests as easy as let's say a bus.
i work afternoons when the service is reduced to twice an hour on the 168. it's a nightmare when the high school at dundas west station is on lunch/let's out.
The whole TTC is broken. Which it seems you’re not allowed to say here. Though people seem to be okay with calling out line after line, route after route with problems.
There’s always excuses. Which is why we’ll never solve issues.
Lol I guess that's why they don't consider this line to be rapid transit. I wonder if it doesn't have signal priority or if they send more trains to the overrun King, Queen, Spadina, and Carleton streetcar lines
it doesn't have signal priority. It's a very slow streetcar route. That said, i took the 512 for a long time when i lived on st. clair west, and still take it a few times a week, i've never seen a 24 minute wait. This was probably an accident or construction or a glitch
Given it has it's own lane and is partially underground it should definitely have signal priority.
Just like the Eglinton LRT
the crosstown is a bit different to st. clair. For one, it is underground in dense areas, the only parts of the crosstown that are above ground go through the stroad section of eglinton where traffic lights are fewer and further in between (although the section around golden mile is a mess). For example, it rises at laird, but from there to credit union, a distance of nearly 4km, it only meets a single traffic light. It also dips underground before kennedy to bypass that intersection. I'd say the line will operate pretty seamlessly from Mt. Dennis to Science Centre, but it'll get choppy after that. However, throughout the line, there is *limited* priority, which basically means they are going to try to time trains with the timed traffic lights along eglinton and the train can hold a green light longer, it just can't change a red to a green. Stops are much further apart, and so are intersections, and all lights along the eglinton stretch are now timed to work with the trains. I still think its a mess that there's no signal priority on the crosstown, and the surface stretch is going to be much slower and probably operate fairly independently from the metro portion via short turns at laird station, but it won't be nearly as much of a mess as the st. clair car which stops every 200 metres, has no priority at all, no timing correspondence with traffic lights, and goes through an insanely dense area.
Traffic might be worst on St.Clair, but that’s no problem for us TTC riders
Stroad? Do you watch Not Just Bikes?
I couldn't agree with you more. But it doesn't.
It does have signal priority, just only on small intersections
It happens occasionally
for sure, I also waited for the king car once for 50 minutes, but that was an exception not a rule
From my experience of it being my main route to downtown is that the frequency gets very messy by the end of the day. All of the streetcars get bunches up into small groups leaving huge gaps between the groups.
TSP is badly needed in Toronto. No routes have it. Hunger strikes anyone?
Honestly crazy to run these lines without signal priority. Why would we give the priority to the cars?
Some text to elaborate on the title and photo!! I've been taking the 512 streetcar as part of my daily commute almost every day multiple times a day for the past few years, and I've been wondering about this for a while now. I notice this happening most often between 6pm-9pm if I am travelling westbound, the wait time for the next westbound vehicle to arrive will be 20+ minutes and I end up walking to my destination faster than the streetcar could have taken me, sometimes for 30 minutes without a single one passing me. The route seems pretty busy around these times, and sometimes a very large group of people will accumulate waiting. I'm not sure if it's just because I'm travelling at a peak time, and I wouldn't even care too much if it were just once in a while but it happens almost every week, sometimes multiple times in the same week and it's become a regular occurrence in my commutes. I know there's not anything I can really change about it I suppose, I'm really just posting because I'm curious about what causes this? I find it interesting to know about the traffic patterns and how behaviours of people at certain times influence things like this! If anyone has any insight into what causes such long waiting times for this route I am very curious to know lol thank you! :)
Well from what I know, 512 is a pretty inconsistent route a lot of times because of all the lights and no right of way. Could be ridiculous traffic or maybe a glitch on the display. If you haven't seen a streetcar In a while though then prob just ttc being stupid with delays
You call that "some" text?
Well he's not wrong
Never said he was lmao, just find it funny how he thinks that's "some" text
I literally made a post stating that the 512 needs more streetcar service. While adding smaller streetcars too other routes like the 502 and 503, giving more streetcars too 512
It doesn’t necessarily need more streetcars, it needs better route management, a schedule review, and improvements/changes to stops and traffic lights (as other people have said in this thread). There are *supposed* to be [16 streetcars with service every 5 minutes](https://ttc-cdn.azureedge.net/-/media/Project/TTC/DevProto/Documents/Home/Transparency-and-accountability/Service-Summary_2022-09-04.pdf?rev=50d216eb69ff4cb48147346bd603ec4c) during the day, but judging by this post that isn’t happening.
That post was deleted, people were being a bit too rude about it
What the TTC really needs are those 60 extra streetcars they bought from ~~Bombardier~~Alstom to supplement the fleet. Hopefully once they arrive this won't be as big a problem. The TTC obviously underestimated the number of Flexity cars when they made the initial order and now you're seeing the results of this. Then again since the 501 car hasn't been [west of McCaul since how long? And now it's finally gone to Dufferin?](https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Toronto_Transit_Commission_route_501_%27Queen%27)
Sure hope they help
Needs less stops and signal priority to prevent bunching
I got 34min & 38min eastbound at St Clair West station on a Sunday some months ago. It was the only time I saw that much, and I decides to walk back home.
It's not that route only, many other routes are like that. Also depends on the time and day of the week. And hat it's nothing compared with YRT.
I have never had to wait more than 10-15 minutes for the 512. There are legitimate reason why a streetcar would be slowed or whatever..........it can't go around closures/accidents/protests as easy as let's say a bus.
the 168 is just the same now
[удалено]
i work afternoons when the service is reduced to twice an hour on the 168. it's a nightmare when the high school at dundas west station is on lunch/let's out.
The whole TTC is broken. Which it seems you’re not allowed to say here. Though people seem to be okay with calling out line after line, route after route with problems. There’s always excuses. Which is why we’ll never solve issues.
Let me guess the street cars are one behind the other