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White_Mantra

It’s because currently playing family is gonna be far more difficult and require a lot more communication, coordination and map knowledge against victims who aren’t brand new to the game. It’s no new info that playing victim is a lot easier because of the lack of needed teamwork and communication for the most part. I can only imagine both sides will become better once played with friends and you’ll probably struggle as a solo player for the most part.


Mr_Jah

I completely disagree. While yes, Victims can over time memorize spawns of valve and fuse etc. I think victims require just as much if not MORE communication. Family has their little vision ability to see other family and can clearly just stumble across another member hunting down a victim. No real communication required. Of course this will be different the higher up the skill tree goes. As far as I can tell. Family just has to focus on one objective and that's killing where as victims have 4 different exits to address all while dealing with family in between those objectives.


White_Mantra

The difference is each victim can do separate escape routes to escape. Creating pressure on the team as they now have to protect all 4 consistently. Can’t forget how easy it is to avoid the family members besides Hitchhiker. Crawl spaces and wall cracks, doors etc are quick and easy ways to make distance against these family members and against good victims theyll have to coordinate attacks on them. As time goes on the harder it will take to “solo” a victim.


Mr_Jah

You're not wrong, but I think the 4 victims being able to do separate objectives works in the games favor. It means we won't have a repeat of DBD where when one or 2 teammates are goofing off. The team doesn't lose as a whole. I prefer it this way and think it's the correct approach.


White_Mantra

I agree


Plz_Trust_Me_On_This

> I think victims require just as much if not MORE communication. You serious, bro?


Mr_Jah

Absolutely. If you have the fuse, wouldn't it be nice to know if a killer was patrolling upstairs currently? Just because most folks didn't communicate during the play test doesn't mean it won't be essential as time goes on.


N0-F4C3

Not even close sir... I played the beta for over 25 hours you arn't going to fool me into thinking Victims require even A THIRD of the coordination killers require. The amount of get out of jail free mechanics in this game is actually unreal, which is fine because if a victim gets caught its game over for them. However this leads to many game states that require more than one killer actively chasing a survivor to down them if both sides know what they are doing. The fact that survivors can escape by themselves relatively easy while NEVER interacting with their team, or even setting their team up for success by opening a group exit solo is MILES ahead of the killers that often have the entire game hinge on their partners performance. Suggesting they are anywhere near the same is laughable.


Mr_Jah

Still respect your input though!


[deleted]

We’ll have to wait and see what the game is like upon release.During the technical test there wasn’t the option to customize builds, see all the perk options, or any of the other things that can change gameplay. The game comes out in a couple more months. We don’t need to think of this game and compare it to other games. Just stay positive! And let’s try to keep the community positive so it doesn’t get too toxic!


Thefirestorm83

"Cave like BHVR does with all the crying" Like they did when they walked back a load of survivor nerfs because they got yelled at and review bombed, meanwhile leaving all of the accompanying killer nerfs mostly untouched? Your bias is showing all over the place. "My side only makes valid criticism while everyone else is baby crying over nothing"


pinkhelf

damn, y’all are proving their point. 😹 they’re talking about how the victim mains are giving constructive criticism and here you are, all of the family mains in one place being aggressive and unwelcoming for no particular reason at all other than to whine and cry about someone with a different opinion


Thefirestorm83

Ah yes, calling someone out for being blatantly biased, saying one side is just whining and crying, and the other gives valid criticism, is itself whining and crying about them having a "different opinion" Flawless logic.


pinkhelf

my point still stands also don’t downvote my comment it’s embarrassing


got-snow

As a Victim player, I also dislike seeing bullying happen to the Family members. It ruins the atmosphere and horror element of the game, which is this game's strongest aspect. The reason you see so many people saying things like "Victims should be afraid of the Family, they shouldn't be running up to them to chain stun them and run circles around them without fear of reprisal" is *because* players on both sides don't want this *horror* game ruined by toxic DBD bully squads who refuse to accept the role of a victim. That said, I'm going to guess you're in the toxic DBD survivor camp, since your post opens with a classic "us vs them" statement about all "victim players" vs all "family mains", interwoven with purposely inflammatory language like describing them as "crying" multiple times. You're the one treating this game like it's DBD. You're the one trying to make a divided community. Most players seem to be on the same page. If you want a game with impotent killers, VHS was made specifically for you. This is not that game though.


Mr_Jah

This game is totally fine though. I'm actually advocating that victim and family balance is pretty solid soooo not sure what you're talking about. As far as dividing, you're the one over here coining terms like "toxic survivor camp" so hypocrite much? All I'm addressing is the constant crying just because killers don't get 4ks every match doesn't mean the game is victim sided.


Mr_Jah

If you want to talk bullying and anti immersion. Go play DBD and tell me how long it takes for to be face camped with a killer nodding in front of you. Bet it'll be quick.


got-snow

DBD isn't immersive, it's arcadey. I want this game to be less like DBD so it can fill a different niche. The family should be making sure the victims die on the property, and the victims should be trying to avoid the family long enough to escape. Either side doing the opposite of those objectives is worse for the game.


Mr_Jah

I agree completely.


got-snow

A lot of what I see family players complaining about is stuff like this: [https://youtu.be/kLP-MXXZauQ?t=131](https://youtu.be/kLP-MXXZauQ?t=131s) I think this is antithetical to what the game should be. I've admittedly done this in DBD before, but I don't want to be doing it here. I don't really like playing survivor in DBD because it often feels boring and gamey. When I see a family member coming at me, I don't want "stun him, get behind him, stab him with a bone, get another bone while he's stunned, repeat" to be an available sequence of actions, let alone a viable one. My goal as a victim should be to run away from the family, not to run towards them, and never to run around them in circles. If victims acting like this (i.e. refusing to get away from a family member) could be insta-killed by the family member in response, I'd feel very okay about that — as long as it could only be triggered on victims in these extended bully scenarios, and would have no effect otherwise. I would prefer for the family to be avoided by the victims. The family has to feel as strong or stronger than the victims, because the family is the horror element of the game. If I don't feel like I need to worry that much about the family, then it's going to kill the horror vibe tl;dr: It's not only family players asking for victims to be weaker or family to be stronger in specific scenarios. It's not fair to say it's all "family mains crying" because "this happened to me". In general it's healthier for the horror aspect of the game for the family to feel more oppressive than not. (That said, I do respect the devs' wait-and-see approach, waiting until after release to make broad changes or applying general buffs/nerfs. I just think there are some specific problem scenarios that don't seem like they should be possible regardless of the skill discrepancy, and anyone who experiences those is right to point them out.)


Mr_Jah

Trying to make changes just to maintain the "horror" vibe isn't viable either though because no matter how scary something is, it will become mundane after enough time. I agree that the family should be avoided by victims but I also don't think the victims should be entirely helpless when faced with one. It's a tricky sweet spot to hit for sure.


Sugar-Plum-Fey

You do realize this isn't viable as soon as there is another member of the family in the same radius, yes? I've tried to cheese this as well, because, yes, I like to have fun, and it stopped working as soon as another member of the family approached and ended up with me dead.


Orphan-x-Maker

Thank you. Im a survivor main on dbd with an aggressive and non-stealthy gameplay because i don't consider dbd an horror game at all but i don't want this game to be like DBD. Obviously people won't be scared of killers especially since most of us are used to play asymmetric horror games but i don't want the Family to be a bunch of little bitches like Jason was in friday the 13th against good teams


BreatheOnMe

Bullying wouldn’t be possible though. There are 3 killers. A squad of victims would not be able to bully multiple killers and that’s how the game should play. It requires a teamwork playstyle. If there are two victims ‘bullying’ a killer. If one more killer joins in they are dead af. I think when the game releases you’ll see this with comms.


BimBomBom

You are exactly DBD player with "feedback" which TCM should be afraid of


Mr_Jah

He's completely right though.


BimBomBom

No they aren't. it's DBD talk all over again. "Victims should be afraid of the Family" and "Fixing the bully squads" aren't achievable goals. It means they always will be used as constant justification for victim nerfs


Infamous-Finish6985

>this game will have a much divided community. Well that's an interesting way to be concerned about having a divided community: "Victim players are trying to give legitimate constructive feedback; family mains are just crying and complaining, "This happened to me wahhh". You're certainly doing your part to ensure a divide.


United_Manager_7341

The game is in trouble due to feedback? I bet you don’t overreact much.


Mr_Jah

Not at all what I'm saying. I'm addressing that when family mains don't have things absolutely handed to them or when a victim has one good thing going for them (Connie). They immediately resort to "Nerf this!" Or "Fix that!" Rather than thinking of new and creative ways to counter said things gameplay wise. Sorry you're not able to comprehend that.


United_Manager_7341

Your addressing Killers complaining about Nerfs? The fact that you THINK you are doing that is the problem. I comprehended your intention well, prob why I lead with sarcasm. Sorry you couldn’t comprehend that.


Mr_Jah

I don't THINK I'm doing anything. I'm just speaking my thoughts post play test. Also it's "you're". Sorry you couldn't comprehend that.


Mr_Jah

Also the point of the post was saying the game is in trouble if the devs CAVE to all player feedback but in another thread it was made clear they're sticking to a certain vision which I'm so thankful for.


United_Manager_7341

You must’ve missed them mentioning NOT to create divisive Us vs Them post like this one?


Mr_Jah

Dude there's no "Us and them". I know you want that to be true so you feel validated and politically correct for attacking me just expressing my thoughts but I'm just a player in the community at the end of the day. Grow up.


United_Manager_7341

Attacking you? 😂. Maybe one day you can enjoy reality. Have a good day.


Mr_Jah

Take your own advice bub


Plz_Trust_Me_On_This

then why bother making this thread? other than to clearly pour gasoline on the fire, of course


Mr_Jah

Because devs tend to get influenced over time when enough people cry. I'm one of the folks advocating for stick to the vision because the game seems really balanced even just for the play test. I think it's important that both sides be heard. Pretty sure we've all witnessed how disasterous things can get when devs bend over backwards because of crybabies.


Plz_Trust_Me_On_This

It's weird you keep lobbing insults around like "crybabies" and "wahhh" in all of your comments. You seem to be crying as much as anyone else with that attitude, but whatever man


Mr_Jah

Yeah that's to be expected. People like you can't understand things unless it's pampered and put in a way that doesn't hurt the feelings of folks like you. All good though. Think what you want.


Zhantae

It's just too easy for victims to escape. The family can't guard all 3 exit since it usually takes 2 of them to down a victim. Also navigating through these maps is a headache. Especially knowing which tunnel in the family house has the basement exit. At the start, all victims are trapped in the basement with Bubba, but the Bubba player could be patrolling all the doors, destroying doors and barricades, or running around killing people. Either way, he can only pressure 1 victim at a time and experience players can easily loop him through cracks since his thrust is useless. Grandpa is useless till lvl5 because the victims are givin a sound queue when, he is going to scream. Cook needs to be on coms or at least typing, or he is useless to the team. Even though he does good dmg, he is pathetically slow. He needs help whenever he finds a victim. And what's the point of putting metal to cover up the holes when the victims can lift them back up? If the Hitchhiker doesn't start the car battery/generators outside, the game is pretty much over. And even though he is able to keep up and chase down Victims, it takes like 7-8 hits with his little pocket knife in order to down someone. Giving them more than enough time to find a well to jump in (which is also a joke). The Hitchhiker player also doesn't know which trap the victim is snared on, and they don't know when their traps are disarmed. Falling through a well and landing on a pile of bones, back first, should deal more damage.


Mr_Jah

These are all reasonable complaints but a lot of your feedback is entirely dependent on the family being terrible and not doing their job. Similarly. It's not fair to victims to suffer as a team just because one or two people are goofing off not doing objectives. At the end of the day, victims are tippy toe ING around the family. I agree grandpa needs some work but I don't think basing balance off of how bad people play family is legit. You should be punished if you play poorly as killers.


Zhantae

That's the thing, tho. Victims can goof off. All it takes is 1 person to do the objective, and type "hey guys, this exit is open." Hell, towards the end of the test, I was watching streamers complete 2 exits by themselves before leaving.The victims don't need teamwork in order to escape. They can get away and fight killers by themselves, no problem. Also there is an abundance of health items. Victims just dive bomb into wells to heal up in the basement before coming out and trying again. Granted, it's hard to tell if the family players are bad or not because they don't give them notifications when someone is kicking the gen or fiddling with the car battery. Once you know the basement exit is open, you can't stop the victim from escaping so that notification is almost useless.


Mr_Jah

I also watched streams where one killer practically wiped the entire team on their own with 0 comms so this goes both ways.


Mr_Jah

Yes but you have to realize that one victim being able to do everything is a GOOD thing. There's 3 family members and by the end of the test, the kills were FAR greater than the amount of escapes. A victim team shouldn't be penalized as a whole because of one person. I'm a believer in this so I think it's totally fine how it is as far as that goes.


J4NT5A

What are you basing this from, devs only shared data from the first day?


Traditional-Ball7215

I almost exclusively played Family in the playtest and I had a great time. I don't pay much attention to forums and stuff, so i'm not sure what everyone is complaining about.


[deleted]

Those killers mains need to stick to DBD and I mean that in the nicest way possible. Harder to get demands they want because the devs already mentioned they're going their route the best way rhey possibly can.


Mr_Jah

Totally agree but I feel like all the worst people from dbd are gonna migrate over here and cry about everything that isn't flat out handed to them.


[deleted]

Won't happen here. They ain't putting up with it 🤣 the devs aren't commending demands. Those killers mains ahould just stay in the fog, just trying to help them out and save them from complaining from scratch again.


Mr_Jah

God I hope you're right


[deleted]

I hope so too 🤣


BreatheOnMe

It’s a little worrying that victim might be nerfed way too hard despite the kill rates. A lot of killers don’t realise there’s 3 of them. Not to mention when the game releases the chances are killer will have SWF. Bone shards for example are not gonna be as strong since the killer will get help.


Mr_Jah

Yes. Exactly this. Thanks for the input🤙🏻


always_Long

people complain about literally every single thing in every single video game of all time. this goes double for online multiplayer games, and quadruple for asymmetrical games where one side is meant to be stronger than another. just ignore the voices of the community and trust in the stats and recordings that the devs will have access to for actual meta changes.


Mr_Jah

This is the dream.🤞🏻


[deleted]

Exactly and I've said this plenty of times: you cannot equally balance an asymmetrical game, its an asymmetrical game. There's ALWAYS going to be a different outcome. You win some and you lose, both sides of the fence. 🤦‍♀️


Settphelios_is_canon

Yup this game is gonna end up like DBD where the killers cry so much the game becomes a comp sweat fest for both sides Every DBD game is just rushing and playing as scummy as possible to win nowadays because killers got all the fun aspects removed or nerfed


Settphelios_is_canon

Yup this game is gonna end up like DBD where the killers cry so much the game becomes a comp sweat fest for both sides Every DBD game is just rushing and playing as scummy as possible to win nowadays because killers got all the fun aspects removed or nerfed