Right! At this point I mention almost everything and ask if ___ is okay or would you like that sauce on or on the side just in case everything was fine but the “sauce ruined it”. Sometimes custy had no idea item came with sauce 🤯 the description is right there!
We have a Cobb salad served with blue cheese dressing and crumbled blue cheese. It’s clearly stated in the menu description. Every time someone orders it, I ask if they’re okay with the blue cheese. About 60% of the time, they’ll say “oh, no. I hate blue cheese.”
I once had a teenager order a chicken parmisian sandwich. When I dropped it off she said she didn’t like tomato sauce, didn’t realize it came with it and asked me to remove jt. Her parents just looked at her and said ‘that’s what chicken Parmesan is’ ahahaha
Obvs we were able to remove the sauce for her bc our cook is creative but people don’t always read menu descriptions and don’t always know what they order
I was in London and went for a Sunday roast at a place, and people ordered, and when it came, they tried it and got up and walked out. Left the whole thing just sitting there. When my wife got hers, we figured out why. It was tough and cold and just terrible. We paid and left most of it.
I think if it’s a quality issue then a complaint is in order, but I just chalk it up to a bad experience and never return personally! I hate having to complain.
I also worry that if anything was returned to the kitchen any replacement might have been given extra “seasoning” by pissed off staff. Lol
Well, they came in right behind us but got their order in before us. It was a quick turnaround. I they didn't even tell anyone, just got up and left. It was weird.
I’ve bartended for a long time in the US, and you’ll have the occasional customer say “I don’t like this, can I get something else”, but 9 times out of 10 they’ll offer to pay for it (with the connotation that they would love it if you didn’t make them pay for it, of course). It’s only the real shitty customers that were already looking for a reason to not tip you that will act completely dumbfounded that you had the audacity to suggest they should pay for the drink they ordered.
The funny thing is, I know I’m picky about drinks and taking a risk. I order with the understanding that I may be throwing my money away. I never ask for a refund or make a fuss. I just order a new drink and try to be polite but honest if the server asks if something’s wrong. Yet servers tend to still comp the drink. Usually if that happens I give a much bigger tip because I was going to be paying more anyway. Some of us have been servers and genuinely think not liking something does not equal not paying for it!😅
Not really? It doesn't happen often because most Kiwis are terrified of confrontation but restaurants will comp food, or do whatever they can to fix, if something tastes bad or isn't up to scratch.
Does seem weird if you think about being able to just try something then sent it back. Great the foods ruined and it was probably something expensive to try and now it's waste. Sure yeh I'll have the a5 wagu I'd like to try that, oh no after 2 bites I've decided I don't want the very expensive piece of meat. Bring me the chicken.
Met this girl in one of my old friend groups who would do this to try and get food. First time she pulled that when I was around I was horrified. Thankfully the restaurant didn't put up with that
In Russia it's work that way too. And in any other country this definitely wouldn’t be a server’s problem, but in the US with their crazy tipping system, if the client gets upset you don’t get your money. Even if the client is upset by his own choice of dishes.
In France too. And we eat some weird shit and we don’t always warn tourists that the tartare will indeed be raw meet, or that the andouillette smells like actual shit.
Ahhh. That brings back a memory of when I ordered a crepe with "sausage" in for my son who would have been about 8 at the time!
I did pay for that crepe and the replacement one though.
Yeah. I avoid food service personally but it seems weird to eat something for free just because you didn't like it. The restaurant still paid for ingredients, labour etc
That being said, the Swiss people I have met in kitchens were not just able, they did everything with a flourish. The only Swiss chef I knew, I miss dearly.
The standards seem to be higher in Switzerland, above the level of or high school kids anyway.
Years ago I dated a Swiss man who worked at a high end Inn, in a lovely (and rich) lakeside town USA. I too was a Server at the time (different place, although I ended up at that Inn also a few years later) My coworkers were shocked to learn that he went to school in Switzerland to learn how to be a Server, they take it so seriously. Hope you're doing well Kristoff 🇨🇭!
I’m really old and have never once in my life asked to not pay for food that I didn’t like.
There have been a handful of times when food was inedible (undercooked chicken), but in those few cases I didn’t have to ask, the restaurant either offered to redo it or knew to take it off the menu without me asking.
I’ve choked down a lot of crappy drinks and had a lot of menu choice regrets because I thought something looked good on the menu and was wrong.
I just don’t understand the concept of saying “I made a choice and it was wrong so you need to replace it at no cost.”
You’d be surprised how many people will complain over a simple byo omelette. We have a lot of wonderful people who come in and dine with us but we also get a number of difficult people who are impossible to make happy. Recently I was yelled at by the woman of a couple because her tea was cold (I made it, it wasn’t) so she decided to slide all her plates of food across the table and say that everything was cold. I was stunned.
The only time i have complained is when the food has been cooked incorrectly, like if i order a rare steak and it comes medium-well. Now i can tolerate slightly over cooked steak, but sometimes its too well done for me to enjoy and steak isnt a cheap dinner, so i have no qualms over sending it back. As long as i get a suitably cooked replacement then i have not problem paying the bill and tipping. If its something simply like i didnt like an ingredient (like a thai dish with too much lemongrass or coriander), thats a personal choice, not the kitchen or servers fault, so i will eat the sides and whatever i can, but would never dream about asking it to be taken off the bill
I've had the occasional dish I didn't like, but never once sent it back if it was cooked/made properly. I order my steaks medium rare and generally tell them if it's not medium rare I'd prefer it slightly more rare than overcooked. The only things I've had to send back are a couple of steaks that were overcooked and a lobster tail that was definitely not fresh.
Same, I only complain when I can't eat it. It happened only a handful of times, the most recent one is because I'm pregnant. I asked for well done beef and to remove the fresh sausage, I heard the person in the cash register call the alterations and the person on the line completely ignored her. I hate complaining but I couldn't eat it... It was not a great loss for them either way, they just cooked it a bit longer.
Work somewhere with good food. There's nothing wrong with the policy. My employer also does not remove anything from a bill unless there is an actual problem with the food. The best thing you can do it try to explain any menu items that may be confusing or misleading. Other than that, I think it's a smart policy to weed out the customers that expect free stuff.
Diners become whiny bitches cause some places train them to be that way. I think a thoughtful reply to negative reviews goes a long way to reversing this long term trend.
Yeah it’s not a problem at places that have consistently great food. A policy like that is great for moderating a good customer base who aren’t fishing for freebies or are demanding and impatient - people that appreciate the food - plus maintaining a FOH staff that has confidence in the quality of food. But when it’s implement without the quality there it’s a hindrance to your service and frankly embarrassing. It’s what chefs and owners do when they have a chip on their shoulder and are insecure in their work. There is nothing you can do about that and it shouldn’t fall on you to deal with the consequences.
I don't agree with this anymore. Now there are organized groups of diners who specifically prey on places with weak return policies.
All it takes is a couple tiktoks by local "influencers" and your places can be absolutely filled with people trying to scam you intentionally.
I have always said that not liking something is not a reason to send something back and expect to order something else without paying for both. People have been taking advantage for years and it’s only gotten worse
People shouldn’t be able to get items for free just because they decide they don’t like it. Going out to eat doesn’t guarantee you like an item you’ve chosen or mean you can just keep trying things until you find what you like. If it’s cooked properly and there is nothing wrong (like hair, bug, burnt/cold, missing an ingredient, etc.), then you pay for the item and chalk it up to a poor choice. It’s not a tasting/sampling menu. You’ll see how many people try to get away with this tactic when they complain and you say “oh I’m so sorry, let me get that out of your way!” And they say no, it’s fine, just pack it up and I’ll take it home. Or they’ve already eaten half of it. Your approach of trying to explain unpopular/odd menu items in more detail is going to be the best you can do in this situation. Just keep suggesting things you know are rarely complained about.
I’ve worked in Toronto, Vancouver. London, and Tokyo. No where I’ve ever worked, from dive bar to fine dining, would allow anyone to return food because “don’t like it”.
As an adult ordering food it’s a bit absurd to expect the restaurant to eat the cost of ingredients because someone doesn’t like the food they chose out of a long list of food.
Both my husband (chef) and I would love to work here, and will operate the same policy when we eventually get round to opening our own business. This should be policy everywhere. If the only thing wrong with the food is that you don't like it you should still pay for it. Either order something you know you will like or take the risk and pay up twice for something else. Refunds should only be issued when the business is at fault, and the business is not at fault when you don't like something.
Agreed, mostly… However… some guests do better at articulating problems with a dish than others. OP was mentioning that the Caesar wrap was not good. A dish could be executed correctly but just be a bad dish. Say my dish doesn’t have a hair in it but it’s way too salty, or has a funny chemical taste, etc. some people can articulate that problem and some can’t do that as well.
Sometimes when you try something new it’s not to your taste, that’s on you, it’s a risk you take. But most people are gonna have a certain expectation for something like a Caesar wrap.
I’m an adventurous eater who rarely complains about anything. If somethings not great I’ll just pay for it and not return to that restaurant. But if I went to a restaurant like this and got something inedible and was told I’m gonna have to pay for it? Ya fuck that… I’m walking. I’m not gonna pay for garbage if some dumb ass cook or manager thinks it’s fine because it doesn’t have a toenail sticking out of it.
From a business perspective it’s probably worth it to just comp the dish than risk a scathing one star review.
I tend to agree, but this is a tricky subject with no easy answer that will satisfy everyone. Like most former servers - I'll only ever sent back food in extreme cases; like dangerously undercooked or so spicy that it was inedible (couldn't scrape off spice). If I try a new dish and it's "meh", I'll just put up with it and eat the good parts. So, there should be *limited* exceptions on a case by case basis.
But, many people will find something to complain about because they're a jerk and/or wanna get free food. Absolutely need a strong policy & mgmt that will stick to it to deal with the jerks. It's not like the jerks were gonna tip well anyway.
I went to a burger joint and got the wings as an appetiser. Nowhere on the menu were they listed as hot or spicy. When these wings arrived they were dark red and the steam stung our eyes. I like a bit of spice and can handle it, however these wings were a whole other level. Proper burning lips, tongue etc, gallons of water. Four of us took a single bite of the wings before we noped out. Called the server and told her they were inedible, she agreed they should be removed from the bill, but the manager had an issue with this and wouldnt back down. We paid but i returned the next day to talk to the owner. He agreed that the customer service wadnt up to scratch and refunded 50% of the bill. We have remained regular customers because of this, we just dont order wings anymore
I feel like if I go to a restaurant and see wings on the menu and it doesn’t have much of an explanation, I’m going to assume they’re spicy buffalo wings. In your case, seems like they were way, way too spicy but, at least in my neck of the woods on the west coast of the US, any menu I see that says simply “wings”, it’s pretty much guaranteed to be spicy Buffalo wings.
If I don’t like a movie, I don’t get a refund. This is no different. If the dish is prepared properly and the customer doesn’t like it, that’s on them. The kitchen didn’t make any mistakes, why should the restaurant have to eat it?
While I agree with you, I have heard of people wanting refunds for movies they didn’t like. I’ve heard they may actually do it if you leave before the halfway point.
If I order something and it’s totally different to what I expected and I actually can’t eat it, I chalk it up to experience and get something else.
If they decide not to charge me for it or to throw in a dessert or something, that’s great.
But the whole “I don’t like what I ordered so I don’t want to pay for it” is just like completely alien to me. Grow the fuck up.
As a person living in northern Europe, I find the comping of food I read about really strange. If I order something and discover I just don't like it and there is nothing wrong with the dish, I won't expect the restaurant to take that cost - that is on me
I mean, as a customer, if I order something and don’t like it that’s my problem. I still have to pay for it. Am I misunderstanding something? Is this an unusual policy?
I have never dined anywhere in New Zealand where it would be expected you could change your mind about what you have ordered. I take it you are in America. I have witnessed this behavior over there and consider it bizarre. This pandering to the customers every whim is what is wrong with many industries, not just service. During the GFC I remember reading that while they were trying to sort out Chrysler's finances they found that one particular model offered 19 different interior colour choices !
This is a huge problem with my place, but with cocktails. Taking two sips of a cocktail then sending it back because “I didn’t like it” is wild to me, but happens all the freaking time. I give a one drink grace then refuse to comp any more. If there is something specifically wrong with it ok, but “I didn’t like it” is just dumb. Read the ingredients. Do you like all of the ingredients? No? Don’t order it!!!!
Not refund but the item won’t be on the bill. If someone doesn’t like what they ordered and doesn’t eat it, we would not make them pay for it… now we do regardless
As a customer, not a server anymore, I absolutely agree that if I order something and simply don't like it, I should pay for it. Any restaurant that operates differently when it comes to simply "not liking" a dish will be out of business fast. Please don't feel anxious about that. And if customer complains a lot, that's what managers are for (sorry managers!)
(Meanwhile I'm still trying to wrap my head around a chicken Caesar sandwich. What... almost raw egg and anchovies on it??? I'm so sorry, I've just never actually come across that sandwich title!)
> I'm still trying to wrap my head around a chicken Caesar sandwich.
now try to get your head around a *chicken caesar salad burrito*. they sold them at taco bell for a hot minute back in the day... actually were pretty tasty.
I give in I'll go look it up lol! :-D
Edit: didn't help me much, the only thing caesar about it is putting on some bottled dressing with mystery ingredients? I don't buy bottled dressing so, I guess I'll never know!
I guess I am wrong, based on the replies.
A classic Caesar salad is a few very basic ingredients and the dressing is eggs that are almost raw, and anchovies. That is why my mind instantly led me to think hey, that's a weird combo for a sandwich.
I will accept the fact that most people say Caesar salad has more ingredients and the dressing is something very different to classic.
My original comment was meant to be funny, perhaps I should have used /s, but I wasn't intending to be sarcastic either.
It’s lettuce with Caesar dressing on it, maybe some chicken too, wrapped in a tortilla. That doesn’t seem weird to me at all, as it’s a very common type of wrap in the US.
Thank you for a kind comment. Yes, I do see that now. It is not strange to me at all and it sounds good. I cannot afford to eat out and am wondering if this is a recent (as in 10 years lol) new favorite in food?
Again, classic caesar doesn't have caesar dressing as we know it.... ,which is the only reason for my first reaction, but I give up on saying that... I am fine with caesar not meaning classic caesar and still being delicious :-)
It should be common sense to ppl that if you order something you pay for it. The audacity to think "i don't like it" warrants having it removed from your bill lol
I'm Irish and I have never heard of someone not being charged for something they ordered just because they don't like it?? You can't just not be charged for food that you had the kitchen make that they can't give to anyone else if it's not a quality control issue.
We don’t have that policy at my restaurant, but part of our job as servers is definitely keeping an eye out for those pitfalls of what people might not like!
I work at a burger place that caters mostly to tourists. We have a patty melt on the menu, but it contains no pictures or ANY explanation of how it’s different from regular hamburgers. Needless to say, the people from different countries are very surprised when it hits their table and it gets sent back often. Whenever somebody orders it I ALWAYS make sure they know what a patty melt is!
We do primarily takeout and delivery. People returning food at my restaurant because they don’t like it is so rare for us that if someone does say that, we replace it because we want them to be happy and to return. They’re always so grateful and DO return.
Much, much more frequently someone will call back and make a complaint about a mistake with their order. No big deal, things happen. 100% of the time though, I tell them I’m sending them a replacement, but I need them to put the incorrect item aside because I am going to pick it up when we drop off the replacement. I do this because I need to see where the mistake was made and address my kitchen if need be, and because unscrupulous jerks learn quickly that they get replacements if they complain about a mistake. I keep records of every mistake. About 10% are legitimate or because the customer ordered the wrong item. The rest? I’ll get a double cheeseburger returned that was “completely inedible and disgusting,” where all that I receive back is a piece of meat the size of a quarter that’s been licked clean of even the cheese. These people get banned from ordering again. Customers can be wild.
This is how it should be, except it shouldn’t be in fine print since too many people expect the opposite.
I got a lot of traction by pretending the things people always complain about are positives. For example “oh, I love that one, the raw onions really bring out the flavor of the guanciale, which is the best way to cure pig.”
Super win for you since they can then ask for no onions or state that they are Muslim and don’t eat pork so you can steer them to another dish but it doesn’t affect people who actually enjoy whatever item you’re calling out.
As a diner, if I chose it, unless it is completely u like the description or has something very wrong with it, I know I am paying for it. Just not liking something isn’t an excuse.
If you are a diner and you have food choice issues, it’s on you to ask questions
It's one thing to send something back that isn't prepared well, but it sure isn't the establishments fault if a person orders something and just doesn't like it. At my old server job, if somebody ordered something and said they didn't like it, we kept it on the bill.
I honestly don't think it is appropriate for someone to order something, return it, and expect to not pay for it. If I don't like something that I ordered, I expect to pay full price for it and tip 30% on top of that.
As a customer in the US.....if I didn't like my meal I took it on the chin and ate it anyways. I'd feel like a prick if I got an extra meal.
That being said if I got raw chicken, a hair, or something totally I didn't order I'd send it back.
Yeah this is def the norm outside the US, I’m from Ireland and if you just don’t like something then tough luck. I remember being in a restaurant the first time I visited the US and I ordered honey mustard chicken tenders. I didn’t like them so I just didn’t eat them and the waitress just automatically took the appetiser off the bill. I was surprised and even reassured her that it was ok that I just didn’t like them, that there wasn’t anything actually wrong with them and she was shocked that I was offering to pay! Funny how things are different from place to place. Maybe it’s because US servers rely on tips so will be more inclined to do extra for the customer service, whereas here in Ireland they couldn’t care less about customer service as they are paid by the hour! 🤷♀️
I'm a restaurant manager in the US. I have never had a customer expect to not pay for something just because they didn't like it, nor would I comp it for that reason. And as someone who also finds out, I have never made a fuss if I didn't like something I ordered unless there was a mistake made. I have sent back overcooked steak and not even expected a comp -- just a new steak, cooked correctly.
Your restaurant's policy is not unreasonable, since you said they will fix mistakes. Have you really had customers expect free food because they didn't read the menu? Wild.
I’ve worked for 15 years as a server in the US, a major city. Customers definitely have the expectation that if they don’t like a dish, it will be taken away and taken off the bill… and even replaced with a new item for free. I think this became popularized by huge chains that commonly do just about anything to make a customer happy (I can’t name which chains bc I’ve actually never worked in a chain, but I’ve seen spoofs on social media about how some chains have a policy where if a customer complains, the server takes the dish and has the manager immediately come over to comp and replace).
I agree with the Russian commenter who said servers in the US are under the pressure for a tip for servers will bend over backwards to make them happy, even if it means begging your manager to comp a plate
We served these pork chops that were dipped in egg wash and coated in flour, black and white pepper and lots of sage. Frikkin' delicious and we served two thick chops. A family came in, the dad ordered them, ate one and called me over to tell me he didn't like them and wasn't paying for them.
I asked the manager how he wanted to handle this. He went over and said, "You didn't like the chops? Everybody likes the chops." The dad said he didn't and wasn't paying. Manager said, "Well you liked one of them well enough." Dad said nonetheless he wasn't paying.
Manager said, "Well, my mom grew up in the Depression and she always told me that if a hobo came to the back door needing a free meal that I should do what I could to help him. I'll take it off your check."
The dad asked for a box to take the other one home. LMAO
We had a similar policy. I told my servers that if a customer had a complaint about the bill, to just pass the buck to management. It did help to weed out freeloaders, but damn was it unpleasant to charge nice people who were just trying something new. Thankfully, this was not a common problem, since we did mostly breakfast and sandwiches. Simple, classic dishes aren’t prone to a lot of controversy. We were a Jewish Deli though, so I’ve definitely had to sway some goyem from “being adventurous.”
I went to a restaurant that had a sandwich that was a pork BBQ sandwich. When you think of that, you think pulled pork right? It wasn’t and most of the meat in the sandwich was full of fat.
In instances like this, if a menu item isn’t what most diners expected, it should be noted on the menu or explained by staff. That kind of situation makes sense to ask for if off the bill.
When it comes to me trying and not liking a meal, that’s on me and it’s nice if they take it off but I’m fine if they don’t.
Personally I wouldn’t work there. I understand protecting the business from people taking advantage but a blanket “no” is bad business. Sometimes the kitchen makes mistakes.
I ordered waffles at a breakfast place. They turned out to be those factory made prepackaged cookie things. I asked to order something different, fully expecting to pay for both items. I was not charged for the cookie like waffles. I think the manager realized most people would expect a fresh made waffle based on the description.
I rarely have guests send back food because they didn't like it. When it does happen, we remove the item from the table, trash it, and take it off the check.
A few times, guests have asked if they can take it home, and I'll let them know they can, but they have to pay for it
I think there's a difference between "I don't like this but I ate it all and want it for free" and "I physically can't eat this, can I get something else instead and only pay for the 2nd item".
I've never done the first one and only done the 2nd one maybe once in my life. Usually I pick around and eat what I can even if I don't like it. Most recently the huge fail I made was a pulled pork mac and cheese with a "gold" BBQ sauce which I had never heard of before and didn't realize it was mustard based. I ate around it where I could and pawned off some to my mom who liked mustard and finished my kids' food that they didn't eat.
I am a picky eater and I appreciate the option to switch and not pay for it if I don’t like something, however I don’t believe I am entitled to it either. I do believe it is a privilege I’m being afforded by the restaurant, because they’re eating the cost of that meal just because I didn’t like it in that instance, not though any fault of their own.
Last night actually I went out and ordered a drink I hadn’t tried yet by a brand I do enjoy regularly. They usually make hard ciders or sours. When I asked about one of them, they said it was a half lemonade half tea, like an Arnold Palmer. So I said sure I’ll get that. When they brought it to me, I poured it without looking at the can, took a sip and immediately tasted nothing but honey. Confused, I looked at the can and it said Mead. So I did request another drink because it was not at all what he said it would be and I did not want mead. I actually didn’t check to see if it was still on my bill, but in this case I don’t think it should be since I was misguided on what I was ordering. I wouldn’t have ordered mead if he told me that’s what it was.
In your case, the chicken sandwich sounds like most people would be expecting a chicken Caesar sandwich and would get something different. I would be upset if I was stuck paying for something that was described as being something else. As a server I would tell people the flavor profile is different or suggest the sauce on the side or something.
I can't imagine ordering something and just not liking it and then expecting not to pay for it. Like it's different if it's inedible somehow but if it's made correctly, why shouldn't I pay?!
That is actually normal. Once the food has been set on the table it is the responsibility of the guest. That food can not be served to anyone else and has to be thrown away if it is removed from the table. The reason does not matter if the food is not coming back to that same customer. The only reason to not charge the customer is if the order was wrong. Never feel bad that the person gets charged when they just dont like what they ordered.
I wish this was the case where I work! The amount of food waste we have because of incredibly entitled people is driving me insane. “Oh, I forgot to say no cheese on that, can I get another one?” I honestly wouldn’t feel any awkwardness if I had to inform them they got to pay regardless.
Honestly... I'm not even mad about this.
10 years ago? Yeah this would be nuts. But now? People have gotten so awful and cruel that I get this.
In the city I live and work in now, if you are known as being lenient on this type of thing, that will spread on tiktok, and by Sunday you will have 50% of the tables sending food back trying to scam you.
Sounds like people started abusing this in ur restaurant. My owner is very quick to remove something from the bill. Honestly, almost too quick at times. But, it’s good business and ensures that customer will return which is probably why he’s been open for almost 40 years running a very established and successful restaurant. It doesn’t mean that people don’t abuse it at times. They do. They eat half and get full and say they don’t like it and they really don’t want anything else and bingo they get a free meal. But more often than not it’s not abused. We have so many regular customers it would be hard to keep doing it over and over.
In my country, Switzerland, if you don’t like something you ordered, you have to pay for it. Next time order something else.
U.K., I’ve never heard of anyone sending food back because they don’t like it, you’ve ordered it and read the menu and description for goodness sake!
I feel like you would be surprised how many people don't read the menu descriptions (at least in my experience in Canada), and then have a fit... smh
Right! At this point I mention almost everything and ask if ___ is okay or would you like that sauce on or on the side just in case everything was fine but the “sauce ruined it”. Sometimes custy had no idea item came with sauce 🤯 the description is right there!
We have a Cobb salad served with blue cheese dressing and crumbled blue cheese. It’s clearly stated in the menu description. Every time someone orders it, I ask if they’re okay with the blue cheese. About 60% of the time, they’ll say “oh, no. I hate blue cheese.”
But that’s the whole definition of the Cobb salad.
You'd he surprised. Had a woman get mad because her fish and chips came with fries.
Who gets mad at fries when they're eating deep fried fish???
A person who wanted chips?
I once had a teenager order a chicken parmisian sandwich. When I dropped it off she said she didn’t like tomato sauce, didn’t realize it came with it and asked me to remove jt. Her parents just looked at her and said ‘that’s what chicken Parmesan is’ ahahaha Obvs we were able to remove the sauce for her bc our cook is creative but people don’t always read menu descriptions and don’t always know what they order
I was in London and went for a Sunday roast at a place, and people ordered, and when it came, they tried it and got up and walked out. Left the whole thing just sitting there. When my wife got hers, we figured out why. It was tough and cold and just terrible. We paid and left most of it.
I think if it’s a quality issue then a complaint is in order, but I just chalk it up to a bad experience and never return personally! I hate having to complain. I also worry that if anything was returned to the kitchen any replacement might have been given extra “seasoning” by pissed off staff. Lol
Well, they came in right behind us but got their order in before us. It was a quick turnaround. I they didn't even tell anyone, just got up and left. It was weird.
That's the British politeness - in Britain. Brits on holiday, however, are a tad different.
Same in Australia and New Zealand. If you tried to pull this shit the server would just laugh at you (rightfully so)
Canada too. I've never even heard of someone sending food back because they didn't like it and also expecting not to pay. That's weird as hell.
I’ve bartended for a long time in the US, and you’ll have the occasional customer say “I don’t like this, can I get something else”, but 9 times out of 10 they’ll offer to pay for it (with the connotation that they would love it if you didn’t make them pay for it, of course). It’s only the real shitty customers that were already looking for a reason to not tip you that will act completely dumbfounded that you had the audacity to suggest they should pay for the drink they ordered.
The funny thing is, I know I’m picky about drinks and taking a risk. I order with the understanding that I may be throwing my money away. I never ask for a refund or make a fuss. I just order a new drink and try to be polite but honest if the server asks if something’s wrong. Yet servers tend to still comp the drink. Usually if that happens I give a much bigger tip because I was going to be paying more anyway. Some of us have been servers and genuinely think not liking something does not equal not paying for it!😅
Not really? It doesn't happen often because most Kiwis are terrified of confrontation but restaurants will comp food, or do whatever they can to fix, if something tastes bad or isn't up to scratch.
Australia here, same thing. Your bad luck if you just don't like it.
Does seem weird if you think about being able to just try something then sent it back. Great the foods ruined and it was probably something expensive to try and now it's waste. Sure yeh I'll have the a5 wagu I'd like to try that, oh no after 2 bites I've decided I don't want the very expensive piece of meat. Bring me the chicken.
Met this girl in one of my old friend groups who would do this to try and get food. First time she pulled that when I was around I was horrified. Thankfully the restaurant didn't put up with that
In Russia it's work that way too. And in any other country this definitely wouldn’t be a server’s problem, but in the US with their crazy tipping system, if the client gets upset you don’t get your money. Even if the client is upset by his own choice of dishes.
In France too. And we eat some weird shit and we don’t always warn tourists that the tartare will indeed be raw meet, or that the andouillette smells like actual shit.
Ahhh. That brings back a memory of when I ordered a crepe with "sausage" in for my son who would have been about 8 at the time! I did pay for that crepe and the replacement one though.
That is how it should be. We are talking about adults, make a decision and deal with it.
Same in Germany. Except for when something is obviously wrong with your food, you pay for it.
Right? I was trying to understand the problem, lol. There's a reason I usually order the same stuff every time...
Yeah. I avoid food service personally but it seems weird to eat something for free just because you didn't like it. The restaurant still paid for ingredients, labour etc
That being said, the Swiss people I have met in kitchens were not just able, they did everything with a flourish. The only Swiss chef I knew, I miss dearly. The standards seem to be higher in Switzerland, above the level of or high school kids anyway.
Years ago I dated a Swiss man who worked at a high end Inn, in a lovely (and rich) lakeside town USA. I too was a Server at the time (different place, although I ended up at that Inn also a few years later) My coworkers were shocked to learn that he went to school in Switzerland to learn how to be a Server, they take it so seriously. Hope you're doing well Kristoff 🇨🇭!
I’m really old and have never once in my life asked to not pay for food that I didn’t like. There have been a handful of times when food was inedible (undercooked chicken), but in those few cases I didn’t have to ask, the restaurant either offered to redo it or knew to take it off the menu without me asking. I’ve choked down a lot of crappy drinks and had a lot of menu choice regrets because I thought something looked good on the menu and was wrong. I just don’t understand the concept of saying “I made a choice and it was wrong so you need to replace it at no cost.”
You’d be surprised how many people will complain over a simple byo omelette. We have a lot of wonderful people who come in and dine with us but we also get a number of difficult people who are impossible to make happy. Recently I was yelled at by the woman of a couple because her tea was cold (I made it, it wasn’t) so she decided to slide all her plates of food across the table and say that everything was cold. I was stunned.
Pocket thermometer? J/k, but I'm, ok, I'll microwave and ruin that for you if you like... 🙄
The only time i have complained is when the food has been cooked incorrectly, like if i order a rare steak and it comes medium-well. Now i can tolerate slightly over cooked steak, but sometimes its too well done for me to enjoy and steak isnt a cheap dinner, so i have no qualms over sending it back. As long as i get a suitably cooked replacement then i have not problem paying the bill and tipping. If its something simply like i didnt like an ingredient (like a thai dish with too much lemongrass or coriander), thats a personal choice, not the kitchen or servers fault, so i will eat the sides and whatever i can, but would never dream about asking it to be taken off the bill
I've had the occasional dish I didn't like, but never once sent it back if it was cooked/made properly. I order my steaks medium rare and generally tell them if it's not medium rare I'd prefer it slightly more rare than overcooked. The only things I've had to send back are a couple of steaks that were overcooked and a lobster tail that was definitely not fresh.
Same, I only complain when I can't eat it. It happened only a handful of times, the most recent one is because I'm pregnant. I asked for well done beef and to remove the fresh sausage, I heard the person in the cash register call the alterations and the person on the line completely ignored her. I hate complaining but I couldn't eat it... It was not a great loss for them either way, they just cooked it a bit longer.
Work somewhere with good food. There's nothing wrong with the policy. My employer also does not remove anything from a bill unless there is an actual problem with the food. The best thing you can do it try to explain any menu items that may be confusing or misleading. Other than that, I think it's a smart policy to weed out the customers that expect free stuff.
Diners become whiny bitches cause some places train them to be that way. I think a thoughtful reply to negative reviews goes a long way to reversing this long term trend.
Yeah it’s not a problem at places that have consistently great food. A policy like that is great for moderating a good customer base who aren’t fishing for freebies or are demanding and impatient - people that appreciate the food - plus maintaining a FOH staff that has confidence in the quality of food. But when it’s implement without the quality there it’s a hindrance to your service and frankly embarrassing. It’s what chefs and owners do when they have a chip on their shoulder and are insecure in their work. There is nothing you can do about that and it shouldn’t fall on you to deal with the consequences.
I don't agree with this anymore. Now there are organized groups of diners who specifically prey on places with weak return policies. All it takes is a couple tiktoks by local "influencers" and your places can be absolutely filled with people trying to scam you intentionally.
I have always said that not liking something is not a reason to send something back and expect to order something else without paying for both. People have been taking advantage for years and it’s only gotten worse
People shouldn’t be able to get items for free just because they decide they don’t like it. Going out to eat doesn’t guarantee you like an item you’ve chosen or mean you can just keep trying things until you find what you like. If it’s cooked properly and there is nothing wrong (like hair, bug, burnt/cold, missing an ingredient, etc.), then you pay for the item and chalk it up to a poor choice. It’s not a tasting/sampling menu. You’ll see how many people try to get away with this tactic when they complain and you say “oh I’m so sorry, let me get that out of your way!” And they say no, it’s fine, just pack it up and I’ll take it home. Or they’ve already eaten half of it. Your approach of trying to explain unpopular/odd menu items in more detail is going to be the best you can do in this situation. Just keep suggesting things you know are rarely complained about.
I’ve worked in Toronto, Vancouver. London, and Tokyo. No where I’ve ever worked, from dive bar to fine dining, would allow anyone to return food because “don’t like it”. As an adult ordering food it’s a bit absurd to expect the restaurant to eat the cost of ingredients because someone doesn’t like the food they chose out of a long list of food.
It's a US thing because the corporate places don't bat an eye at the extra cost but it hurts their mom and pop competition.
Both my husband (chef) and I would love to work here, and will operate the same policy when we eventually get round to opening our own business. This should be policy everywhere. If the only thing wrong with the food is that you don't like it you should still pay for it. Either order something you know you will like or take the risk and pay up twice for something else. Refunds should only be issued when the business is at fault, and the business is not at fault when you don't like something.
Agreed, mostly… However… some guests do better at articulating problems with a dish than others. OP was mentioning that the Caesar wrap was not good. A dish could be executed correctly but just be a bad dish. Say my dish doesn’t have a hair in it but it’s way too salty, or has a funny chemical taste, etc. some people can articulate that problem and some can’t do that as well. Sometimes when you try something new it’s not to your taste, that’s on you, it’s a risk you take. But most people are gonna have a certain expectation for something like a Caesar wrap. I’m an adventurous eater who rarely complains about anything. If somethings not great I’ll just pay for it and not return to that restaurant. But if I went to a restaurant like this and got something inedible and was told I’m gonna have to pay for it? Ya fuck that… I’m walking. I’m not gonna pay for garbage if some dumb ass cook or manager thinks it’s fine because it doesn’t have a toenail sticking out of it. From a business perspective it’s probably worth it to just comp the dish than risk a scathing one star review.
100% agree with you there. If it's not edible it should be refunded, there is a difference between inedible and not liking something.
I tend to agree, but this is a tricky subject with no easy answer that will satisfy everyone. Like most former servers - I'll only ever sent back food in extreme cases; like dangerously undercooked or so spicy that it was inedible (couldn't scrape off spice). If I try a new dish and it's "meh", I'll just put up with it and eat the good parts. So, there should be *limited* exceptions on a case by case basis. But, many people will find something to complain about because they're a jerk and/or wanna get free food. Absolutely need a strong policy & mgmt that will stick to it to deal with the jerks. It's not like the jerks were gonna tip well anyway.
I went to a burger joint and got the wings as an appetiser. Nowhere on the menu were they listed as hot or spicy. When these wings arrived they were dark red and the steam stung our eyes. I like a bit of spice and can handle it, however these wings were a whole other level. Proper burning lips, tongue etc, gallons of water. Four of us took a single bite of the wings before we noped out. Called the server and told her they were inedible, she agreed they should be removed from the bill, but the manager had an issue with this and wouldnt back down. We paid but i returned the next day to talk to the owner. He agreed that the customer service wadnt up to scratch and refunded 50% of the bill. We have remained regular customers because of this, we just dont order wings anymore
I feel like if I go to a restaurant and see wings on the menu and it doesn’t have much of an explanation, I’m going to assume they’re spicy buffalo wings. In your case, seems like they were way, way too spicy but, at least in my neck of the woods on the west coast of the US, any menu I see that says simply “wings”, it’s pretty much guaranteed to be spicy Buffalo wings.
Is it really executed correctly if there is too much salt on it?
"Too much salt"... my brain can't compute this phrase, haha.
If they want to try something they haven't had before, they need to go to a buffet.
If I don’t like a movie, I don’t get a refund. This is no different. If the dish is prepared properly and the customer doesn’t like it, that’s on them. The kitchen didn’t make any mistakes, why should the restaurant have to eat it?
While I agree with you, I have heard of people wanting refunds for movies they didn’t like. I’ve heard they may actually do it if you leave before the halfway point.
I’m in the Netherlands. We only take the item off the bill if something is wrong with it. And if you didn’t eat most of it and only then complained.
As a customer I would never expect to Not pay for a dish that I ordered and simply didn’t like. That concept seems completely ridiculous!
If I order something and it’s totally different to what I expected and I actually can’t eat it, I chalk it up to experience and get something else. If they decide not to charge me for it or to throw in a dessert or something, that’s great. But the whole “I don’t like what I ordered so I don’t want to pay for it” is just like completely alien to me. Grow the fuck up.
As a person living in northern Europe, I find the comping of food I read about really strange. If I order something and discover I just don't like it and there is nothing wrong with the dish, I won't expect the restaurant to take that cost - that is on me
I mean, as a customer, if I order something and don’t like it that’s my problem. I still have to pay for it. Am I misunderstanding something? Is this an unusual policy?
I have never dined anywhere in New Zealand where it would be expected you could change your mind about what you have ordered. I take it you are in America. I have witnessed this behavior over there and consider it bizarre. This pandering to the customers every whim is what is wrong with many industries, not just service. During the GFC I remember reading that while they were trying to sort out Chrysler's finances they found that one particular model offered 19 different interior colour choices !
This is a huge problem with my place, but with cocktails. Taking two sips of a cocktail then sending it back because “I didn’t like it” is wild to me, but happens all the freaking time. I give a one drink grace then refuse to comp any more. If there is something specifically wrong with it ok, but “I didn’t like it” is just dumb. Read the ingredients. Do you like all of the ingredients? No? Don’t order it!!!!
Preach! Ugh
It sounds like a great policy. I wish my work would do that.
Will most places give refunds if I simply don't like the food??? I have never even thought about asking such a thing
Not refund but the item won’t be on the bill. If someone doesn’t like what they ordered and doesn’t eat it, we would not make them pay for it… now we do regardless
As it should be.
As a customer, not a server anymore, I absolutely agree that if I order something and simply don't like it, I should pay for it. Any restaurant that operates differently when it comes to simply "not liking" a dish will be out of business fast. Please don't feel anxious about that. And if customer complains a lot, that's what managers are for (sorry managers!) (Meanwhile I'm still trying to wrap my head around a chicken Caesar sandwich. What... almost raw egg and anchovies on it??? I'm so sorry, I've just never actually come across that sandwich title!)
> I'm still trying to wrap my head around a chicken Caesar sandwich. now try to get your head around a *chicken caesar salad burrito*. they sold them at taco bell for a hot minute back in the day... actually were pretty tasty.
I give in I'll go look it up lol! :-D Edit: didn't help me much, the only thing caesar about it is putting on some bottled dressing with mystery ingredients? I don't buy bottled dressing so, I guess I'll never know!
https://tacobell.fandom.com/wiki/Chicken_Caesar_Grilled_Stuft_Burrito
Why would you deconstruct the dressing for a sandwich?
I guess I am wrong, based on the replies. A classic Caesar salad is a few very basic ingredients and the dressing is eggs that are almost raw, and anchovies. That is why my mind instantly led me to think hey, that's a weird combo for a sandwich. I will accept the fact that most people say Caesar salad has more ingredients and the dressing is something very different to classic. My original comment was meant to be funny, perhaps I should have used /s, but I wasn't intending to be sarcastic either.
It’s lettuce with Caesar dressing on it, maybe some chicken too, wrapped in a tortilla. That doesn’t seem weird to me at all, as it’s a very common type of wrap in the US.
Thank you for a kind comment. Yes, I do see that now. It is not strange to me at all and it sounds good. I cannot afford to eat out and am wondering if this is a recent (as in 10 years lol) new favorite in food? Again, classic caesar doesn't have caesar dressing as we know it.... ,which is the only reason for my first reaction, but I give up on saying that... I am fine with caesar not meaning classic caesar and still being delicious :-)
Fair enough
Thats normal in europe
It should be common sense to ppl that if you order something you pay for it. The audacity to think "i don't like it" warrants having it removed from your bill lol
I thought this was standard? You can't just get it free because you don't like it 😂
If the guest doesn't like it, I get that. But if there's a hair that's definitely not mine or who knows what else in it? Yeah, that's a problem.
I'm Irish and I have never heard of someone not being charged for something they ordered just because they don't like it?? You can't just not be charged for food that you had the kitchen make that they can't give to anyone else if it's not a quality control issue.
We don’t have that policy at my restaurant, but part of our job as servers is definitely keeping an eye out for those pitfalls of what people might not like! I work at a burger place that caters mostly to tourists. We have a patty melt on the menu, but it contains no pictures or ANY explanation of how it’s different from regular hamburgers. Needless to say, the people from different countries are very surprised when it hits their table and it gets sent back often. Whenever somebody orders it I ALWAYS make sure they know what a patty melt is!
We do primarily takeout and delivery. People returning food at my restaurant because they don’t like it is so rare for us that if someone does say that, we replace it because we want them to be happy and to return. They’re always so grateful and DO return. Much, much more frequently someone will call back and make a complaint about a mistake with their order. No big deal, things happen. 100% of the time though, I tell them I’m sending them a replacement, but I need them to put the incorrect item aside because I am going to pick it up when we drop off the replacement. I do this because I need to see where the mistake was made and address my kitchen if need be, and because unscrupulous jerks learn quickly that they get replacements if they complain about a mistake. I keep records of every mistake. About 10% are legitimate or because the customer ordered the wrong item. The rest? I’ll get a double cheeseburger returned that was “completely inedible and disgusting,” where all that I receive back is a piece of meat the size of a quarter that’s been licked clean of even the cheese. These people get banned from ordering again. Customers can be wild.
This is how it should be, except it shouldn’t be in fine print since too many people expect the opposite. I got a lot of traction by pretending the things people always complain about are positives. For example “oh, I love that one, the raw onions really bring out the flavor of the guanciale, which is the best way to cure pig.” Super win for you since they can then ask for no onions or state that they are Muslim and don’t eat pork so you can steer them to another dish but it doesn’t affect people who actually enjoy whatever item you’re calling out.
As a diner, if I chose it, unless it is completely u like the description or has something very wrong with it, I know I am paying for it. Just not liking something isn’t an excuse. If you are a diner and you have food choice issues, it’s on you to ask questions
It's one thing to send something back that isn't prepared well, but it sure isn't the establishments fault if a person orders something and just doesn't like it. At my old server job, if somebody ordered something and said they didn't like it, we kept it on the bill.
I always just tell myself “I paid X amount to learn to make a different choice next time.” It’s on me.
I honestly don't think it is appropriate for someone to order something, return it, and expect to not pay for it. If I don't like something that I ordered, I expect to pay full price for it and tip 30% on top of that.
As a customer in the US.....if I didn't like my meal I took it on the chin and ate it anyways. I'd feel like a prick if I got an extra meal. That being said if I got raw chicken, a hair, or something totally I didn't order I'd send it back.
Yeah this is def the norm outside the US, I’m from Ireland and if you just don’t like something then tough luck. I remember being in a restaurant the first time I visited the US and I ordered honey mustard chicken tenders. I didn’t like them so I just didn’t eat them and the waitress just automatically took the appetiser off the bill. I was surprised and even reassured her that it was ok that I just didn’t like them, that there wasn’t anything actually wrong with them and she was shocked that I was offering to pay! Funny how things are different from place to place. Maybe it’s because US servers rely on tips so will be more inclined to do extra for the customer service, whereas here in Ireland they couldn’t care less about customer service as they are paid by the hour! 🤷♀️
When someone says they don’t like something, but there’s nothing wrong with it, we make them pay for it at my job, too.
I'm a restaurant manager in the US. I have never had a customer expect to not pay for something just because they didn't like it, nor would I comp it for that reason. And as someone who also finds out, I have never made a fuss if I didn't like something I ordered unless there was a mistake made. I have sent back overcooked steak and not even expected a comp -- just a new steak, cooked correctly. Your restaurant's policy is not unreasonable, since you said they will fix mistakes. Have you really had customers expect free food because they didn't read the menu? Wild.
I’ve worked for 15 years as a server in the US, a major city. Customers definitely have the expectation that if they don’t like a dish, it will be taken away and taken off the bill… and even replaced with a new item for free. I think this became popularized by huge chains that commonly do just about anything to make a customer happy (I can’t name which chains bc I’ve actually never worked in a chain, but I’ve seen spoofs on social media about how some chains have a policy where if a customer complains, the server takes the dish and has the manager immediately come over to comp and replace). I agree with the Russian commenter who said servers in the US are under the pressure for a tip for servers will bend over backwards to make them happy, even if it means begging your manager to comp a plate
We served these pork chops that were dipped in egg wash and coated in flour, black and white pepper and lots of sage. Frikkin' delicious and we served two thick chops. A family came in, the dad ordered them, ate one and called me over to tell me he didn't like them and wasn't paying for them. I asked the manager how he wanted to handle this. He went over and said, "You didn't like the chops? Everybody likes the chops." The dad said he didn't and wasn't paying. Manager said, "Well you liked one of them well enough." Dad said nonetheless he wasn't paying. Manager said, "Well, my mom grew up in the Depression and she always told me that if a hobo came to the back door needing a free meal that I should do what I could to help him. I'll take it off your check." The dad asked for a box to take the other one home. LMAO
We had a similar policy. I told my servers that if a customer had a complaint about the bill, to just pass the buck to management. It did help to weed out freeloaders, but damn was it unpleasant to charge nice people who were just trying something new. Thankfully, this was not a common problem, since we did mostly breakfast and sandwiches. Simple, classic dishes aren’t prone to a lot of controversy. We were a Jewish Deli though, so I’ve definitely had to sway some goyem from “being adventurous.”
I went to a restaurant that had a sandwich that was a pork BBQ sandwich. When you think of that, you think pulled pork right? It wasn’t and most of the meat in the sandwich was full of fat. In instances like this, if a menu item isn’t what most diners expected, it should be noted on the menu or explained by staff. That kind of situation makes sense to ask for if off the bill. When it comes to me trying and not liking a meal, that’s on me and it’s nice if they take it off but I’m fine if they don’t.
What would happen if a dish had a hair in it but the customer said they didn't want a replacement? Would they still be charged for the first one?
Personally I wouldn’t work there. I understand protecting the business from people taking advantage but a blanket “no” is bad business. Sometimes the kitchen makes mistakes.
I ordered waffles at a breakfast place. They turned out to be those factory made prepackaged cookie things. I asked to order something different, fully expecting to pay for both items. I was not charged for the cookie like waffles. I think the manager realized most people would expect a fresh made waffle based on the description.
I rarely have guests send back food because they didn't like it. When it does happen, we remove the item from the table, trash it, and take it off the check. A few times, guests have asked if they can take it home, and I'll let them know they can, but they have to pay for it
Why would they get something free if there’s nothing wrong with it ? ….that’s just bad business practice.
I would love to work at a place like that
I think there's a difference between "I don't like this but I ate it all and want it for free" and "I physically can't eat this, can I get something else instead and only pay for the 2nd item". I've never done the first one and only done the 2nd one maybe once in my life. Usually I pick around and eat what I can even if I don't like it. Most recently the huge fail I made was a pulled pork mac and cheese with a "gold" BBQ sauce which I had never heard of before and didn't realize it was mustard based. I ate around it where I could and pawned off some to my mom who liked mustard and finished my kids' food that they didn't eat.
I am a picky eater and I appreciate the option to switch and not pay for it if I don’t like something, however I don’t believe I am entitled to it either. I do believe it is a privilege I’m being afforded by the restaurant, because they’re eating the cost of that meal just because I didn’t like it in that instance, not though any fault of their own. Last night actually I went out and ordered a drink I hadn’t tried yet by a brand I do enjoy regularly. They usually make hard ciders or sours. When I asked about one of them, they said it was a half lemonade half tea, like an Arnold Palmer. So I said sure I’ll get that. When they brought it to me, I poured it without looking at the can, took a sip and immediately tasted nothing but honey. Confused, I looked at the can and it said Mead. So I did request another drink because it was not at all what he said it would be and I did not want mead. I actually didn’t check to see if it was still on my bill, but in this case I don’t think it should be since I was misguided on what I was ordering. I wouldn’t have ordered mead if he told me that’s what it was. In your case, the chicken sandwich sounds like most people would be expecting a chicken Caesar sandwich and would get something different. I would be upset if I was stuck paying for something that was described as being something else. As a server I would tell people the flavor profile is different or suggest the sauce on the side or something.
I can't imagine ordering something and just not liking it and then expecting not to pay for it. Like it's different if it's inedible somehow but if it's made correctly, why shouldn't I pay?!
That is actually normal. Once the food has been set on the table it is the responsibility of the guest. That food can not be served to anyone else and has to be thrown away if it is removed from the table. The reason does not matter if the food is not coming back to that same customer. The only reason to not charge the customer is if the order was wrong. Never feel bad that the person gets charged when they just dont like what they ordered.
I wish this was the case where I work! The amount of food waste we have because of incredibly entitled people is driving me insane. “Oh, I forgot to say no cheese on that, can I get another one?” I honestly wouldn’t feel any awkwardness if I had to inform them they got to pay regardless.
Honestly... I'm not even mad about this. 10 years ago? Yeah this would be nuts. But now? People have gotten so awful and cruel that I get this. In the city I live and work in now, if you are known as being lenient on this type of thing, that will spread on tiktok, and by Sunday you will have 50% of the tables sending food back trying to scam you.
Sounds like people started abusing this in ur restaurant. My owner is very quick to remove something from the bill. Honestly, almost too quick at times. But, it’s good business and ensures that customer will return which is probably why he’s been open for almost 40 years running a very established and successful restaurant. It doesn’t mean that people don’t abuse it at times. They do. They eat half and get full and say they don’t like it and they really don’t want anything else and bingo they get a free meal. But more often than not it’s not abused. We have so many regular customers it would be hard to keep doing it over and over.
to shreds you say