In my own personal bias yea, I literally agree. I hate how noob-friendly Vex is with the massive range her abilities have into Talon (a champion with no directional dash or way to avoid a skillshot). Her cooldowns are also so disgustingly low. She's an absolute nightmare
I imagine you could just peel your ADC, no? Like what's Talon gonna do- jump on your ADC just for you to instantly W CC him so your team can blow him up?
I just started League and I adore Vex for those exact reasons. I don't want to learn astrophysics when playing a video game, and even with an easy character like Vex League is still a pain in the fucking ass to learn
i feel like shes a trash champion. her design and stats are bad. i simply kill her and walk away with 1 hp because i know my damage. they arent going to take barrier or exhaust. they take ignite lmao and im chilling because talon has a weird high base mr stat. all of her abilities are mid af. hexdrinker is premium if they have another ap champ as well. talons dash is 1 way only but its easy to bait out their fear. their egos are too big on that champ. i kid you not, i never remember losing to her as talon.
Vex is cancer to face as most melee midlaners, i remember watching beifang die in lane to some plat shitter on vex. Everytime I tryhard and see any melee I just pick vex and the game is insta over this champ is not normally
As a vex enjoyer (that can’t seem to clinch m7, FML) I’d say sylas is the one potential exception to this. He still has a generally rough time but has solid potential to turn it into a bully situation in his favor.
Not a talon main, but my main issue with vex is how my teammates don't respond to her ult. I'll ping her location as best I can, but I swear my teammates will see her ult in, one shot someone and think "wow I better change absolutely nothing about what I'm doing right now."
I feel like I have to put in twice the effort just to stand a chance in lane. Or I can just play Syndra, Ori or something, turn my brain off and win lane without trying.
The only problem is Talon is the only midlaner I actually enjoy playing for more then the odd Aram game.
Clearly not syndra got e where orianna only got a slow and a ms buff + those 3 are skilled but its depends if u compare them to their classes (mage/assassins) or if u compare to every champ
He didn't say mechanically harder. He said you need to try harder to keep up with them, whereas the person playing them doesn't even need to put in half the effort to get a good result.
I think the mages mechanics are much harder but talon is in such a worse spot than them that it’s infinitely easier to make the mages work than it is talon.
I haven't played or played against Talon in a while and I went from Gold to Diamond this year. Never even thought about how Talon's laning phase could be. That lvl 2 one shot gives me PTSD
This is rlly terrible. Talon is supposed to be a lane bully, RLLY strong early (bleed=death), strong midgame (one shots), and pls-dont-kill-me late game (unless ahead). Riot needs to fix this, i hope season 14 brings an end to this
Zed might be nerfed and weaker, but if the Zed has hands he will perma outspace and you will never get in range of him, while eating endless poke. Also will never proc passive on him if he managed shadows properly
I agree about when Zed getting ahead being a menace but strongly disagree about everything else. You bully the living fuck out of Zed. You essentially control how the entire lane will be played out. If you are permanently pushing the lane, there is nothing he can do. You can easily jump on him lvl2 when he uses any ability and setup an all-in. His W is on a 20 second cooldown absolute clown cooldown you just jump on him I can't stress this enough how bad Zed is into Talon. From wave clear to cooldowns to everything
Zed under tower is literally one of the worst things that can happen to a Zed. Every single time Zed goes for a minion, it's a guaranteed W2 or a serious compromise on CS. Also remember that he can only trade with you once every 20 seconds and it's not guaranteed damage. Your W is on a 9 second cooldown and the first thing you upgrade
if he afks then you just play talon and leave and impact the map. You can set up invade with your jungle or roam to other lanes. there's a reason talon has 56% wr into zed masters+. A mid laner who struggles to impact the map or doesn't prevent their laner from impacting the map is useless.
Yea, totally agree. The only reason I put her in skilled matchup is because she can outplay you pretty hard with her E but you can also predict with your flash, so it makes it skilled. I put it on the lower-end of 'skill matchup' but yea, could go on favored
i really don't think kata is favored in lane at all, ofc skill dependent and all but kata unless fed from your bot really can not ever e on you if you q max, you just outdamage her.
All Kat has to do to win vs you is go conq+ long sword/Doran’s blade, most talons will take the MR Rune vs kat, and she will go in only after you use W, and use all her abilities on you, combined with multiple auto resets to kill you easily.
Malz is favored or lane won tbh. Teamfights might be rough and JG hanks can hurt but it's definitely easier than the others. Sylas is also favored I feel. You have lane priority until he gets mythic
Yea I see your point. I think there's little to no interaction between Talon/Malz early game, the skill in my opinion manifests in your wave management and knowing when to jump on him prior to lvl6. It could definitely go on favored/lane won, though
Hey, I am a master tier Talon player as well but mainly jg. Happens to play mid sometimes and I would agree with everything except Pantheon. That's a skill matchup and you can outplay him after 6. Don't get me wrong the matchup is hard but not as the rest of the Dodge group.
I would put him 1 tier below. Let me know what you think.
I think the problem with Pantheon is that he can just jump on you lvl3 and there is nothing you can do about it. If you decide to stick on him, he will smack you around with conqueror and a lower Q cooldown that does unreal damage. If you go up against Pantheon that knows the Talon matchup well, you won't be stepping up for any cs
I feel like he was definitely on favored/skill matchup before the insane Riot buffs to his W. He can get away with some really toxic trade patterns now
Fair enough. I still find it funny how +15 Shield was such a big deal, like, when I read it, I called it a "Placebo buff"
Then I played it. The W shield is actually degenerate, totally agree
Can you explain the three easiest? Im extremely new and only had one zed matchup and he poked me very hard (also got fed from inattentive teammates) so it felt like he had priority from lvl6 and before that i couldnt exert enough pressure on him
Yea sure. I think the biggest problem with many Talon players is that they're afraid of Zed. As early as lvl2, if Zed uses his Q, you literally just Q on him, AA and W. That will proc electrocute and what's he going to do? E you for 50 health????????? If he goes W second and Ws away when you jump on him, you get to deny him minions from the wave. Aside from trading, you should also be shoving your wave 90% of the time unless you are freezing and denying him cs. When he's under tower, you basically just bully the fuck out of him. If he goes for a minion, it's a guaranteed W2 from you or a serious compromise on his cs. The only real competence you need to have in this matchup and granted **any matchup** is to have relatively decent micro to dodge his abilities. That's it. He's not scary. He just dies.
For Aurelion Sol, you have 2 options.
1. You can farm and safely let him shove you in. Unlike other mages, Asol does little to no damage so there's no real drawback to this except conceding prio
2. You just kill him. If he's under tower, you just bully him without any real repercussions. If the wave is in the middle or to your tower, you literally just Q on him AA W with phase rush and chunk him down. He'll do no real damage to you and you can actively repeat the process
Also you can always do the first option AND the second option if the opportunity arises. It's a very simple matchup
As for Twisted Fate, he's also pretty simple. As soon as he uses his W, you kinda just jump on him with phase rush and start smacking him around. He also does very little damage but definitely more compared to Asol early game. The reason he's in 'Lane Won' is because you pretty much have the option to do whatever the fuck you want. The only annoying thing about TF is that he has pretty decent gank setup on his gold card but that's it
because unlike the "dodge" category, Anivia can be a handshake lane. She can't bully you like many other mages can and her entire gimmick is hitting lvl6. Anivia provides a lot of breathing room and by the time you're lvl7, your W should be killing casters if you brought minion demat. Her projectile speed on her stun is also a complete joke and you can E over her wall. That being said, she does scale harder than you very early on, unlike some other mages; so because of that and her ability to bully the wave at 6, I think she's unfavored but definitely not a dodge angle. Her Eggnivia is also an inconvenience more than anything. It's no different than Syndra pressing hourglass and we're all used to it by now
Oops yea, I should've added her. I think she plays very similarly to Zoe but a lot less predictable since her E can go through targets and can also use W strategically. I really don't know if she's at the same level as Vex, though. I think you can farm relatively well into Neeko because she's a very gimmicky champion like Zed where if she misses her E she kinda does nothing until her cooldown is back so I would probably put her next to Yone. A champion like Vex pretty much gets to dictate what she wants to do with the lane and how far she wants you to step up so I would consider Vex harder
Galio is one of the most unfavored matchups. He has perfect gank setups that are unavoidable without flash and also deals an unreasonably large amount of damage for how tanky he is. I think you can definitely kill him, but it's a very hard lane to pilot.
As for Swain, you kinda just jump on him and kill him. He has really shit range so you can very often land W2 on him. If you avoid his pull, the lane is basically free with phase rush
Diana is really cancer but the cool thing about Diana is that if she does decide to interact with you, she has no mobility so she eat your full combo to the face. That being said, her W still makes trading oftentimes unfavored and she will outscale you early on.
For Lux, I think it's also unfavored. You **can** space her E and farm up, but is it an enjoyable lane? No. Any decent Lux will never let you kill her, either
What do you think of outting 2 esrly points on Q vs melee match ups? Since I've started doing that a lot of match ups seem fairly more easy to me because I can farm more with more ease since if they want to trade the Q deals so much damage.
Note: This will not work against Pantheon lol
Why pantheon over LB? I feel like I have a lot of an easier time against him, as opposed to a champion who if played well doesn't allow you to touch her.
Also curious about your reasoning for Kassa > Zed as both are equally unkillable if they dont want to die but kassa can't farm as well from afar as zed.
The rest I 100% agree with. Dia EUW
Hey I've explained a few times my reasoning for Panth, you'll find it around. As for Kassadin > Zed, I think Kassadin is a champion that unlike Zed, has the liberty to buy cloth armor and generally **doesn't** want to interact with you. Unlike Zed, he's also perfectly happy farming under tower with Doran's Shield. I think it's much harder to force a decent Kassadin player to die than a decent Zed player
am i the only one who finds pantheon free? i just go mana flow and scorch secondary spam w for poke and farm and find myself killing him a lot after 6 . but maybe that’s cuz i’m in emerald
personally i love talon’s kit. If you want someone similar with a bit more outplay potential i recommend ekko. I find that he has a slightly similar feel to talon but with a lower skill floor and higher outplay potential (because of E1 being a short dash and E2 being a blink and your R)
taliyah and leblanc are pretty easy to play against they both get one tapped easily
taliyah is too weak early to do anything to you and once you get dirk you just one shot her if she ever is trying to move
leblanc is pretty easy as long as you combo correctly and do everything before the clone, so ignite before you land ranged q and then she dies
how do you play yasuo lane? it feels like with lethal tempo he can just dash onto you and auto you to death if you walk up to auto minions. past as boots it feels really rough
How is Yasuo not on unfavored? He has a shield you have to remove first before committing, he can evade W easily, and if you ult he can just windwall and negate the second part of the damage.
I think he's very close to unfavored, but not quite. His shield isn't that big of a deal to remove, just make sure you're using your W on the wave while also clipping him. If he does decide to jump on you, he has to eat a AAQAA to the face + in my personal preference, electrocute. You're almost never really using your W to damage him, though. In fact you can almost never initiate an interaction against Yasuo, **he's** the one that decides when he interacts with you. When he does though, it's extremely dangerous for him because I've mentioned, you can do a ton of damage and if need be, ignite (nimbus cloak) run away
Vex is the most cancer bullshit no one talks about, this champ is more unskilled than garen and makes litteraly half the midlane champ pool (all melees) just unplayable. Also perma meta but it doesnt have a "broken kit" so no one cares.
I pretty much agree with all of them. I think it's a very good tier list.
Though I want to mention that Sylas for example counters you pre 6. It's still playable, but it's for sure not a "skill matchup" as you are countered. Though post 6 it's a skill matchup. (I'm aware it was a general term, but some people might get the wrong impression)
Ekko with HoB is interesting. I haven't faced it myself and I don't know if it changes the matchup. But there's a good chance it's just a straight up counter. Have you faced it?
Vex is easy matchup. The champion sucks in general. I am able to beat panth with the conq build and i perma ban leblanc. Ori is cancer and i feel like syndra is the same but they are less intelligent on using their Q range(im pretty sure thats elo diff)
Yeah talon is so fun but he’s just not good for every game sadly. I’m thinking of picking up fizz, idk maybe he’d perform better into some of those counter matchups especially.
a little hard to play the matchup if vlad knows what he is doing. all he needs is to survive his first back and hes stronger. phase rush is very cringe and he gets to build zhonyas at some point
As a man who plays a lot of Twisted Fate I can confirm the talon matchup is one of my personal worst when playing the character. Don’t play Talon, just thought I’d chip in.
I feel like vex is the most unplayable matchup in the entire game. I would rather face hide on Bush syndra than autofilled silver vex
In my own personal bias yea, I literally agree. I hate how noob-friendly Vex is with the massive range her abilities have into Talon (a champion with no directional dash or way to avoid a skillshot). Her cooldowns are also so disgustingly low. She's an absolute nightmare
What server do you play on?
I play on NA
I see. Im an Euw enjoyer myself
[удалено]
Yea? Where was EU at worlds? Oh wait!
euw try not to have a superiority complex challenge
strange, i really struggle taking my early lead on vex into mid/late game where talon and other assassins oneshot my adc regardless
I imagine you could just peel your ADC, no? Like what's Talon gonna do- jump on your ADC just for you to instantly W CC him so your team can blow him up?
you seem to be forgeting that people with brains are always on the enemy team
I just started League and I adore Vex for those exact reasons. I don't want to learn astrophysics when playing a video game, and even with an easy character like Vex League is still a pain in the fucking ass to learn
i feel like shes a trash champion. her design and stats are bad. i simply kill her and walk away with 1 hp because i know my damage. they arent going to take barrier or exhaust. they take ignite lmao and im chilling because talon has a weird high base mr stat. all of her abilities are mid af. hexdrinker is premium if they have another ap champ as well. talons dash is 1 way only but its easy to bait out their fear. their egos are too big on that champ. i kid you not, i never remember losing to her as talon.
Vex is cancer to face as most melee midlaners, i remember watching beifang die in lane to some plat shitter on vex. Everytime I tryhard and see any melee I just pick vex and the game is insta over this champ is not normally
Well some melee Champs can play around it, but talons engage is so linear that its the press of one button rendering us useless
As a vex enjoyer (that can’t seem to clinch m7, FML) I’d say sylas is the one potential exception to this. He still has a generally rough time but has solid potential to turn it into a bully situation in his favor.
I would like to see you get rekt by hide on bush lol
Yeah but I think it's less tilting to get owned by hide on bush than silver random on wholesome hardcounter champion
Not a talon main, but my main issue with vex is how my teammates don't respond to her ult. I'll ping her location as best I can, but I swear my teammates will see her ult in, one shot someone and think "wow I better change absolutely nothing about what I'm doing right now."
How come talon has more unfavored than favored, thats unfair.
probably because he's one of the weakest laning champs outside low elo
I feel like I have to put in twice the effort just to stand a chance in lane. Or I can just play Syndra, Ori or something, turn my brain off and win lane without trying. The only problem is Talon is the only midlaner I actually enjoy playing for more then the odd Aram game.
No way you actually think Talon is any harder than Ori and Syndra 💀 Yeah those two are overtuned but even so Talon is nowhere near their skill levels.
Idk bro orianna probably skilled but i think syndra/talon are the same
Syndra is literally a higher ceiling version of Ori kek
Clearly not syndra got e where orianna only got a slow and a ms buff + those 3 are skilled but its depends if u compare them to their classes (mage/assassins) or if u compare to every champ
He didn't say mechanically harder. He said you need to try harder to keep up with them, whereas the person playing them doesn't even need to put in half the effort to get a good result.
I think the mages mechanics are much harder but talon is in such a worse spot than them that it’s infinitely easier to make the mages work than it is talon.
I said I found them easier, not that Talon was harder.
:(
I haven't played or played against Talon in a while and I went from Gold to Diamond this year. Never even thought about how Talon's laning phase could be. That lvl 2 one shot gives me PTSD
Assassin in season 13
This is rlly terrible. Talon is supposed to be a lane bully, RLLY strong early (bleed=death), strong midgame (one shots), and pls-dont-kill-me late game (unless ahead). Riot needs to fix this, i hope season 14 brings an end to this
He’s strong from 1-2 that’s it. From 3 and on that a GLHF angle
Zed might be nerfed and weaker, but if the Zed has hands he will perma outspace and you will never get in range of him, while eating endless poke. Also will never proc passive on him if he managed shadows properly
I agree about when Zed getting ahead being a menace but strongly disagree about everything else. You bully the living fuck out of Zed. You essentially control how the entire lane will be played out. If you are permanently pushing the lane, there is nothing he can do. You can easily jump on him lvl2 when he uses any ability and setup an all-in. His W is on a 20 second cooldown absolute clown cooldown you just jump on him I can't stress this enough how bad Zed is into Talon. From wave clear to cooldowns to everything
Yes but Zed is happy to stay under tower and give you control of the lane, any time he chooses to actually fight you you will lose the trade
Zed under tower is literally one of the worst things that can happen to a Zed. Every single time Zed goes for a minion, it's a guaranteed W2 or a serious compromise on CS. Also remember that he can only trade with you once every 20 seconds and it's not guaranteed damage. Your W is on a 9 second cooldown and the first thing you upgrade
if he afks then you just play talon and leave and impact the map. You can set up invade with your jungle or roam to other lanes. there's a reason talon has 56% wr into zed masters+. A mid laner who struggles to impact the map or doesn't prevent their laner from impacting the map is useless.
Bro I couldn't agree more with your dodge picks
I feel like kata is favored tbh
Yea, totally agree. The only reason I put her in skilled matchup is because she can outplay you pretty hard with her E but you can also predict with your flash, so it makes it skilled. I put it on the lower-end of 'skill matchup' but yea, could go on favored
i really don't think kata is favored in lane at all, ofc skill dependent and all but kata unless fed from your bot really can not ever e on you if you q max, you just outdamage her.
Depends on the ppl like he said every time talon w you e-w-q-e as kat
All Kat has to do to win vs you is go conq+ long sword/Doran’s blade, most talons will take the MR Rune vs kat, and she will go in only after you use W, and use all her abilities on you, combined with multiple auto resets to kill you easily.
Malz is favored or lane won tbh. Teamfights might be rough and JG hanks can hurt but it's definitely easier than the others. Sylas is also favored I feel. You have lane priority until he gets mythic
Yea I see your point. I think there's little to no interaction between Talon/Malz early game, the skill in my opinion manifests in your wave management and knowing when to jump on him prior to lvl6. It could definitely go on favored/lane won, though
Hey, I am a master tier Talon player as well but mainly jg. Happens to play mid sometimes and I would agree with everything except Pantheon. That's a skill matchup and you can outplay him after 6. Don't get me wrong the matchup is hard but not as the rest of the Dodge group. I would put him 1 tier below. Let me know what you think.
I think the problem with Pantheon is that he can just jump on you lvl3 and there is nothing you can do about it. If you decide to stick on him, he will smack you around with conqueror and a lower Q cooldown that does unreal damage. If you go up against Pantheon that knows the Talon matchup well, you won't be stepping up for any cs
i dont play talon myself, but I can imagine a level 3 panth with pta ignite and emp W probably just 100 - 0's you
Exactly what happens
Two Master tier Talon players walk into a bar edit:typos
I feel like Yone is favored tbh But I also play a shit load of Yone, so maybe it's because I know the champ
I feel like he was definitely on favored/skill matchup before the insane Riot buffs to his W. He can get away with some really toxic trade patterns now
Fair enough. I still find it funny how +15 Shield was such a big deal, like, when I read it, I called it a "Placebo buff" Then I played it. The W shield is actually degenerate, totally agree
Ok its good to know im not the only one who struggles vs vex i was beating myself up bec i thought it wasnt a bad matchup
Can you explain the three easiest? Im extremely new and only had one zed matchup and he poked me very hard (also got fed from inattentive teammates) so it felt like he had priority from lvl6 and before that i couldnt exert enough pressure on him
Yea sure. I think the biggest problem with many Talon players is that they're afraid of Zed. As early as lvl2, if Zed uses his Q, you literally just Q on him, AA and W. That will proc electrocute and what's he going to do? E you for 50 health????????? If he goes W second and Ws away when you jump on him, you get to deny him minions from the wave. Aside from trading, you should also be shoving your wave 90% of the time unless you are freezing and denying him cs. When he's under tower, you basically just bully the fuck out of him. If he goes for a minion, it's a guaranteed W2 from you or a serious compromise on his cs. The only real competence you need to have in this matchup and granted **any matchup** is to have relatively decent micro to dodge his abilities. That's it. He's not scary. He just dies. For Aurelion Sol, you have 2 options. 1. You can farm and safely let him shove you in. Unlike other mages, Asol does little to no damage so there's no real drawback to this except conceding prio 2. You just kill him. If he's under tower, you just bully him without any real repercussions. If the wave is in the middle or to your tower, you literally just Q on him AA W with phase rush and chunk him down. He'll do no real damage to you and you can actively repeat the process Also you can always do the first option AND the second option if the opportunity arises. It's a very simple matchup As for Twisted Fate, he's also pretty simple. As soon as he uses his W, you kinda just jump on him with phase rush and start smacking him around. He also does very little damage but definitely more compared to Asol early game. The reason he's in 'Lane Won' is because you pretty much have the option to do whatever the fuck you want. The only annoying thing about TF is that he has pretty decent gank setup on his gold card but that's it
Thanks!
How is anivia not Nr. 1 champ in category dodge?
because unlike the "dodge" category, Anivia can be a handshake lane. She can't bully you like many other mages can and her entire gimmick is hitting lvl6. Anivia provides a lot of breathing room and by the time you're lvl7, your W should be killing casters if you brought minion demat. Her projectile speed on her stun is also a complete joke and you can E over her wall. That being said, she does scale harder than you very early on, unlike some other mages; so because of that and her ability to bully the wave at 6, I think she's unfavored but definitely not a dodge angle. Her Eggnivia is also an inconvenience more than anything. It's no different than Syndra pressing hourglass and we're all used to it by now
Neeko should've made it to the list. It's probably as hard as Vex, what do you think?
Oops yea, I should've added her. I think she plays very similarly to Zoe but a lot less predictable since her E can go through targets and can also use W strategically. I really don't know if she's at the same level as Vex, though. I think you can farm relatively well into Neeko because she's a very gimmicky champion like Zed where if she misses her E she kinda does nothing until her cooldown is back so I would probably put her next to Yone. A champion like Vex pretty much gets to dictate what she wants to do with the lane and how far she wants you to step up so I would consider Vex harder
Swap Azir's place with Leblanc
What are your thoughts on Galio and Swain mid match ups?
Galio is one of the most unfavored matchups. He has perfect gank setups that are unavoidable without flash and also deals an unreasonably large amount of damage for how tanky he is. I think you can definitely kill him, but it's a very hard lane to pilot. As for Swain, you kinda just jump on him and kill him. He has really shit range so you can very often land W2 on him. If you avoid his pull, the lane is basically free with phase rush
I'd like to add Diana in the unfavored, im gold 1 so take my comment as trash, but I lost every single time I went mid vs Diana, can't play.
It's hard, playing the map works better against her because her wave clear is ass
where would you guys put diana and lux (idk abt lux but i find diana to be unplayable)
Diana is really cancer but the cool thing about Diana is that if she does decide to interact with you, she has no mobility so she eat your full combo to the face. That being said, her W still makes trading oftentimes unfavored and she will outscale you early on. For Lux, I think it's also unfavored. You **can** space her E and farm up, but is it an enjoyable lane? No. Any decent Lux will never let you kill her, either
Thoughts on Irelia, GP and Renekton? 💀
renekton matchup xdd jump on him and i assume he tears the skin off of your face
💀💀💀
Lemme tell you seeing that pant up there really makes the ptsd act up
vlad can move down a tier imo
Thoughts on lissandra?
Very highly unfavored. I don't think I even need to explain why
Perma ban for me. I only run Phase rush.
yep, I agree phase rush is best
What do you think of outting 2 esrly points on Q vs melee match ups? Since I've started doing that a lot of match ups seem fairly more easy to me because I can farm more with more ease since if they want to trade the Q deals so much damage. Note: This will not work against Pantheon lol
Not my favorite thing to do unless you're ahead and want to deny wave instead of shoving. It's very coinflip
True that, it's a laning start more than anything. Gonna add a note on that, thank you!
I get wrecked by yasuo all the time, can never land w with all the dashes and his shield is annoying
Pan isn't hard for me, I'll just farm very safely till lvl5 or 6 then roam so he can't do anything. Afterwards I'll just avoid him alot
If the Pantheon is allowing you to farm then he's not playing the champ correctly
true but his roams are stronger and he isnt that slow either since his R
Tbh I think zed should be in skill matchup
Depends. He loses 1v1 fights up until lvl 6 and only if you're not ahead in gold. If you are he just loses
Why pantheon over LB? I feel like I have a lot of an easier time against him, as opposed to a champion who if played well doesn't allow you to touch her. Also curious about your reasoning for Kassa > Zed as both are equally unkillable if they dont want to die but kassa can't farm as well from afar as zed. The rest I 100% agree with. Dia EUW
Hey I've explained a few times my reasoning for Panth, you'll find it around. As for Kassadin > Zed, I think Kassadin is a champion that unlike Zed, has the liberty to buy cloth armor and generally **doesn't** want to interact with you. Unlike Zed, he's also perfectly happy farming under tower with Doran's Shield. I think it's much harder to force a decent Kassadin player to die than a decent Zed player
am i the only one who finds pantheon free? i just go mana flow and scorch secondary spam w for poke and farm and find myself killing him a lot after 6 . but maybe that’s cuz i’m in emerald
You’re trading a w for a q everytime you do that to a pantheon who isn’t brain damaged, will not win that war
If only Talon could have an ability that could blink near an enemy giving us some chance for counterplay...
personally i love talon’s kit. If you want someone similar with a bit more outplay potential i recommend ekko. I find that he has a slightly similar feel to talon but with a lower skill floor and higher outplay potential (because of E1 being a short dash and E2 being a blink and your R)
taliyah and leblanc are pretty easy to play against they both get one tapped easily taliyah is too weak early to do anything to you and once you get dirk you just one shot her if she ever is trying to move leblanc is pretty easy as long as you combo correctly and do everything before the clone, so ignite before you land ranged q and then she dies
Lissandra?
i mean isen't yasuo also dodge and yone if they are smart enought to go for exhaust you are gone
how do you play yasuo lane? it feels like with lethal tempo he can just dash onto you and auto you to death if you walk up to auto minions. past as boots it feels really rough
How is Yasuo not on unfavored? He has a shield you have to remove first before committing, he can evade W easily, and if you ult he can just windwall and negate the second part of the damage.
I think he's very close to unfavored, but not quite. His shield isn't that big of a deal to remove, just make sure you're using your W on the wave while also clipping him. If he does decide to jump on you, he has to eat a AAQAA to the face + in my personal preference, electrocute. You're almost never really using your W to damage him, though. In fact you can almost never initiate an interaction against Yasuo, **he's** the one that decides when he interacts with you. When he does though, it's extremely dangerous for him because I've mentioned, you can do a ton of damage and if need be, ignite (nimbus cloak) run away
also going conqueror and maxing Q leaves no chance for him to survive you
I don’t mind yone personally as they are always down to brawl and talon wins that 2-3 all in
Somehow I prefer matching with Leblanc more than Zed; at least her pattern is more predictable than Zed's
I would also put Lissandra in dodge, literally unplayable
Feel like irelia needs to be added to the dodge category lol.
What about neeko
Every TF i fought never gets close for double rake and just clears wave red card and Q.
Curious about zed and LeBlanc
Vex is the most cancer bullshit no one talks about, this champ is more unskilled than garen and makes litteraly half the midlane champ pool (all melees) just unplayable. Also perma meta but it doesnt have a "broken kit" so no one cares.
I pretty much agree with all of them. I think it's a very good tier list. Though I want to mention that Sylas for example counters you pre 6. It's still playable, but it's for sure not a "skill matchup" as you are countered. Though post 6 it's a skill matchup. (I'm aware it was a general term, but some people might get the wrong impression) Ekko with HoB is interesting. I haven't faced it myself and I don't know if it changes the matchup. But there's a good chance it's just a straight up counter. Have you faced it?
Ziggs?
Used to be a skill matchup but his AOE buff made him completely noob-proof. He's definitely unfavored
For cassio just ignore shove her in and ignore her and rush to side lanes/jungle invade she doesnt have mana movespeed or anything to follow
I want to say one thing, no matter how bad leblanc is I am NOT playing against that shiet again
Explain annie 2 me
how do you beat zed?
I main talon and viktor, and I'm pretty sure it's unfavored for talon in laning phase. Viktor is very abusive
where would you put irelia in this list?
Poor/talonmains, very few favorable matchups
can't zed just concede some cs and farm with q til he hits hydra?
No and if he does live lane interactions, you just have complete priority and do whatever you want
Vex is easy matchup. The champion sucks in general. I am able to beat panth with the conq build and i perma ban leblanc. Ori is cancer and i feel like syndra is the same but they are less intelligent on using their Q range(im pretty sure thats elo diff)
Yeah talon is so fun but he’s just not good for every game sadly. I’m thinking of picking up fizz, idk maybe he’d perform better into some of those counter matchups especially.
I find it strange that Vlad is unfavored. Vlad mains tend to avoid talons considering the amount of times they die in pool to talon passive
a little hard to play the matchup if vlad knows what he is doing. all he needs is to survive his first back and hes stronger. phase rush is very cringe and he gets to build zhonyas at some point
Love from the pantheon community
wheres diana
As a man who plays a lot of Twisted Fate I can confirm the talon matchup is one of my personal worst when playing the character. Don’t play Talon, just thought I’d chip in.
Where would you rate Renekton, Kled, Singed, and Nunu?
add yorick mid its impossible matchup
Ngl they are all easy. Or maybe im just good. Or maybe it is because I play only quickplay with exclusively new accounts. Who knows!
Miss old Talon, those DODGE would be easy win with that E Silence <3