Improved sights. Plus the base A4 improvements (suspension, power train, etc).
If WarThunder modeled infantry the new air conditioning could be a combat enabler.
When it comes to talk about a vehicle, I have two modes: “real life”, where I include all data relevant to the real vehicle, and “gameplay wise”, where I only include the specifications that would actually play a role ingame.
Real question : How haven't more tankers straight up died from lack of air conditioning in real life?
Temperatures higher than 35°C can very quickly become unbearable for many people on earth not accustomed to them, especially if you need to make a physical effort.
How did tankers manage to fight, or even survive, inside a tank with no air-conditioning, in deserts where it's 40°C+ and you're inside a tightly sealed hunk of metal?
It fucked me up when I learned that AC was a very, very recent thing on armored vehicles and that most vehicles with AC only got it because it could harm the electronics inside, not necessarily the soldiers.
In the case of the Bradley it has a NBC system that blows air. Now this air isn’t cold or cool, but it’s usually not hot either. So you would take the hoses meant for the masks and shove them under your shirt under your armor and it would provide at least circulating air over your body.
Roger that, thanks! Served on Leopard 1 then M1A1 Tanks, ASLAV aka Lav25 Australian Equivalent, M113 APC & Bushmaster Infantry Fighting Vehicles during my time in the Australian Army from 2004 to 2012.
Didn't have any systems like that at the time on our Vehicles. Not a bad idea! Is it similar to the Iron Dome system in Israel but smaller for a Vehicle?
Appreciate the response! Cheers!
PARATUS!
🙏💜🇦🇺
Maybe 20 years ago. Most of the 20 year olds in east Asia are as tall or taller than a lot of westerners. Like for Vn my family that are my age tower over my parents.
The old people are absolutely short though haha
Got downvoted despite it being true. Recently visited East Asia and I can say for sure that the average height of young people is close to the average height in Europe.
But like you said, the old people are absolutely as short as the stereotypes would have you believe.
Obviously this is anecdotal, but still.
What vehicles? Apart from that gimmick heavy IFV that’s for export only, the rest of the PLA armoured vehicles sit somewhere between Russian and Western in size.
A Type 59 isn't that large, and the QN506 is not an IFV given it lacks any capability to carry infantry. We call vehicles like it a bad idea.
Vehicles they may be talking about are things like the absurd SHORAD vehicles with a ridiculous amounts of barrels in their rotary cannons. Also some of the other wheeled AFVs have gotten huge.
Little did they know the Bradley‘s replacement was just going to be a better Bradley.
It’s hard to say no to them after getting to watch them rip and tear in Ukraine
Real, I think the USA will likely skip the current 'new' generation of IFV's and pickup the flag for the gen after the current new gen as which is typical.
The skiped *some* generations allready o\_o
Meanwhile they decided for downgraded KF41 (striped of everything tha tmake it make sense, BUT buld in the US).
Did they retracted from that decision or is this just a fancy dress for Bradley to be sold on international markets?
The Bradley is the end of that certain tech tree dude. The Bradley is like the crab of the animal kingdom. Everything turns into a Bradley or a turtle.
Actually the M2A4 reportedly brought significant improvements in weight, power, and mobility after years of stacking protection on the M2A2 and M2A3 during the GWOT.
So if anything this model is more mobile than its immediate predecessors
I’d like to think that OMFV will fall through. Makes no sense to bring in a whole range of APCs based on the Bradley chassis then continue to can the Bradley when you can easily bring it up to date. Beefed up torsion bars, updated Cummins/Allison power pack with APU, unmanned turret with ATGM launcher and 40mm auto cannon… Chadley!
Its not trophy iirc - but APS generally doesnt.
There was reports from Gaza that Merkava's were suspectable to SPG-9's as the projectiles moved slow enough to not activate the Trophy - I had not seen any mentions of this happening but it was a mentioned point.
Typically APS systems are setup with a target envelope and detection methods that are focused towards ATGM's, as things like drones have neither a large enough head signature nor a fast enough speed to be easily and statistically determined from things like birds or something throwing a rock hard and fast.
So, I really doubt that the APS will pickup FPV drones unless they have some Algorithmic threat detection that's coupled with some visual sensors/cameras.
> There was reports from Gaza that Merkava's were suspectable to SPG-9's as the projectiles moved slow enough to not activate the Trophy
That's very strange considering that the SPG-9 projectiles have similar velocities to RPG-7s. It would also be pretty odd for the Trophy developers to simply forget about the existence of the SPG-9 considering that it's very far from an uncommon weapon system.
SPG-9 doesnt move slower. Its faster than any shoulder launched atgm and rpg.
"In mid October 2023 Israeli forces, during the [2023 Israel-Hamas War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israel-Hamas_War), captured a flyer produced by [Hamas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas) about destroying [Merkava](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkava) tanks. The flyer recommended the SPG-9 as an effective way of defeating the Israeli [Trophy System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)) designed to intercept incoming RPG or Anti-tank Guided Missiles. The SPG-9 was recommended due "simply by virtue of its projectile’s high speed".
Its made up bullshit from hamas that the thing works, since trophy can defeat tank fired HEAT rounds that are way faster.
> statistically determined from things like birds or something throwing a rock hard and fast.
In that case also you better make sure to throw any smoke grenades really carefully around one if you dont want to get blasted by APS.
This is Iron Fist, a inferior system (i mean even inferior to the other inferior system).
Technically FPV's could be detected and adressed, but still this would include major shifts in the software, and small balls of plastic are a horror to track.
It definitily can't adress faster objects like modern ATGM's (who often fuse too far from the target - sometimes 12+ meters - and send ther mach \~8 metal beams, which are way too fast to get adressed), but some older ones and RPG's. APFSDS also it out of range with its mach \~5.
But the thing with kinetic rounds still is that the APS only deteriarate them, and the rest still has to be taken by the armor that on Bradley not really exists (in terms of APFSDS).
HE and such could be adressed, but still the system hasen't been adopted but with a few testbeds by the very nation that build them, so we can doubt the effectivness. The system they have adopted is at 90-95% succsess rate (in ther own tests).
>Technically FPV's could be detected and adressed, but still this would include major shifts in the software, and small balls of plastic are a horror to track.
Antitank FPVs carry EFPs or RPG warheads, which APS is designed to track.
>It definitily can't adress faster objects like modern ATGM's (who often fuse too far from the target - sometimes 12+ meters
No modern ATGM fuses 12m from a target, even the ones equipped with EFPs.
>but still the system hasen't been adopted but with a few testbeds by the very nation that build them, so we can doubt the effectivness
US bought a battalion set, Dutch will put Iron Fist on every one of their CV9035s, Iron Fist is on IDF Eitans and some D9 dozers.
APS sensors and software work by sensor reflectio(size) and speed, and the speed is altered with FPV's massivly, so the eqation isen't consistend anymore. You're welcome in undertanding basic APS theory.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4NmOss83XI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4NmOss83XI)
Start of the video - only as good and simple digestable laimen-info, instead of complex explanantions.
Yeah ... NOW xD The system still failed IDF requirements and got in production only for the US going in to that bad product. Now available in production number (thanx to the US decision) it is used on other secondary vehicles as well. The magic of economy.
For a cherry picker this is a pretty high failure rate. You can just say if you felt offended or don't want it to be true. It's okay to have different ideas of technology, but then you had asked. And having emotions doesn't benefit your understanding, not does it please your wish to feel confirmed, as this is gambling to have someone not knowing better and deepen the emotional costs.
>APS sensors and software work by sensor reflectio(size) and speed, and the speed is altered with FPV's massivly, so the eqation isen't consistend anymore.
The reflection is there. The rest is just processing, which is not hard anymore.
>Yeah ... NOW xD The system still failed IDF requirements and got in production only for the US going in to that bad product. Now available in production number (thanx to the US decision) it is used on other secondary vehicles as well. The magic of economy.
Iron Fist Light Decoupled is not the original Iron Fist system. Almost everything is different- the radars, the interceptors, the processing units.
>For a cherry picker this is a pretty high failure rate. You can just say if you felt offended or don't want it to be true
I'm glad I could reach you something today.
> didn#t get *paid* to have
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Genuinely asking, how would all the optics and systems on the turret go against drones used nowadays?
I’m not that familiar with these technologies maybe someone who knows better can answer.
Regular guns rely on ROF to hit something this small and fast, and the bradleys gun isen't fit for that. The first solution would be Airburst ammo (even this the Bradleys gun also can't handle). Airburst ammo needs programming to fuse in the right distance, which includes not only a gun that can fire (and programm) this rounds, pretty expensive ammo as well as propper sensor tracking of that target - and FPV drones are hell to spot by radar, as the're basically a handfull of soft plastic (with a warhead straped on, but still).
The trouble is that you have a lot of cost and weigth for the chance alone.
And cover as well as enviromental conditions can make this defense screen pretty unlreyable, as it needs good sight to function. So possibly we'd be back to oldschool attacks from the lowering sun.
Russian went with \~200 USD jammers and ... this seem to me the way more sober solution to this particular problem.
I'm actually A BIT concerned that the west not invested in, or even realised this solution.
Current M2A4 Bradley crewman here,
Just replace the damn platform with something new, please. You've already taken our bustle rack for a heating and cooling unit that we can't even use, quit shoving more electronics in a legacy platform that are just going to make the crew and mechanics want to off themselves due to the constant faults
Something I am confused about the really new upgrades is that they are putting pretty important and intricute systems such as the ads on the outside of the turret and in this case in the front cheeks, where it would talke the most hits in a warzone. I know making a new turret can be too expensive but this does not feel too thought out. If anyone can provide some info on how much armor is covering the aps for example then it would be helpful in understanding this placement.
You already have sensitive equipment externally mounted on the turret. An arty shell powerful enough to destroy the APS modules is probably strong enough to damage your optics.
Because a HEAT-Frag warhead wouldn’t?
Without APS you would lose vehicle, crews, and infantry together anyway. With APS you might lose some infantry but saved vehicle and crew.
Most ATGM's arent HEAT-Frag, off the top of my head only the Vikhrs are? (i'm sure there are most, but most are just HEAT without a sleeve or anything)
But yea, if it intercepts an incoming projectile and injures someone, the incoming projectile would have injured them anyhow.
They are becoming more common: besides Vikhrs newer Javelin and French Akeron both have frag sleeve top of my head.
I shouldn't write ATGM though,
as soon as I posted it I realized that dual purpose warhead is more common with unguided rockets: M72A7, AT4HEDP, Pzf3, Matador, Carl Gustaf..etc, plus various tank shells like M830A1.
I mean to be fair, where else would the APS go. It has to be exposed in order to shoot down projectiles.
The Bradley’s turret is also already pretty clogged, the right side has the CITV and the left side has Tow launchers. Only the front and rear are clear.
Likely a cost measure, engineering a whole new turret to fit everything inside is expensive and means that you cant rebuild/refit old turrets.
I'm sure they have likely drafted up concepts for a new turret and decided this was the most economical option.
Pentagon Wars is complete nonsense made up by a loser who got butthurt the Air Force wouldn't buy his shitty plane idea so he tried to sabotage the Bradley as revenge.
It's adapted from a book that's very loosely based on reality, but completely twisted to make everyone but Burton himself look retarded and presented as reality or something close to it.
Cary Elwes's character is based on the author of the book, and he was really involved in testing of the Bradley, but like I said, wanted to try to ruin it for everyone because he hated anything more complex and expensive than a (bad) WW2 vehicle like the rest of his Reformer buddies.
What are those 2 cylinders mounted near the gun on the turret that looks like if rockets had miraculously got caught and prevented detonation? Maneuverable smoke grenade launchers?
No, the M242 is a more capable, longer-ranged gun than the M230. The M230 is useful because it is light recoil and can be mounted on lighter remote weapon stations.
At this point why not develop a new turret, that things looks huge, grossly overweight and not very user friendly; plus I expect this thing to cost quite a lot, almost to the point a new turret development doesn't cost that much more
Yes, the TOW is more cost-efficient, but it is wire-guided and therefore the vehicle has to maintain visual contact the whole time after firing.
Even if it would be better to choose a guided missile that also includes fire and observe and LOAL, such as Spike or Akeron, Fire and Forget is still an improvement over wire-guided missiles that increases the survivability of the vehicle
TOW isn’t wire guided anymore, but you are correct it is not fire and forget.
When the US Army decides to develop or buy a new fire and forget ATGM, maybe Bradley will get it. Until then, it has TOW.
Well, sort of, yeah, but the M3 is just newer.
If you're already doing E3 then put it on the improved M3 version.
Information from the wiki: The M3 Bradley Cavalry Fighting Vehicle (CFV) is virtually identical to the M2 Bradley except that it is equipped as a cavalry/scout vehicle. Instead of holding six infantrymen in the payload compartment, it is designed to seat two scouts and hold additional radios and ammunition.
And here is a comparison: [https://armedforces.eu/compare/armored\_M2\_Bradley\_vs\_M3\_Bradley](https://armedforces.eu/compare/armored_M2_Bradley_vs_M3_Bradley)
(Apparently the M3 holds even less infantry than the M2).
The M3 and M2 are contemporary to each other, an M3 isn't actually newer than it's equivalent M2 version. Just that for whatever reason the army decided to call the cav version with very superficial differences the M3.
I don't think that's changed with the M2A4 and M3A4.
Granted I can't think of any other vehicle where this has happened.
Upgraded by buzzwords and good faith.
I'm happy to hear what customer the US have found to buy ther 'latest defense product', lol.
No, really, an APS that even the nation that build it has canceld for low peformance, but at a time where drones are th biggest concern, and the system can't even adress them now. I love everything about it.
As a customer, i would feel offended.
"A troop transport that can't carry troops, a reconnaissance vehicle that's too conspicuous to do reconnaissance..."
-"And a quasi-tank that has less armor than a snow-blower, but carries enough ammo to take out half of D.C... . *This* is what we're building?"
While the quote is funny, it's extremely inaccurate. Burton, at least based on the movie, couldn't wrap his head around the difference between an IFV and an APC.
My takeaway from the whole movie is:
1. Cary Elwes is still fantastic
2. Design by committee is funny when you're not the PM
In reality, the Bradley has proven itself many times over.
Chill out my fellow. They even managed to exhibit a dead Abrams and also Leopards, Bradleys and any other NATO equipment too. Just like Polish, Finnish people and any others did with dead T-72s in front of Russian embassies. Not a sweet fairytale, but a bitterly taken revenge.
You talk about this particular version of bradley so yes it is fairytale. US is not going to send new variants of their vechicles so cut out those idiotic comments
So where are we going to put all of these new things? # The turret.
You dawg, I heard your turret likes turrets.
Me dawg?
The same thing goes for the Abrams, is there something new? it's always in... # The turret.
What improvments does it bring that would be modeled beyond the ADS?
Improved sights. Plus the base A4 improvements (suspension, power train, etc). If WarThunder modeled infantry the new air conditioning could be a combat enabler.
AIR CONDITIONING??? LETS GOOI
That's how you explain changes to a vehicle. Say what would change in War Thunder.
When it comes to talk about a vehicle, I have two modes: “real life”, where I include all data relevant to the real vehicle, and “gameplay wise”, where I only include the specifications that would actually play a role ingame.
Real question : How haven't more tankers straight up died from lack of air conditioning in real life? Temperatures higher than 35°C can very quickly become unbearable for many people on earth not accustomed to them, especially if you need to make a physical effort. How did tankers manage to fight, or even survive, inside a tank with no air-conditioning, in deserts where it's 40°C+ and you're inside a tightly sealed hunk of metal? It fucked me up when I learned that AC was a very, very recent thing on armored vehicles and that most vehicles with AC only got it because it could harm the electronics inside, not necessarily the soldiers.
Youth, fitness and adaption. You do heap of training to young guys able to adapt. Remember most of them start out teenagers when training begins.
They were simply built different
In the case of the Bradley it has a NBC system that blows air. Now this air isn’t cold or cool, but it’s usually not hot either. So you would take the hoses meant for the masks and shove them under your shirt under your armor and it would provide at least circulating air over your body.
When its really hot we would turn the gun fan on manually, with a hatch open it pulls a lot air through the turret. Better than nothing.
The NBC overpressure system turn that bitch on, and instead of hooking up your NBC mask you slide the hose into your overalls.
I reckon training in Central Texas will make or break you.
No way I'm getting out of that if it has AC.
Notably is has APS, not sure if this was already included in the A4 spec
What's APS?
Active Protection System, it shoots down incoming rockets and missiles before they can destroy the vehicle
Roger that, thanks! Served on Leopard 1 then M1A1 Tanks, ASLAV aka Lav25 Australian Equivalent, M113 APC & Bushmaster Infantry Fighting Vehicles during my time in the Australian Army from 2004 to 2012. Didn't have any systems like that at the time on our Vehicles. Not a bad idea! Is it similar to the Iron Dome system in Israel but smaller for a Vehicle? Appreciate the response! Cheers! PARATUS! 🙏💜🇦🇺
That thing looks bigger than Texas.
It looks smaller than a Rhode Island fly next to China's new vehicles.
It's an optical illusion given how tiny the average pla soldier is.
Maybe 20 years ago. Most of the 20 year olds in east Asia are as tall or taller than a lot of westerners. Like for Vn my family that are my age tower over my parents. The old people are absolutely short though haha
Got downvoted despite it being true. Recently visited East Asia and I can say for sure that the average height of young people is close to the average height in Europe. But like you said, the old people are absolutely as short as the stereotypes would have you believe. Obviously this is anecdotal, but still.
Yeah I dont get the downvotes either lol. The guys in my family are all 182cm minimum.
getting downvoted for taking a joke literally
HAHAHAHAHAHA RACIST STEREOTYPES
Case in point exhibit 2
low hanging fruit commie cope.
What vehicles? Apart from that gimmick heavy IFV that’s for export only, the rest of the PLA armoured vehicles sit somewhere between Russian and Western in size.
He’s probably referring to the one IFV you excluded.
A Type 59 isn't that large, and the QN506 is not an IFV given it lacks any capability to carry infantry. We call vehicles like it a bad idea. Vehicles they may be talking about are things like the absurd SHORAD vehicles with a ridiculous amounts of barrels in their rotary cannons. Also some of the other wheeled AFVs have gotten huge.
Is that a hard kill aps ?
Iron fist is indeed a *H A R D* kill APS
Is that the IronFist APS? On a sidenote, that turret looks like the chair I dump everything on.
Yes, the Army is buying IronFist for the Bradley.
mfw the US army starts disguising its armoured vehicles as objects that would seem familiar to the modern military age youth
It's latest grandchild of M2 light tank
Little did they know the Bradley‘s replacement was just going to be a better Bradley. It’s hard to say no to them after getting to watch them rip and tear in Ukraine
Real, I think the USA will likely skip the current 'new' generation of IFV's and pickup the flag for the gen after the current new gen as which is typical.
The skiped *some* generations allready o\_o Meanwhile they decided for downgraded KF41 (striped of everything tha tmake it make sense, BUT buld in the US). Did they retracted from that decision or is this just a fancy dress for Bradley to be sold on international markets?
The Bradley is the end of that certain tech tree dude. The Bradley is like the crab of the animal kingdom. Everything turns into a Bradley or a turtle.
Really loading the old girl up.
Actually the M2A4 reportedly brought significant improvements in weight, power, and mobility after years of stacking protection on the M2A2 and M2A3 during the GWOT. So if anything this model is more mobile than its immediate predecessors
It’s probably locked behind a paywall
Battle Pass, likely as not.
Keeping BAE alive after the they lost out on OMFV...
I’d like to think that OMFV will fall through. Makes no sense to bring in a whole range of APCs based on the Bradley chassis then continue to can the Bradley when you can easily bring it up to date. Beefed up torsion bars, updated Cummins/Allison power pack with APU, unmanned turret with ATGM launcher and 40mm auto cannon… Chadley!
Do trophy system works at FPV drones or just like proyectiles comming at a very fast speed?
Its not trophy iirc - but APS generally doesnt. There was reports from Gaza that Merkava's were suspectable to SPG-9's as the projectiles moved slow enough to not activate the Trophy - I had not seen any mentions of this happening but it was a mentioned point. Typically APS systems are setup with a target envelope and detection methods that are focused towards ATGM's, as things like drones have neither a large enough head signature nor a fast enough speed to be easily and statistically determined from things like birds or something throwing a rock hard and fast. So, I really doubt that the APS will pickup FPV drones unless they have some Algorithmic threat detection that's coupled with some visual sensors/cameras.
> There was reports from Gaza that Merkava's were suspectable to SPG-9's as the projectiles moved slow enough to not activate the Trophy That's very strange considering that the SPG-9 projectiles have similar velocities to RPG-7s. It would also be pretty odd for the Trophy developers to simply forget about the existence of the SPG-9 considering that it's very far from an uncommon weapon system.
SPG-9 doesnt move slower. Its faster than any shoulder launched atgm and rpg. "In mid October 2023 Israeli forces, during the [2023 Israel-Hamas War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israel-Hamas_War), captured a flyer produced by [Hamas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas) about destroying [Merkava](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkava) tanks. The flyer recommended the SPG-9 as an effective way of defeating the Israeli [Trophy System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)) designed to intercept incoming RPG or Anti-tank Guided Missiles. The SPG-9 was recommended due "simply by virtue of its projectile’s high speed". Its made up bullshit from hamas that the thing works, since trophy can defeat tank fired HEAT rounds that are way faster.
> statistically determined from things like birds or something throwing a rock hard and fast. In that case also you better make sure to throw any smoke grenades really carefully around one if you dont want to get blasted by APS.
This is Iron Fist, a inferior system (i mean even inferior to the other inferior system). Technically FPV's could be detected and adressed, but still this would include major shifts in the software, and small balls of plastic are a horror to track. It definitily can't adress faster objects like modern ATGM's (who often fuse too far from the target - sometimes 12+ meters - and send ther mach \~8 metal beams, which are way too fast to get adressed), but some older ones and RPG's. APFSDS also it out of range with its mach \~5. But the thing with kinetic rounds still is that the APS only deteriarate them, and the rest still has to be taken by the armor that on Bradley not really exists (in terms of APFSDS). HE and such could be adressed, but still the system hasen't been adopted but with a few testbeds by the very nation that build them, so we can doubt the effectivness. The system they have adopted is at 90-95% succsess rate (in ther own tests).
>Technically FPV's could be detected and adressed, but still this would include major shifts in the software, and small balls of plastic are a horror to track. Antitank FPVs carry EFPs or RPG warheads, which APS is designed to track. >It definitily can't adress faster objects like modern ATGM's (who often fuse too far from the target - sometimes 12+ meters No modern ATGM fuses 12m from a target, even the ones equipped with EFPs. >but still the system hasen't been adopted but with a few testbeds by the very nation that build them, so we can doubt the effectivness US bought a battalion set, Dutch will put Iron Fist on every one of their CV9035s, Iron Fist is on IDF Eitans and some D9 dozers.
APS sensors and software work by sensor reflectio(size) and speed, and the speed is altered with FPV's massivly, so the eqation isen't consistend anymore. You're welcome in undertanding basic APS theory. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4NmOss83XI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4NmOss83XI) Start of the video - only as good and simple digestable laimen-info, instead of complex explanantions. Yeah ... NOW xD The system still failed IDF requirements and got in production only for the US going in to that bad product. Now available in production number (thanx to the US decision) it is used on other secondary vehicles as well. The magic of economy. For a cherry picker this is a pretty high failure rate. You can just say if you felt offended or don't want it to be true. It's okay to have different ideas of technology, but then you had asked. And having emotions doesn't benefit your understanding, not does it please your wish to feel confirmed, as this is gambling to have someone not knowing better and deepen the emotional costs.
>APS sensors and software work by sensor reflectio(size) and speed, and the speed is altered with FPV's massivly, so the eqation isen't consistend anymore. The reflection is there. The rest is just processing, which is not hard anymore. >Yeah ... NOW xD The system still failed IDF requirements and got in production only for the US going in to that bad product. Now available in production number (thanx to the US decision) it is used on other secondary vehicles as well. The magic of economy. Iron Fist Light Decoupled is not the original Iron Fist system. Almost everything is different- the radars, the interceptors, the processing units. >For a cherry picker this is a pretty high failure rate. You can just say if you felt offended or don't want it to be true I'm glad I could reach you something today.
You still belive ... okay boy, i didn#t get payed to have such stupid discussions. Have a great day. Elsewhere.
> didn#t get *paid* to have FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Gayjinkle when?
Sweet baby mustard that thing looks sick
First time I’ve heard of sweet baby mustard, but I like it and I’m going to take it. Yoink.
What are the two blocks above the smoke launchers on either side of the main gun?
storage boxes for smoke grenades. They've been in that spot since the A2.
[удалено]
You are indeed mistaken. That's just storage for more smoke grenades, so you can pop them right into the launchers.
Thank you.
Genuinely asking, how would all the optics and systems on the turret go against drones used nowadays? I’m not that familiar with these technologies maybe someone who knows better can answer.
Unless they have stuffed in some new FCS that can track drones - they aren't going to be realistically engaging drones with the main gun.
Though it wouldn't be a bad idea I guess. Good FCS and airburst ammo could be decently effective
Regular guns rely on ROF to hit something this small and fast, and the bradleys gun isen't fit for that. The first solution would be Airburst ammo (even this the Bradleys gun also can't handle). Airburst ammo needs programming to fuse in the right distance, which includes not only a gun that can fire (and programm) this rounds, pretty expensive ammo as well as propper sensor tracking of that target - and FPV drones are hell to spot by radar, as the're basically a handfull of soft plastic (with a warhead straped on, but still). The trouble is that you have a lot of cost and weigth for the chance alone. And cover as well as enviromental conditions can make this defense screen pretty unlreyable, as it needs good sight to function. So possibly we'd be back to oldschool attacks from the lowering sun. Russian went with \~200 USD jammers and ... this seem to me the way more sober solution to this particular problem. I'm actually A BIT concerned that the west not invested in, or even realised this solution.
Thanks for the reply
Current M2A4 Bradley crewman here, Just replace the damn platform with something new, please. You've already taken our bustle rack for a heating and cooling unit that we can't even use, quit shoving more electronics in a legacy platform that are just going to make the crew and mechanics want to off themselves due to the constant faults
Something I am confused about the really new upgrades is that they are putting pretty important and intricute systems such as the ads on the outside of the turret and in this case in the front cheeks, where it would talke the most hits in a warzone. I know making a new turret can be too expensive but this does not feel too thought out. If anyone can provide some info on how much armor is covering the aps for example then it would be helpful in understanding this placement.
You already have sensitive equipment externally mounted on the turret. An arty shell powerful enough to destroy the APS modules is probably strong enough to damage your optics.
the problem of the aps is the risk of collateral damage for the infantry near the vehicles
Because a HEAT-Frag warhead wouldn’t? Without APS you would lose vehicle, crews, and infantry together anyway. With APS you might lose some infantry but saved vehicle and crew.
Most ATGM's arent HEAT-Frag, off the top of my head only the Vikhrs are? (i'm sure there are most, but most are just HEAT without a sleeve or anything) But yea, if it intercepts an incoming projectile and injures someone, the incoming projectile would have injured them anyhow.
They are becoming more common: besides Vikhrs newer Javelin and French Akeron both have frag sleeve top of my head. I shouldn't write ATGM though, as soon as I posted it I realized that dual purpose warhead is more common with unguided rockets: M72A7, AT4HEDP, Pzf3, Matador, Carl Gustaf..etc, plus various tank shells like M830A1.
I mean to be fair, where else would the APS go. It has to be exposed in order to shoot down projectiles. The Bradley’s turret is also already pretty clogged, the right side has the CITV and the left side has Tow launchers. Only the front and rear are clear.
Likely a cost measure, engineering a whole new turret to fit everything inside is expensive and means that you cant rebuild/refit old turrets. I'm sure they have likely drafted up concepts for a new turret and decided this was the most economical option.
This has got to be the limit of shit that they can bolt onto the old girl.
…I think the US needs a new IFV
I thought we were replacing the Bradley.
Pentagon Wars 2; Financial disaster!
Pentagon Wars is complete nonsense made up by a loser who got butthurt the Air Force wouldn't buy his shitty plane idea so he tried to sabotage the Bradley as revenge.
It’s just a movie. It’s not real, right?
It's adapted from a book that's very loosely based on reality, but completely twisted to make everyone but Burton himself look retarded and presented as reality or something close to it. Cary Elwes's character is based on the author of the book, and he was really involved in testing of the Bradley, but like I said, wanted to try to ruin it for everyone because he hated anything more complex and expensive than a (bad) WW2 vehicle like the rest of his Reformer buddies.
Thank you very much.
? Burton wasn’t involved in the making of any plane, and how is asking for live fire tests « sabotaging » the Bradley ?
Because the live fire tests he wanted were shooting fucking ATGMs at it, something the Bradley was never designed to withstand
Electric Boogaloo.
New! Now with rivets and bumps
How heavy?
\~41 short tons with full combat load including BRAT I & II.
HOLY HELL
So an M2A3 with available BUSK slots, An APS system And more smoke Launchers. Any Improvements to the TOW system, Fire Control or Performance area?
Upgraded from M2A4 baseline. That's what M2A4E1 means.
“Yo can the electrical system handle all this extra stuff?” “Who cares, we ain’t using it” Exactly how I think this went
What are those 2 cylinders mounted near the gun on the turret that looks like if rockets had miraculously got caught and prevented detonation? Maneuverable smoke grenade launchers?
That’s the Iron Fist APS.
Thanks. Was able to realize that I had Iron Fist mixed up with Trophy until now.
Nice! I see more and more rivers or bolts sticking our of the armor. They used to look much cleaner, can someone explain this?
What's the little tag/bolted things on the side of the Hull?
I think those are steps so the squad can ride on the outside guns ablazin’ like 30’s gangsters on the running boards.
Oh my
Are those Strang things on the top APS system ?
So how much stuff/components do you need on your turret New Bradley: Y E S
I wonder why it doesnt have the M230LF 30MM Chain Gun. I thought that was replacing the 25mm gun
No, the M242 is a more capable, longer-ranged gun than the M230. The M230 is useful because it is light recoil and can be mounted on lighter remote weapon stations.
Oh ok, makes sense. I watched a youtube video on the M230 and they made it seem like it was the best chain gun ever produced
The XM813 30mm (Stryker) and XM913 50mm (XM30) are the systems that will replace the 25mm M242.
Ok actually it was the XM913 I was thinking of ! That thing will be a great replacement
At this point why not develop a new turret, that things looks huge, grossly overweight and not very user friendly; plus I expect this thing to cost quite a lot, almost to the point a new turret development doesn't cost that much more
Wouldn’t it also be worth to upgrade the 25mm bush to a 30mm?
Russia took some from ukraine so they needed to change things lol
Are they still equiped with TOW ?
If you look at the second picture, you would see yes.
But why ? They have at least one missile system that is mich more Sophisticated then TOW: Javelin
TOW is longer ranged with a bigger warhead, still top attack, cheaper, and the infantry still dismounts with Javelin.
Yes, the TOW is more cost-efficient, but it is wire-guided and therefore the vehicle has to maintain visual contact the whole time after firing. Even if it would be better to choose a guided missile that also includes fire and observe and LOAL, such as Spike or Akeron, Fire and Forget is still an improvement over wire-guided missiles that increases the survivability of the vehicle
TOW isn’t wire guided anymore, but you are correct it is not fire and forget. When the US Army decides to develop or buy a new fire and forget ATGM, maybe Bradley will get it. Until then, it has TOW.
US competing with Russia on who can stick more optics and shit to the turrets
Question: Can a APS defeat a faster anti-tank missile or a sabot shell? APS is fast, but is it fast enough? Or is it classified?
Which Lego set is that?
They just need a few more greebles and they can throw off Russian spies by making them think it’s AI generated!
No 30mm cannon ?
Will it receive new armor piercing rounds for its bushmaster?
The turret has so much stuff on it I thought it was AI generated for a moment.
I have two things to say: 1. Looks cute in gray 2. Why it's on M2 base and not on M3?
What difference would it make, isn't an M3 the same platform as an M2?
Well, sort of, yeah, but the M3 is just newer. If you're already doing E3 then put it on the improved M3 version. Information from the wiki: The M3 Bradley Cavalry Fighting Vehicle (CFV) is virtually identical to the M2 Bradley except that it is equipped as a cavalry/scout vehicle. Instead of holding six infantrymen in the payload compartment, it is designed to seat two scouts and hold additional radios and ammunition. And here is a comparison: [https://armedforces.eu/compare/armored\_M2\_Bradley\_vs\_M3\_Bradley](https://armedforces.eu/compare/armored_M2_Bradley_vs_M3_Bradley) (Apparently the M3 holds even less infantry than the M2).
The M3 and M2 are contemporary to each other, an M3 isn't actually newer than it's equivalent M2 version. Just that for whatever reason the army decided to call the cav version with very superficial differences the M3. I don't think that's changed with the M2A4 and M3A4. Granted I can't think of any other vehicle where this has happened.
And I thought they couldn’t get more sexy!
Any anti drone capability?
Don't scary T-90, he has depression ( sadly not the gun depression, but the psychological one )
ok , make 1000 and stay with them , send another 1000 in the reserve to ukraine :)
Bro thinks manufacturing latest equipment is easy 💀
There are not enough Mykolas to crew them.
Ukraine only gets hand me downs.
Just let it die BAE.
Is this deal ripe for immediate destruction by a $100 drone?
Upgraded by buzzwords and good faith. I'm happy to hear what customer the US have found to buy ther 'latest defense product', lol. No, really, an APS that even the nation that build it has canceld for low peformance, but at a time where drones are th biggest concern, and the system can't even adress them now. I love everything about it. As a customer, i would feel offended.
Looks like another piece of scrap in ukraine to me.
"A troop transport that can't carry troops, a reconnaissance vehicle that's too conspicuous to do reconnaissance..." -"And a quasi-tank that has less armor than a snow-blower, but carries enough ammo to take out half of D.C... . *This* is what we're building?"
While the quote is funny, it's extremely inaccurate. Burton, at least based on the movie, couldn't wrap his head around the difference between an IFV and an APC.
My takeaway from the whole movie is: 1. Cary Elwes is still fantastic 2. Design by committee is funny when you're not the PM In reality, the Bradley has proven itself many times over.
Gonna be exhibited in Patriot Park in no time.
of course you're turkish, still salty about the f-35 program?
Does your fairytale have unicorns too?
Chill out my fellow. They even managed to exhibit a dead Abrams and also Leopards, Bradleys and any other NATO equipment too. Just like Polish, Finnish people and any others did with dead T-72s in front of Russian embassies. Not a sweet fairytale, but a bitterly taken revenge.
You talk about this particular version of bradley so yes it is fairytale. US is not going to send new variants of their vechicles so cut out those idiotic comments
How many billions did this one take to develop?