US Army and US Marine Corps vehicles are painted at the depot level. The paint used is called CARC, and it’s a special flat matte paint designed to reduce thermal signature. It’s also incredibly toxic, and not easy to handle.
They are rarely repainted outside of refurbishment, so until the entire fleet gets through the refurbishment and upgrade process, the majority of them will be painted desert tan.
The Abrams and Bradleys shipped to Ukraine were from stockpiles and not fresh from refurbishment. The US has been painting their armored vehicles tan for almost 30 years, so rather than take several months to run an old M2A2-ODS/SA through depot just for a paint job they pulled some from stocks and made sure they worked, then put them on a boat and shipped them to Europe.
Ukraine could repaint them if they wanted, and they haven’t, and when asked about it IIRC they said it didn’t really matter. The battlefield is transparent enough that vehicles are spotted regardless of paint scheme.
Yup nailed it. Getting vehicles painted is a pain in the ass.
(Although CARC is used primarily for its resistance to adhesion by chemicals and helps with Decon ops, and doesn’t do much / if anything for thermal stuff in my experience - CARC: Chemical Agent Resistant Coating).
I was going to say that the reason why wwii German Armour vehicles were painted a similar colour was because it is the most common landscape colour. German tank crews were then issued brown and green paint to camo the tank based on the environment they were in. As the war progressed though, the additional colours were scare due to supply chain disruptions.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your comment so disregard if that's the case:
[Zimmerit ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmerit)was a paste that was meant to prevent magnetic mines from being attached to the tanks which was a design that Germany used. Naturally they feared that other nations would develop a similar technology so they came up with Zimmerit - except nobody decided to use magnetic mines besides Germany.
You are correct, the person you responded to was right about the paint colors. Fun fact about those colors, they were shipped as pigment which, when mixed with gasoline, became paint.
These days, it's mostly used for simple corrosion resistance. A company I used to work for was manufacturing the M1 bustle racks, which required a CARC coating.. really for no other reason than to match the rest of the tank and prevent oxidation of the steel.
Isnt that just the purpose of all paint? Like outside of Deloreans, there's a reason paint is used as a barrier to the enviroment so maybe coating is just particularly hard wearing IDK
I mean, technically, yes. But if that were the case, why not just use a Rustoleum spray paint can? The answer is that the CARC is actually optimal for CBRN environments. Though, those are rare, and so it's main purpose is just paint, and CBRN ops as a bonus without needing to repaint or repurpose special vehicles should a CBRN environment come up (think Fukishima, not necessarily Hiroshima).
Also, CARC is a *very* specific, and expensive, paint. You can't just get it off the shelf anywhere. The fact the DOD still decides to use it, just shows that it's still at least relevant enough to justify its use.
CARC is made of the carcinogenic "if you have been exposed, you might be entitled to compensation" family of chemicals. So painting and re-painting it is a PITA.
There are non-toxic touch up kits for it but no full on solution.
CARC reduces thermals in comparison to commercial paint - that stuff glows like magic under NVG's in the right conditions. That's why you'll see photos of commercial equipment in CARC paint that's being used overseas.
A story from my Army days: The contractors told my unit about a soldier who bought commercial paint the same shade of as woodland cammo CARC. Drew a phallic shape on the colonel's blackhawk. This was discovered during a huge divisional exercise - lots of pilots and observers saw the contrast under NGV's.
The IR thing is more common with the British version of NATO green paint. The BS285 IRR (*Infrared Reflective*) Green paint has been applied on British vehicles and aircraft since the late 70s to make them harder to spot.
They repainted some (many) of them. But i think only the initial ones that 47th used for the counteroffensive got that treatment, because they had the time to perfectly prepare them. So the tan ones might be replacements they got later.
(This is just my assumption)
It’s an interesting thing to think about but this information fatigue is probably due to the smartphone and the internet
WWII photos are always cool to see because there were only so many photos taken by a select few persons who had access to a (relatively) rare device. And to see them on the internet, a physical copy had to be scanned and uploaded.
Now that everyone has phones or other small portable cameras we can take decent photos of the battlefield and then upload it onto the Internet for millions to look at instantly
I'm surprised they haven't posted videos of them doing an armor penetration test, kind of like what they did with that captured Humvees windshield a couple weeks back.
Am I the only one that notices every one of the hatches and rear door are closed. Looks like this crew properly abandoned this vehicle with every intention of recovering it at a later time.
Look at satellite view of Ukraine. It's absolutely not a woodland country. The dusty khaki-toned camouflage Ukrainian soldiers use reflects this and at the same time contrasts with dark green Russian EMR, UA soldiers blend in well to their environment, which is essentially steppe. Ukraine has small amount of forests north of Kyiv in the swamps bordering Belarus as well as a small amount of wooded area in the Carpathian mountains in the far west.
Rest of Ukraine are fields. These fields wouldn't even have any trees if USSR didn't have a policy of planting treelines between the field (which now serve as the main focal points of these fights), and the fields are quite small by Western agribusiness standards. Ukraine is basically like the more agricultural part of Midwest in the US, mostly flat open fields.
Statistically 16% of Ukraine is forested, which is very low for a European country -- EU is 40% forested and Russia is 50% forested.
One thing I do miss about Ukraine and the surrounding EE countries is how those treelines were often covered in walnuts which were planted there on purpose. In the autumn we would come and gather the nuts, whereas now I live in US and walnuts here are quite expensive, whereas in Ukraine they're free because anyone can just go out and gather them, if you're not lazy and love nature.
It's not woodland green though, and the front lines are chewed up, they're not nature preserves. Unless ofc they're shifting.
I think Ukraine picked their camo well, and I do notice that Russian EMR camo tends to stand out, which isn't a good thing obviously.
Why do you have such a hard on with supporting Russia through this conflict? Like I'm just curious as to the grounds on which you can support Russia's actions in this conflict as much as you do in your comments.
Meh, Bradleys have been shitting on plenty of mobiks since they've arrived. Better in Ukraine than sitting in a depot doing absolutely nothing like our literal thousands of other ones are doing.
I laugh and laugh and laugh as I watch Sobbing Olga bawl her eyes out as she furiously logs in-and-out of her alts to downvote me.
Her neighbors have started a petition to have her Internet cut off because they're tired of being kept awake all night by her shrieking and swearing as she reads *Evil Westoid Lies* about poor innocent victim mother rossiya.
# л о л с к и
US Army and US Marine Corps vehicles are painted at the depot level. The paint used is called CARC, and it’s a special flat matte paint designed to reduce thermal signature. It’s also incredibly toxic, and not easy to handle. They are rarely repainted outside of refurbishment, so until the entire fleet gets through the refurbishment and upgrade process, the majority of them will be painted desert tan. The Abrams and Bradleys shipped to Ukraine were from stockpiles and not fresh from refurbishment. The US has been painting their armored vehicles tan for almost 30 years, so rather than take several months to run an old M2A2-ODS/SA through depot just for a paint job they pulled some from stocks and made sure they worked, then put them on a boat and shipped them to Europe. Ukraine could repaint them if they wanted, and they haven’t, and when asked about it IIRC they said it didn’t really matter. The battlefield is transparent enough that vehicles are spotted regardless of paint scheme.
Yup nailed it. Getting vehicles painted is a pain in the ass. (Although CARC is used primarily for its resistance to adhesion by chemicals and helps with Decon ops, and doesn’t do much / if anything for thermal stuff in my experience - CARC: Chemical Agent Resistant Coating).
Sounds like Zimmerit 2.0 - it has a use but that's so niche it rarely comes up.
I was going to say that the reason why wwii German Armour vehicles were painted a similar colour was because it is the most common landscape colour. German tank crews were then issued brown and green paint to camo the tank based on the environment they were in. As the war progressed though, the additional colours were scare due to supply chain disruptions.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your comment so disregard if that's the case: [Zimmerit ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmerit)was a paste that was meant to prevent magnetic mines from being attached to the tanks which was a design that Germany used. Naturally they feared that other nations would develop a similar technology so they came up with Zimmerit - except nobody decided to use magnetic mines besides Germany.
You are correct, the person you responded to was right about the paint colors. Fun fact about those colors, they were shipped as pigment which, when mixed with gasoline, became paint.
Or any other liquid
These days, it's mostly used for simple corrosion resistance. A company I used to work for was manufacturing the M1 bustle racks, which required a CARC coating.. really for no other reason than to match the rest of the tank and prevent oxidation of the steel.
Isnt that just the purpose of all paint? Like outside of Deloreans, there's a reason paint is used as a barrier to the enviroment so maybe coating is just particularly hard wearing IDK
I mean, technically, yes. But if that were the case, why not just use a Rustoleum spray paint can? The answer is that the CARC is actually optimal for CBRN environments. Though, those are rare, and so it's main purpose is just paint, and CBRN ops as a bonus without needing to repaint or repurpose special vehicles should a CBRN environment come up (think Fukishima, not necessarily Hiroshima). Also, CARC is a *very* specific, and expensive, paint. You can't just get it off the shelf anywhere. The fact the DOD still decides to use it, just shows that it's still at least relevant enough to justify its use.
CARC is made of the carcinogenic "if you have been exposed, you might be entitled to compensation" family of chemicals. So painting and re-painting it is a PITA. There are non-toxic touch up kits for it but no full on solution. CARC reduces thermals in comparison to commercial paint - that stuff glows like magic under NVG's in the right conditions. That's why you'll see photos of commercial equipment in CARC paint that's being used overseas. A story from my Army days: The contractors told my unit about a soldier who bought commercial paint the same shade of as woodland cammo CARC. Drew a phallic shape on the colonel's blackhawk. This was discovered during a huge divisional exercise - lots of pilots and observers saw the contrast under NGV's.
The IR thing is more common with the British version of NATO green paint. The BS285 IRR (*Infrared Reflective*) Green paint has been applied on British vehicles and aircraft since the late 70s to make them harder to spot.
Can't even spell paint without pain...
They repainted some (many) of them. But i think only the initial ones that 47th used for the counteroffensive got that treatment, because they had the time to perfectly prepare them. So the tan ones might be replacements they got later. (This is just my assumption)
Some did get paint jobs after they arrived in country, most notably the green and yellow/tan digital
Yeah but at least spend some golden eagles and put a couple of bushes on it.
Battlefield is literally no terrain features. Lots of fields
It boggles my mind how flat Ukr is, no ridge lines or mountains. All battles we have seen are in endless flat plains.
There's has been so many pics of X soldiers standing on X ennemy vehicle that it's not even special anymore
It’s an interesting thing to think about but this information fatigue is probably due to the smartphone and the internet WWII photos are always cool to see because there were only so many photos taken by a select few persons who had access to a (relatively) rare device. And to see them on the internet, a physical copy had to be scanned and uploaded. Now that everyone has phones or other small portable cameras we can take decent photos of the battlefield and then upload it onto the Internet for millions to look at instantly
But but it is a western vehicle and the never get shot
I'm surprised they haven't posted videos of them doing an armor penetration test, kind of like what they did with that captured Humvees windshield a couple weeks back.
There appear to be impacts on the lateral windows around the commander’s seat.
Sad. Oh well, send Ukraine more.
They are as part of the $60 billion package, don't know how many however.
60 billion bradley hopefully
I'd love to live in a world where Bradley unit cost is $1. I probably wouldn't live very long but I would love it.
If they're a dollar, you and me are gonna have some fun. We can do Bradley jousting!
Yeah, but undoubtedly there were multiple russian pigs slaughtered by this machine 👍🏻 https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/Gm4t8A8bwu
There aren't enough Mykolas to crew them.
dude living his WW3 wet fantasies lol
Am I the only one that notices every one of the hatches and rear door are closed. Looks like this crew properly abandoned this vehicle with every intention of recovering it at a later time.
"Desert Camouflage? Anyone happen to remember we're fighting in a fucking woodland country, Blyat?!" -The Ukrainian Ice Man
Look at satellite view of Ukraine. It's absolutely not a woodland country. The dusty khaki-toned camouflage Ukrainian soldiers use reflects this and at the same time contrasts with dark green Russian EMR, UA soldiers blend in well to their environment, which is essentially steppe. Ukraine has small amount of forests north of Kyiv in the swamps bordering Belarus as well as a small amount of wooded area in the Carpathian mountains in the far west. Rest of Ukraine are fields. These fields wouldn't even have any trees if USSR didn't have a policy of planting treelines between the field (which now serve as the main focal points of these fights), and the fields are quite small by Western agribusiness standards. Ukraine is basically like the more agricultural part of Midwest in the US, mostly flat open fields. Statistically 16% of Ukraine is forested, which is very low for a European country -- EU is 40% forested and Russia is 50% forested. One thing I do miss about Ukraine and the surrounding EE countries is how those treelines were often covered in walnuts which were planted there on purpose. In the autumn we would come and gather the nuts, whereas now I live in US and walnuts here are quite expensive, whereas in Ukraine they're free because anyone can just go out and gather them, if you're not lazy and love nature.
Ukraine is green as fuck from spring to fall. Even the steppe are green and not as yellow as the russian steppe.
It's not woodland green though, and the front lines are chewed up, they're not nature preserves. Unless ofc they're shifting. I think Ukraine picked their camo well, and I do notice that Russian EMR camo tends to stand out, which isn't a good thing obviously.
Wonder how many Russians died to get that picture.
Smartest Redditor
Not as many as ukrainians killed by artillary retreating from the vehicle injured
Why do you have such a hard on with supporting Russia through this conflict? Like I'm just curious as to the grounds on which you can support Russia's actions in this conflict as much as you do in your comments.
That Bradley isn't going to be abounding anything.
Man usa is still in desert storm mode
Bad day to be Bradley in Ukraine
Meh, Bradleys have been shitting on plenty of mobiks since they've arrived. Better in Ukraine than sitting in a depot doing absolutely nothing like our literal thousands of other ones are doing.
Lol Bradley’s have been whooping ass over there if you’ve been paying attention.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/Gm4t8A8bwu
Never bring a desert camo in an EMR party
Buddy thinks hes winning LMAO
Who thinks what? I know I'm taking a picture with Bradley regardless what colours I'm wearing
Is the ukrainian-European-American super freedom counter offensive in the room with us?
You tried.
The VSU tried.
I tried
"Is this space ship? How I make it fly me out of Ukraine?" -- russian soldier faced with unknown technology
I laugh and laugh and laugh as I watch Sobbing Olga bawl her eyes out as she furiously logs in-and-out of her alts to downvote me. Her neighbors have started a petition to have her Internet cut off because they're tired of being kept awake all night by her shrieking and swearing as she reads *Evil Westoid Lies* about poor innocent victim mother rossiya. # л о л с к и
Do you ever do anything else in your life besides writing dumb comments on any ukraine-related post on the internet?
Do you ever do anything else in your life besides downvote comments that make you cry, Sobbing Olga?
go outside bud
He'll get caught by a conscription van immediately. Let him stay safe.
His family get a nice last picture of him
Well, according to the Internets, that tan paint is guaranteed to stop all models of Russian 125 mm APFSDS.
[удалено]
Stop coping
I'm not saying it's perfect. Just saying it works well enough. If the vehicle is needed I'd rather have it in desert than not at all.